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Killer Thriller: Two Dead Parents, Two Buried Bodies and One Family Secret · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Elisa Donovan.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Hey, everybody. Elisa Donovan here, and this is Killer Thriller.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: In 1988, Richard Cunanan Sr. disappeared from his Florida home.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: His family said he had simply left. But 15 years later,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: a shocking secret came to light. Richard had been killed.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: He was shot dead. placed into a freezer, and then
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: buried underneath the cement floor of the family's garage. Then,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: exactly 15 years after his father disappeared, Richard Ricky Kananen Jr.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: 's mother, Marilyn, was killed too. She was suffocated and
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: buried in the garden in the family backyard. Ricky ultimately
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: admitted responsibility for both deaths. But the story took another
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: stunning turn when Ricky accused his sister, Stacy, of being involved.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Stacey went from cooperating with investigators to facing a murder charge,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: but was ultimately acquitted. Their story became the Lifetime movie
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Monster in the Family, the Stacey Cunanan story. Today, I'm
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: joined by Brendan Taylor, who plays Ricky Cunanan. Brendan, welcome
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: to Killer Thriller. Thank you so much for talking with
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: me today.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm honored to be here.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Um, this, this movie in this, this case there, it's
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: a very complicated story and, um, obviously very, very upsetting. Um,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: and it's so hard to, to wrap your head around
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: the details and the timeline and so many things. So, um,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: you've talked about having the actual court depositions available to
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: you as part of the material surrounding the case. So
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: what did you learn about the real Ricky that most
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: influenced how you played him?
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: The kind of most sort of obvious thing is how
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: kind of calm and normal he seems. The trap is
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: to play, you know, an evil person who's trying to
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: be evil. No, no, they're always, they think what they're
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: doing in their head is the right thing. The justification
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: he made in his head of doing it as if
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: it's a normal thing. And if you're not with me,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: you're against me. Like, how can you not see? what
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I'm doing is right.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Which kind of led to this sort of betrayal in
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: the end, I think. And also just wanting to get
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: out of it.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: And I also was struck by, I felt like, particularly
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: in watching the movie, how obviously you talk about hurt
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: people hurt people, and when you're damaged, the abuse cycle continues, etc. Oftentimes.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: But I also thought it was so interesting that he,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: your character sort of, and I didn't read anything about
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: this in the research I did about the real case.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: So I'm curious if this is real, but it's like
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: he was reliving that life of saving her, right? He
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: saved the sisters many times, which is documented in the
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: real case as well from when the father set the
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: house on fire or protected them from his abuse and
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: things like that. And it's almost like, Then in his
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: grown up life, he continued like that was how he
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: knew how to exist. So it's like he pretended almost
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: like he created scenarios in which he had to save
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: the sister, like sort of those phone calls that he
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: made scaring her so that then he could sort of
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: be the savior again. Was that something that you thought about?
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I was really struck by that.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. When you realize, like, obviously it was him.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Making the calls when he's obviously he's trying to make
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: it because the father had disappeared he just went away
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: at one point and the fact you know sort of
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: coming up with this that he's somehow come back and
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: like choosing to terrorize his adult children um yeah but
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: like doing that to sort of yeah I mean keep
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: your yeah keeping her close with that level of of
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: control but yeah then something in there to to flip
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: and be like I'll come in I'm the one who
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: can save you from those. And just knowing that level
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: of manipulation, like how she went along with it for
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: so long, just because he was the original savior. And
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: it's like, how could he not be doing and saying
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: the right thing and embedding her deeper and deeper?
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: And then, of course, she looks very guilty on the
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: outside by the end of it.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like the film really does a great
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: job of of showing the fear that Stacy and many
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: victims often continue to live with long after the literal
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: abuse has stopped you know her nightmares the imaginings and
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: all that that sort of thing um it does a
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: really good job of that uh and the kind of
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: silence that goes with it how the the siblings sort
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: of can't talk to each other about really anything that's
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: going on it's this It's a really, can you talk
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: about that sort of on set, the dynamics of, I
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: know you've talked, spoken really highly of Alicia and you
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: guys have such a great, you just have such a
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: great chemistry between you. But kind of that thing of,
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: was there a talk of figuring out how to do that?
