Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 814: Why Your Script Still Isn’t Getting Read; And What to Do About It with Whitney Davis

Transcript

IFH 814: Why Your Script Still Isn’t Getting Read; And What to Do About It with Whitney Davis · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: fourteen Cinema Should Make You Forget. You're sitting in a theater,
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Roman Polanski.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the film biz.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Today's show is
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur How to turn
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: your independent film into a profitable business. It's harder today
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: than ever before for independent filmmakers to make money with
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: their films from predatory film distributors ripping them off to
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: huckster film aggregators who prey upon them. The odds are
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: stacked against the indie filmmaker. The distribution model of making
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: money with your film is broken, and there needs to
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: be a change the future of independent filmmaking is the
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: entrepreneurial filmmaker or the film entrepreneur. In Rise of the
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Film Entrepreneur, I break down how to actually make money
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: with your film projects and show you how to turn
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: your indie film into a profitable business. With case studies
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: examining successes and failures. This book shows you the step
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: by step method to turn your passion into a profitable career.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: If you're making a feature film, series, or any other
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: kind of video content, the Film Entrepreneur method will set
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: you up for success. The book is available in paperback, ebook,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: and of course audiobook. If you want to order it,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: just head over to www. Dot filmbiz book dot com.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy today's episode with guest
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: host Dave Bullis.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: So, my guest today is a literary manager and script
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: consultant and she runs her own consulting agency. And we
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: discussed that very question what does it take to make
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: it to the next level? And we all know what
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: that next level is, and that's all really very subjective,
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: and I want to make sure everyone knows that because
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: if you know, if you haven't written a script before,
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: your next level is writing a script. If you've written
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: ten scripts in your next levels. You want to get representation.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: You have representation in your next level is you want
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: to get it made by an a list cast and crew.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: Sounds simple, right with guests Whitney Davis, Hey, Whitney, thanks
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: a lot for coming on the show.
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: Hey, thank you for having me.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: You know, my pleasure. You know, it's funny, we were
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: trying to get a hold of each other for a while.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Now we just keep missing each other. But I'm so
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: glad we can finally connect because you know, I saw
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: your bio and you have a really, really cool bio,
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: and I said, I got to get Whitney on the podcast.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: Well. Thanks. It's been quite a journey.
• 2:55
  Speaker 5: That is for sure.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I actually wanted to ask about that, Ernie,
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: and I wanted to ask, you know, Whitney, how did
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: you get started, you know, in the whole uh literary
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: management business, and how did you get involved in the
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: consulting business.
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: So basically what I'm asking is, where did this whole
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: journey start?
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, this crazy story. To make it short,
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: because it obviously has been a ten year journey. Essentially,
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: I was in the right place at the right time,
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: with the right person. Is how this whole journey started.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: About ten years ago, I had moved to Los Angeles
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: with zero aspirations to be in the entertainment industry. It
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: wasn't even really on my radar. And I had always
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: thought I was going to be a novelist. Actually, that
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: if I ever really sat down and put pen to paper,
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: which I think is something that a lot of people
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: struggle with actually getting started, that if I ever actually
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: got started, that I was going to write a book.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: And I was actually at a party and this woman
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: approached me and I didn't know who she was or
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: what she did, and she asked me what I was
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: doing was myself and I was like, well, I'm actually
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: raising a baby. And she's like, but no, honey, really,
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: I mean, what do you want to do. I'm like, well,
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe I'll write a book, And so she
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: started asking me about it. And when I told her
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: about this concept for my book, her face just dropped
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: and she was like, I'm going to have my assistant
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: contact to you tomorrow.
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: And I was like, what what is that?
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: And so her assistant actually did come over the next day,
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: and I kid you not, this never happens that was
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: a stack of TV pilot screeners like DVB's and a
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: stack of TV pilots, and they said, forget your book.
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: Concepts were turning it into an original television series. And
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: she happened to be a TV lit agent with William
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: Morris at the time, and so that is how I
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: got my start, and to segue into the other part
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: of it, you know, I started in the television business,
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: and then the Ryder strike happened, and so people started
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: Once I was out of work, people started bringing me
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: their scripts just being like, hey, can you look this
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: over since she already kind of broke in, And I
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: was like sure, And so I did it for free
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: for a while because they didn't know any better, and
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: then I was like, maybe I should charge and people
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: will go away, and then it just got worse. So
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: I just did script development for a long time, and
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: then crazy enough again, this just organically occurred. Some of
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: my clients that were starting to do well in the
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: contest asked if I would consider managing them, and I
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: said no for a long time, and then it was
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: just like I was actually already kind of orchestrating meetings,
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: and so I finally just said what the heck, And
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: I just jumped in with both feet. So that is
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: how I got to where I am today, in a nutshell,
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: very crazy.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: So when you first moved to LA, was there a
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: reason that you moved to LA because I know you
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: said you didn't want to be in the entertainment business
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: at that point.
