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SMNTY Classics: Bessie Coleman · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to staff.
0:07
Speaker 1: I've never told you compreection of iHeart radio. Samantha, did
0:19
Speaker 1: you watch any of the Winter Olympics. No, I've only
0:22
Speaker 1: seen highlights through the social media's m h. I'm a
0:26
Speaker 1: bad Olympic watcher. That's fine. I don't know. I don't
0:30
Speaker 1: think that's a problem. I mean, it's not your thing.
0:35
Speaker 1: I know that these Olympics, uh were I didn't have
0:41
Speaker 1: a lot of viewership. I guess we'll say I did
0:44
Speaker 1: watch them on and off. I got to enjoy some
0:49
Speaker 1: some of ice skating, and randomly I got into curling.
0:54
Speaker 1: I actually watched that in person in Canada. Did you really?
0:58
Speaker 1: I did. It was very intresting, okay, and I don't
1:03
Speaker 1: know why I got so into it, but I was like, yes,
1:09
Speaker 1: so we want to come back. There's been a lot
1:11
Speaker 1: of news in the world of sports lately, UM around
1:17
Speaker 1: women women's soccer here in the US. UM also, as always,
1:23
Speaker 1: the Olympics was marred with a lot of controversies around
1:28
Speaker 1: race and around LGBTQ plus stuff. And I just got
1:34
Speaker 1: to thinking when I was watching the ice skating, like
1:37
Speaker 1: there was a non binary competitor but I just got
1:41
Speaker 1: in my head like this is so it's still very heteronormative,
1:46
Speaker 1: Like it's very here's this very feminine outfit for the
1:51
Speaker 1: the woman who's ice skating at a very vasculine outfits
1:55
Speaker 1: are like more masculine for the male. So there was
1:57
Speaker 1: also out that that wasn't the only uniform controversy that happened,
2:01
Speaker 1: but that was just when I was watching it. I
2:03
Speaker 1: was kind of like, huh huh, yeah, so we want
2:09
Speaker 1: to come back and talk about that. But in light
2:12
Speaker 1: of a lot of the conversations that are happening around that,
2:16
Speaker 1: we did want to bring back another female first that
2:19
Speaker 1: we've done with Eves around the excitement of someone accomplishing
2:25
Speaker 1: something with Bessie Coleman, which I have actually been thinking about.
2:32
Speaker 1: We've been flying a lot lately, so I got a
2:34
Speaker 1: lot of thoughts in they're all over the place, Samantha.
2:37
Speaker 1: But in the spirit of that, we thought we would
2:40
Speaker 1: bring back this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and
2:48
Speaker 1: Samantha and welcome to Stephane Never Told You production of
2:50
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. And today we're doing another female first,
3:03
Speaker 1: which means we are once again joined by our good
3:06
Speaker 1: friend and co worker, Eve's welcome eaves. Hey y'all. Always
3:11
Speaker 1: a pleasure, so happy to have you. Um, how how
3:15
Speaker 1: are you doing? What's up? I feel okay right now.
3:18
Speaker 1: I'm like trying to make sure that I assessed that
3:20
Speaker 1: question correctly every time somebody asked me. Okay, Like it's
3:24
Speaker 1: been pretty dreary for these last couple of days um
3:27
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, But I mean it's nice. You know, I've
3:31
Speaker 1: still gotten some hammock time in and me I'm doing
3:35
Speaker 1: what I can with the tools that I have. Did
3:38
Speaker 1: you do the read aloud? I know you did all
3:40
Speaker 1: Instagram story about and I'm trying to keep keep up.
3:45
Speaker 1: Make sure I wanted to be a part of that.
3:46
Speaker 1: I think I'm missing it. I missed it. You did
3:48
Speaker 1: not miss it. Okay. So backstory here is that I
3:51
Speaker 1: come across all sorts of like really racist and all
3:54
Speaker 1: the books and like whenever I find one that's particularly
3:56
Speaker 1: strange or like funny, um, I like just like take
4:00
Speaker 1: pictures in them sometimes. And there's this one like that's
4:03
Speaker 1: about the old self, and it's like about the like
4:07
Speaker 1: Confederacy and and and all those good things. You heard
4:11
Speaker 1: it here. I I recorded the I did record it.
4:14
Speaker 1: I did do the dramatic reading, but I need to
4:17
Speaker 1: edit it, okay, So I gotta I gotta get in
4:21
Speaker 1: premiere edited and then I will post it. Okay, all right,
4:23
Speaker 1: so be on the lookout. You better be following a
4:27
Speaker 1: Us on Instagram. I'm so you can get that, because
4:29
Speaker 1: I'm I'm quite excited. Yeah. To be honest, like Andy,
4:33
Speaker 1: you asked me, how I am like that's one of
4:35
Speaker 1: the things that gives me joy, Like as long as
4:36
Speaker 1: I'm able to continue creating things that I just like
4:39
Speaker 1: I want to create, like I have absolutely no reason
4:41
Speaker 1: to do it, but like so much crap is going
4:43
Speaker 1: on in the world right now that like if I
4:45
Speaker 1: can continue like storytelling and creating and like making odd
4:50
Speaker 1: things that fulfill me in ways that have nothing to
4:52
Speaker 1: do with work, then I feel a lot better. So right, well,
4:56
Speaker 1: I'm excited. Like I said, like I needed I need
4:59
Speaker 1: to know my dad. That's I didn't missen. I have
5:02
Speaker 1: a whole I have a whole, a whole thing comic.
5:04
Speaker 1: It's going to have like stock video and if I
5:12
Speaker 1: if I decided to have enough fun with it, I'll
5:14
Speaker 1: probably do it some more because I have more awful
5:15
Speaker 1: books than I'm sure I could pull something out of
5:18
Speaker 1: and hopefully well it's not like anybody would care about
5:21
Speaker 1: it anyway, but it's not my work, so technically it's
5:25
Speaker 1: probably violating something. But okay, yeah, so don't don't tell us, yes, listener,
5:29
Speaker 1: don't tell those public podcasts right on this, on this
5:36
Speaker 1: extremely public podcast, we're literally telling thousands of people that
5:39
Speaker 1: this thing is happening. Well, what I was gonna say is,
5:41
Speaker 1: I don't think there's much of a cross section with
5:43
Speaker 1: your audience versus like really right for the South and
5:47
Speaker 1: the Confederacy. I don't think so wrong podcast, if that's okay.