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Because it's so true in families when we don't want
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: to talk about difficult things. And these are extremely difficult.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: But how do you actually... get that across on screen.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Cause I thought it was very strong in this movie.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of it has to do with
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: the writing itself was, was really great at sort of
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: keeping all of their sort of dynamics and how they
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: talk to her pretty consistent. Like Ricky at one point, like,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: like I, when I'm talking to her in the garage,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: it was like really like snapping at her to kind
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: of like whatever kind of is needed at the time
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: to kind of get her to fall in line. As
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: soon as she starts to suspect stuff and just, you know,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: having a little, bit of that come out and, you know,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: the strain, like the tension is there, but when the
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: tension breaks in some way, then it's like, well, we
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: went too far.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Like, let's bring it back down. You know, like, I
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: guess I shouldn't have, I shouldn't have asked.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: No, you're right. I shouldn't have, you know, when, and
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: he knows how to bring that back.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: Every once in a while to kind of put her
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: in line. Right.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: So the, the children all described growing up in a
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: terribly abusive environment, home and Ricky later admitted responsibility, obviously
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: for both of his parents' deaths. Um, how did you
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: find the line between understanding the trauma that Ricky experienced
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: and not excusing what he ultimately did?
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: You can't excuse it.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, he, there's that thing of him being that
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: much older than his children or his sisters rather in
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: real life, where he just kind of had to fill
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: in as an adult and, and, and, protect them. Like
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: it's simultaneous that his mother was abused and couldn't do anything,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: but at the same time as a role, as a parent, she,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: she was supposed to, and how that responsibility, but how
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: does she, because he's intimidating and, and you know what
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I mean? It's that same thing of like, she's supposed
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: to at the same time she couldn't because she was
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: also being abused.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: I feel like it really comes out that that point is,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: very clear and poignant when Stacey is being interrogated and
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: the investigator says something like, if I was accused of
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: a crime I didn't commit, I'd be like pounding my
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: fists on the table and yelling. And she said, well,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: that's like very simply, well, that's because you didn't grow
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: up in an environment where you would be killed for that.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: And it's like, I think that just says everything, you know? Yeah.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, who knows how much that fed into, like
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: once she was, uh, uh, you know, accused of, of this,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: like how much of her ability to, to express that
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: she was innocent.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Like, well, you look kind of guilty because you're not
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: showing anything or doing anything. It's like, but she's not
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: able to because she's so traumatized.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: And that for her, perhaps not saying something is the
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: safer is the way to be safer.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah i mean even going back to when richard senior
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: just disappeared one day and they didn't call the cops
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: as you should they he just it's better that he's gone.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: It's like this is a relief for all of.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Us yeah it's a relief but at the same time
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: i don't like yeah they didn't you know you're supposed
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: to call.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: Someone when someone goes missing but it's like in this
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: case it's like You don't say anything.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: You know, he fully disappeared off the face of the
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: planet and like, thank God he did. So, you know, it's,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: that's the thing of like, well, you know, we're supposed
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: to probably report, like, it's just, you.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: Know, we'll just, we'll just block it out and he's gone. And,
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: you know, we'll just pretend it's gone and move on.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe this is a gift from the heavens that this
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: has just been removed from us. Ricky admitted responsibility for
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: both deaths and he later accused Stacy of participating. What
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: did you make of that, the complicated relationship between the
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: brother and sister and how dramatically it changed? Yeah.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, I had a, a really cool moment shooting
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: with Alicia.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: One of the sort of moments that changed in the.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: Film is when we're driving home from the police station.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Yes. I kind of finally found a moment for me
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: when like, you know, saying that they're going to give,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: like mom's going.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: To give away grandpa's money. So they had, some money.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: And like, in my mind is Ricky. It's like, we're
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: owed that money at the very least for what we
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: went through. And then she's just without hesitation. It was like, Oh,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: it's not ours. It's not ours to have.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: It's hers to give, to do whatever she wants. She
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: was going to give it away.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: And that like, I found a moment kind of naturally in,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: it wasn't as clear before in one moment take when
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: we did it, like the betrayal of that statement.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Right. Like how could you not.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Her, her betrayal of him.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: Right. Yeah. Like how could you, yeah.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Sister, like how could you, like they, at the very
