Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Marc Brackett - Yale Emotional Intelligence Expert | How to Effortlessly Master Emotions

Transcript

Marc Brackett - Yale Emotional Intelligence Expert | How to Effortlessly Master Emotions · Success Story with Scott Clary

• 0:00
  I was sexually abused as a kid for five years in my childhood.
• 0:02
  I don't define myself as a sexually abused person.
• 0:05
  I define myself as a human being who experienced childhood sexual abuse.
• 0:10
  But I'm sublimating that negative experience into trying to make the world a better place.
• 0:14
  What if the key to peak performance is an intelligence, but emotional intelligence?
• 0:18
  Mark Brackett is a psychologist, best-selling author, and the founding director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence.
• 0:24
  I have a framework, which I call ruler, recognizing emotions in oneself and other,
• 0:28
  understanding the causes and the consequences of emotion.
• 0:31
  And so this regulation piece, probably the most important skill anybody can learn.
• 0:34
  In my research, I survey thousands of people across the world.
• 0:37
  Only 10% of the samples say they learn anything about that.
• 0:40
  Only 5% say they learned something about it in school.
• 0:43
  So we have masses of people who are experiencing a lot of strong emotions.
• 0:47
  They don't know what to do with them.
• 0:48
  For decades, he's been at the forefront of research helping leaders, educators, and organizations
• 0:53
  understand the power of emotions in driving performance, relationships, and well-being.
• 0:58
  Today, he's here to show us why emotions aren't obstacles to success.
• 1:01
  They're the strategy.
• 1:02
  One of the things I talk about is how we're so desperate for the quick fix.
• 1:06
  But you don't deal with your emotions using these quick fixes.
• 1:08
  It's a life strategy.
• 1:10
  You can make good decision, feeling any emotion, as long as you're aware that you're feeling the emotion
• 1:16
  and regulating it effectively when you're making the decision.
• 1:23
  So Mark, you're the expert in emotional intelligence.
• 1:31
  So before we sort of go into all of that, what does emotional intelligence actually mean?
• 1:35
  Can I put it back on you?
• 1:37
  Yes.
• 1:38
  What do you think it means?
• 1:39
  It means being aware of what you're feeling, being in touch with your thoughts, your emotions,
• 1:49
  and understanding maybe not just how they impact you, but also how they impact other people.
• 1:54
  That's pretty good.
• 1:55
  It's not a decent.
• 1:56
  Yeah, not bad.
• 1:57
  Okay, podcast over.
• 1:58
  We're good.
• 1:59
  So what is it?
• 2:00
  That's a piece of it.
• 2:01
  A piece of it.
• 2:02
  What else is it?
• 2:03
  So I have a framework, which I call ruler, which is R-U-L-E-R, recognizing emotions and
• 2:09
  oneself another, which is what you are getting to, and we can go deeper in any of these
• 2:13
  skills that you want.
• 2:14
  The second is understanding the causes and the consequences of emotions.
• 2:18
  So I'm recognizing and feeling slightly pleasant in my energy's low.
• 2:22
  Well, why?
• 2:23
  What's going on?
• 2:24
  I'm here.
• 2:25
  Well, that's not what I'm actually feeling.
• 2:27
  I'm feeling pleasant and high energy.
• 2:29
  Well, why Mark?
• 2:31
  You know, oh, I'm about to just great podcast with Scott.
• 2:34
  Okay.
• 2:35
  So how are you really feeling?
• 2:36
  That's the L labeling emotion.
• 2:39
  So I'm feeling, I would say I'm feeling a multiple set of emotions, like feeling excitement.
• 2:46
  And a little anticipation, maybe, because I don't know where we're going.
• 2:52
  And so that's my R-U-L, recognizing, understanding and labeling my own emotions.
• 2:58
  And I also tried to do that with you.
• 2:59
  So how are you feeling today?
• 3:01
  Good.
• 3:02
  Excited.
• 3:03
  Can't say the word good with me.
• 3:04
  Well, I can't say the word good.
• 3:05
  Yeah.
• 3:06
  Okay.
• 3:07
  So I would say that I'm excited, a little bit anxious always whenever I'm trying to show
• 3:13
  up and perform and make sure that I can keep up with somebody who's really smart.
• 3:16
  That's, that's my job.
• 3:17
  That's what I do for a living.
• 3:18
  But it's always, it's fun because I get to just like dive into your world.
• 3:22
  Right.
• 3:23
  So I always want to make sure that like I pull the best out of you.
• 3:26
  I, I don't know, podcasting gives me energy in general and every time I have this conversation
• 3:32
  or a conversation with somebody, which is why I think I'm doing the right thing as a
• 3:35
  job.
• 3:36
  After the conversation, I've learned so much, like I just feel like I'm just on like
• 3:41
  a little bit of a high because we've been learning and just vibing with each other for
• 3:44
  the past, you know, hour and a half.
• 3:46
  So I'm excited for the conversation.
• 3:48
  I'm excited for what I learned.
• 3:49
  I'm excited also because it's kind of selfishly podcasting is like the best education
• 3:54
  you're ever going to get if you host the podcast.
• 3:56
  I think you're right.
• 3:57
  So, but I don't know if those are all emotions.
• 4:00
  Some of these are.
• 4:01
  Yeah.
• 4:02
  They are.
• 4:03
  They are.
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  Okay.
• 4:05
  Yeah.
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  You're excited.
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  I mean, your primary emotion is excitement.
• 4:08
  You can have more than one by the way.
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  It's allowed.
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  So that's RUL.
• 4:12
  So we're both excited.
• 4:13
  Look at that.
• 4:14
  It's not always common.
• 4:16
  Then you have to decide, okay, well, can I talk about it?
• 4:19
  You know, you have a lot of people who are in big jobs, workplace, you know, how much do
• 4:23
  we talk about our feelings in this?
• 4:25
  Never.
• 4:26
  Exactly.
• 4:27
  HR is telling us not to.
• 4:28
  Yeah, there you go.
• 4:30
  The research and psychology would say otherwise.
• 4:33
  But yes.
• 4:34
  And that says that's interesting to think about, right, they kind of the juxtaposition
• 4:37
  of like what we know is best for people psychologically and for their health and performance
• 4:42
  and what HR wants us to do and not do.
• 4:46
  That's another podcast.
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  And then there's the final r of regulation, which is the topic of my new book, which is
• 4:52
  called dealing with feeling, which is how do we deal with these emotions that we have?
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  What are the strategies?
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  And just a piece about that.
• 5:01
  So I wrote a book years ago called Permission to Feel.
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  Very proud.
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  It's 30 languages.
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  I run around the world 17 times.
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  And then the pandemic hits.
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  And everybody's like, Mark, you know, thank you for giving me permission to feel about
• 5:14
  what the, do I do with all these feelings?
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  And I also really struggled during the pandemic in my center closed down.
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  The world felt like it was coming to an end.
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  And my mother-in-law moved in with us.
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  It was a bit of a mess.
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  And so this regulation piece for me is probably the most important skill anybody can learn.
• 5:36
  So regulation, because this seems to be a buzz word now, but I feel like people are going
• 5:42
  after regulation without tackling the first few letters of this framework.
• 5:48
  And I think that that's probably why they don't do a good job of actually regulating
• 5:50
  themselves.
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  Because if we actually go through recognizing, understanding, labeling and expressing,
• 5:55
  we don't do that.
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  And we just try and regulate that I'm assuming there's a really, really high chance we're
• 6:00
  going to fail.
• 6:01
  Yeah.
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  Because you can't just regulate for regulation's sake.
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  But that's what people are trying to do.
• 6:08
  Yeah.
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  Everybody's trying to control themselves.
• 6:10
  Yes.
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  You know, I think that's, you know, the good and the bad of the mindfulness world, right?
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  Everybody's breathing.
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  Everybody's meditating.
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  They don't know why they're meditating necessarily.
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  Just, they don't know.
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  They just talk on it.
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  You know, if all else fails, just breathe.
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  You've been doing that anyway, and it's not working.
• 6:28
  The, sorry, you know, the, everybody's obsessed with breathing, which, by the way, is really
• 6:35
  important.
• 6:36
  But it's not, it's not a sufficient strategy for dealing with your emotional life.
• 6:41
  It's like, you know, if you're in a relationship or your boss is like, you know, being
• 6:44
  difficult, you can't be like, I'm just going to breathe.
• 6:46
  Well, your boss is going to be the Nomura.
• 6:48
  So you'll be breathing a lot.
• 6:51
  Why do we, um, well, I guess there's probably
• 6:54
  a psychological reason it probably just seems like a hack to tie a result to a simple
• 6:59
  action.
• 7:00
  It is.
• 7:01
  And it, and it probably helps us avoid the deep work that we should be doing by going through
• 7:05
  this framework and probably some of the others that you have.
• 7:07
  Um, so this is why everybody is what depressed has high anxiety.
• 7:12
  Like, you mentioned that there was difficulty during COVID when you wrote your first book,
• 7:16
  but I, I intuitively feel with no data and you're the person who puts out PubMed peer
• 7:22
  reviews so you can probably back this up that post COVID, the world is like a little bit
• 7:26
  off.
• 7:27
  It is emotionally.
• 7:28
  Yes.
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  I think the disconnection, you know, the loneliness that, you know, we really felt then
• 7:33
  has still prevailed.
• 7:35
  You know, obviously people are on their phones more than they've ever been before.
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  We know that research.
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  There's a lot of loneliness and disconnection out.
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  Not all loneliness is bad.
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  It's good to be alone.
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  It's nice to be able to reflect.
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  I actually love being alone, um, an introvert.
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  So like, I love alone time.
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  I don't want to be lonely though, difference or alienated, you know, left out excluded yikes.
• 7:59
  But I think a, we know that, you know, there's people are worried about climate change.
• 8:08
  People are worried about the wars that we have constantly going on.
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  People are very worried about politics right now.
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  People are worried about violence in society right now.
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  And there's a lot of things that are kind of just happening for young children too.
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  It's like they, they haven't been alive when there hasn't been a war or some kind of crisis.
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  And, um, and people have not learned what to do with it.
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  So in my research for my book, what I did was I surveyed thousands of people across the
• 8:33
  world.
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  And I just asked them, I mean, a lot of questions, but the one I'm focused on now was, what
• 8:38
  did you learn growing up about how to deal with your feelings?
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  And nothing.
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  Yeah.
• 8:44
  Probably the answer.
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  Yeah.
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  Like, only 10% of the people that I surveyed, and this is like, very, you know, high performing
• 8:51
  people, big business people, teachers, kids, you know, all over the place.
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  Only 10% of the samples say they learn anything about that.
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  Only 5% said they learned something about it in school.
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  So we have masses of people who are experiencing a lot of strong emotions.
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  And then I don't know what to do with them.
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  And so there, you know, one of the things I talk about is how we're so desperate for
• 9:16
  the quick fix, you know, that one Instagram post that's like 10 seconds long that says,
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  you know, that I won't mention the person's name who's driving me crazy right now.
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  But, you know, gets on and like, is sitting in the car, I'm throwing my anxiety out the
• 9:29
  door, you know, and then I say, I'm thinking of myself, that door is going to slam in your
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  face so fast.
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  You don't even know what's happening.
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  You know, we, that's what we're desperate for.
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  It's we're desperate for feeling better.
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  But you don't feel better or deal with your emotions using these quick fixes.
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  It's a, it's a life strategy.
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  And that, that's probably overwhelming for people.
• 9:53
  Yes.
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  Because if you're talking about so, just to, to clarify, so emotional intelligence, how do
• 9:59
  we achieve that?
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  Well, through emotional education, learning, if the learning.
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  But if we think for a second, okay, I've never gotten emotional education from, from
• 10:11
  ever, from, there was no point in life.
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  You know, we got it from our parents, you know, I learned a lot about emotional intelligence.
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  Like what is not what it's not, right?
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  And I think that listen, listen, I love my parents very much and they gave me a very
• 10:25
  good childhood.
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  But also you have to understand that most of the teaching and most of the, the, the, the
• 10:31
  minds that they give over to whether or not it's with work and money and love and emotions,
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  it's just their lived experience that's all in the room.
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  That's all they know.
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  That's all they know.
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  And they don't know anything else.
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  So it's very hard for them to subjectively teach something that they haven't experienced
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  themselves.
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  100%.
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  It's actually impossible, really, unless you study it for a living and then you understand
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  how to teach it.
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  Unless your kid gets a PhD in psychology and it comes your teacher.
• 10:54
  Exactly.
• 10:55
  Which didn't work out 100%.
• 10:58
  But we can talk about, we can talk about, because I know that your mom has given you
• 11:01
  shit sometimes too for not what eating your own dog food to a degree during COVID.
• 11:07
  But yes.
