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Important Next Steps For The Revelation · Urantia Radio

0:20
Welcome back. How are you?
0:22
Well, thank you and it's great to be here.
0:24
I appreciate it, Jim. The website is UB annotated.com.
0:31
So if people want to, you know, check into the website that way
0:35
on sub stack under my own name, Halbert Katherine or or you do
0:40
the news. That's what I get.
0:42
And yeah, yeah, so those things are, are coming out and, you
0:48
know, I'm trying to just start a new adventure here with outreach
0:54
and with research and, and all of it because I just got into my
0:59
retirement years. And so I got a little bit more
1:02
free time to do things and, and you know, see what kind of
1:08
positive difference I can make. I met Halbert a long time ago.
1:13
We're both long time Urantia book readers.
1:15
We've had a lot of talks on the phone and he had a really great
1:19
sub stack. Speaking of Sub Stack, and it
1:21
was called Faith and Belief First Mysticism, the Paranormal
1:25
and the Tides of Time. And he talks a lot about what's
1:28
happening, making some observations about the Urantia
1:32
book and the movement. And one of the things that you
1:35
raise up in the Substack, and that's what we're going to be
1:37
talking about here, is this this sort of revival and channeling
1:42
and some of the impacts of that. And it's a very well written
1:46
article. Of course it's timely too,
1:49
because you mentioned about the Holy Spirit and how that sort of
1:52
changed everything and and just general observations on the
1:57
Urantia movement itself. How would you define that today?
2:02
What is the Urantia movement to you?
2:04
Well, you know, one of the things that this writing this
2:09
article did for me was to it was an effort to try to get some
2:14
perspective for myself, because the phrase, the word Urantia
2:19
movement, you know, sort of by definition there it, it's
2:23
something that that's moving. So we're trying to define a
2:26
moving target. You know, we hit a moving
2:28
target. So we've got a, a challenge
2:30
right away. And the Urantia book is
2:35
relatively new on the scene of religious movements, and it's
2:41
been definitely evolving and having noteworthy transitions in
2:47
its short career so far. And that means someone who's
2:53
trying to do research and writing and provide study aids
2:58
for the book. I always have to reevaluate who
3:01
am I writing to? Why?
3:03
What's the audience? What's the point?
3:05
What are we doing here? And what I came to most recently
3:11
was just to stand back from it and, and appreciate that when
3:16
Jesus sent the apostles out and the Pentecostal spirit was
3:22
activated for the first time, you know, if you believe it.
3:26
But even if you don't believe it, just on a purely secular
3:30
level, we can observe sociologically that some people
3:34
went out and really changed humanity's culture in a certain
3:39
way with a religious message. It was very powerful and there
3:42
were notable characteristics to it, like non violence and it had
3:50
dramatic repercussions with things like slavery and, you
3:55
know, the social institutions, even though that wasn't
3:58
necessarily part of the theology specifically.
4:01
And it was an actual outworking of it.
4:04
And so the point here is simply that all of it, no matter what
4:09
we believe, are growing up in a world where there's this story
4:16
about some people who changed the world with their spiritual
4:20
religious message. And it's not just a story like
4:23
we can all see that Christianity's had a profound
4:26
impact on global culture at this point.
4:29
So no matter what 1 believes or thinks, just by virtually the
4:34
fact that we're growing up in this world that has this type of
4:38
history, it has an impact on our idealism.
4:43
It has an impact on our goals and values and ambitions and
4:49
what we, you know, think we might accomplish and what's
4:53
possible. And so then with that, you know,
4:57
2000 years of history developing in human consciousness and
5:01
coming up to the modern times, we also have issues where you
5:06
get waves of interest in spirituality.
5:11
We talked about the 60s in particular as a time period in
5:15
the United States and even it extending a bit globally, you
5:20
know, especially in Western culture, so forth, where we
5:24
recognize that people are just activated and passionate and a
5:30
long religious line. And so that creates a certain
5:34
waves pattern, you know, or a blip, you might say, right in in
5:39
the general energy of humanity. And the Urant revelation came
5:46
along just in time to catch that wave, you know, that blip of
5:51
powerful spiritual energy that isn't destined to last.
5:56
So we come out of the 60s movement and we still have a
6:01
community that's excited about a new revelation, but there isn't
6:07
any longer this broader social movement that is just inspiring
6:14
people to get involved in all kinds of different stuff.
6:16
And so that creates a whole new social challenge.
6:20
And it's, I think been very hard for people to adapt to that.
