Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Tot mom Casey Anthony launches legal battle after she’s acquitted in tot-daughters murder

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Tot mom Casey Anthony launches legal battle after she’s acquitted in tot-daughters murder · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: for protecting our children. Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on
1:07
Speaker 1: Sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. Casey Anthony's parents
1:12
Speaker 1: are threatening to take a legal action against their daughter.
1:15
Speaker 1: I don't think it will overcome to that. I don't
1:17
Speaker 1: think she'll sell her story reality shows, even a show
1:22
Speaker 1: with her and O. J. Simpson Cindy Anthony also telling
1:26
Speaker 1: TV host Chris Hansen that Casey might not remember what
1:28
Speaker 1: happened to her daughter Kaylee because she might have blacked
1:31
Speaker 1: out during a seizure. Yes, I think Casey is mentally ill.
1:40
Speaker 1: It never ends, doesn't. A three year old little girl
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Speaker 1: was found double bagged with trash bags like she's trash
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Speaker 1: and thrown her dead body thrown into a swampy area.
2:00
Speaker 1: And then the person accused of the crime put her
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Speaker 1: head on her pillow every night for months on, in
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Speaker 1: just ten houses down from where her baby girl's body
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Speaker 1: lay decomposing. Of course I'm talking about Top Mom Casey Anthony,
2:24
Speaker 1: And of course it ain't over yet. I'm Nancy Grace.
2:30
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Now.
2:33
Speaker 1: Top Mom Casey Anthony hits the headlines again in the
2:37
Speaker 1: last hours, demanding that a lawsuit be thrown out, a
2:43
Speaker 1: lawsuit accusing her of lying. Oh which lie? Could it be?
2:50
Speaker 1: Alexis Terrestrick? I'm not really sure which lie she's talking about,
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Speaker 1: the one where she says she didn't murder her baby
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Speaker 1: that one, or or throw little Ellie, uh, double bagged
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Speaker 1: into a swampy area. I mean, how many times did
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Speaker 1: she drive by that each day. Did she even bothered
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Speaker 1: to glance over there while her child was decomposing? She
3:16
Speaker 1: was out partying Harty on stripper poles at hot body contests,
3:22
Speaker 1: slung up with her boyfriend who never saw Kelly as
3:26
Speaker 1: the weeks passed by, then made up an imaginary babysitter,
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Speaker 1: Zenia Gonzalez. Guess whether it turned out to be a
3:34
Speaker 1: real Zenia Gonzalez who ruined her life. She had never
3:38
Speaker 1: even met Kelly or taught mom Casey Anthony, I mean
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Speaker 1: the wake of pain this woman has left behind, including
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Speaker 1: her own parents. It's just unimaginable. But right now, alexis
3:53
Speaker 1: ures Chuck Radar Online dot Com investigative reporter, what is which?
3:59
Speaker 1: Specific I as top Mom Claiming to be false, She
4:04
Speaker 1: says that Roy Krunk's lawsuit against her for defamation is
4:08
Speaker 1: not true. He says that it was because Casey and
4:12
Speaker 1: her legal team lied about him, saying that he was
4:15
Speaker 1: perhaps a suspect. You know what, you know what, alexis,
4:18
Speaker 1: No good D goes unpunished. Dr Bethany with me. Dr
4:21
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, high profile l A psycho analysts. Isn't that
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Speaker 1: the truth? No Good D Goes unpunished? My husband and
4:29
Speaker 1: I text that to each other all the longest. No
4:32
Speaker 1: matter what we try to do somethow, I would always backfires.
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Speaker 1: Dr Bethany, do you remember Roy Kronk. I do, like
4:39
Speaker 1: it was yesterday. I remember poor Kronk, the meter reader
4:43
Speaker 1: of all people. He's the one who found Kylee if
4:48
Speaker 1: he had not so crazy. Dr Bethany, Remember he saw something.
4:52
Speaker 1: He's out reading meters. Remember this is in Orlando, Florida,
4:56
Speaker 1: on a fairly nice subdivision where top Mom's parents runts.
5:00
Speaker 1: Oh my stars, as poor people, what they have lived through.
5:04
Speaker 1: That's where they lived. And there she lived with them, freeloading,
5:07
Speaker 1: laid on the sofa and chips all day. So that's
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Speaker 1: where they live. And he's out there doing his job.
5:13
Speaker 1: Is Dr Bethany has just told us, and he sees
5:16
Speaker 1: something unusual. He calls police. Then then a couple of
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Speaker 1: weeks past, he keeps going back, going, while it's still there,
5:23
Speaker 1: and he keeps calling back, and I believe one time
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Speaker 1: there was a snake out in there, as I recall anyway, Yeah,
5:31
Speaker 1: as it goes. He finally stays there until they come
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Speaker 1: one day finally show up. Take a listen to this
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Speaker 1: nine one one call. There was something round and white
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Speaker 1: underneath of it and I don't know what it is,
5:49
Speaker 1: but it's just wouldn't look like something that should be there.
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Speaker 1: There's a swap area that I saw something that I
5:55
Speaker 1: called in a hip the other day and they said
5:57
Speaker 1: the would perspuch an officer about to me when I
5:59
Speaker 1: got there? What what you were just listening to? Is
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Speaker 1: the meter reader? Roy Cronk calling cops yet again? And
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Speaker 1: when they get there, Alexis Torres Chuck writer online dot Com,
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Speaker 1: what happens? They find Little Cayley's body, double wrapped in
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Speaker 1: a trash bag, rotting, decomposing because she's been left out
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Speaker 1: in the hot Florida elements after being murdered for months
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Speaker 1: on end, not even my houses away from the home
6:27
Speaker 1: where she lived with her loving, loving grandparents and where
6:31
Speaker 1: Casey lived because she had nothing else to do. Hey,
6:33
Speaker 1: let me tell you something about the loving grandparents. We
6:37
Speaker 1: only saw the worst of them during this trial. I mean,
6:40
Speaker 1: imagine it. I don't know if I told you Dr
6:42
Speaker 1: bethany Oh, I did. I did, Alan Jackie you know this, Alexis,
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Speaker 1: I'm not sure you do. But right now, my nephew
6:48
Speaker 1: who was like a son to me when he was
6:50
Speaker 1: growing up. Um, he and his wife are building a house,
6:54
Speaker 1: and he and his wife and their new baby and
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Speaker 1: their cat and their dog have moved in with us.