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  So maybe it was your mother-in-law.
• 11:09
  It was my mother-in-law.
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  Mother-in-law.
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  Yeah.
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  By the way, mine also moved in with us during COVID.
• 11:13
  Oh goodness.
• 11:14
  Yes.
• 11:15
  So it was actually, it's, we weren't married, we weren't married, but I say mother-in-law.
• 11:19
  It was girlfriend's mother who moved in with us plus or two sisters moved in with us
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  during COVID too.
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  It was a wild, a wild house, but that's how we got so close so quickly and we're still
• 11:29
  together.
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  So it's only worked out.
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  All right.
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  Good.
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  But if people are thinking, okay, I don't have any emotional education in my life ever,
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  it seems overwhelming to start now because we have a whole world view formed.
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  So where do people start?
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  Like where do we go for emotional education?
• 11:47
  Yeah.
• 11:48
  Well, I mean, obviously people like me write books on this and have apps.
• 11:52
  I have an app called How We Feel that I created with the co-founder of Pinterest and our teams.
• 11:56
  That's very helpful.
• 11:57
  It's free to build your emotional self-awareness.
• 12:02
  But I do think, you know, reading is a good way to do it because, you know, you have to
• 12:10
  get your head into it.
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  And I think the first step is mindset shifting.
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  There's no such thing as a bad emotion.
• 12:21
  How does that make you feel confused?
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  Because I was honest.
• 12:25
  Yeah.
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  Confused because I feel like there's some emotions that don't serve me.
• 12:31
  Like I feel like jealous, jealousy, envy, sometimes anger.
• 12:37
  Like I feel like there's there are not, they're not aligned with who I want to be or they're
• 12:43
  not like I understand why they exist from like an evolutionary perspective.
• 12:49
  But I also don't think that they really serve like my goals, for example.
• 12:54
  So I don't see how they would be a benefit.
• 12:56
  Well, they're going to come whether you like them or not.
• 13:00
  Because life is filled with a roller coaster ride of emotions.
• 13:03
  I feel envy all the time.
• 13:06
  I watch some people present.
• 13:07
  I do a lot of public speaking and I was like, oh gosh, that person has the best timing
• 13:12
  or they tell the best jokes or they know how to bring that audience on a journey that's
• 13:16
  crazy.
• 13:17
  But I frame it as Mark, you could learn that.
• 13:22
  You're a freaking good presenter too.
• 13:23
  You're just going to tweak some things based on that.
• 13:25
  As opposed to thinking they're better than I am, I'm blessed then.
• 13:29
  So it's a mindset just like anxiety.
• 13:32
  A lot of people think anxiety is a bad emotion.
• 13:35
  I have a good friend who's a scientist of anxiety and she would interview me about this
• 13:40
  and she said, well, what are you going to anxious about Mark?
• 13:42
  I said, well, I get anxious, you know, I want to make sure that my research papers are
• 13:45
  the highest quality.
• 13:47
  I get anxious about fundraising because I do a lot of fundraising and I want to make
• 13:49
  sure we have the funding to do our research.
• 13:51
  She's like, well, what do you have in common with those, you know, what's the theme?
• 13:57
  And it's so they're important to me.
• 13:59
  And she goes, yeah, well, then why would anxiety be bad if you're anxious about the things
• 14:04
  that actually are meaningful to you and powerful to you?
• 14:07
  And it's a reframe because she's right.
• 14:10
  I don't get anxious about the things I don't care about.
• 14:13
  I do get anxious about achieving the goals that are important to me.
• 14:16
  And then I could strategize to do a good job to achieve that outcome.
• 14:21
  So it's a signal.
• 14:22
  It's a signal.
• 14:23
  Just like anger.
• 14:24
  Anger is about injustice.
• 14:27
  But why would that be a bad thing if someone's treating you unfairly?
• 14:30
  It's a signal, hey, this is unfair.
• 14:32
  We got to do something about it as opposed to allowing yourself to just be crapped on.
• 14:37
  So if we understand, that's the first reframe.
• 14:40
  It's a big one.
• 14:41
  It's a huge one because I think that most people would intuitively feel probably the same
• 14:44
  way that I did when they are told that all emotions, there's no things a bad emotion.
• 14:49
  Right.
• 14:50
  Everybody wants to feel good emotions, happy contentment, all that.
• 14:53
  And we want to avoid the bad ones.
• 14:54
  First, you can't avoid the bad ones.
• 14:56
  Life is going to happen.
• 14:58
  And if you have a new mindset around them, that they're information and data.
• 15:01
  So then the bigger issue is not emotions.
• 15:04
  It's when you have no instruction on what to do with these emotions.
• 15:06
  Correct.
• 15:07
  That's the first step.
• 15:09
  Yes.
• 15:10
  Okay.
• 15:11
  So it's part B to the mindset piece.
• 15:12
  You also have to believe that you can deal with it.
• 15:14
  Explain what that means.
• 15:15
  Like regularly.
• 15:16
  You can...
• 15:17
  Yeah.
• 15:18
  You know what?
• 15:19
  I'm not going to...
• 15:20
  Anxiety doesn't have to have power over me.
• 15:23
  I can use strategies to help me manage that anxiety when it's overwhelming to me.
• 15:27
  There are things I can actually do that are helpful, which by the way, my research and other
• 15:32
  people's research shows there really are a lot of strategies.
• 15:35
  We just haven't learned them.
• 15:37
  You know, what did I...
• 15:38
  My mother was very anxious.
• 15:39
  So what I learned from my mother was tell everybody you're having a nervous breakdown
• 15:44
  and then lock yourself in the room.
• 15:46
  That was her...
• 15:47
  That was how she regulated.
• 15:48
  That was that.
• 15:49
  I can't take it anymore.
• 15:50
  That's what she was saying.
• 15:52
  And then she'd like have her little doers on the side of the couch while watching Johnny
• 15:56
  Carson's show.
• 15:59
  And then she'd go to her room and that would be it.
• 16:01
  Like, okay.
• 16:03
  That's a strategy too.
• 16:04
  I wouldn't call that a healthy strategy.
• 16:06
  So then the answer is no longer, again, emotions, they're not good or bad.
• 16:10
  Emotions are emotions.
• 16:12
  But then the education should teach us what is an appropriate response to that emotion.
• 16:17
  Correct.
• 16:18
  What is...
• 16:19
  I don't like the word appropriate just because it's like...
• 16:21
  I'm going to...
• 16:22
  I'm using all the wrong words.
• 16:23
  It's all right.
• 16:24
  You're in it.
• 16:25
  You're getting an emotion education.
• 16:26
  Why is appropriate wrong?
• 16:27
  Why is...
• 16:28
  Why is feeling good?
• 16:30
  Not acceptable answer.
• 16:31
  Why is using the word appropriate?
• 16:32
  Like, why are the...
• 16:33
  Are these like...
• 16:34
  Because good has no meaning.
• 16:37
  Like, how you feel...
• 16:38
  Good fine.
• 16:39
  Okay.
• 16:40
  It's useless.
• 16:41
  It's almost trying to suppress our trauma.
• 16:43
  It's like a little dismissive.
• 16:45
  I mean, not like in a bad, a negative way.
• 16:48
  It's more like...
• 16:49
  That's just kind of what we...
• 16:50
  You know, you just say good so you can move on with your day.
• 16:52
  You know, you're at work.
• 16:53
  How's it going?
• 16:54
  Good.
• 16:55
  And then before you even say good, the person has gone away anyway.
• 16:59
  So that's...
• 17:00
  And then the...
• 17:01
  The appropriate thing is more around that there's a correctness.
• 17:06
  There really is no correct strategy.
• 17:08
  What's the beauty of emotional intelligence is that it's what works for you, based on
• 17:13
  your personality, based on your gender and culture.
• 17:16
  You know, there's a lot of strategies.
• 17:18
  You have to find the ones that work best for you given who you are.
• 17:21
  And that's where you tie the emotion into what are my goals in life.
• 17:25
  Exactly.
• 17:26
  100%.
• 17:27
  I haven't met...
• 17:28
  You know, there are a few people that I've met that have achieved their biggest goals
• 17:32
  in life without learning how to deal with their emotions.
• 17:34
  Meaning it's very difficult to do that.
• 17:36
  No, meaning that the people who achieved the most in life have really learned how to
• 17:42
  deal with their feelings.
• 17:43
  Yes, exactly.
• 17:44
  Yes.
• 17:45
  Because if not, then it's almost like you're living this reactive life.
• 17:48
  Correct.
• 17:49
  And in life.
• 17:50
  Or suppressed life.
• 17:51
  Or suppressed.
• 17:52
  And in life, good and bad will always happen.
• 17:55
  But if you don't know how to regulate, then the good will probably give you a false indicator
• 18:00
  of your own potential or your own competency.
• 18:04
  And the bad will probably derail all the other things you're trying to accomplish because
• 18:08
  you let that emotion almost consume you.
• 18:10
  Exactly.
• 18:11
  You got that one right?
• 18:12
  Good.
• 18:13
  I like...
• 18:14
  Listen, I don't attempt to bat 100.
• 18:15
  Like, well, as long as I get some of the terms, that's all the counts.
• 18:18
  You teach at Yale.
• 18:19
  I podcast for a living.
• 18:21
  You've done this a couple of...
• 18:22
  I'm sorry.
• 18:23
  You know, we both had our two rodeos.
• 18:27
  But the...
• 18:28
  You know, it's an interesting thing, you know, I do teach at Yale.
• 18:30
  You know, the assumption is that everyone's brilliant, which people are really smart.
• 18:35
  And that everyone's going to be enormously successful, not true.
• 18:41
  Just because you have a high cognitive ability does not mean you're going to achieve your
• 18:45
  goals in life.
• 18:46
  I've met so many hundreds of students who could not achieve what they wanted out of life
• 18:52
  because they couldn't deal with the anxiety, the stress, the fear, the overwhelm, the
• 18:56
  disappointment.
• 18:57
  They just don't know what to do with it and over time it just catches up and they give
• 19:00
  up.
• 19:01
  And is there...
• 19:02
  I mean, I guess it doesn't really matter if there's some sort of...
• 19:09
  Some sort of upbringing that creates a certain ability to regulate or not.
• 19:15
  I'm sure that some households that are probably a little bit calmer create a person who can
• 19:21
  regulate a little bit better, but it doesn't really matter.
• 19:23
  It just matters like what you can do going forward.
• 19:26
  So even if you do come from like a very traumatic upbringing in a household where parents are
• 19:31
  fighting or there's a lot of contentiousness, there is no upbringing where you can't at some
• 19:37
  point learn to regulate.
• 19:38
  This is what we're talking about.
• 19:39
  You can learn all these things.
• 19:41
  It's 100% learned.
• 19:42
  Okay.
• 19:43
  100% learned.
• 19:44
  You are not born with a pocket full of research-based strategies to help you deal with your feelings.
• 19:49
  That's fair.
• 19:50
  That's fair.
• 19:51
  What is the difference between...
• 19:54
  I find this interesting, emotion and having emotions and being emotional, like it's almost
• 19:58
  like it becomes your identity?
• 20:00
  Well, by the way, that's another big issue these days because we've gone like to a whole
• 20:04
  another level of like high school kids telling me, I am not just feeling anxious, I am anxious,
• 20:11
  which is really problematic because we are not our feelings, our feelings are experiences.
• 20:17
  And if we identify as an emotion, that means our mindset around it is not helpful.
• 20:23
  Does that make sense?
• 20:25
  It does.
• 20:26
  I'm just thinking about all the...
• 20:27
  I think that tying your identity to anything is actually problematic in general.
• 20:31
  And I'm just...
• 20:32
  Every time you talk about emotions, I see so many parallels from when for an example
• 20:36
  an entrepreneur ties their entire identity to their business or you tie your entire identity
• 20:42
  to how much money you make, like super problematic.
• 20:44
  I agree more.
• 20:45
  I couldn't agree more.
• 20:47
  Of course, yes, it makes tons of sense.
• 20:49
  Like if you tie your identity to like what you feel, then that becomes all all...
• 20:55
  That's how it is just all consuming and it's everything, every aspect of your life is
• 20:59
  controlled by that.
• 21:01
  You said that this is more of a recent phenomenon where we consider ourselves to be our emotion
• 21:06
  not just experience it.
• 21:08
  Why is this?
• 21:09
  I think it's for, for adolescents, I think it's all about social media.
• 21:14
  It's just they're so...
• 21:16
  And they're just feeling like they're in social comparison mode all day long.
• 21:22
  Everyone's smarter.
• 21:23
  Everyone's got better lips, better hips, better biceps, better this, but you know, and it's
• 21:27
  like it just puts you in that cycle of never ending feeling less than.
