Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / “Beloved” pediatrician BUSTED molests dozens of child patients for years, plus KILLER hockey dad

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“Beloved” pediatrician BUSTED molests dozens of child patients for years, plus KILLER hockey dad · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Remember going hit the back
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: with him? Investigators say Bartow waited for his patient's guardians
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to leave the exam room. More victims have come forward
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: to allege that he sexually abused them twenty years ago.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: This predator should have been stopped. Victims came forward, but
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: no one would listen, No one would believe. If they
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: would have did their jobs properly like they're supposed to do,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: it could have stopped. But no, they chose to give
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: a psycho back his ability to touch other children, which
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: he did. Wow, we're talking about a Pennsylvania pediatrician, doctor
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Johnny Bartow of Johnstown. Dozens and dozens victims coming forward.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Joining me right now, doctor Wendy Dickinson, psychologist, founder of
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Grow Counseling, Stephen Lampley, a detective extraordinaire, renewund family and
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: divorce lawyer, Kathleen Murphy and joining me right now. Crime
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter and author of Beautiful Life,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: The CSI behind the Casey Anthony trial. Robin we Lensky, Robin,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: who is this guy? This is a male pediatrician for many,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: many years, for decades, worked as part of a practice
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: at Laurel Pediatric Associates with other doctors and parents in
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: the area, would take their babies and their toddlers and
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: their teens for all kinds of treatments your kids, your
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: kid has a cold, the whole gamut, and he would
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: treat them. But clearly there was something very wrong going
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: on in the background with this guy for decades. You
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: know when you say clearly there was something going on
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: with this guy for decades, what do you mean by that. Well,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: there were allegations, Nancy, that the kids, some of them
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: would go to their moms and dads say the doctor
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: touched them. Take a listen to our friend at WTAJ,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: this is Lindsay Kennett. Investigators say Barto waited for his
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: patient's guardians to leave the exam room or would use
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: his body to hide the alleged assaults. Bartow's medical license
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: was revoked in January. Attorney General Joshapiro said this investigation
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: is ongoing and thanked the victims for their courage coming
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: forward doing It takes victims oftentimes a long time to
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: come to grips with what happened, for them to have
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: confidence that people will believe their truth and to come
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: forward and share what happened. That's very normal and that's
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: not something that victims should ever be criticized about. No
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: one should fear coming forward share that information with us.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Have you noticed to doctor Wendy Dickinson, a psychologist, founder
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: of Grow Counseling, that the victims are now adult and
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: they are finally being her for the first time. For
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: those of you listening, if any one of you have
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: been a victim of doctor Johnny Bartow bias In brother Aarto,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: or you know someone that has been his victim, please
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: call four one two, five, six, five, seven to six
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: eight zero repeat four one, two, five, six, five seven
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: six eight zero Doctor Wendy. What does that do to
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: a person to be molested by someone? Your parents take
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: you in, do you deliver you to the molester? Then
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: they don't believe you when you try to explain what happens.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: It absolutely messens with children's development because it's outside the
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: scope of normal development. We ought to be able to
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: trust our caregivers, We ought to be able to be
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: believed by our caregivers, and we shouldn't have things introduced
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: into our world, sexual experiences, things that are beyond our
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: developmental level, and so it really affects children's ability to developed,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: which continues to affect their ability to develop as adults.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: And then when they look back as an adult with
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: a fully developed brain, they two things differently. They start
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: to understand what really happened, and it can actually be
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: ongoing levels of trauma, a trauma they experience as a
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: child and then a traumatic experience as an adult recognizing
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: what happened to them as a child. I earlier asked
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: who is Johnny Bartow? This is what I have learned.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: This guy, doctor Johnny Bartow of Johnstown, spent decades abusing
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: children in the exam room there at his pediatric practice,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: which was in western Pennsylvania. He also abused children at
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: local hospitals he opted. He chose to become a pediatrician