6:25
And one of the things that happens in that void, I think
6:30
is, you know, channeling or other mystical type of things
6:35
start to become interesting because they're new and they're
6:41
interesting, you know, and whatever is getting old and,
6:44
and, and more settled is less interesting to people in certain
6:49
ways. And this is a problem, you know,
6:50
this is like the familiarity breeds contempt type problem
6:55
that we need to be cautious about because when you got an
6:58
ethical revelation that's going to, you know, need to go through
7:03
different social transition periods, you know, it's in order
7:07
for the culture to develop and progress well, it needs to
7:12
wisely ride through and and recognize these different
7:17
phases, you know, otherwise we can get off track.
7:20
And so I started to look at ways, you know, that that was
7:26
happening. And so that that was sort of,
7:29
you know, I guess what we might say the the main thesis of of
7:33
this last writing was, you know, just calling upon all of us to
7:38
kind of take a look at what this revelation really is.
7:41
What are the particulars about it?
7:44
What do we need during this time period?
7:47
To what degree is it a time to till the soil versus harvest?
7:53
You know, these are are real questions.
7:57
And Jesus talked about this in parables that are, you know,
8:01
very important. I mean, because these aspects of
8:06
growth and development and and cycles and ripeness and and
8:10
accelerated periods and and so forth, it's all important.
8:15
Well, life is very much a multi variable calculus.
8:19
And so I think, you know, getting comfortable with it
8:22
really requires doing the math. You know, what is there to do,
8:26
when, why and how. And if we don't stay true to
8:31
that, then, you know, we can easily, you know, get off course
8:35
in certain ways. Yeah, you mentioned in your
8:38
article about the approach of the shamanistic approach to the
8:41
Urantia book. We're citing some examples, you
8:44
know, talking about the Apocrypha of the earlier Ancha
8:47
book in this idea that some of the midway errs continued to
8:51
channel with people that were involved in the book.
8:54
That's one thing that's kind of, you know, been around.
8:57
And I like your point about is like, well, just because there
9:00
might have been some information given to certain people that
9:03
didn't mean that they can now turn around and, and sort of
9:07
walk around as if they have a special connection that the rest
9:10
of us don't have, you know, and that's where it starts to get
9:13
dangerous and shamanistic. You've got people out that are
9:16
claiming they've channeled information and they're talking
9:19
to Melchizedek every week. And, and I don't know about you,
9:22
but I'm kind of a skeptic. I'm not saying that God doesn't
9:26
communicate to people in his own personal way, but this idea
9:30
that, and this is what Sadler was against too, by the way,
9:34
Bill William Sadler definitively stated that the Urantia book was
9:38
not a channeled document. So it's not giving authenticity
9:43
to this idea of spirit spiritism and channeling.
9:48
And you know, do you know what I'm talking about?
9:51
Yeah, I do. Of course it's a challenging the
9:57
conversation because there needed to be these different
10:03
types of interface for the development of the Rancho
10:07
Revelation. So the story goes, I mean, there
10:10
were there was a forum and questions asked about early
10:13
drafts and then you know, more material coming through and it's
10:17
all mysterious how it happened and everything.
10:20
And so, you know, that was it, it's unique process.
10:24
And in that context, right, there was presumably all kinds
10:30
of instructions that were given about how to move forward.
10:34
And, you know, these were apparently meant to be kept
10:39
secret. And they weren't, or at least
10:42
some of them weren't. And when they come up for
10:45
conversation is, you know, part of a a political history and
10:51
with tensions and, and, and these messages, you know, play
10:57
in a certain way to the favor of of those with one agenda versus
11:02
another. Usually in this case, we're
11:04
talking about go fast, go slow, centralized control rather than
11:09
people free to do what they want.
11:11
You know, these sort of classic issues that came up and where it
11:15
play right away. And I don't know how to sort it
11:19
all out, you know, in terms of developing strong beliefs about
11:23
when they stop getting instructive messages or any of
11:29
that stuff. It it it's a very challenging
11:33
type of conversation. I'll say this, that we're seeing
11:37
something that's already played out before and we know about
11:41
this from the life and teachings of Jesus, that the resurrection
11:45
shifted the message of the gospel.
11:48
So where the message became about the resurrected Christ.
11:51
And he had warned against that. He had said, look, spread the
11:54
gospel to everybody. And, and now what we're doing
11:58
here similarly is that we got this book and there's some
12:01
questions about how it came to be, but the focus should not be
12:04
on the book itself, but rather what the book is trying to tell
12:07
us about reality. And, and it's sort of like
12:12
giving advanced calculus to a kindergartner in many ways.