• 21:35
  Which by the way, going to...
• 21:37
  Going back to the L of Ruler, I did this big study with college students and they also
• 21:45
  they were stressed.
• 21:47
  And I, you know, I have empathy for people in general.
• 21:50
  I think I'm a pretty empathic guy.
• 21:53
  But I also was not believing they were so stressed because it's not that hard to be a student
• 21:59
  at my university.
• 22:00
  I mean, it's the course they're tough.
• 22:01
  I'm like, look at me, you got a great professor.
• 22:05
  And so I challenged them to really do a deep dive into their stressors.
• 22:13
  And lo and behold, what I found was that the number one emotion based on the themes for
• 22:18
  the reasons they were saying they were stressed was...
• 22:21
  Was it their identity?
• 22:22
  No.
• 22:23
  Well, it's around it.
• 22:24
  But was there, what was the number one feeling?
• 22:26
  Do you think they were actually having...
• 22:27
  Oh, the reason?
• 22:28
  The real feeling.
• 22:29
  Not stressant?
• 22:30
  Overwhelmed?
• 22:31
  One of those two for sure.
• 22:32
  Yeah.
• 22:33
  So comparison would lead to what emotion?
• 22:36
  Envy?
• 22:37
  Or jealousy?
• 22:38
  Jealousy.
• 22:39
  Okay.
• 22:40
  So it had nothing to do with the schoolwork at all, actually, that was causing them stress.
• 22:43
  The way it had to do with schoolwork was that, you know, this person can study for less
• 22:47
  hours and get better grades.
• 22:48
  That's so interesting.
• 22:49
  So there was still this like social comparison component that tied back to like not enough
• 22:56
  that created jealousy.
• 22:58
  And they're labeling it as stress.
• 23:00
  So it's totally not stress at all.
• 23:03
  It's envy and jealousy.
• 23:04
  That's so interesting.
• 23:05
  And then they're going for counselors who don't know the difference between stress, envy
• 23:10
  and anxiety, and they're given like yoga exercises and mindfulness exercises.
• 23:15
  And meanwhile, their peer, whatever, their classmates is still studying four hours and
• 23:20
  getting like the best work.
• 23:21
  And they're sitting around, you got better lips, you got better hips, you're better than
• 23:24
  this, you're better than me.
• 23:25
  Then they just...
• 23:26
  I don't know how yoga is going to take away your self.
• 23:28
  Not.
• 23:30
  Right.
• 23:31
  Why I love yoga, by the way.
• 23:32
  I have no problem with yoga, but it's just not the right...
• 23:35
  It's not the right strategy for the emotion.
• 23:37
  Why are we so bad at intuitively labeling our own emotions properly?
• 23:43
  Again, no one taught us how.
• 23:45
  It wasn't a priority.
• 23:47
  You know, it's like we tend to be called clumpers.
• 23:50
  I feel like shit.
• 23:51
  I feel fine.
• 23:52
  So we're done.
• 23:53
  We're done.
• 23:54
  Just bulk all these emotions.
• 23:55
  Well, we don't get to that granularity of, is it anxiety, stress, pressure, fear,
• 24:00
  or well?
• 24:01
  Is it happiness, elation, ecstasy, or just contentment or tranquility or peace?
• 24:07
  Is it because, from a biological perspective, there's certain chemical reactions, certain
• 24:13
  emotions that feel like others, and we just really don't know, we just pay attention
• 24:16
  to the reaction?
• 24:17
  Well, there is a problem there, too, because a lot of people...
• 24:23
  We do feel emotions in our body, for sure, and we have the same sensations for similar
• 24:29
  emotions.
• 24:30
  I'm just wondering where that clumping comes from, and everything.
• 24:32
  Oh, it just comes from not being taught the specific emotion words, people just, you
• 24:38
  know, honey.
• 24:39
  You know, like, I don't know about you when you were growing up and let's say you were
• 24:41
  coming down the stairs and you're getting ready for school and you're, oh, shoulder's
• 24:45
  a little slumped and you look a little different than the day before.
• 24:50
  You know, did you have a parent and say, hey, you know, hey, Scott, you know, I'm noticing
• 24:54
  your body language is different today.
• 24:56
  You know, let's have some breakfast together and talk about how you're feeling, really.
• 25:01
  Dad, no, I'm not in the mood for that right now.
• 25:02
  I just want to go to school.
• 25:03
  Honey, I know you want to go to school, but, you know, come on, let's just trick him.
• 25:07
  I didn't have that.
• 25:08
  I didn't have that either.
• 25:09
  Yeah.
• 25:10
  And if, you know, I'm sure my mom would have probably, if you noticed something, tried
• 25:14
  to do that, and I probably would have ran away as fast as I could.
• 25:17
  That's true, too.
• 25:18
  And that's part of the kind of cultural piece, too, that we have grown up in a society,
• 25:23
  especially for boys and men, you know, like your week, if you talk about feelings, you're
• 25:28
  just supposed to, you know, knock on it, buckle up, kiddo, suck it up, which is ridiculous.
• 25:33
  I mean, everybody has emotions and there's nothing wrong with them.
• 25:38
  There's no bad emotions.
• 25:39
  Remember, we have to learn how to regulate them.
• 25:41
  So, but you can't regulate if you don't know how you're feeling.
• 25:45
  So what we've covered actually are the first two buckets in my work in my book.
• 25:49
  The first bucket is the mindset piece, just emotions or data.
• 25:56
  That's freedom.
• 25:57
  The second bucket is we got to have language for those feelings.
• 26:00
  We need to get more precise.
• 26:02
  Some people say you got to name it, to tame it.
• 26:04
  I say you got to label it, to regulate it, you got to have a little phrases.
• 26:08
  Then there are actual like real strategies.
• 26:11
  By the way, those strategies are sometimes enough.
• 26:14
  Sometimes you're saying, wow Mark, you're really envious of this guy or you're really frustrated
• 26:19
  right now.
• 26:20
  Yeah, I am.
• 26:21
  Okay.
• 26:22
  That awareness is a gift.
• 26:25
  I can just let it go.
• 26:28
  Sometimes it's not enough.
• 26:29
  And that's why you need more strategies.
• 26:31
  So another bucket would be the breathing and mindfulness bucket.
• 26:34
  It is, I was joking about it earlier, but it's really important.
• 26:38
  You need to know how to breathe, to deactivate your nervous system.
• 26:41
  In many ways, especially like when we're with our partners or we're at work and we get
• 26:46
  triggered by a colleague or a boss, you really have to deactivate before you say anything.
• 26:53
  It is too, because what happens when we're triggered, we go to our automatic habitual retaliatory
• 27:00
  strategies as opposed to our go-to helpful strategies.
• 27:05
  You can down-regulate through breath or through some kind of reflection exercise, at least
• 27:10
  you can say, Mark, take the high road.
• 27:12
  Like I have a lot of phrases for myself.
• 27:15
  One of them is like, Mark, I do say, Mark, take the high road.
• 27:20
  When I'm really upset about something, I say, Mark, you know this is impermanent.
• 27:26
  Because I have a problem with emotions myself as an expert.
• 27:31
  When I feel the strong emotion, like in a relationship, it feels like it's permanent.
• 27:36
  Do you remember that?
• 27:37
  I know exactly what you mean.
• 27:38
  It's like this weird thing, like when I'm angry with you right now, it's like my anger
• 27:42
  for you is forever.
• 27:44
  But that's why, because it's all consuming.
• 27:48
  It's all consuming.
• 27:49
  And if you don't recognize that, that it isn't going to be all consuming and over time,
• 27:54
  you're going to chill out.
• 27:56
  All emotions are a femoral, a new rule, another rule.
• 28:00
  Emotions are impermanent.
• 28:03
  That's part of when I talk to people who say, I am actually, I'm like, tell me about
• 28:06
  your day.
• 28:07
  When you were at the gym, when you were at lunch with your friends, you know, when you're
• 28:12
  doing this project, when you were doing your musical work, did you feel it then?
• 28:15
  Oh, actually, it was in a great place.
• 28:17
  Oh, so then you are not anxious.
• 28:20
  You have moments of anxiety and we have a negativity bias.
• 28:24
  So when we're asked to reflect on our emotions, oftentimes we focus on the negative ones.
• 28:30
  I'm going to add on one more piece because you said when you are feeling a certain way,
• 28:34
  especially anger or some kind of emotion that's like really charged, I'm not going to
• 28:39
  say bad anymore.
• 28:40
  Just like a charged emotion.
• 28:42
  Good boy.
• 28:43
  Exactly.
• 28:44
  Then it's not only about responding.
• 28:46
  Your decision making ability is completely, it's gone to shit, basically.
• 28:52
  So every decision you make is going to be less effective because you're doing through
• 28:56
  the emotion.
• 28:57
  There are things that aren't related to that person.
• 28:59
  I want to be careful about that.
• 29:01
  So what I would say is that this is a real nuance here that you can make a good decision
• 29:12
  feeling any emotion as long as you're aware that you're feeling the emotion and regulating
• 29:20
  it effectively when you're making the decision.
• 29:23
  There's a difference.
• 29:24
  Do you see the difference?
• 29:25
  Yes.
• 29:26
  So you can be angry and still make a good decision if you know that you're angry and you
• 29:30
  are compartmentalizing that feeling away from the decision.
• 29:34
  Because if I get off a bad call or I get off a bad email, it's so funny that you mentioned
• 29:39
  breathing exercises.
• 29:40
  Whenever I'm actually angry at work, I intuitively go for a walk, for a run, go to the gym because
• 29:46
  I find that I make better decisions after.
• 29:48
  I've never really once thought and walked through that in my head of, okay, I'm angry
• 29:57
  now.
• 29:58
  Let me not make that next bad decision.
• 30:00
  That has nothing to do with the anger.
• 30:02
  But I've just through experience realized that my decision making ability is skewed to
• 30:07
  a degree.
• 30:08
  So I try and like separate it with a physical activity.
• 30:12
  But that was just a learned response over time.
• 30:16
  But this is something that you can actually.
• 30:18
  Yeah.
• 30:19
  And so you have a go to strategy, which is taking a walk, you know, giving yourself some
• 30:23
  space or going to the gym.
• 30:24
  I do, when I was writing my book, I was like, out of my mind.
• 30:28
  There were some days I was like, I hate my life.
• 30:30
  I hate writing.
• 30:31
  Like this is boring.
• 30:32
  Nobody's going to want to read it.
• 30:34
  And in those moments, I wouldn't push through.
• 30:37
  I'd say, Mark, you're done right now.
• 30:40
  Like anything comes out and I was going to be shit anyway.
• 30:43
  I shut the computer and I went to the gym.
• 30:46
  And I told myself.
• 30:47
  One of my, I hired a trainer during COVID, you know, after and after COVID, because I was
• 30:52
  like, I ate way too much Thai food and needed to like, give me the wheelchair.
• 30:58
  And I remember joking with them.
• 31:01
  I said, you know, I may never finish this book, but I'm going to be the best freaking
• 31:04
  shape I've ever been in.
• 31:06
  And it was like, it really actually was amazing to me.
• 31:09
  But similar to you is that if I would get like kind of just like lost or just kind of
• 31:14
  like just feel like it's not going anywhere, close the computer, go outside.
• 31:19
  I live in the countryside.
• 31:21
  I'd look at the beautiful nature or I go take a, you know, do a little, some yoga or
• 31:25
  a workout, come back, always in better place, always, it's just like amazing.
• 31:31
  But let me get to the science for a minute because I think this is interesting because
• 31:34
  we're, we're kind of talking about it, but let me clarify it, which is that, you know,
• 31:40
  we live in a roller coaster ride of emotions.
• 31:43
  Some days, you know, you're at work, let's say you're going into work, like people who
• 31:47
  are listening probably travel to work oftentimes, while they work at home.
• 31:51
  But let's imagine this scenario, you're traveling, traveling to work, but you had a fight with
• 31:56
  your kid or your partner or your spouse, you know, on the way to work.
• 31:59
  And you're like, in the car, I can't take anymore.
• 32:01
  This is bullshit.
• 32:03
  You know, this is me being a little bit therapeutic here.
• 32:07
  And so, and then you open the door to your office and someone says, what do you think
• 32:12
  about that?
• 32:13
  And you're like, I hate it.
• 32:15
  I do a lot of evaluating of people's work or they're writing, you know, their grant
• 32:19
  proposals.
• 32:20
  I'm like, oh, this study is terrible.
• 32:22
  And I'm not realizing that it's the emotion that's driving the judgment.
• 32:29
  It's not marks, marks not being rational in that moment.
• 32:33
  Work is allowing the emotion.
• 32:35
  And this is interesting because it's called incidental emotional leakage.
• 32:40
  So like, I'm angry at my home life and I'm not processing it well.