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: so he would always have a supply of children to molest.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, some of them molest station has actually occurred
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: while the parents were in the room. I'm speechless, Nancy.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: You asked who he was. This guy was such a
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: groomer that the people in the community said he groomed
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: our whole community. He held himself out as a very
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: specific good man, and when his charges first came out
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: in ninety eight. They held rallies for this guy. He
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: was so effective at convincing these parents that he was
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: a good man. Who were his typical victims? Robin wilensk Right, Nancy.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: The people that he was molesting were little girls as
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: young as a two week old. I mean, how disgusting
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: is that? And these women, you know, you think about
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: it as a young girl. You have to turn the
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: clock back to when your mom would take you or
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: dad take you to the pediatrician. I can remember my
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: pediatrician and you go there and this is the doctor.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: This is the guy with the name on the door
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: in possibly wearing a white lab coat, looking all official,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: and you there's a trust factor that this is the
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: guy that's going to cure you of your sore throat
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: when you're a little five or six year old girl
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: or younger, and then this person is inappropriately touching you.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I can't think of anything worse. So bottom line is
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: typical victims were pre pubescent girls, one infant, some boys.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: That is correct. Take a listen to what the Kness
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: reporter at WPAXI, Gordon Les discovers the Attorney General is
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: actually afraid there are so many victims, they're setting up
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: a hot line. The Attorney General, John Shapiro is setting
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: up a hot line tonight in order to find out
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: if there are any other victims of this pediatrician from Johnstown.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Doctor Johnny Bard was first charged with abusing a twelve
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: year old patient in his office. After those allegations of
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: astigators say, a second person came forward. A girl who
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: was fourteen at the time, says doctor Bartow abused her
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: at a gathering in two thousand and two. Barto was
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: first charged in January after accusations from a patient of
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Laurel Pediatric's associates in Richland Township. Please say, Bartow did
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: not deny the claims, but he did enter a not
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: guilty ply in court, and now the Attorney General fears
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: there are more victims. He tweeted, quote these charges are
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: deeply disturbing for anyone else out there who's been attacked
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: or abused, We will protect you and we will hold
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: this predator accountable for his crimes. Baro's medical license has
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: been suspended. He's being held now in the Cambria County Prison. Well,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: here's the twist to that. To Stephen Lampley, renowned detective.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: That was not the first time these charges had come up.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: All the way back in two thousand, doctor Johnny Bartow
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: appeared before the Pennsylvania Board of met on administrative charges,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: not criminal charges, that he molested two young girls in
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: the nineties, But that Board of Medicine threw out the
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: case let him keep practicing medicine, saying the allegations were
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: incongruous to his reputation. Do you hear me, Stephen? Two thousand,
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  Speaker 1: that is nineteen years ago he came up before the
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: medical board about molesting children, and they threw it out, saying, well,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: you know what, that doesn't fit with his reputation. We
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: believe his reputation over the two little girls. I mean,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: that should have raised everyone's attention right there. You're correct,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Nancy should have, and it actually did. It was the
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: beginning in the stages of being prosecuted, as I understand,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: until until the prosecuting attorney and the administrative judge that
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: was providing over the case originally were caught together at
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: a very menlow concert and had their picture made. That's
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: when the case when got transferred over to the Medical
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Board for their review, and then they decided that there
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: was there was not enough evidence that he was not
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: his reputation or his background. But you know, Mancy, you
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: and I both know it starts somewhere Robert Willinsky. I
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: didn't know that the prosecutor and the alj administrative law
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: judge that said there wasn't enough evidence they were at
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: a very menlow concert together. Yeah. How cozy is that?
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, this guy had a lot of tentacles into
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: the community, and in addition to being cozy at the concern,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: he knew all these other people in the town that
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: came out and did all these rallies in support of him.