5:55
Speaker 1: So yes, well that's exciting and I'm excited. Did I
6:01
Speaker 1: love a good dramatic reading and I'm excited to hear
6:04
Speaker 1: your dramatic reading voice, Eves. I think I've heard it before,
6:08
Speaker 1: but I love it solid. I really hope there's a
6:11
Speaker 1: lot of Southern accident into it, like it, oh god,
6:15
Speaker 1: you have the Antebellum Southern accident happening in there, because
6:18
Speaker 1: I know it's really bad. It's a really bad accent.
6:22
Speaker 1: I did do an accent and it's awful. So it's
6:25
Speaker 1: really like it's bad. Like I was my like my
6:29
Speaker 1: husband was helping me out with it, and he was like, oh,
6:31
Speaker 1: like you know, I was like, how have I lived
6:34
Speaker 1: in the South for so long? And like not like
6:39
Speaker 1: I don't know how to do a Southern accent. I'm
6:41
Speaker 1: like I am. I was born in Columbia, South Carolina
6:44
Speaker 1: and raised in Georgia, and somehow, somehow I was still
6:48
Speaker 1: do a caricature of the Southern accident. Like I don't know,
6:50
Speaker 1: I am the same, I am the exact same, And
6:53
Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll get called in for auditions
6:56
Speaker 1: where they want a Southern accident and what I think
6:58
Speaker 1: they mean is actually not a other actually just like
7:00
Speaker 1: the TV version of a Southern But I can't even
7:03
Speaker 1: do that, Like I just sound ridiculous. So I hear you.
7:06
Speaker 1: All you have to do is get me on my
7:08
Speaker 1: phone with my mother and in the that there it is,
7:12
Speaker 1: and it's not it's not cute Southern accident. There's no
7:15
Speaker 1: Southern bell. It is Southern Appalachian mountain. And if you
7:20
Speaker 1: get me going with my parents, it gets a lot worse.
7:23
Speaker 1: It's really funny because I'm the immigrant of this group here,
7:25
Speaker 1: like I came when I was seven, eight, like seven
7:27
Speaker 1: years old, eight years old from Korea, I'm the one
7:29
Speaker 1: that's got the stick access somehow you're graced with it.
7:35
Speaker 1: I will say that. I just say I do declare,
7:40
Speaker 1: and that's all I've got there. It is, so you're welcome, listeners.
7:46
Speaker 1: Maybe one day we'll just do bad Southern Access throughout
7:48
Speaker 1: and then we'll lose all of our listeners. Um, but
7:53
Speaker 1: not today, not today. I am so excited about the
7:57
Speaker 1: story you brought for this one, ease. It is just amazing,
8:01
Speaker 1: an amazing story. So who did you bring for us today?
8:05
Speaker 1: We're gonna be talking about Bessie Coleman, who was an
8:08
Speaker 1: aviator or a via tricks as they still love to
8:11
Speaker 1: ginger things. Um, that's what they called her. So yeah,
8:14
Speaker 1: she was the first Black American woman and Native American
8:17
Speaker 1: woman to earn a pilot's license. And she made away
8:20
Speaker 1: just like so many people that we talk about here
8:23
Speaker 1: who are pioneering, um, women like made away where there
8:27
Speaker 1: was no way before them. And that's definitely what Bessie
8:30
Speaker 1: Coleman did. Yeah. And and to hint to tease at
8:34
Speaker 1: what's to come, the way she got into piloting I
8:38
Speaker 1: related to so much and I was like, oh, this
8:41
Speaker 1: is I would have been friends with you really, Okay,
8:46
Speaker 1: so we have to hear about it when the time comes. Yeah,
8:49
Speaker 1: I mean essentially it's sibling rivalry rights, you know, just
8:55
Speaker 1: a small bit, like she had to be a big
8:57
Speaker 1: influence to Amelia Earhart. Like when I was reading the timeline,
9:01
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, dang, Like even though that's the
9:04
Speaker 1: that's the bigger name, she predates and did some amazing
9:08
Speaker 1: things before Amelia actually became a part of this group.
9:11
Speaker 1: So I was like, ha, she's a trend setter. Definitely.
9:15
Speaker 1: I think everything that that people have brought up and
9:18
Speaker 1: talking about her story and that it can come to
9:21
Speaker 1: be seen after, you know, we talked about her story
9:23
Speaker 1: and everything is that she might not have gotten as
9:26
Speaker 1: much recognition as she earned um during her lifetime from
9:31
Speaker 1: the people who there were people who supported her and
9:33
Speaker 1: who encouraged her. But um, a lot of the commemoration
9:37
Speaker 1: of her came after her lifetime, even though that she
9:40
Speaker 1: was a trailblazer and a pioneer while she was alive.
9:43
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, shall we get into it.
9:49
Speaker 1: Let's do it? Cool? Cool. So she was born January nine,
9:54
Speaker 1: two in Atlanta, Texas. She was one of thirteen children,
9:57
Speaker 1: Though some of those children didn't survive through childhood. Her
10:01
Speaker 1: parents were George and Susan Coleman, and her mother was
10:05
Speaker 1: a domestic worker. Her father was a sharecropper, and her
10:09
Speaker 1: father was also part Black and Native American. So when
10:13
Speaker 1: she was around two years old, her father moved the
10:16
Speaker 1: family to Waxahachie, Texas. So there he bought a little
10:19
Speaker 1: bit of land around a quarter acre, and he built
10:22
Speaker 1: a home for them. But in nineteen o one, her
10:25
Speaker 1: father decided to move back to a reservation in Oklahoma,
10:29
Speaker 1: his home state. And the way they presented is like
10:33
Speaker 1: you know, he was dealing with obviously, as so many
10:35
Speaker 1: black people were in the South, um dealing with a
10:38
Speaker 1: lot of racism, dealing with discrimination, and he wanted to
10:41
Speaker 1: make a better way for himself. So he went out
10:43
Speaker 1: there to the reservation. He moved without his family to
10:47
Speaker 1: hopefully hopefully there's it's like you can't escape it, like
10:51
Speaker 1: literally anywhere in the world, but hopefully faceless discrimination. And
10:55
Speaker 1: the family state in Texas. So Bessie went to a
10:59
Speaker 1: segregate did one room school house as a child, and
11:02
Speaker 1: she had to walk four miles to get to school.