• 32:47
  And what I'm allowing me to do is subconsciously influence the choice that has nothing to
• 32:52
  do with the argument I had at home.
• 32:53
  So we're talking about, so this is a real phenomenon.
• 32:56
  It's a real phenomenon.
• 32:57
  It happens all the time.
• 32:59
  And so, the antidote is very simple.
• 33:03
  It goes back to RUL.
• 33:05
  It's before you open the door to your office, you take a breath and you say to yourself,
• 33:12
  what I'm really in a bad place right now, I can't say bad, I'm in a dark place, I'm
• 33:17
  in a frustrated, I'm angry.
• 33:19
  What's going on?
• 33:20
  Oh, I'm, you know, it's the fifth time I told my spouse that I didn't want to walk
• 33:25
  the dogs and I, you know, I needed to get to work today.
• 33:28
  You know, running late and I'm so annoyed, I'm so frustrated at my spouse.
• 33:33
  Oh, okay.
• 33:35
  Then you walk into the door and you, you've attributed, you use the word compartmentalize,
• 33:40
  which is okay, but it's really about attribution.
• 33:43
  I've attributed the emotion to its actual cause.
• 33:48
  So no longer have that subconscious influence.
• 33:51
  All of these, all of these strategies.
• 33:53
  This is what comprises emotional educations.
• 33:58
  Just a frame, I don't, I want to go back to Ruler again and we'll keep going through,
• 34:02
  but what would in your perfect world emotional education actually look like?
• 34:08
  Like, I just want to go back to kindergarten or a way to do that because that's where my
• 34:12
  work is primarily.
• 34:14
  So I have a program that's also called Ruler that's in 5,000 schools across the United
• 34:20
  States and in 33 other countries.
• 34:23
  And it is a pre-K, pre-school, to high school curriculum that's developmental.
• 34:30
  Teaching kids about emotions and the emotional intelligence.
• 34:33
  And it looks like, you know, think about it when you're in 5 years old, you learn the
• 34:36
  word sad and you learn lonely and what does that really mean?
• 34:41
  What does that feel like in your body?
• 34:42
  What are your thoughts when you're sad?
• 34:44
  And then you get disappointment and you have despair and hopelessness and depression
• 34:49
  and, you know, those long, you know, that kind of trajectory of emotion that's in a
• 34:56
  category, you know, of sadness.
• 34:59
  Same thing with anger, I could be peved and irritated and angry and live it and enraged
• 35:03
  or I could be calm content, tranquil, peaceful or feeling bliss now and I know why you don't
• 35:08
  like the word good.
• 35:09
  You have a much more powerful thoughts for that.
• 35:12
  Exactly.
• 35:13
  I mean, if I don't have a good emotion but I can't really, nobody will.
• 35:17
  But what we do as a curriculum for kids and the adults who are serving kids because they
• 35:22
  haven't had the education they need to teach it.
• 35:25
  So ruler is both for the leaders and teachers of kids and also the students is we provide
• 35:31
  the language for them to learn.
• 35:33
  And then there's always exercises kids link it to characters and history or they write
• 35:38
  a poem about it or they do a character analysis, then they do role plays around like situations
• 35:44
  in school where they feel these emotions and then what do you do when your friends
• 35:47
  feeling left out in the playground?
• 35:49
  What do you go to strategies?
• 35:51
  Do you have them?
• 35:52
  Well, if not, let's talk about them.
• 35:53
  What are some helpful things?
• 35:54
  And they problem solve through that and then they apply that to themselves and that gets
• 35:59
  kind of done across development.
• 36:01
  When you have a child who's gone through this program, I'm assuming it's relatively new.
• 36:06
  It's not, it's not something that's been around for 40 years.
• 36:09
  No, it's been around, well, truthfully, my whole career is because of my uncle who was
• 36:16
  my hero in life, who was developing a curriculum like this in the 1970s.
• 36:21
  He was one teacher in New York State way out of his time then.
• 36:25
  Way, I mean, God, a little more of him was like a pioneer.
• 36:29
  I'm lucky, I discovered him and literally he and I worked together for the first 10 years
• 36:36
  of my career to build up a lot of these curriculum.
• 36:40
  Then I went to Yale and scaled it.
• 36:42
  I was going to ask what is the result of a child that goes through this versus somebody
• 36:46
  who does not?
• 36:48
  Better mental health, better physical health, better academic performance, happy health
• 36:55
  and positive.
• 36:57
  Oh, and there's been meta analyses which are studies of studies at this point done on curriculum
• 37:03
  like ruler and others and the evidence is consistently clear.
• 37:07
  Kids do better academically, they do better in terms of their friendships, there's less
• 37:11
  bullying in the schools and they're healthier, happier people.
• 37:15
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• 37:16
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• 37:20
  For me, it just used to be whatever I could grab, which usually meant skipping meals entirely
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• 39:57
  Now it's nice if we have this available to my kids or kids that are currently in school.
• 40:04
  You mentioned for an adult, they can read books, they can educate themselves.
• 40:08
  But where would an adult start?
• 40:10
  I think starting with, again, reading, I feel like I'm like massive self-promoter today.
• 40:17
  No, but it's important because somebody who's listening to this, I don't want them to
• 40:20
  think, well, I've never learned this.
• 40:22
  I'm going to read one book, but they're going to read one book, but reading one book doesn't
• 40:26
  change your life.
• 40:27
  No, it's got, well, maybe if it's a really good book, but I mean, come on, let me actually
• 40:33
  can I tell you a funny story about this?
• 40:35
  So I got a letter.
• 40:37
  This is my first book, which is called Permission to Feel, which is kind of like my baby.
• 40:43
  I got a letter after writing that book from a 94 year old man.
• 40:48
  He wrote me a note and he says, dear Mark, I finished reading your book and I cannot tell
• 40:55
  you how helpful it was for me, even in my 90s.
• 40:58
  I only wish I had learned this when I was younger because I would have been a better
• 41:02
  husband, I would have been a better parent, but I'm grateful to have these strategies
• 41:06
  now in my life.
• 41:07
  I wrote him, I was like a sterical crying from this, like it was 94 old man and from
• 41:11
  like a lawyer from Boston, a real wasp guy, writing to some Jewish neurotic psychologist
• 41:16
  that he's thankful for his book, it's pretty good.
• 41:20
  And I write him back.
• 41:22
  Now in my book, I dedicate my book to my Uncle Marvin because he, I had pretty traumatic
• 41:27
  childhood that included abuse and my uncle really pulled me through that.
• 41:32
  And so I have a phrase that we have to have more Uncle Marvin's in the world and I have
• 41:37
  a whole study on that too, but that's separate.
• 41:40
  So this guy writes me back and I say to him, you know, gosh, thank you so much for that
• 41:45
  letter.
• 41:46
  I just made my day, you know, it makes what I do worth doing.
• 41:50
  And he writes me back again and he goes, no Mark, thank you for being my Uncle Marvin.
• 41:55
  Wow.
• 41:56
  I'm like, okay, I've had an, I need therapy, I'm like, this is too much.
• 42:00
  So there's no, there's no age where this can't be learned.
• 42:04
  No age.
• 42:05
  It's sad that we don't have this in a curriculum.
• 42:08
  What we do, we have it, I'm in 5,000 schools, I want to be in 50,000 schools.
• 42:14
  It's sad that it was never a focus outside of your work and Uncle Marvin.
• 42:18
  And this pushback on it now too, by the way.
• 42:20
  Why?
• 42:21
  By the way, the state that we're recording this in is not very fond of the work that we
• 42:25
  do.
• 42:26
  For real.
• 42:27
  For real.
• 42:29
  What?
• 42:30
  See, I don't understand how this could be a political thing at all because it just seems
• 42:34
  like when I listen to the, like listen, from just personal experience, dealing with emotions
• 42:41
  and emotions being a huge part of my success, the ones that have sort of taken me the next
• 42:48
  level, the ones that I have to learn to manage so that I can be a competent professional.
• 42:53
  There is zero about emotion that I don't see to be a benefit if you just learn more about
• 42:59
  it.
• 43:00
  I couldn't agree more.
• 43:01
  Like I don't quite understand.
• 43:02
  Yeah, me neither.
• 43:03
  Either would be pushback.
• 43:05
  The pushback is that it's the parents job to teach this.
• 43:09
  And my pushback to that is like parents, you haven't done such a good job.
• 43:14
  More often than not.
• 43:15
  Yeah.
• 43:16
  If anything, like the anxiety levels in our society, if parents were doing a great job
• 43:19
  at teaching kids emotional intelligence, you know, and I'm not bashing parents now.
• 43:25
  Parents are doing the best they can.
• 43:26
  They never have the education either.
• 43:28
  Yeah, but I wouldn't say that all parents should teach math and science and all the other
• 43:33
  topics and I couldn't agree more as a, I don't have kids yet, but I can guarantee you when
• 43:38
  I do have kids, I'm not going to know every single, you know, historical English lit book
• 43:43
  that we should unpack.
• 43:44
  Like what?
• 43:45
  It's not like I can teach you maybe a little bit about social media and podcasting, but
• 43:47
  yeah, yeah.
• 43:48
  Well, they think that, you know, some people believe that it's like prying, like you're
• 43:52
  trying to like pull private information out of kids and that's the problem.
• 43:57
  And so I tell them like, I have, that's not what we do.
• 44:00
  We teach kids language to describe their feelings and we teach them evidence-based strategies
• 44:06
  to help them regulate their emotions.
• 44:08
  And importantly, we don't tell them when and how they should feel what they should feel,
• 44:13
  nor do we tell them what strategies they supposed to use.
• 44:15
  We just make the offering.
• 44:17
  So they have that edge of issue, I know that you, you can verbalize how you're feeling.
• 44:21
  And also choose a strategy that works for you.
• 44:24
  Like I didn't know anything about a technique, for example, that's called psychological distancing.
• 44:31
  It's one of the most helpful regulation strategies I've ever learned, which is kind of ask
• 44:37
  like, for example, I mean, we're talking, you know, to, you know, people in the 30s, 40s
• 44:43
  that are, you know, working adults, they're in relationships.
• 44:46
  Things, do you ever get triggered by your partner?
• 44:49
  Not, not often.
• 44:50
  You've been in a while.
• 44:51
  But if you're careful, you're pretty good.
• 44:52
  You're pretty good.
• 44:53
  No, but of course, I mean, we've been together for like six and a half years.
• 44:56
  There's been times where we trigger each other a hundred percent.
• 44:58
  Exactly.
• 44:59
  Over the stupidest things, right?
• 45:00
  Of course.
• 45:01
  Yeah.
• 45:02
  It's like at the grocery store.
• 45:03
  Like, why are you buying that?
• 45:04
  I have a thing with that.
• 45:05
  Like, why do we need that?
• 45:06
  I have a thing with that too, because she loves all organic everything, which is probably
• 45:10
  healthy.
• 45:11
  It's probably a good thing, but then we don't finish it.
• 45:14
  So then we have this like dead, wasted, you know, moldy vegetable that lasted two days
• 45:19
  in our fridge.
• 45:20
  I'm like, why did you get that?
• 45:21
  That was $19.
• 45:22
  A hundred percent.
• 45:23
  I mean, we have the same triggers.
• 45:25
  We should go grocery shopping, I guess.
• 45:27
  So yes.
• 45:28
  All those little things.
• 45:29
  Right.
• 45:30
  In that moment, like, you have to decide, am I going to like be at the grocery store like
• 45:35
  over my girlfriend's shoulder saying like, why are you buying that's ridiculous?
• 45:39
  Don't do it.
• 45:40
  Don't do it.
• 45:41
  Or are you going to be like, Scott?
• 45:45
  Is this really that important to my relationship?
• 45:48
  No.
• 45:49
  Not at all.
• 45:50
  But in that moment, you just want to be like, give me that lettuce.
• 45:53
  Yeah.
• 45:54
  Throw it back at me in the freezer or the refrigerator.
• 45:58
  It's like, yeah, and I have the same issue because I'm like, we have this thing with like
• 46:01
  organic almond milk.
• 46:03
  I'm like, this is a rip off.
• 46:05
  Oh my God.
• 46:06
  Organic almond milk.
• 46:08
  That sounds expensive.
• 46:09
  Or the little, what is it like the $30 strawberries from Aeroan or whatever they are?
• 46:13
  Oh, I wouldn't even walk into Aeroan.
• 46:15
  I don't either.
• 46:16
  I don't either.
• 46:17
  I have walked in.
• 46:18
  Actually, it's nice.
• 46:19
  But I have to like close my eyes.
• 46:21
  The ones that you should that are protecting you versus things that are silly, sort of
• 46:30
  non-consequential emotional, for example, like the irritation at the grocery store.
