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How Jessica Diehl Went From Assistant To Vanity Fair Fashion Director · Clyde Confidential

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Very self aware.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got it because we all like to sort
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: of put on the rose colored glasses of like back
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: of my time in Vogue, I was a dick. What
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: can I say?
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: Hi, guys, welcome back to another episode of Quide Confidential.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: I have a very special guest to introduce you today,
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: who I actually haven't seen in years, so this is
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: going to be a very fun catch up. But I
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: have the wonderful Jessica Deal. She is a brand consultant
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: and a creative director whom I've worked very closely with
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: over the years, and we haven't seen each other since
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: PC pre COVID, right.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I think we were like six years ago security at
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Mexico City Airport being all masked up and we're like,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: oh god, what's that?
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: I think? No, that was literally the weekend the last
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: trip that I saw people.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was not that. Puebla.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what a time, what a time, what a town.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: I love that time.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't been back. You've been back.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: I've been back to Mexico City and felt really sort
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: of in the know that I knew about Puebla. Yeah
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: it's quite a food scene, and that there's a cool
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: hotel that we stay that, so all the locals in
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Mexico City thought I was like, really up on my
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Mexican stuff.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I would say, so, yeah, that was it.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: I was supposed to go to a wedding in Mexico
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: City actually, and had to cancel for some other stuff.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: But I have not been back, and I'm dying to go. Actually,
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: and I loved that trip.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: It's so fantastic and even just now going back it
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: was for a quick trip. Mexico City is just so phenomenal. Yes,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: for food shopping, but just people. The people are just
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: so warm and lovely and fun and everybody's everybody's great. Yeah,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: it's totally consistent in that way.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Remember we were there for a door shoot, and I
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: remember when we before we arrived, we were trying to
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: get my old boss a room upgrade. And at the
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: time I was thinking to myself, Okay, I've never heard
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: of Puebla. Why, like, who else could be occupying the
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: suite that we want?
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: I felt like it was such a random time of
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: year we were.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: We were very confused why that room wasn't available, And
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: then when the three of us went up to the
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: roof for dinner, we heard someone yell Jen and it
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: was just in Thurrow with Kuma the dog the dog,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: and we were like, how is it possible that someone
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: we know is also at this hotel.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I just remember all of us bursting out in laughter.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: And it was that night ended up being very fun
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: because we all had dinner on the roof.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: But that was the last time we hung.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that really was. But was that really was
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: a fun night? Actually? Yes, that was really great.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Well anyways, what have you been up to for the
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: last six years?
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Good question. I mean, as you know, I've worked a
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: lot over the years, or mostly majority I worked for
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: fashion publications or style publications. If Voga's a fashion publication,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: I consider Vannie Ferris's style publication. So I was there
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: for a really long time. And then since then I've
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: started working or continued because I always did it, continued
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: working with different brands at some point. They always shift
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: when they get tired of you. But the combination of
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: special projects with their specific photographers, like a project with
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Annie Liebovitz, who I work with a lot. A lot
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: of stuff with Door over the over the last ten
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: years really and now a lot with the rebranding of
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Donna Karen, which ironically is most people under thirty don't
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: know this not owned by Donna Karen, but owned by
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: a conglomerate, a business called G three, and it's now
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: a very exciting fashion brand. So it's been very, very
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: interesting to work through the spectrum of luxury, back across
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: to accessibility, back to luxury. So it's a constant schizophrenic endeavor.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Really, I mean, you've been responsible for some of the
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: biggest campaigns across fashion and entertainment, and you've been doing
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: it for so many years. How did you find yourself here?
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Because at the time that I moved to New York
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: to be an actress, that lasted away eleven seconds, and
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: then I realized I have no talent.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: That's true, you have a lot of talent.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: It's definitely not in that field. And so when I
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: moved here, that was my sort of reason for coming
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: to New York. And in the back of my mind
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: the one thing growing up being a staunch nineties person,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: no Carolyn Besseid reducts needed, but actually.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: That old.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Magazines were the end all be all of it. So
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: instead of that, I decided I really should be an
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: editor in chief of a magazine, which I wasn't ever
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: creative directors as far as it took me. But that's
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: how that's pretty good. That's how I got into it.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: And there's in magazines at the time, there were two
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: routes to go. You could either come from the sort
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: of visual creative aspect or the writing. And I think
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I was just too lazy to write and wanted to travel,
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: so fashion styling was it for me. And so then
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: I started as an intern. Wow, that's why I'm a
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: firm believer.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: In internships one percent. How did you even know where
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: to go for an internship and where did you start
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: start out?
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: I didn't really know because this is before obviously, even
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: before emails, right, So every resume that had nothing on it.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what I put on my resume.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I think all my sort of college school work things
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: like that would go out of Facts and Male and
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: I would send it to the human resources department of
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: hers the human resources department of has shed something Conde nasked,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: never hear anything back. And at the same time, I
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: was working as a bartender at a very cool place
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: in the East Village and it was fashion week and
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: it was a very it was sort of nineties lounge culture.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: There's sort of what was around spybar Wax. This is
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: for all your old listeners who will remember those places.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: And I worked at ten Street Lounge and they had
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: some fashion week stuff and this very very glamorous young
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: woman came in and took out her fashion week calendar
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: and I thought, oh, well, she must work in fashion.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to ask her for a job, and
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: so I did, and so I just said, oh, so
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: what do you do? And then she told me she
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: was extremely confused that I would just strike up a
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: conversation with her when I should just her her glass
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: of merlou But then somehow we did get talking and
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: it turned out she was the fashion market assistant at
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Mary Claire Magazine. Knowing what I know now, you know
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: she was the lowest rung on a very long totem pole.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: But the attitude and the energy was very Yeah. She
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: was clearly very pleased with what she was doing in life,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: and to her credit, said Okay, come by tomorrow morning
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: and I'll see if I can get you in to
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: the internship program. And there was no program. It was
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: just do you want to come and work here for free?