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: So my husband at the time, he was there for
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: grad school and so he had come to UCLA to
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: get his master's degree. And I actually had applied to
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: be an English teacher at Santa Monica High School, but
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: then I found out I was pregnant, so I just
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: decided the baby was coming in December, which was going
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: to be in the middle of the years. I just
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: actually decided not to teach at all. And again, like
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: it was just the perfect timing that, right, you know,
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: right after the baby was born and I was kind
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: of had my feet back off, you know, up again,
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: that I ran into this woman and started developing my
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: original TV series and all that. So it was just
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: and it was hilarious because I was so green. I
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: didn't know anything, Like I was just like, oh, this
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: is kind of cool. But now looking back on it,
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: I'm like, oh my gosh, what an amazing opportunity, like
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: people would have killed to be in my position, and
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: I was just kind of like doodling along like it
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: was no big deal. But now looking back at it,
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: I'm like, Wow, what an amazing you know, what an
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: amazing blessing and opportunities to just not have been afraid.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: You know, I just didn't know anything, and I wasn't jaded,
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: so I wasn't afraid to open up my mouth and say, oh, yeah,
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: here's my idea. And I essentially pitched her without knowing
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: I was pitching her. So that's what I always tell
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: people that they just need to do their pitches. You know,
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: when they pitch, they just need to do their pitches
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: like they're having a conversation, because whoever they're pitching is
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: just a human being like you and me. All they
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: want is to hear a great story. And I think
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: people get really nervous at the thought of pitching. But
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: you know, the other person listening to your pitch isn't
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: like a unicorn, like they just you know, they're just
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: a regular human who wants to find great material. And
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: so I just say, hey, the best way to pitch
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: is just having a conversation. You know, that's the best,
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: the best advice I can give on that, because that's
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: how it happened for me. It didn't even know it
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: that it was happening, so it was great.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: It's like what Dan Harmon said about you know, he
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: gave advice to pitching, and his advice was, have you
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: He said, when you ever, when you're ever going out
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: there and you tell your friends about some movie and
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: they go, oh, should I see that movie? And and
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: you say yeah, and then your friends says, well what happens, Well, okay,
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: let me tell you what happens in the movie. He
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: says that, right there is how you should pitch to people.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: He goes, just just telling them about this really cool thing.
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: Yes, And I think that there's so much pressure these
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: days for you know, how to pitch, and I really
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: think there is no you know, formula you would say,
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think everybody's so individual that I just
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: I mean, I did Great American Pitchfest in May, and
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: I was really amazed, Like I sat and probably listened
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: to one hundred and fifty pitches and there was a
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: real big difference to the ones who were pitching comfortably
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: and like knew their story well as opposed to those
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: who were trying I felt like to follow a very
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: formulate pitch that like they're like like, I'm not doing this,
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: and you know, I could just tell that they were
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: tied up and am I giving them the right information
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: in the right in the right sequence, I guess. So yeah,
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: I mean that's just something that I really love to
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: talk to people about, is just pitching bravely, like not
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: being afraid to just say what they want to say
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: and not worrying about a formula or anything like that.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: So I love it.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: So are you are you still working with that with
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: the Asian manager?
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: No? Actually, I mean we are still on great terms.
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: But after the like I said, after the so we
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: kind of went through the pitching process of pitching my
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: series at the time, and they had married me. For
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: a lot of writers that don't know this, I think
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: that a lot of you know, getting into the TV
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: industry is or any you know, whether it be feature
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: or film or feature film or TV, it's just like
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: really understanding the business aspect of being a writer. So
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: you know, I was like, oh, I'm going to sell
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: this pilot, blah blah blah. But really it was just
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: you know, when we went on our general meetings, they
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: just wanted to see what kind of a writer I
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: was and what my personality was, and so I thought
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: I just had all of my expectations like turned upside down.
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: So anyway, after we pitched it and I didn't, it
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: didn't get bought, but I got hired. We went through that,
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: and then once the once the writers strike happened and
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: I had the baby and things were getting crazy, I
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: just I decided to just go with a script consulting
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: and we just kind of parted ways amicably. But it
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: was just because I kind of decided not to go
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: back into a writer's room per se, because it was
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: just more amenable to being a mom doing the scripts
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: can thing. And plus I get so much.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: Satisfaction out of people, out of helping people develop their concepts.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: Look it, really, I really love that. So I think
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: that's line management was a natural segue for me because
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: there's so much of that in managing someone and helping them,
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: you know, get to the next level and developing their
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: ideas and being a sounding board. So to answer question, no,
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: I'm not with that agent anymore. But we you know,
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: it just was a natural kind of break and we're
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: still on great terms and I fear every so often
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: then she's a CIA now actually so she even moved
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: since then.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: But yeah, so you know you brought about moving to
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: the next level, you know, as as some of the
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: questions as you can see that came in, Whitney. I
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: think that's a hot button issue for a lot of people,
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: is moving to that next level, you know, And so
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: spoiler alert for everyone listening, that's some of the that's
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: some of the questions that have come in. But but
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: before we get before we get to that, I just
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: want to ask, you know, Whitney, you know you have
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: worked under people like Steve Kaplan and Jen Grassani Lead
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Jess Up by the way, they've all been on the podcast.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: It's so, how did you end up working, you know,
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: with a lot of these people in the field, because
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: these are all you know, well known people. Again, you
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: you've worked with Steve Kaplan, Jen Grassani, Lead, Jess Up,
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: John Truby, Chris Voldler. You know, how did you end
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: up working and meeting with all these people?
