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Indictment Excitement (with Chris Christie!) · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. Dan has
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: timed his vacation perfectly and to this slow news week.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: So I am very lucky to be joined by Mehdi Hassan,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: host of The Mehdi Hassan Show on MSNBC and Peacock.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Mehdi, welcome back.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: John, thanks for having me back. I just finished taping
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: my own show. I'm here in the D.C. Bureau. Excited
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: to be with you.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Excited to have you. We have a big show today.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: In a first for us, the Republican primary comes to
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America. John Lovett and Chris Christie went into
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: a New York City podcast studio yesterday and only one
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: of them came out. You can hear that Very lively
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: conversation at the end of today's episode. For that, Mehdi
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and I are going to talk about Ron DeSantis firing
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: a third of his campaign staff, including a speechwriter who
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: shared some Nazi propaganda online, and what today's good economic
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: news means for Joe Biden's political prospects. But first, Republicans
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: are responding to Trump's multiple indictments by threatening to impeach
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden based on various investigations into right-wing conspiracies that
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: have yet to uncover any actual evidence. They got a
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: three-year-old document where some Ukrainian businesswoman allegedly told an FBI
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: informant that Biden was involved in a bribery scheme, a
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: claim that Donald Trump's Justice Department already looked into and
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: found nothing worth investigating. And they've got a couple IRS
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: agents who've testified that Joe Biden's Justice Department interfered in
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: the investigation into Hunter Biden, a claim that the Trump-appointed U.S.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: attorney in charge of the investigation has repeatedly denied and
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: in fact announced in court yesterday that that he may
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: bring additional charges against Biden's son. Naturally, this led to
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: the Speaker of the House floating an impeachment inquiry on
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Sean Hannity's show.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: Let's listen.
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: If you're sitting in our position today, we would know
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: none of this if Republicans had not taken the majority.
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: We've only followed where the information has taken us. This
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: is rising to the level of impeachment inquiry, which provides
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: Congress the strongest power to get the rest of the
• 2:22
  Speaker 5: knowledge and information needed. Because this president has also used
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: something we have not seen since Richard Nixon. Used the
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: weaponization of government to benefit his family and deny Congress
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: the ability to have the oversight.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: And then the next day, McCarthy maybe kind of walked
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: it back.
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: Okay, now you all understand because you've worked here for
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: a long time.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: You understand what impeachment inquiry is.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: It's not impeachment.
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: It allows Congress to investigate by giving Congress the full
• 2:54
  Speaker 5: power to get the information they need.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: It's the way people should go about investigating.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: All right, Mehdi.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: So up until now, McCarthy hasn't gone along with the
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: kooks in his caucus who want to impeach Biden. Why
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: do you think he seems to be changing his mind?
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: I think he said, do we know he's changing his mind?
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, as you said, you just played those clips.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: He's playing, you know, he chooses his words as carefully
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: as he can for a speaker who has no power. Remember, John,
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: this is a guy who came in, what, 15th ballot?
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: He won 15th time round. If at first you don't succeed,
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: try 14 more times. He got the job. We all
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: know he came in as the weakest speaker ever. I'm reminded, John,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: do you remember during Paul Ryan's speakership, someone amended the
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Wikipedia page for invertebrates in Paul Ryan's photo? I just
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: feel like stick in McCarthy. He's been way more spineless
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: than Ryan ever was from January the 6th to Marjorie
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: Taylor Greene, QAnon, white supremacy, and now impeachment. And of course,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: Marjorie Taylor Greene, you and I know, is the real
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: power in the House GOP caucus. He's been wanting to
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: impeach Biden from day one. In fact, I think she
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: brought in articles of impeachment within the first week of
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: his presidency. So it doesn't surprise me. I think he'll
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: keep doing this dance where he's for it. Maybe he's
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: not for it. Maybe he tries to speak out, you know,
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: speak out of both sides of his mouth. That's Kevin McCarthy. But,
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: you know, his caucus are his caucus. They're nuts. He
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: can't control them. This was inevitable.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I guess we know we
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: know his comments were intentional. because he followed it up
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: with a written statement and sent a fundraising text to
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: his list saying like, Biden impeachment inquiry, donate here, which
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: is just wild.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: If you notice his very specific use of impeachment inquiry,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: it's just an inquiry to find the facts because Republicans
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: love finding facts. But what's interesting is when the Democrats,
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: of course, did the two impeachments and inquiries and committees
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: and votes for Donald Trump, I'm old enough to remember
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Kevin McCarthy was one of those people who said, this
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: will divide the country. This is partisan. We shouldn't be
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: inflaming tensions. Democrats, he said, have been wanting to impeach
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump since the day Trump became president. It was
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: all projection, as usual, because it's exactly what Republicans do.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: MTG has wanted to impeach Biden from day one. This is,
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: quote unquote, dividing the nation further. And of course, if
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: you don't like impeaching Donald Trump for an actual phone
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: call in which we have a transcript of him extorting
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: a foreign leader, if you don't like impeaching Donald Trump
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: for trying to get you all killed inside your government building,
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: But you are okay with impeaching Joe Biden over this,
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: as you say, nonsense form, unverified allegations where your star
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: witness turns out to be an indicted, accused Chinese arms dealer, whatever.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: I can't even keep track of what that guy is
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: being accused of.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: It is hard to keep track of this one. And
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I was like listening to McCarthy's press conference yesterday and
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: he's like, Romania gets involved and weird bribe things and
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: audio tapes that no one has. They describe it as like,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: The Republicans are in an investigation of whether there's enough
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: evidence to launch an inquiry with no timeline. So they've
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: got an investigation into whether they should open an inquiry.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: into possible impeachment proceedings. That's how far down the road
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: we are because they don't have anything.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: They don't have anything. But meanwhile, while they say all
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: that officially or to Capitol Hill reporters in the hallway,
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: to sound very, very serious, they go on Fox and
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: Newsmax and say, Joe Biden's a criminal. Joe Biden bribed people,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: just make completely wild, unsubstantiated claims. So it doesn't match.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: But as I say, it's inevitable. What I would say, though,
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: is while we can laugh at the Republicans and laugh
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: at Kevin McCarthy and the White House is kind of
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: mocking conspiracy theorists. Impeaching Joe Biden will hurt Joe Biden.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: I want to be consistent on this. I was one
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: of those people who, when Democrats said, oh, if we
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: impeach Donald Trump, it'll hurt us. I was one of
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: those people who said, no, it won't, actually. It'll hurt
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: the president. And I'm vindicated. I stand vindicated. Today, we
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: remember Donald Trump as a twice-impeached president for a reason.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: But impeachments do hurt presidents. And Bill Clinton, people think,
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: conventional wisdom says Republicans got hurt impeaching Bill Clinton. Not true.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Within 18 months of Bill Clinton not being convicted in
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: the Senate, the Republicans have won the White House, the Senate,
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: and the House. So let's be very serious about this
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: for a moment. An impeachment inquiry into Joe Biden would
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: certainly hurt Joe Biden going into 2024. Enough people would
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: just hear the words bribery, bribery, bribery. And that's why
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: they're doing this, right? They want both candidates... in 2024
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: to be accused of corruption, to have been impeached, because
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: that's the Republican way, right? It's not vote for my
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: guy over your guy's. Don't believe anyone, because that's how
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: nihilism and fascism grows.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's absolutely right that this is
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: their motivation for doing it. Republicans clearly aren't happy with
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: the political environment right now. I think they're starting to
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: realize a lot of these House members that they're going
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: to end up with a broadly unpopular criminal defendant as
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: their nominee. They see the economy improving, crime falling, border
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: crossings going down. What can unite them is their hatred
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: for the other side. So, you know, the hope is
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: to impeach Joe Biden, drag down his approval rating so
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: it's low enough to beat him. I also think that,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: you know, there are low information voters. who happen to
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: be a lot of swing voters who don't pay close
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: attention to the news. They don't follow the news as
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: closely as junkies like you and I. And if they
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: hear that Joe Biden was impeached and Donald Trump was impeached,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: then they might say, yeah, both candidates are corrupt. And
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: so that's that. I don't know how impeachment will go
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: politically for a lot of the rest of the electorate. And,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: you know, like, I don't know if Donald Trump was
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: hurt politically enough by his first impeachment. Like I certainly
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: hoped he would be. I don't know that his political
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: standing changed that much. I think maybe in the second impeachment,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: A little bit, but I don't know.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: Here's where Trump's different, of course, John. The reason why
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: I don't think the first impeachment hit home is because
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: you could have impeached him for a dozen things, and
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: they chose one of the most complicated foreign-related stories to do.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: People like me would have impeached him for obstruction of
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: justice over Mueller much earlier, or for emoluments, or stuff
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: that people understand. He's making money in the White House,
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: but he shouldn't. That's the one they decided to go
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: on because Democrats thought, this will be the NatSec one.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: That's why Pelosi and co. decided to belatedly, after dragging
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: their feet, impeach him. So you're right in that sense.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: But I think it's very different with Biden. With Biden,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: they've struggled to come up with a narrative that sticks
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: to Biden. Remember in 2020, they tried he's old and demented.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: That didn't work. They tried that he's a kind of
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: crazy left-wing communist. That didn't work. And so they've never
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: really been able to gin up the hate against Biden
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: that they did against Hillary, that they did against Barack Obama,
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: that they did against Bill Clinton. So this now they
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: think maybe is sticking, the bribery, the big guy. I mean,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: the one way it will definitely hurt them in the
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: campaigns is it's a very terminally online story. Most average
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: voters don't know what the big guy means. I've never
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: heard of some of the references that these people make.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: So I don't know whether they'll help the House GOP,
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: but I do think it will help them in a
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: presidential race, even as you say, even if it's at
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: the margins. And by the way, before anyone says that
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: you and I are being cynical in making this accusation,
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: Kevin McCarthy, the man who's currently speaker, is also the
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: guy who went on live television and to the consternation
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: of his fellow GOP colleagues said, we're going off to
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: Benghazi on Hillary and look at her poll ratings. So
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: he's got.