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: least they owe us that. And you just think she's
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: going to give it away.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: Right. What's, what's wrong.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Like, how could you, and she was so like firm
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: with that. It's like, well, you know, I was trying
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: to do this for all of us. And now, you know, well,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: you're going down.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: It's really incredible how it's just reveals how differently any
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: individual who grows up in the same household might respond
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: to things.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: And surely they had different and unique experiences, but still,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: you know, she somehow maintained this kind of heart about her.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: And also in that scene in particular that you're talking about,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: it also exemplifies what I was trying to get to
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: earlier about that. Like these are unspeakable moments, right? They're
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: just at the police station where your character is, they're
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: both interrogated and she realizes, Oh, he's doing something nefarious and,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: and in implicating me and might've killed, like what is
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: going on? And yet, she just is driving the car and,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: and she's driving him home, you know? And it's like that,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: that tension of what are we, you know, talk about,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: it's hard to talk about difficult things. Like it's just,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: but it's done so well in this movie, many moments
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah. That it's true.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, any other person would be like, no, no,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: get out of my car or whatever. And he just
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: kind of insists and like, okay. And you know, it
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: goes along with it. Like, because what you don't know
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: any different, you don't, know how to respond any different.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: And also for Ricky, it's like when he finally did
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: kill his mom and I'm just, obviously not, this is
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: maybe the perspective he had. It's like mom, even though
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: he got along with her, I guess it's like, he's
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: also experienced that trauma much more really as a, as
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: an older child and everything like that and has much
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: more of a grudge against her and that.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: And then, and then to decide.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: That like mom is more useful, dead because the money
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: is more valuable than mom.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, like I don't, I need a chance.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: That's the best chance for.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Me to like move on with my life and to
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: them just to be gone and convert it into dollars
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: so that I can at least have some shot.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: And she and Stacy has a partner. And so I
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: also think this is so interesting, you know, psychologically that she,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: found a partner and someone that she could trust and
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: be intimate with and share her life. And that helps
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: us all to heal.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: So she has this different barometer. Oh, life can be
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: this way. And he didn't seem to have that. Yeah.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: I think it's just too far gone. I mean, it
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: was even, I think I, I've, Uh, yeah, I read,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: you know, in previous stuff before that, that sort of
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: trial footage, like he, because he was older, he was
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: experiencing that trauma for.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Years before the sisters were born. He was the focus
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: because he's an only child.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: There was one thing that just came to mind again,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: that like his father would do things like go into
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: his room at night with a shotgun and fire it
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: next to his sleeping child's head.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: Just because. to like scare him. And he woke up
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: with it. You know what I mean?
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: And like, and I think in part of that led
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: to partial hearing damage, which is actually, you can see
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: in the footage where he would ask people to repeat.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Things a lot. Cause one, yes.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So like, like that's the kind of level that
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: he was going through all of that.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: And then his sisters came along.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, so it's that much more embedded in.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: That is an unequivocally important, vital part of the whole story.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: I think that's, that's the thing that maybe is missed
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: or just not, it's just like, you know, when you
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: think of him or it's, if he was nine and
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: they were like four or five, whatever, it's like you
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: have that gap where it's just him, his mom and
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: his abusive father for just growing up with all that.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: And even there's even stories that I talk about being
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: sent up, the ladder to like, he liked to play
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: pranks on the kids by putting like Santa, you know,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: crashed and.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: There's blood everywhere. So he got a friend that had like,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: you know, game blood or whatever.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: And I would be tasked with doing, he'd be holding
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: a gun at me while I'd be like putting blood
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: on the roof.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: It was like that kind of, it's just unfathomable.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. So it's like, I always say, you know,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: these things are not excuses. They're explanations for, for how
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: we get there. You know, it's, these things don't come
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: out of a vacuum 99% of the time. Um, so
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Stacy was ultimately acquitted of her mother's murder and Ricky
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: changed his story about her. I mean, multiple times. Um,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: what did you make of that? And did you come
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: away believing anything that he said about her?