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: You know what, honestly, I saw some out, Like I
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: was just like, if I'm going to do this, and
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: I want to learn and you know, learn from the best,
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: and so I just made an effort, you know, to
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: save Like this was kind of in that journey where
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: I was. It was kind of this weird in between
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: period where I was doing the script consulting and was
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: kind of deciding like as I personally wanted and I
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: guess I'm kind of an entrepreneur in that degree deciding
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: aside wanted to take my career to the next levels
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: and going into management, and so I just knew who
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: the experts in the field were, and I was just like,
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: you know what, I'm going to go. I'm going to
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: find them out. I'm going to seek them out and
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: find them and talk to them. And so essentially I
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: just kind of made like a business plan that I
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: was going to save up certain amounts of money and
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: like invest in myself to go to their classes and
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: meet them and start relationships with them. And so that
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: I think is part of where why I am where
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: I am today because I wasn't afraid and I was
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: like I'm gonna do whatever it takes to just kind
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: of get get in front of these people and meet
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: them and talk to them and so you know, and
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: then it's started being crazy that like we I mean,
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: it's such a small world. And now that I'm kind
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: of getting into that world with them, like I see
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: them everywhere. Like I was just with Jen and New York.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: We were doing a conference together and I see lead
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: jessup and like I'm helping Steve with his comedy class
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: in January. So, I mean, that's how I did it
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: was I just took the initiative myself and went out,
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: was like, I want to be associated with the people
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: who know what they're doing, and I just took the
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: initiative to go find them and to build relationship with them. Actually,
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: so that's how it happened. I just wasn't afraid, I guess.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: So I hope that answers the question.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: So, I mean, you know, with the advent of the Internet,
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: I think it's made you know, everything a little easier
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: and a little harder at the same time. And one
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: of the things that's made a little easier is finding
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: these people. Because you know, all the people that we
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: just mentioned, they all have websites, yes, and so did
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: you did you find them through their websites or did
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: you bump into them maybe at a conference, cause you know, I.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: Bumped into them all at conferences. I mean I knew
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: people in the industry, and I had just been hearing
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: about these people, and so like I either attended I mean,
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: I met them all in person. I made an effort.
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: And again this is hard if you're not local to
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: LA because a lot of the people are local to LA.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: But I made the effort to go to the conferences
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: to make sure I went up to them afterwards and
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: spoke to them. And you know, now I really consider
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: them friends and colleagues. So I just I mean, I
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: was truthful. I was like, hey, like I want to
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: I want to learn from you, like I want to
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: know what to do. But for people who aren't local
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: to LA, I mean all these people, Dan Lee, Steve,
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: John Truby, Chris Vogeler, Robert McKee, you know all these
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: people have I just say, the best thing that you
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: can do is access their information. I mean they have podcasts,
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: they have you know, online seminars, they have these things.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: Like these people know what it takes to get to
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: the next level. I mean they are the experts. And
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: I say, if you can't meet them in person, like
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: tweet at them, email them. You know, they do phone consults.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: They know that Lee does for sure, and like just
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: stoke up everything you can from them because they definitely
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: they definitely know what they're doing. I do consults as well,
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: So I mean, you know, you just I think you
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: just got to put yourself out there and like make
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: it known, like I always tell the writers I work with,
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: like make it known within the first five minutes of
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: a conversation that you want to write and you want
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: to do this, and this is what your goal is. Like,
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: I think it's important to speak that step out into
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: the universe, to like let the world know, because it's
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: like you don't speak it, how would anybody know it,
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean. So I think there's a
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: lot to making verbal commitments and letting people know that
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: that's your goal because they can hold you accountable to
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: it and app can, you know. So I think that
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: that's an important aspect of a writing.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: Career, definitely. And I definitely think also, you know, finding
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: out who you actually want to talk to and zeroing
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: in on those people is really important as well.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: And in terms you know, in terms of like I
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: think one of the questions that the guy asked. There
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: was a guy that was like, maybe he wasn't local
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: to LA, but he asked about queering. He's like, is
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: that my only option? Like I'm not in LA, and like,
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: you know, I always say, even if you can make
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: one trip out to LA and go to like one
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: of the big conferences like Great American Pitchfest or Story
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: Expo or like I know there's others that are like
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: American Film Market or any of those things, Like so
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: many people are at those and just even making face
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: to face contact for five minutes and handing them your
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: business card and making a contact, Like that's enough. There
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: been and of itself to like send a query, and
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: like agents and managers show up to these things like
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: to film festivals and all these things. So I think
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: that a cold query can be a little hard and
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: difficult in terms of taking things to the next level.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: But I'm just like, man, if you can invest and
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: take one trip out to LA like a year, like
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: it can do what and you go to the right
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: event and you know, make sure you talk to the
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: right people, like it can radically change the trajectory of
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: your career. Absolutely, one you.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Know, we were talking about you know, you you're you
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: went to the management side, uh, you know, of the business,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: and I wanted to ask you a whitney, what are
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: some of the things that you know that have you
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: have seen? And that sort of like is uh, that's
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: what I'm trying to say, is sort of like a
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: normal thing that you see, like the most common error
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: screenwriters make. Because I was trying to say.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: Oh, gosh, you know, that's a really tough question because
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: I think everyone obviously is so individual, but I think
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: that one of the common common errors that will turn
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: either an agent or a manager off is just the
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: way in which they go about contacting them. Actually, like
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: you really need to research the agent or manager that
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: you're trying to talk to. I know that one of
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: the big things among agent and managers often if you're
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: sending a query letter that you're sending to a lot
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: of different people, a lot of times, like the person
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: sending in either the query for their film or their
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: TV show or their literary novel will sell the agent's
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: name wrong or spell the manager's name wrong. And that
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: is like the number one turnoff, Like you're not even
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: paying attention to what you're doing, you know, So number one,
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: I think you should paying attention to detail and showing
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: that you're serious. I think another things that they look for,
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: like which is crazy, is typos, like they'll forgive them that.
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: They're like if an email is just chock full of typos,
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: they're just like people want to write, like what is this?
