Latest / Anchored by the Sword / It’s OK to Not Be OK: A Conversation on Faith and the Four Keys to Mental Health with Steve Larson!

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It’s OK to Not Be OK: A Conversation on Faith and the Four Keys to Mental Health with Steve Larson! · Anchored by the Sword

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  Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Anchor by the
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  Sword podcast. I pray that today's episode will
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  leave you encouraged and also challenged in your faith.
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  And I pray that. You would take the stories that
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  are. Talked about here today and
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  share them with other people. Thank you so much for joining me
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  and enjoy today's episode. Hey guys, welcome to this
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  episode of the Anchor by the Sword podcast.
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  So with maybe Mental Health Awareness Month, I wanted to
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  bring on a Steve Larson, whose book came out in January this
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  year called the Four Keys to Mental Health, How to feel
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  better, think clearly and enjoy life again.
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  So I'm excited to learn about his perspective with the book,
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  his life, and just all of the things.
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  So, Steve, thank you for joining me today.
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  Thank you for having me, it's a pleasure to be here.
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  Absolutely. So can you talk, tell my
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  listeners a little bit about yourself?
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  Yeah, so I'm married to Tammy and we have two children, Dalton
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  and Miracle. I live in the Rochester, MN area
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  and God used us to plant a church in a community outside of
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  Rochester and this November will be my 30th year.
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  That's awesome. Thank you.
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  So I know Minnesota can be kind of a tough area.
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  We'll put it this way. It's in the news a lot.
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  Are you guys close to that area? Yeah, that a lot of that is up
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  in the Minneapolis area and we're about an hour and a half
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  from there. But it's definitely something
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  that we try to honor our convictions and yet show
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  compassion. And the big thing that I always
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  try to teach people is we need to learn how to respect those we
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  disagree with and just show love to them either than if they're
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  on the other side of the aisle or on the other side of a issue
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  from us. Jesus said, love your enemies,
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  pray for those that hurt you. So to me, that's a big part of
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  it is how do we treat people who disagree with.
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  US absolutely. That is so important.
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  So let's go ahead and dive into your personal freedom journey.
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  Yeah, so my, I grew up in a, a Christian home and we went to
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  church Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night.
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  And but I would probably consider myself at that time
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  maybe a Pharisee Christian where I thought that it was about me
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  earning my salvation. And it wasn't until my early 20s
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  that I really understood that I can't, he can, and I trust him.
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  In other words, I can't save myself.
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  And so I surrendered to Christ at a dorm room in Storm Lake,
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  IA, and that's how I came to Him.
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  And little did I know that one day He would call me into the
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  ministry. But yeah, so I had those seeds
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  of truth and righteousness in me.
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  I just didn't understand the grace component.
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  So what made mental health a part of your life?
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  Yeah. So basically it was something
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  that I've dealt with my whole life.
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  However, in my teenage years, we didn't talk about it back then.
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  I mean, this would have been in the the 90s.
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  And when we planted the church, things went really well by the
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  grace of God. But then about six years into
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  the church plant, our church went through a reason of a
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  division. And I didn't really know how to
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  handle it. And because the church was
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  falling apart, I started to fall apart on the inside.
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  And I became so depressed that I wanted to quit.
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  And our church gave me a three month sabbatical where I got
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  away. And I just learned about some of
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  the misbeliefs I had about depression and anxiety and all
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  of that stuff. And when I got back from my
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  sabbatical, I asked this question, how do I never sink
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  that low again? And I began to collect tools and
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  fill notebooks of information. And our district of churches
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  asked me to start teaching this information.
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  And I've been teaching it for about 20 years.
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  But a lot of it was just in the beginning.
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  Just how do I keep my head above water mentally?
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  And then the Lord just started opening the door for me to share
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  what I had been learning with others.
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  I think that's so important to, with your church giving you a
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  sabbatical so that that way you could take time to focus on your
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  mental health and focus on not going down that road again, but
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  starting to recognize the signs of when it was.
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  Because I don't, I don't think that the Big Sea Church does
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  really great with mental health like within its congregation and
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  with people coming inside the church.
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  And I think it's so great that not only did they recognize it
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  for you, you recognized it in yourself and you also saw the
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  need and saw the gap in order to begin those conversations.
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  And you've been doing that for 20 years?
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  Yeah, that's been a big part of our mission is to make it safe
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  to talk about in churches. I read this book and it said
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  that we live in a culture that stigmatizes certain kinds of
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  brokenness over others. And most churches are OK with
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  someone who's physically I'll coming, right?