12:15
And that's probably why it takes a long time for people to sort
12:18
of get the book. But the emphasis should always
12:21
be about what the book says, not what the book is or the it's
12:25
divine relationship. That's what I think you and I
12:28
can agree on. And when it deviates from that,
12:30
then it becomes cultish. Then it becomes a group, you
12:34
know, like, you know, that that's the thing that I fear the
12:37
most is that you'll have this, you know, all these cults that
12:40
celebrate a different aspect of the Urantia book because the
12:43
Urantia book is a has divine connections.
12:46
You see what I'm saying? Well, you know, there there's
12:51
the human connections that are purported to exist, but then
12:56
there's the book itself as a connection.
13:01
So I, I, I think it is sort of this twofold aspect.
13:06
There's the beingness of the book, its nature as an epical
13:11
revelation that you can believe it or not.
13:14
And then there's the information in it and what to do with that
13:18
information. And those are are two distinct
13:21
things and I think they're both important.
13:23
And in this case, you know, there were structures set up,
13:27
organizations set up to try to work with and develop a Urantium
13:33
movement, but there was not a priesthood, right?
13:38
There was not a second hand religion type of structure on
13:42
that level. And nor should there have been.
13:45
I mean, I think we want to. Avoid trying to support.
13:47
Religion, right? Well, wrong.
13:50
In other words, for instance, the the Quakers don't have a
13:57
hierarchically based social structure, but they most
14:02
certainly have a religious culture and our religion.
14:07
So you know, the problem is, is with second hand religion
14:12
becoming a predominant aspect of institutional religion through
14:17
priesthood or second hand religion becoming a predominant
14:23
aspect of individual religion through various Mystic practices
14:28
and people just going out and doing their own thing.
14:30
You know, the second hand religion issue is an issue,
14:36
right? And, and so the urant revelation
14:40
as a as a book allows for people to have their direct experience
14:46
with revelation and to create culture around that, that honors
14:52
belief in what the book teaches about its own nature.
14:57
Right. And, and so that's why I, I
14:58
think, you know, there's a beingness to it that is
15:02
absolutely religious. And that is the challenge of our
15:06
day. And that is the challenge of the
15:09
revelation is, you know, to create religiosity anew, to make
15:15
all things new. And and that's a challenge and
15:19
and people want to run away from it more than they that is.
15:25
True, isn't it? They don't.
15:26
They don't want to have a a specific explanation of what
15:31
heaven might be like, because then that would mean you're
15:33
giving yourself in. It's like a no no.
15:36
No, no, I mean, people don't want to create a religious
15:40
organization because it takes a lot of work.
15:42
Oh yeah? Well.
15:43
Right, Right. That's what I mean.
15:45
People in their sense of freedom and individuality, and because a
15:50
direct connection with God is of preeminent importance, it
15:55
becomes very easy to just sort of give up on a more collective
16:02
relationship to it all. And when you've got a new
16:05
ethical revelation that has a message that is not, you know,
16:13
evenly distributed, I guess there's one way to put it.
16:16
It's like the gospel message is a spiritual message that is
16:21
evenly distributed throughout the population.
16:25
It doesn't matter what your background is or much how old
16:30
you were, how you're brought up. It's about simple, Hey, we're
16:33
all children of God. You know, it's like after death,
16:37
it's, it's so simple, OK, but the Urantia revelation is
16:42
absolutely not simple. It's incredibly sophisticated.
16:47
It presumes upon high level of intelligence and understanding
16:54
about human culture and history in order to, you know, get the
17:00
most out of it or even get a reasonable amount out of it at
17:03
times. Well, it's so specific.
17:05
It's it's it's yeah. It is a specific explanation of
17:10
the goings on of the universe in which we exist.
17:13
That's what it is. It and it it provides answers
17:19
for academics, particularly historians who are working in
17:25
the areas of anthropology and archaeology and genetics,
17:31
biology this way, right? You know, just as a math book
17:36
has answers in the back, the Urantia book is like that for
17:42
us, right? And, and it's one of those
17:47
things where even believers want to treat it like an answer book
17:54
rather than a process book. In other words, the answers at
17:59
the back of a math book are there to help you learn the
18:03
process of math and make sure that you're on the right track
18:07
and not screwing up, right. It's not about so you can
18:10
memorize the answer to a particular question on a
18:15
particular test. It's to teach you how to think.
18:18
And you can use or abuse the answers at the back of a math
18:25
book. You know, you can be lazy with
18:27
it or you're truly helpful to yourself with it.