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: You know? So I think said those detail oriented things
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: are one of the things. The other thing is it's
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: good to be persistent, Like I think it's always good
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: to follow up with an agent or manager, but you
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: have to understand that most agents and managers are absolutely
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: drowning in either scripts or books to read, like drowning
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: all the time, like you're always playing catch up. And
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: so a major turnoff is like if you tell someone, hey,
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: thank you so much for submitting your script to your book,
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: like expect you know, to hear from me in four
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: to six weeks. And you know, an agent, an amateur
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: who really writer, who isn't aware of how things operate,
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: They like, you know, they get antsy and they want
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: to know. And I totally understand that because I've been there,
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: But to say start emailing like every day or every
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: two days, which has totally happened, like have you have
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: you read my have you read my book? Have you
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: read my script? Have you done this? Have you done that?
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: Like where just I forget it, Like if they.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: Can't be like you know, that absolutely tends to drive
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: agents and managers crazy and they just you know, they
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: won't respond, like they just won't. They're just like these
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: people can't be patient, like I'm not you know, I'm not.
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: So I guess there's like I guess what I'm saying
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: is there's a there's a particular like Stanford protocol in
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: terms I guess as behavior or just general manners that
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: those two minor things can be enough to turn an
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: agent or a manager off. Unfortunately. I think. So those
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: are kind of my two two big things I think of,
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: which aren't even which aren't even material related, which is
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: like a whole other you know, which is a whole
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: other thing.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: So those are like actionable items that people can look for,
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: like don't send a query with typos, don't over you know,
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: bother the agent's managers. And then there's the material side
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: of things in terms of the content they send, which
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: is like a whole different ballgames that we should talk about,
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: but I don't know how much time we have.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: No, that sounds great if you If you have the time,
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: I'd love to get into that.
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: You have to In terms of like, you know, I
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: think so to me says super quick. I think in
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: terms of the content people send, you know some people,
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: you've got like two types of people. And I don't
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: mean this negatively at all, but you've got your people
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: who are just like, my show is great, it's completely original.
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: It's the next blah blah blah, which is totally awful
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: to say. People are like sometimes they're like, I'm the
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: next JK. Rowling or I'm the next Quentin Tarantino. It's like,
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: don't you know they'll say that, And there are things
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: that it's like, do not compare yourself to the greatest
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: you know people out there. That's just a no note.
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: But in terms of like the material, like I think
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: a lot of it is people just they want to
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: be a writer. And I just tell people like sometimes
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: new will come to me and they want to be managed,
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: and I'm like, well, okay, let me see what you have.
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: And really it comes to an aspect of like are
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: these people ready to be is their material ready to
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: be shopped? And the things that I look for to
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: make sure that a material, you know, that a that
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: a either a script or a TV show or a
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: novel is ready to be shopped. It's like is this
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: story structure there, because a lot of times it's like
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: they don't even have, like I'll read through it and
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: like key components of what makes a story a story
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: you're missing, Like there's no catalyst. It's like, what's the
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: insiding incident in this story? Or you know, there is
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: no Allah's lost moment where the character really comes to
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: this deep dark place where they have to rise back
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: to the top again. You know, is that's missing? It's like,
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: you know, there's nothing I can't manage that now on
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: my consulting developmental side, like yes, that's what I'll work
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: with you to fix. But in terms of you know,
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: are you ready a lot of another thing that will
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: kill you know, a story or something like that is
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: really stilted dialogue. Unfortunately, dialogue is one of the hardest
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: things to write, and when you're reading through a script,
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: if it's really stilted or unnatural, that's something that will
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: turn an agent or a manager off when they're skimming
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: through and reading. So you know, those are the things
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: that I think you really have to pay attention to.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: And that's why the people like Vogler and Grissanti and
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: John Truby are absolutely like amazing. Like Robert McCaine just
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: put a book out on dialogue and I read it,
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: and I mean, this is my business, and I like
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: consider myself like pretty high up there. Not Robert McKee standard,
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: but like, you know, I know how to write dialogue.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: And I read the book and I was like blown away.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's just so good to be reminded of
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: this step. And I think people sometimes think that writing
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: dialogue should be an innate ability, Like we all talk,
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: so we all should be able to write that. But
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: when you translate that to a script or to a book,
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: it just, you know, it's hot. And so I think
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: people the best thing that they can do for themselves
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: is just practice daily read up on you know, techniques
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: and ideas from the experts, and just don't give up
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: because that and just keep working. And I think that
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: that's like the best thing that you can do. And
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: how does someone read it before you send it to
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: an agent or manager, like have it covered, or have
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: Jen Grassanti or Lee or me or someone you know
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: take a look at it, because that really helps to
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: have someone in industry that knows what is people want
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: know what's out there to make sure you're on the
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: right track. I mean, I think feedback can be invaluable
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: if you.
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: Get it from the right from the right source.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: And you know when I think a lot of times too.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: You know, when you send a script to a agent or
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: a manager, usually it's going to go to their assistant, right,
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: you know, it's going to have their assistant read it.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: And I think sometimes those assistants, you know, can this
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: get easily? And I've heard different things. Sometimes they say
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: they can easily just chuck your script, meaning if by
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: the first page they can they conceive. So okay, so
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: that is right?