7:00
Speaker 1: And we also have, of course me, my husband, my
7:04
Speaker 1: two children, my mother, a cat, a dog, and Lucy's
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Speaker 1: two new guinea pigs, Abby and Chloe. So this house
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Speaker 1: is a rocking people. But when you were talking about
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Speaker 1: the loving grandparents, uh, they my little nephew Sam have
7:19
Speaker 1: brought their baby here, Alex And can I tell you
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Speaker 1: how much I look forward to seeing that little guy
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Speaker 1: in the morning. I mean he leaves to go to
7:27
Speaker 1: play skill, like six thirty in the morning. I just
7:30
Speaker 1: love that little guy. Can you imagine Dr Bethany, George
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Speaker 1: and Cindy. They have this freeloading daughter. Okay, they're probably
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Speaker 1: turning a blind eye to it, and then she has
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Speaker 1: this baby. She's never revealed the dad and the baby
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Speaker 1: comes into their world. It's Killy and that little girl
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Speaker 1: those big brown eyes. Oh my stars, how much do
7:54
Speaker 1: you think they love that child? Bethany Nancy? They love
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Speaker 1: little Killy so much. And you know, one of the
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Speaker 1: most tragic parts of this story. I remember this so clearly,
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Speaker 1: Cindy and George were taking um primary responsibility for taking
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Speaker 1: care of Kaylee. They loved her, but putting the bill
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Speaker 1: and doing all the babysitting and all the diepey changes
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Speaker 1: and the poopy pants, the works, everything, And then Cindy
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Speaker 1: grows concerned that Casey is not taking care of the
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Speaker 1: little girl. So was not, so Cindy and George go
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Speaker 1: to therapy. Do you axcuse me, Bethany? Can you talk
8:33
Speaker 1: regular people talk take care of the baby? How can
8:36
Speaker 1: she take care of the baby when she's got one
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Speaker 1: leg wrapped around a stripper bowl at the bar? But
8:41
Speaker 1: do you remember Cindy and George went to therapy and
8:44
Speaker 1: the therapist encouraged Cindy to place pressure on Casey to
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Speaker 1: take care of Kayley. And it's after that that Kayley
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Speaker 1: goes missing. So that's oh, I forgot that, remember that piece.
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Speaker 1: She probably blames herself, right, Well, let me tell you
9:02
Speaker 1: I started this whole thing. Dr Bethany was saying, we
9:05
Speaker 1: always saw the worst of George and Cindy, and I
9:08
Speaker 1: got off track, of course. Do you remember Alexis Torrez
9:12
Speaker 1: chuck the clip of George Anthony yelling at the media
9:19
Speaker 1: out in his front yard. Okay, first of all, and
9:21
Speaker 1: he was chewing him a near ear end. Listen, his
9:26
Speaker 1: daughter's charged, suspected of murder. The light of his life.
9:32
Speaker 1: I mean, I love my husband, you know that alexis.
9:35
Speaker 1: But my children and that baby Alex that's living with
9:39
Speaker 1: us now that that's that's my whole world. I love
9:43
Speaker 1: those three and all of a sudden to just have
9:48
Speaker 1: Kelly gone. And then every morning you'll walk out the
9:53
Speaker 1: door and there's the media camped out just on the
9:57
Speaker 1: edge of your grass that they're not putting one toe
10:01
Speaker 1: on it, but they're right there at the edge to
10:04
Speaker 1: get a picture of you or video of you. Every
10:06
Speaker 1: morning when you're going through all this, you can't even
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Speaker 1: get out of your home. I guess he did yell
10:11
Speaker 1: at everybody, right, he did. He did. The thing that
10:15
Speaker 1: I found to me that was the scariest part of
10:17
Speaker 1: the whole time is when you broke the news that
10:20
Speaker 1: George Anthony tried to commit suicide. I was watching your
10:24
Speaker 1: show right now, well as I was standing there. You
10:30
Speaker 1: you broke in with your news live that George Anthony
10:33
Speaker 1: had been taken to hospital because he tried to commit suicide.
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Speaker 1: He was so devastated over his daughter's child, the little
10:40
Speaker 1: girl who lived with him, and all the pressure surrounding
10:44
Speaker 1: this case, and and all the news that had been
10:46
Speaker 1: broken that he had been talking to another woman instead
10:48
Speaker 1: of Cindy, and that he tried to kill himself because
10:51
Speaker 1: the pressure of it was too much while his daughter
10:54
Speaker 1: was eating chips and having a great time. Didn't even
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Speaker 1: know Axon, Um, yeah, I remember that. And can you
11:02
Speaker 1: imagine Dr Bethany, I mean, Alexis and I are just,
11:06
Speaker 1: you know, the regular people. You're the shrink. Can you imagine?
11:10
Speaker 1: So you're the light of your life goes missing this baby,
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Speaker 1: and then suddenly the focus is on you. Did you
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Speaker 1: have anything to do with it? And everybody starts sifting
11:20
Speaker 1: through your life. You know, I think of the worst
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Speaker 1: thing I've ever done. Let me make that plural, the
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Speaker 1: worst things I've ever done, because there's plenty of them.
11:28
Speaker 1: And to suddenly have the worst thing you've ever done
11:32
Speaker 1: splashed on the front page of the Orlando Sentinel, and
11:36
Speaker 1: then of course that's an awesome paper. Then it's picked
11:39
Speaker 1: up all over the world and it's on I mean,
11:42
Speaker 1: it lives forever on the internet. Everything you've ever done,
11:45
Speaker 1: every ticket, every lawsuit, every job you've ever been fired from,
11:49
Speaker 1: every person you've ever flirted with, it's all there. And
11:55
Speaker 1: then your spouse knows everything you've ever done, every secret
11:59
Speaker 1: you've ever up there it is. And remember, Nancy, one
12:02
Speaker 1: of the secrets is that he had had a young
12:04
Speaker 1: woman um with whom he had had some kind of
12:06
Speaker 1: a relationship. I'm not sure what the relationship was anymore,
12:10
Speaker 1: but that was exposed in in trial. His own daughter
12:14
Speaker 1: accuses George of molesting her. So he has that trauma.