11:05
Speaker 1: And I feel like I hear this so often. Like
11:08
Speaker 1: I also feel like I'm pretty privileged as a suburban
11:11
Speaker 1: quite who could get on the bus in a certain time,
11:13
Speaker 1: you know, and like go to school. But I hear
11:16
Speaker 1: so many stories from my family, you know, from other
11:18
Speaker 1: people's families talking about I walked to this dirt road,
11:21
Speaker 1: this mine miles and it took me this long to
11:23
Speaker 1: get to school. And I'm like, I'm staying at home.
11:26
Speaker 1: But it's like that that that's the case for so
11:29
Speaker 1: many people back then, um, and also the case for
11:33
Speaker 1: just other people who have long tricks, you know, to
11:36
Speaker 1: be able to get to have an education. When when
11:39
Speaker 1: that even comes to like having to get on this
11:41
Speaker 1: bus to go to this bus, to go to this bus.
11:43
Speaker 1: But anyway, and that's one of those like, you know,
11:45
Speaker 1: I feel like really storied things to the say, this
11:49
Speaker 1: person walk this mini miles to get to school. But
11:51
Speaker 1: that is what she did. And once she got to school,
11:53
Speaker 1: she was kind of known for being good at math,
11:56
Speaker 1: and her mother picked cotton. Um, she watched laundry. Over
12:01
Speaker 1: those years, she had really a lot of domestic work jobs. Um.
12:05
Speaker 1: She did that to support the family, and Bessie would
12:08
Speaker 1: help out in those ways, and she would also run
12:10
Speaker 1: the household when her mom was at work. Sometimes she
12:13
Speaker 1: even missed school to help take care of her younger siblings.
12:16
Speaker 1: And yeah, so that work, you know, taking care of family,
12:21
Speaker 1: raising family. Um, all of that, you know, to be
12:24
Speaker 1: able to make a living and also to live with
12:27
Speaker 1: some sort of comfort at the time were things that
12:29
Speaker 1: she grew up. And we don't have to I mean,
12:32
Speaker 1: obviously I don't want to make any assumptions, but like
12:35
Speaker 1: this was a certain time in the United States. This
12:37
Speaker 1: was the early nineteen hundreds, um, late eighteen hundreds, early
12:41
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds. So obviously discrimination, racial trauma, racism, like all
12:47
Speaker 1: of that was part of the environment that she grew
12:49
Speaker 1: up in. UM. So, yeah, so she started saving money
12:52
Speaker 1: through her work to further her education, and in nineteen
12:56
Speaker 1: Tannis she enrolled in a preparatory school at the agricult
13:00
Speaker 1: Trull and Normal University in Langston, Oklahoma. So she was
13:04
Speaker 1: there for like a semester and she ran out of
13:08
Speaker 1: money pretty quickly, so she left the school, went back
13:12
Speaker 1: to Texas, started doing loundry to be able to make
13:15
Speaker 1: money and support herself. But after a few years, she
13:19
Speaker 1: decided to leave life as a domestic worker and she
13:23
Speaker 1: joined her brother Walter in Chicago. So this is around
13:26
Speaker 1: the time you were talking about she was getting some
13:28
Speaker 1: of that influence from her brothers who were coming back
13:31
Speaker 1: from more who were telling all these stories about France
13:34
Speaker 1: and about the things that women had in France. I
13:37
Speaker 1: wasn't thinking about, well, a little bit like aviation may
13:40
Speaker 1: have come into some in some ways to influence her,
13:43
Speaker 1: her reading about it, her brother's telling her about it.
13:45
Speaker 1: But when she got to Chicago, she first pursued like manicuring.
13:50
Speaker 1: She trained as a manicurist, took a job at a
13:53
Speaker 1: barber shop and did manicure. Is there but these brothers
14:00
Speaker 1: who had come back from the military, we're really influencing her.
14:03
Speaker 1: So while she was working as a man of curist,
14:06
Speaker 1: when her brothers came back, you know, talking all these
14:08
Speaker 1: things about what it's like overseas and teasing her about
14:11
Speaker 1: her job and saying that women in France has so
14:14
Speaker 1: many more opportunities, but like black women didn't have those
14:17
Speaker 1: opportunities in the US. Women in France could fly, and
14:21
Speaker 1: black women in the US would never be able to fly.
14:24
Speaker 1: And so she was getting influence in that way from
14:26
Speaker 1: all these stories and so like as you said, Annie, um,
14:29
Speaker 1: you said you have something similar happened to you. What
14:32
Speaker 1: is what's that about? Oh? Oh, oh my gosh. Well,
14:35
Speaker 1: I just relate so much too sibling rivalry because I
14:39
Speaker 1: have two brothers and we just, oh, we were very
14:45
Speaker 1: very competitive. I usually didn't play all these pranks, but
14:48
Speaker 1: they played a lot of pranks on me. But I've
14:50
Speaker 1: I've often said, for better or worse, I'm somehow I
14:55
Speaker 1: would say I'm kind, but I'm very spiteful and so
15:00
Speaker 1: like if someone told me, if one of my brothers
15:02
Speaker 1: was like, you're never going to be able to do this,
15:05
Speaker 1: I don't care if I want to do it or not.
