Latest / White Fox Talking / E32: Turning Trauma into Triumph: The Jacob Kelly Story

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E32: Turning Trauma into Triumph: The Jacob Kelly Story · White Fox Talking

• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to the White Fox Talking Podcast.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: I'm Matt Chalavallentine and the control is Seb.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Hello, seb, hi, how are you?
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: I'm very good, as always it's not what you say when we're not recording.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I'm a bit stressed at the moment.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, stressful time, so much work.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, going through Big changes.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, fair enough, I'm a commuter, but I'll commute to North Wales, which is a right-painting ass, back and forth.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm doing that right, I mean, it's one of them.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: It's about us.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: It's about us each way.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Look at the positive side.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: You can listen to loads of audiobooks.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I can.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, although the one I'm listening to at the minute is frightening.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: I'll be honest, it was one about sleep.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, that'd be interesting.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I won't mind putting a little series together, but this one goes into the science of it, 30-year studies and some of the chapters of like oh dear.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Does that mean we lost in life for working on doors in the other nights?
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people like myself that worked 25 years of night shifts, yeah, and things like not getting a solid eight hours sleep.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: I think in society we have this thing that I can survive on for five hours.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Well, you can do it.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: It's going to catch you out later on in life, yeah, so a bit worrying.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: So, let's get this done and then we can.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Then I can have a snow somewhere.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Well, who's in with us then?
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Well, this is another good one.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: These are the ones that you know.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Instead of going out and asking people, it's when people come and talk to us we might have a good story.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: So welcome, jacob Kelly.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: The White Fox Talking podcast is sponsored by Energy Impact.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: Hello, hello, thanks for coming in.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I know it's been a bit of a rush for you for giving up your time and, like I alluded to there, we had a chat.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I didn't know.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I've known you while I've known Tom, yeah.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I spent a lot of time with Tom.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Hello Tom, hello Tom.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: And that's why you've come onto a mental health podcast.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's what Tom's doing.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: It's not Tom, if you let me.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: No, no, I've been working with Tom and that's done it.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: No, so I'm weirded chat.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And then you were telling me about, before the music, before, what you're doing now being in the services.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: You know, and that's something that I'd like to talk about, I've had some friends that were in the services, some still with us, some unfortunately not, but that adjustment that they're making to civil life.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: So if you could tell us a bit of background about yourself and then we'll get into, if we could how you got into the services, what you were serving in and how long, etc.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: And then see where we go.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'll start off by saying that I definitely need eight hours sleep, do you?
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: I'm up for sleep, right yeah.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Sleep is my new thing.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: You know I love it.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: So you're right on that one.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: See, you're not the first guest who actually said this.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: We had Richard Cadenon Nine and a half hours, Rich Nine and a half hours.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Nine and a half hours.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know that's post-it.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: No, it was something like nine hours and 18 minutes yeah it doesn't work.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: And then we had Emma On, who also said her ideal sleeping time is 12 hours.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, what 12?
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: .
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Well, apparently female require more sleep than men.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know why, but it's been a study.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: But do you know what the thing is about this book I suppose we've all done it in the industries we worked with is you're trying to get more done, but you're probably getting.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: You're not probably getting as much done as you think because you're not as efficient and you're losing bits of your bread, to be fair.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah yeah.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Back to you.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm the sick.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, my name's Jacob Kelly.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: For those that don't know me, you can probably guess by my accent.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: I'm not originally from Leeds, although I can't really hear it anymore, right, but I'm originally from the armpit of the UK what, bradford?
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: No, the other armpit.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: The other armpit, western Supermer, right?
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: So, although I thought that would have made up place.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Well, if you went there you'd think it was.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: I do pretty much stress it up that I'm from Bristol.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Right, okay, bristol's a nice place, bristol's beautiful.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: You know, I've been living up here for over 20 years now 24 years, and I've said that if I ever move out of Leeds it would be back to Bristol or abroad.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: I couldn't.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: Leeds and Bristol are my two favourite cities in the UK.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: So yeah, born down south, moved up to Leeds, 24 years now married to a proper Leeds lass.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: You know Leeds runs for.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: We've been married 18 years, so it was a quick turnaround when I moved up.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: So yeah, you know and there was the story of how I've ended up in Leeds is part of the reason why I'm here and to talk you through how I went from being in school, leaving school, going in the army, coming out of the army and then trying to adjust into a civil life as you go.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: So if I was to ask why because there's people have a multitude of reasons for joining forces how come you decided from school to go into the thought?
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: What was school life like?
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to tell you about my story.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, now my story is my story, but from being in the army and being surrounded by other kids as we were when we joined the army.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: I can tell you that the story that is personal to me is also relevant to a lot of people that joined at that age.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: How?
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: old were you.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: I was 16.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, I was 16.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: So we go right back.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: My mum and real dad divorced when I was four and then I was brought up by my mum until I was 11 years old when my mum met another I can't even really call him a gentleman and then, from the age of 11 through to 16, I was what I would have called not brought up, but beat up.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: Okay, and I just want to point out at this point before we go any further, it's not a sub-story, this.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: I have no regrets, I have no remorse over how my life's panned out to now, because where I am now is the happiest place I've ever been.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: So there's no a well as me on this.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: This is all positive.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, this is sort of a good point for getting you in, really, because people go through these bad times.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: I know quite a few people that have ended up joining the forces that have had like stepfathers coming in all different partners.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's been violence.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: It's been a first chance to get out, isn't it?
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but then they all most well, most of them seem to be in a better place now, and this is why I want to get people on like yourself, so that people that are not in a great place may be inspired by that.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: There's always a way through.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: I mean my experience with that part of my life.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: It was a hard one.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: I'm of a vintage of an era where things were different.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: I don't want to say kids are lucky nowadays, but we're all lucky, and I know Mike's.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: But back then things were looked at differently and whilst all that was going on at home, none of my family really stepped in to intervene too much.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: My mum couldn't do anything.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: She's smaller than me, I'm a small person, he was a big person.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: None of my family really stepped in.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: Is what I would do if it was my son or Back then?
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: Was that all right?
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: I don't know, looking back on it, it probably wasn't.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: But so, yeah, the way out of it is like you say was to get out of that situation join the army.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Do you know, I'm just thinking, then, people of our age.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Well, what we think?