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: And so I did, so I came by the next morning,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: and then I interned at Mary Claire for Hurst I
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: think for seven eight months. Wow, And that was you know,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: That's how I then met Carlene Surf, who was a
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: very very well regarded, very well known stylist who used
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: to be the co creat of director at Vogue under
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Anna and alongside Grace Coddington. And so I ended up
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: eventually working for her as her assistant, which that was
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: my actual training. More so that more so than the interning.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: The interning just was really about the grueling hours.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that leads you up for your systems job.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: I would never have gotten that job without it.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: It is so crazy to think about how that one
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: interaction sort of set you up for your entire career.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: I think more people should actually do that, and I
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: think more people should start off working in bars, because
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: that probably taught you how to deal with all the
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: tough personalities that you were about to deal with in fashion.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I'm a firm believer that any kind of any kind
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: of hospitality work is the best training ground for really
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: anything that you do, because if you think about unless
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: you're running your own company, and even then I can
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: actually make my point against myself. Even then, you're always
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: in service of something. You're either in service of shareholders,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: you're in service of clients, you're in service of your boss,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: you're in service. Basically, work is being in service. Even
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: if you work for yourself, you're in service of your
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: p and L. You're always in service. So I think
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: learning the fundamentals of how to make people feel valued,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: make people feel looked after. I think they're just all
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: useful things to know, as well as being efficient with time.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Nobody likes waiting apparently for their glass of merlow that long. Yeah,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: so no, I highly recommend to anyone.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Well said, I completely agree.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: I worked at Red Mango in Manhasset when I was
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: in high school, and that.
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  Speaker 2: Teaches you so much.
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  Speaker 1: My friends would come in and make fun of me,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: and I was like, you know what, guys, there's a
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: method behind the madness. I also need money, but definitely
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: it did teach me a lot.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: So we're king in fashion, you see so much worse,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: so much.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I started off in fashion too, but it was very
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: short lived.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: I was at Ralph Lauren for just under two years,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: and I just I loved it, but I knew that
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: it wasn't probably for me long term, and I just
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: thought that entertainment was.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Were you in PR?
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: I was in PR, so I was in I was
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: a freelancer on the celebrity styling team, and then I
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: was an executive assistant, and I just I knew corporate
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: wasn't really for me. But I made a lot of
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: connections there who are still mentors to me today. I'm
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: very very close with three of my old bosses that
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: were on the PR team. Those were relationships I cultivated
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: when I was twenty three years old that I'm ten
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: years later and I still talk to them. I'm curious
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: how and all the people you worked with in fashion,
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: how they became your mentors and what that was like
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: because you worked with a lot of crazy names.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: I did, and they were all I would never have
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: until recently, actually, until we started talking about this, I'd
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: never really considered mentorship because I've always found it something
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: that feels transactional as a question I've had, you know,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: some people come to me and ask me kind of
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: early days, like, oh, will you mentor me? And I
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: technically don't know what that looks like. I think mentorship
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: is about, you know, being as direct and as productive
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: in feedback without being a jerk and really entrusting someone
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: with more than they think they can do, And that
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I think is an organic situation that happens, and that
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: is also predicated by someone actually genuinely being curious, and
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: curiosity and transaction, I think are totally different things. And
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: the transactionary nature of someone coming to you and saying
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: will you be my mentor feels to me And that
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: could be wrong, but to me personally, it just feels transactionary.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: I mean I never went to Grace Coddington or to
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Anna Winter and said can you be my mentor? Right?
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: But what.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Collectively the people I worked for and the relationships I
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: forged with many of them, what they did for me
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: in teaching me and sometimes not teaching me, that de
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: facto makes them people I consider mentors. But it was
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: never a formal sort of acknowledgement of your mynd mentor right.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: So how does that happen organically in fashion when you
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: are working alongside an Anna or a Grace or some
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: of these bigger names and you're just coming into their orbit.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: How does someone or just in general go about having
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: an organic relationship in the workplace or picking someone with
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: the idea that, Okay, that person might be able to
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: become my mentor one day, instead of just flat out asking.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I think the idea is, whoever that person is for
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: you has to represent something that you see as valuable
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: on your career trajectory or I can't say journey with
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: a straight face, but whatever that you see is of
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: value in how you want to inhabit your future self.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: So you know, with Grace it was actually quite easy
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: because I was her assistant, and the way we were
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: sort of set up, we would sit like this every day,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: day in and day out, So it wasn't so much
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: her actively teaching me anything. It was observing everything that
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: she was doing while I was getting on with my
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: menial assistant stuff of writing the emails, doing the budgets,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: doing the expenses, all the boring kind of stuff that
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: makes you want to like, not do the job. The
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: real job was sort of osmosis, just absorbing everything that happens,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: watching her deal with less than ideal situations, watching her
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: deal with knows when she really wanted a yes, watching
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: her deal with me getting a no when what she
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: wanted from me was a yes. They're all they were
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: all things that are partially innate in someone, and then
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: on the other hand, a lot of them are sort
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: of learned behaviors, and I think that then you have
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: to separate the mentor from the culture, and you can
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: have an extremely wonderful mentor type relationship with a person
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: even while operating in a culture that actually isn't that.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: So it's all very I think it's just personal and
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: being extremely I think, extremely prepared, extremely curious in how
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: to do things better, how to do things differently. I
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: think having having having an opinion, knowing when to keep
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: it to yourself. That was never my strong suit. Unfortunately
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: it's on my face and so you know, I have
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: to say, I don't think I think I was an
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: excellent assistant because I would have I probably would have
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: like run over someone with a car to get Grace
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: what she wanted. So in that way, excellent assistant, but
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: actually interpersonally not I was not easy to work with.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, Grace still makes fun of you know, I'm
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: always quite terrified of you, which sounds funny now when
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: an eighty five year old says that, but it's actually
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: not because in hindsight, it's what I thought. I needed
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: to do to get her what she wanted right, but
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: she never asked me for that. That was my interpretation
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: of how to get from A to B in the
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: most efficient, least friction for her possible, And in hindsight,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I would do a lot of it differently. What I
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: wouldn't do differently, The directness would forever stay the same,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: but I think I would have possibly a little bit
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: more patience with other people who also had bosses, and
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I didn't really. I just sort of felt like, what
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: game are we playing? Like it's race? She wants it,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: you're saying no, I'm telling you it's going to be
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: a yes. Can we just cut to it? There's a
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: better way to do that in hindsight, But that is
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: how I approached my mentorship that I received, I think
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: accidentally from her. And she's a very good example because
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: she takes the assistant relationship very seriously. Her dinners and
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: friends are all ex assistance, all of them, and they
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: sort of run the gamut from in their sixties to
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: in their late twenties and thirties. So she's an anomaly.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: I don't think you find that much generosity in any industry,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: So she's an anomaly. Other people I think accidentally become
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: your mentors just by going about their professional style, and
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: you sort of look at that and think, what can
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: I learn from that? Do I want to ape that?