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: And look, I think All we know is some of
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: the Republicans, the House Republicans who are sitting in districts
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: that Joe Biden won are uncomfortable at this moment going
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: forward with impeachment because they don't think it will help
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: them that much. And if and we don't know what
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: the effect will be. But if I was the White
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: House and I think Democrats should be making the argument
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: that like, hey, these people in the House. You gave
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: them one House of Congress to control. And what they
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: have done is not focus on any of the issues
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: you care about. All they have focused on is a fake,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: phony impeachment of Joe Biden for nothing. And I don't
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: know that swing voters who pay a little more attention
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: to the news will like that. But at the very least,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: it's the argument I would make if I was in
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: the White House. I'd have Joe Biden out there, you know,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: talking about things that people care about.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: And.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: The impeachment, you know, it could rally Democrats around Joe Biden.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: It could turn off some swing voters. I agree that like,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: you know, the Republican base and some low information voters
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: might say, oh, yeah, no, he's probably corrupt.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: So. I mean, look, we've got to be clear here
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: with the Pub Save audience. Whatever you think about Joe Biden,
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: his poll ratings are not good right now. They are
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: not where they should be. And in that scenario, an
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: impeachment of him may drive up core support amongst Democrats.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: As you say, it may lead to a rallying around
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: from the Democratic base, some of whom are disappointed in
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: Biden over certain issues. But it would also, as you say,
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: we don't know how it will play out with swing voters.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: So we can see.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: So on Tuesday's pod, I did say that we would
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: try to stop talking so much about Ron DeSantis' embarrassment
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: of a campaign, but he's left us no choice. On Tuesday,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the governor and his staff were in a car accident
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: where no one was injured, and that wasn't even close
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: to the worst part of his day. The campaign announced
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: it was firing a third of its staff, including a
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: speechwriter and former National Review writer named Nate Hockman, who
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: apparently created and then tweeted the video that shows DeSantis'
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: face on a Nazi symbol. And yesterday, DeSantis said that
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: he'd consider putting RFK Jr. in charge of the CDC.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: All right, I guess my first question is, like, why
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: the hell did Ron DeSantis hire a speechwriter who's into
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Nazi symbols?
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: Does the question answer itself there, John? I mean, let's
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: not forget, it's not like he came up with the
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: Nazi symbols after working for Ron DeSantis, and that was
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: the telltale sign. DeSantis was like, we had no idea. No, no,
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Nate Hockman had already been attacked for doing a Twitter
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: spaces with Nick Fuentes, remember him, a Holocaust denier, Trump
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Thanksgiving dinner guest, and Hockman said that Fuentes was better
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: for young conservatives than Ben Shapiro. And I'm no fan
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: of Ben Shapiro, but if you think Nick Fuentes is
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: better for young conservatives than Ben Shapiro, then maybe that's
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: your neo-Nazi alarm bell when you're hiring people. So he
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: already got a pass on that. He got hired by
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: the DeSantis team. New York Times gave this guy a
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: big op-ed. He was seen as the kind of face
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: of the new young right. The problem with the new
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: young right is lots is coming out about what they
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: say in private, and it's not so nice. He creates
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: this video, according to Axios. He then tries to pass
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: it off. By the way, it's not the first time
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: that the Sanders campaign, John, are accused of doing this.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: Last weekend, the Times, of course, reported that the homophobic
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: video they made where they bragged about the Sanders basically
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: wanted to erase trans people, that was also apparently reportedly
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: made in-house and then farmed out to make it look
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: like it was organic. So everything about the Sanders campaign
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: is so fake and desperate for authenticity and grassroots support,
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: which they just don't have. So, you know, watching the
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: DeSantis car crash is fascinating, John. It really is. And again,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: I don't want to sound like the I told you
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: so vindicated guy, but I was one of those people
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: six months, eight months ago saying, oh, yeah, bring DeSantis
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: on the national spotlight. Bring him out of his Florida
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: safe space. Let's see how well that glass jaw survives. And,
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: you know, he's 35 points behind Donald Trump.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: I know we are on like, you know, the fourth
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: or fifth news cycle about the DeSantis reboot. And he
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: just keeps stepping on rakes. I mean, The RFK Jr.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: thing was wild. And then, of course, afterwards, Mike Pence
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: hits him for suggesting that he might appoint RFK Jr.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: to the CDC because RFK Jr. is pro-choice. And so
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: that's what Mike Pence's problem was.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Of course. I had missed the Pence. Of course, Pence
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: comes in with that angle. I mean, for me, the
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: RFK thing was so interesting, John, because till now, DeSantis
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: has been playing footsie with the anti-vaxxers, right? He's kind
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: of anti-vax-like. He's anti-vax-adjacent. I'm not anti-vaccine. I'm just against mandates.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: I don't push the booster in my state. I investigate
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: the companies behind it, but I'm not anti-vax. But in
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: the interview that he does, where he says, RFK Jr., CDC, FDA,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: he explicitly says, On the medical stuff, I'm with him.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: I like all that stuff. So he basically outs himself
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: as an anti-vaxxer, in my view, in that interview. And
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: his opponent should really be throwing that at him. But
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: of course, that would be in a general. In a
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: Republican primary, being anti-vaxxed doesn't cost you anything. It actually
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: boosts you.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and to me, the whole episode shows just what
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: horrible political instincts Santas has, right?
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: And he's a pandera, John.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: He gets hit from the right on possibly floating someone
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: for an appointment online. who is pro-choice. And then he
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: gets hit from everyone normal for floating someone who's an anti-vax.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: So he just doesn't win with anyone, which is like
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: sort of the story of his campaign.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Like the slavery stuff, right? You've got the Florida educational
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: standards are out, right? The new African-American history standards, big
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: controversy over a few lines in there, including one that
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: suggests slaves benefited. It was of personal benefit because they
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: picked up skills. And DeSantis is asked about this. Now
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: he can run away from it and say, nothing to
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: do with me. Or he can say, I'm with it
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: 100% because I think it'll help appeal to some of
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: my white nationalist base. He can't decide. So he stands
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: at a press conference. He's like, nothing to do with me.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: It wasn't me. But they did get skills that they
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: could parlay into later life. First of all, who uses
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: the word parlay in everyday life? And number two, as
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: Chris Christie pointed out, what kind of leader are you
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: that when something happens in your state, your first response
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: is shaggy style. It wasn't me.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Well, and then it got worse yesterday because... Byron Donald,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: who is the only black Republican member of Congress from Florida,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: he tweeted and criticized the state's education standards. And it
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: was a pretty, you know... All he said was, it
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: needs to be changed. I don't think that was right, whatever.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: And DeSantis' campaign then attacks Byron Donalds and compares him
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: to Kamala Harris.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Calls him a supposed conservative, this hardcore Freedom Caucus member.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: First of all, John, we've got to stop and say,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Byron Donalds isn't just the only black Republican from Florida.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: He's part of a Florida House delegation, almost all of
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: whom have endorsed Donald Trump. What does that say about
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: the governor of Florida? But the Republicans in his own
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: state are backing Donald Trump over him. I think, who
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: was it? Was it Stubbe? Is that how you pronounce
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: his name? Greg Stubbe? The Republican House member who said
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: that when he fell off a roof, he was in
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: hospital and DeSantis never really called him and Trump called
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: him and charmed him. It was like, imagine being less
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: compassionate and less considerate of your fellow man than Donald J. Trump.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: But that's where DeSantis is, in Florida. On Byron Donalds,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: what's interesting about that is they're attacking this black Republican
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: who comes out against him. They're doubling down on the
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: slavery stuff. Jeremy Redfern, who's the deputy press secretary, one
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: of these terminally online dissenters trolls alongside Pouchot and Brian Griffin.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: Anyone who's spent any time on political Twitter knows these people.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: They're the dissenters people who just spend all their life
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: fighting with people on Twitter. He spent the last 24
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: hours just doubling down, defending everything to do with this curriculum. So,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: you know, then we wonder, why is DeSantis losing? Why
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: isn't he connected with ordinary people? Number one, he's got
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: a terminally online press team who just don't understand the
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: real world and hire people like Nate Hockman. And number two,
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: he's just an unlikable guy. Like I saw someone floating
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: the let DeSantis be DeSantis line, which I think every
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: political strategist does.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: At some point.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: Echoes the Bartlett line from the West Wing. And it's like,
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: let DeSantis be DeSantis. No, that's the last thing you
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: want to do. Because the more people see the real DeSantis,
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: the more they don't like him. The man is a anti-social,
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: you know, charmless, short-tempered, thin-skinned, charisma-free zone. Benjamin Nixon, the writer,
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: calls him the Borg of charisma. He's got the charisma
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: of a Borg for the Star Trek fans amongst you.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: Why would you want to see more of the real
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: Ron DeSantis?