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: is, yeah, so of our age.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: You've got that where it's like it could be a generational pass on, and my father and mother and father were born just after the war and you've got all that trauma that went on during the war.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a talking second world war, so it seems like a long time ago to us.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: They've had to live with the after effects of war and then the actions of people that were probably traumatized, and then that gets passed on and passed on, and passed on.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: It does.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: You know, you can only change your attitude towards something once you step out of it.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: If you're brought up like you say, if your parents were brought up in a way, then they're going to bring their children up in a similar way, you know, unless they really want to step out of the way that they brought up and it just it takes that person to kind of step out of it and change the way that they look at their relationship with their kids and stuff.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: It's hard though, you know.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: So you say it's a generational thing.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: You know, like I said, I don't want to say that kids have got an easy list that you know.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: These days it's just different.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: I think it's different these days, isn't it?
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I would, at school, my I don't know if we spoke about this definitely the debut head.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, it was big on violence.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Kane and Slipper.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, did you get a cane All the time?
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I won't, even a bad kid will talk about this.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: I actually don't believe it.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: You know a little bit of high jinks, high spirits, but I actually saw him.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I've mentioned this before.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: I actually saw him in a supermarket, probably about 10, 15 years ago he must have been 80 then and I thought so I'll just pick him up and throw him in freezing.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Because what he'd sort of instilled I mean is that violence makes it all right, not makes it.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: You know, sort of that's the punishment instead of kids, young people.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: now, but then again was it his fault.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Because he's probably been told this is the way to deal with it.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: This is exactly what I was saying.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: It's a generation.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: It's like you know, if you're bad, you get punished.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: And that's how you get punished you either get a slap, you know, with a slipper, a cane or, in my case, a good-eyed in.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah yeah, I used to go into school with black eyes and bruises, you know, and it's just like.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Whereas I'm in a generation.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I got hit in school but I kind of made a fuss out of it and then didn't go to school for half a year because I said I was traumatised.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I wasn't.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you just wanted time off.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: I just wanted time off, just like a teacher.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: so you know, things were changing and it wasn't the right thing to do and my parents kicked up with us and I was like, well, I'll get out of it.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: We've got he's 18 in April, our son Rudy, and I've seen him go through his school, you know, from taking him to school and him growing up and how it's been at school for him and I'm just like, wow, I'd actually spend time at school and focus on school.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: School was like that when I was younger, you know.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Well, you say that, but when you live in that time you don't seem to realise, do you?
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: It's like afterwards.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: It's only in the last sort of 10 years I've started trying to educate myself.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: Never too late to say.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: From all the time that I've spent playing up.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so obviously not a great period in your life.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not the best, but we got through it.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: So did that make it all the easier to join the forces, or the forces like a yeah Sort of a bit of a savior at that time.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: So there was a number of factors.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: Obviously, the driving force was my own personal situation.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: I was in and feeling that I didn't have.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: You know, I had really good mates but my mates couldn't do anything.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: You know, we're all young, you know they can't intervene.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: Family didn't intervene too much.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: You know, I stayed a few bit you know my uncle's couch, my uncle Phil, and lodged a bit at Marley-Silvis.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: But I didn't feel that I had a support network.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: You know, as a kid, if family is such to help me, it was like Western Supermare.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: There wasn't a lot going on there.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: It's a seaside town, great in the summer for work.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: You know, winter that's, that's it.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: So I was like, well, let's go, let's go to the army.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: And yeah, just walked in.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: It was like an army recruitment in Western Supermare.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: It was like you had a shop where you could buy your cigarettes and your booze that and then I think, a pub next door.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: You know, it was just.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: It was that, and I just walked in.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: Next, thing, you know, there we are swearing allegiance and God, that's it.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: And then I was like, oh my God, come on done.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there it was.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: I was signed up, 16.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: And I remember the.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: So I did junior leaders.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure if junior leaders are still going.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: I don't think it is.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: So you could either do your eight weeks basic training or you could do junior leaders.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: Junior leaders was meant to be the more.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: It was a year long training and you were meant to learn more about the army and it was meant to be a bit more in.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: You know in depth.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: I think basically what it was.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: It was to get the younger kids in because you could join junior leaders at 16.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: So you were ready for the real army.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: You know, by the time you passed out and I can remember the, my dad was like, yeah, I'll drive you down to Bovington.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: It was like, well, junior leaders.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: I was just like, why so eager to drive me down?
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: But it all it was.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: So he had bragging rights that his son had joined the army.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: Okay, I was like, great, nice one.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: Cheers, dad, see you later.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I was.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: I called December, got dropped off and I was met by.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: He probably wasn't that big, but he was in my head.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: He was the biggest man I'd ever seen shouting at me this is your last chance to walk through those gates around my foot, up your ass.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: I was like shit, walk through the gates.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: And I was like, very quickly, late, as to my dad, and ushered into this gym hall, which I can still smell now, thinking back to it, and surrounded by a load of other 16 year olds with the same look of fear on our faces, or look at each other going, oh, what have we done?
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: And there it was.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: I was in, I was in too deep at that point.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Was this in colour or black and white?
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: It sounds like one of them black and white thoughts, don't it?
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Do you know what?
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: I think I look back on it as a black and white.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: So it does it sounds like On the wireless.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: All gathered round.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: And then silly big shots and a little vest.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: So what was so?
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: How was that then for a 16 year old for the next couple of years, adjusting to that?
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: To be fair.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, it was the first time that I'd probably been away from home life, so that was quite daunting, as much as I didn't have much of a home life.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: You know my friends and you know I was away from the place that I grew up in.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: But in all honesty, I kind of felt safe.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: I felt once I got my head around this is gonna be hard.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: Once I got my head around that these people were all in this, they were all in the same thing together and if we get through this, it's a self, it's a self pride.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: You know, you've achieved something.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah like accomplishments.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you've got yourself out of that situation into this situation and you've bettered yourself.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: We kind of all had that there, so we were sleeping.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: I think it was like 11, 12 to a room and you've got chance to sort of the brotherhood if you like build up, you know that relationship with people and as soon as you did that, it became a lot easier.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: You felt secure, safe, Part of a group.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Part of a group yeah, exactly yeah, exactly that part of a group that they'd have you back.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: You know you wouldn't with anything.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: Oh, can you help us out with this?