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: What do I think is not good about it? What
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: would I never do? All of those things? So I
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: think it's observation and curiosity and then preparedness. I think
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: you just always have to be prepared for anything.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: I think that's exactly it.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: If you go for all the younger listeners, If you
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: go into your first job out of school in fashion
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: and entertainment, in any industry, and you go into it
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: with no ego and you just want to work and
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: you just want to observe and listen and learn someone,
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: the mentorship will organically happen and you will also just
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: become I just think it'll help set you up for
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: the next stage of your life. If you aren't too
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: focused on two years from now, three years from now,
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: and you are okay doing the menial task behind the desk,
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: you really don't realize how much absorption you're gonna get
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: from just sitting like this with a Grace Cottington or
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: with a Jessica Jessica deal.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: It's that side of the assistant job is what matters.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: That is what you want and when you're in that
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: observation seat, that is really where the knowledge comes from.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: So that's why I'm.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Here to encourage people to be assistants, because people don't
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: understand what you just said right, There is years of
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: not like what you have from that experience is so invaluable.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: I think there's a misconception also now that the end
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: is the goal. I mean, I'm a very results orient
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: but I luckily didn't have to deal with people that
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: were self proclaimed experts right in fields like it didn't exist.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: You didn't have all these people, you know, having a
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: public position of expertise in fields that they didn't. Really,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: it's not that they didn't earn their place. I think
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: some of the some of the influence I follow and
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: really value their take. I think had I known about
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: that when I started out, I would have been far
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: too eager to do all of that for myself. Forget
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: learning from anyone else, Like I can just go and
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: do it, and I'm smart and I can figure it out,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: and I think there's a value to that. But I
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: think on the way to where we are, what has
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: sort of gotten a little bit lost. Is it's actually
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: really good to just sit and absorb without having to
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: have an opinion, without actually the luxury of not having
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: to have an opinion or make a decision, and observing
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: other people's processes around that, because I think it does inform.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: It does inform, especially in creative industries, you have to
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: build your eye. Of course, people are born creative. Some
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: people are not creative. But I think ultimately anyone who's
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: looking to solve for something is creative. There's no question
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: about it. And I think the assistant experience sort of
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: lets you separate that sort of dream life of creativity like, oh,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: wouldn't it be amazing if right like that, that sort
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: of childlike oh if only we could have assisting in
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: whatever industry sort of allows you to learn the structure
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: that underpins everything to then make those things happen. Right.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I can sit here all day and say, wouldn't be
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: amazing if on your next podcast you like had like
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: an elephant walk by, and that would be so great.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: But guess what, after working for Grace for so many years,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I can make that happen, Like I know how.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: To yep, And you have a guy for everything, Yeah.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: And so sure, could I have skipped all of that
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: and had the idea about the elephant, Yes? And could
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: I have possibly made it work without that experience, yes,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: But I'm one hundred percent sure that it would have
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: been more expensive, less efficient, and a little bit sloppier.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: And I think I can't say enough good things about
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: learning a craft and doing all the stuff that you
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: kind of think is annoying.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you just you move quicker.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: You problem solved throughout every aspect of your life. And
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: I think that now that you're not an assistant, obviously
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: and I'm not, nessisant obviously the way I still think
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: that way. My brain does not turn My assistant brain
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: never turns off. Whether that's planning my friend's birthday party
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: in two days she's stressing out, I'm thinking to myself, what.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Do you stress about? I can do this with my
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: eyes closed.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Or I was talking to another mom friend about she's
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: planning her daughter's fourth birthday party and she has all
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: the same contacts from when she was an assistant, and
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: she just knows.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: You just know.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: And I think that no such thing as no thing
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: also really carries over because if someone tells me that
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: something's not going to happen, very similar to you with grace,
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: I think, no, no, you're wrong, that will happen, and this
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: is how you do it. Yeah, right, The mentality just
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: it's I'm so grateful for having a brain that now
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: thinks that way constantly.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. Look, in many ways, the idea of
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: problem solving seems so mundane, right, because everybody deals with
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: problems every day and we all think we solve them
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: really well. But that when you put yourself in a
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: position that you're solving for someone else, you don't. You know,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: it's like going to the gym with a trainer. I
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: can do a plank for three minutes, Sure am I
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: gonna stop after a minute and a half if my
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: trainer's not around, absolutely too. And it's sort of that
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: like it's you do realize that solving producing creating. When
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: it's for someone else that you deeply respect, and sometimes
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: even that you don't respect, but you want to do
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: a good job and you respect yourself, you go much
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: further than you would just for yourself, which is again
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: why I want to commend all the creators that do
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: things just on their own sort of steam. That's unbelievably impressive.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: I certainly needed, you know, I needed that backbone of
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: actually feeling okay, well, if I don't get this for Grace,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: I'll be in trouble and that will feel worse than
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: getting it in a very hardcore way, you know. So
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: that was that was sort of mine decision process there.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think there's nothing better than observing and
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: learning and sometimes realizing that there are people around that
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: will forget more than you'll ever learn. And Grace is
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: one of those people.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: You know, she is, I mean, what like, I couldn't
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: imagine a better person to be working for during that time.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: She is incredible. Yeah, she is incredible. She's and she's