15:07
Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna do it, like I just I have
15:11
Speaker 1: many instances of things that I've learned are like hobbies
15:16
Speaker 1: that I picked up, are skills that I did because
15:20
Speaker 1: my brothers told me I couldn't do it, and they
15:23
Speaker 1: would play like that, you know, girls can't do that
15:27
Speaker 1: kind of thing, and I'd be like, nope, I will
15:30
Speaker 1: do It's exactly. You also were good at math growing up,
15:34
Speaker 1: So I feel like this is one more part of
15:35
Speaker 1: the story. Yeah, good friends, maybe schoolmates. I related to
15:42
Speaker 1: your so much. I was like, yep, I will learn
15:45
Speaker 1: a language, I will go to a different country spoiler alert.
15:50
Speaker 1: I just I love that so much that she's like
15:53
Speaker 1: her brothers are like, oh, you can't do it here,
15:56
Speaker 1: and she's like, oh really. That's also her attitude and everything,
16:02
Speaker 1: not just against her brother just like society itself. She's like,
16:05
Speaker 1: watch me, I will go to great lengths to prove
16:08
Speaker 1: you wrong. Yeah, definitely, that's cool. I like that that
16:12
Speaker 1: connection is there. We have some more of this amazing
16:17
Speaker 1: story for you listeners, but first we have a quick
16:18
Speaker 1: break for words from our sponsor and we're back. Thank
16:34
Speaker 1: you sponsor. So yeah, like an he said, she did
16:37
Speaker 1: decide to pursue a career in aviation. She wanted to
16:41
Speaker 1: learn how to fly. She wanted to get a pilot's license,
16:44
Speaker 1: and obviously there wasn't precedent for that for black women
16:47
Speaker 1: in the United States at the time, and it was
16:49
Speaker 1: still really early for white women in the United States
16:52
Speaker 1: as well. There were white women aviators, um and it
16:55
Speaker 1: was in nineteen eleven when Harriet Quimby became the first
16:58
Speaker 1: American woman to and a pilot's license. She was a
17:01
Speaker 1: white woman, but women pilots were still few and far between,
17:06
Speaker 1: and there weren't any black American women who had a
17:09
Speaker 1: pilot's license yet. She applied to aviation schools um but
17:15
Speaker 1: her applications in the US were rejected because they didn't
17:20
Speaker 1: want to teach a black woman. There was Robert s
17:23
Speaker 1: Abbott who comes up in her story as a person
17:26
Speaker 1: who was a benefactor who supports her and encourages her
17:29
Speaker 1: throughout her journey to become an a via tricks. You
17:33
Speaker 1: know what I'm I'm using gendered a via tricks here
17:36
Speaker 1: just because I like the way it sounds. I'm not like,
17:40
Speaker 1: it sounds like a different thing than aviator, Like aviatrix
17:44
Speaker 1: sounds like you're doing you're above, Like it's a step
17:47
Speaker 1: above aviator or something. It's like the academic version. Yeah,
17:53
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like it's like the investorship
17:55
Speaker 1: that's beyond just knowing aviation. I created this, ever, minds
18:00
Speaker 1: me of Dominatrix too, so that I'm choosing to flip
18:03
Speaker 1: back and forth between word just a hit. So. He
18:08
Speaker 1: was the editor and publisher of the newspaper The Chicago Defender,
18:11
Speaker 1: which was a black newspaper. He was black, and he
18:14
Speaker 1: was friends with her, supported her, and she told him
18:18
Speaker 1: about her dream of becoming an aviator, and he really
18:20
Speaker 1: supported that, and he suggested that she learned French and
18:24
Speaker 1: applied to flying schools in France, and she did just that.
18:27
Speaker 1: She saved her money, she got money from people to
18:30
Speaker 1: help finance her goal of going overseas to learn to fly.
18:34
Speaker 1: And then in November of nineteen twenties she left the
18:36
Speaker 1: US went to Europe when an ocean liner and once
18:39
Speaker 1: she got to France, she enrolled at a school of aviation.
18:43
Speaker 1: There she learned to fly under French and German instructors
18:48
Speaker 1: and she learned to fly a Newport Type eight two biplane.
18:52
Speaker 1: So they were rough. Obviously these were early years. There
18:55
Speaker 1: wasn't a steering wheel or brakes, just to like big
18:58
Speaker 1: wooden stick to control the plane and a rudder bar
19:01
Speaker 1: under the pilot's feet. And yeah, she went through school
19:05
Speaker 1: and she got her pilots license on June from the
19:10
Speaker 1: World Air Sports Federation and that enabled her to fly
19:13
Speaker 1: around the world. So that's her first you know, she
19:17
Speaker 1: she does that in a different country and when she
19:20
Speaker 1: gets back to the US, there is a little bit
19:22
Speaker 1: of press about her. But as she's over there, you know,
19:24
Speaker 1: who knows what's going on? Um in the US. But
19:28
Speaker 1: at this point, that's when she becomes the first black
19:30
Speaker 1: American woman to get a pilots license. She spent a
19:33
Speaker 1: couple more months in France before she did go back
19:35
Speaker 1: to the US getting some more flying lessons. But she
19:39
Speaker 1: returned in September, and there were black newspapers and industry
19:43
Speaker 1: journals that wrote about her. They had they touted her
19:47
Speaker 1: as the first black woman to become an aviator. Um.
19:51
Speaker 1: I love again with the wording, like they had headlines
19:56
Speaker 1: like first Negress aviatrix and reported that she planned to
20:03
Speaker 1: start exhibition flying in the US pretty soon. But you know,
20:07
Speaker 1: she realized she couldn't make like how am I going
20:09
Speaker 1: to make money from flying? Now that I know how
20:11
Speaker 1: to fly? Which is always the thing, um and I
20:13
Speaker 1: love that she just like without abandoned, like went for it,
20:17
Speaker 1: you know, and was like got back. I was like, oh, no,
20:19
Speaker 1: I need to figure out how the hell I'm gonna
20:21
Speaker 1: make money from this. But yeah, so she realized that
20:24
Speaker 1: she had to become a barn stormer to make money flying,
20:29
Speaker 1: and so barn storming was something that was popular in
20:32
Speaker 1: the US in the twenties, in the nineteen twenties, and
20:37
Speaker 1: that's when pilots would perform stunts on airplanes. That this
20:42
Speaker 1: kind of came about with planes specifically, because after World
20:46
Speaker 1: War ended, there was all these pilots who were trying
20:49
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to make money. Now they
20:51
Speaker 1: had they wanted to figure out what to do with
20:52
Speaker 1: this thing that they love how to do um and
20:55
Speaker 1: the US also had surplus airplanes. So they would go
20:58
Speaker 1: to rural areas and they would do stunts and air
21:00
Speaker 1: shows and they would make a little money through that.