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  They don't shame them. They don't look down at them.
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  But then, yes, there can be this shaming over someone who has a
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  mental health challenge. And I tell people that mental
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  health is for everybody. Some people think, well, it's
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  for those people and I just say that if you have a body, you
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  have physical health and if you have a brain, you have mental
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  health. So the question is not if you
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  have mental health, the question is what is the current state of
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  your mental health? Yeah, my mom lived with bipolar
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  within the last 10 to 13 years of her life.
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  She passed away in 2013. The church that she was going to
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  at the time, which was also a church that I was going to, but
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  I had already left the church because there was a massive
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  split. They, they kind of shunned her
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  and my dad. Now granted, you and I both know
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  that living with someone who lives with bipolar, who totally
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  engrosses, you know, in the disease, it's really hard to
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  live with. That's why her and I were
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  estranged for three years before she passed away because it's
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  really difficult to deal with. But they kind of pushed her and
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  my dad out of the way to the point where my dad literally,
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  when he, when my mom passed, he had nobody.
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  And that was so sad for me to watch.
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  And it took him a while before he actually started going back
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  to church because he felt so hurt by what had happened.
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  And I mean, it took me a quite a while before I went back to
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  church. You know, I had my other, my own
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  issues with that. But, you know, I just felt bad
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  for him because like I said, he was already dealing with
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  everything he had to deal with at home.
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  He was already has having to deal with the toxicity of, you
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  know, the relationship between his kids and his wife.
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  And then he felt like one person he felt like he could turn to.
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  And so that was something that really affected me later.
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  And it didn't really, you know, I didn't think about it much
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  then because I was already dealing with my own stuff when I
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  sat down to write my book. And I was thinking about the
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  stuff my dad went through at that time and the stuff I went
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  through and the stuff she was going through, it just really
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  hurt my heart. Yeah, I could see that.
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  I'm so sorry that happened to you guys.
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  I could see where it'd be very painful.
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  We're in a good church now and that recognizes that there is a
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  whole nother component, not just the lack of faith or a lack of
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  reading the Bible or a lack of praying, That there is actually
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  a component to it. That if they don't feel like
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  it's something that they can handle, that they have a
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  counseling center that they are actually connected with and they
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  can refer people out. So I think that that's a great
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  thing to have as well. Amen.
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  Absolutely. Yeah, it's hard.
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  It's hard because I know I'm a ministry leader, too, and doing
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  all this, you always feel like you can handle all the things
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  that people come in with. But I think one of the first
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  things is recognizing that we can't and that we don't want to
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  do harm. Yeah, I'm in the medical field
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  too. And so we don't want to do harm,
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  you know, just do no harm. But we also, you know, you got
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  to recognize where your lines are and what your own bias are
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  before you try and handle everything.
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  Absolutely. Very well said.
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  Thanks. So your book came out in January
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  of this year, So what made you realize that now was the time
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  that this book needed to come out?
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  Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I had felt called to
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  write about 25 years ago, and it just seemed like this was the
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  right time. And for many years I kind of
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  beat myself up. I should be writing.
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  But now looking back, I just realized that God was developing
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  my character to match the assignment.
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  And I just, you know, some of it was I wanted my kids to grow up.
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  So, you know, being a pastor is enough of a challenge.
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  So then you try to write a book on the side.
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  And so my kids are now grown up. And so I had more time.
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  And then, you know, I had a professor in college say to me,
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  put your hand to the plow and see if God blesses it.
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  And that's what kind of happened.
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  As I just pursued this dream, God opened up doors I could have
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  never imagined. So yeah, I could tell you a
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  testimony after testimony of that.
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  But so I just felt like in the fullness of time, this was the
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  time I was supposed to do it so. So let's dive into it.
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  Like I said, there's four keys, so let's kind of talk about each
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  key and kind of generally what is talked about in each section.
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  Yeah. So when I began to research
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  again, just I kind of keep my own head above water.
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  I filled notebooks, I did all this research.
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  And one day I realized that everything I had learned could
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  fit into Luke 252, which says Jesus grew in wisdom and in
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  stature in favor with God, in favor of man.
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  So Jesus grew mentally, physically, spiritually and
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  relationally. And my big aha moment was that
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  if I want to stay as mentally healthy as I can be, I need to
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  do incorporate all four of those areas into my life, not just one
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  or two. 25 years ago, if someone would have come to me with
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  anxiety, depression, I would have said you need to pray more,
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  you need to read the Bible more. And those are the most important
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  things. But that's only one of the keys.
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  There's three others. So that's kind of messages
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  balance those four areas. And I kind of think of it like
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  an alcoholic needs to work their program for me to stay mentally
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  healthy as I can be. I need to work my program with
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  those four areas. So there's physical, mental,
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  spiritual and relational. Yeah.
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  And I just spoke with somebody yesterday who's Aaron Carey,
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  who's episode was actually on last week.
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  We were talking about how important the mental side and
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  the spiritual side and the physical side.
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  And then you also talk about relationships, how important
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  each one of those things are. And I think that I know I
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  haven't looked as much at the physical parts that could be
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  causing some of the mental health problems that we have.
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  I just never thought about it. Like I didn't think about stuff
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  with the gut. We always say exercising is good
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  for your body, mind and soul, like it's good for that.
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  But I think some of the physical sides, most people don't really
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  think about that. Absolutely, and that is that was
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  a big breakthrough was just the food you eat can affect your
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  mood. The exercise, like you said, the
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  thing that got me hooked on exercises when I learned what it
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  did for my brain, things like this, you know, it's
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  interesting. The chapter that I've probably
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  gotten the most feedback from in a positive was the chapter on
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  hydration. Just the simple act of staying
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  hydrated is good for your brain. Being dehydrated is, is
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  challenging on your brain. And then there can be the
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  biological component of mental health where I tell people God
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  may heal you through medicine or miracles and you need to be open
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  to both. He may heal you naturally or
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  supernaturally, and you need to be open to both.
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  And some people will say, well, if you're taking medicine,
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  you're not trusting God. And I say, well, you could say
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  the same thing about food. Why are you eating that food?
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  Why don't you just trust God to provide your nutrients?
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  So medicine isn't for everyone, but I do think for some people
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  it's what God will use to help. Right, exactly.
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  And when I saw that chapter, that was one thing I wanted to
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  wanted to talk about a little bit because we've talked so much
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  on the podcast about how, like you said, God could do a
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  miracle. He could heal you just like
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  that. There's nothing that stops him.
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  We don't have to put him in a box, but there's also times
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  where he doesn't, where he uses other methods, where medication,
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  counseling, just other aspects are things that he could be
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  putting in your life community. He could using all of those
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  things and that could be part of your healing journey and walking
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  the journey out. And some people will be on
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  medication until the day we see Jesus, and I may be one of them.
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  I'm on medication as well, so I may be on it until I see Jesus
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  and I'm OK with that. If He chooses to tell me to go
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  off of those, I will make sure that it's not my own brain
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  telling me that because you have to be very careful with that.
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  When people tell people that if you are on medications, you
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  don't trust God, I think that's so dangerous because you're
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  you're downplaying somebody's actual physical problem to the
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  point where they could go off their medications and have a
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  really drastic effect of that. Yeah, yeah.
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  And there's no stigma for taking medication for diabetes or a
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  thyroid issue or the heart. So what's the difference?
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  So yeah, I agree. Well said.
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  Thanks. Like I said, I mean, this is
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  something we've talked a lot about here on the podcast.
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  I will also say, and I've said it many times, it's a hill I
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  never wanted to die on, but considering the fact it was the
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  first chapter of my book, then I guess it's a hill that I'm on.
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  And that's OK because I think that we need to have more voices
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  in every place that talk about just how important your mental
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  health is, not just focusing on it for one month a year, but
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  focusing on it daily and doing something daily to help yourself
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  mentally. And I know I'm not saying I do
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  it right most of the time, You know, especially here in Ohio
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  and you in Minneapolis, you know how crazy the winners get and
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  how depressed we all get because we're stuck inside all the time.
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  You guys have 30 plus inches of snow.
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  When we get like 10, I'm like, I'm done.
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  So, you know, we just have to do other things during that time,
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  whether it's vitamins, making sure we do other things for
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  ourselves. Yeah, yeah.
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  You know, and I think something that really helped me, too, was
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  to realize that several of the giants of the faith struggled
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  with this. You know, like, I think about
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  Elijah in First Kings 18. He had the Super Bowl victory at
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  Mount Carmel. And in one chapter, he goes from
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  heroic faith to suicidal despair.
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  He prays to die. David wrestled with depression.
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  Think about Jonah, think about Jeremiah.
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  So you're in good company if you wrestle with mental health
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  challenges. And then there's people
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  throughout church history like Mother Teresa, Charles Burgeon
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  and Abraham Lincoln. And so that was something that
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  was very healing for me as well, is to realize that others have
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  wrestled with this as well. And they weren't bad Christians.
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  They were just human beings. You know, we all as human
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  beings. That's part of being on a fallen
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  planet as we all wrestle with different kinds of brokenness.
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  So that was also very helpful to me.
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  Is that understanding? Right.
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  Well, you talked about the verse in Luke, but are there any other
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  verses that keep you anchored? Yeah, I mean in general,
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  probably my favorite verse is Proverbs 3, five and six.
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  Trust in the Lord with all your heart, be not in your own
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  understanding and all your ways. Acknowledge Him and He will
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  direct your path. And it's interesting because it
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  doesn't say that we're to understand everything because we
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  won't and we're to trust God. And I've discovered that one of
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  the big things that I had to do for my mental health is give up
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  the illusion of control. And that word illusion is very
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  important because it's easy to I think that you have control,
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  that I have control over things that I don't and knowing what I
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  am in control of, which is self-control, not others
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  control. But definitely Proverbs chapter
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  3 that one is, is definitely an anchor verse.
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  Zechariah 46 not by might nor by power, but by your spirit sayeth
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  the Lord is another one that is really key.
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  So those are just a few that come to mind.
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  Yeah, those are such great verses.
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  Yeah. And I love how you talk about
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  the control issue because a lot of us have control issues,
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  whether it be something as small as I've got to make sure my day
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  lines up to all the way to some of us will not allow anybody
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  else to drive our cars because if we don't have control, then
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  we go crazy. So I think the more we talk
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  about it and you writing books like this and other people
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  writing books like this, it really does help the
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  conversation not have a stigma in the church and helps people
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  to know that there are people who are out there who really are
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  fighting a battle to make sure that that that stigma goes away.
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  So thank you for writing this. And I think that the one thing
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  people will really benefit from, not only do you break it down
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  into easy bite sized pieces for the keys, I think that's great
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  because I mean, some of your stuff is like 4 to 6 pages.
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  And I think that that's, that really helps people too.
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  And then also at the end, you do a checklist of care.
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  And I think that's for people who are really big on checklist
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  and who really like things organized.
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  I think that's really going to help people as well.
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  Yeah, I I sensed when the Lord gave me the assignment to write
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  the book that I'm a nerd. I like to read long books, but
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  most people don't. So just put it in a bite size
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  thing. And then the part that I like
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  the most is the beyond the book section because we have a
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  prayer. You have exercises just so how
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  do you not just learn it but apply it?
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  So and then at the end, the checklist is kind of the key
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  points of each chapter, so you can kind of review it quickly.
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  So yeah. I definitely think that this can
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  be a good resource for people who are in ministry in the
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  church to have to help to walk people through each of these
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  components. So thank you again for what
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  you've done. Where can people find you and
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  keep up with you? Will I do have a YouTube
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  channel, Pastor Steve Larson, And then the book is sold almost
• 19:55
  anywhere that books are sold. So those would probably be the
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  two main places. OK.
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  And I will put a link to your YouTube page in today's show
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  notes. Absolutely.
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  What is one final thought that you would have for someone
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  today? I would say it's OK not to be
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  OK, Just don't be not OK alone. In other words, victory comes
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  from vulnerability and talk to someone, get help.
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  There are higher summits of mental health available to you
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  if you get help. And so that would be my my
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  simple encouragement is don't suffer in silence.
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  Talk to someone who understands. Not everyone gets it, but one of
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  the big things of the book is I just wanted to open it up so
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  that people could feel free to share what the reality of their
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  life, not pretend like everything's perfect when it's
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  not. Amen.
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  Absolutely. You guys, just like Steve said,
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  it's OK to not be OK. Just don't keep it in.
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  Let somebody know where you are and if you have any questions,
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  you can get in touch with Pastor Steve, You can get in touch with
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  me, get in touch with your local people so that there's people
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  there that will walk this out with you because we're not meant
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  to walk this life alone. So don't hold it in.
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  Yeah, so. You guys have a great rest of
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  the day and I'll talk to you next episode.
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  Thank you so much for joining me for this episode, the anchor by
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  the Sore podcast. I pray that the story.
• 21:25
  That you heard. Today will encourage your faith,
• 21:27
  challenge your faith, and also help you as you walk in your
• 21:31
  daily life. If this episode has done that,
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  please feel free to. Leave a five star rating and
• 21:36
  review wherever you listen to this podcast so that others can
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  find it and grow as well. Have a blessed week and I'll
• 21:44
  talk to you next episode.