• 46:34
  The irritation at the grocery store versus someone disrespecting you.
• 46:37
  Yeah.
• 46:38
  Totally different.
• 46:39
  How do you understand?
• 46:41
  Because there could be this, this, this sort of, like they're both anger.
• 46:45
  They're both anger.
• 46:46
  Both injustices because you think it's an injustice to buy that lettuce.
• 46:49
  But if somebody, obviously, if somebody, if a girlfriend is cheating on you, Gina never
• 46:53
  has, thank God.
• 46:54
  But if someone is cheating on you versus somebody who's buying a tomato, and there's a sliding
• 46:58
  spectrum of emotions on, and every single bit of injustice between those two extremes,
• 47:06
  how do we know which one should inform our actions versus which ones are?
• 47:10
  And there's a, this would be probably adding a lot to this conversation about like moral
• 47:14
  and ethics and what, what you want from a partner or you want from a job.
• 47:19
  You're getting at the point, though, which is that the, it's about the relevance and
• 47:25
  meaningfulness, you know, of that relationship and the emotion, you know, and what do I do
• 47:32
  about it?
• 47:33
  The context matters.
• 47:34
  This leads to the, the overreaction, right, for things that should not be overreacted
• 47:39
  too.
• 47:40
  If you act your life, you know, like someone lied at work to, you know, get ahead, like,
• 47:49
  that's a big deal.
• 47:50
  And so you're going to have to come up with a good strategy to deal with the anger with
• 47:54
  that person and also have the courage to talk to the boss and, you know, that's a strategy
• 47:58
  that needs to be played out and thought through it really carefully.
• 48:02
  And I think that then I, where I was going with this was what happens if we have past triggers
• 48:06
  that make us overreact to things.
• 48:09
  Yeah, which is common when the person doesn't deserve it.
• 48:12
  For example, then you have to really pay attention to that and in that moment, say, is
• 48:19
  this really about what's happening now or is this my past?
• 48:24
  And this brings us back to the actual being able to recognize it and name it 100%.
• 48:29
  You know, I think that a lot of people, this is where there's a strong connection to
• 48:34
  the trauma literature.
• 48:35
  Yeah, I feel that.
• 48:38
  And I am part of my, you know, we do work in trauma, which I think is important work.
• 48:45
  At the same time, the goal of life is to move forward.
• 48:51
  The goal of life is to move forward, not to move backward.
• 48:54
  I come from, I was, I was sexually abused as a kid for five years of my childhood by
• 48:59
  my parents best friend.
• 49:00
  I appreciate that.
• 49:02
  Every time I was seeing an Instagram post about abuse or every time I was in a meeting as
• 49:09
  a psychologist about abuse, I was triggered, I would go crazy.
• 49:13
  And so I've had, I've learned to really understand, you know, that I am going back to defining
• 49:19
  yourself.
• 49:20
  I don't define myself as a sexually abused person.
• 49:24
  I define myself as a human being who experienced childhood sexual abuse.
• 49:30
  And I have, I don't deny it.
• 49:33
  I don't ignore it, but I have put it in its place in my life.
• 49:39
  Do I get triggered?
• 49:40
  Do I feel strong emotions when I see abuse happening in the world?
• 49:44
  Of course I do.
• 49:45
  Do I, is it part of my passion for making sure people have the courage to talk about their
• 49:50
  feelings, which I didn't have as a kid?
• 49:52
  Of course it does, but I'm sublimating that negative experience into, you know, trying
• 49:56
  to make the world a better place.
• 49:58
  And I think that if you're constantly in a triggered space, I think that's an opportunity
• 50:08
  for growth, not an opportunity to believe that the world needs to change to make your
• 50:18
  life better.
• 50:19
  Understood.
• 50:20
  So it's more of an internal locus of control and, and you take responsibility.
• 50:24
  I think it's an orange scenario.
• 50:27
  We went a little way, we got heavy for many years.
• 50:28
  I know, I know, but I think it's important too, because I think that it's heavy, but it's
• 50:33
  real.
• 50:34
  It's real.
• 50:35
  We all have traumatic experiences, little, I have a big one, some people have little
• 50:38
  ones, some people don't have any.
• 50:41
  But I think that the goal of life, I just want to say there's a hundred times, the goal
• 50:47
  of life is to move forward, not backward.
• 50:50
  And if we're going to allow ourselves to always be triggered by things from our past and
• 50:57
  not kind of understand those and put them, you know, in a place in our life that isn't
• 51:04
  so controlling over us, if we can do that, our life's going to be better.
• 51:10
  When we go through this process and we can identify and we can regulate to a greater
• 51:14
  degree, you mentioned this improves overall mental health.
• 51:17
  It does.
• 51:18
  What can this do for us?
• 51:20
  What can it not do?
• 51:21
  So can it, can it help us heal trauma?
• 51:24
  Can it help us?
• 51:25
  It can help us do a lot then.
• 51:27
  I think emotion regulation is the most powerful skill that anybody can learn.
• 51:33
  And the research is there to support it.
• 51:35
  If you can deal with your emotions, with the anger, the frustration, the overwhelming
• 51:38
  fear, you're going to have better physical health, you're going to have better mental
• 51:42
  health, you're going to have better relationships.
• 51:45
  And actually the research shows that you're going to live longer, you'll have a longer
• 51:48
  healthier life.
• 51:49
  Is that because of high blood pressure, cortisol levels are going to be lower.
• 51:54
  If you can regulate your emotions, you're not going to be having these cortisol spikes
• 51:58
  all the day all day long.
• 51:59
  You know, I was at a conference recently where a friend of mine was talking about mental
• 52:05
  health and trauma.
• 52:07
  And it was a great conversation we had because, you know, how sometimes you, you know, you
• 52:12
  remember like you get into bed at night, if you're a parent, you do this with your kids
• 52:15
  or you're even with your partner.
• 52:17
  And like you start talking about what went wrong that day, well, that's going to spike
• 52:21
  cortisol levels, right, because it's going to, you're going to go into fight play mode.
• 52:25
  You're going to be activated, which is going to make rest more difficult.
• 52:30
  So there's a prevention strategy.
• 52:32
  Don't talk about the bad shit before you go into bed, do it late afternoon over a cup
• 52:37
  of coffee, call somebody up then because you want to go into your night with cortisol
• 52:43
  levels dropping so that you can get a good night's sleep.
• 52:47
  Who learned that growing up?
• 52:48
  No one.
• 52:49
  No one.
• 52:50
  Of course not.
• 52:51
  Of course not.
• 52:52
  But that's like a real concrete strategy to make a huge difference in your life that by
• 52:56
  the way, and if you have, you know, the cortisol spikes, which leads to chronic or toxic
• 53:01
  stress is what makes your life shorter.
• 53:03
  Well, if you can use it evidence-based strategy, which is like talking about that earlier
• 53:09
  in the day so that your mind can be more at ease when you go to bed, guess what?
• 53:14
  You're going to be healthier.
• 53:15
  Your immune system is going to be stronger.
• 53:17
  So there's not really a part of your life that doesn't improve.
• 53:21
  I don't think so.
• 53:22
  I think it improves everything.
• 53:23
  I just thought it was interesting how you've said that we are very bad at naming, labeling
• 53:28
  our own emotions.
• 53:30
  And then I was thinking about how many words you were just using to describe very similar
• 53:34
  experiences.
• 53:35
  So, yeah, without the education, it makes sense we're very bad at labeling our own emotions.
• 53:40
  So if we're talking about differences between a certain kind of emotion, something that
• 53:44
  people would normally get confused.
• 53:46
  So stress, anxiety, pressure, fear, overall.
• 53:49
  You mentioned that ironically, these were all things that maybe some of your students
• 53:54
  described that was actually jealousy.
• 53:56
  So it's not even just that we are completely wrong.
• 53:59
  We could even be wrong if we, if the emotions are a little bit more closer together, closer
• 54:04
  together.
• 54:05
  Yeah, that's a good way of saying it.
• 54:07
  The same family.
• 54:08
  The same family of emotions.
• 54:10
  Why are we so bad at understanding, even within the same family, what are our emotions?
• 54:14
  Is it because you don't have a proper definition of what they, what they are?
• 54:18
  And then what happens when we mislabel?
• 54:20
  So let's think about it.
• 54:24
  Anxiety, stress, pressure, fear, overwhelmed.
• 54:27
  Oh my.
• 54:30
  Anxiety is about uncertainty.
• 54:33
  I get anxious when I can't control the future or predict the future.
• 54:37
  I'm stressed when I have too many demands on me and I don't have enough resources to
• 54:41
  deal with those demands.
• 54:43
  Same or different.
• 54:44
  Different.
• 54:45
  Different.
• 54:46
  Different, much different.
• 54:47
  Fear is when there's an immediate impending danger.
• 54:50
  Also different.
• 54:51
  Different.
• 54:52
  Anxiety, stress, pressure, pressure.
• 54:55
  Something at stake is dependent upon your behavior.
• 54:58
  Also different.
• 54:59
  Yeah.
• 55:00
  Exactly.
• 55:01
  Overwhelmed.
• 55:02
  You're just saturated with emotion.
• 55:04
  What would be when you have too much happening and not enough time to do it?
• 55:08
  Stress.
• 55:09
  That would be stress as well.
• 55:10
  Yeah.
• 55:11
  Okay.
• 55:12
  So you have too many constraints.
• 55:13
  Too many things to accomplish.
• 55:14
  Correct.
• 55:15
  So why would that, like, why would you, Scott, be better at regulating your emotions if
• 55:23
  you were more granular or specific?
• 55:25
  Because I would know what's causing the emotion.
• 55:27
  I would know how to deal with the thing.
• 55:33
  So for example, if I'm feeling fear, fear means that something is immediate and present.
• 55:40
  Well I can't feel fear about a big project or a big presentation or a speech that I'm
• 55:47
  speaking in front of 5,000 people and I've never spoken in front of that many people before
• 55:52
  and it's in three months from now.
• 55:55
  But I'm like, I say it's fear but it's not fear.
• 55:59
  It's not fear.
• 56:00
  So that means that I'm actually tackling the wrong emotion.
• 56:02
  So if I want to strategy to remove some sort of feeling, then I have to name the right
• 56:08
  thing.
• 56:09
  Yeah.
• 56:10
  Quite simply.
• 56:11
  It's anxiety because you're uncertain about the future.
• 56:12
  Yes.
• 56:13
  You're making your prediction that it's not going to go well.
• 56:14
  So then I can do it now.
• 56:15
  I can have a strategy that deals with anxiety as opposed to a fear based.
• 56:19
  Exactly.
• 56:20
  The fear is sort of like you're in it.
• 56:21
  Yeah.
• 56:22
  There's nothing.
• 56:23
  Once you're in it, it's tough.
• 56:24
  Then it's like run away.
• 56:25
  You know, when the, you know, but then people could have the wrong reaction.
• 56:29
  Then they could, for example, they could self-sabotage and because they think it's fear,
• 56:32
  maybe they cancel the speaking engagement because they don't want to go on stage, even
• 56:35
  though that's totally not the thing.
• 56:36
  This is why if you don't have emotional intelligence, you don't always achieve your goals in life.
• 56:40
  You're giving the best example right there.
• 56:43
  That's why it's so important.
• 56:45
  You speak about the emotional regulation budget.
• 56:49
  Yes.
• 56:50
  When I read that or when I say that, it sounds like I can only regulate so much per what
• 56:55
  our day, lifetime.
• 56:56
  It depends on your job, you know, if you're a kindergarten teacher, it's tough work.
• 57:04
  Like, you know, think about that kindergarten teachers all day long, boys and girls and
• 57:08
  everyone.
• 57:09
  Please sit still.
• 57:10
  Sit still.
• 57:11
  If I have to tell you one more time, everybody let's smile.
• 57:12
  Let's do our little marching to the water fountain.
• 57:14
  It's a lot.
• 57:15
  Yeah, it's a lot.
• 57:16
  Think about if you're a bill collector, you know, the police officers at the airports.
• 57:20
  Ooh.
• 57:21
  Like their whole day is like move the car, move the car.
• 57:24
  I know.
• 57:25
  And they're not happy people for good reason because they're stuck in their emotion.
• 57:29
  There's a good example of that, which is, we call that emotional labor, which is another
• 57:35
  term that's about the emotion that you have to experience or that you're kind of required
• 57:41
  to or just have to do in your work, you know, it's the bill collector who's stern.
• 57:50
  It's a kindergarten teacher who's always smiling, you know, it's the professor who is
• 57:57
  always got to entertain or, you know, things of that sort.
• 58:01
  And it can be draining.
• 58:02
  Like I do like to speak publicly and I do a lot of it and I, you know, I can't come home
• 58:08
  and be like, and tonight, it doesn't work well.