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: you know, hilarious. And part of the reason that I
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: ended up at Vanity Fair is actually back to mentorship
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: being entirely accidental. Grace was working on her very first
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: book called Grace Thirty Years of Fashion, and again to
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: the point of interusting people with something that they don't
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: know how to do, she put me in charge of
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: all the photography in the book, and it's a photography book,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: so it was a learning process. I didn't know how
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: to get photographs and whatever negatives out of the Helme
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Newton Foundation, but you figure it out. And as part
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: of that process, she had her dear friend Michael Roberts,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: who I think you may have come across over the years,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: write the piece. And as part of that, we were
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: going on a big shoot in California, Salt Flat, kind
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: of like we did in Puebla, and it was produced
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: obviously by us, and this writer or legendary man, Michael Roberts,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: was going to come and Grace was really nervous. And
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: she was nervous because I was at the time very impatient,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: very harsh, very what do you mean? No, it's not
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. And Michael Roberts is unfortunately
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: passed away, but one of my favorite people in life
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I've ever met in my life. But he is not
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: linear at all. And she was so deeply concerned that
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: we were going to hate each other, and instead I
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: found him so curious and so fabulous and amazing, and
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: he thought it was hilarious that I was this tightly wound,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: semi assholely assistant that kind of thought she was in
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: charge of everybody. And we got on and maybe three
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: years later that whole you know, a door didn't open
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: but a window cracked crawl through. He went to Vanity
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Fair as the fashion director, and Michael is not a
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: corporate person. He did not like it. So his solution
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: then was to come and rescue me from Vogue, and
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Grace had wanted to get rid of me for ages,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: not as her assistant. At that point, I'd clawed my
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: way to some junior editor with the attitude to match,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: and Michael offered me this role at Vanity Fair because
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: he basically was like, I don't want to do this job, Like,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: you can be my senior editor and I'll be in
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Rio de Janeiro living my best life. And it was
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: the best thing that's ever happened to both of us.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: I think we had a huge amount of fun. And
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: then he left and then I just took his job.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: But that would never have happened had I not been miserable,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: as you know, a junior editor at Vogue.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: So you made a connection while you were working at Vogue,
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: and then that connection took you over to any Fair.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that that's also my point. You can kind
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: of not plan any of those things. I didn't actually,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: you know, I thought I was going to be at
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Vogue for the longest time, possibly forever, because it was
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: full of lifers, and Grace very rightly knew that I
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: needed to get out and sort of be an editor
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: elsewhere with a view to coming back or not. But
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: it had gotten to the point where I think you
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: can sometimes be in a situation where it's not that
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: it's not so much you're overstaying the welcome, but you're
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: doing a disservice to yourself, staying in a situation that
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: I'm saying nobody outgrows vogue, but I outgrew the version
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: that I thought I had to be in order to
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: survive there. And in hindsight, you know, I really think
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: my personality would have been deeply negatively impacted over time,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: through no fault of anyone else. But my perception of
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: what was necessary and so leaving was actually I think
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: one of the kindest gifts, because if I'm honest, I
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: feel like Grace kind of like very passive, aggressively pushed
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: me out. She probably said to Michael, please hire her,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: it's the disaster. I mean, I don't know if any
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: of that's true, and I think Michael was tired me,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: but it turned out to be the right thing in
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: the moment. I wasn't sure about it. The only thing
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: I liked is that you were paid a lot more
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: at Vanity Fair than you were at Vogue. So of
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: course that's not hard when you're a junior editor to
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: go somewhere where they actually pay you, and that made
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: it easier.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: Is any of this because I have to ask because
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Devil Wore is product.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Two is coming out amazing press tour. She's fantastic.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: They the outfits are I mean, they were dying fantastic.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: My friend is a publicist on that press tour and
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: I texted her the other day and I said, I'm
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: so proud of you because what you just did the
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: last two weeks is crazy.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: They she must be exhausted.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: She owned so much mental brain space of so many
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: different people. Yeah, they did that really brilliantly. Yeah, really brilliantly. Well.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: I just saw the interview with Leslie Freemar that just
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: came out. Did they pronounce that correctly?
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: OK?
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Good?
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Just making sure.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: When I was an assistant at Ralph Lauren, I remember
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: seeing her name on when I would.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Send looks for Vogue shoots.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: I remember writing Leslie Freemar on the garment bag and
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: sending them out. But it just came out that she
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: was the assistant to Anna that the movie was written about.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: I had no idea. Did you know that before?
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: All knew that. Yes, because nobody could remember. Nobody could
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: remember Lauren because Lauren wasn't there for so long and
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: she really was not part of She really didn't want
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: to be there. There was nothing wrong with her. Maybe
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: she was nice, maybe she wasn't nice. I didn't really
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: talk to her. But Leslie was in charge. There was
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: no question in anybody's mind that the actions, not the character,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: not the personality, but this sort of the rigor that
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: was required by the first assistant was embodied by Leslie.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Leslie is a super nice person. Can she be impatient, Yes,
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: like anybody with works of Vogue, Like that's not the
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: most patient place in the universe. But so, the meanness
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: wasn't Leslie. The meanness was lots of other people or
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: a combination amalgamation of all of them. But the rigor
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: and the sort of the craze over things like oh,
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: I don't think Leslie ever would have said that she's
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: one stomach flew away from her perfect weight. I don't
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: think so, right, But we were all nuts.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: So yeah, maybe given the timing of the movie, and
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: now that I have you on my couch, I want
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: to know, what is the biggest misconception about those days
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: in fashion?