12:19
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to get my handkerchief. I'm gonna have
12:21
Speaker 1: to get my handkerchief out of my pocket because just
12:24
Speaker 1: thinking about what these parents have lived through. I mean,
12:27
Speaker 1: you know, on top of losing Kelly. But back to
12:30
Speaker 1: the lawsuit, Alan Duke, why did you get a so
12:33
Speaker 1: off track? I mean, it never ends with you. Um,
12:37
Speaker 1: back to the lawsuit. Okay, it's Roy Kron, the poor
12:40
Speaker 1: meter reader who's minding his own business, trying to do
12:44
Speaker 1: the right thing. He sued top mom Casey Anthony for defamation,
12:49
Speaker 1: claiming she sicked her lawyers on him to smear his
12:53
Speaker 1: name publicly and suggest he tampered with the body. They
12:59
Speaker 1: all so insinuated he Kroc may have done all this
13:05
Speaker 1: to snag a reward. In other words, you know, tamper
13:10
Speaker 1: with the body to get the money. And I guarantee
13:12
Speaker 1: you suggest at trial that he was the one that
13:17
Speaker 1: killed Kelly. That that's where I was headed Kronk, says
13:21
Speaker 1: attorney Jose bay As. That's top Mom's lawyer called him
13:25
Speaker 1: a quote. This is an opening statements to the jury.
13:31
Speaker 1: I was there, Alexis. Did you come to the trial?
13:35
Speaker 1: I can't remember anymore? So many people were there. I
13:39
Speaker 1: remember I was sitting up um at that point in
13:44
Speaker 1: the balcony, I think, and because I wanted to be
13:48
Speaker 1: able to get in and out without causing any commotion.
13:51
Speaker 1: You know, like in church when you start rustling down
13:54
Speaker 1: the aisland sitting on all the old ladies, that causes
13:56
Speaker 1: a big commotion. So I was sitting up trying to
13:59
Speaker 1: go an seen and unheard in the balcony. And Jose
14:03
Speaker 1: Bias tells the jury that this meter reader is a
14:06
Speaker 1: quote morally bankrupt individual who actually took Kelly's body and
14:14
Speaker 1: hid her. I guess he did see for defamation, I mean,
14:21
Speaker 1: Alexis Terress Chuck, do you recall him blaming croc i do.
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Speaker 1: It was the wildest opening statements from an attorney that
14:29
Speaker 1: anybody had probably ever seen in a while. He told
14:33
Speaker 1: he said so many things during those opening statements that
14:36
Speaker 1: he never even touched upon or approved or said again
14:40
Speaker 1: during the trial. But that was what he said about
14:42
Speaker 1: Roy Clunk, the man who found this little world, who
14:44
Speaker 1: spent months agonizing over it. He had called the police originally,
14:47
Speaker 1: and they didn't even follow up on his tip. He
14:49
Speaker 1: went back a couple of months later, still saw Cayley's body.
14:53
Speaker 1: This time he had that there was a skull, and
14:55
Speaker 1: finally the police came out. They were spending all their
14:58
Speaker 1: time with Casey where she was. You know, she lied
15:01
Speaker 1: about saying she worked Universal Studios. The cops actually she
15:04
Speaker 1: took them physically to Universal Studios, was walking around the
15:08
Speaker 1: building and finally turned to them and said, oh, well,
15:10
Speaker 1: you know it just kidding, I don't really work here.
15:13
Speaker 1: Every lie possible. They were tracking down with Casey trying
15:16
Speaker 1: to find out what happened. What is that? Is that
15:18
Speaker 1: an ailment to Dr Bethany Marshall. Dr Bethany Marshall joining
15:22
Speaker 1: us from l a high profile psychoanalysts and um when
15:29
Speaker 1: you get I mean it took to the very last
15:34
Speaker 1: moment for top Mom to admit she didn't work at Universal,
15:38
Speaker 1: and um, we go to Disney whenever we can afford it,
15:42
Speaker 1: but we then go over to Universal. I really didn't
15:44
Speaker 1: know that much about it, but now we love it
15:46
Speaker 1: over there because of Harry potter Land. It's huge, It's humongous.
15:52
Speaker 1: So she tells police. So she's been telling her parents
15:55
Speaker 1: forever that she works there. She's got these fake I
15:57
Speaker 1: d s and I guess a little uniform, and so
16:01
Speaker 1: she was trying to tell the police all about her
16:04
Speaker 1: work scenario, where she had been working, and how she
16:07
Speaker 1: met the babysitter. And she lied all the way in
16:11
Speaker 1: the police car, all the way the Universal. They get
16:14
Speaker 1: to the security gate, the security guards go, we don't
16:17
Speaker 1: have any record of you being here. She goes, oh, well,
16:19
Speaker 1: this is my extension. They call the extension. She's sitting
16:23
Speaker 1: in the car with the cops. Dr Bethany. She sticks
16:26
Speaker 1: to her story and she starts naming names, and they
16:30
Speaker 1: call the people, and they finally get in. As I recall,
16:35
Speaker 1: they get through security, they get all the way in there,
16:41
Speaker 1: and finally, I guess, when nobody recognizes her she goes, Okay,
16:46
Speaker 1: you got me like it's a joke. I don't work here.
16:49
Speaker 1: I mean, what is that type of a liar that
16:52
Speaker 1: will take you all the way when they're totally their
16:56
Speaker 1: back is literally against the wall, there's nowhere else to turn.
17:02
Speaker 1: Then they go, okay, I was lying, Nancy, okay before
17:07
Speaker 1: I answered the question. I remember the I remember when
17:10
Speaker 1: you broke this story and you covered the story night
17:14
Speaker 1: after night, and if you had not covered the story repeatedly,
17:18
Speaker 1: we would not know about it. Now. I remember the
17:21
Speaker 1: very first article I ever read about Casey Anthony where
17:25
Speaker 1: they talked about the police interview and that she said
17:27
Speaker 1: she worked at Universal, she got in the police cars,
17:30
Speaker 1: she she rode there. She kept the lie up until
17:34
Speaker 1: the very last minute. I was so shocked when I
17:37
Speaker 1: read that article. I remember reading it three or four
17:39
Speaker 1: times in preparation for the show that that night, because
17:43
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe what I was reading. And now we
17:45
Speaker 1: know that that Casey Anthony is a pathological liar. I
17:49
Speaker 1: think she's the sort of liar who actually is so
17:54
Speaker 1: in the moment with her lies that she believes them.