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, their whole thing about, you know, we just got
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: to give him a mic and a crowd and we've
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: got to break down the barriers between Ron DeSantis and
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: the voters. It's like, I don't think the voters want
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: more Ron DeSantis close up. I think that they've seen
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: that and they're not liking it too much.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Have you seen.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Anything at all that would lead you to believe Ron
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: DeSantis can claw his way back and make this a
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: real race with Trump? Because I'm I'm cognizant of not
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: getting like caught up in the news cycle of the moment.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: But when I look at this, I just I have
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: not seen anything that makes me think this guy could
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: this guy could come back.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: No. And remember, in January, he was nearly neck and
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: neck with Trump in the polls. He came in as
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: this big star. He was hyped up by both conservative
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: and liberal media. And he was a few points behind
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: in some polls in some states. He was ahead of Trump.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: And it's all crashed and burned in the six months since.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: And I think there's two reasons for that. Number one
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: is what we just discussed. The more people see him,
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: the more they don't like him. He's not very good.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: He's got bad judgments. And number two, Donald Trump keeps
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: getting indicted. And every time he gets indicted, his approval
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: rating with the base goes up, not down. And the rivals,
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: not just the Sanders, all of them don't know what
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: to do with the indictment. They don't know how to
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: respond to these indictments. And over the next six months,
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: that's not going to change, right? Donald Trump's legal troubles
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: are only going to get worse. So he'll be more
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: of a marketer. to the base. And Rhonda Sanders, we're
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: going to see more and more of, and people are
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: going to like less and less of him. So I
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: don't see how it turns around. People talk about, well,
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: if Trump goes to prison, I don't see Trump going
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: to prison this side of November 2024 or ever. So
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: I just don't see how he comes back. This is
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: not 2016. This is not, you know, Trump against 16 people,
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: divided field. It's actually Trump with over 50% support and
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: a 35-point lead over second place Romney Sanders. That's pretty huge.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, on that note, I want to talk about
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: the rest of the field. Mitt Romney wrote an interesting
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: op-ed in the Wall Street Journal the other day where
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: he called on Republican donors to pressure presidential candidates to
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: withdraw from the primary by February 26th, which is after
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: the first four contests, if they're not in second place.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: That way someone can have a chance to face Trump
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: in a one-on-one race. What do you think about that proposal?
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Good idea?
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Plausible?
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: Would it even matter?
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: So I think, and Benji Sarlin writing for Semaphore today
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: makes this point as well, that it's kind of out
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: of date already. This is not 2016. This is not
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: 16 candidates where Donald Trump is the kind of outsider
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: who's got 30, 40% of the vote. And if you
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: take all the other 16, well, then they could beat him.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: Let Ted Cruz go one-on-one against him much earlier on
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: in the race. We've already kind of, they already kind
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: of tried to coalesce around DeSantis. Fox did, and some
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: big Republican donors did. That hasn't worked, right? DeSantis is
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: now polling 35 points behind, I think, in the latest
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: 538 average. You put all of the rivals together, DeSantis,
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: Tim Scott, Vivek Ramaswamy, all of them together, Nikki Haley,
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Mike Pence, Chris Christie. I can't remember who the other
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: also-rans are polling at zero. They don't come anywhere close
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: to Trump's share of the vote. So this idea that
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: if you could just get behind one person, that can
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: stop Trump. I fear that ship may have sailed. Tim
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: Scott is now being talked about as the next guy
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: down to stop Trump. He's got a lot of money.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: He's liked by a lot of people. Obviously, he's black
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: in a party that's done very badly with minorities for
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: obvious reasons. but he's also a massive Trump supporter. He's
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: also a guy who completely backed Trump to the hilt
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: for four years. Is he going to be the guy
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: who takes down Donald Trump? I said this a while ago,
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: and I hate to be proven wrong. I wish I
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: was proved wrong, but I don't see how Donald Trump's
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: getting beaten by any of these people.
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: I don't either.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I think that the only possibility at the outset of
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump getting beaten in a primary is by a
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: candidate who was a lot like Trump, The whole DeSantis
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: dream of being Trump without the baggage, like that was
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: the correct goal. DeSantis clearly has plenty of baggage of
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: his own. Trump without the chaos, he's causing plenty of
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: chaos on his own. So he has not done that.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: But I do think that like that's the right sort
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: of area. But because look, the Republican electorate, first of all, it's,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: you know, probably two thirds non-college educated. And Trump is
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: just just dominating with those voters. And all these other
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: candidates are trying to get a piece of the college-educated
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: part of the Republican electorate who is at least willing
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: to look beyond Trump. And they're all trying to divide
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: it up. So if Tim Scott is doing great, does
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: great mean he goes from 8% to 13% or 14%?
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Like you said, Donald Trump's over 50 in a lot
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: of these, so that's still not close.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: Exactly. If Donald Trump's in the 30s, then this starts
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: to make sense. What are the coalitions? What are the
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: people who can pull out and back someone else? We're
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: not in that space. And the reason is, the reality...
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: that none of the other candidates know why they're running, right?
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: They just don't have a reason to run. Mike Pence,
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: what is his reason for running? Because I did great
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: in the Trump-Pence administration. All right, then back, Mike. Then back,
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump. Oh, wait, he almost got you killed. You know,
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: Tim Scott, as I said, Tim Scott running, you know,
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: I'm the guy who evangelicals love. Well, the evangelicals love
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: Trump more. And you're the guy who also defended Trump
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: for four years. Every time people said Trump's a racist,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: you were the guy who came out and said, no, no,
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: he's not. He criticized them over Charlottesville, but they never
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: went full on. Similarly, as you say, Ron DeSantis, Trump
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: without the baggage. I mean, nobody wants Trump without the baggage, apparently. Apparently,
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: the Republican electorate likes the baggage.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: That's why they show up. They show up for the baggage.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: They show up for the rallies for Ron DeSantis. So
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: who's left? Nikki Haley. What is your reason for running?
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: Nikki Haley, are you really just running for VP? So
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: if there's no real, if they don't know why they're
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: running and what their strategy for victory is, Then surprise, surprise,
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump just hoovers it up for a third time.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I also think it's funny that Mitt Romney, God bless him,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: thinks that a bunch of MAGA voters are going to
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: listen to like rich Republican donors or any kind of
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Republican establishment figure who's going to try to pressure these
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: candidates out and then say like, no, no, this is
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: the person now, right? Like that, if anything, will probably
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: backfire for that candidate that you have a bunch of
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: like rich billionaire Republican donors that Trump will call the
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: establishment and rhinos and whatever else. Suddenly you're telling you
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: you have to get behind Tim Scott or Nikki Haley
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: or whoever they decide after, if DeSantis doesn't make it.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: And I just think it's so funny, like that, it's
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: not going to work. You can, Mitt Romney's plan can
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: happen and it's still like, I don't get when people
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: in the Republican establishment are going to realize that they
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: just don't have any sway over their own base anymore.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: That's the key point, John. And I feel like emperor's
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: new clothes. We need to say this. I think the
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: liberal media has been complicit in this nonsense for too long.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: The way we push up Never Trumpers, the way we
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: kind of love sharing clips of Chris Christie, and I'm
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: looking forward to the Chris Christie interview, but the man
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: has A, no chance of winning, of course, and B,
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: he's lying about his party, right? This is the fundamental
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: problem with all these Republicans. They shouldn't be in that party.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: The party's gone. The base is gone. We don't like
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: saying this, John, because those of us who talk about politics,
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: we want to have solutions. We want to have some
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: vision for the future. The reality is done. It's finished.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: It's over. The GOP is gone. I've been saying this
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: for seven, eight years now. And if people still don't
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: believe it, I don't know what else to say. The
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: man is about to... get the nomination for the third
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: time after everything he put the country through for four years,
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: after the insurrection when Republicans found their spine for about
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: 36 hours, and yet he's going to win again, perhaps
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: bigger than last time, the nomination. So this party has got, look,
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: here's one poll number for you. There's a poll out
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: this week, I think it's a market poll, which shows
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: that 50% of Republicans told pollsters that they don't believe
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: there were any classified documents in Donald Trump's home. They
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: don't believe it. Donald Trump says there were classified documents.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: Trump's argument is not that there weren't. He says, I
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: have a right to have them. Trump voters, half of
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: them think he didn't even have them. You cannot have
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: a reasonable debate with people like this. I'm sorry, you can't.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I was looking into that. That same poll also says
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: that more Republican voters think that Joe Biden and Mike
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Pence refused to cooperate with the federal government in handing
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: back documents than Donald Trump.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Which is just like, they.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Know, they have seen the news. They just don't give
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: a shit.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: They're telling the police, we don't care. Yeah, it's all just,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: we need to, you know, it's all rationalized, whatever you
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: have to rationalize. And, you know, bless you, Mitt Romney,
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: bless you, Chris Christie.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Like, this is done.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: It's done. It's over. It's just, you're wasting your time.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Before we go, I wanted to ask you about Joe
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Biden's prospects. Here's a tweet from The Washington Post's Jeff
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Stein on Tuesday. A lot of econ things breaking Biden's
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: way of late. Inflation cooling. Labor market stays hot. Recession
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: calls downgraded. Inflation Reduction Act. CHIPS Act. Investments booming. Today's
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: big deal on UPS to avert summer strike. And then,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: of course, on top of all that, yesterday we learned
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: that consumer confidence hit its highest level in two years.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: And today we learned that last quarter's economic growth beat expectations.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: We've had a long running debate here about whether Biden
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: and the White House should be taking more credit for
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: all this or whether that would seem out of touch
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: to people who may still be struggling with inflation, which
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: is probably happening with a lot of working middle class
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: people across the country.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: What do you think about that?