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: I think the biggest misconception about fashion in general, or
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: the surface level of fashion, is that it's all superficial
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: and sort of frivolous and silly. And that's I think
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: that's a misconception because it's also so much more available
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: to everybody, Whereas in one way, what the book or
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: the film did, it's sort of skewered in a way,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: the total seriousness with which everybody approached it, and the
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: kind of cattiness and the meanness and the oh you're
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: wearing the new Chanel boots and now you're fine. It's
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: all not wrong. I mean, it's not completely wrong. But
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: and that's where I think the book, by no means
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: is like a literary feet But that bit scene about
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: the stupid sweater is actually a really great distillation of
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: how much goes into the behemoth that is the fashion
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: and luxury industry and by extension, the beauty industry. Some
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: of the people at the top level of crafting that
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: the brand narratives, the you know, the design, the photography.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: They're some of the most thoughtful people you'll ever meet
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: because they're constantly questioning how to evoke a three D
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: feeling in a two D world, which is where they operate.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: So I think what it got right is, yes, there's
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: some crazy, silly stuff that used to go on. And
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: what I think it also right is that there's a
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: lot of thoughtfulness under that cerulean sweater. So I did
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: think it got that right. I haven't seen the new
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: one yet. I kind of don't want to because I
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: was kind of liking the spectacle of the press tour
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: and I feel like I got so many wonderful, like
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: little moments and soundbites. I think Anna's Oscar situation was
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: absolutely brilliant. I thought that was really great, So I
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: kind of almost don't need to see it. Yeah, also
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: because it's kind of sad because the magazines are so dead.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: And it's it's almost too close because you were.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: In it, yeah, and I wanted to kind of go down.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, it's sometimes when a movie comes out the
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: second version, you're always thinking, Okay, is this did they
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: kill the first movie by making the second movie?
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: But I think it's I don't know I'm going to
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: watch it because.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: I will watch it too, but I'll probably watch it
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: on the plane, mostly because I was just saying to
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: a friend he said, oh, should we go? Should we go?
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: And I said, you know what, I kind of can't
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: because it's giving me this. Yes, I don't know why,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: but it's giving me where your florals to the to
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: the premiere, Like, I'm worried about all the people that
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: want to go watch it, and I don't want to
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: be the person in the audience that have eye rolling
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: about people being really excited. So I want to take
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: my own jadedness and leave it at home.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: I understand other people watch it on the plane, exactly.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Can I watch on the plane today? I'm flying back
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: to La No.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: I think it's theaters today. I think they're going to
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: milk the theater. They didn't invest that much to ye not.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: If that should be a theater movie, Yeah, that should
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: absolutely be a theater movie.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Because it's fun to see with friends.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: Totally if I were Yeah, I loved the Vogue cover
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: two of Maryland at that was fantastic.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: That was fantastic, and I knew about it in the
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: sense that Grace was on a top secret project. We
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: had dinner early sushi dinner, and I could tell she
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: was in a really pissed off mood and and I
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: was like, what's wrong. She's like, a I just had
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: a really long shoot dead, a really long shoot in.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, what you do. I can't
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: talk about it. It's top secret, talk about it. And
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: so she wouldn't tell me, and that's obviously not good
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: enough for me. So I kept guessing, and then I
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: threw out a guess and I thought I saw her
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: eyebrow go up. And I continued the dinner furious, furious,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: and I don't know even why it was that furious
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: that Milania Trump was going to be on a vote cover.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Like that is the story that I'd come up with,
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: because Grace wouldn't give me anything, and she just let
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: me go down that road, let me go down that road.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: And she's like, huh, I'm not saying anything. I'm not
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: saying anything. And the entire time I was convinced, to
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: my credit, I never told anyone that Mlania is going
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: to be thankfully, because I looked really stupid. But yeah, no,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: she's really funny.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: I love that secret after you guys have had this
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: long relationship for decades and now she's she still won't
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: tell you.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Oh no, No, that's so funny. I would be pissed her.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, come on, no, and I really tried,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: and I'm so sure that i'd gotten it. She's like, no,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: it's quite preposterous. You will never get it. Yeah.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Well, that's why she's Grace Coddington because she can be
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: so close to you and still you know, put.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Her work first, really.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Vogue through and through.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Wow, go Grace. I have a Grace Countington book right there.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: That's the one I worked. Yeah, thirty years of fashion,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: a Vogue Mistakes.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: It's been there. I did not put it out for you, no.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I know, because it doesn't have the orange thing around it.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: That's because my dog took a bite out of it
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: and I had to throw it away.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm the only one that doesn't actually
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: have the book because I used to have so many
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: of them, and then I kept giving them away because
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: they were whatever. The print run was limited, and then
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: I ended up with none. So actually, that's so funny.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: For one. Yeah, we went through a period of time
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: where when my Golden retriever was a puppy. She would
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: go after my coffee table books, and I'm like, not
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: my books. Everyone who knows me knows that I am
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: addicted to coffee table books.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: And it was very upset about that one.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: She's coming out with another one.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, well we both need to oh, okay, thank.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: You very nice.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: So you were at Vanity Fair for how long?
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: I think it was thirteen fourteen years, so wow, yeah,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: thirteen fourteen, and I loved it. I thought it was
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: a really it was a really special place to work
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: at the tail end of a very special time. So
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: I got just enough tail end, as you said, of
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: watched the slow implosion of ad sales and things like that.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: But what was for me the most interesting professionally was
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: I come. I'd come from Vogue. So everything is about,
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: oh my god, Prada shoe number four and if it's
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: not that shoe, we can't do the shoot and it's
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: a disaster. And I remember Michael Roberts calling in all
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: these Manolo Blonic Bbe pumps and at the time, it
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: was all about Marnie shoes, clunky Prada shoes, Nicola Guesque's
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: balanced Yaga kind of clunky shoes. It was clunky, and
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: I was horrified. I was like, I can't, my goodness,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: like this these are that's so tacky. I don't know
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: why I thought timeless was tacky, but I've been in
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: such a fashion bubble that it just didn't register. And
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: thankfully I learned very quickly, and it was really sort
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: of the school for me what timelessness means and style
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: means over fashion. I had a total fashion brain. I
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: only cared about fashion, and then by the time I
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: got there, I learned very quickly that the type of
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: image making required there has to live for longer than
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: a trend cycle. Otherwise it doesn't mean anything, right, it
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean anything if you in the context of Vanity Fair,
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: not fashion magazines. So, but photographing someone like Nicole Kidman,
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: let's say, for Vanity Fair, is a different for an
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: endeavor than photographing her for Vogue, Right, And you don't
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: necessarily want to look back at a Vanity Fair portrait
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: done by Annie Leibovitz of Nicole Kidman and go, oh
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: my god, that's spring summer Chloe, and doesn't it look amazing?