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  Speaker 1: So he had a lot of tentacles in the community
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  Speaker 1: and people were supporting him and covering crime stories with
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I'm here outside the Richland Township Police Department
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: where Attorney General Josh Shapiro announced nearly seventy charges against Barto,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: accusing him of sexually abusing twenty nine more victims. Monday morning,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: investigators filed additional charges of sexual abuse against former pediatrician
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Johnny Jack Barto. Investigators say the seventy year old sexually
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: assaulted patients at Laurel Pediatric Associates and Konama Hospital. The
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: alleged abuse dates back to the late nineteen eighties, and
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: the victims include boys and girls of all ages, even
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: a two week old baby girl. Barto is accused of
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: inappropriately touching the victim's breasts and genitals. Doctor bart To
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: used his power and position of authority as their pediatrician
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  Speaker 1: to abuse them in those instances to feed his own
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  Speaker 1: sick desire. After the administrative board the Board of Medicine
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: cleared him, he apparently felt invincible. He felt that he
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: could do anything, and he continued molesting dozens of children.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, the whole community believed him. He became an
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  Speaker 1: elected school board member after the allegation. Hundreds of supporters
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  Speaker 1: flatly disbelieved he could be a pedophile, even though multiple
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: children kept telling the same story. There was so much
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: community support. There was one instance where ribbons were distributed
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: at a high school football game when he fought the
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  Speaker 1: allegations back in the nineties. How do you think it
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: made those two little girls feel? Where everybody in the
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: football stadium is wearing a ribbon to support the man
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  Speaker 1: that molested you. I wonder what happened to those two girls,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: But I could tell you what's going to happen to
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: doctor Johnny Bartow? A central Pennsylvania pediatrician, is now facing
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: dozens of child molestation charges after police say more victims
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  Speaker 1: have come forward to allege that he sexually abused them. Today,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the Attorney General's Office filed sixty nine new counts against
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Johntown physician Johnny Bartow. Charging documents alleged that Bartow fond
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: old girls and boys, often under the guise of treatment,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: and in some cases drawing heated complaints from their parents.
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  Speaker 1: We are standing here together in Richland Township to hold
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: doctor Bartow accountable, to say that we hear the victims truth,
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  Speaker 1: and that this person will never see the light of
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: day again. The seventy year old is accused of indecent assault,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: child endangerment, an account of involuntary deviant sexual inter As
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Bartow sat listening in court, victims described, one after the next,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: in minute detail, what happened, what he was wearing for incess,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: a striped purple shirt, what the room looked like, burgundy
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: carpeting on the walls, orange chairs, a teal steel, What
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: he did to them and how it made them feel.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: One victim says she can still feel Barto's cold hands
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: on her, and can still hear that examination table paper
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: crinkling underneath her body, and that the sounds doctor Barto
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: made during the molestation will haunt her, she says until
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: the day she dies. Another victim says, because of what
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Barto did to her, she rarely will see a doctor,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: and she's terrified of taking her children to a doctor.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Another victim says she showers in the dark because she
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: is ashamed. They describe lifelong struggles of being depressed, anxious,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: panic attacks, distrust. They say, quote, I've lived my life
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: in pain, hopelessness, and despair. They're now adults, doctor Wendy Dickinson,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: and they're still played and tormented by what this doctor did. Absolutely,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: the effects of trauma can continue well throughout our lifetime.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, these are significantly disruptive activities in a child's life,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: and it changes the course in trajectory of how they
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: see the world, how they see themselves, what they internalize
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: about themselves. Trauma trauma is significant and the effects are
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: life changing. You know. To Kathleen Murphy, who is in
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: North Carolina expert in family law, the wife Bartow's wife says,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: quote He's been lying to me about everything for all
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: of the fifty two years I have known him. He
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: spent his whole sinister life lying and sneaking around so
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: he could carry on his abuse uninterrupted. And she sides
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: with the victims. Yeah, that's what the wife said. She
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: had no idea. I'm still saying my same response what
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: doctor Johnny Bartow's wife says. Quote, he has been lying
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: to me about everything for all the fifty two years
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: I've known him. He's spent his whole sinister life, lying,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: sneaking around so he could carry on his abuse uninterrupted.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Even his wife was shot and is siding with the victims.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Is it true, Robin will Lensky that even after he's charged,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: people in the area would not accept the truth and
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: even launched a Facebook group to support him. That is correct, Nancy,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: there was a Facebook group supporting him. And let me
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: say this about the wife. Okay, she was convinced by
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: these other parents and the other victims, and she was
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: in court as a prosecution witness testifying against her husband.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: She sided with the victims, not with him. Once she
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: got wind of it, and once she was convinced that
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: these women were telling the truth about this horrendous abuse
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: and being touched in places where the doctor should not
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: be touching you. The doctor Johnny Bartow will face seventy
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: nine to one hundred and fifty eight years in prison,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: practically guaranteeing he will die behind bars. He fled no
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: low to the accounts to the charges of attacks on
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: non family members, which means he didn't deny them or
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: admit them. Take a listen to WSFA twelve news reporter
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Mark hi Menez Johnny Bartell making a mistake is a
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: sexual predator who chose to become a doctor so he
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: could have unfederate access to defenseless children. His assaults took
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: place from the late nineteen eighties through the nineteen nines
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: and the two thousands, accounting until January of two eighteen.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: And I especially want to say how prime I am
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: to be standing here today with these brave survivors, back
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: here in this Cameria Accounting Board house to discuss the
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: sentencing of course of doctor Johnny Barton, a sexually violent
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: predator who has now been held accounted for his abuse
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: of thirty one child victims. Doctor Barton used his position
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: of authority as a pediatrician, the family doctor of romine
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: to treat and held the children fell sick desire. Twenty
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: years ago. This predator should have been stopped. Victims came forward,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: but no one would listen, no one would believe. I
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: am relieved that he is behind bars and unable to
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: harm any more children. We've seen that here in the
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Catholic church. You see it in Hollywood, you see it
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: in politics, and we saw it here in this community
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: with a pediatrician for too long. At age thirteen, I
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: was sexually abused by doctor Bartow. At age sixteen, I
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: witnessed the entire community surround him with support and rally
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: for him when he was first publicly accused. He of course,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: will remain behind bars for the rest of his life,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: exactly where he should be. Neighbors who know Jerry Westrom
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: were shocked to see this mug shot a man they
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: call a nice guy and family man arrested in a
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: twenty five year old cold case. The person or suspect
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: looking for it could possibly have been injured bad enough
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: to seek medical attention. Westroom is accused of killing Jane
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Ann Childs in this Minneapolis apartment. He would have been
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: twenty seven. She was thirty five years old. Child's body
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: was found in the bedroom of her apartment on June thirteenth,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. Minneapolis police say in twenty fifteen, the
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Cold Case Task Force, along with the FBI and BCA,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: reviewed the case. Three years later, after consulting with an
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: online genealogy website, they say Westerroom's DNA match DNA evidence
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: left at the crime scene. There is no known relationship
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: between the individuals, and that's what makes these sort of
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: cases so hard to solve. Wow, in the last days,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: we learn a well respected quote hockey dad, a local businessman,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: charged with murdering a woman all the way back in
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. You know what, justice doesn't sleep right.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: After many many hiccups, cops match his the hockey dad
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: DNA from nothing less than a discarded hot dog napkin
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: at an ice skating rink. Now what a story. This
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: woman Jane and Child's found brutally murdered with dozens estab
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: wounds in Minnesota in nineteen ninety three. And now a
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: fifty two year old married father of two busted. A
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: hockey dad kills a woman in the nineties and he's
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: just getting buzzed. How you explained that to your your
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: boy out there playing hockey on the ice? How does
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: that work? Well? How reliable is DNA? Joining me right
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: now to Cold to Board CHERRYL. McCollum, Joseph Scott Morgan
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: and doctor Bethany Marshall and Robin Wilensky. Tell me about
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: this woman, Jane and Child's murder and where and how
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: her body was found? Well, Nancy, she was at her
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: apartment and he clearly was over there and people were
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: looking for her the next day when she didn't show off.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Was he married at the time? He was not married,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: and she was not married. Okay, as she's dead in
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: the shower, I believe they found her with her socks on,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: with water running over her, bloodied, the corpse over her body, Dad, Okay,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, Wait a minute, with her socks on. Okay,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: right right there, to Cheryl McCullum, director of the Cold
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Case Research Institute. The reason I asked is this now,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: he's a well respected businessman in hockey, Dad, fifty two
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: years old. The reason I wanted to know was he
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: married at the time of her murder? Was? Why would
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: he want to get rid of the evidence I a her,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: why would he want to kill her? But now my
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: interest is piqued by the fact that she had on socks. Okay, sure,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: The last time I heard about a crime a player
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: in a crime scene scenario wearing socks was Elliot Spitzer,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: you remember him, the governor of New York, and would
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: go to all the hookers and then or I guess
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: they were hookers, go to all the women, let me say,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: and they would recount that he always wore his socks.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Now does that have anything to do with this? No,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: but the socks aspect really sticks in my mind. Cheryl
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: McCollum in the shower with socks, and she is murdered, bloody,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: stabbed brutally. He put her in the showers to get
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: rid of other evidence. So he's probably thinking, if I
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: leave her in the shower with the water running, the
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: batable way and anything else I might have left on
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: her body, like seminal fluid tivacare, that'll go away as well.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Back to Robin Willinski Crime Online dot Com investigative report,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Robin Willinsky. So she's stabbed brutally in the shower, she's
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: wearing a pair of socks. Now me going into a
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: crime scene. That's something that would really get my interest
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: because that tells me she wasn't just in the shower
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: when somebody snuck up on her. That says to me
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: she was murdered somewhere else then put in the shower. Possibly.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: But and the significance of that to Joseph Scott Morgan,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: forensics expert, is you need to determine whether you're a
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: crime scene, is a primary secondary, a tertiary crime scene?
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Is that was she murdered in the shower? Was she
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: murdered somewhere else? Because there could be evidence there was
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: this a tertiary spot where she had been transported in
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: a car, secondary, dumped here, tertiary. All this is important
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: because if there are previous crime scenes, you need the
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: evidence from their hair, fiber, touch, DNA, anything you can get.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Remember in the Teresa Hallback case making a murder the
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: darling of the cable world, Stephen Avery, remember his DNA
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: was found on the ignition of Teresa Hallback's car. If
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: they hadn't had that, it could have completely jinks the case. Right,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: So every crime scene is significant, Yes it is. Nancy,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: just like the godfather of forensic science said all over
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: one hundred years ago. Edmond Lecard, Every contact leaves a trace.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: That means that all along this continuum. I love it
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: when you throw out something. I dot know what did
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: you just say? Who? Edmond Lecard, he's the godfather of
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: all things forensics. He's famous for his contribution to forensic science,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: and it even applies today, even in computer science. His
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: statement is, every contact leaves a trace, and that means
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: that everywhere we touch, everywhere we go, we leave something
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: of ourselves behind. And in this particular case, that's important.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Just like you were talking about where the socks Nancy,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: if this, if she had not had socks on, uh,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: you know, it wouldn't have piqued my interest as much.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: But the fact that she had these on in the
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: shower give me a break. And the only time I've
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: ever done that is when I was drunk. You know,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: you show up, you get in the shower, you don't
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: take your socks off. Hold on, right there, I can't
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: relate to that. I don't drink in Cheryl McComb. If
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: you tell him any different, I'll know where it came from. Okay,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: go ahead, please, yeah, you want you want to have
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: this connectivity, so for me as an investigator, when I'm
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: looking at the scene, I'm going to think, why in
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: the world would she have her socks on? That to
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: me tells me that this may may have started somewhere
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: else in that particular room, and he wanted, just like
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Cheryl had mentioned, to keep the steady stream of water up,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: hoping that it's going to wash away any kind of
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: contacted evidence that they may share. See you and I
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: and Cheryl are looking at it for evidence. That's why
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: the socks are driving are really John me crazy? Now
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: to doctor Bethany Marshall, who I don't care what it is.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: She thinks there's some slant of setomasochism in it. I
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: don't care what the scenario is. She will find a way. Now.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I'm sure this par of socks means something completely different
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: to her. It's like looking at an abstract painting. Everybody
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: sees something different. So Bethany, go ahead, I'm sitting down.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Hit me. Well, I'm glad you asked the question, because
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: when you were talking about touch evidence and washing off
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: the DNA or whatever it was, I thought that is
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: way too sophisticated. I think that he wanted to approach
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: her sexually. She either rebuffed him, or she criticized him,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: or some small altercation took place that turned into a
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: rage attack. If, as I suspect, he had never killed before,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: he did not know what to do with all the blood.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: He shoved her into the shower and kept attacking her there.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: You know, I get it. Some serial killers will put
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: somebody in the shower to wipe off the wash off
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the evidence. That's not your ordinary twenty seven year old
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: rage a Hallock, which is who I think this perp was.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: You know what, Jackie just gave me some information. Jackie
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Howard here in the studio with me, Alan Duke joining
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: me from La Robin Wilenski, please tell me this is
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: not true. This woman was stabbed thirty eight times. And
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: the guy, this so called upstanding businessman, father, hockey dad, husband,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: he actually posted bond and in the courtroom where the
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: wife and children, which I understand, and twenty other supporters
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: what because it happened a long time ago, we forgot.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: It's just been a big Jurassic erase. Well he's all bond, Natty.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: He's been living two totally separate lives, this guy. And
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I want to make the point that I believe that
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: the murder actually took place in the bed, because you
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: have a comforter in that apartment that's loaded with his DNA.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: You have a towel, a washcloth, a footprint. So this
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: is something that took place a long time ago, and
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: clearly he's blocked it out of his mind. Now he's married,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: he's a hockey dad, he's got the two kids in
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: a white ticket fence. But at the end of the day,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: he's really a murderer, and all his DNA is going
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: back to the bed, to the actual comforter in this
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: woman's home. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, do you know what.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Listen to this. Let me throw this to nicolode Board
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: former prosecutor, car defense attorney. Listen to this. We were
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: reviewing court documents that we obtained and this woman, Genie
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: and childs. Her naked body was found in her apartment.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: She was stabbed thirty eight times all over her body.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Blood covered the walls of her bedroom. As Robin Lensky
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: accurately pointed out, we think that's where the incident first started,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: all over the walls of her living room and bathroom. Now,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: this is according to the search warrant we obtained the
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: bathroom was flooding because the shower had been left on
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: finger palm and footprints were discovered at the scene, and
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: then it sat there. The case was reopened years later
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: by a Minneapolis homicide detective and a fed FBI special
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: agent only because they knew there had been advances in DNA.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Samples were sent to the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension and
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: a private DNA company, which is very significant here. The
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: samples were run through an online genealogy website which turns
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: up this guy, the hockey dad, Jerry Westrom. So what
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: am I supposed to believe Nicole? That he was in
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: the home, everything's covered with his DNA, than he leaves
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: and somebody else comes in and stabs her. You know,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: it's certainly going to be interesting to hear what sort
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: of defense they put up, But I would I would
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: bet that that's exactly where they're headed. You know, we
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: have all kinds of information that makes it very clear
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: that this was a very violent and ugly murder. But
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: what we don't know is whether or not there was
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: any other DNA or any other potential suspect information in
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: that location. And I would guess that that's what this
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: defense will do. Well, what we need, Sheryl McCollum, is
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: the right kind of DNA? Yes, his DNA's found it
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: the scene, But is it semon? Is it blood? Is
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: it touch dna? Is it sweat? I mean, I don't
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: know what the type of DNA is. Now if you do,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: because if his DNA is on the murder weapon, well
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: it's you know, closed case. But if his DNA is,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: for instance, they have sex the day before, then you
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: know the state's got a problem. Hit me, Well, he
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: left his seamen on a towel at the crime scene.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: That's pretty good all day? Was the towel bloody by chance? Well,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know about blood, and I know about seamen.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: And here's the thing. I had you as a prosecutor,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: so I'm used to putting together a whole picture of somebody,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: not just one aspect, not just the DNA. But Nancy,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: this man has a record and he was even charging
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: two thousands fifteen was something that I think you would
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: find really interesting. Hit me, what elicitin a prostitute? What
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: eliciting a prostitute? Wait? Wait wait wait wait wait wait?