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, can you help us?
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: You had people to kind of ask and rely on.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: You know, and you were there, you know, you were in it.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: You were 16, running around.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Well, to start off with a bit of wood, pretending it was a rifle, because I didn't want to quite let you lose just yet, and you know, then running around with a rifle, you know, and doing quite exciting things hard, yeah, it's like the Scouts on steroids, isn't it?
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, scouts on steroids.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Were you in the.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Scouts.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: No, I was in the Army.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: Yes, I know you was in the.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: Army.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you were in the Scouts, that's the story we can't bring that up.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: We're not allowed to talk about that.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: It was good it was good, you know.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: Like I said, you know, it was the first step where I felt that I was starting to go on the right track.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: You know, with the life, and you had people around you.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: I suppose, like you said, which you've already mentioned, you didn't really feel that because of the situation at home, with the violence, I suppose yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: You know, it was like I said, not everyone was in there because of the same reason, but a lot of people, it seemed.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: A lot of people used that as an escape to get away from something.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: So what would that have been late 80s made to the 80s?
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: I joined in 91.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: Oh were you 91.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: That's me putting years on you, yeah.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: So, 91 and passed out during the leaders' night to join the real Army.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, oh yeah, and how was that?
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: And what did you join?
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Completely different to what.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I'd all done Right.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: So I passed out into the RCT, which is the Royal Corps Transport, which is now the RLC, royal Logistics Corps, which that changed.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: They amalgamated it in 1994.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: Thing, I've got it on my notes as I know it, for If I'm wrong I stand, corrected it.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I did.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: We've been RCT Transport.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: They sent us up to Leckenfeld, not too far from here, and we all did our driving courses, which is brilliant and I love this at the moment because I would have been 16, 17, and with same age as my son now, and he's just starting to learn to drive and obviously he gets a driving instructor to come and pick him up in a nice plush car.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: We were just literally put in a truck and said have you driven before?
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: No Right, let's go out on the roads in a truck.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: And I was just like what the fuck?
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: And the advice was don't worry, no one wants to hit you.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Everyone's scared of you.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: You're bigger than everyone.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: Everyone know we're up here, knows you're driving.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: You haven't driven before, so don't worry, you just crack on yeah.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, I did spend I think I can't remember how long until you passed the test up in Leckenfeld.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Then I went back to a holding troop and within the RLC you have different squadrons and I really wanted to do and join a squadron, a squadron called 47 AirDispatch, which I think now is part of 13 AirDefense.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: I might be wrong, I might be wrong.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: So 47 AirDispatch is a very small specialized unit within the RCT, rlc, which predominantly works very closely with special forces, so with the SAS, the SBS, the Paras, the Marines, and we used to fly around in wait.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: First off, you had to pass I can't call it selection, because that is obviously something else, but a selection process, right, which was based on fitness and your aptitude and whether you could actually hack it flying around in a big plane and et cetera, et cetera.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: So I think there was something like 40 that started in about 11 that passed that, and our job predominantly was to fly around in Hercules, the big C-130 planes which have just got grounded which is such a shame.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Never felt I'd be emotional over a bit of machinery?
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: Yes, we used to fly around and resupply the troops on the ground with fuel, ammunition, food.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: We used to dispatch landrovers, tanks, boats, and it was amazing.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: We used to just hang out the back of these big planes, you know, and out the side doors and fly low level and it was amazing.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: There's a photograph somewhere of Short Circle.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: He's going down one of the valleys, one of the mountain valleys, and the guys just sat on the back, just tethered on with a door open, and you're like, I don't fancy that.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: Oh, it was amazing.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I definitely fancy that would you, no yeah it seems it was such a good one.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure I'm climbing, but I'm in control of that Well, apart from other week when I fell off.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wow.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Well, you usually did the tether on it.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: You know when you said the tether.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: What you used to have to do when you first passed?
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: You had to do a confidence test.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: So do you know old military webbing?
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: You just put it through a hoop and you just quick release, pull like that.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: That's all it was.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: So you had to a belt.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: It went down to you.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: That was attached to the power cable, parachute cable and what you had to do is you had to stand on the tail and lower it down and they'd call you forward.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: And you had to stand on the tail and, whilst the plane was flying, hold your hands out like in star position and just lean out.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Lean forward like that, and whoever was taking you for it would just come up with the other end of a belt, another belt, and just hang it over your shoulder Right.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: You're like oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh oh.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: Just to see you're like, you're right, you're really testing it, but it was such a buzz.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Did a lot of people not pass that.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: I know everyone passed that it was just like to see the look on people's faces.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: It wasn't for any other purpose apart from that.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: Like for them to enjoy.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Pure bullying.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, it was best, it was best.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: So you timed that with.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, that sounds like you pretty much enjoyed it, I loved it, loved it.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: It went places.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: You know that I would have never have gone to experienced things that never had.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Did you go?
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: back home.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: In that time I was visiting home and what I was just interested to what?
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: How that panned out.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, we went back.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: I went back on leave quite a few times Not for a long period of time Then things at home, after speaking with my mom on the phone and everything you know checking in, I then found out, or she admitted, that he was also violent to her, which she covered up for my benefit and for you know well, she says my benefit but so that was quite a big one to take on.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: So they actually separated in my opinion.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: So when I did get back it was quite raw.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: She you know mom was obviously upset with everything and he was still.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: He wasn't living there but he was still knocking about.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: So I kind of, whenever I went home, I'd always find an excuse to bring one of the lads with me.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: You know, oh, come on, let's go to Western, it'd be a right laugh.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: We've got one put.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, was that like the selection process?