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: You kind of don't want to know, it's you know,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: it's supposed to feel a little bit more permanent in
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: a way, and so that was a real learning curve.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: And then of course it had to do with the
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: fact that the overall aesthetic felt more Hollywood, old Hollywood,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: not red carpet even, but sort of that old Hollywood glamour,
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: which was something that I hadn't really embraced prior to that.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: I feel like that's still a theme for them, I
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: mean their Oscar party.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that they do a really.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: Good job at protecting the core of this is an
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: old Hollywood party you have to be I mean, that
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: invite list is strict, but I understand you don't want
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: to open the floodgates to people who are the vibe
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: of the magazine, right.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: No, exactly, and they've done that. They've done that very well.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I think. I think it went through phases again pretty
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: much coinciding with how can we monetize the vanity fair name,
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: you know, if it's not only the ad page, as
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: well as can we make cash. I think for a
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: little while the party suffered a little bit because they
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: had to invite sponsorship and suddenly you're you know, it's
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: not that chic when it's sponsored by Grey Goose. Nothing
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: wrong with Gray Goose, fabulous brand, but that sort of
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: insider equality falls away, and I think they've done a
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: very good job of trying to bring that back in theory. Yeah,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: I think so.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: I just worked with them in back in February. I
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: did a shoot with them to promote.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: A product during the Oscars, which was very cool because
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: I was always the assistant on set with you and
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: my old bosses, and then to step back into that
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: space and do it with Andy Fair. But now, and
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: now that we're talking to this, I would it would
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: have never been Vogue, you know. Vogue would be like
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: who are you and get off, you know, get out
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: of here.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: I would.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: It just wouldn't be a thing.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: But I think Vanity Fair is a little bit more
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: like entertainment focused and than fashion.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, much more. Yeah, and in that way, you know,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: for me at that time, it was also a completely
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: different way of working culturally, it was a different It
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: was just a different culture. Whereas Vogue was always much
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: harsher and more direct, Vanity Fair was much more a
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: sort of veneer of gentility. So you wrote the fuck
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: you and a thank you note that you signed like
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: it was polite. Yeah, I mean, take the fuck you outside,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: but you wrote you could be. It was all about
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: manners and and that was definitely something that was the
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: right time for me to learn. We hadn't really dealt
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: with this idea of you get more bees with honey
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: we are I mean, I think many of us went
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: with the fumigation situation and I you know, tried to
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: corral the bees where we wanted them without any finesse.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: But again, I think that that is part of the
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: growth and learning process of like forging in your career.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: So I found Vanity Fair an incredibly well mannered place
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: where people really treated each other with respect, a huge
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: amount of respect top down. And that was that was
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: like a breath of fresh air. You know, the emails
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: were not it wasn't just demands written without a sign off.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: It was deer soon. So if you could possibly when
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: you have a moment, you know, it was all very Yeah,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: what a breath of fresh air it was. It was
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: wonderful and it really it really changed my completely changed
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: my outlook because I had sort of been raised in
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: the early part of my career with okay, efficiency is king,
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: and that means there's no space or no need for
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: the not necessarily the please and thank you or like
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: the interpersonal, but the interpersonal or the sort of thoughtful thoughtfulness.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying Vogue is a place of no manners
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: by any stretch of the imagination, but there was less
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: thoughtfulness and care. See. I mean it's also not you know,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: it was the nineties, and it was the nineties, but no,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: I think again, anytime you criticize something or look at
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: something in hindsight, it's also through your own lens. You know,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: I look at it and think, God, I mean, I
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: think I wouldn't have gotten away with half the things
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: I got away with today. I mean, I'd be an
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: hr you know. So, so I think everybody sort of
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: had a big part in a different type of culture.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: But Van Venue Fair very specifically, and even the interactions
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: with advertise and the luxury houses, which is how I
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: met a lot of the people I work with now,
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: they were a relationship with partnership, not something that felt like,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: oh well, if we day knew to make address, then
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: maybe we'll shoot it. It was very much like, how
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: can we collaborate and make this a meaningful collaboration which
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: was a different approach, and I really I loved it.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: I have to say I loved also being a small fish.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: You know, there's something about great There were phenomenal talented writers.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: I mean Christopher Hitchins, who was such a legend. I
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: think one of my first work lunches was a sort
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: of small senior editor lunch with Christopher Hitchens, and you
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: just realized, God, I'm so unimportant in fashion, is so unimportant.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: This person is so interesting, and oh my god, the
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: world is so much bigger, and it just felt very
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: It just felt culturally so much more on point in
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: terms of what I found in interesting at that time.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: So it was, you know, it was super exciting.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: And stepping into that space.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: How did you go about forging all of these new relationships?
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: Did some carry over from Vogue or did you have
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: to start from scratch?
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: What was that?