• 58:12
  So if you have this regulation budget, are there ways to expand?
• 58:17
  I'm assuming going through this process and education definitely helps.
• 58:21
  Well, the budget is specific.
• 58:25
  There's a three piece to the emotion regulation budget and it's all the stuff that I think
• 58:30
  that you're interested in, which is sleep.
• 58:34
  It is food and it is activity.
• 58:38
  These things actually help expand your budget.
• 58:40
  Correct.
• 58:41
  Yeah.
• 58:42
  So it's not even education.
• 58:43
  That's the biology of regulation.
• 58:44
  Okay.
• 58:46
  You know, a lot of people, for example, a lot of young parents, they're working big
• 58:50
  jobs and they have young kids.
• 58:53
  They, I get all these phone calls and I can't deal with my, you know, I'm trying to be
• 58:56
  the best version of myself and I, and I fuck up the first thing, you know, at breakfast.
• 59:01
  And then the first thing I asked them is, A, how was your sleep last night?
• 59:06
  I didn't go to bed till midnight.
• 59:08
  Well, if you went to bed at midnight and you're up at 5 a.m., you know, it's five hours
• 59:12
  of sleep.
• 59:13
  You're not going to be the best version of yourself.
• 59:14
  So it's not that you can't be the best version of yourself.
• 59:18
  It's that you are not restoring your body.
• 59:21
  You need more budget.
• 59:24
  So that's a big deal for people.
• 59:26
  And I know people have, it's like ad nauseam how much every podcast is about sleep, but
• 59:32
  everybody needs quality sleep and longer sleep because we just need to rejuvenate.
• 59:40
  Our brains need to relax and, you know, we need time to allow those neurons to just kind
• 59:49
  of wash away the crap from the day before and restore themselves.
• 59:54
  So that's number one.
• 59:55
  Number two is food.
• 59:57
  My hunch is that you care about what you eat.
• 1:00:00
  Yeah.
• 1:00:01
  And so you know that, you know, eating a high fat, high sugar diet is not going to be great
• 1:00:06
  for you.
• 1:00:07
  No.
• 1:00:08
  It won't feel good.
• 1:00:09
  It won't look good.
• 1:00:10
  Exactly.
• 1:00:11
  Yeah.
• 1:00:12
  Exactly.
• 1:00:13
  Yeah.
• 1:00:14
  But yet when we're anxious and we're overwhelmed, it's a while ago, but about two years
• 1:00:16
  ago, I was traveling and I was so angry with myself for taking this trip to give a speech
• 1:00:21
  in the middle of nowhere land.
• 1:00:23
  And I was saying at a really shitty hotel and I had not eaten dinner, I got to the hotel
• 1:00:27
  room.
• 1:00:28
  The only thing was a bag of gummy bears, it was it.
• 1:00:33
  So the choice of starve or look like a maniac watching television at midnight eating a
• 1:00:41
  full bag of gummy bears.
• 1:00:44
  And I chose to eat half the bag.
• 1:00:47
  But I was like, and I, I, in the moment, like I'm like, you're going to hate yourself
• 1:00:52
  in the morning for doing this.
• 1:00:53
  You hate yourself right now for doing it because you know you shouldn't be doing this
• 1:00:56
  and like you didn't even eat this kind of crap.
• 1:00:58
  But the point is, I now have not traveled without a bag of protein bars.
• 1:01:05
  You will not catch me without having a healthy alternative in my backpack.
• 1:01:11
  It's changed my life because when I'm flying, I think you're going to give me that clopping
• 1:01:15
  thing.
• 1:01:16
  I'm like, no, thank you.
• 1:01:18
  And I eat this instead.
• 1:01:19
  And so that's part of me being aware that A, I'm going to have a troubled night's sleep
• 1:01:24
  but we have all that crap on my body and B, I'm going to be, I'm going to be negatively
• 1:01:29
  ruminating the following day about it, even which is going to interfere with my presentation.
• 1:01:34
  The third, and even like today, so today I had to give a speech before this.
• 1:01:40
  I just got back from London today before yesterday, actually, yeah, day before yesterday.
• 1:01:46
  And the reason I'm sharing that is that I woke up this morning too early from jet lag
• 1:01:54
  about five o'clock and I was like, Mark, you should sleep.
• 1:01:58
  I went a bit early though.
• 1:01:59
  I pushed myself to go to bed early.
• 1:02:01
  I'm sharing this with you because this may resonate with people.
• 1:02:05
  My brain was saying, Mark, you've been traveling.
• 1:02:13
  You should just like lie in bed and get room service and then watch TV and then take
• 1:02:18
  a shower and get ready for your talk.
• 1:02:21
  But Mark's like deepest true self was like, you're lying to yourself, you jerk.
• 1:02:28
  You were just like making, you were like, this is, you know that what you need to do is
• 1:02:33
  get out of bed, go to that gym, take a walk outside.
• 1:02:39
  And I, I, my, my bed herself came out.
• 1:02:42
  I got up.
• 1:02:43
  I was annoyed because there was no coffee shop open at 5.30 in the morning, but I did
• 1:02:47
  a crappy coffee in the room and I went to the gym and it transformed my whole day.
• 1:02:52
  It does.
• 1:02:53
  It does.
• 1:02:54
  So that cascade of decisions came from understanding where that emotion was coming from too.
• 1:03:00
  Correct.
• 1:03:01
  And also this is a good point, which is that it's not emotional until it's not about indulging
• 1:03:07
  in your emotions.
• 1:03:08
  If I indulge in my emotions, my emotion, which I'm not even sure what I was even feeling,
• 1:03:13
  which was tired maybe, that's just not even a feeling, I was feeling, you know, a little
• 1:03:18
  bit overwhelmed because I've been on the road so much.
• 1:03:20
  And I, my, my lazy Mark self was just staying bed, you know, you deserve the rest.
• 1:03:29
  That's going to make you feel better.
• 1:03:30
  But Mark who's been working out regularly now for a couple of years knew that Mark, do
• 1:03:38
  the forecast, do the forecast, and the forecast was I knew I would feel a lot better if I
• 1:03:45
  went to the gym, which was true.
• 1:03:47
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• 1:04:04
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• 1:04:06
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• 1:05:07
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• 1:05:08
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• 1:05:11
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• 1:05:14
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• 1:05:15
  They're also part of the HubSpot podcast network.
• 1:05:16
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• 1:05:21
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• 1:05:22
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• 1:05:25
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• 1:05:29
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• 1:05:32
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• 1:05:36
  It's so interesting.
• 1:05:37
  So sometimes your emotions, what you're describing are actually lying to you because your subconscious
• 1:05:43
  knows what is actually good for you.
• 1:05:46
  The emotions aren't lying.
• 1:05:48
  It's the strategies that you've learned over life that are making you or could be the
• 1:05:53
  lack of the sleep, the lack of nutrition that can also influence all influences your
• 1:05:58
  kind of automatic, like the lack of sleep, the lack of all that influences your cravings.
• 1:06:04
  When someone has no budget left, what are they feeling through the day?
• 1:06:10
  How can someone identify if they are, it's good to say like get more sleep, eat better,
• 1:06:15
  but what is the life of somebody or the experience of somebody who has no emotional regulation
• 1:06:21
  budget left?
• 1:06:22
  Do they just feel strung out?
• 1:06:25
  They're burnt out, they're drained, and they're making poor decisions.
• 1:06:29
  Is that the majority of people?
• 1:06:30
  It's a lot of people.
• 1:06:32
  It's a lot of people who, you know, you look at the obesity rate in our society, you
• 1:06:37
  look at the depression rates in our society.
• 1:06:39
  We know from research that exercise has the same impact as psychotherapy or drugs, different
• 1:06:47
  treatments for supporting people who have depression even.
• 1:06:52
  We have not built the muscle, you know, the learnings of, and this is by the way something
• 1:06:59
  really interesting that I want to talk about, but this is one thing because, you know,
• 1:07:03
  I'm looking at you and I know you can see you don't just, you know, you work out.
• 1:07:07
  And he's like, yeah, no, it's a big part of my life, but it's not for the aesthetic
• 1:07:12
  look good reasons.
• 1:07:13
  A lot of what we're talking about, again, I've never studied this, but peak performance,
• 1:07:18
  not from like a, you know, got to bench the most, got to run a marathon, be an Iron
• 1:07:23
  Man, got to, you know, build a billion dollar company, just like, I want to feel good
• 1:07:28
  through my day.
• 1:07:29
  I want to be, I want to be there cognitively, I want to make smart decisions, I want to
• 1:07:33
  be able to, you know, people interact with, I want to interact them with kindness and
• 1:07:38
  empathy and generally just leave the world in a better place than I found it.
• 1:07:44
  Like I just want, and it's hard for me to do that if I eat like shit.
• 1:07:48
  If I don't work out, if I get to sleep, I don't get to sleep.
• 1:07:52
  Like it's very hard in the relationship piece, which we didn't get into with another
• 1:07:54
  whole piece.
• 1:07:55
  So it's like, these are just the direction that I've moved in is better sleep, better
• 1:08:00
  food, more activity.
• 1:08:02
  And it just, it just bleeds in a positive way into all other areas of my life.
• 1:08:07
  So yes, I do work out.
• 1:08:09
  I enjoy it.
• 1:08:10
  I immensely enjoy it.
• 1:08:11
  And you know, I mentioned before, whenever I get a bad email or something like that,
• 1:08:14
  I'll go to the gym.
• 1:08:15
  So yeah, it's a super, there's a super positive reaction to that.
• 1:08:19
  And great, you look good once in a while on the beach, but the point is the rest of your
• 1:08:23
  life is much better because of it.
• 1:08:25
  Exactly.
• 1:08:26
  And it's not your only strategy.
• 1:08:27
  You're going to have to respond to the email, but you're going to respond to it in a more
• 1:08:32
  thoughtful way after you do the workout than if you just went right to the trigger.
• 1:08:36
  For sure.
• 1:08:37
  I apologize.
• 1:08:38
  I hijacked your thought.
• 1:08:39
  No, no, no.
• 1:08:40
  You were going somewhere with that.
• 1:08:42
  I want to give credit to Marco Jimenez, who is the, this trainer that I met.
• 1:08:47
  And online, I was like lying in bed, feeling not good about myself because I had my, by
• 1:08:52
  the way, my other whole life career was as a martial arts teacher.
• 1:08:56
  And we had this conversation because when I first started working out, like, I always
• 1:08:59
  been like, I did yoga, I did martial arts, but I never like lifted weights weights.
• 1:09:05
  Now I'm a four day a week lifter.
• 1:09:08
  And I've never felt better.
• 1:09:10
  And but the first phase of the workout change was like, you know, cutting the calories and,
• 1:09:18
  you know, monitoring my steps and my walking and activity and then doing the lifting.
• 1:09:23
  I mean, I would work out.
• 1:09:24
  I have such negative self-talk.
• 1:09:26
  Arch your 50 years old, like who cares about your body, even with your partner 30 years,
• 1:09:31
  you know, who cares?
• 1:09:32
  You've been, you know, your professor and nobody's looking at you.
• 1:09:36
  And I like, that's sick.
• 1:09:38
  Why am I so nasty to myself?
• 1:09:41
  And the part of the reason why I wanted to work out was for my physical health.
• 1:09:45
  But I also, you know, I do a lot of public speaking.
• 1:09:47
  I wanted to feel good when I saw the pictures of me on stage, like I want to feel good
• 1:09:52
  about how I'm representing me.
• 1:09:55
  That was important to me.
• 1:09:57
  And it wasn't in some grandiose, like, narcissistic way, which is I wanted to feel when I looked
• 1:10:02
  at the picture.
• 1:10:03
  I wasn't sure.
• 1:10:04
  Yeah.
• 1:10:05
  You look good.
• 1:10:06
  You look good.
• 1:10:07
  That's only my uncle.
• 1:10:08
  And then you look good.
• 1:10:09
  Let's remove the Florida.
• 1:10:10
  You have a little bit.
• 1:10:11
  A little bit.
• 1:10:12
  Yeah.
• 1:10:13
  A little bit.
• 1:10:14
  I know exactly what you mean.
• 1:10:15
  That's funny.
• 1:10:16
  Anyhow.
• 1:10:17
  But the point was that the first phase was like, it's like, do it at all costs.
• 1:10:24
  Like Mark plow through the negative talk, just like try to catch your negative talk and
• 1:10:31
  reframe it.
• 1:10:32
  And so that was all the cognitive strategies.
• 1:10:36
  The second phase was when I actually saw progress.
• 1:10:40
  I actually had lost the weight that I had gained.
• 1:10:42
  I saw some toe because he made me take pictures every month.
• 1:10:46
  You know, all the pictures.