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the torture, the torture bit.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: So I'd always, you know, I mean I would love, oh, look at these lovely boys you're bringing.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: Oh, I mean it's a bit weird.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: But yeah, so I can remember.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: One day he came round the house and mom answered he didn't know that I was home, he didn't know I'd you know.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: A couple of lads were here and yeah, I can remember in his voice and my whole body just froze and I could feel the blood, my blood boiling.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: And I said to the one I just remember, just looking over I think it was Aliotli I remember looking over my shoulder and going you ready, cause I was like I'm going to rush this door and he's going to get it, and I just pulled him out of the way.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: I can't even remember what I said.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: Probably didn't even say anything, it was just probably noise that came out my mouth and he just kind of laughed at me and I was just like fuck.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: But yeah, so I didn't, I went back and you know.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: But then after a while, Was there any physical interaction?
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: No, he would, because, as much as I wanted to, I just knew that that wasn't the answer.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean, God?
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: I would have loved to you know, but where's that going to get?
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: me.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: And the other thing is is, whilst by then my mum and him had had another child, so I had a younger brother.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Okay, and it just that-.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Complex.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: that makes it complex Beating up your brother's dad having a go anyway.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: That doesn't just sit right at all, does it?
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: You know it's?
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: It's quite like you say it's complex.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Was that your only confrontation towards your stepfather, or did you have any no, and another one.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: He used to play rugby for Western Super Bowl rugby team and you know, fair play to him he was good, really big club, that Really massive.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, massive, you know, I mean he was, he was, he was good, you know, got to give him props and that I suppose.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: And he, I was home on leave but I was with my girlfriend at the time and there's a bar in on the seafront called the Cabo and it's got an upstairs and that's where the club bit was and it's got a sweeping staircase and the bouncer used to stand on the this sort of the balcony bit, not the balcony, the landing bit for the net step to go down and use Q at the bottom and there's one in, one out vibes.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: You know the scope.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Dots up provides all the goals.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry, I do apologise and I remember walking down and spotting him and he was with the rugby team and they all knew, you know, they knew what happened to me, they knew about him and my mum at this point this is a few years down the line and I said to my girlfriend at the time I said just go, just get out of here, because if this goes it's gonna go.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: I don't want you to see it and I walked down the.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: There's the first set of stairs.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: I remember just a decade, remember standing there and going.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, you see this man here.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: He used to beat me up as a kid and he used to smack my mum about and it went deadly silent and it was like everyone parted out my way and he walked towards me and he came at me with the square on punch, straight, bang, straight flat on my nose, and I just stood there and I was like don't fall over, don't fall over.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: And I just went you haven't changed.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: And I walked out and I literally collapsed, right outside the door yeah.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: I was like oh but that was it.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah again, I just walked away from out of sight.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, but it was humiliation for him in front of the people.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Which is probably a very good thing to do.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know there's no point in fighting.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: There's no.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: You know, it doesn't matter how much, you know it rolls you up inside, you're not gonna get anything from it.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: And who knows how many stories have you had the unlucky punch?
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know you don't wanna put yourself in that place, do you?
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: You know you better off being the bigger person and walking away from it.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: The person that wants to fight is gonna get to be more pissed off with that, you know.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so if we got, how long were you with the services, then with the army?
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: I'd say it was eight years.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Oh really, yeah, it wasn't a long period of time.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Well, if you said eight years, it's that's when you joined at 16, that were a third of your life at that point.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, if you look at it that way, yeah, that's all right, that's too long.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm just looking at that thing of your childhood, for your teen years hasn't been great, and then you've done eight years in the forces.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: So, one, what made you leave?
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: And two, what was it like when you left?
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Because you've not really made independent choices, have you really Apart?
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: from joining up.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, you fit the nail on the head there perfectly.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: The reason why I left is, I mean, when I was in there wasn't any.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: I didn't do any active service.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: You know, I got to go and see a lot of things and do a lot of things I was still very young, you know and we lost you know I lost a few friends through your troop members, your mates, you know, your buddies, and they were through things that happened through the services you never had to.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: You know, unfortunately, a couple of planes fall out of the sky, and you know lots of crew members and not just air dispatch but the whole crew.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: You know it's quite a big thing you never knew.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: You know I was flying I don't know up to two times a day, low level.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: You know you don't know what's happening when you're stepping foot on a plane.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: It's not like stepping on a flight to wherever you know for a holiday.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: You're stepping on a plane that is getting thrown left, right and centre with a lot of weight in it.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: You know you don't know what's going to happen.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: So I kind of that was one triggering thing and I kind of thought if I get out now, I'm still young enough to kind of make a start of my life, or do I stay in, have that security blanket and come out the other end, you know 20 odd years down the line and be really comfortable.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: But then what happens in that period between?
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: You know you're in, you know I couldn't see my life in you know doing a full term.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, full of it.
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: I had good mates on the outside, in Sydney Street, whichever however you want to call it, and I was like you know what?
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: You know, I think I'm going to get out.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm feeling like I'm going to get out.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: It was hard.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: It was hard to get out because they didn't want.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: You know they spent all that money training you up, especially for air dispatch.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: You know the cost of training an air dispatcher up was huge.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: So they didn't want you to leave and I was just like no, I'm going to do it, I'm going for it.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, I took that leave and just survive.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: I've done, you know, I've enjoyed every second of what I've done, but I think now's a good time to leave.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Did you have anything to go to, or was it just like out and right now I'm going to?
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Just got to think what I've got to do.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they gave me.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah again, I mean, this is down to how it was then.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: Now is probably a whole lot different, you know, but they gave you a settlement, but it wasn't anything amazing.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: They're like, well, what do you want to do?
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: I was like, well, what's the choices?
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: And it's like sales, I'm fucking up.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: I thought I'd do so.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: I went on a sales course.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: And they've services provided that.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they've paid.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: It sounds a bit like a school.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: What's the call?
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: You know when they used to come around him.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, careers of ours.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it comes around.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: It was not very in depth, it was almost like well, you've made the decision right off, you go, type thing, you know?
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, again, I expect it's very different now, you know, and then that was it.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Done, done.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: How did it feel?
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: then how did it take time to sort of?
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Was it a waking up or realization?
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: scary feeling If I was to tell you now, at the age of 48, I've just got the hang of this life.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Right, I'm not sure what I ever do.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: I'll be honest.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure what we do.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Honestly.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: That kind of makes sense though, doesn't it?