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: When did he solicit a hooker twenty fifteen. And aren't
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: there claims that the victim, the murder victim Gene and Childs,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: was a hooker. Correct, So now you have hual behavior
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: going half a decade. Well, here's another problem for West
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: from the hockey Dad. In an interview, he denied ever
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: being in the apartment, that he did not know the victim,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: and he did not have any sex contact with any
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: women in Minneapolis in nineteen ninety three, when confronted with
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: his DNA, he told investigators he had no idea why
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: his DNA would be present at that scene. Now here's
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: the beauty part. Here's the beauty part, Nicole de Board
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: because of him, say that the defense is locked in
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: to that statement. See if he had said something like, Okay,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: I admit I dated her, we had sex that night,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: and I left, he might have had a chance. But
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: then coming in and lie, hey, I was with nobody
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: in Minneapolis that entire year. See, we's caught lying. Then
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: you have the twenty and fifteen solicitation of a hooker.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: And now pieces of the puzzle are falling together. If
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: he had not lied at the get go, mmmm, he
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: might have been able to get out of this Nicole.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I agree. I agree that it's a big problem for
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: the defense that there's a definite lie. I mean, we
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: have DNA, it appears that he was clearly there. You know.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: What the defense will likely argue, though, is that it's
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: one thing to lie about, you know, potentially being with
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: a woman that you don't want people to know that
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: you were with, and it's a totally different thing to
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: lie and about a murder. And I would guess that
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: the defensible claim that what he's lying about is that
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: he was with this woman because he didn't want people
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: to know, But that doesn't foreclose the idea that somebody
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: else could have been the person who actually killed her.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: To Joska Morgan, renowned forensics expert, how reliable is DNA,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: even DNA that is promising thirty years ago, I think
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: that it's it's highly reliable, Nancy, and the numbers are
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: almost undefeatable. When you talk about matching. It's not like
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: you know, in the old days where where we had
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: to use only blood typing, you know, with ABO groups
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: and all that sort of thing, and you're talking about
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: you know, uh, one in a thousand possibilities. This is
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: you're in some of these cases, Nancy, I've actually seen
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: studies where it goes up into one in the quintillion
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: arena in you know, in most cases it's like one
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: in a certain number million or bill chances that it
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: could be anybody else. So I think that this is
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: I think that that it is. It's stone cold, a
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: solid science. Here's another thing that's that's very exciting about
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: this and scary too to a certain degree. You know,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: for years, the FBI has worked off of a database
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: that's called the Forensic Database, and that's DNA that is
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: collected from unknown so okay, from all of these sexual
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: sexual assault cases, homicides from all over the country where
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: we have unknown DNA that's collected at scenes, but we
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: couldn't match it back to anybody. Now because of cases
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: like this that you're seeing coming to the forefront, my
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: suspicion is is that there are coal case squads working
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: all over the country now that are going to get
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: into this new technology using genealogy and these other databases
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: to come in and try to begin to clear this case.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I think that this is we're only seeing the tip
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: of the iceberg here as far as clear in cases goes.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Robin will ask you a question, do you do we know?
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: I know that DNA was found on several items at
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: the crime scene, and then the genealogy website led cops
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: to Westren. Two questions for you right now. Number One,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: what items at the crime scene had his DNA on them? Specifically?
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Was it a bedsheet where maybe they just had sex,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: or was it a murder weapon or something in that
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: bathroom where her body was found? And two, could you
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: tell us how they staked him out and they got
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: his known DNA? Because see, we've got the DNA from
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: her body and the crime scene, we think it's him
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: through the genealogy website, We've got to get his specific DNA.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: How do they do it? Take that one first, Okay,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: the items I know for sure Nancy were his DNA.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Is this big comforter that was on the bed, the
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: towel that has the seamen and there's a footprint. Those
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: are the three that I know for sure. And then
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: they were following him the hockey dad and it was
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: his daughter's hockey game, and he's showing down on a
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: hot dog and you know how the hot dog comes
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: in that little paper thing with the napkins, and he
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: discards it and sang, they've got him. Man, that is
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: some good police work. Can take a listen to our
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: friends at Hnneman County. This is Attorney Mike Freeman. Mister
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Westrom's in custody. There's investigation is still going on. We're
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: quite confident that he is a person, or we would
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: not have charged it. And the DNA shows that only
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: he and the victim are found in the blood samples
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: and that ninety nine point nine nine percent of other
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: individuals have been excluded. Mister Westrom's blood is found on
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: the apartment, including the comforter, a towel, a footprint, and
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: a number of other things. There's additional why chromosome testing
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: being done now, but we felt we had more than
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: enough to charge and we have done so.