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Like a lot of them carried over from Vogue, especially
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: in the sort of creative you know, the photographers and
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: hair and makeup and things like that. But when it
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: came to brand relationships and pr and all of those things,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: it's not so much from scratch, because you're never from
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: scratch when you're at a place like Vanity Fair, right,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: you're from scratch of who you are in the context
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: of that place. And so I was very, very lucky
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: that I didn't have to work that hard because all
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: the brands wanted to work with Vanity Fair. So it
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: was more that I had to live up to the gentility, politeness,
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: collaborative spirit, thoughtfulness that was what was necessary at Vanity Fair.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: And so no, it wasn't from scratch because it was
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: not just on my own back, but it was. What
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: I think is so interesting is that you also always, always,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: always encounter people again and again and again at different
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: stages of their own career and even your career. So
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: the adage of be great to people on their way
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: up is something that I think is unbelievably true. You know,
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: it's the people that terrify me are the people that
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: can manage up, which I still haven't managed to do,
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: but then kind of kick down. And I think that
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: that's you know, that holds a long memory, and eventually
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: most people that you encounter and remember, for whatever reason,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: you will encounter them again.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: So of course that's fashion, that's entertainment.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, I still see people who I was when
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: I was an assistant. I was either doing something for
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: them or dropping something off or sending a garment. And
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: now I'm interacting with these people when I'm running my
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: own company.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: Ten years later, and it's very odd.
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: But I just think to myself, Okay, thank god that
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: I made the connection and it stuck. Or I was
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: polite and I was kind and I was I showed
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: them that I was eager and I would always clock people.
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: And now today it's just the industries that we both
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: work in are so small, so it's really important too.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: I think, like make sure that you were just always
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: being cautious of it was in the paying attention.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: Paying attention. And also, you know, I think the other
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: thing is it's so ridiculous. Of course, you can't be
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: nice every single day of your life, but you can
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: always kind of be respectful or appropriate. And because I
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: think nice is also.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: I think that's it. It's being appropriate.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: I'm not always nice, you know what. Sometimes I'm in
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: a bad mood and if someone is telling me to
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: my face incorrect information that I know is incorrect, and
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: they keep going, of course I'm going to get frustrated
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: because it's frustrating, right, But I'm still now able to
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: maintain an appropriate level of Actually, let's look at it
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: another way, And I think that's something that I think
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: is I think moods days, I think all of those
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: things are forgivable. But I think as an assistant, if
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: you show up consistently not delivering terrible, that will follow
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: you forever. I think in this day and age, if
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: you show up consistently with an attitude of entitlement, with rudeness,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: or you know, lots of things I used to get
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: away with, I don't think you can anymore because culture
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: is just entirely different. And I think that is definitely
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: for the better.
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: Totally, I mean, and that's something that I take into considerate.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: I guess having.
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: Been an assistant, when I do all these matchmaking, I
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: have to really pair people up with personalities as if
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: they were dating.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: So it's going to ask you about that.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, it's been a craft that I've
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: really learned from having been in it myself and then
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: from you know, having works with talent, Like I know
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: both sides really well. But it's hard because I feel
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: like it's interesting that your boss could identify like, oh,
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: she can be a little snippy sometimes and I know
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: this side of her.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Like with my assistant an asshole, But I.
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: Really try to pair people up as if they're entering
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: this long term relationship with each other, and I do
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: have to consider personality traits and whose communication style is
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: going to clash with the other person's communication style.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: And maybe in the nineties it.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: Worked for you and Grace, but not a lot of
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: bosses would be a Grace and they would kick their
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: assistant to the curb if their assistant was an asshole,
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: or maybe they're not.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Aware of it.
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: But it's all these things that I now have to consider, Yeah,
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: that go into like this, you know, partnership.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think, you know, like anything, I think
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: you get away with more when you're delivering.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Right, So I think even when I look at I
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: had an assistant that I'm incredibly proud of called Devin Hershey,
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: and she you know, sometimes I would watch her do
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: things and I would think, oh my god, it's like
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: watching your child, and it's like, oh no, no, I
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: think she got that from me. I've got to like
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: beat it out of her. That's bad, Like I don't
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't be doing it. Yeah, And you watch them
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: sort of you know by osmosis sort of do it,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: and I think she embodies the best of all the worlds.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: But I think when you're matching people up, I was
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: reading some of the Jobless stings and kept trying to
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: sort of figure out, well, who could those people be,
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: Like there was.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: Everyone's favor game.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: By the way, because we post on our Instagram, yeah
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: actress in La seeking assistant, and the dms we get saying, oh,
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: I bet it's this person, And I'm like, why do
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: you think that we literally gave no information, no informations
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: of this fantasy land that goes that goes on.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: But I imagine that matching those things up is when
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: you say communication style, I actually think that's possibly the
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: most important, because certain people just cannot ever say what
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: they mean, especially if it's something uncomfortable, and that sort
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: of directness without harshness. I'm still like trying to soften
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: the harshness, but the directness, I think is something that
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: I would value more than maybe some of my contemporaries.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: They kind of like sort of being coddled to the
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: bad news. I don't just tell me happening.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: I'm necessarious.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Let's move On's find something new. Yes, no, yes, no.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: And I think that that actually does still come from
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: the old Vogue days, which was a very yes no, yes, no,
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: yes was a yes, the no was a no and
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: please don't come back, right, And.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: That's having been an assistant though. That probably taught you
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: about the type of boss that you would like to
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: be today. Yeah, and makes you a better boss because
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: you're so aware of what assistants go through.
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: A yeah, be what it felt like, and you were
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: literally doing that job yourself. I just think it makes
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: you so much more aware and accountable. And I now
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: have an assistant as well, which is so odd, Like
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm new here, and I thought that I
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: needed something totally different, and then I found Emily, and
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: I can't imagine having anyone else besides Emily.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: She is the loveliest human being.
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: And I think that I hope I'm doing a good
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: job but managing my team and managing her because I
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: did the job. It just opened my eyes to I
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: think I'm just a little bit more sympathetic to what
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: they're trying to balance on a day to day basis.