21:03
Speaker 1: They would fly through barn doors, they will walk on
21:05
Speaker 1: airplane wings, and of course, over time, you know, things
21:08
Speaker 1: became more daredevili like the stakes were up and they're like, oh,
21:13
Speaker 1: this is enough of flying on airplane wings. You know,
21:15
Speaker 1: now it's time to parachute. You know, all this stuff
21:17
Speaker 1: and became pretty competitive. Um and it was an area
21:21
Speaker 1: that was open to women and to black people in
21:23
Speaker 1: the US. And so this meant that obviously not meaning
21:27
Speaker 1: that there were no impediments you know, to being able
21:29
Speaker 1: to become to be able to fly. I mean she
21:32
Speaker 1: went to a different country. So but this meant that
21:37
Speaker 1: Bessie would need more lessons. So she went back to
21:41
Speaker 1: Europe learned more in the Netherlands, France, and Germany, and
21:44
Speaker 1: she stayed there for some months and then was back
21:46
Speaker 1: in the US by August of nineteen she made her
21:49
Speaker 1: first appearance in an air show in New York and
21:52
Speaker 1: Long Island that was sponsored by the Chicago Defender. There
21:56
Speaker 1: was an article about the event that said she was
21:59
Speaker 1: quote the great flyer of her sex in the world,
22:03
Speaker 1: which um was the both statement. But yeah, they kind
22:08
Speaker 1: of played up the event, you know, like needed to
22:11
Speaker 1: get people to come, as you often needed to do
22:13
Speaker 1: in fields that was that were so competitive. There were
22:16
Speaker 1: other pilots in the show and she soon went to
22:19
Speaker 1: Chicago to perform again. She did stuff, stunts and tricks
22:24
Speaker 1: in her flying like figure eight, She did loops and
22:28
Speaker 1: other kinds of tricks, and as she did exhibition flights,
22:32
Speaker 1: there were more newspaper articles on her, and of course
22:36
Speaker 1: something like press is important and creating, you know, the
22:41
Speaker 1: mystique around you and gaining an audience to be able
22:44
Speaker 1: to have spectators at your events, especially as a black woman. Um,
22:49
Speaker 1: obviously God like to say this even is like this
22:53
Speaker 1: is this is what happened so often. But but the
22:55
Speaker 1: novelty and being the black woman was part of her story.
22:59
Speaker 1: But yeah, to attract attention and to pick up press,
23:02
Speaker 1: she still had to play her character up. So the
23:04
Speaker 1: black press printed a lot of praise about her, but
23:07
Speaker 1: their mainstream, white owned press still didn't give her as
23:10
Speaker 1: much attention. So Flying trying to make away there figured
23:15
Speaker 1: out how she was going to sustain her life and
23:17
Speaker 1: be able to put food on her table through that,
23:19
Speaker 1: but she did at one point decided to branch off
23:24
Speaker 1: into acting. She was offered a role in a film
23:28
Speaker 1: called Shadow and Sunshine UM that would be produced by
23:32
Speaker 1: the African American Seminal Film Company, and she did accept
23:35
Speaker 1: but she ended up backtracking on that acceptance and turning
23:40
Speaker 1: down the role because basically she wasn't here for the
23:45
Speaker 1: role that it was the opening scene. She was going
23:46
Speaker 1: to be in raggedy clothes, she was gonna have a
23:49
Speaker 1: walking stick and a pack, and that kind of depiction
23:52
Speaker 1: of this like wide I like ignorant, you know, type
23:56
Speaker 1: of girls showing up in New York. She wasn't here for.
23:59
Speaker 1: She ond degrading, and she didn't want to do the
24:02
Speaker 1: quote unquote Uncle Tom's stuff is what she said. Um.
24:06
Speaker 1: And there were people at Billboard and at the film
24:08
Speaker 1: company who denounced her. She there was a film critic
24:12
Speaker 1: and a calumnist, J Jackson, who said, quote miss Coleman
24:15
Speaker 1: is originally from Texas and some of her Southern dialect
24:18
Speaker 1: and mannerism still cling to her. He also said that
24:22
Speaker 1: the actor replacing her was experienced and has quote unmistakable culture.
24:28
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so um, clearly that drew a rift between
24:33
Speaker 1: her and the producers, and that pitted her as the angry,
24:38
Speaker 1: the out of line black woman, you know, who wasn't
24:40
Speaker 1: respectable or smart enough, wasn't polite enough, wasn't you know,
24:44
Speaker 1: good enough, and like it was unnecessary for her to
24:50
Speaker 1: act the way that she did, even if she felt
24:52
Speaker 1: that that was something that she had to do on principle.
24:56
Speaker 1: So yeah, she didn't get another film role after that. Um,
24:59
Speaker 1: that could have made her a lot of money, which
25:02
Speaker 1: is something that she needed, Like that comes up a
25:04
Speaker 1: lot in her life. Well of course, like we all
25:08
Speaker 1: need money, but like you know, to be able to
25:10
Speaker 1: fulfill her dreams, that could have been something a path
25:13
Speaker 1: for her to be able to sustain herself better than
25:15
Speaker 1: just like a mode of living that meant, you know,
25:18
Speaker 1: I can live, but there is no comfort and I
25:20
Speaker 1: can't necessarily fulfill out my dreams. But that was okay.
25:23
Speaker 1: You know, she had other goals too. She still, of
25:26
Speaker 1: course loved flying, and she was fulfilled in that way.
25:31
Speaker 1: But she also wanted to open a flight school for
25:34
Speaker 1: black students, and she needed the money, so she worked
25:37
Speaker 1: for Coast Tire and Rubber Company in California. She used
25:41
Speaker 1: that money she made to purchase the biplane because she
25:44
Speaker 1: also wanted to own her own plane. UM and she did.