17:57
Speaker 1: I mean to the point of delusions, saying that you
18:01
Speaker 1: know she knew she did not work at Universal No, no,
18:05
Speaker 1: she but but she has the capacity to believe that
18:10
Speaker 1: she can persuade other people and there's no sense of consequences.
18:15
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I guess one of the things
18:17
Speaker 1: I can say is that certain personality disorders cluster together, narcissistic, antisocial,
18:24
Speaker 1: and borderline. And what all these personality disorders have in
18:28
Speaker 1: common is something I frequently talked about, which is reckless
18:32
Speaker 1: disregard and lack of concern for the right and safety
18:35
Speaker 1: of others, impulsivity, failure to plan ahead, reactivity, clinging and
18:41
Speaker 1: rejecting behavior. They just either idealize and cling to people,
18:45
Speaker 1: or they they withdraw at the first sign of rejection,
18:49
Speaker 1: and that in that matrix of personality characteristics, they're not
18:55
Speaker 1: thinking about anybody else but themselves. I mean, I think
18:58
Speaker 1: that she thought she could come troll the police. I
19:01
Speaker 1: think that's what's so amazing. Maybe she was so used
19:03
Speaker 1: to controlling and lying to everybody else for years, and
19:08
Speaker 1: you know, it was just a second nature to her,
19:11
Speaker 1: and suddenly it wasn't working. Hold on, guys, I've got
19:14
Speaker 1: some more sound I've got to play for you from
19:16
Speaker 1: Roy Kronk. But first I want to thank our partner
19:19
Speaker 1: who's making today's program possible with my awesome guests Alexis Dress, Chuck, Dr.
19:24
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19:29
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22:15
Speaker 1: Thank you for all the fun I am having with
22:17
Speaker 1: fat Boy in this caller, and thank you for being
22:20
Speaker 1: our partner today. I want to go back to Top
22:23
Speaker 1: Mom Casey Anthony, Guys, I want you to hear what
22:28
Speaker 1: Roy Kronk, the poor meter reader who is the source
22:31
Speaker 1: of this lawsuit Top Mom is trying to get thrown out,
22:34
Speaker 1: um said to my friend Robin Roberts over at ABC
22:38
Speaker 1: g M A take a lesson to what Kronk tells Robin.
22:42
Speaker 1: You make this discovery, you call and what was the response. Well,
22:47
Speaker 1: I called that night about to o'clock and they said okay,
22:52
Speaker 1: and then nothing happened. No one called me back. If
22:55
Speaker 1: I called him again the next night about ton o'clock,
22:58
Speaker 1: they told me to call crime line I didn't want
23:00
Speaker 1: to call it crime line. I just wanted to stay
23:02
Speaker 1: as anonymous as possible, and so I called crime Line
23:06
Speaker 1: and they said they'd have an officer meet me out there.
23:08
Speaker 1: So the next day, when I got off work, I
23:11
Speaker 1: drove over there. I called the officers, showed up. He
23:16
Speaker 1: just pulled his expanded metal with's haunt out, went down
23:18
Speaker 1: to the water's edge. I pointed in the area what
23:20
Speaker 1: was at He just swept his head back and forth
23:23
Speaker 1: and said, I don't see anything, and pretty much that
23:26
Speaker 1: was it. And that was in August December. You go
23:29
Speaker 1: back to the same area. Why did you go back?
23:32
Speaker 1: I had to go to the bathroom. So I went
23:34
Speaker 1: in there and I looked over and I saw a
23:36
Speaker 1: shape that didn't look quite right to me. And when
23:39
Speaker 1: I pulled the bag up, I basically looked down and
23:42
Speaker 1: there it was. Did you know? It was the same
23:44
Speaker 1: area where you had found except there was no water
23:47
Speaker 1: there this time because it all dried up. And you
23:51
Speaker 1: called authorities again, and this time they did fine the remains.
23:57
Speaker 1: And then, as a matter of fact, Alexis and Dr
23:59
Speaker 1: Bethan he actually steals my quote. Actually maybe I took
24:03
Speaker 1: maybe I stole it. From him. Listen, there's so much
24:05
Speaker 1: speculation about UM, about your your possible uh involvement and
24:12
Speaker 1: as a as a private citizen that came forward and
24:14
Speaker 1: help and help so much in this case. How do
24:17
Speaker 1: you how do you feel about all that no good
24:19
Speaker 1: deed goes unpunished? I mean, all the speculation that there
24:24
Speaker 1: was like tips and all that nobody tipped me off.
24:26
Speaker 1: I figured this out by myself, and I just have
24:29
Speaker 1: chose not to say anything back until the day. Well,
24:32
Speaker 1: let's let's set the record straight today. Did you have
24:34
Speaker 1: any contact with anyone in the Anthony family before finding
24:39
Speaker 1: I've never been about those people. Now, did you have
24:41
Speaker 1: anything to do with the disappearance of Kayley Anthony or
24:45
Speaker 1: anything like that? Of course not, Um, would you still
24:49
Speaker 1: do it all over again? They've been really hard on me,
24:51
Speaker 1: and you try to do the right thing, you try
24:53
Speaker 1: to be a nice guy, and you just get vilified
24:57
Speaker 1: and to where people I mean, And the sad thing
24:59
Speaker 1: is people actually believe some of the things that are
25:00
Speaker 1: being said. And I have nothing to do with this
25:03
Speaker 1: at all, But you know, you listen to some of
25:06
Speaker 1: these conspiracy theories, and you know, I've done everything known
25:09
Speaker 1: to men kind and I haven't done anything. I just
25:11
Speaker 1: tried to help put a little closure to that poor
25:13
Speaker 1: child and she got a decent burial in the end.
25:16
Speaker 1: All this, that's all I tried to do. So the
25:18
Speaker 1: current lawsuit Alexis is where Totten Mom Casey Anthony as
25:24
Speaker 1: now saying to the court throwout Cronks defamation suit against me.