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: I'm of the view that you've got nothing to lose
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: at this point. Biden's ratings are bad. People keep saying
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: the economy is bad. I just did a deep dive
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: on my show on Peacock, which is out this week,
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: on this exact subject. The economy is doing really, really well.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: All the things you mentioned from the Stein tweet, 3% inflation.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: unemployment at its lowest level since Neil Armstrong stepped on
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: the moon, growth, recession avoided, all these amazing manufacturing booming,
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: real wages up, even income inequality, the thing that we
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: on the left have banged on about for a while, falling.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: So all these good indicators, and yet people, not just Republicans,
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: but people across the board say, well, the economy ain't
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: so good. It's not doing so well. Now, part of
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: that is partisanship. Part of that is media coverage, Part
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: of it is real people still struggling with things like
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: child poverty and student debt, real issues. But Democrats need
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: to get better at messaging. I've said that for a
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: long time. And if you're not going to bang your
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: own drum, who is? Because I know that people like
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: to say, I'm an MSNBC host. I know people like
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: to say, MSNBC, Fox. No, Fox is a propaganda channel.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: Liberal media, quote unquote, may be liberal, quote unquote, but
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: it doesn't act as a propaganda channel in the same way.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: It's not out there pushing the administration's case. If anything,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: it's the opposite, right? There's a hat gap. There's journalists
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: going out of their way to be, well, you know,
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: it might be good figures, but what about this? And
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: And on my show, we went through all the times
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: that Trump got 200,000 new jobs and got praised for
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: it by the liberal media. And Biden got 200,000 jobs.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: It was like, well, disappointing 200,000 jobs. The same number
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: reported on differently. So there's a lot of issues going
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: on here. And I think, look, Biden cannot rely on
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: the media. He cannot rely on anyone else but himself.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: to go out and make the case. And if you say,
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: might it sound out of touch? Oh, well. People have
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: already started to make up their minds. We've just been
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: talking about swing voters. We've been talking about people living
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: in low information bubbles. You've got to go out and
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: make the case. People still think inflation is at a
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: record high because they heard that all of 2020. They
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: have no idea it's at 3%. To go back to
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: what you said at the start of this conversation, most
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: people are not news junkies like you and I. And
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: people don't just pull out their calculator and go, oh,
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: I'm better off, worse off. I will support this president,
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: not that president. That's not how it works, right? It's
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: about narratives. It's about how you feel. It's the mood
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: in the country. Biden is the guy who has to
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: lead on that. There's a reason it's called the bully pulpit.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: And he's got the facts on his side. It's not
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: like he has to go out and lie about it.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: But the point is, they do need to talk about
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: this stuff. Yeah.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: And I think and, you know, you see them doing that,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: especially over the last couple of months and all these
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: events that Biden's doing. And of course, it's difficult to
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: break through with an event about your accomplishments, as we know. Uh,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: and which is why he has to do it all
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: the time. But I do think that narrative that you
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: talk about has to just, it just has to include
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: a couple elements, right?
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: Which is one, you're right.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: The facts are on his side and he just has
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: to talk about all of the economic indicators that are
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: all now heading in the, in the, in the right direction.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: You know, we used a chart in 2012, uh, with
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: the Obama reelect about there's this famous jobs chart showing
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: all the jobs that, uh, were created over the last
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: four years. And when we showed that to focus groups,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: it was very effective. I think Biden will probably be
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: doing something like that. And then he says, you know,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: and for all the people who aren't feeling this, put
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: me back in there to finish the job. And I
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: will keep fighting these Republicans to raise wages and protect
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: people's health care and all the other things. Like, I
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: think it's just it's a it's a the whole finish
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: the job. slogan that he started in the State of
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: the Union, I think is good for the reelect, because
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: it shows you that he's not going to rest on
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: his laurels and say, everything's fine now, but he's going
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: to go fight.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: Especially because it deals with the age issue as well.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: Why is this old dude running again? Why doesn't he
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: just retire? If he can make a case, well, I'm
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: not retiring because I didn't finish this stuff. And also,
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: even the negative stuff. And look, my producers and I
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: were writing this script on the economy. We have to
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: put in, people are still hurting. We have to put
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: in all the qualifiers, the caveats. You go through the caveats,
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: child poverty up at 12 million. Hold on. He got
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: it down to 9 million. But the tax credit expired
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: because of Republicans and Joe Manchin, right? So even the
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: negative stuff, he can still frame it in the way that, yeah,
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: child poverty is bad. I'm the guy who tried to
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: cut it. Republicans stopped me. Student debt is bad. I'm
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: the guy who tried to relieve it. Republican Supreme Court
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: stopped me. So there is still, as you say, a
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: framing that can be done that says, even with the
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: pockets of pain, help me out. I think one area
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: where he hasn't said enough and he's failed to do
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: enough is health care still, especially in the wake of
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: the pandemic. Like there's been no mention. I know he's
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: not a Medicare for all guy. I get that. But
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: like public option stuff that he talked about in the campaign.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: We've not heard anything about that. And people are hurting
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: a lot of the pandemic, especially with people being thrown
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: off Medicaid. I think you could do much more on
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: the health care front.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think he will talk about the prescription
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: drug benefit that he got from the Inflation Reduction Act.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I think that also locked in some of the extra
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: premium support on ACA.
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: But you're right.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Like, I think that's an example of on the trail.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: He can talk about what he's done on health care,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: on prescription drugs and premiums. And then he can say,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: but you put me back in for another four years
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: and give me a Democratic House and a Democratic Senate.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: And we're going to push forward and continue to, you know,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: whether it's public option, which he had talked about in
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: his first campaign in 2020 or whatever else like he should.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: It's just it's a it's a continuum. So I interviewed
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: AOC a few weeks ago. asked her if she'll be
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: supporting Joe Biden in the primary. She said she would.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: It predictably led to a bunch of blowback from the
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: very online left. We also have Cornel West giving disappointed
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: leftists a place to go. I know you've had your
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: criticism of Joe Biden here and there. What do you
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: make of all this? How are you feeling about his
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: election prospects? What do you say to disappointed folks on
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: the left?
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: It's a great question. I saw some of that ridiculous
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: blowback to the AOC stuff. I'm torn. Because I could
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: talk about all the good things he's done. We talked
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: about the economy. There's a lot of bad things he's done,
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: especially on the foreign policy front. Don't get me started
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: on Israel, Palestine, Netanyahu. Don't get me started on MBS.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: A conversation for another day. I've been very critical. And healthcare.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: I think he's dropped the ball on that. But let
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: me just, on the election front, I am torn. Because
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: on the one hand, I am one of those people who,
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: like yourself, says, come on, you cannot vote third party
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: when fascism is at the door. We have a two-party system.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: A vote for a third party candidate helps the fascists.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: But I've been consistent on that. In fact, I had
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: Noam Chomsky on my podcast years ago before 2020 saying, yeah,
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: you've got to vote Democrat. Even Chomsky came out, which
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: he does every four years, to be fair to Noam.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: He comes out and says, you've got to vote for
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: the Democrat. Republicans are to the climate. Even Noam gets
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: it from the left. Having said that, I'm also someone
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: who sees himself as a person on the left. I
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: am very disappointed in many things about our economy, our
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: health care, our foreign policy, things that the Democrats have
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: failed on or turned a blind eye to. So I
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: get the disappointment as well. Now, the argument then becomes,
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: to the people who are disappointed, you can say justifiably,
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: you can't really vote through a party candidate. That will
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: let Trump back in. On the other hand, if they're
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: the kind of people who are going to let Trump
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: back in, what are you offering them? It's a two-way street.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: On the one hand, the left has to understand what
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: the greater threat is, and it is fascism. I mean,
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: Cornel West said that in 2020. What's interesting is Cornel West,
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: while he backed Jill Stein in 2016, in 2020, he
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: endorsed Biden, saying fascists are at the door. So that
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: argument is fairly straightforward. But on the other hand, if
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: you have a lot of liberals and centrists saying, oh,
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: look at these lefties, they let Trump win. Well, if
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: the lefties are that influential that they can let Trump win,
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: maybe you should do a little bit more for the left,
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: I would say.
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: No, look, I think.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: The piece that criticized AOC in New York Magazine was like,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: they accused her of appearing on an episode of Pod
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Save America where the hosts were saying that a vote
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: for anyone but Joe Biden was a vote for Donald Trump.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: And I saw that, I was like, well, That is true.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: That is a true statement. Now, if I was going
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: door to door and I came across people who were
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: unsure who they were going to vote for, who maybe
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: thought they might want to vote third party, I wouldn't
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: bully them. I wouldn't say like, hey, if you if
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: you don't want to vote for Joe Biden, you're putting
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump back into office and that's that. And what
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: are you crazy about? Like, I don't think that's the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: best way to approach it. I think the best way
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: to approach it is like, hey, you're free to do
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: whatever you want. if you really care about abortion, democracy, healthcare, wages, climate,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: you have a better chance of seeing progress on these
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: issues with Joe Biden over Donald Trump. And it is very, very,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: very difficult, almost impossible to see a third party person
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: winning in the screwed up system that we have. And
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: you can acknowledge that the system is screwed up.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: We can talk about the doorstep for a long time.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, as you know, John, I just wrote a
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: book about arguing, debating, persuading.