25:47
Speaker 1: She she achieved that it was an old Curtis j
25:51
Speaker 1: N four that was four hundred dollars. Here's a part
25:55
Speaker 1: of her character, like she often lied and exaggerated her story,
26:00
Speaker 1: you know, to kind of up her appearance and you know,
26:04
Speaker 1: make things look better on her end. And she told
26:08
Speaker 1: reporters when she got that as she ordered three planes
26:11
Speaker 1: rather than one. UM when she told him she wanted
26:14
Speaker 1: to open an aviation school. And so she would say
26:16
Speaker 1: things like this when she thought it would work in
26:18
Speaker 1: her favor and to help her get the things done
26:21
Speaker 1: that she wanted to get doing, like for instance, she
26:23
Speaker 1: would also say There's also instances of her saying that
26:26
Speaker 1: she was younger than she actually was, Like when she
26:28
Speaker 1: was thirty two, she would say she was twenty three,
26:30
Speaker 1: you know, or things like that. But she though this
26:33
Speaker 1: paid off and did get her attention, she didn't necessarily
26:38
Speaker 1: have the best reputation with everyone, and some people viewed
26:42
Speaker 1: her as temperamental and that also the stories she told
26:47
Speaker 1: would just sometimes mess up plans for her appearances, like
26:50
Speaker 1: she would do double bookings and stuff like that. And
26:54
Speaker 1: she also fired managers, several managers up a short period
26:58
Speaker 1: of time. But after she did by the plane, she
27:03
Speaker 1: the first instance of kind of like a tragedy in
27:07
Speaker 1: her life. Well, that's like something that like definitely was
27:11
Speaker 1: bad in her life. Like she was flying from Santa
27:13
Speaker 1: Monica to Los Angeles when the plane crashed. It stalled
27:17
Speaker 1: and crashed, and so she was unconscious when she was rescued.
27:20
Speaker 1: She spent some time in the hospital because she broke
27:23
Speaker 1: her leg and she broke some ribs and had like
27:25
Speaker 1: other harm done to her in other ways. And she
27:28
Speaker 1: was released after a few months, but she got a
27:31
Speaker 1: cast on her leg and and got out. The plane
27:34
Speaker 1: was destroyed, so you know, she worked hard to get
27:38
Speaker 1: to buy the plane, but then it was destroyed. So yeah,
27:41
Speaker 1: and I keep thinking about how at this time, as
27:45
Speaker 1: you said, flying was pretty new, and these planes are
27:48
Speaker 1: just thinking about the what must have been very exhilarating
27:52
Speaker 1: but also very scary, and that they could just the
27:56
Speaker 1: engine just gives out on you and she could have
27:59
Speaker 1: easily died right then. Looking at the timeline for a
28:03
Speaker 1: lot of the young pilots, it wasn't long. It was
28:07
Speaker 1: like a continued pattern for all And I'm like, yeah,
28:10
Speaker 1: those airplanes, I just cannot imagine justifying trap that it
28:15
Speaker 1: must have been. Seriously, the barn storming didn't last long,
28:20
Speaker 1: you know, all the like more regulation and that that
28:24
Speaker 1: means it was such a off the cuff, like dvery
28:27
Speaker 1: definitely type of situation that that that era didn't last
28:30
Speaker 1: super long. Um, And I couldn't imagine walking on the
28:33
Speaker 1: plane's wings, Like I mean, I feel like this is
28:36
Speaker 1: coming from advantage point of like, you know, there's passenger
28:40
Speaker 1: flights are so safe and we're so used to you know,
28:44
Speaker 1: we're so used to that, We're so used to driving,
28:47
Speaker 1: and there's so many safety improvements that have happened, and
28:50
Speaker 1: when it comes to all of the transportation that like,
28:54
Speaker 1: you know, looking back, I'm like, I wouldn't have stepped
28:56
Speaker 1: foot in one of those planes. Okay, like I am good,
28:59
Speaker 1: I have step footing one. I wouldn't have tried to
29:02
Speaker 1: learn to pilot one. And I definitely wouldn't have tried
29:04
Speaker 1: to be on the wings while I was stressing somebody
29:07
Speaker 1: else to pilot one. Right, I think I would have
29:09
Speaker 1: gotten one. I don't think I would have gotten on
29:11
Speaker 1: the wings. But I have somebody who's like, oh, let's
29:16
Speaker 1: try this thing that's probably very dangerous. Well, you are
29:21
Speaker 1: dared devil yourself. I do know that about you. That's
29:25
Speaker 1: what they call me, dared devil reaves. I love it.
29:35
Speaker 1: We do have some more for you listeners, but first
29:38
Speaker 1: we have one more quick break for work from responsor
29:53
Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you. Spun there. So she ended
29:57
Speaker 1: up going back to Chicago, and she did have notoriety there,
30:00
Speaker 1: but she wasn't necessarily monetarily wealthy. Um. She made enough
30:04
Speaker 1: money to live. So she went back to Texas in
30:07
Speaker 1: n and giving lectures became something that was a big
30:13
Speaker 1: part of her life. UM that did help make her money.
30:18
Speaker 1: She gave lectures and prepared for more flying demonstrations, and
30:25
Speaker 1: a note here that over this time she'd been touring
30:27
Speaker 1: doing these flights. Um. She wouldn't fly in front of
30:30
Speaker 1: a segregated audience, so that was one of her demands.