18:31
And I think the arrangement book has the same kind of quality
18:34
about it. You know, people want to just
18:37
sometimes get some reassurance more than they really want to
18:42
struggle with, with the process of it all.
18:45
And all of this is important and for different people at
18:50
different times, you know, and in different ways.
18:52
So where do you see everything headed?
18:54
I mean, do you see a, what are the scenarios that you think
18:58
will play out over the next 100 years, the next 1000 years?
19:01
I mean, it's hard to know, but assuming that we survive the
19:05
current mayhem and we get to some sort of, I don't know,
19:08
reset of some kind. Do you see the Urantia book?
19:11
To me, it seems almost like a, it moves at its own accord.
19:16
You know, it's or it's very organic.
19:18
Yeah, there are groups of people to get together.
19:20
There's conferences all the time.
19:21
But the main bulk of the people that I think are reading it in
19:25
private or they have somebody in their family that they share it
19:28
with. And that's fine.
19:30
And they and they try to put into motion a philosophy of
19:33
living based on what the Urantia book instructs us to do in, in
19:37
specific ways, you know, being connected with God, serving
19:41
other people. It's interesting if you do a if
19:44
if you ask AI to collect certain quotes from the Urantia book
19:49
based on a subject. It's interesting when you read,
19:53
you know, 30 different paragraphs all about prayer and
19:56
they're consistent with one another.
19:58
It's an amazing thing. That's how I think the Urantia
20:00
book will grow. Unlike other religions or
20:04
revelations, I don't think you're going to have the army of
20:07
believers that are going to go out and try to conquer the world
20:10
and convert other people by the sword.
20:13
With this one, I think this one's going to be more like a
20:15
like the Buddhist, the way that Buddhism tradition sort of
20:19
spread as a culture. Do you agree with that?
20:23
No, I think it's a misdirected approach to this revelation.
20:27
In other words, it's focused on religious institutions and
20:33
religious culture, when this revelation is really about
20:38
academic culture. So we're dealing on a religious
20:42
institutional level where the your answer, but kind of teaches
20:48
us to talk about the angels of the churches and the angels of
20:52
progress. And some of these messages, you
20:55
know, from the midway or are purported to be talking about
20:59
how there's a change from the angels of the churches to the
21:03
angels of progress in terms of who's leading the show.
21:06
And we can see how religious institutions in the United
21:11
States are on the decline and that all matches up and
21:15
everything like that. And so it's very easy to, you
21:18
know, pick up on this 60s wave of individual spiritual life
21:26
and, and the gospel message being spread by individuals to
21:29
the four corners of the earth 2000 years ago.
21:33
And, and want to turn the Urantia revelation into some
21:38
type of thing that is in that aspect of human culture as
21:45
compared to academic institutions.
21:49
And this revelation is specifically for our academic
21:53
institutions. So, so you're saying is it, is
21:56
there a critical mass element to it where because right now it's
22:00
still somewhat, you know, under the radar, but the the.
22:06
Before we get to, you know, the Urantra revelation, what it is,
22:10
how it might help, I mean, let's first step back and just notice
22:13
that along with the religious institutions being crushed, you
22:19
know, culturally, for various reasons, academic institutions
22:25
right now are being brought into question in a way that I think
22:31
was a lot less predictable and has happened a lot quicker than
22:35
what we've seen with religious institution.
22:38
And people are trying to find their way through learning
22:42
process and recreate academia because it's it's been falling
22:49
apart in all kinds of you. Spend a lot of time around
22:53
college, right? I mean, and often times I'll be
22:56
talking to you and you would just come back from some, you
22:58
know, event at some college somewhere.
23:00
And, yeah, so, you know, you kind of have a pulse on what's
23:03
happening at that level with younger people.
23:06
Is that what you're you're. So are they deconstructing
23:09
education all together? And is it a good thing, bad
23:12
thing? Tell me, Tell me more.
23:14
Well, I, I think we're, we're seeing everything happen right
23:18
now because it's such a shake up.
23:20
So for instance, on the one hand, we can talk about how
23:25
Harvard University is in the spotlight these days and they've
23:31
got all these DEI stuff going on and issues that really are
23:38
undercutting real education. And you have students being OK,
23:45
let me and then let me just say. So New England, right, is very
23:49
left right and and the academic institutions that have been the
23:53
foundation of our Western culture in the United States
23:58
have gone in a very crazy direction where they're like so
24:02
anti scientific. They became identified with the
24:06
transgender ideology. It's that crazy.