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: A lot of the social.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Great book.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much. A lot of the social science
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: out there on the importance of listening, on the importance
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: of empathy, how you win people over. There's been a
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: lot of social science done on, for example, winning people
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: over on transgender rights. Just spending time on the doorstep,
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: hearing people's objections out can actually have a massive effect four, six,
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: nine months down the line. All the data's out there.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: I get the importance of that. And I'm not saying
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: not to do that. But, you know, on the other hand,
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: I'm not an activist. I'm not knocking on doors. I'm
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: not a campaigner. That's not my job. My job. I'm
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: a journalist. I'm a commentator. I my job is to
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: say what I think is true. My job is to
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: share my opinion, my analysis of my opinion analysis is that, yes,
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: if you vote for a third party candidate, that will
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: increase the chances of fascists coming back of another Muslim band.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: of more child separation. So that is what I'm going
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: to say. And if that offends people, upsets people, oh, well,
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to win an election, right? I'm not, sadly.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: So as you say, there's a difference between what you
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: say on the doorstep, which, of course, if I was
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: on the doorstep, I'd be taking a much different stance.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: But what I'm saying now as a person sitting on
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: Popsave America is saying, let us be clear. If you
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: vote for someone other than Democrat or Republican, it is
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: not going to elect that person, but it is going
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: to help the right winger in this case. Now, we
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: can argue about 2016, about Gary Johnson and Jill Stein
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: and who influenced more. I get that. There's lots of
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: arguments to be had. But now with Cornell, of course,
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: that's going to take votes away from Joe Biden. If
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: Liz Cheney were to run as a third party candidate,
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: maybe you would go, well, maybe that helps Biden. But
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: right now, if it's just Cornel West or if it's
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: RFK Jr., if he decides to run, third party, then
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: we know who that's going to hurt in places like Wisconsin,
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: where Joe Biden won by 20,000 votes out of 3.2
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: million votes cast, like ludicrously close election. So yeah, it
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: bothers me. And as a Muslim, I think about Donald
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: Trump bragging about bringing back the Muslim ban, all this
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: horrific stuff. We have such short memories in this country, John,
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: like goldfish memories. We've already kind of moved, the Trump era,
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: we've already kind of Charlottesville, it's all so far away.
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: Oh, forget all.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: No, I go around, I'm going to go around shouting
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: about all that four years of chaos of a guy
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: who was the worst president in American history, probably. And
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: the idea that he will be the nominee again, and
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: that people who care about the climate will care about
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: these issues, as you just said, would risk letting him
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: back in, even though they have very good objections. I
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: respect the objections to Biden and the Democrats on certain issues.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: That to me seems mad. Sorry.
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: And, you know, an AOC saying that she's going to
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: endorse Joe Biden is not like her selling out to
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: to the neolibs like me. It's her realizing that there
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: is a fucking difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: And do you really believe that Donald Trump is an
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: existential threat to democracy or don't you? Like, is he
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: just a normal is he just a normal Republican? who
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: can be like a Democrat and you don't like him,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: or is he an existential threat?
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: A lot of these people on the left and the right,
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: some people, I want to say a lot, because a
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: lot of people are online people. As I say, a
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: lot of the left in 2020 did back Joe Biden, right?
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Angela David, Cornel West, Noam Chomsky, you can go through
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: the list, AOC, a lot of prominent leftists did say, oh,
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: there's no comparison, you've got to vote for Biden. But
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: the reality is that existential threat to democracy is the
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: key question. And a lot of people don't think Donald
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: Trump because they think the guardrails held and it was
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: all exaggerated. I remember people telling me in 2019, oh,
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: you don't know anything about America, but you're from England.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: If he loses, the Secret Service just walk him out.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: I'm like, he ain't going to go quietly. I said this,
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: I wrote this in 2019. There will be riots. He
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: will refuse to accept the election result. What do you
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: think is going to happen in 2024? It's going to
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: be 2020 on steroids.
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I know.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: And we're going to be reminded of all of this
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: and what he did in 2020 as we learn more
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: about the indictment that's coming down about what he did
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: on January 6th.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: I am leading up to it.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Mehdi Hassan, thank you so much for joining Pod Save America.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: We appreciate you coming by and come back again soon.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, John.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Before we get to Lovett's Chris Christie interview, two quick
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: housekeeping notes. Reminder that an ad-free version of Pod Save
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: America can now be yours when you join the Friends
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: of the Pod subscription community. Come for ad-free PSA. Stay
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: for the bonus content. Head to cricket.com slash friends to
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: join today. An even more important reminder, on Tuesday, August 8th,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Reproductive freedom and direct democracy are on the ballot in Ohio.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Ohioans are expected to vote on a ballot measure to
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: codify reproductive freedom in the state constitution in November. But
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Republicans created another ballot measure for August that would make
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: it way more difficult to pass a constitutional amendment to
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: guarantee abortion access in the state. They want to raise
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the level that it takes to pass that amendment from
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: 50% to 60%. And so that's what the August 8th
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: ballot measure is about. Don't let them get away with it.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Head to votesaveamerica.com slash Ohio to find all the information
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: you need to vote no on August 8th.
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: Go to it.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: When we come back, Love It interviews Chris Christie.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Joining us now, he is a former U.S. attorney, governor
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: of a top three state in the tri-state area.
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: And it says here you're a Republican candidate for president
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: of the United States.
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: That's what I've heard.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Governor Chris Christie, welcome to Pod Save America.
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: I'm happy to be here.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: And you know what the show is.
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: Yes, I do. What are you doing here? You asked
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: me to come.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: That's right. So I decided to show up.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: All right, cool. All right.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: So the latest polling out of New Hampshire shows Trump dominating.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: He's also dominating in national polls around 50 percent. if
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: another candidate is going to win, that candidate will have
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: to consolidate the anti-Trump vote and peel off some people
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: that have stuck with Trump until now. Who are those
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: voters and what is your best, most persuasive case to them?
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: Well, first off, I don't think that the numbers on
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: Trump are accurate. I don't think he's anywhere near 50%,
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: even with Republican primary voters. Just from what we've done
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: in terms of our own research and anecdotally, from traveling
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: in places like New Hampshire and South Carolina, where I've
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: been in the last week, I think there are people
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: who are in that number who would say to you,
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: I'd consider voting for Trump, but I'd also consider voting
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: for somebody else. And I don't know who that person
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: is right now, so I'll stick with Trump. So I
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: think that number, his number, I think is much closer
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: to 40 or below than it is 50. Secondly, I
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: think the only way to be the man is to
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: beat the man. So, you know, Our strategy is just
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: to go directly at them. And there's plenty to go
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: directly at them with. And I think that campaigns still persuade.
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: I absolutely believe that. I believe once people focus, and
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: I think the focus will start at the first debate
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: on August 23rd. I think people are willing to be persuaded.
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: And that's what I intend to do. And I don't
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: understand the other people in the race because they're all
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: trying to kind of be like him. And that's like
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: trying to be New Coke when Coke is still available.
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: Like if you like Coke and Coke is still there,
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: you're buying Coke. You're not buying new Coke. And look,
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: the pitch for me is twofold. It's first that, you know,
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: I'm going to tell you the truth. And it's not
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: always going to like it. You're not always going to
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: agree with it. But it would be nice for American
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: politics to go back to having people who tell the truth.
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: And that's at a premium in our party led by Trump,
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: but with others as well. Secondly, it's that I want
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: a presidency that goes back to doing big things. we're
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: so small now, I think, and, and focusing on things
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: that are really small, fighting with each other about small stuff,
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: dividing each other into smaller and smaller groups, and then
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: pitting ourselves against each other to where you can't even
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: go to a cocktail party anymore and have a civil conversation.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: You've been making this case at Trump. It doesn't seem
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: to have improved your numbers so far. It has produced what,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: between 35 and 46% of voters have said in recent
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: polls that they would never consider voting for you. Uh,
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Does that tell you something about how difficult a job
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: it is to persuade people to turn against Trump?
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard. But if it weren't hard, then there
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: would be 50 people trying to do it. I mean,
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: I know this is going to be hard. But on
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: the other hand, I know what I'm saying is true.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: So the Republican frontrunner currently has four trials scheduled in
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: a six-month span. There's a civil fraud case, the defamation sequel,
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: the hush money trial, and now the documents case. There
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: may be two more. You're a former prosecutor. Have you
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: ever heard of someone facing between four and six trials
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: within a few months for different legal issues?
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: Usually, folks like this commit discrete crimes. That winds up
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: having one trial. This guy has been a one-man crime wave.
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: And look, he's earned every one of them. If you
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: look at it, every one of these is self-inflicted. And
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: that's why, you know, do I think that prosecutors exercise
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: prosecutorial judgment in discretion in some respects that are questionable? Yeah,
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: and they always have. But what I say to people
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: all the time is whether you agree or disagree with
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: the prosecutors, look at the underlying conduct because that's what
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: he did. Yeah. Whether you believe it was a crime
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: or not, or whether you believe it's fair to prosecute
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: him for that or not, is the conduct something that
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: you believe is appropriate for someone who wants to be
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: president of the United States? Like, for instance, the prosecution
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: of Manhattan is one that I wouldn't have brought as
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: a prosecutor. But do we want someone as president who
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: is willing to pay off a porn star who he
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: had an affair with two months before a national election
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: to hide it from the people who he's asking for
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: their vote for president of the United States? I think
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: that's probably conduct that we should be frowning upon, right?
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: So I think that you've got to talk about this
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: in two different ways. One, as a prosecutor, and so
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: I don't believe in Manhattan prosecution. I absolutely believe in
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: the classified documents prosecution. Now we'll see what the other
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: two turn out to be. And I'll certainly give opinions
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: about them when I see them, if they come out.
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: But without doubt, it's the underlying conduct, John, that's the problem.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: And based on the evidence we've seen in the indictment
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: out of Florida, do you think that that that Trump
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: deserves to go to prison for what you saw in
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: that indictment?
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: Well, if he goes to trial and is found guilty,
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: there is a presumption of jail. Yeah. There is. So,
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: you know, now what a judge will do or not,
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: will a judge send at that time, he'd probably be
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: 78 years old, 79 years old. I mean, I know
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: when I was a prosecutor, when people got to that age,
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: you began to be very reluctant to send them to
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: jail because it was essentially a death sentence that usually
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: people at that age, in a prison setting don't do
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: very well. So I think there'll be a bunch of
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: things that a judge would and should consider. But what
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: the public needs to know is that if he's convicted
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: of those crimes, there is a presumption that he will
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: be sent to jail and a judge would have to
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: work against that presumption not to.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: And you got in an argument with Trump during debate
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: prep about the corruption of Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump.
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: If you were still a U.S. attorney, would you believe
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: it was worth investigating Jared's dealings with the Saudis?
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: If I could figure out how to have jurisdiction over
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: it in New Jersey, yes, I would. But yeah, absolutely.
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: I think it's worthy of looking at. Because I think
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: anybody who goes into public service and appears to have
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: used that public service to go on the grift, which
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: is the only thing you could call this.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think.
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: That does deserve to be looked at in the same
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: way that I think the stuff that Hunter Biden is
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: doing deserves to be looked at as well. I think
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: that We have had now two presidencies in a row
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: where the father in the family seems to be unwilling
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: or unable to control the conduct of their children. And
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: if you can't do that, how the hell are you
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: running the country? And I think that it makes people
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: feel like this is a banana republic.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: But you know, you recognize a difference, right? No one
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: has found any evidence that Joe Biden has done anything
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: wrong to the same extent that Donald Trump has over
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: and over again, right?
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: Well, hold on now. What I'm talking about are the kids.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: I know you're talking about the kids.
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: Well, but so let's not switch the topic.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Well, you switch the topic. You brought it back. You
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: want to talk, it's better to talk about both for you.
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, no. It's not only better to talk
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: about both for me, it is also appropriate to talk
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: about both because what we have now are a lot
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: of allegations, that President Biden inserted himself into Hunter's business
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: dealings when Hunter needed a little backup. Now, we'll find
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: out whether or not that's sustainable. or not, but I
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: would note that the president hasn't denied it and the
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: White House hasn't denied it. Their statement now is, well,
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: he's never been a partner in his business. Well, that's
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: not the allegation. The allegation is that he supported it.
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: But my bigger concern is, That when you allow members
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: of your family to trade on your name and benefit
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: from it when you're in the White House, which Donald
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: Trump clearly did, and which it appears Joe Biden did
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: when he was vice president with Hunter's business dealings, that
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: that makes people feel like they're not being served. And
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: that's a problem. And I told this to Donald Trump
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: when I was running his transition in 2016. Don't hire
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: your family in the White House. And he said, why?
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: And I said, because you can't hire people in the
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: White House that you can't fire. And you can't fire
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: people that you have to have Thanksgiving with. So don't
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: put them in there. Worse yet, he not only put
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: them in, but he empowered them to interact with foreign governments.
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: I mean, what was Jared Kushner doing in the Middle East?
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: We had two very able secretaries of state in Rex
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: Tillerson and Mike Pompeo. And they could have handled that.
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: I believe he sent Jared there because Jared wanted to
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: go there because all along, Jared's intent was to create
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: those relationships in order to capitalize on them with money
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: on the back end.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: So this is an historic presidential primary. I believe it
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: is the first where you can argue that one of
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: the candidates tried to kill two of the other candidates.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: In the case of Mike Pence, it was Trump at
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: the Capitol with the rope. In your case, he willfully
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: exposed you to COVID.
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: He did.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: That was really serious. You told Axios that when you
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: were in the hospital, you thought you might die.
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: I was definitely worried that we were a day or
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: so away, the doctors told me, from being intubated. And
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: that was definitely not something that led to great results.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: And then Trump calls you.
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: He did.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: And he was very concerned about you.
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: Well, kind of. He was in Walter Reed at the
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: same time. Yeah. And he didn't sound very good. And
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: he asked me how I was doing. But once he
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: got past asking me how I was doing, he asked
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: me if I was going to tell the press that
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: he had given me COVID. Now, at that time, I
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: didn't know that he was the one that had given
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: me COVID because none of us in the room knew
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: who patient zero was.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: None of you knew that he had had a positive
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: test and then continued exposing himself to people for days
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: and days.
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: Correct. Correct. In fact, that session of debate prep, which
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: was the Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday before that Tuesday
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: debate at the White House, We later found out from
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: Mark Meadows' book that that Saturday morning he had tested positive.
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: And then the wild thing is he came into the room,
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: the map room in the White House, and it was me,
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: Kellyanne Conway, Bill Stepien, his campaign manager, Hope Hicks, Stephen Miller,
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: his speechwriter, and Jason Miller, his communications aide. And we
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: all had masks and we all had to test negative
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: before we were allowed to come into the White House.
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: And And I asked him, I said, you know, Mr. President,
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: do you want us to wear masks or do you
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: not want us to wear masks? We've all tested negative.
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: So if you're comfortable with us not wearing masks, we're
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: fine with not wearing them. He said, no, don't wear them.
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: And he knew. He knew that he had tested positive.
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: And we ended up getting all of us except for
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: Jason Miller in that room all got COVID.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: And, you know, you told Mark Leibovich for his book,
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: This was the one time you laughed while you were
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: in the hospital because when Trump is so concerned about
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: being blamed for this rather than for your, this person
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: that he's worked with that's helped him, you thought this
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: guy's never going to change. When you find out that
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: he knew he had COVID, did you feel like when
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: you heard that, you thought, wow, Trump, he's as bad
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: a person as I thought? Or do you think, wow, Trump,
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: he's a worse person than I imagined?
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: The latter.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: You learned something about his character.
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: From that experience. Yeah, I thought that was worse.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: You thought that was worse.
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think passing on a communicable disease that at
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: that time had no treatments and no vaccine makes you
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: worse than I thought. Yeah.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Now, the reason you're exposed, as you said, you're in
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: debate prep. You're in debate prep for several days. You
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: were asked in November of 2021, basically a year out
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: of Trump being in office, whether you regretted being part
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: of debate prep And your answer was, the only part
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: of debate prep I regret is the COVID part.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: Shouldn't you regret being there at all, given that now
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: your case is that he's unfit to serve? I don't
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: understand how you can't regret. You were there in a
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: political capacity helping him be reelected. Now you say he
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: is unfit, shouldn't be in office.
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: Right. Yeah, no, look, I don't try to go back
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: and rewrite history. I felt like what they were asking
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: me was, Did you regret, do you regret doing that
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: at the time? Knowing what I knew at the time? No,
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: I don't regret it. But would I do it again? No. So,
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: you know, I look at the question differently.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: So you're saying at the time you wanted Trump to
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: be reelected.
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: I did.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: And now you're glad he wasn't reelected. You don't want
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: him to be president.
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: I don't want him to be president.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: No.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: So that time you spent In a political capacity there
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: to help him make his best case, because right now
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: you're basically here to make the opposite case, right? You
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: were there to help him figure out how to sell
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: what he had done and to promise, figure out how
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: to frame what he would do in the future.
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: And now you're doing the opposite.
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: Correct.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: Because I've come to a different conclusion based on a
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: whole bunch of things that have happened. Cause you can't just,
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: you know, isolate it to that. There's a lot that's
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: happened since election night, 2020, a lot first undercutting our democracy.
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: in a meaningful, important way on election night. To me,
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: that was the line of demarcation.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: That was your breaking point.
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: That was for me. But going forward, all this context
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: since then has been even worse, in my opinion.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about some of what the other candidates
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: are saying or not saying. This week, we had a
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: bunch of people asked about January 6th. Tim Scott doesn't
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: hold Trump responsible for the violence at the Capitol. Pence
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: claims he can't know Trump's intent. DeSantis said it was
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: a protest that, and this is a quote, ended up devolving,
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: you know, in a way that was unfortunate. That's tough stuff.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: Is this a replay of 2016 where the only way
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: to fight the lies for everybody to call bullshit together,
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: but nobody wants to put themselves out there?
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: Well, look, I don't know what people are going to
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: conclude as they go further into the race. But I
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: think you know exactly what I think. And I think
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: he is. morally responsible for what happened on January 6th.
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: He invited those people there. He then gave a speech
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: where he repeated the lie that the election was stolen.
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: He told them to go march up to Capitol Hill
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: and said he would march with them. Of course, I
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: knew he wouldn't when I was listening to it because
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: if there's a risk of him breaking a fingernail, he's
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: not going to get involved. So he went back into
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: the safety of the White House. And then while they
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: were doing what they were doing up there, rioting, defacing,
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: the Capitol injuring and killing people and trying to interfere
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: with the certification of a valid American election. He sat
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: in the dining room off the Oval Office watching it
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: on TV and not doing a thing for hours.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: He loved it.
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: And so that's, I'm really disappointed in Tim most particularly
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: because I know Tim Scott well and I think he
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: is a really good person. I like Tim a lot
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: and I think he's a good man. but I just
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: don't understand that answer.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: And you're not disappointed in Mike Pence because he's a
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: weird dude, right?
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: Well, no. I wouldn't call Mike a weird dude, but
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: what I would say is.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Have you ever had a normal conversation with Mike Pence?
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Come on.
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: I have.
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: I have. And maybe one time the three of us
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: can go out. Yeah, no, I'd love that. What a
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: normal conversation would look like with Mike Pence. Viggen eyes.
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: Come on.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: He's a weird fucking dude.
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: I have had normal conversations with Mike Pence, but Mike
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: can't break himself away from his association with Trump for
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: whatever reason. He can't, even though he's running against him,
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: he still can't bring himself to say the truth, which
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: is that he incited, directly incited those people to chant,
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: hang Mike Pence. Because in that speech on January 6th,
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: he said, it's all up to Mike Pence now. And
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: if Mike doesn't do the right thing, we're all going
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: to be very upset with him. Well, you don't have
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: to question what his intent was there. And that's why
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: I don't understand Mike. And Ron just can't figure out
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: who Ron is. So. That's why he gave that answer
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: that you had a difficult time understanding.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: Have you spent a lot of time with Ron DeSantis?
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: I have not.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: He seems like he wants to be tough but not
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: take on Trump. It doesn't seem to be working for him.
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: Oh, I think we could all agree right now, including
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: probably Ron, that it's not working for him. I mean,
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: when you fire a third of your staff and you're
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: on your third reboot since May, things are tough. But
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: we'll see what happens. You never know.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Do you think that wokeness, is as big a threat
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: to America as Ron DeSantis does. Are you waking up
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: in the night worried about people being woke?
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: I don't agree with much of it, but I think
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: that we have much bigger issues that we should all
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: be concerned about and discussing as much as that's being discussed.
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: And so, you know, on many of those issues, my
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: view is I think when it involves kids, we should
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: let parents deal with that. And we don't need the
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: government in the middle of this stuff on either side
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: of it, pushing an agenda one way or another. I
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: think parents should be the people who are dealing with
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: their kids on stuff like that. I'm not a big
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: government consultant. and it looks to me like Ron is
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: a big government conservative and thinks that he can substitute
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: his judgment for the judgment of parents. And I think
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: that's a dangerous thing for either party to get involved in.
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: That's it.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: I actually want to ask you about this. So parents
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: and doctors come together and decide that the best course
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: of action for a trans teenager is to begin transition
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: for their mental health, for their long-term prospects. That's what
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: the medical community says is best. That's what the teen,
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: the doctors, the parents all say. And you're saying the
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: government should not be allowed to step in.
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's smart for them to do it.
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: I don't want to see people in government substituting their
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: judgment for a parent's judgment. I could tell you this.
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: I speak about this as a father first before an
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: elected official. And no one knows my four children better
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: than my wife and I know them. And if my
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: wife and I decide something is best for our children
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: and the government wants to get in the middle of that,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: and we have medical professionals who agree that that's the
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: way we should do things, I think it's a very
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: dangerous place to go. Now, I know some people argue, well,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: we have all kinds of laws that prevent parents from
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: doing things. But those are things that are intentionally abusive. children.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: I don't think you can put this in that category.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: And quite frankly, I think parents should make these judgments.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: And I think government shouldn't be involved in either way.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: They shouldn't be out there encouraging it, and they shouldn't
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: be out there discouraging it. They should let parents make
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: these calls. We got enough problems that government doesn't fix well.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: You think the government, where's the government out there trying
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: to encourage people to be trans?
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: No, I'm saying that they shouldn't be on either side. Sure.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: So that if someone came forward, let's say, with a
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: policy saying.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: Let's have posters in schools that say, have you considered
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: being trans today?
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: That's not right.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Well, it's just not a thing. There's no one encouraging it.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: And I'm not saying that there is. But I'm saying, no, no, wait.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: It's important to know, though, that both sides need to
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: understand that if they act in a way that interferes
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: with parents' rights, that they're wrong, no matter how righteous
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: they may think their cause is. And that's the point
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: that I'm making.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about, now you said, you know, you want
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: to be in this race to tell the truth. You're
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: telling the truth. In April of 2021, you're recovered from COVID.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Trump is running around Mar-a-Lago with boxes trying to stay
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: a step ahead of the feds.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: We didn't know that at the time.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: We didn't, but he's in a Scooby-Doo basically down there.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: You go on Sean Hannity's show and here's what you said.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: You said, overall, I give the president an A. The
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: fact of the matter is there were some things that
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: happened specifically at the end of the presidency that clouded
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: his accomplishments. He almost kills you. He drives you over
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: to the government.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: Of course, I didn't know at the time that he
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: tried to intentionally kill me.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: What's a B?
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: Look, I was talking about policies. If you get the
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: whole context of that answer, which you didn't, we were
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: talking about the policies. And there are many, if not most,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: of his policies that he tried to achieve that I
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: agree with. But I had said consistently, not only in
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: that interview, but in all the time that I was
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: on ABC, starting in January of 2018, when I objected
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: to the way he conducted himself inside the presidency and
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: said many times, that I thought he was setting a
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: bad example by doing certain things. And you go back
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: and look at the record, you'll see that that's there.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: So what we were talking about specifically, and the question
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: was specifically about the policies, it was not about anything else.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you have a policy argument now, too. You've
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: said he's a failed leader, that he failed to rebuild Obamacare,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: that he racked up the debt, he didn't build the wall.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: You don't think he's succeeded on policy now, do you?
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: You think he's a successful policy president?
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: Again, we are talking about his policies and what he
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: tried to do. not what he accomplished or didn't accomplish.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: That's a different question. And on those issues, which I'm
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: bringing up now, like Obamacare, like the national debt, like
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: the wall, he failed. And the point I'm making on
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 4: those are that those are promises he made to the
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: American people standing on the stage of the debates in
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: the primary and in the general election in 2016. He
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: didn't deliver and now he wants to be rehired. Well,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: then you got to consider his performance on being able
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: to get stuff done. It's not good enough of politics
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: just to talk about it. You have to be able
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: to accomplish it. And he didn't.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: But you think he deserves, but you don't still believe,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't say that Donald Trump as president deserves an A.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: And that's not what I said in that statement either.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: If you go back to the entire question, John, and
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: be fair about it, it was about his policies, what
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: he was advocating for. And what he was advocating for,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: I would give an A to. That doesn't mean I
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: agree with everything. And an A can be a non-perfect test.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: It can be a 90. Oh. Right? Okay? It's a 90. Okay.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: That's an A. But still, because there's some stuff he
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 4: advocated for that I disagreed with. But that was the
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: context of the question. So let's be fair about what
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: it was.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: I guess, stepping back from all this, what I've been, what,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: as someone from the outside, what I always think about
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: when I see Donald Trump and when I see someone
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: like you standing behind him is the saying, you can't
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: con an honest man. That the reason the best cons
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: work is because it convinces the person who's a victim
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: to That they're actually in on it. When you endorse
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: in 2016, you don't just stand behind him. You say,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump is the kind of person that keeps his word.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: The world will know that you can trust Donald Trump.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: Do you believe that? You believe that Donald Trump is
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: a man who keeps his word?
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: In 2016, when I said it, I did. Because all
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: my experience with Donald Trump from when I met him
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: in 2001 through to 2016, when I stood on that stage,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: was he had never broken his word to me. He
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: had always treated me fairly and in a way that
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: was in fact generous. So that's what I felt in 2016.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: I'm from this media market.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: I grew up, Donald Trump was on the news, famous
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: bullshit artist. You tell a story now, right, that he
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: called you when you were governor And New Jersey had
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: a bunch of debt. Was his advice, make sure New
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: Jersey keeps its word? What was his advice to you?
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: Go bankrupt.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: Go bankrupt.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: Even though it was illegal and even though it'd be overturned.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: Because you'd be able to what? Claim you were a winner.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: Was your judgment wrong about Donald Trump as a person?
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: I just.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: Well... I'm trying to understand how a person can do
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: a full reversal. And I'm glad you're out there telling
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: the truth about him now. But I don't... I just
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: don't understand how you could have come to such a
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: diametrically opposed conclusion after he left office, after he lost.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: Well, then... if you don't understand that, then with all
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: due respect, you're pretty small. Because if people can't continue
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: to learn, grow, and then have an opportunity to change
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: their mind based upon what they learn and observe and hear,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: then we're going to be static, a static people in
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: a static country. And so you can continue to try
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: to go at like, three different angles on this and
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: try to get me to say something different, but I'm
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: not going to. And the reason I'm not going to
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: is because it wouldn't be true.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: Do you think if, if given that you, the breaking
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: point was January 6th?
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: No, the breaking point was election night, 2020. Okay.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: Election night, 2020.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 4: Election night, 2020 at 2 30 AM. I'm on a
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 4: set at ABC news. He came out into the East
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: room of the white house behind the seal of the president.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: And he said, the election has been stolen. And I
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 4: knew there was no way he could have known that.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: At that moment, and for someone who is the President
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: of the United States to say that to the American people,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: to knowingly undercut their confidence in our democracy purely for
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 4: his own personal interest, was the moment where I said,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: I am done. That is a absolute violation of the
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: trust that the American people placed in you, and you
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: are denigrating that office that you've held, and I'm done.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: And if you go back and look, At the video
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: from right after his talk, George Stephanopoulos came directly to
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 4: me because I asked him to, and I denounced what
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 4: had happened. And to the point where I got a
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 4: text immediately from Eric Trump saying to me, like, how
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: can you say those things? And I'm like, because you
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: guys are out there saying this stuff and it's untrue.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 4: So I want to be clear. The breaking point for
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: me was not January 6th. January 6th added. Added. Added
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: to it. But to me, everything and everything he did
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: and said from election night forward, is what led to
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 4: January 6th. Not just January 6th speech. So, you know,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: you were in debate prep, you thought he deserved re-election.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: Had he won, you'd likely still be in the fold, right?
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: You know, again, I don't know. It depends on how
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: he would have conducted himself. Because I was a regular
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 4: critic of him in the 17 to 20 period when
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: I thought he did things that were wrong. And so
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: I don't know what I would have been. I had
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 4: already turned down four different cabinet-level positions with him during
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: that period because I just didn't feel comfortable working for him.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: All right, let's move on from Trump.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 4: I'm shocked. Is it the show over? Because usually people
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: only talk to me about Trump.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: I want to ask you a policy. I want to
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: ask you a policy.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: So, did Clarence Thomas do anything wrong by accepting all
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: those gifts from Harlan Crowe?
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: He didn't?
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: Nope.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: You think that's okay? You think the trips, not disclosing them?
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 4: I don't think there's any problem with it because... Harlan
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: Crowe didn't have any business before the court. And if
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 4: he did have business before the court, then it would
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: have been Thomas' obligation to recuse himself.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: You think he should have recused himself if Harlan Crowe
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: had business before the court?
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: Okay. And even though now he.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: By the way, it's not just about the gifts. It's
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: also about a friendship. There's obviously a friendship there for
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: a long time.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: After he became Supreme Court Justice, they became friends.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 4: Right, but it doesn't matter when.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: They just met.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 4: You become friends with someone. Things happen. It's not like relationships...
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 4: end when you get into public office. And I met
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 4: lots of people when I was governor who were friends
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: then and remain friends to this day.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: They were just a billionaire and a justice who vibed.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: Let me tell you, knowing Harlan Crowe the way I do,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: they would vibe.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, you know Harlan Crowe?
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 4: I do. I know Harlan and his wife. She's a
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: Jersey girl. Okay. I know them both well. They're good people.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: And you said that the Dobbs decision was correctly decided.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: Yes, it was.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: And you believe it should be left up to the states.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 4: Yes, I do.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: Does that mean you would veto a national abortion ban?
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: I don't think we'll ever get one. And what I've
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 4: said is that until there's a consensus among the states,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 4: the federal government should stay away from the issue. The
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: states are the ones who have the right to make
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: this decision. And a lot of things are going to
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: happen over the course of the next year and a
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: half or so that are going to surprise people and
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: already surprise people. The referendum in Kansas, I think, surprised
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: a lot of people who see Kansas as a red
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: state and thought that they would vote for a ban.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: And in fact, they rejected it. And you have great
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: variety around the country and how states are dealing with it.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 4: Oklahoma has banned it in every instance except for life
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 4: of the mother. In my state of New Jersey, you
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: can have an abortion up to the ninth month. So
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 4: I think what it shows is there's a lot of
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 4: diversity of opinion on this issue around the country. We
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: should allow that diversity to play out. across the 50 states.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: And then and only then should the federal government look
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: and see, is there a national consensus that most of
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: the country could agree with? And if there was one,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: whether it was 15 weeks, 20 weeks, 12 weeks, whatever
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: it would be, if there became a consensus, then that's
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: something I think the federal government could consider doing then
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: and only then. And by the way, if you didn't
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 4: have a consensus, you're never going to get 60 votes
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 4: in the Senate for it anyway.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: Was John McCain right when he voted against the repeal
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: of Obamacare?
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 4: No, I think he was wrong.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: Even though there wasn't a replacement?
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: No, I think he was wrong, and that's not why
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 4: he did it. He did it to screw Donald Trump.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 4: I know John McCain. I knew him really well. And
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: John McCain was a war hero and an extraordinary public servant,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: but he also had one of the best tempers and
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: longest memories I've ever seen in a politician, and that's
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 4: saying something. And I absolutely believe that John McCain looked
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: at that vote, knew that Donald Trump had promised this,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 4: And John McCain had, in fact, opposed Obamacare. I think
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 4: John McCain voted no because he's like, good, Trump's been
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: beating me up, saying I'm not a war hero, calling
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: me names, insulting me, insulting my supporters. Guess what? Thumbs down.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 4: And if you think that that doesn't enter into politics
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 4: at times, that personal dynamic, then you haven't been watching
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 4: closely enough. So I think he was wrong on the substance,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: but I understand exactly why he did it.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: So that's a case where you think that what his
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: motivations are not what he said they were.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: Oh, I absolutely believe that they were not. No, no.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 4: Because they're opposite of what he had been saying all
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: through his public career. So he made a different decision.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 4: I'm not criticizing him for it.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: So just, you know that he didn't really mean what
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: he said. Because what he was saying was opposite of
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: what he'd said his whole political career.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: On that topic. And I believe that he was motivated
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 4: by something else. So that's fine. It doesn't make his
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: decision wrong.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: But isn't that exactly the argument I'm making to you
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: about your conduct?
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: No, it's not.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: It's exactly the same thing.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: It's definitely not. No, it's not, John. Good try, but
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 4: it's not. It's not. It's not because we're talking about
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 4: one discreet issue, Obamacare. And what I'm saying is that
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 4: I believe he voted the way he did. I don't
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 4: know because I didn't ask him. But you have a
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 4: gut feeling about it. But I believe knowing John McCain
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 4: that that's why he did what he did. And I'm
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: not even saying that what John did was right in
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: doing that. But I know why. I believe I know
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 4: why he did it.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: But you understand that the reason I feel the same
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: way about you is because actually out of respect for you.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: Because I think, because I know, but that's real. It is.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: It's out of respect for you because, because before.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: You- You think I'm smarter than that, is what you're saying.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: Smarter than what?
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: Than to have believed what I said in 2016. Yeah.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: No, no, no.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: I think you're smarter than, I think you're smarter than, yes.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: I think that you knew better and are smarter and
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: don't believe the bullshit that you were saying about Donald
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: Trump for years. I think that you're better than that.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: I think you know better. I think there's a devil
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: and an angel on your shoulder. Well, there's a devil
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: and angel on everybody's shoulder.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: However, you know what? You're wrong about this one. But
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 4: thanks for the compliment.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: But sincerely.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: I appreciate it. I believed it at the time. And
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: I have turned out to change my view based on
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 4: his conduct and everything I've seen in the years since then.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: And that's the way I feel about it. Now, I
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 4: appreciate your compliment because people listening to Pod Save America
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 4: hearing you actually give me a compliment is going to
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: be a great moment for me.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: But nonetheless.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 4: This shrewd U.S.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: Attorney who dealt with every level of sleaze and schmuck
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: in the world. I think knew better. And I'm wrong
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: about that. You didn't know better.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 4: I didn't know better. I didn't feel that way at
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 4: the time, and that's not what I believed at the time.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 4: I don't think anybody would ever call me naive.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: The year is 2015. You're in New Hampshire. You walk
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: out of a pizzeria. The question is, who has better pizza?
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: New Jersey or New Hampshire?
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 4: Oh, it's not even close. I would say New Jersey.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: At the time, you said you didn't know. Because you
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: hadn't tried it.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: Well, you know why I didn't try pizza in New Hampshire?
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: Because I knew it wouldn't be good.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: Because it's got to be dog shit.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't know about dog shit, but I knew
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 4: it wouldn't be good.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, these people are not making good pizza.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 4: I don't know about that. Sometimes you get some converts
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: out there who make a good pizza. New Hampshire. But
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: I think likely, more likely than not, I would like
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 4: New Jersey pizza more than New Hampshire.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: Why do you think New York and New Jersey don't
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: recognize the existence of Connecticut pizza? We don't even acknowledge it.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: We should, because there's some really good Connecticut pizza. Like,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: you know, what's his name? There's Pepe's.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 4: Pepe's.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been to that. It's good.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: Have you been to Pete and Elda's in Neptune?
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 4: No, I have not. In Neptune?
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: In Neptune.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 4: I'll try it.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: If you eat the extra, extra large, they'll get a
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: free t-shirt.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 4: I don't think I need to eat the extra, extra large, buddy.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 4: I didn't either. I'm trying to get a little thinner.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: Are you?
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: Always.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: Always?
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 4: I've been trying for 20 years.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: You know, the celebrities are all on... Ozempic and Manjaro
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: and Wegovy. What do you think?
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I understand. Look, I've tried almost every diet and
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: method known to man. I haven't tried that one yet,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: but that might be next on the list. Okay. All right.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: Governor Chris Christie.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: John, what a pleasure.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: What a delight.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: It is.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: Are your people going to kill you for having me on?
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think it's going to be fine. No, look,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: I want to make sure... Look, I want to make
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: sure we're not a cheap date here because... Being against
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: Trump is not enough.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 4: Well, look, that's for your judgment. I didn't come in
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: here thinking that I was going to turn you into
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 4: a Christie voter.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 4: But what I think is there are people who listen
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 4: to your show who need to hear this stuff from
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: a Republican. So I'm not in here thinking like, you know,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: I'm going to walk out and there's going to be,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 4: you know, 5,000 new campaign contributors who came off a
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 4: pod to save America.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: Now, if they did, I'd be very happy about that. Well,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: you're on the debate stage.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 4: You're fine. Well, you know, it's an evolving thing. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 4: So you got to continue to add to those donors.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: You go to chriscristy.com and you can do that. Oh, God.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 4: Maybe John could do that.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: Fucking bleep it.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: Do not bleep that.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: Bleep it.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 4: Do not bleep that or I will start to curse
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 4: like crazy here. You won't know.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: You won't know. It'll be after you're gone.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: By the way, I will know. I will know after
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 4: you've done it and it will make you a dishonorable person, John.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: That I can't have.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 4: You can't be a dishonorable person because you know what
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 4: you just did was wrong, don't you?
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: See, I would know it was wrong.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 4: Did you know it was wrong?
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: I would know it was wrong.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 4: Did you know it was wrong?
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Did I know? If I had bleeped your name.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 4: To bleep it, would you know that would be wrong? Absolutely. Okay,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 4: well good.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: But I still might do it. Then I know you
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: won't do it. Oh, then you know I won't do it.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 4: I know you say you're an honorable man, so I'm
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 4: going to hold you to your word.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: I try to be.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: Good.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: I guess we're done.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 4: Thanks for doing this. Thank you, John. I appreciate it.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Mehdi Hassan and Chris Christie for joining Pod
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: Save America today. Everyone have a great weekend and we
• 1:17:17
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• 1:17:20
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• 1:17:24
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• 1:17:28
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• 1:17:31
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• 1:17:35
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