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're kind of like eight years behind, exactly that.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: And it's only two years ago when I started realizing I've got this now and starting to realize actually I'm feeling okay, you know, I'm feeling okay about where I'm at in my life now.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm happy I've got a job, I've got a career, you know.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: And then I looked at it and you're right.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: It was like hang on a minute, I'm eight years behind people.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, I'm right.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: They say you start living in your 40s, you know.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, so was it.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: You were basically like an older looking teenager.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: I'm just like yeah, I'm gonna have that.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm an older looking teenager, yeah, yeah, but the transfer from you hit the nail on the head.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've known guys that have been in forces all their lives and it's in fact we get someone, you know, you get someone mountain leader stuff that we're doing in courses, and some people you think, can you not?
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Why can't you do this?
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: It's because they haven't had to make them decisions, because they think they've been told the best, being given direction for all the career.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: You think about it.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: If you join at 16, you're gonna be able to do it.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for all the career.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: You think about it.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: If you join at 16, you aren't to worry about bills.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Bye, grown-ups stuff.
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: Let's face it, grown-ups stuff, you know where it's.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: By your food, you know anything, cook any, just you talk to iron.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: So look after your personal hygiene.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Your rent's taken out your wages straight away.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: Your food's taken out your wages straight away.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: You don't have to worry about a roof over your head.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: You don't have to worry about you know anything really, apart from you, just focus on being a soldier.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: So if you join at 16 and then you leave, let's say eight years, like me, I'm like, well, I'm out into the wild here and things spiralled.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Right and not in a good way.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: Not in a good way.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: Not in a good way and, like I said, you know it's not a where is me story, it's like and it you know that happened to get to where I am now, you know.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: So it's a positive thing, but you know, I'm fortunate because you hear and see stories of troops that have come out and they're homeless.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: You know they're on the streets begging and you can get your head around.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Why then yes, yeah, we have a big thing in this country about ex-servicemen on the streets.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: And am I right in saying this?
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Some people they don't want to be in that normal life.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: It's hard to adapt if you're being in that yeah.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: It's hard, you know, but then, yeah again, you look at, this is gonna sound really bad when I say this.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: You look at that, that story of the soldier that's been in.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: They've come out, they can't adapt, and now they're on the streets begging.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: Then you've got the other side to it.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: Are there people using that?
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: yeah.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: That haven't been in which belittles.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I think we get that.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we definitely get that, really.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's a tough one to look at that because you can't I mean, you can always go up and say, okay, what's your service number?
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: You never forget your service number, 250-275-9, but you know, if they know it.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: But you don't want to start questioning that, do you?
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: You know it's like they're hard up as it is, you know.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, it's, I moved.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: I suppose I didn't know any better.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: I thought let's get out.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Where did it take you mentally from losing that Because you've gone into services from not in a great place because of the violence from?
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Was it your stepfather?
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, so from your stepfather.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: So you've gone in mainly because of that.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: So you've had a few years of abuse, a few years of violence.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: You've gone in because of that.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: You haven't got that support network around you, the family network that have not probably stood up to this guy.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: By the sounds of it, although don't want to make assumptions and then you've got this comfort, you've got this world around you where you looked after because you're an asset in what you're doing and the pain for you, and then you come out and it's like oh right, shit, lost yeah.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: Lost, back to square one.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: You don't know who to turn to.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: Really you don't know a support network that's gone, that's out of the window, or your friends.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: They're kind of in relationships and jobs and careers, and, apart from driving something which I didn't really want to do, pushing stuff out of a plane that doesn't exist in civilian life, or knowing how to use a rifle not very handy or it's bit frowned upon, do you know what I mean?
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: It was kind of like I didn't know where I was or what to do at all, so I moved to London.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: Big, wide world, then yeah yeah, well, that's where everyone goes, isn't it London?
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: Of course it is.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Didn't like it, it was a mistake, you know just.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: I've said that a few times when I've been in London.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: What?
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: am I doing there, and that's just for the day.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: I'm out in my depth.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: I'm a Northerner in London.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: It's not great.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: How much for a pint.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah well, definitely yeah.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: So what were you looking for and what were you hoping to find in London?
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: I have no idea, and I still don't know what my trail of thought was or anything.
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: It was just we're going to London.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: I didn't want to move back to Western Supermer because it was kind of stepping back.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Do you know what?
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, well, I've been like a defeat.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: Not a defeat as such.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: It was just like I don't know.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: I think I still had something to prove to myself and I think I might have been a bit too proud of like, oh, I'd want to go back there.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Do you think it might have been a waste of the eight years if you'd have gone back?
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: Maybe, maybe, maybe it might.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: However, I did end up back there.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Because, After two days in being in London.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly that Run out of money in two days.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: I just couldn't get my head around how money worked.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: You know, I had a little bit of salary left over from the army to kind of get me through and I just didn't understand how that worked.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: So money you just said like money in London gone isn't it.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: So I was just like right, this was a mistake.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: I'll move back to Western and there it was Right, without being causing controversy and complaints.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Look at that.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: I said that.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Oh no, what's it going to say?
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: It's not a fair comparison, I suppose, but there's got to be somewhere.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: If someone had served eight years in prison and then they get released and they're not adjusted back into society, do you think it's very similar?
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Not on the, I can't.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Obviously it's got to be looked at differently.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously I haven't served time personally so I can't give a Don't say that you know I'm not on route for serving time either.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: I can imagine there's a lot of similarities.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: I just wondered and the question just popped up because if someone's been in prison, then generally they don't get a break.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: They deserve everything.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: They get and people will tend not to help.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: Give someone a helping hand but.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: If you've been in services.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: Funny.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: You used to say that I mean looking back on it.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: Now I mean looking back.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: When I left the army, I had a chip on my shoulder.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: I thought the world owed me something because, hang on a minute, I've put my ass on the line.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: I might have only been eight years, but I had the guts to put my ass on the line for Queen and Country I'm really not a royal list or anything and I thought, well, hang on a minute, I'm owed something here, you know.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: And looking back on it was a horrible way to be.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: I was expecting shit out of people because I'd done what I'd done.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: It was a job.
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: At the end of the day, looking back on it, that's all it was.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: And I think my attitude didn't help a lot either.
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: You know, with that I didn't want to do a job, I wanted to do something better than you know, whatever I could get, I wanted to do the best thing.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that you had to work your way up.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: You know that kind of my attitude spank it really did so with your stinking attitude.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Where did that take you?