24:09
But at the same time, Charlie Kirk has been whipping up right
24:15
wing Christian activism on campuses and was highly
24:22
effective in recent years was swinging votes among young and
24:30
more educated young people towards Trump right and and and
24:35
the right had a reputation for being less educated than the
24:39
left. But here's Charlie Kirk coming
24:42
along and and drawing big crowds and making a real difference in
24:46
elections. So I want to say that that
24:50
shows, you know, the polarization and the intensity
24:54
of it all shows that we're coming into a new time period, I
24:58
think is really what I want to say about this.
25:00
I think we're needing to look at how does the Urantia revelation
25:05
fit in to this new thing that's happening that is combining
25:11
politics and religion, whereas the 60s movement tended to
25:16
separate them. It was a hotbed is like One
25:20
Direction or the other with it, and this is bringing.
25:23
Together I'll make this observation.
25:25
I think that the last say since the early 60s with all the
25:29
liberation and everything that sort of no, no more rules, you
25:34
know, that that would probably LED as an array against
25:38
Christian thought because Christian thought means you're
25:40
responsible for your decisions and family is important.
25:45
And we've kind of changed that whole paradigm now, especially
25:48
with the divorce rate. So I think what we're seeing now
25:50
with young people is that did they saw what a future looked
25:53
like without religion and they don't like it.
25:57
That's it. And I think people are now
25:59
looking back. So it's a wave of sorts, but
26:02
they've seen what materialism offers.
26:04
And he, despite the fact that we're all so immersed in it,
26:08
certainly with technology, we still feel that we've discovered
26:12
that there's it lacks substance, it lacks meaning.
26:16
You've got people, just as a side note, a Google, I think is
26:21
being sued because their AI developed a relationship through
26:26
one of these apps and the person ended up just shutting
26:30
themselves off completely from society.
26:33
And then of course, we had that bombing in Palm Springs, the IVF
26:37
clinic from a man who just did it because he felt like anybody
26:41
who brings children into this world is, is going to is all
26:44
they're doing is making people suffer.
26:46
And that this world is terrible and and we should stop just
26:49
having kids because it's a terrible, it's a terrible place.
26:53
So these sort of Nietzschean ideologies and young people
26:58
realize that they don't have hope in anything.
27:01
You know, their institutions are not trustworthy.
27:04
So I think this is pushing back and it's pushing people towards
27:07
this idea that maybe there is a God, maybe there is meaning,
27:11
maybe we are here for something important.
27:13
And maybe that's what Charlie Kirk and others like him are
27:15
tapping into. Yes.
27:17
And I, and I hope that there's like a transition in thought
27:23
among the Urantia movement where we can stand up for our
27:28
revelation where I think we've been so reactionary towards
27:33
Christianity that we've ended up going in these mystical
27:37
directions of like teaching mission or Vern Grimsley stuff.
27:43
As I mentioned in in my article, people can check that out.
27:48
But what happened is we looked at Christianity in the 60s and
27:54
and they were the Bible thumpers who denied science and were in
28:00
that regard blind. You know, that blind faith.
28:05
And so this idea about having blind faith and being
28:09
unscientific was a stigma. Right.
28:14
I agree that yeah. And, and, and Urantia book
28:18
readers did not want to be identified with that type of
28:22
cultural stigma. And so it was tricky because the
28:26
last third of the book's all about Jesus.
28:29
So how, how are people going to do this dance in the sixth?
28:32
Well, they're going to do the day by focusing on the
28:35
beautiful, beautiful and lightning story about Jesus and
28:40
even, you know, some of the theological and cosmological
28:44
particulars. But you don't have to worry
28:47
about getting caught up with this book the way Christians do
28:51
with the Bible. Yeah, In your article, you say
28:55
that this book different from the Bible, is that it does try
28:58
to integrate total reality. And whereas the Bible, even
29:03
though what did you say was very clever, the way you said it,
29:06
that even though many of its stories may not be true, there's
29:09
actual fact in their origins. But you I like the way that you
29:14
emphasize that the Urantia book is, is not a narrow approach to
29:18
God. It's it's actually one that is
29:20
consistent with science and right with philosophy.
29:22
Is that a pretty good assessment of what you were saying?
29:26
Yes, and this is where I think that you know, the Urantia
29:29
communities had a very hard time stepping up to this
29:34
extraordinary aspect of the Urantia books credibility.
29:39
You know, there there isn't really a model for saying my
29:47
revelation has an evolutionary aspect to its non human
29:55
credential, right with the Bible, you just believe it's the
30:00
word of God by faith and we're done.
30:02
All right, that's it. OK, with the with the
30:07
uranturism. And, and that wasn't even of
30:10
course, the gospel message. That was a whole diversion from
30:12
it that screwed everything up. Yeah.
30:15
And that kind of goes back to what you were saying in the
30:17
beginning, which is, you know, Christianity has been around for
30:20
a long time. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's
30:23
tethered to the past, which gives it an aura of authority.
30:27
Whereas this just recently came on the scene in historical
30:30
terms. Deal with it, you know.
30:32
Now what do we do? Right.
30:34
And people dealt with it in the way that Christians dealt with
30:41
it or that believers in the gospel message dealt with it or
30:47
had experiences, extraordinary experiences related to it.
30:52
In other words, when that spiritual wave of the 60s came,
30:56
people were ripe and open for believing, right?
31:01
You know, they were all their pump was already primed.
31:06
Everybody's was more or less. That's why it was a movement.
31:10
That was that's why it was a wave of interest in the culture
31:13
at that time. And so people were able to grab
31:17
on to the urant revelation in ways that people grabbed on to,
31:23
you know, being witness to, but that wasn't destined to laugh in
31:29
the same way because this is a different type of revelation and
31:32
it's got other things going on regarding its credibility.
31:35
There is not actually a new Pentecostal spirit related to
31:40
this one. Got it.
31:41
Yeah. Yeah.
31:42
No, that's a very, very good point.
31:44
That's right. But I want to get back to what
31:46
you were saying earlier because it sounded to me like you think
31:50
maybe I'm wrong on this, but it sounds like you think there is
31:53
going to be a significant event in the not too distant future,
31:57
possibly. And that's a relative term
31:59
because it could be 500 years, it could be 100 or even 50.
32:03
But you think that something connective is going to come,
32:06
whether it's a Jesus himself or the second coming or Melchizedek
32:13
or maybe a combination of a couple of different things.
32:15
Is that I've heard you say that before.
32:18
Do you believe that that is more likely to happen and then that
32:21
in that point the Urantia book is almost like a preparatory
32:25
document? Well, I think that this is
32:28
destined to happen and I, I do think sooner rather than later.
32:33
I, I thought it was going to happen with the last eclipse in
32:37
2024. So I was off with that in terms
32:41
of a specific time period of those seven years between the
32:45
eclipses. But as so many Christians and
32:49
Urantia book readers will tell you, just because I didn't have
32:55
it right about the eclipses doesn't mean we're not in the
32:58
midst of a major transition period.
33:01
There's lots of people who, you know, have been saying that and
33:06
in been saying that independently of anything like
33:10
the eclipses or anything like the union treaties which said
33:15
that the Urantia institutions were, you know, in default and
33:20
gave them a date specific to correct.
33:23
Yeah, that was an. Interesting movement too.
33:24
You talk about that. What was the Unity Treaty or the
33:28
Yeah, what was that all about? Well, it just interestingly
33:31
enough, you know, in terms of all the different purported
33:38
communications to come through in the Urantia community that
33:42
were outside the four corners of the revelation but claiming to
33:47
be something special. That one was distinct, you know,
33:53
from the others in in a number of ways.
33:56
One is it was extensive. It came all at 1 and it had
34:01
origins that were parallel to the origins of the Urantia book.
34:07
That is an anonymous source and somebody had to type it up.
34:10
Yeah, it was like AI heard from the guy that was behind the
34:13
letter and and he calls me one day out of the blue.
34:16
I I'll never forget I'm driving down the freeway.
34:18
I'm coming back from I think it was Alabama or somewhere.
34:21
And I get this phone call from this guy in Ocala and he says,
34:24
hey, I had this dream and there's a white goat that was
34:27
born. And I've gotten all these
34:29
revelations and the Urantia book has the the community has to
34:32
come together. And, and he kind of went on a
34:35
little bit and it sounded like he was speaking the truth.
34:38
But I never quite grasp what I guess what he told me was the
34:44
ancients of days have adjudicated the Lucifer
34:47
rebellion and something of that nature.
34:51
It means that everything is going to start changing.
34:53
And that's what I got. Unless we're talking about two
34:56
different stories and then. I think you're different story.
34:59
I think you're talking about Dick Green's story.
35:02
Yeah, possibly, but that wasn't tied to this this.
35:06
Different story. OK, All right, we'll go on with
35:09
yours. But that was fascinating to me
35:10
too. He.
35:11
Was very involved with the eclipses.
35:13
He's the one he told me about the second eclipse and it looked
35:18
that up and studied that and and so I mean you're not like way
35:22
off base with having, you know, thought of him.
35:25
There's all kind of interesting connections there.
35:28
And, and he's, you know, written up and he has a sub stack about
35:32
a vision that he got regarding the adjudication of the Lucifer
35:36
rebellion and, and that, you know, getting wound up in a
35:41
particular way about 10 years ago or almost that.
35:46
And and so there are these things out there, right that
35:50
that, you know, I don't know what to do with them one way or
35:53
the other. But one thing I can tell you is
35:56
we can at least assess them for their nature, what they're
36:00
about, what they're trying to do.
36:03
And that might be enough in order to get where we're going.
36:07
So for instance, the teaching mission, it was a whole cultural
36:11
thing of ongoing revelations and a whole new kind of religious
36:15
experience that people were into.
36:17
So that's not a question about is this particular thing a real
36:24
revelation from the celestial world.
36:27
That's about, hey, do you want to come play?
36:29
We're all having like, you know, our mystical experiences on a
36:33
regular basis. You want to be part of it now
36:36
that's starting like a whole new religion.
36:38
OK. All right.
36:40
Then you've got something like Vern Grimsley's messages and the
36:45
people related to that, which were just a few messages that
36:48
were like, you know, World War Three nuclear bomb stuff, not
36:53
terribly original, right? You know, that fits into a
36:57
certain genre of stuff that happens and it comes and it
37:01
goes, and people tend to lose their careers over varying
37:05
degrees, right? You know they get flacked for
37:09
saying something's going to happen, then it didn't.
37:11
Yeah, we've had a lot of those. That's why I'm always so
37:13
skeptical about it, because, you know, the dead, what is it?
37:16
The the level consciousness, reality.
37:20
It's always safer to take an approach that if it appears to
37:24
be supernatural, it probably isn't.
37:27
You know, God doesn't change his method.
37:32
His method is pretty consistent, slow evolutionary progressive
37:35
growth. And in fact, it states that in
37:38
the very first paper, Part 2 of the book, and in one paragraph,
37:43
it really clearly resonates exactly what this whole program
37:48
is about. And it's not about, you know,
37:50
the sudden revelations do come, but they also come at the end of
37:54
a very long period of time where all of the evolutionary steps
38:00
that would make that revelation appealing had to occur before
38:05
the actual revelation itself. So for example, you know, the
38:08
the 100. Yeah.
38:11
Well, right. What's that?
38:12
Like, I mean, it's important to clarify what you're describing
38:17
is the regular way things work when everything is going well.
38:24
Yeah, when you have rebellions and defaults, then that regular
38:29
ordered evolutionary development with periodic epical revelations
38:34
that are very far apart and, you know, reflect major, you know,
38:39
developments and transition. You know, that's what's so
38:43
challenging for us is that we're just not.
38:47
Sometimes we don't know, You know, if it is.
38:51
Yeah. Well, I, I, it's, it's a it's a
38:54
real honor to be on a planet that has such a interesting path
38:59
because we are an experimental world.
39:02
And boy, are they experimenting. And so are we, you know, And so
39:07
we definitely live in historic times.
39:10
But then again, sometimes it feels good just to be able to
39:13
say it and it makes our own lives feel more important.
39:17
The truth is that like, just look at the way Jesus lived his
39:22
life and try to emulate it. And, and that in itself is
39:27
really the only thing I think that can be expected if anybody
39:31
just go day by day, don't look too far ahead, don't look too
39:35
far back and stay centered on the moment, doing the best that
39:38
you can. And, and, and that's the the
39:41
most godly way to live really, as we saw in the example of
39:45
Jesus's own. Life, one of the things I think
39:48
we're dealing with now is a rubber meets the road sincerity
39:54
issue about spirituality. So there's a lot of different
40:00
ways to look at this. But you know, I'm talking about
40:04
issues of credibility, intellectual integrity, true
40:08
science. We've seen people these days say
40:13
all kind of crazy stuff in the name of love and in the name of
40:18
science, and what we see is the real.
40:23
Credibility is not what's favored over emotion and agenda
40:31
and ideology and all these other things.
40:34
One of the great challenges for myself and other people I've
40:39
seen over the years is we have this tendency to want to think
40:42
that if the truth comes out, then people will change it.
40:47
That that's all that we need because people are good.
40:50
And if you present them the facts, then their behaviors
40:53
will, you know, accommodate that new information and it will have
40:57
a bright new future and everything will be great.