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, you know, the film is, is, is, uh,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: based on Stacy's perspective and everything. And, um, but it's, yeah, it's,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: it definitely plants a seed of doubt of like how
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: much his sister was involved, how much Stacy was involved
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: in intertwined with the finances and things like that. And,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: you know, there's that part of it, but like in
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: terms of being involved in like the actual murder, it's,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: it gets.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: That there's not a lot of evidence to, to show that.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: But then I, you know, my character makes a good
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: point at one point, like, uh, just the very fact
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: that the mom is buried in her backyard.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: Like how would someone not know that on paper? Right.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Even though he did it kind of, if he did
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: it in secret or whatever, but it's like, how would
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: you not know that a body was recently buried in
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: your yard?
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: That is a decent question. That is a decent question.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: But it's also, you know, when one is used to
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: ignoring or shutting out things, I suppose I could get there.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: I could believe that maybe.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. It's like you see something or, you know,
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: see a new patch or whatever.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: What's going on over there? And then don't worry about it.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Just forget it.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: And saying don't worry about it. Oh, okay. I won't
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: worry about it. Right.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: And then, as usual, that's the way of thinking. You
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: just kind of do what you're told.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: Right. And then even though... you may have some responsibility
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: to go low key.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Right. Right.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: Nope.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Okay. I mean, I'd like to do that with a
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: lot of things in my life. Oh, don't worry about it. Okay.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I won't worry about it.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And then it goes away.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's a, that's, that's a tricky part for sure.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Did you, Stacey has said that the abuse that her
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: family experienced was far worse than what the viewers, what
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: we see in this movie. And I always think, you know,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: when movies based on things like this, which obviously is
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: what I'm talking about all the time, it's such a
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: delicate balance of, but a very clear one, I feel,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: of not exploiting people's pain and not, you know, making
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: some sort of, um, yeah, just not exploiting people's pain.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: And I feel like this movie really does it does
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: that so well. It's really telling the story of these people.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: And how much did you know about the family's history
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: of abuse when you were building Ricky as a character?
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I, I looked into as much as
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I could and I agree. The movie does a really
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: good job and Alicia does a, a great job and
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: it's such a responsibility to tell that, you know, story
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: of abuse.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: Cause it's, it is just so sadly common.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: And, and I think, but another thing that I touch
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: on briefly at one point, but not only was Ricky
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: alive longer, but there's the physical abuse and everything else,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: but he was also sexually abused. And, you know, it's,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: there's a, stigma thing still of you know men being
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: abused as well you know and that it's you know
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: maybe more common with women is it but it's I
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: feel like it was like a bit of a gray
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: area around like the, how common it is with men
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: and boys.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: The, the shame. I mean, there's shame for both genders regardless,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: but it's a different sort, I think for men and
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: it's less, even less talked about. And, um, more difficult
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: to talk about and then that rage right it certainly
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: explains how he could have the rage to actually suffixiate
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: both of them do we you know that's a it's
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: yeah it's understandable.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah it is and also i'm recalling that like he
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: after it's like he'd written a lot of like novels
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: or stories. I don't know if you knew this about
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: like after the fact that were like him as a
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: hero or a hero character saving people.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: He really had this like deep in him of like, yeah.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Like writing these sort of stories of superhero stories or
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: something along the line of like, Oh wow.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: Coming to save people and stuff like that.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: So like that lived in him in some way because
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: he did, you know, in the movie it shows that he,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I think has more than once saved his sisters from
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: a burning home. Something, regardless of all of the abuse
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: and everything, he still, as a child, knew he had
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: to do whatever he did to save his sisters who
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: were going through the same thing. And that's one of
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: the more tragic.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Things, too.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: There there's something particularly heartbreaking about that, about him writing
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: those stories. I mean, you guys did that. Part of
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: that is covered where Stacy discovers a book that he
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: was writing in the movie. You guys do cover that
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: a little bit, right?
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I think it was maybe a bit too distracting to
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: keep in the film, maybe right.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Into too much, but, and it is Stacy's story after all.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: But yeah, that part is interesting.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Stacey and Susan, her partner, have discussed ways the dramatization
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: in the film differed from their real lives. They said
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: their homes were not as fancy as they are in
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: the movie. That Stacey never wore heels and makeup and
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: that kind of thing. But I do think, to Alicia's credit,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: she does not look like a glamour queen or something
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: in this movie. She's very understated.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they stuck a really good balance.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do too. Were there other details that you
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: learned that were changed or embellished for the film?