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Because obviously that's a mindset in it as well, and if you're not getting what you wanted and what you're expecting, then you can get a bit of anger and then go, I suppose, in late superfond like a descending circles.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: I moved back to West and my mum had moved out of the house, which everything happened in time.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: But I ended up staying there whilst it was on the market and, yeah, just couldn't find my way, apart from finding my way to the pub.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: I found that very easy and I started getting in debt because I wouldn't earn any money.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: Start getting loan money off my mates, you know.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, again, it was just my attitude to stank and drinking a lot.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: So was that an escapism?
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Probably yeah.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: I just didn't want to be in the real world again, I suppose.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: It's very common though, isn't it, in this country?
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: especially.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just that drinking culture.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: I mean I definitely did it with the PTSD at first thing.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: You know like how can I fit in while I've got to be drunk?
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's only where I could tolerate being around people really.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard, isn't it?
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: And it's just available.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's there.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: You can just walk in essentially as a shop, with people and buying the same thing.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly yeah.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: But if you go, out and drink.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: if you went out and drank tan pint, you're a bit of a hero, yeah.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: Because if you said that you're doing I don't know 10 hits, a very one a day, then it's like yeah thrown upon.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: From up, yeah, yeah.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I mean yeah.
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean looking at drugs.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: You know the booze.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: I joined in the Army at 16, I had time to experiment.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: You know you kind of yeah, you shouldn't do it.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: But you know everyone kind of dips their toe in Younger age, maybe to try out pills or whatever, speed coke or whatever.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: I bet there's a lot of that in the German Army.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: I am actually.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: There was at one point.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: Who told you that?
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: I had no guy that once served, did a little bit of work with him, yeah.
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I kind of played.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: I think you know I discovered drugs.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: Again, I was scared.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I was scared because of that.
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, just you know, just that, like fucking yeah, if I take a pill, everything's all right.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: Oh, fucking hell, what's this?
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: Cocaine, yeah, or something like that.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: It'll make my attitude even better.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you want to see my stinking out of your mouth.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: I'm really arrogant right now.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: And yeah, I kind of like I got quite into it.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: You know I was good at it.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: No, it was it kind of it kind of it got to me and so I was doing drugs, doing alcohol.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Was this in a party situation or by yourself, or?
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: It got to a stage where I was doing coke by myself and then, you know, that's when I was like right, okay, this shit's got to stop.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: You know I got ill.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: I got ill, you know I could feel myself you know no nutrients in my body and stuff like that.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: My mates, you know, were just like look, I need that money back.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: And you know I was just loaning more money off them and shoving it up my nose or drinking it you know, and I was just like oh, come on, you know I'm down, Get a grip, Come on, you know, really I'm in trouble with word of myself.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: Right, let's let's, let's, get the fuck out of this.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: So did you manage to get out of it by yourself, or did you have to get to speak to her?
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: No, I, I, I, you know I did.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: I got out of it by myself.
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying that was the end of the story, you know, by no means you know it's it.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: When I moved, when I got up to Leeds, it kind of, you know, got back into the Leeds part.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I think what was sort of a.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: I think all three of us are wise enough to know through his own experiences of working in night scene and there's a difference between a party and going in on a party scene and a party by yourself.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, party for one's not good.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: No, party for one's not good, that's when it becomes a distraction.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Escapism, yeah, rather than an enhancement of your evening.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: That's when you've.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: You've either got to acknowledge it or someone's got to give you a you know a helping hand to say right, if you're doing that by yourself, you need to stop it.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: You know it could have been a whole different story.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: You know, for any of us, if you know, if you're kind of enjoying something too much, you know you've got to have people around you just to help you pull you out, or you've got to have the yeah.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: Give you that realization really you know, yeah, yeah, so yeah, just, and then that was it.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: I had to get out of Western because of those reasons.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: So this is like the third big decision you made in your life, really, isn't it?
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the first one was I'm going to the army.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Second one I'm leaving the army, yeah.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Third one I need to leave Western because yeah, I'm going to mess.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, me and my mate, who partied quite heavily as well we were both.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: I was just like I'm going, I'm moving out, you know, I've got to sort myself out.
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: And he said oh yeah, you know, I'll be up for moving out of Weston.
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: And we came up with this genius, genius plan of how we were going to get out of Weston, where we were going to go.
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: We were drunk at the time, best plans, yeah.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: And we got a map of the UK and we put it out on the floor and we said, right, I'm going to get a pen.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: Right, we're going to turn around, we're going to throw this pen over our shoulders, right, wherever it lands, so where we're moving to, right, okay, this is it.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: So like maps out on the floor, sweaty palms, right, this is the big moment.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: You know, like this really would be the thing.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: And we threw the pen over our shoulders and it turned around and it landed bang on Birmingham.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Really, yes, we picked it up and we did it again.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: Wow, Sorry for everyone from Birmingham but it just wasn't where I wanted to go at that time.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, too close to Weston I thought you were going to say Skagnes or something like that, it still sounds like it was still in black and white.
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, we're still in black and white now.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: We're not at technicolor yet.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: That comes at the end.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: So can I ask, were you into music then?
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, my best mate.
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: He was my best man as well.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: I went in.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: It goes under the name of little Mark.
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: It's called Mark Currell.
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: He moved to Weston when I think we were 11, 12 and he was from London and he was very exotic in Weston London, all right, mary.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: He moved with his family to Weston.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: We were at the same junior school together and then he went to a different secondary school and I went to, but we were thick as thieves Still thick as thieves now.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: He was massively into house music.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: He was kind of.
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: He got older and he is still his.
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: He's an amazing producer and amazing DJ and he kind of like I looked up to him, although he's, I think, slightly shorter, if you're listening, mark, I'm taking that one.
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: I always looked up to him.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: When I was in the army he was doing music.
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: So when I used to see him I used to kind of like hang out.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: We used to, you know, just used to play records, just watch him, and he yeah, it was him that got me into music.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: So when I got out, that was kind of like something I kind of went back into.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: I probably should have mentioned before that that's where you are.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: You're sort of our now, is it?