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: Not like I'm asking her to do anything insane, but
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: being an assistant, you want to please your boss.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: There's no such thing as no, you're trying to do
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: it all.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: But there are times when people on my team or
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: someone's going to make a mistake or forget something, and
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, it's not a big deal,
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: you know, unless it's a really big deal, but it's
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: you know, that.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Kind of thing happens. And I think when you have
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: that experience or when you've gone through it and you
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: suddenly look back and go, oh my god. I don't
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: think I went to the doctor a single time from
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: the age of twenty one to thirty right because there
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: was never a good time to go. I had more
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: brown hair because highlights. When was I going to do that?
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: And all of those things that they felt fine for
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: me at the time, they were hard to navigate. But
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: I would never want to do that to anyone. But
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: I also think, you know, the simple fact that you're
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: thinking about am I doing? Am I being a good
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: thoughtful boss? Am I?
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Are they learning? And so on? The fact that you're
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: thinking about it probably means that you are. It's a
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: little bit that whole. Like, if you're thinking you're the narcissist,
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: you're probably not because the narcissists wouldn't think about that,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: clearly another Instagram problem perimenopause and narcissm. But no, I
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: think that that's how to be a good boss. I
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: think has changed and evolved, but I think the core
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: fundamentals sort of remain the same. They really are. Treat
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: people how you want to be treated, and that's it's
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: as basic as that. And own a mistake, even if
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: it's not yours. Yeah, you know, defend your assistant.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: I just think your career is so interesting and the
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: fact that you were in.
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: The nineties working in fashion is so cool, and I
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: wish that I had that experience because especially after Love Story,
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: I just.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, that was fair. Yes, I didn't want to like it,
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: and I loved it.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: I loved it.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: My friend wrote and created it, Connor, very proud of.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: Him, loved it.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: But it just I felt like New York.
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: I feel like New York was so much cooler back then,
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: and I'm very jealous, but it was when I worked
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: in fashion. It wasn't like, no, you still got some
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: I do still got some, but I just I don't know.
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: I think New York in the nineties was in another life.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: Oh my God, it was yeah.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Nostalgized, Yes, a thing, it really was.
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: But you like, think about how you came up in
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: this industry having done that, worked at Vogue and Vanity Fair,
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: and now you're doing your own stuff and like such
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: a boss who I've always looked up to.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: And I met you when I was an assistant in
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: my twenties, and now look at.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: Us, I think, I mean, look at the getting an
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: email from from Megan Grimm or a text. You're like,
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen this girl since twenty twenty, but yes,
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: I'll come on her podcast, you know.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you navigate life, yes.
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: And there's people that you can call from having when
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: or there's people that you can call from having been
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: an assistant saying can you do me a favor? Or
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: of course you're still friends with Grace Coddington, who is
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: a legend because you were her assistant and now you
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: guys have this amazing friendship. It's just so important to
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: be wary of these things.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: So I think that is the ultimate end result of
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: were there a thousand days where I wanted to stab
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: Grace with a number two pencil? Yes, because she's super
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: impossible to work with while pretending that she wasn't you know,
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: Oh you're so mean. It's like, well, no, you'd kill
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: me if I didn't deliver. So it's you will always
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: in some like right before it's really as silly as that.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Right before a sort of leap or a change, you
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: tend to get super frustrated with where you are. And
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: I think the most important thing in hindsight that doesn't
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: mean I ever did it in hindsight, is to exit
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: before you get to that point, or if you can
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: hand because not everything is puppies and roses, and you
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: can't get a next job, and your leap is not
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: imminent just because you say it. So you have to
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: think about the fact how you your last three months
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: in your job are more important in whatever, whatever the
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: project is, or a job or a commitment, whatever it is,
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: the last three months are more important than what you
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: did for the two years or three years you were there,
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: and that I wish I'd thought about that more. But
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: I think ultimately, when you're on your way and you're
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: an impatient person, I think it's hard to remember that
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: in the moment, but it is the key to maintaining
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: those relationships and to being able to show up. You
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: also have to show up for people when there's nothing
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: in it for you. You know, the biggest red flag
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: is people calling you for stuff and then never calling
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: you again. And you know there's friends that go through
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: ups and downs in their career in life and you
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: just show up for them. The bars actually pretty low
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: if you commit to showing up for someone, even though
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: there might be a bigger, better party or dinner that
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: you were supposed to go to. You stick to the
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: commitment you made. And I think that level of showing
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: up that never changes from assistant to editor, right, that's really.
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: Important, right and staying in a job where Okay, this
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: isn't going to benefit me right now, or it's actually
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: blindly benefiting you and you don't realize it once you're
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: doing the annoying admin task. But this job is actually
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: going to take you so much further than you think
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: because by you doing the annoying admin task, your boss
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: can go on and change the world and get that
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: cover or you get that deal, and you are taking
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: a load off of their plate so they can focus,
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: and then you earn their trust, you earn their friendship,
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: all that organic stuff mentorship starts to happen. But I
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: think a lot of people hear the word assistant and
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: they don't want to do the job.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but then they're focused on the wrong thing, And
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: I think, look, did I think it was the biggest
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: deal when I went from fashion assistant to fashion associate? Yes?
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: I did, and I fought for it and I really
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: wanted it. And then moving to me, we deserve editor.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: But I get why. You know, it's one thing like
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: when you're older to say, like, it's not about the title.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: Do you know what If it's not about the title,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: then make it easier to get the title right. If
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: I hired an assistant and they really wanted to be
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: called assistant creative director whatever that means. Sure, if that's
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: going to make you work harder or feel motivated, sure,
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: no big deal. On the other hand, doling titles out
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: is also why everybody's now a creative director. So focus
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: on the work, not the title, and really, to be
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: perfectly honest, focus on the pay because if your pay
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: is adequate and good, that means much more than having
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: a title. The connections you form will get you your
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: next title. So don't be title focused. Yeah, that's I
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: would say, Having been the most like tidle focused person
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: in the world. It's a little bit like.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Very very self aware.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got it because we all we all like
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: to sort of put on the rose colored glasses of
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: like back of my time and Boogue I was a dick.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: What can I say?
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: Well, on that note, you were the best. Thank you
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: so much.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: That was so fun. You guys