30:33
Speaker 1: She said she wanted everybody to enter through the same gate,
30:36
Speaker 1: and that often happened, and when she was flying in
30:38
Speaker 1: the North. Her first show in Texas was on Juneteenth,
30:43
Speaker 1: and it was segregated. So there were plenty of times
30:46
Speaker 1: when she did get people to make these concessions when
30:48
Speaker 1: it came to having integrated shows, but that didn't happened
30:52
Speaker 1: on her first show in Texas. And she did go
30:55
Speaker 1: on to do more shows in the Houston area and
30:59
Speaker 1: and she did more lectures as well. Also during those lectures,
31:02
Speaker 1: she would encourage black folks to take up aviation. She
31:04
Speaker 1: would also show clips of her flights UM and she
31:08
Speaker 1: parachuted from a plane herself for the first time in
31:11
Speaker 1: September of nine at an air show in Texas. So
31:15
Speaker 1: she continued turning the country. She went to Georgia and
31:17
Speaker 1: Florida and lectured. She would appear in theaters, she would
31:21
Speaker 1: appear in schools and churches, and but she didn't meet
31:25
Speaker 1: resistance in Florida for wanting shows that weren't segregated. UM.
31:29
Speaker 1: But yeah, so in Orlando she did have success getting
31:32
Speaker 1: an integrated show. But all this time she's touring, and
31:35
Speaker 1: during all these lectures, she was also still dreaming about
31:40
Speaker 1: opening her aviation school. She was looking for financial support
31:45
Speaker 1: for that as well, so because that doesn't come without
31:47
Speaker 1: a cost, and so that's still in the back of
31:52
Speaker 1: her mind. And in her Georgia and Florida exhibition flights,
31:56
Speaker 1: she flew borrowed planes because her plane having crashed, but
32:01
Speaker 1: she did end up earning enough money and getting money
32:03
Speaker 1: from a friend to buy another surplus Jenny, which is
32:06
Speaker 1: what they call the JAM four that she had found
32:08
Speaker 1: in Dallas. So there was William Wills, who was a
32:14
Speaker 1: mechanic and a pilot. He flew the plane, the one
32:16
Speaker 1: that she had found in Dallas, from Dallas to Jacksonville
32:19
Speaker 1: for her after she earned enough money to buy it.
32:22
Speaker 1: Um The plan was in pretty poor condition, so it
32:25
Speaker 1: wasn't great, but she had been invited to fly at
32:29
Speaker 1: the nine May Day celebration in Jacksonville that was sponsored
32:33
Speaker 1: by the Negro Welfare League, and that was important to
32:36
Speaker 1: her because, as we discussed at the top of the show,
32:38
Speaker 1: like she got she had support, but she didn't have
32:42
Speaker 1: a ton of support for it to be able to
32:45
Speaker 1: raise money for the endeavors that she wanted to to
32:48
Speaker 1: be able to attain, and so it was important to
32:51
Speaker 1: her because this was a notable black organization UM that
32:56
Speaker 1: could potentially help her get closer to her dream of
32:58
Speaker 1: opening an aviation school. Unfortunately, like this hurt, she couldn't.
33:03
Speaker 1: She was never able to realize that dream because she
33:05
Speaker 1: died early. So this was on April thirty, the day
33:09
Speaker 1: before the event. William Wills the mechanic and pilot, and
33:12
Speaker 1: then Bessie. They took the plane out for a test
33:14
Speaker 1: fight before the big show. He piloted the plane and
33:19
Speaker 1: she was sitting in the back and he had his
33:21
Speaker 1: seatbelt on, but she didn't have her seatbelt on because
33:24
Speaker 1: she was looking over the plane trying to survey the
33:26
Speaker 1: fields below and get a sense of everything. And she
33:30
Speaker 1: was planning a parachute jump for the next day. But
33:33
Speaker 1: after they were in the air for not that long,
33:35
Speaker 1: the plane went into a dive and untail spin and
33:39
Speaker 1: it flipped over and that threw her out of the
33:42
Speaker 1: aircraft and that killed her. Um. They were really high up,
33:46
Speaker 1: you know. William he stayed in the plane, but he
33:48
Speaker 1: also died. It crashed and caught on fire. And after
33:53
Speaker 1: that happened, some people believed that William Wills made the
33:57
Speaker 1: plane lose control. They blamed him, said he was guilty
33:59
Speaker 1: of order. But it ended up turning out that there
34:03
Speaker 1: was a wrench that was used to service the plane
34:06
Speaker 1: that had slid into the gearbox and made it spin.
34:08
Speaker 1: So like, as you mentioned, like already something that seems
34:12
Speaker 1: so dangerous to do in the first place, like because
34:16
Speaker 1: there weren't so many stops for things that could happen,
34:19
Speaker 1: accidents that could happen like that as there are now.
34:23
Speaker 1: And also the plane was old and like you know,
34:27
Speaker 1: was already in poor condition. Um. Yeah, that's something so small,
34:32
Speaker 1: you know, that could seem so insignificant as a wrench.
34:34
Speaker 1: That's something that can into people's lives and you know,
34:36
Speaker 1: affect so many others based on the people that Wills
34:39
Speaker 1: and all the loved ones for for William Wills and
34:42
Speaker 1: for for Bessie Coleman, you know, we're affected by by
34:44
Speaker 1: their deaths. And also all of the people who you
34:49
Speaker 1: know aspired to be aviators. Um, all the people who
34:54
Speaker 1: didn't know who they would learn from Bessie Coleman were
34:58
Speaker 1: affected by her death. That was you know, the end
35:01
Speaker 1: of her story. Unfortunately, like she lived a pretty she
35:04
Speaker 1: only lived into her thirties. Um. And there were funeral
35:08
Speaker 1: services that were held for her a couple in Florida
35:11
Speaker 1: and went in Chicago that out to be wells presided over,
35:15
Speaker 1: and she was buried at Lincoln Cemetery in Chicago. And
35:19
Speaker 1: so the we's been said that, like, you know, her
35:21
Speaker 1: achievements didn't really get the recognition that she had earned.