25:29
Speaker 1: It's baseless exactly. She says, there's no proof at all
25:33
Speaker 1: that I directed my legal team, who I spent every
25:36
Speaker 1: single day with three years on end, and told them
25:39
Speaker 1: all my stories. There's no proof that I told them
25:42
Speaker 1: to lie about Crunk, to say things about him that
25:44
Speaker 1: may or may not have been true. She says, once again,
25:47
Speaker 1: it's not her fast sat there shaking her head up
25:50
Speaker 1: and down the whole time. Um, you know it's going
25:54
Speaker 1: to be a shame if they throw this lawsuit out.
25:57
Speaker 1: You know, Dr Bethany, I know they didn't teach you
26:00
Speaker 1: this when you were getting your doctorate degree, but you
26:04
Speaker 1: might want to use this. It might help help you
26:07
Speaker 1: in some of your patients. But you don't know a horse.
26:10
Speaker 1: Look at their track record, all right, Dr Bethany, I'm
26:12
Speaker 1: sure there's some fancy way that you like to say that,
26:15
Speaker 1: but it's so true, isn't it true? Alan? And I
26:20
Speaker 1: believe you've got the sound that George Anthony says the
26:25
Speaker 1: defense team told him he had to quote fall on
26:29
Speaker 1: his sword and take the stand and lie about his
26:34
Speaker 1: alleged involvement in Kelly's death. He did not have anything
26:37
Speaker 1: to do with it, by the way, they wanted him
26:40
Speaker 1: to lie, according to him, in front of the jury
26:45
Speaker 1: under oath with your hand on the Bible. Isn't that right? Alan? Yes, Nancy,
26:49
Speaker 1: let's listen to that interview. Okay, listen, so we know
26:52
Speaker 1: we're gonna pinder on you because you need to fall
26:54
Speaker 1: on the sword for your daughter. You need to do this,
26:56
Speaker 1: I said, with the defense attorney said you you need
26:59
Speaker 1: to fall on the sword. Need to fall on the sword.
27:01
Speaker 1: From my I need to take responsibility and claim that
27:04
Speaker 1: what responsibility The reason why Kaylee wasn't here with us anymore,
27:08
Speaker 1: the reason why she's gone. Do you think looking back,
27:10
Speaker 1: she was mentally ill? Yes, I think Casey is mentally ill.
27:14
Speaker 1: I really do. I think Casey is mentally ill. She's
27:17
Speaker 1: never had her seizures worked up. You think Casey had
27:21
Speaker 1: a seizure potentially and didn't even know what happened to Kayley.
27:25
Speaker 1: That's a possibility, and she doesn't remember when she has
27:29
Speaker 1: seizures unless she knows she has been her tongue or something.
27:33
Speaker 1: Would you support a lawsuit against your daughter. I don't
27:37
Speaker 1: think it will overcome to that. I don't think she'll
27:39
Speaker 1: sell her story. George seems to think that it might,
27:43
Speaker 1: and now there are rumors of reality shows, even a
27:47
Speaker 1: show with her and O. J. Simpson. What do you
27:52
Speaker 1: say to that if it came down to that, I
27:54
Speaker 1: probably would. She's talking about Keyley still being with her
27:58
Speaker 1: a part of her life and perhaps having another child.
28:03
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know where she could have
28:05
Speaker 1: another child with. It wouldn't be anywhere in the United
28:09
Speaker 1: States of America. Who knows. Maybe some of the country
28:11
Speaker 1: would accept her. She's had boyfriends since she's gotten out.
28:16
Speaker 1: Tell me about the suicide attempt. From the time that
28:24
Speaker 1: Kaylee we were told to Kaylee was missing, taken with
28:30
Speaker 1: Zanny whatever, whomever she was with. I didn't feel I
28:36
Speaker 1: did enough to go find her. Did you want to die?
28:41
Speaker 1: I wanted to be with her. I want even to
28:46
Speaker 1: this day, she should be here, not me. I've seen
28:51
Speaker 1: Kaylee on a couple of occasions. Oh, no, I've seen her.
28:56
Speaker 1: I've seen her in the flesh. I've seen and you're
29:00
Speaker 1: right in my house. One time she woke me up
29:03
Speaker 1: in the morning to tap one on with her little
29:05
Speaker 1: finger like she used to do. Was this a j
29:08
Speaker 1: Was this a dream? It wasn't a dream. It was
29:10
Speaker 1: it was like you and I are talking right now.
29:12
Speaker 1: How do you explain the strong spirit that's in our house?
29:16
Speaker 1: Was their imagination? Oh, that's not an imagination. That that's
29:19
Speaker 1: that's love, and that's that's a connection that I wish
29:22
Speaker 1: more people could have. Is she a killer? Do you
29:27
Speaker 1: think she intentionally wanted to kill Kylee? If Casey is
29:32
Speaker 1: watching this, what is your message to her? Stay away,
29:36
Speaker 1: stay away from me. If she wants to her relationship
29:39
Speaker 1: again with her mom, she's got a lot of explain
29:42
Speaker 1: to do. But I don't I don't want to hear
29:43
Speaker 1: it no more from her. I don't want to see her. Cindy,
29:46
Speaker 1: If Casey is watching this, what do you say to her?
29:52
Speaker 1: Case be true to yourself, start being honest with yourself
29:55
Speaker 1: and own everything, equip putting blame on every buddy else Alexis.
30:01
Speaker 1: Isn't it true that after George Um whom I have
30:06
Speaker 1: met him and his wife Cindy, and they were genuine
30:11
Speaker 1: and kind and polite and gracious everything you didn't see
30:19
Speaker 1: in the trial under all that in that pressure cooker,
30:24
Speaker 1: and I believe that's their true nature. I think this
30:26
Speaker 1: whole thing has devastated them. I don't think they give
30:29
Speaker 1: a fig about anything else anymore. Um, isn't it true?