• 1:10:47
  And I was like, wow, Mark, you look better.
• 1:10:49
  You look different.
• 1:10:50
  But the third phase is what interests me the most, which was when working out no longer
• 1:10:56
  really was something I had to push myself to do.
• 1:11:00
  It became part of my identity.
• 1:11:04
  And now I do see it that way.
• 1:11:05
  It's rare that I make the excuse that I did this morning.
• 1:11:08
  And I still got up and did the workout though.
• 1:11:10
  I'm proud of myself.
• 1:11:13
  And the interest that I have in my work as a psychologist is for people like you and
• 1:11:21
  for the people that are listening to your podcast to come to a place in their lives
• 1:11:26
  where they wake up every morning and actually see themselves as a highly skilled, emotionally
• 1:11:33
  intelligent person.
• 1:11:34
  So if I think about what turned you from somebody who was forcing themselves to work out to
• 1:11:39
  somebody who enjoyed it, it's because now you have this collection of evidence that
• 1:11:44
  it's in that positive in your life.
• 1:11:45
  100%.
• 1:11:46
  So it's very easy for you to do it.
• 1:11:47
  So I'm the type of like loser that will find a hotel based on how good their hotel
• 1:11:51
  gym is.
• 1:11:52
  Me too.
• 1:11:53
  I actually have a big deal for me.
• 1:11:54
  I get it.
• 1:11:55
  There's a website.
• 1:11:56
  It does it for you too.
• 1:11:57
  But is there?
• 1:11:58
  I will talk about that later.
• 1:11:59
  Yeah.
• 1:12:00
  There's a website that ranks hotel gyms.
• 1:12:01
  Love it.
• 1:12:03
  Because I know that I'm going to feel worse.
• 1:12:05
  I'm going to, I'm just going to feel lethargic and gross and I won't enjoy myself as much.
• 1:12:11
  So I'm like, okay, so how do I architect my life in a way that will support this being
• 1:12:16
  very important to me.
• 1:12:17
  And every time I travel, it's a must have you and I really the same very, very similar.
• 1:12:22
  But it's because we have this like once we see something that's a benefit in our lives.
• 1:12:26
  It's no longer a habit that you have to force.
• 1:12:28
  I'm sure that, you know, James Clear, I'm sure there's some part of his book that talks
• 1:12:32
  about this, right?
• 1:12:33
  Where the thing turns into the identity because it's so net positive for you.
• 1:12:38
  This is what people have to do with emotions.
• 1:12:40
  They have to, they have to.
• 1:12:42
  So the belief I can do this, I can label my feelings.
• 1:12:46
  I have the words to regulate them.
• 1:12:48
  I can breathe and do all those exercises to still my mind and deactivate my nervous system.
• 1:12:54
  I can stop being a freaking self-sabotor and be so self-critical, like, I'm not good
• 1:13:00
  enough.
• 1:13:01
  You know, talking about like negative talk, abs have always been my worst area.
• 1:13:06
  And you know, I was doing abs a while back and I'm like, the first two minutes, like,
• 1:13:10
  why is this in particular, again, like, it creeps back in.
• 1:13:14
  It's amazing to me.
• 1:13:15
  And I'm like, Mark, you just made a commitment, like, you were going to, this is going to
• 1:13:19
  be the month where you're going to be a Mr. positive self-talk and like 10 seconds later,
• 1:13:22
  like, never going to get those abs.
• 1:13:25
  And you have to catch that negative talk and you've got to work on it.
• 1:13:29
  You just have to.
• 1:13:30
  There's no option because it will ruin your life.
• 1:13:34
  It will ruin your life if you cannot get rid of the self-criticism.
• 1:13:39
  It's interesting because you mentioned that the people that have achieved the most have
• 1:13:43
  basically whether or not explicitly knowing it or just intuitively understood it, gone
• 1:13:47
  through this ruler process and their own life, which is interesting because there's
• 1:13:52
  a lot of these, I don't know, hustle, culture, people that just talk about, like, suppressing
• 1:14:00
  emotion.
• 1:14:01
  Yeah.
• 1:14:02
  But then it's like, those are kind of like the, there's like a ceiling on that.
• 1:14:05
  Well, the dude, I love it now because all these dudes, like other podcasts that I've been
• 1:14:10
  on, like Uberman and Chris Williamson and Monowiz and they're all talking about emotions
• 1:14:16
  now.
• 1:14:17
  It's interesting, right?
• 1:14:18
  Yeah.
• 1:14:19
  Because they realize it.
• 1:14:20
  And by the way, there are people who are successful who are not emotionally intelligent.
• 1:14:24
  We can name a few of them in our society.
• 1:14:26
  But again, what's your definition of success?
• 1:14:29
  That's what's key.
• 1:14:30
  This is what this podcast turned into.
• 1:14:32
  When I first started, it was talking about business and entrepreneurship.
• 1:14:35
  And then I started realizing, okay, if you make a little bit of money, if you're successful
• 1:14:39
  by a financial, you know, KPI or standpoint, how do you make sure the rest of your life
• 1:14:44
  doesn't go to shit?
• 1:14:45
  Correct.
• 1:14:46
  And that's very important.
• 1:14:47
  It is.
• 1:14:48
  And that's why this point of success, I actually would advocate for emotion regulation being
• 1:14:55
  a big part of our success in life.
• 1:14:57
  If your definition of success is having, is being a powerful CEO or government leader who
• 1:15:02
  doesn't care about people, you know, I don't want that success.
• 1:15:07
  I'm not interested in that as being successful.
• 1:15:09
  I'd rather see leaders who are creating a world where there's greater well-being for
• 1:15:15
  the people in that.
• 1:15:16
  And in other people's life, but also their own.
• 1:15:19
  Of course.
• 1:15:20
  You don't want to be a great CEO, oh, I say great, a successful, built a big company.
• 1:15:26
  But you know, like four X wives, kids hate you.
• 1:15:31
  You're physically out of shape.
• 1:15:32
  You feel like shit.
• 1:15:33
  Like, you don't want this stuff at all.
• 1:15:36
  The whole model that I have created with my book is about self and other.
• 1:15:41
  It's always self and other.
• 1:15:42
  I have to be a good self-regulator.
• 1:15:45
  And I've got to share the love.
• 1:15:47
  And I've got to help you as my significant other, my employee, my friend, whoever, the
• 1:15:54
  community.
• 1:15:55
  I've got to help you regulate better too.
• 1:15:57
  That's the thing that I think people have a hard time with.
• 1:15:59
  And just maybe talk about that for a second, regulating other people.
• 1:16:03
  Because I can listen to this.
• 1:16:04
  I can read the book.
• 1:16:05
  I can do the work.
• 1:16:06
  And now great.
• 1:16:07
  I'm fine.
• 1:16:08
  My spouse or my partner or the five, 10,000 people that work at my company haven't done
• 1:16:14
  any work.
• 1:16:15
  Well, you've got to create the opportunities for them, you know, they've got to read the
• 1:16:18
  book too.
• 1:16:19
  But truthfully, the relational piece of this is important, which is that, and by the way,
• 1:16:27
  I have a whole lot of studies on this.
• 1:16:29
  There are three characteristics of our emotional allies in life.
• 1:16:33
  Do you want to guess what they are?
• 1:16:35
  Three characteristics of an emotional ally.
• 1:16:38
  Okay.
• 1:16:39
  I feel like I'm going to probably miss not even define what a characteristic is, but I
• 1:16:44
  would say like supportive.
• 1:16:45
  Yeah.
• 1:16:46
  Like those kind of attributes.
• 1:16:47
  Yeah, empathetic, supportive, empathetic, caring, loving, like, is just what you're talking
• 1:16:54
  about.
• 1:16:55
  You're in the right direction.
• 1:16:56
  Okay.
• 1:16:57
  So the top three are non-judgmental.
• 1:16:58
  Oh, non-judgmental.
• 1:16:59
  That's good.
• 1:17:00
  A huge one.
• 1:17:01
  Yeah.
• 1:17:02
  I think people feel like they're endlessly judged.
• 1:17:04
  Yeah.
• 1:17:05
  And social media doesn't help.
• 1:17:07
  So we all feel it all the time.
• 1:17:08
  The second is good listening.
• 1:17:12
  Can you just listen a little bit more, please, not you, I'm not talking in this, right?
• 1:17:20
  And the third is empathy and compassion.
• 1:17:23
  There are other little ones, but those are the three big.
• 1:17:25
  And by the way, they'll show up across culturally for me, whether I'm in China or Australia
• 1:17:30
  or England or Spain or Italy.
• 1:17:34
  Now, interestingly enough, you know, ask yourself, have you worked in a, and now you have
• 1:17:39
  your own business, but have you worked for other people in the past?
• 1:17:42
  Yeah.
• 1:17:43
  When I started my career, I worked in a huge, huge, like fortune 1000 company, I worked in
• 1:17:47
  smaller companies of 100 to 200 people, yes.
• 1:17:49
  Right.
• 1:17:50
  How many of the bosses that you had were concerned about your well-being?
• 1:17:55
  Some, but not many.
• 1:17:56
  Yeah.
• 1:17:57
  How many of them showed up as non-judgmental, good listeners who had a lot of compassion?
• 1:18:03
  I would say very few.
• 1:18:05
  I would say very few because I feel like the bosses I had were more traditional bosses.
• 1:18:09
  And they cared about my well-being to a degree as long as it aligned with the business.
• 1:18:13
  Yeah.
• 1:18:14
  So there's like a caveat.
• 1:18:15
  Exactly.
• 1:18:16
  There's like a, you know, you have to, so, but I think that's what most people who are
• 1:18:19
  high performers think.
• 1:18:20
  Like I care about your well-being, but what if your goals or your passions don't align
• 1:18:27
  with what I'm trying to accomplish?
• 1:18:29
  Then you shouldn't work together.
• 1:18:30
  You know, that's, you know, we, you have, all organizations have values, but the point
• 1:18:36
  is, is that each of us is healthier, is happier, so I have very strong research on this.
• 1:18:44
  We are higher in our ability to deal with our feelings.
• 1:18:48
  We are physically healthier, mentally healthier, we actually get better sleep at night.
• 1:18:54
  And we have higher life satisfaction and higher purpose in meaning in our lives.
• 1:19:01
  When we work with people, our bosses who are highly emotionally intelligent.
• 1:19:07
  So then this leads to the question, why do people suppress emotions at work?
• 1:19:11
  Because they've been taught to leave their emotions at the door, which actually leads
• 1:19:14
  to lower performance.
• 1:19:15
  Exactly.
• 1:19:16
  And again, it's not about emotional indulgence.
• 1:19:19
  It's about recognizing that, yes, I have employees who are stressed right now.
• 1:19:22
  Let me give them strategies and support systems to help them alleviate the stress, because
• 1:19:26
  a less stressed employee is going to be a better performer.
• 1:19:29
  And it's not about getting rid of stress.
• 1:19:32
  I actually like to hire people who have a little bit of anxiety.
• 1:19:35
  They get stuff done.
• 1:19:36
  I appreciate that.
• 1:19:37
  That's true.
• 1:19:38
  You know, the person is like, whatever.
• 1:19:39
  I'm not interested.
• 1:19:40
  You know, I like a little anxiety, but it's, it's at a peak.
• 1:19:45
  Once it's chronic, you're done.
• 1:19:48
  The workload, you know, the work, the quality diminishes.
• 1:19:53
  One thing that you speak about when you're trying to like sort of help someone else regulate,
• 1:20:02
  you mentioned the three characteristics.
• 1:20:03
  So non-judgmental, active listening, emptying the passion.
• 1:20:07
  But no one's looking for a fixer or a problem solver.
• 1:20:09
  And I think that's a good reframe because I think that everybody tries, especially people
• 1:20:14
  that are those three things, I think they can incorrectly assume that, well, let me just
• 1:20:18
  go in and tell you what to do.
• 1:20:20
  I figured it out.
• 1:20:21
  I love you.
• 1:20:22
  I care about you.
• 1:20:23
  I want you to be your best self, but I'm going to try and impose my knowledge and like
• 1:20:27
  fix your emotions or whatever.
• 1:20:29
  And that doesn't work.
• 1:20:30
  That's not what people want.
• 1:20:31
  And by the way, like for parents who are listening, it's the worst thing for your kid.
• 1:20:35
  You're not teaching them resilience.
• 1:20:38
  You know, they're never going to build the muscle.
• 1:20:40
  No one can build your biceps for you.
• 1:20:42
  Right?
• 1:20:43
  You can encourage your kid with you being a good role model to exercise and go to the
• 1:20:47
  gym, but you can't build their biceps.
• 1:20:51
  Why does this matter emotional regulation, emotional education?
• 1:20:55
  Why does this matter now more than ever?