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no, Well you know what's the crazy thing
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: is now for someone like me because I am a
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: small boutique management firm, like it is me and one
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: other person's I'm obviously not Circle's confusion. I'm not you know,
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: mad House. You know I'm not you know CAA, I'm
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: not one of these big things. So I actually read
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: the scripts myself. But what is true is this, and
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: this is the truth people, you, for those of you listening,
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: the sad thing is this. It's like if you're at
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: one of those big houses, and this is the problem.
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: If an assistant or a reader reads the script and
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: gives it a consider or you know, you know, pushes
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: it on to their boss. You know, they spend you know,
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: the assistant spent all weekend reading and if they say
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: consider or that they're going to send it on to
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: their boss, that means their boss, the manager itself, is
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: going to take time out of their day or their
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: weekend to read it. And if it sucks or it's
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: awful and their assistant passed it on, guess what happens
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: to that assistant.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: They're bone, They're fired.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: And so honestly, assistance, unless it is just absolutely cream
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: of the crop amazing, what the sad reality.
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: Is is assistants are Assistants are scared to pass.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: It on unless they can just absolutely tell it's amazing,
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: because they're afraid of their job. And I hope I
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: don't get in trouble for saying this, Like I know
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: that this is true and on certain levels at bigger firms,
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: so you just have to be So what I guess
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: it's to say is like it's just that's how it is, unfortunately.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: And so for me though, like being a small manager,
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: like I'm willing to take risks on certain people and
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: develop people. And that's why I think the cold query
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: is a really scary thing because managers and agents oftentimes
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: it isn't always about the content that the writer has.
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: It's about the rider themselves, like they want to see
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: like I have spidy senses. It's really weird, like I
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: can sit down with a person and usually know within
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: less than five minutes if I'm going to work with
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: them or not, just based on their personality. So that's
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: why I tell people, if you can get in front
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: of agents and managers, your chances skyrocket, absolutely skyrocket because
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: they're going to be working with you. And so even
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: though your content may not be the best, if they
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: can tell that you are a go getter and a
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: talented person, they're probably going to be more willing to
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: take a chance on you. And so that's why it's
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: just downright scary to send something in cold like CAAA,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: Chris Serve, any of those big boys just because that's
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: how the ball rolls. So but again, if you can
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: meet those agency managers that work at those places at
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: like industry events, then you're in a better, a much
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: much better better scenario, you.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Know, because you know, it's like I've had people in
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: here before and they would say, you know, getting a manager,
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: getting an agent, or even a manager more so than
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: an agent, but it's about a relationship cause you're going
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: to be working that for that person for for months
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: or years to come.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: I always say it is totally like a marriage. And
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: you know what's a crazy thing is is I've talked
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: to people before where I've been meeting them kind of
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: see if we're going to work together, and I've even
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: had to be like, look, it's not even about your content,
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: like because honestly, I feel like I feel like every
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: agent and every manager kind of has like their specialty
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: or their niche where they feel most comfortable and so
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: like mine at the current moment is television. Like I
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: feel like I have much more connections and much more
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: understanding of the te re world than I do of
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: the film world. Do I know producers and people in
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: the film world, guess, but I just don't feel as
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: comfortable in that space. So when someone comes to me
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: and they ask me what I consider managing that all
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: they have as features, Like I sit there and I'm like, look,
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: I'm just gonna shoot straight with you, like your step
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: is great, but honestly, I just may not be the
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: right manager for you, only because I don't think I'm
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: going to be able that I have what you know,
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: that I have the contacts to shop you in the
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: right in the right places, and I don't want to
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: do a disservice to you knowing that I probably am
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: not going to be the best fit. So I'm just
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: modest with them and say like, look, it's nothing about
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: your your ability or your talent, Like I just can
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: tell that we're not going to be a good fit,
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: or like I've pulled several people like you're great, that
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: I'm just not passionate about this particular project. And to
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: work together, like you guys, you have to be in pandem,
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: like you have to be on the same page. You
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: have to have a manager that's going to absolutely fight
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: for you and advocate for you one hundred percent. And
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: so I just, you know, I sometimes feel like it's
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: just it really is. It's like a weird form of
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: dating in a way, like you really just have to
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: make sure that you click and that you gel together
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: because you really are in this weird writing marriage, you know.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: So I think that that's been an interesting thing. I've
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: learned that I've turned people down who are really talented.
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: I just know that I'm not the best fit for them.
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: So it's hard, it's really hard.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, that actually ties in with some of
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: the questions that we got Whitney, and we actually had
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: a pretty good amount of questions come in. You know,
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: I'm if you don't mind, I would you would you
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: mind answering a few questions right now?
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: Sure?
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, you know, actually just telling you with what you
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: just said. The first question is do I need more
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: than one script to approach a manager?
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely you do. Generally speaking.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: When you come to a manager, lead Jessa, this is
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: one of the main nuggets that I learned from her
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: back in the day. You really need what's called a
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: writer's portfolio, and so generally what that entails is you
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: really need to have even if you're not a TV person.
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: This is generally across the board just what a screenwriter
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: needs to have. You need to have a really strong
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: TV pilot. You need to have a really strong spec
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: pilot for something currently or not spec pilot, but that's
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: script for something currently on air. So I tell people,
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: you know, look, get watch television. Kind of pick your
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: top ten. Well, I call a hit list of TV
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: shows you'd really love to write for. Then kind of
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: knowing what your talent is, narrow that down to like five,
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: and then pick one of them and do a really
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: good spec because you know, people at the networks and
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: people you know at the production companies want to see
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: that you can mimic the tone and style of someone
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: else's work, and even at the studios for features, because
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: you know they do work for hire for real rice
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: all the time for movies, but they want to keep
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: it in kind of that same tone. So they want
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: to see that you can somewhat do that and then
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: also have a really really strong feature And if you
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: have more than that, then that great. But three is
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: kind of the minimum. And then you know people coming
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: to me being like, well, I have five features and
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: three you know, three TV pilots. What do I do?