30:34
Speaker 1: Alexis trust Chuck writer online dot Com that then, when
30:38
Speaker 1: George wouldn't go along with the lies, the defense was
30:41
Speaker 1: perpetrating that he was responsible for Kelly's death. They then
30:46
Speaker 1: accused him. George Anthony, former cop A molesting taught mom,
30:54
Speaker 1: I mean, how low can you go to claim something
30:58
Speaker 1: like that on your own dad, Alexis. They did. Jose
31:04
Speaker 1: Bias said that Casey had to leave for school every
31:07
Speaker 1: day after being molested by her dad, and she had
31:10
Speaker 1: to smile and hide the fact that just hours before.
31:13
Speaker 1: And this is what jose Bias said during the trial.
31:16
Speaker 1: He said that she left the house after she had
31:18
Speaker 1: had her dad's penis in her mouth. You know, Dr Bethany,
31:23
Speaker 1: I missed my dad so much. You know, he's been
31:27
Speaker 1: gone now two years. I think about him every single day,
31:33
Speaker 1: if I could just have him back for one hour,
31:36
Speaker 1: I just I don't think I would even say anything,
31:40
Speaker 1: because there are no words that could describe how I
31:44
Speaker 1: feel about him. And the thought that you could claim
31:49
Speaker 1: this publicly on your dad to save your own skin,
31:54
Speaker 1: it's just awful. And Nancy not only did she say
31:59
Speaker 1: it about her fall father, she said it about her
32:01
Speaker 1: brother Lee. Do you remember that she she would claim
32:05
Speaker 1: that Lee would come into the bed at night and
32:09
Speaker 1: pull her bra off or fondle her under the bra
32:12
Speaker 1: something like that. So the lies about her father and
32:16
Speaker 1: her brother were pretty extensive. And I keep going back
32:19
Speaker 1: to the this clustering of personality disorders, the borderline narcissistic, antisocial,
32:25
Speaker 1: and and what is at the core of those personality
32:29
Speaker 1: disorders is a failure to attach at the very bottom,
32:32
Speaker 1: That's what it is. She cannot empathetically attached to anybody.
32:36
Speaker 1: She wasn't attached to her mother, she was not attached
32:39
Speaker 1: to her father, she wasn't even attached to her own child.
32:42
Speaker 1: In fact, most parents, most mothers who commit um infanticide,
32:48
Speaker 1: do have borderline personality disorder. That's the predominant driving motivation.
32:55
Speaker 1: And then you add on top of that, not only
32:57
Speaker 1: the lies about her parents, but then she's lying about
33:00
Speaker 1: her parents and then she's clinging to her boyfriends. You know, Um,
33:05
Speaker 1: she steals Amy Hayzinga's um check book. Do you remember
33:09
Speaker 1: that after Kayley goes missing and while her daughter is
33:13
Speaker 1: allegedly missing, uses Amy Hazings check book, forges her name
33:18
Speaker 1: on there, and she's caught on video by uh like
33:22
Speaker 1: an eighteen pack of beer and a bunch of push
33:26
Speaker 1: up bras and lingerie while the daughter is missing, and
33:28
Speaker 1: then moves in with the boyfriend. And then she's kind
33:31
Speaker 1: of living the high life in her own little, small
33:34
Speaker 1: little way, you know, where she's just taking up with
33:37
Speaker 1: this new boyfriend. So you have the failure to attach
33:40
Speaker 1: to her own parents and her own child. She's lying
33:43
Speaker 1: about them, throwing her father and brother under the bus,
33:46
Speaker 1: and then she's idealizing the boyfriend and trying to build
33:49
Speaker 1: a life with him. And this is what you see
33:52
Speaker 1: with these personality disorders, is this idealization and devaluation, the
33:56
Speaker 1: devaluation and hatred towards her own family, and then the
34:00
Speaker 1: clinging too in the idealization of the new boyfriend. And
34:04
Speaker 1: this is one of the reasons I think that she
34:07
Speaker 1: killed Kyley is that there was this long for idealized
34:11
Speaker 1: life with the new boyfriend and little Kayley was in
34:13
Speaker 1: the way. You know, I was looking over claims made
34:17
Speaker 1: by their private eye, Dominic Casey, their private eye, and
34:23
Speaker 1: you reported on this. Alexis and Writer online dot Com
34:27
Speaker 1: claims in bankruptcy papers that there was a lot of
34:31
Speaker 1: misconduct going on between the defense lawyer, hose A Bayaz
34:35
Speaker 1: and Top Mom Casey. Anthony Bayaz has denied this, but
34:39
Speaker 1: in an affidavit a sworn statement, the p I claims
34:44
Speaker 1: that he witnessed a naked tot Mom running from bay
34:49
Speaker 1: As his private law chambers one weekend. When he went in,
34:54
Speaker 1: He says that he then he Dominant Casey tells tot
34:59
Speaker 1: Mom she can not continue engaging in this behavior, and
35:03
Speaker 1: that Top Mom responded she had to do what the
35:06
Speaker 1: defense lawyer said because she had no money for her defense. Now,
35:10
Speaker 1: let me tell you something. Number one, the state would
35:13
Speaker 1: pay for her defense if she did not have a
35:15
Speaker 1: lawyer pay for a fleet of defense attorneys. She wanted
35:20
Speaker 1: to stay with Bias. That was her decision. Um. Now,
35:25
Speaker 1: of course, Bias has claimed that this is not true.
35:29
Speaker 1: He has denied it vigorously. So I'm less concerned with
35:34
Speaker 1: Top Mom Casey Anthony running naked all around the law office,
35:38
Speaker 1: if it is true or not. I'm more concerned about
35:42
Speaker 1: something else. The private investigator, and this is the p
35:45
Speaker 1: I for the defense of Top Mom, working with the
35:50
Speaker 1: defense every day. Alexis Terres Chuck Radar online dot com.
35:56
Speaker 1: Do you recall what the of it? I says the
36:01
Speaker 1: lawyer told him. Jose Bias told Dominic Casey, who I
36:06
Speaker 1: have spoken with countless times over the years and who
36:09
Speaker 1: has always been a straight shooter with me. He said,
36:12
Speaker 1: you better get out there and find that body, because
36:15
Speaker 1: the police are about to find it, obviously, saying Tominic's
36:18
Speaker 1: implying that Casey knew exactly where she had put her
36:22
Speaker 1: little daughter's dead body. So not only is Top Mom
36:25
Speaker 1: Casey Anthony demanding the judge throw out this lawsuit, her
36:30
Speaker 1: legal woes go on. You know, it has been years
36:35
Speaker 1: since this whole thing went down, but Top Mom Casey
36:40
Speaker 1: Anthony seemingly is enjoying a great lifestyle. She has moved
36:47
Speaker 1: in with the private investigator. Reportedly that work for the O. J.