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: Well, I believe they changed the name of the detective.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: Just because, yeah, because I'm not sure.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: That might have been sort of altered a bit because,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, the... it's kind of embarrassing for the detective because.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: He, yes.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: The detective who really laid into her and had misinformation.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: And yeah, he was a rookie cock that like, that was, uh,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: just dead set on convicting Stacy, like the whole time
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: just knew that she did something. And then it breaks,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: the evidence breaks down where he just like did very
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: like sloppy detective work. And like prove that she couldn't
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: have been, the mom couldn't have been two places at
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: once or something.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Did you and Alicia, I know you guys, you said you've,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: you've spoken very highly of her and you two are
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: really great in this together. And that we said, as
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: you said, this was a very collaborative experience with her.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Was there a particular scene where the two of you
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: discovered something about Ricky and Stacy's relationship that wasn't obvious
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: on the page?
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: There's a scene where I kind of grab her arm
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: in that. We sort of talked about how, how, violent
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: I would actually be in that scene when I grabbed
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: her or, or how hard I would persist or think
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: like they was, uh, we kind of had to decide
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: on our own sort of that, those sort of limitations
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: with us and how touchy feeling we were to like, there's.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: You know, where we're hugging and when I first see
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: her in the first, right. Yeah. And there's, and the
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: playfulness as we're sitting in the backyard, it's.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: A testament to the two of you that, that, you
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: feel very much the complication of this relationship. It's a
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: very layered situation. And that is not easy to do.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: You've talked about hoping that the film brings attention to
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: the effects of childhood abuse. And Stacey herself went on
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: to speak publicly about her experiences and advocate for others.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: And she wrote a book. What do you hope people
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: ultimately take away from her story?
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that it is, once again, that it
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: is more common than we think. That, you know, I
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: didn't personally go through anything like that, but that hopefully
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: showing how common it is and how complicated it can
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: be And that you can still come through it.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: And then there is support on the other side, you know, um,
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: that there are people like, if you think you, no
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: one can understand you.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: And then this goes for a lot of different things,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: but when you have someone like Stacey, who became an
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: advocate for abuse victims, and it's like, you think no
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: one knows she knows.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Ricky remains in prison and is currently listed for release,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: I believe, in 2032. If you had the opportunity to
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: ask him one question, what would it be?
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: I wonder, did you ever ask for help? Did it
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: occur to you to reach out to anyone about this?
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: And what was that process like?
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: That's such a good question because I think we all assume, well,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: in any situation, well, yes, of course they asked for
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: help and then they didn't get it or whatever. And
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: in some cases that is true, but I think that's
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: a great question in this case because it might not
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: even have been an idea that was possible.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Did you ask for help or did you think to
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: ask for help would be another way to put it
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: too because, yeah, the whole thing of, not both men
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: and women, but men in particular of like expressing their
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: feelings and talking to like this, uh, the really idea
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: of mental health being a thing.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: It's really like a thing in the past, like 20 years. Right. Right.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: It's quite new. It's very, it's still pretty fresh.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: So anything that happened prior to that, like people just
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: never dealt with. I mean, you think of like war
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: veterans and stuff like that, like they just do not
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: say anything.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Right. It's all trapped inside.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: And the few that have somehow been able to, you know,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: talk about it. But it's like the classic trope of like,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: you know, don't talk to grandpa about the war kind
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: of thing.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: Right. Right. Yeah.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: It'll upset him.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: Don't. Yeah. Yeah.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: We make light of it or whatever. But it's like,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: you know, so especially in this case of like. a
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: father repeatedly sexually abusing, physically abusing someone. There's no, that
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: is the father. You think you'd go to a father figure.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Who else does he have? Right.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Right. Do you go to the police?
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Um, I, um, you're just going to get beaten more
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: or whatever abuse like that kind of trap of abuse.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: So that's a great question. It's a great, great question. Well, Brendan,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: this has been so terrific to talk with you. Thank
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: you so much. The movie is Monster in the Family.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: The Stacey Cunanan story is streaming online. Thank you so much.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: This has been really nice to talk with you.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Thank you. You too. It was a great conversation.