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, well, you probably have a pretty good
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: indication in your gut which went through your this, you
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: know or the strongest, like you need to take those really,
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: you know, read through them again, polish them, rewrite them,
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: and then use those to send out kind of as
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: your portfolio. So absolutely, definitely more than one. Definitely one
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: TV pilot, one spec pilot for something currently on air
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: in any form like network, premium, cable or streaming, and
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: then a really strong original feature that you've written.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: And also Withney, I think we I should probably mention too,
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: and maybe I should have us question before, but you know,
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: there would you briefly just describe, you know, the difference
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: between a manager and an agent, because you know, I
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: sometimes think writers, you know, they always have an obsession
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: about getting an agent when really it should probably get
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: a manager. Correct.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, So for those of you listening, if you want,
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: you can go to my website, I actually just did
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: a four part series on representation, one on one explaining
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: all of this, but to really do a short recap. So,
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: an agent is licensed by the state to negotiate and
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: execute the sale of your work. So they come in
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: whin their business to be done, so they are the
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: ones to do that, and they usually take ten percent,
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: and so they really don't do They may read your scripts,
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: but they aren't they don't have the time and aren't
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: going to take the time to like read it, give
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: notes all of that. Agents generally tend to have anywhere
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: from thirty to fifty clients on their roster, depending on
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: where they are in the life of their kind of career,
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: so they can take on a lot more people because
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: they literally are just doing the business side. The one
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: thing also you need to know is the agents are
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: not legally allowed to produce anything. Their only job is
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: executing and negotiating the contract for the sale. On the
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: flip side, the manager is not allowed to quote unquote
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: procure employment for their client. They're not allowed to like
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: quote unquote get you a job like doing anything per se.
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: But they can help you sell individual scripts, but they
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: cannot like be the ones. Again, that's the agent's role.
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: So what the manager does is the manager really is
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: all about developing your career. They are the ones that
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: usually go about helping you network and get meetings, like
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: I just had a meeting with HBO and Hallmark a
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: few weeks ago, and Netflix is up on the thing.
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: They're the one who are going to really organize and
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: schedule those meetings for you and get you in the
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: door a lot of times. Now, what's different though, as
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: a manager can produce, which in some senses is good
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: because your manager is way more invested in that sense.
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: So they also take ten percent of whatever happened generally
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: because they're the ones doing the heavy listing in the
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: footwork of like helping you develop your concepts and reading
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: and giving you notes and like really involved in the
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: day to day. So yes, at the beginning of your career,
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: if you can snag a manager like that's probably one
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: of the best things you can do. And a lot
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: of people don't even have agents. They can in lieu
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: of an agent, so they can just use an entertainment lawyer,
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: which is just the same an entertainment attorney, which is
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: just the same thing. But what's great was an agent.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: I'll say this caveat which great was an Asian. If
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: you have an agent at CIA or one of the
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: bigger firms, what's great is if they have someone else
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: in their agency like actresses and directors and all that.
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: The great thing is they can package you know, material
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: and that will help. So it's like if you have
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: your script, but then they have actresses, A, B, and
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: fee at their firm that are wanting to attach, and
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: then they also have this director and then they can
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: take it as one did package. That definitely, you know,
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: incentivizes the sale. So those are the two big things.
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: Agents licensed by the state negotiate, execute the contracts. Manager
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: is not allowed to do that, but they can produce.
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: And they're the day to day development, getting you meetings,
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: helping you network, helping you brand yourselves, helping you write,
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: just kind of grooming you for your career. So that's
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: the short explanation. I hope that helps.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that helped a lot, you know, and that's great information,
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: especially about packaging too. You know that that's something also
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: I hear, you know, people will always will always talk
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: about that, and you know, I think a lot of
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: times people sort of misconstrued that, and I think it's
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: almost like the whole agent thing.
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it can happen on the management side. I mean,
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: I guess it's at your management for it, but it's
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: I feel like, I hope that's right, and I'm kind
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: of second guessing myself. I've heard it happening more on
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: the agency sides in the management side to say package,
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: but probably someone's gonna like write in and say I'm wrong,
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: so who I'll put that at the Carriot that. I'm
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: not exactly sure, but it's in my brain at the
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: moment that's what it's telling me. But may be wrong,
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: so sorry, if that's wrong information, I'll have to check.
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: But I'm pretty sure it's more on the agency side
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: than the management side. Did they do that?
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: If anybody writes in, I'll just say it to you, Whitney.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: I'll be like, listen, Whitney, this guy's this year.
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: People, I'll buy you a coffee. I mean, I don't
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: know what to say, so so yeah, So that's the
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: differences between agents and managers. So yeah, I think management.
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, I love it. I just I just love
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: being a part of the It's a sickness, really loving
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: loving to be a part of the process so much.
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: People are like every day it's so funny. I'm just like,
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: why do I do this? And then I'm like, when
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: like a breakthrough happens, I'm like.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, this is the best.
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's just like it's it's such a crazy, crazy,
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: crazy existence.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it's like the plateaus and the hills, you
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: know what I mean, It's like the h the highest
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: of highs and lows.
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: But the thing is, you know, and that's why, you know,
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: I guess that some of people can look on it
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: as being shady, even though I don't think it's shady.