40:59
And it's not true. And we see it all over the
41:03
place. It's not true.
41:04
There's other things driving it that are spiritual, not
41:09
intellectual. So information only goes so far.
41:14
People truly don't care what credibility looks like.
41:19
So in other words, new discoveries verifying the
41:23
history in the rancher revelation and demonstrating its
41:28
celestial authorship that way is not cared about the real
41:33
revolution. We need to see if you want to
41:36
call it that. I don't think that's probably a
41:39
good word, but the, the, the shift or the wave of true
41:45
religiosity that we need to see is going to have to be congruent
41:50
between spirit and mind, our religiosity and our intellectual
41:58
integrity and our sciences. And I don't know exactly what
42:03
it, you know, takes to make that happen.
42:07
It's a very strange thing. It's a little bit like trying to
42:11
teach someone math, you know what I mean?
42:15
You know, it's one of those things where until the Urantia
42:19
Revelation is respected for the type of credibility that it
42:25
offers and the type of help that it offers along with that
42:29
credibility, then we're going to end up with people doing all
42:35
kind of other things to splash for and what it looks like and
42:43
how it's way cool. And whether it's people into
42:46
their UFO stuff or whether it's channeling stuff or whether
42:52
whatever they're into, you know, what it is not is hey, here's
42:58
our our world history. They could truly get everyone on
43:02
the same page. It's written by celestials.
43:05
Until we care about that, you know we're going to do.
43:09
Yeah, no, right. It has to remain credible.
43:13
And if it starts shooting off into this era of mysticism and
43:17
as you say, shamanism, that actually is going to work
43:20
against the Uranto book. It should never be perceived as
43:22
a mystical experience or a supernatural.
43:25
It's got to be grounded in in comprehensive reality.
43:28
It's got to be a matter of fact. It's got to make the universe
43:32
look intelligent. And right now, by the way, I'm
43:34
seeing a lot of work that Stephen Meyer is doing out some
43:37
of the stuff that's the and, and what he is trying to do is the
43:41
the concept is that the mind preceded matter.
43:44
The mind, the matter is a result of mind planning.
43:48
And that's a big jump in scientific communities right now
43:52
because up until recently, everybody assumed there was just
43:55
a Big Bang and that was it and accidental or unintentional
43:59
causation. But now at least scientists are
44:01
starting to grapple with maybe there is something going on
44:04
here. Maybe the universe is logical.
44:07
So anyway, any closing thoughts? You know that that's not really
44:11
what the Urantia book has to offer.
44:14
It has to offer history. What our world desperately needs
44:18
right now is not a clear and convincing explanation of how
44:23
the universe started locally billions of years ago.
44:28
What we really need is a common belief about how humanity
44:33
evolved over the last few 100,000 years, how the races
44:38
develop, what's the nature of our genetic diversity and
44:44
evolutionary destiny. This is where the rubber meets
44:48
the road. This is what the Branch
44:50
Revelation has to offer. And people don't really want to
44:56
talk about that, but that's what's desperately needed in the
45:00
world. That's why we had the whole DEI
45:01
craziness going on. Right, Right.
45:03
No, you're absolutely right. And it's funny because I've
45:05
recently started reading part three from the beginning and it
45:09
is, it is kind of, yeah, I totally agree with you.
45:11
I think that actually right now probably has more value to the
45:15
reader at large than anything in Part 2 and Part 1, the third
45:19
part of the book. If everybody, if they taught
45:21
that in school, for every kid to read and absorb, we would have a
45:25
completely different all of this racial stigma stuff would go
45:29
right out the door. And we would really feel
45:31
connected to humanity all over the world.
45:36
Everyone's story would be our story.
45:39
You know, that that that's what's so desperately needed on
45:42
a spiritual level is that we can plainly see that when people
45:46
talk politics, they don't talk about it from the perspective of
45:52
this is my story, this, this is our collective story about
45:58
humanity there. There's always a side to be
46:01
picked. And this is what we're trying to
46:03
transcend on a spiritual level in order to learn how to be good
46:09
citizens and to live peacefully with each other.
46:12
Yeah, hey, there's a little bit of sangig in all of us, you
46:14
know. Yeah, exactly.
46:16
We need to get a sense of of our our collective history and our
46:20
collective destiny in order to do that.
46:22
Otherwise, we are left with all manner of nationalistic,
46:27
tribalistic behaviors. Yeah, it's really good to catch
46:33
up with you. And I thank you again for for
46:35
coming on the program. Thank you, Jim.