36:51
Speaker 1: Simpson defense team is anybody's surprised about that. But her
36:57
Speaker 1: defense lawyer, Todd Mcluso, has had quite a bit of
37:01
Speaker 1: legal troubles. What about it, Alexis Torres. Check what's happened
37:05
Speaker 1: to her right hand man on the defense team. Well,
37:08
Speaker 1: he was actually convicted of conspiracy to traffic drugs? Well, well,
37:12
Speaker 1: what what conspiracy to traffic drugs? Not? You know, an
37:16
Speaker 1: ounce or something? Thirteen million dollars worth of cocaine. They
37:22
Speaker 1: said that he had been conspiring to fly this cocaine
37:25
Speaker 1: from Ecuador to Honduras and a jury found him guilty
37:29
Speaker 1: of this thirteen million dollars of drugs. That's a lot
37:32
Speaker 1: of drugs. You know, what do I have to say?
37:36
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany, here's another one you can use with your patients.
37:38
Speaker 1: Here's some free advice. I'm not going to charge you.
37:41
Speaker 1: Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas that would
37:44
Speaker 1: work here, or birds of a feather flock together. Or
37:48
Speaker 1: let's see, a swan doesn't swim, doesn't fly on, a
37:51
Speaker 1: swan doesn't swim in a cesspool. I mean, I could
37:54
Speaker 1: go on, but those are some you might want to
37:56
Speaker 1: use with your clients. Um, do you know a week
37:59
Speaker 1: go ahead? Well, what we call it in my field
38:02
Speaker 1: is institutional sociopathy. Better, it's when one person who lacks
38:10
Speaker 1: had Bethany, what did you say, institutional sociopathy? Oh, dear,
38:15
Speaker 1: go ahead, what is that? What that means is one
38:18
Speaker 1: person who lacks a conscience finds another person who lacks
38:21
Speaker 1: a conscience. That person finds another person who lacks a conscience,
38:25
Speaker 1: and then they clustered together in a group. And when
38:28
Speaker 1: you're talking about Jose Bias, you know, throwing out such
38:31
Speaker 1: wild lies about Kronk meter reader and about George and
38:35
Speaker 1: about Lee in his opening statements, I think that you know,
38:39
Speaker 1: Casey found an attorney who was, as you know, unconscientious
38:43
Speaker 1: as she was, and then they they found another person
38:47
Speaker 1: and another person, and all these people clustered together and
38:50
Speaker 1: conspired together. Um, the only person who seems to have
38:54
Speaker 1: had a conscience is the investigator. Um, you know, the
38:58
Speaker 1: dad was not the only one. George wasn't the only one.
39:02
Speaker 1: That the defense insisted fall on their sword. They roped
39:07
Speaker 1: Cindy Anthony. Now this is a mother's love. This is
39:10
Speaker 1: a mother's love. Cindy got on the stand and insisted
39:16
Speaker 1: that the damning computer searches that top Mom allegedly did
39:20
Speaker 1: for how do you make chloroform the knockout drug? How
39:26
Speaker 1: do you make that? And there were, of course the
39:29
Speaker 1: suggestion of chloroform in Top Mom's trunk. Cindy got on
39:35
Speaker 1: the stand and claimed that she was the one that
39:38
Speaker 1: made those searches and that she was really looking up
39:41
Speaker 1: chlorophil chlorophyl, you know, the the um chemical, let me say,
39:48
Speaker 1: natural chemical that occurs during the process of photosynthesis when
39:52
Speaker 1: plants grow. That she was actually looking up chlora phil
39:57
Speaker 1: and somehow she got spell checked and look top chloroform.
40:03
Speaker 1: I mean, Alexis, do you remember that they enlisted the
40:06
Speaker 1: entire family to lie for Top Mom. They did, and
40:09
Speaker 1: they had they pulled up, you know, really solid proof,
40:13
Speaker 1: it seemed to me of of what was searched on
40:15
Speaker 1: the computer, and there was no chlorophyll searched. There wasn't.
40:19
Speaker 1: It was just Cindy's multiple appearances on the stand were
40:24
Speaker 1: heartbreaking because the longer it went on, the more things
40:27
Speaker 1: that she tried to say covering up for her daughter.
40:31
Speaker 1: Everybody could see that she wasn't telling the truth. I
40:33
Speaker 1: guess except for those twelve jurors that found Casey had
40:37
Speaker 1: not just well, I gotta tell you something. A lot
40:39
Speaker 1: of people would scream that Cindy had committed perjury and
40:44
Speaker 1: that wasn't true. But you know what, you can ask
40:47
Speaker 1: any mother, would you do this for your child? And
40:51
Speaker 1: even though Top Mom had lied on George had allegedly
40:58
Speaker 1: killed her own daughter, Cindy still loved her and was
41:04
Speaker 1: willing to risk going to jail herself to save Top Mom.
41:11
Speaker 1: Casey Anthony, I mean, you're right, it was heartbreaking. I
41:14
Speaker 1: remember watching her on the stand and I just I
41:16
Speaker 1: just wanted to leave the courtroom. I felt like it
41:18
Speaker 1: was something so raw and emotional that we shouldn't even
41:23
Speaker 1: witness it. We shouldn't be seeing Cindy up there, you know,
41:29
Speaker 1: sacrificing herself for Top mom. Um. Guys, I want to stop.
41:35
Speaker 1: I've got a pause. I want to pause and thank
41:38
Speaker 1: our partners making today's program possible. I know Alexis rez
41:44
Speaker 1: Chuck is tired. Okay, I'm looking at Jackie. She's tired.
41:48
Speaker 1: I know Dr Bethany's tired. Alan, you're probably you probably
41:52
Speaker 1: sleep like a baby every night. But wouldn't it be
41:55
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41:58
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42:03
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42:06
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42:08
Speaker 1: why when you're twenty, your body has a natural ability
42:11
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42:15
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Speaker 1: listen to top Mom Casey Anthony's mother on the stand
45:52
Speaker 1: this as she has been spotted at various bars and
45:57
Speaker 1: has given statements that she's so proud that men find
46:01
Speaker 1: her attractive at bars and still buy her drinks. You
46:05
Speaker 1: know what, if I went to a bar looking the
46:07
Speaker 1: way I look right now, they're probably all run screaming
46:10
Speaker 1: for the heels. Okay, But Todd, mom wants us to
46:14
Speaker 1: know that she can steal snag a man in a
46:18
Speaker 1: bar to buy her a drink. You know what. I'm
46:23
Speaker 1: sure she is so proud of that accomplishment. Now, I
46:27
Speaker 1: want you to listen to her mother, Cindy Anthony. So
46:33
Speaker 1: I started texting her just to make sure that everything
46:36
Speaker 1: was okay, and I'd leave messages and then she called
46:40
Speaker 1: me back. I just wanted to, you know, talk to
46:42
Speaker 1: her at least every day to make sure she was okay.
46:45
Speaker 1: And I did persist every day asking if I could
46:48
Speaker 1: speak with Kaylee because I missed hearing her a little voice.
46:51
Speaker 1: All right? And were you given an opportunity to speak
46:55
Speaker 1: with Kaylee at all? No? Were you told at that
46:59
Speaker 1: point where Hayley was Yes? What were you told? I
47:03
Speaker 1: was told at various times that either Caylee was mapping
47:08
Speaker 1: or um with Jeff's mother and Zachary. Maybe at the
47:13
Speaker 1: beach in Jacksonville, on a boat, um, just various places. Now,
47:20
Speaker 1: take a listen to what George and Cindy say to
47:24
Speaker 1: Chris Hansen a Crime Watch Daily Listen. Would you support
47:29
Speaker 1: a lawsuit against your daughter? I don't think it all
47:32
Speaker 1: overcome to that. I don't think she'll sell her story.
47:35
Speaker 1: George seems to think that did mine. And now there
47:38
Speaker 1: are rumors of reality shows, even a show with her
47:43
Speaker 1: and O. J. Simpson. Oh god, what do you say
47:46
Speaker 1: to that if it came down to that, I probably would.
47:50
Speaker 1: I'm okay with myself. I sleep pretty good at night.
47:54
Speaker 1: I'm okay with myself. I sleep pretty good at night.
47:57
Speaker 1: How Cindy does not rest? I do not rest. I
48:01
Speaker 1: don't get a rest all night sleep. I know she
48:02
Speaker 1: hasn't for years. I've seen Kaylee on a couple of occasions.
48:08
Speaker 1: Oh no, I've I've seen her. I've seen her in
48:11
Speaker 1: the flesh. I've seen her in my house. One time
48:16
Speaker 1: she woke me up in the morning to tap one
48:18
Speaker 1: on with her little finger like she used to do.
48:20
Speaker 1: Was this a jojo part? Was this a dream? It
48:23
Speaker 1: wasn't a dream it was. It was like you and
48:25
Speaker 1: I are talking right now, how do you explain the
48:28
Speaker 1: strong spirit that's in our house? Was their imagination? Oh
48:31
Speaker 1: that's not an imagination. That that's that's love, and that's
48:35
Speaker 1: that's a connection that I wish more people could have.
48:38
Speaker 1: Is she a killer? Do you think she intentionally wanted
48:43
Speaker 1: to kill Kayley? I don't think she intentionally wanted to.
48:46
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't think she intentionally wanted to.
48:48
Speaker 1: But but she should. She should be in jail because
48:53
Speaker 1: of Kaylee not being here, and of course Alexis and
48:59
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany. I sure you won't be surprised that people
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Speaker 1: reports top mom Casey Anthony quote rolls her eyes at
49:08
Speaker 1: her parents statements. She couldn't care less, Bethany. She doesn't
49:13
Speaker 1: care at all. In fact, what's interesting is there's not
49:16
Speaker 1: even hatred or anger. There's no feeling at all. And
49:20
Speaker 1: I think that's really what characterizes um Casey Anthony is
49:25
Speaker 1: that she seems so empty. And even now she's she's
49:28
Speaker 1: living with one of the the attorneys that helped defend her,
49:33
Speaker 1: but her life is so small, you know, she just
49:36
Speaker 1: apparently she she lives in this woman's house and does
49:41
Speaker 1: I guess assistant work for her or does her paperwork
49:44
Speaker 1: for her. You know, she's never established herself in the world.
49:47
Speaker 1: She doesn't have a job or a career. She's just
49:50
Speaker 1: sort of languishing out there. It's not that different from
49:53
Speaker 1: her life before Alexis. Are you surprised about the I roll.
49:56
Speaker 1: I'm not at all surprised about the I roll. You know,
49:58
Speaker 1: she is somebody who only cares about herself. And in fact,
50:01
Speaker 1: this has been a crazy year for Casey because she's
50:03
Speaker 1: given multiple interviews. Well, she gave a series of interviews
50:07
Speaker 1: about to the Associated Press, but she said, you know what,
50:10
Speaker 1: I don't have a problem sleeping at night. I don't
50:13
Speaker 1: at all. If something had happened to my child, I
50:15
Speaker 1: probably would never sleep again. Or anybody who has somebody
50:20
Speaker 1: they care about doesn't even have to be a child,
50:21
Speaker 1: just someone that you care about. When something bad happens
50:23
Speaker 1: to them and such a horrific way, how could you
50:26
Speaker 1: ever sleep again? No, Casey's fine, she says, in her
50:28
Speaker 1: own words, you know, I don't have a problem sleeping
50:30
Speaker 1: at night. She cares only about her You know what,
50:33
Speaker 1: just talking about this, I'm going to have a problem
50:35
Speaker 1: sleeping tonight, and you know what, I'm going to sleep
50:38
Speaker 1: in the room with the twins because it worries me now,
50:42
Speaker 1: and when I cover a case like this, all I
50:44
Speaker 1: can think about is then being safe and warm and
50:48
Speaker 1: protected and waking up with a smile on their face.
50:52
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off good bye friend,