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: That's I haven't given up the consulting side of my business.
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: Can you. People come to me and they're like, I
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: want to be managed. I know that they're just not
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: there yet. So I offer consulting services. And I always say,
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: you know, if you don't want to stay with me,
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: because you know, you think that's odd. Like I'm totally
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: willing to, you know, send people to several of my
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: different colleagues. But like the consulting side is just that
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: I love so much too because I love of the
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: people that are that need the expertise of an industry,
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: you know, you know, an industry like expert or whatever,
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: and I love being that person to help teach them
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: and all that. So it's kind of a it's kind
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: of a crazy, crazy thing. I love doing both have
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: so I feel like I can get away with it
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: because my management, you know, cluster is so small at
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: the moment that I still can help the people that
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: are the up and coming aspiring writers. So I really,
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: I really still enjoy doing that so much too.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I could tell you know, you really enjoy doing it,
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: and I mean, you know, it's it's needed. You know,
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: you have to have people that really enjoy this actually
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: out there doing it. And you know, I love it.
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: I love it so much, and I think some people
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: get really jaded and it gets tiresome. I just I
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: just find it all so fascinating, like the way that
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: the human mind works and the things that people can
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: come up with. I'm just like, I mean, I like visibly,
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: like I mean, Peo will laugh at me because my
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: face just lights up. I'm like, oh, like yes, I'm
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: just I'm like, even now, I'm thinking of some of
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: the stuff that some of my consulting clients are pitching
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: at Austin, and I'm just like, I cannot wait for
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: them to pitch it because I just get so excited
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: for them because the ideas they're so freaking, you know, amazing.
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: So we'll just we'll just see it's this fun, exciting world.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: I actually have a few of the questions I I'm
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: going to try to answer or I've started trying to
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: ask these last two. So uh Whitney other This is
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: by at Joe's screenwriter, and Joe asked, what are some
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: of your thoughts on the query letter? As a Hollywood outsider?
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Was your contact? It seems like my only shot.
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and so I feel like I kind of address
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: this a little bit earlier, but I'll expand on it.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: So the query is a really test thing. Like to him,
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: I would specifically say, if you're a Hollywood outsider and
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: you don't live in LA, we'll be.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Right back after a word from our sponsor and now
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: back to the show.
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: I would really just make sure there is a process
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: to the query. So I would make sure and there's
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: like an actual format to a query letter for film
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: and TV. So I would look up or buy a
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: book on how to specifically query your book or your
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: film or your TV show. Second, if there's a specific
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: place that you know that you want to send it, like,
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: I would research those agencies or those firms and check
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: their submission requirements because oftentimes certain places are closed to
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: unsolicited queries and it's referral only, so you need to
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: check and make sure that they're open to unsolicited queries,
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: and yeah, for someone who doesn't live in LA, that
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: may be your only shot. But like I said, it
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: is not super expensive to get to LA these days,
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: I feel like, and it's just like if you can
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: save up and come to one of them or one
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: kind of industry saying it can and again I would
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: probably say Great American Pitchfest something like that is like
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: one of the best things that you can invest in
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: because you can get in front of like a hundred
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: management companies and producers who you can pitch to, and
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: you know, it's just it can change, it can change
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: your life. Like honestly, so in terms of a query,
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: there's nothing wrong with them. I take unsolicited queries. You
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: can submit soon in my website. I know that a
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: few others take unsolicited queries, like maybe Circle of Confusion.
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: But you know, the other thing I would do to
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: honestly for a person like that is reach out to
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: people on Twitter and ask if they have managers or
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: agents and like if you can get a referral, like
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: if you can send it to a This is another
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: way in which is a good point. If you can
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: find another writer who's currently represented and you send them
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: there your query first and have them look at over
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: and if they like it, they may be willing to
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: pass it on to their agent or manager. And that's
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: a way that it's not unsolicited anymore. So you feel
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: like you have to find these backdoor ways in So
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: if he can find someone on Twitter or Facebook or
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: LinkedIn that's currently a writer and currently reps, like that
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: might be a great way to go too, if he
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: can't get to La.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: You know, that's a great point, Whitney. You know, Twitter
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: is a phenomenal tool and I use it all the time.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: I've always talked about the great uses of Twitter because
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: almost everyone now is on Twitter.
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: Oh, I mean Twitter is absolutely amazing. Like it's crazy
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: to me, like.
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: About how many people I've met on Twitter, Like I've
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: gotten a few.
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: Clients off off of Twitter.
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: I think it is insane, And I think to the
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: screenwriting world, it really is the best social media platform
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: for connecting for sure? Is Twitter? Honestly, I think it's way.
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: I think it is the top one, honestly.
• 42:49
  Speaker 5: So that's what I.
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: Would say, is like cold query, make sure that they
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: take submissions, if not come to an event and if
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: not signed another writer who is repped and see failed
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: look at your stuff and check it out, or several
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: of the last one is several of the if you
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: can afford to hire one of the consultants. They all,
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: I mean, we all know people, and so if they
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: come across something that's really amazing, like they aren't, they
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: will be willing to pass it on as well. So
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think. And the other thing is contests,
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: Like if you enter contests and you place in a contest,
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: all those lists go to agents and managers the people
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: that place. So that's another way to break in for sure,
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: and so that may be easier than querying. Honestly, it's
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: just you know, applying for a you know, entering into
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: one of the many many contests out there.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that's something I've heard before too, is
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: they want to see what you're your writing can do
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: up against other people's writing. And you know I've heard
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: that where they want to see, you know, hey, why
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: aren't they these people going in this competition? You know,
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: why aren't they you know, doing something, why aren't they
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: going that route?