• 1:20:58
  It's funny.
• 1:20:59
  I was doing a talk now.
• 1:21:00
  It's called why a regulation?
• 1:21:01
  Why now?
• 1:21:02
  Oh, that works.
• 1:21:03
  I didn't know that.
• 1:21:04
  I know.
• 1:21:05
  I know.
• 1:21:06
  That works.
• 1:21:07
  And I'm glad you brought it up.
• 1:21:08
  And I think it goes back to a little bit of what we talked about earlier.
• 1:21:10
  I think we are on overdrive.
• 1:21:16
  I know, but I don't know about you, but my brain is on overdrive.
• 1:21:20
  I'm just like, I just got out of this conference where everybody was an influencer.
• 1:21:23
  I was like, I have not enough.
• 1:21:26
  And like, how does this person, I like, I know that I know more than they do.
• 1:21:29
  They have 15 million followers.
• 1:21:30
  I don't have any role.
• 1:21:31
  I mean, it was like endless like overdrive of like, and then like, nobody was actually
• 1:21:37
  watching me present.
• 1:21:39
  You know why?
• 1:21:40
  I'm taping my presentation.
• 1:21:43
  It was the weirdest moment.
• 1:21:44
  Like I'm here and like presenting to thousands of people and like, I'm not looking at cameras
• 1:21:49
  of phones.
• 1:21:50
  Yeah.
• 1:21:51
  It was the weirdest experience.
• 1:21:52
  That's because you're on an influencer event.
• 1:21:53
  Yes, yes.
• 1:21:54
  But still, it's weird.
• 1:21:55
  It is weird.
• 1:21:56
  I'm sorry, but my point is that it's and it's like the conversations with people that
• 1:22:01
  I had were all about like next, next, next, next, next, next.
• 1:22:07
  And your brain is in that kind of overdrive, your body and your mind are going to go nuts.
• 1:22:15
  And so I think kids are that way.
• 1:22:17
  We know the average high school or six hours a day on their phones.
• 1:22:21
  That means they're not doing what we're doing right now, which is eye contact and having
• 1:22:24
  conversations.
• 1:22:26
  And my research and others research, it shows that kids prefer texting each other than
• 1:22:30
  even talking to each other.
• 1:22:31
  So now we're more isolated than ever before.
• 1:22:33
  We're lonelyer than ever before.
• 1:22:34
  We're going to AI for relationships.
• 1:22:36
  Yeah.
• 1:22:37
  It's a whole other can of worms.
• 1:22:39
  Yeah.
• 1:22:40
  And by the way, it's all stemming from a lack of real connection from early childhood
• 1:22:45
  on.
• 1:22:47
  Families who balance these technologies, you know, have kids who are healthier, happier,
• 1:22:52
  and, you know, et cetera.
• 1:22:53
  So that's number one.
• 1:22:54
  Is this the overdrive?
• 1:22:55
  Number two is all about like the societal stuff.
• 1:23:00
  You know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, when I was a kid, you know,
• 1:23:07
  I hated school, but I wasn't worried about school shootings.
• 1:23:09
  Do you know that last year in the United States of America, there were 80 school shootings?
• 1:23:13
  I didn't know that.
• 1:23:15
  80.
• 1:23:16
  So that's not like a little number.
• 1:23:17
  So if you're a kid right now, who hears that, you're worrying that your school is going
• 1:23:22
  to be next.
• 1:23:23
  So you live in a fight or flight mode?
• 1:23:25
  Correct.
• 1:23:26
  That's where we're at right now.
• 1:23:29
  And so this is why we need to A, in my opinion, a motion regulation, by the way, if you ask
• 1:23:36
  me for my real big vision, is that CEOs, government leaders, it's requirement to learn this stuff.
• 1:23:45
  Parents, leaders of schools, teachers, you know, and kids themselves, so we have an emotionally
• 1:23:49
  intelligent kind of world.
• 1:23:52
  Who suffers the most when this education isn't part of a curriculum or they don't learn
• 1:23:56
  it young?
• 1:23:57
  It's the kid.
• 1:23:58
  It's the youngest with the least amount of power.
• 1:24:01
  So they're growing up without the education, with this constant overwhelm and a society
• 1:24:06
  that is, it's really just a society that is promoting comparison and anxiety and stress
• 1:24:14
  and expectations.
• 1:24:17
  And now they have this, again, this hypercharged environment they're growing up in.
• 1:24:22
  They have no tools to deal with it.
• 1:24:23
  So the effect of not understanding this in 2025 and beyond is going to be even more pronounced
• 1:24:29
  only to even more mental health issues with adults.
• 1:24:32
  Yeah.
• 1:24:33
  And guess what?
• 1:24:34
  What we want to do is a society and what we're doing is quick fixes, which don't work.
• 1:24:40
  And what we also are doing is, you know, like, I'll give you a speech at a big psychiatry
• 1:24:45
  conference.
• 1:24:46
  Let's phones.
• 1:24:47
  What?
• 1:24:48
  Let's phones.
• 1:24:49
  Well, that's the obvious.
• 1:24:50
  But yes.
• 1:24:51
  But here.
• 1:24:52
  No.
• 1:24:53
  You know, I really give a good talk, I'm just, you know, just saying.
• 1:24:56
  And so these psychiatrists came up to me afterwards and they said, hey, Mark, you know, great talk.
• 1:25:01
  But you know, we've had a meeting about this and we predict that, you know, we need about
• 1:25:06
  10,000 more psychiatrists to support all the mental health problems in our nation.
• 1:25:11
  And I said, dude, like, my job is to put you out of business.
• 1:25:16
  And so we have a society that is actually willing to spend more money and resources on
• 1:25:23
  treating people with mental illness than knowing that the work that I and others do as an
• 1:25:29
  early preventionist is much more cost effective.
• 1:25:33
  And Malita, a healthier existence for children and the adults in our future.
• 1:25:38
  I hope that more people pick up your work and teach in.
• 1:25:43
  And I think it's like, because say that again.
• 1:25:45
  I hope that more people pick up your work and teach it and run with it and learn it.
• 1:25:50
  Because what you're actually describing, again, I'm not as knowledgeable about the mental
• 1:25:55
  health and psychology fields as you are.
• 1:25:57
  But what you're describing as prevention is something that on the, on the other side
• 1:26:01
  with medical issue, like, like physical issues, health and wellness issues, like physical
• 1:26:07
  health and wellness, it's all, I mean, it's like sick care.
• 1:26:10
  It's never healthcare, right?
• 1:26:11
  It's always, it's always after the problem occurs, then you get some drugs to fix it or
• 1:26:17
  you go to a doctor to fix it after you get sick after you get the disease after what after.
• 1:26:22
  So I mean, a lot of what I believe in is prevention is fixing the leading indicator that's
• 1:26:29
  going to lead to the hopefully, you know, better life.
• 1:26:33
  And that's the sleep, the nutrition, the activity, like when you do these things properly,
• 1:26:39
  you're going to have less of all the other ailments.
• 1:26:41
  Correct.
• 1:26:42
  But it's the same, it's the same issue in mental health.
• 1:26:45
  Correct.
• 1:26:46
  You are the, you are the fix that's going to cause a healthier, a mentally healthier individual,
• 1:26:51
  whereas adding 10,000 more psychologists is just fixing poor mental health.
• 1:26:56
  And people can't even afford it, you know, I worked in New York City.
• 1:27:00
  There's a child, a psychiatry institute that charges 900 hours an hour.
• 1:27:05
  Oh my God.
• 1:27:06
  So who's getting the treatment, the privileged kids?
• 1:27:09
  And I just, you know, I get it, but it makes me, there's also no, there's also no, there's
• 1:27:15
  no reason for that.
• 1:27:16
  Like, I know that there's a lot of great therapists that really want the best for their clients,
• 1:27:22
  but the business model also doesn't work well.
• 1:27:24
  Because if everybody's healed, then you start making money.
• 1:27:27
  Correct.
• 1:27:28
  If there are no more diseases, then pharmaceutical companies don't make money anymore.
• 1:27:33
  Yeah.
• 1:27:34
  And this is why we need it.
• 1:27:37
  A whole new way of thinking about prevention, yes, prevention.
• 1:27:41
  And what it means to live a good life and living a good life is the things that we spoke
• 1:27:46
  about.
• 1:27:47
  It's about the biological, but the budget stuff of exercise and nutrition and sleep, but
• 1:27:53
  it's also about, you know, having a healthy mindset.
• 1:27:58
  It's about knowing what you're feeling.
• 1:27:59
  It's about knowing how to breathe properly and meditate.
• 1:28:02
  It's about knowing how to have positive self-talk.
• 1:28:05
  It's about having healthy relationships and eventually saying that this is not just
• 1:28:12
  for my life, but my job in life is to pay it forward.
• 1:28:16
  But after all the research you've done, so you've been researching this for how long,
• 1:28:19
  over 30 years?
• 1:28:20
  About 30 years now.
• 1:28:21
  30 years.
• 1:28:22
  So this has been your whole career.
• 1:28:23
  More or less.
• 1:28:24
  Yeah, I don't know anything else except the Ben Emotions.
• 1:28:27
  What has been the most surprising thing that you've discovered?
• 1:28:29
  Sadly, the resistance to education, to learning about this stuff.
• 1:28:34
  My job is not to learn about feelings.
• 1:28:36
  My job is not to talk about feelings.
• 1:28:40
  It's the resistance to really incorporating this into parenting, into schools, and into
• 1:28:46
  workplaces.
• 1:28:48
  So basically, we have all the tools for everybody to be happier, healthier, live better lives.
• 1:28:54
  Obviously, you still do research, but we have the fundamentals that have been proven
• 1:28:58
  time and time again with tons of data.
• 1:29:00
  100 percent.
• 1:29:01
  If somebody influences right now in their lives and their kids' lives, they will be significantly
• 1:29:05
  happier.
• 1:29:06
  Happier, healthier, and live longer.
• 1:29:08
  So the goal is to reframe the apprehension about education and understand it's not.
• 1:29:18
  The next generation of people who have an emotion education are the people who are leading
• 1:29:21
  our companies in our country.
• 1:29:23
  If people want to learn more about this, where do they go?
• 1:29:27
  So we have your newest book.
• 1:29:29
  So your newest book, dealing with feelings, use your emotions to create the life you want.
• 1:29:35
  That is available now.
• 1:29:36
  So wherever you get your books, Amazon, whatever, I'll put a link in the show.
• 1:29:41
  Where else can people watch your talks, follow you?
• 1:29:44
  My website has a lot of stuff, written a lot of articles for Time Magazine and Wall Street
• 1:29:49
  Journal and other places like that, so they can download and read fun little articles.
• 1:29:57
  And then the app that I co-created with Ben, someone who is the co-founder of Pinterest,
• 1:30:01
  called How We Feel, which is free on Android and iOS.
• 1:30:04
  We have about three and a half million users.
• 1:30:07
  People love it.
• 1:30:08
  And it's a nice tool to help you build emotional awareness.
• 1:30:11
  I think reading and the app together is like a good combo.
• 1:30:15
  I like that.
• 1:30:16
  And you know, you've done a lot of work already.
• 1:30:20
  You have the strategies that work.
• 1:30:22
  What are you interested in now?
• 1:30:23
  They could really impact people in the future.
• 1:30:26
  What is sort of the next?
• 1:30:27
  Yeah.
• 1:30:28
  It's funny you asked that.
• 1:30:30
  It's a trigger.
• 1:30:31
  Why is it a trigger?
• 1:30:33
  Because I think that's the way we think in life is what's next, what's next.
• 1:30:36
  And one of the things that I pride myself on is going deeper and deeper and deeper with
• 1:30:41
  the same thing.
• 1:30:42
  Like I haven't achieved my goals yet.
• 1:30:44
  Every school is not doing this.
• 1:30:46
  Every family is not doing it.
• 1:30:48
  And so my next to be frank is to figure out how to get people to do what we know from
• 1:30:55
  the research works.
• 1:30:56
  Okay.
• 1:30:57
  So if you could tell and pass on sort of one lesson to your younger self, well, however
• 1:31:01
  you want to frame it, something that has been so impactful in your understanding of
• 1:31:06
  emotion.
• 1:31:07
  If you could only pass on that one lesson, what would that lesson be and why the most
• 1:31:10
  important lesson that you'd want to leave your younger self in the audience with?
• 1:31:14
  It goes back to my first book, which is Permission to Feel.
• 1:31:19
  You got to give yourself Permission to Feel.
• 1:31:21
  It's okay to have these feelings.
• 1:31:23
  There's no bad emotion.
• 1:31:26
  And it, hard job as friends, as parents, as lovers is to give everybody we love and
• 1:31:33
  care about Permission to Feel too.