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, events music DJing, I suppose, if you look at it in a way of a business.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: I've been within it for about 20 years.
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: Right, I've DJed, produced, had studios, owned a record store, owned bars which are based around music.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: I now have an events company that hire out sound systems and DJ equipment and we had a little festival.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: He did.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: I got taken on from that.
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: Which you were at Apparently.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you didn't come to that.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: Was that the one in Barnse?
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: No, wakefield.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Is that another festival you got taken on?
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: Take him on which is.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: America With Tom yeah.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: With Tom.
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: Ford, who mentioned it at the start.
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I suppose my career is still within the music business.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: So, on the lines of us being a mental health giving information, what's the music done?
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: As it works miracles with you?
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: Has there been something through music that's helped with your mindset?
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Do you think Because you've lasted 20 years on this without changing?
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, by the look of it, you've done a few things, but around music, but all of them decisions up to coming to music have all been big decisions, haven't they that have just changed.
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, changed in our life direction.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: What I will say is it's a tightrope Right.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: It's a very, very wobbly type right A tightrope.
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: There are two sides to it and you've got to be really careful.
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: I've seen and been in both sides of it Right, the dark side of it and the side that I'm in now and touch wood will continue to be in the positive side, the music scene, as everyone knows, especially the music scene that's based around well now, every music scene, it doesn't matter whether it's electronic or not.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: There's a dark side to it which involves drugs and drink.
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: There's no denying that.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: You go out, you go to a gig, people get pissed, people take drugs.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: It's happened for generations.
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: It will always happen.
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: There's the other side of it where a lot of people that have been on the drinking drug side realise that that's no longer for them and they go into the more sober side, the more healthy side of it.
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: We know people you mentioned the guy earlier.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: We had Brandon on, didn't we?
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: Brandon Block on one of the early shows.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: His fame and notoriety led to his fame, didn't it?
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: We're both.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: How much were you carrying then?
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: But now he's working with all these charities and doing the mental health stuff.
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: It's such a great story.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: We'll come back.
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: When you look at people like him that work, I'll turn it down something Like you say.
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: Infamous, famous for taking a lot of.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: It was the parties, but then obviously the media got all of it, didn't?
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: it.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: So he's playing space tennis and all that and a super-famous party, but then obviously media and advertising it as all this drug taking which he talks about openly and which he's passing on and teaching, much like we're talking about now.
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: I suppose, like I said, because I've been on two sides of it, it's damaged my mental health to the point of rock bottom, where I was stood underneath a tree looking for a bit of rope to hang myself to that point, which then has springboarded me to the other side of it.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: So come back stronger.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: Do you think Massively?
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: Massively.
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: It was when I had, I think, for quite a long period of time, I was battling with depression, and it was at the time where I was opening the 212, which is the first bar that I opened and realizing shit.
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: I'm surrounded by drink a lot.
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: This is my job now.
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: People coming in to buy a joint drink no joint drink in the.
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: After a while you're kind of drinking and drinking more.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll just have one, I'll just have one and then you're drinking quite heavily and then obviously you're surrounded by other temptations all the time and it kind of outweighed me and that then triggered my depression more to when I ended up on antidepressants and I think they say you shouldn't drink antidepressants.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: There's a reason for it and I remember just not coming home early enough.
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: My wife does breakfast radio.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: At the time she did breakfast radio.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: We had asked that's Georgia, by the way.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Georgia.
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: I love you.
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: I, you know I was going to tell this story, so it's no shock to her and our son was about seven, eight, and it was my job to take him to school and we missed it, and Georgia had to put our son in a taxi at that age because I'd stayed out, and it just that was it Right.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: I was like I'm not fit to be a father, I'm not fit to be a human, and I just walked and walked and then, let's see, you know, I was there and if there was, I reckon if I found a bit of rope, that would have been the worst decision I would have made, you know, because I didn't need to do it.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: But when you're in that mindset.
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when the drugs and alcohol have just beaten you and eaten you out that much.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we spoke, didn't we?
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: We've recorded a podcast about my, so Pete just didn't start it.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: And we did mention during the lockdown I'd lost a friend he took his own life and we were drinking too much and I'd gone out to a party actually you know, an illegal lockdown party.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: I got home at five in the morning and I was just like I could actually hear me climbing.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: I've got a house full of climbing rocks.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: I know, you know, my mum had died and all this lot and looked Basically getting into debt because I wasn't getting paid out and just heard these climbing ropes talking to me saying, just do it, just do it.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: And I think if I hadn't had gone through all my stuff a long time ago the PTSD stuff, yeah, and gone through that 10 years of and I just went, you know, I'll think about it, I'll sleep on it and I'll have a little think tomorrow when I get up and you're like now I've thought of sober mind, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: So yeah, there was a.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: I mean the decision could have changed the whole story, you know?
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: We both wouldn't have been here, you know.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I had the ropes.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought I kept them away from you oh no, yeah, I was just good driving that way you live.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: No, no, I know, can't borrow a rope.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: Do you know what I actually?
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: It's comical when you think, Well, it's not, but he got that and I actually thought all my friends are going to slag me because that's a waste of a good climbing rope.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: No, you didn't use that one, did you?
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: No, no, no he had a 150-quid rope on his trunk, anyway, but yeah, we got through that through experience and so, yeah, yeah, but it is one of these things that you I suppose you can see why people are getting that position when they've the depression, bad mood, poor mood, lack of sleep.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: I'm reading this book that made it about you know lack of sleep which is possibly caused by the drugs, and then the alcohol is a depressive anyway, and then someone makes a decision like that and it's.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not coming back from it, so no.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: And it.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: I mean you've got to be in a dark place to even think about that.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: But I mean you know this, Seb, I don't know if you do and if you have fair plays for being on the other side of it.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: That's that decision.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: It's literally a split second of do I don't, I don't is, Don't have a think about it.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah do you?
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: know what I mean?
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: It's it's Quick.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: Is that?
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: It's that's it?
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've a think about I was much as in like getting a total.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna get this to think about it.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think we mentioned that.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: If we ever put it out, we will put that out.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just gonna say, adam mentioned that as well, didn't he?
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: when I'm yeah, yeah, it's podcast.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: And again, that was an alcohol-related one one.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: It was here.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just your head's not on your shoulders.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Wait till it is well it's this, it's this subconscious voice in it telling you, this angry chimp in your head telling you you need to do that, you need to do that, you need to do that.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: And then yeah but that voice gets stronger due to the influences that we're putting ourselves.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, stress as well and all sorts of suppose.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but fortunately you're here, yeah, no, glad you're here.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you very much.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: There's gone.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: Glad to be here.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: So where we at?
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: Where do we at now on this upward trend?
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: So the upward trend is like okay, so you know I.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Bet JoJo gonna not pony out here for that.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: I do?
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm?
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: Probably I'm, I don't know she's a big addict, ain't she?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously you know we've been married.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: At that point I'm not gonna do the match.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: We've been married 18 years.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: You know, without Joe by my side I probably wouldn't be here, do I mean that?
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: That's that's fact.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: You know I, you know everything my life to Jojo because she's she's had to put up With me being depressed.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: I, anyone in the relationship where one person's depressed and you've got to support that person, that has got to be such a toll on a relationship, such a such a big thing.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: So, you know, hats off to anyone that support and they're over half In that situation and do it.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: You know, stick with it, because they will pop out the other side.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: You know they all of a sudden, everything you know Will sit right and hopefully pop out stronger for for the experience, yeah.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah but you, you know, like, so, you know, I had Jojo, you know, and she was just a massive support, you know, and helped me come through and and Out the other side of it and then on the on the way up, you know to, to where I'm At now, which is, like I said at the start, best play, and I've got this, the angle of this life thing, you know.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good, it's good to see that, really good to see.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: I was just thinking then, you know, we get the support of Jojo and whereas If you had it have that support and it had been a group of sort of male friends, it might have been that sort of something out.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, on the fuck up.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got to consign to the dustbin.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: It's got it, that's the a, it's that's gotta go.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: I mean it.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: Fortunately it's still got that, that kind of weird feeling asking your mate are you all right, are you really all right, do you know?
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: I mean it can feel really awkward.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: You like, if you want to talk about anything.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: I think I'd rather have pain.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: We can go out and have a pint.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: What you getting out?
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: What do you know?
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, it is difficult, it's, it's, it's hard, and I know when people ask me Are you, how are you now?
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: Hmm, I'm fine, you know, and I still feel weird.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm actually a bit shit inside.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, but yeah, you've got to get past that.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: So from now, yeah, what we got on, what's what's happening with bar music festivals?
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: I know you've organized a little get together when I'm not here you've got organized around my diary.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: I know I have to be performance at the festival.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: I know it definitely was out.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: If it's anything, it would want you back Highly entertaining.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah well, I love it life in a field.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, loving the field touching me touching me hippie ways.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: I'm getting married barefoot.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: Where you running around naked?
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: not quite no, but it would be cold, for that I would have embarrassed myself.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: So what would we go on?
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: So wrapping up and fortune?
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so basically I came out the bars, you know, left that life behind for for lots of reasons, but it just you know the bars are going in a different direction to what I set out to do and they're still surviving now.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: And you know she was still running it now and hats off to him.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: You know he's got through a difficult situation with COVID.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: Myself I launched airstream events, which is now kind of molded into a Higher company.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: It sources a higher company for DJ equipment, whether it's mix of CDJs, turntables and sound systems and and that's really really taken off.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: That's.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: I've kind of found my groove with that excuse the pun and I'm DJing still, but just picking out the gigs that I want to do, rather than.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: You know I never pushed myself as a DJ, I kind of taken a backseat, but just choosing the gigs that are right for me, ones that are in the daytime, so I can get my eight hours.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I will.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: I will tell you this book when we finish this.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's scary.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: It's scary when you think of how much sleep we've not had, yeah, so I think I'm fortunate I've got to wrap up that.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: Nice, that's cool.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: But first of all, thank you for talking to me and mentioning it and you'd be prepared to come on.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: It's really good story and it's hopefully and thank you for talking to me too.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: Thank you for your story.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: Before we went on, I did be talking to me before we spoke here said come on.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: I don't feel offended.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: I told you how it took us five episodes to get him to talk.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you can't stop, the camera is not on him.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's very shy, very shy off camera.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: He'll tell you anything.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, won't he, it's not the shy retiring guy that that we're presenting here.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: So, as we're saying, yeah, thanks for coming up to me and saying that you're the person who a podcast, and then coming in and speaking to me and said yeah, I'm sure the listeners will love it, and Anyone that's sort of going through something in a situation or sampling, unfortunately, bits that you've gone through, will be inspired.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I hope, I hope you know.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on, it's been nice, it's been a therapy, so getting a bit of well, you said you'd listen to dickos, and yeah it's been good.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much for having me on right, definitely Thank you very much for sharing your story.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: Cool so said Chances, yeah, yeah wrap it up and go.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, see you later.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Take care, bye.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: Wow, what a story, yeah, jacob.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty impressive in it.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: I do like a good personal story yeah.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: Well, do you know, it's one of these we get.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: We get.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: You always keep seeing people that our Well-known personalities I mean Jacob's quite well, jacob's quite well-known in the circles that we know and they sort of wider area.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: But you get these stories, but then straight from someone like Jacob, so personal though so Approachable, and to come and Just go through that they.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: You know the ups and downs that he's gone through and let's remember, he came and approached us about talking about these things to help other people, which is what we're about really.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: So many thanks, thanks, jacob.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: Who's on in a couple weeks?
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, who's on there couple weeks?
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: So this is gentlemen that I met at the Nature Therapy Summit over at UCLan, that which I was asked to go to, which is really good, and it's Dave Gallagher, dave, dave is an adventure neuro Psychologist.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: Wow, I'm glad I got that right first.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: It hasn't been the first time.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: We've edited this loads, yeah.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so his amount on leader, adventurer and chart psychologist and we're looking at and Our adventure can help people deal with stress and unleash their wild sides.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Well, have you got a wild side?
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: I've got a wild and a wilder side.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: I thought they'll ever come side door.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: You should know that, man.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: You know me a long time.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my campsite is asleep, that's it, that's it.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: So.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see you then looking forward to it.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: All right, we'll take care.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: Bye, bye.