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: Say that's a good that's another good way if you're
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: not in Hollywood, because I know they takes, you know,
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: they it doesn't matter where you live, you can always
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: is enter those contests for sure.
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: So Whitney, you know, we've been talking for about you know,
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: forty minutes now. So in closing, is there anything that
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: we did get a chance to discuss that you may
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: have wanted to or a sort of you know, anything
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: you wanted to say to put a peer at the
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: ennis whole conversation.
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: No, I mean, I just I think that I want
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: to tell people that truly, if they set their minds
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: out to do it, it's amazing that if they just
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: keep at it, keep meeting people, keep writing, things can
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: happen for you. The two things I say, the two
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: piece of writing are patience and persistence. So I think
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: it just really is a journey. And if you're patient
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: yet persistent and just keep at it, you know, I
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: truly believe things will happen for people. And I think
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: it really is half relationships, half who you know, and
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: half you know craft and how well you write. So
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: I just always tell people always be nice to everybody
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: you know you meet, make an effort to be friends
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: with them, beyond on just wanting to sell, you know,
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: sell them or pitch them your idea and just continue
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: to really practice the craft of writing and write because
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: you love it, not because you want to make money
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: off of it. I mean, I think some people you
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: know can make money off of it, and that's the great,
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: but it's just like, right, because you love it and
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: that's what you really want to do. And I think
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: the money will come if you go, you know, look
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: at it as a business and go about the right
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: way of approaching it. So those are just kind of
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: my last do you nuggets as ice and encouragement. Just
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: keep at it. Just patience and persistence is the key,
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: and being nice to people and it'll all, you know,
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: hopefully it's all into place.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I like that last part too. Be nice
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: to people because they're you know, even on Twitter, Whitney,
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: And I'm sure you get this all the time. I
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: get a lot of people who immediately follow me or
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: they'll send me an email to my website and right
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: away they're asking something from me like hey, Dave, can
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: you retweet this? Can you can you do this? I'm like,
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: I don't even know who you are. I don't even
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: know what the movie is, right, Like, why don't you.
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I'm telling you I And what I really
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: appreciate is even the writers that I know once they
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: but they actually just like act me out for coffee
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: and like we go to coffee and just get to
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: know each other before they make you know, a certain
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: ask or whatever. I mean, it really is about just
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: getting to know other writers and building those relationships and
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: you know, just acknowledging their successes before you start asking
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: favors of them. I just think there's so much power
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: and acknowledging success just to be like days, you like
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: do a great job at podcasting, like thank you so
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: much for the for what you put out there in
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: the Twitter universe and social media at large, and started
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: that conversation that way, and then maybe after a few days,
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: like you know, it's been so great talking to you.
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: I was just curious. It's you know, maybe we could
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: do X, Y and V together and like have something
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: to offer back to them, like if you, like I said, like,
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: if you're going to offer to like reach you know,
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: ask somebody to do this, be like, hey, in return,
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: I'm more than happy to do X, Y and Z
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: for you in the future, like see if you can
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: barter or something like that makes it a lot, a lot,
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: a lot more acceptable to me that people would be
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: willing if they know that you're also willing to give
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: on your end. So I think it's definitely a give
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: and take. And the writing community is such a great place.
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: I just love it so much. So, I mean, that's
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: what I always say, be nice to people. The first
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: rule of everything. It will it will come back around
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: in a great, great way.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: If you can do that, You know that that's excellent advice. Whitney, Whitney,
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: Where can you will find you online?
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: They can find me at Whitney Davisliterary dot com and
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: then they can sign me across all social media at
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: W davisliterary dot com. I mean, well at W. Davis Literary. Yeah,
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: the handle on Twitter, Pebook and LinkedIn and everywhere else.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, and everyone I'm going to link to
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: that in the show notes. You know can always find
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: me at Dave Bullis dot com. The show notes will
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: be on Dave Bulls dot com and of course follow
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: me on Twitter at Dave Underscore Bullets. Whitney Davis, I
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: want to say thank you so much for coming on
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: the podcast.
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. It was an absolute blast.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, I'm glad you had fun because this is your
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: first podcast. I'm glad you know you had fun on it.
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: Yes, it was amazing. Thank you.
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: Oh anytime. Best of luck, Whitney. And you know, if
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: you ever want to come back on the show, please
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: just let me know. I mean more than happy to
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: have you back on.
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: I would love it. We'll have to figure something else
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: to something else to talk about, but for.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: Sure, Oh, there's so much we could talk about.
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: We just do networking. I love talking about networking for riders.
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: It's like one of my favorites. We should do that.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: Oh that sounds good because I usually get asked about
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: how I how I network when I go on other
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: people's podcasts.
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: So we should do it.
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: It'll be fun.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we could do like a dual networking fabe. Pretty cool.
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: Oh, let's do it.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: I'm down, Whitney, thanks so much. Okay, thank you, ay time,
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: take care, bye bye bye.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at indie film muscle
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: dot com Ford Slash eight fourteen.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: If you have it already.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: Please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com, subscribe and
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: leave a good review for the show. It really helps
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: for listening. Guys, as always, keep that hustle going, keep
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: that dream alive, Stay safe out there, and I'll talk
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: to you soon.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Indie Film Hustle dot com. That's I N D I
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: E F I L M h U S T l
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: E dot com.