35:26
Speaker 1: While she was alive, there were people who supported her,
35:31
Speaker 1: who encouraged her to who came to see her shows,
35:33
Speaker 1: who acknowledged the fact that, you know, she had to
35:36
Speaker 1: learn French, and then she went to France to study
35:40
Speaker 1: flying and then came back to the US and talked
35:43
Speaker 1: herself up, which I'm an advocate for. Actually, I'll just
35:46
Speaker 1: stop to stay here. Talk yourself up, because if you
35:49
Speaker 1: don't do it, nobody else will. Oh yeah, like you said,
35:53
Speaker 1: you gotta have especially when she's trying to drum up
35:56
Speaker 1: like people to come to a show, you gotta have
35:58
Speaker 1: this public persona herself up. Oh the way, I'm all
36:01
Speaker 1: for it too, And we've been taught for so a
36:03
Speaker 1: lot of that's not okay and it's indecent for women
36:06
Speaker 1: to do and see her doing it and doing it
36:08
Speaker 1: well and being able to succeed for the time that
36:10
Speaker 1: she could, that was inspirational do it. Yeah. Yeah, she
36:16
Speaker 1: had a lot of support at the funerals though, So
36:17
Speaker 1: there were thousands of people that attended her Chicago funeral.
36:21
Speaker 1: And she's also been honored in many ways since. So,
36:23
Speaker 1: she was on a stamp, a U S stamp in
36:25
Speaker 1: nineteen there were pilots who fly over her grave since
36:31
Speaker 1: like annually since nineteen thirty one. Um, there were black
36:34
Speaker 1: women pilots who started a club that named after her
36:37
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies. And yeah, she's been honored like
36:41
Speaker 1: with street names and stuff like that. So her contributions
36:47
Speaker 1: to flight, you know, not just Women's flight, all flight
36:50
Speaker 1: and have been recognized in ways since. So yeah, her
36:55
Speaker 1: story unfortunately into early and I feel like it always
36:57
Speaker 1: really sucks to hear like somebody who care so much
37:00
Speaker 1: about being a pioneer in the area, but not because
37:03
Speaker 1: like I'm going to be a pioneer in this area.
37:05
Speaker 1: Is like I just want to do this thing, you know,
37:07
Speaker 1: Wherever the impetus comes from, whether that's brothers who like
37:10
Speaker 1: are teasing you, or whether that's like stories of you
37:13
Speaker 1: reading about and you just you know, imagine that for yourself,
37:17
Speaker 1: m end it early for her. But UM yeah, I
37:21
Speaker 1: think that it's good too that we can talk about
37:24
Speaker 1: her today and we do still know a little about
37:27
Speaker 1: her story. Yeah. I mean, it's it's tragic ending. Uh,
37:34
Speaker 1: but I just respect so much of so much of
37:37
Speaker 1: what she did and how she just found a way.
37:42
Speaker 1: She found a way to get what she wanted and
37:44
Speaker 1: she did. It was a pretty short time all of
37:46
Speaker 1: this went down. Um, and she had these like morals
37:52
Speaker 1: that she's really outspoken about or or things that she
37:55
Speaker 1: just stood stood for. And was this inspiration to you
38:01
Speaker 1: a lot of people at large, but then women and
38:03
Speaker 1: black women. UM yeah, it was an amazing story. I'm
38:08
Speaker 1: glad we're talking about it. So, UM, do you have
38:12
Speaker 1: any designs, any plans to fly now? Annie? I actually, honestly,
38:18
Speaker 1: I'm not even lying. After I read this, I was like,
38:21
Speaker 1: I wonder, I wonder if I could get a pilot's license. Um, okay,
38:30
Speaker 1: so that's gonna be I'm gonna hit you up for
38:33
Speaker 1: that during the apocalypse. If you do get your pilot's license,
38:36
Speaker 1: can you please be on my team so you can fly,
38:38
Speaker 1: So where if we need to escape? You're right, You're right.
38:41
Speaker 1: I need to start. I need to start upping my apocalypse.
38:44
Speaker 1: Like I love when you play video games, they're like
38:47
Speaker 1: what character do you want to be? And you can
38:48
Speaker 1: look at all their skills and it's like, can dive underwater?
38:51
Speaker 1: Can fly plane? I need to be building up that list. Yeah,
38:55
Speaker 1: I think. I think if I've got a pretty decent
38:57
Speaker 1: list already, but I'll add flight to it, Eaves, and
39:00
Speaker 1: I'll be on your team. I gotta figure out my skills.
39:03
Speaker 1: Say I'm gonna bring something to the table. I mean,
39:06
Speaker 1: you're you, and I can be the skill who actually
39:08
Speaker 1: find the people who are better at things than us.
39:12
Speaker 1: Scout is Scout have that. I like that. I like
39:17
Speaker 1: that always just thinking, always thinking, Samantha smarter, not harder,
39:25
Speaker 1: get someone else to think exactly. I love it. Yeah.
39:34
Speaker 1: I she has inspired me to potentially become a pilot
39:39
Speaker 1: one day. So her story is still having an impact
39:44
Speaker 1: and that's great. Later yes, yeah, um, well, thank you
39:50
Speaker 1: as always, Eves. It's been a delight. Where can the
39:54
Speaker 1: good listeners find you? You can find me online, you
39:59
Speaker 1: can find online. I'm like, I'm hesitant to like you know,
40:03
Speaker 1: tell people on the internet, because that means I have
40:04
Speaker 1: to be on the internet. But you can find me
40:07
Speaker 1: um online Eves jeffco on Twitter. Um, I'm also um
40:13
Speaker 1: on I'm Popular. Can listen to me on Unpopular, the
40:16
Speaker 1: podcast about people in history who did really amazing, really
40:19
Speaker 1: provocative things. And you can also listen to me on
40:23
Speaker 1: This Day in History Class, another podcast about things that
40:27
Speaker 1: happen in history and people in history and you may
40:30
Speaker 1: hopefully learn something. Definitely learning does come out strong and
40:36
Speaker 1: say it. Thank you. Check that out. You've got the
40:40
Speaker 1: read along coming up. We tease that the top so excited.
40:44
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. Yeah, listeners, go do that if you
40:47
Speaker 1: haven't already. UM And if you would like to contact us,
40:50
Speaker 1: oh you can um. Our email is Stuff Media mom
40:55
Speaker 1: Stuff at I heart media dot com. You can find
40:57
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You, are
40:59
Speaker 1: on Twitter, r app mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always
41:02
Speaker 1: to our super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks and thanks to
41:06
Speaker 1: you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You. He's a
41:08
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from my
41:10
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
41:12
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows,