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#589 Jason Flom with Tyrone Noling · Wrongful Conviction

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: This is difficult.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: It's difficult cleaning for your life, especially.
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: When you haven't been hurt for a long time. I'm
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: an innocent person on Ohio's death row. I don't belong
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: here and I need help.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Now's the time.
• 0:21
  Speaker 4: Tyrone has been on death row in Ohio for over
• 0:25
  Speaker 4: 30 years, where he remains to this day.
• 0:29
  Speaker 5: On August 25th, the Ohio Parole Board issued a recommendation
• 0:33
  Speaker 5: for executive clemency in the form of commutation from death
• 0:36
  Speaker 5: row to life, eligibility for parole. Two members of the
• 0:40
  Speaker 5: board opposed clemency. One member supported Tyrone's request for a
• 0:44
  Speaker 5: full pardon in his immediate release. We're encouraged that members
• 0:48
  Speaker 5: of the parole board agree that executive clemency is appropriate
• 0:51
  Speaker 5: and recognize the serious problems in Tyrone's case. We think
• 0:54
  Speaker 5: it's highly significant that the board member who actually voted
• 0:58
  Speaker 5: for a full pardon was a former prosecutor. Typically, former
• 1:02
  Speaker 5: prosecutors are among the most critical reviewers during the post-conviction
• 1:07
  Speaker 5: review process. The parole board makes a recommendation, but the
• 1:11
  Speaker 5: ultimate decision belongs to Governor DeLay. The governor is not
• 1:14
  Speaker 5: limited to the particular form of clemency recommended by a
• 1:17
  Speaker 5: majority of the parole board. Governor DeWine has the unique
• 1:21
  Speaker 5: authority here to look at all of the circumstances in
• 1:24
  Speaker 5: the case and the record that's existed for over 35 years.
• 1:28
  Speaker 5: He is not subject to the same time constraints and
• 1:31
  Speaker 5: restrictions that sometimes exist on the court, so he can
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: send Tyrone home a meet. We very much appreciate Governor
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: DeWine's consideration of that request.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: I would just like to thank everybody involved And to
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: encourage them again.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Look into my case. To get involved. To be a
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: voice for me. Because I don't belong here.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: I wish I could say more, but being in this
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: situation for this many years, you don't know what to
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: say anymore. You just want to go in a hole
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: and never come out.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: But I'm going to keep fighting.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: I hope that people will fight with me and for me.
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. This is a hard one,
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: even for me, because this is one of the most twisted, entangled, nonsensical,
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: and I'm going to say evil, wrongful convictions that I
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: know of. And of course, I'm referring to the case
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: of Tyrone Noling. Tyrone has been on death row in
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: Ohio for over 30 years. where he remains to this day.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: And with us today to talk about the case is
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: a man who knows it like the back of his hand,
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: Brian Howe. Brian is an attorney with the Ohio Innocence Project.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: So Brian, I'm glad you're here, but Jesus, this.
• 3:01
  Speaker 6: Is going to be a tough one. Thanks, Jason.
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: And Tyrone, I'm so glad you're here with us today,
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: even though I'm so very sorry because of the reason
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: why you're here and even more so because of where
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: you are.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: So, Tyrone, let's start by going back to before everything
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: that's happened. What was your life like growing up?
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I grew up in a small town outside of Canton, Ohio,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: in Stark County called Alliance.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I grew up in a one-parent home with four other siblings.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: And my childhood was like any other childhood. Did sports,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: went to school.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: And as I got older, I got in a little trouble.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: But for the most part, life at home was pretty good.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Turned 18.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: And I pretty much.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Found myself on my own, just hanging out with a
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: group of friends that I had grew up with.
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: And the group of friends that you mentioned here, you're
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: talking about Johnny Trandefer, Gary St. Clair, Joseph D'Alessandro, and
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: Butch Walcott. And the latter three all play a part
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: in this wrongful conviction. Now, you all were staying together
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: in the same house, right?
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't really know Butch Walcott. I grew up
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: with Gary St. Clair and Joey D'Alessandro. We lived pretty
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: much in the same neighborhood and knew each other since kindergarten.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Gary's stepdad had an accident and the house became vacant.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: So we all just started congregating there. We were just
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: hanging out.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: We were doing dumb stuff, you know, bought pizza, chased girls,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: stayed up late.
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: And Brian, I want to bring you back in here.
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: So like Tyrone says, he was getting into some trouble,
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: which is what leads to the connection with this crime, right?
• 4:40
  Speaker 6: Sure. I mean, the reason that Tyrone was on the
• 4:43
  Speaker 6: radar of investigators was that there were two burglaries that
• 4:49
  Speaker 6: happened the next county over that Tyrone was ultimately arrested
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: for and pleaded guilty to. And those robberies were what
• 4:58
  Speaker 6: made him a target in the Harding murder investigation to
• 5:02
  Speaker 6: begin with.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: Tyrone and the other young men were involved in some burglaries.
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: And in one, he did have a gun that they
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: got from another robbery. And the gun went off accidentally
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: and shot directly into the floor. But Tyrone made sure
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: that no one was hurt before running away. I mean,
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: this is not a guy who was out to hurt anyone.
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: He was definitely doing some very dumb things, but not
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: a violent guy. And he was arrested for those robberies.
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: pled guilty, and ended up serving time in prison. And
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: that leads us up to this crime, which happens fatefully
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: around the same time. I'm talking about April 5th, 1990,
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: which is when Bernhardt and Cora Harding, both 81 years old,
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: were shot to death in their own home. From the
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: look of things, they had been doing some spring cleaning,
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: and they were shot while sitting at their dining room table.
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: This is in Atwater, Ohio, which is a rural town
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: in Portage County.
• 5:59
  Speaker 6: And if you don't know Atwater, Ohio, it's almost a
• 6:03
  Speaker 6: stretch to call it a town. The people who live
• 6:06
  Speaker 6: within a square mile of this, you could count on
• 6:09
  Speaker 6: your hands.
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: So let me set the stage. Saturday, April 7th, 1990,
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: at 6.15 p.m., Chief Detective Dwayne Cayley was notified by
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: dispatcher Kathy Rubino that Jim Rubino had called and reported
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: that there were two people laying on the kitchen floor
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: of the neighbor's house. Jim's mother, who had lived next
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: door to the Hardigs for 30 years, asked him to
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: go check on them when she noticed their garage had
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: been open with the lawnmower outside for almost three days.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: There was no answer when he knocked on the door
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: and their car was in the garage. She looked inside
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: and saw the Hardigs laying on the kitchen floor. Now, 10.
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: 25 caliber shell cases were found on the floor of
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: the Hardig home. Papers from the living room desk were
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: scattered around the room. Dresser drawers and jewelry boxes were
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: open and had been rifled through. At this point, Detective
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: Cayley reported that there didn't seem to be any signs
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: of struggle from the victims.
• 7:03
  Speaker 6: Mr.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: Harding's wallet was in his pocket and the money was
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: still inside. So there was no forced entry found in
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: the house. And it seemed as if there had been
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: at least one other person sitting at the kitchen table.
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: You want to take it from here because this gets
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: weirder and weirder.
• 7:21
  Speaker 6: Sure. So it's not a usual occurrence in Atwater, Ohio
• 7:25
  Speaker 6: to have a double murder, especially 80 plus year old victims.
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: And so the sheriff's department began investigating. One of the
• 7:34
  Speaker 6: first leads that they had, and this is even as
• 7:38
  Speaker 6: they are processing the scene, they get a call from
• 7:41
  Speaker 6: a roller rink, maybe a couple of miles away. And
• 7:45
  Speaker 6: there is a person there saying that He lost a.
• 7:50
  Speaker 6: 25 caliber pistol there on Friday night. He was looking
• 7:54
  Speaker 6: for it, trying to see if anyone had turned it in.
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: He was worried that some kids were going to find it.
• 7:58
  Speaker 6: And the person is a man named Dennis Van Steenburg
• 8:01
  Speaker 6: who lived in the area. Police investigate that, but while
• 8:05
  Speaker 6: they're doing that, leads are sort of pouring in, right?
• 8:08
  Speaker 6: This is a big deal in the county. It's a
• 8:09
  Speaker 6: big deal in the city. One of the tips they get, again,
• 8:12
  Speaker 6: almost right away, is from a high school student named
• 8:16
  Speaker 6: Nathan Chesley. And he says, that my foster brother told
• 8:20
  Speaker 6: me that he was the person who had killed the Hartigs.
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: And so police are investigating that lead as well.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: So right off the bat, they have some pretty strong
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: leads here, right? So what's going on with the first guy,
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: Dennis Van Steenburg?
• 8:35
  Speaker 6: They go talk to him. He says, well, yes, I
• 8:38
  Speaker 6: did have a 25. I don't know where it went.
• 8:40
  Speaker 6: It must have fallen out of my car or something
• 8:42
  Speaker 6: like that around the time of the murders. He said
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: he had found it. So The police check the pistol
• 8:48
  Speaker 6: to the ballistics of the rounds recovered from the scene,
• 8:52
  Speaker 6: and it's not a match. And so at that point,
• 8:54
  Speaker 6: the investigation into Van Steenburg sort of fades away. In
• 8:59
  Speaker 6: the meantime, the police have followed up on Nathan Chesley's tip.
• 9:03
  Speaker 6: They go to his house, which is a woman who
• 9:07
  Speaker 6: had fostered a lot of sort of troubled teens in
• 9:09
  Speaker 6: the area. It's less than a mile and a half
• 9:13
  Speaker 6: from the scene, and you remember Chesley There's not a
• 9:15
  Speaker 6: lot of people who live as close as Nathan Chesley
• 9:19
  Speaker 6: did to the victims in this case. And so the
• 9:22
  Speaker 6: police ask whether there's a foster brother around who they
• 9:25
  Speaker 6: can interview. And they're told there's a foster brother. He's
• 9:28
  Speaker 6: only 14 years old. And they eliminate this foster brother
• 9:32
  Speaker 6: pretty quickly. In the meantime, they also get a tip
• 9:36
  Speaker 6: from the neighboring county, Stark County. Stark County has been
• 9:40
  Speaker 6: investigating a series of break-ins where A group of teenagers
• 9:45
  Speaker 6: has been going to various houses saying, my car broke
• 9:49
  Speaker 6: down and I'd like to use your telephone. When they're
• 9:52
  Speaker 6: let inside the house, they then produce a shotgun and
• 9:56
  Speaker 6: what turns out to be a fake. 38 caliber revolver.
• 9:59
  Speaker 6: And they take various valuables, VCRs, jewelry, things like that.
• 10:04
  Speaker 6: And that turns out to be Tyrone Rowling and his co-defendants.
• 10:09
  Speaker 6: So Tyrone is arrested with his co-defendants and they find
• 10:13
  Speaker 6: a 25 caliber gun. So now it's very interesting to
• 10:17
  Speaker 6: the Porch County authorities. They test that one for ballistics,
• 10:20
  Speaker 6: and it turns out that it does not match the
• 10:23
  Speaker 6: one that was used in the crime.
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's no getting around that. So at this point,
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: the sheriff knows that these guys, Tyrone and his friends,
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: are not involved in the murders.
• 10:33
  Speaker 6: So at that point, the investigation sort of stalls out
• 10:36
  Speaker 6: for about a year. The detectives are facing pressure. They
• 10:40
  Speaker 6: come up with another lead. This time, they talk to
• 10:43
  Speaker 6: the Hartig's doctor, Dr. Canone, the week before the bodies
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: were found. Mr. Harding told Dr. Canone that he had
• 10:51
  Speaker 6: lent $ 10, 000 to an insurance salesman, that the insurance salesman
• 10:54
  Speaker 6: had failed to pay when the loan had come due
• 10:56
  Speaker 6: on April 1st, that something fishy was going on with
• 11:00
  Speaker 6: this loan and with the insurance salesman explanation for why
• 11:02
  Speaker 6: he refused to pay. And as soon as he got
• 11:04
  Speaker 6: off the phone with Dr. Canone, he was going to
• 11:06
  Speaker 6: go sort this out with the insurance salesman. The police
• 11:10
  Speaker 6: start to look at insurance salesman that the Hardings had
• 11:12
  Speaker 6: dealt with, and they find a man named Louis Lehman.
• 11:15
  Speaker 6: Lewis Lehman denies having taken out a loan, but he
• 11:19
  Speaker 6: was the insurance salesman for the Hardigs. And what's more,
• 11:23
  Speaker 6: he had a. 25 caliber pistol as well. Unlike the
• 11:27
  Speaker 6: other two pistols that the police have compared, they're able
• 11:31
  Speaker 6: to look up the make and model and see that
• 11:33
  Speaker 6: the pistol Lehman had was consistent with the general rifling
• 11:37
  Speaker 6: characteristics of the rounds that were found in the house.
• 11:41
  Speaker 6: They asked Lehman where his. 25 caliber pistol was. He said, well,
• 11:46
  Speaker 6: I must have sold it. I don't remember who bought it.
• 11:49
  Speaker 6: I don't remember when I sold it. And I'm done
• 11:51
  Speaker 6: answering questions from you all. He refused to take a
• 11:53
  Speaker 6: lie detector test and basically stopped talking to detectives. And
• 11:58
  Speaker 6: at that point, the investigation had basically completely stalled out.
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: So this lead with Lehman, I mean, if this was
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: a movie script, you'd say that this is it was
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: too obvious, right? What I'm trying to wrap my head
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: around here is this sounds like the investigators are just
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: bungling this at every stage. And we haven't even gotten
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: to one of the craziest leads. And that is this guy,
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: Dan Wilson.
• 12:25
  Speaker 6: That's right. Dan Wilson is arrested for a murder a
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: few counties over in northern Ohio. Dan had gotten drunk,
• 12:33
  Speaker 6: put a young woman that he'd met earlier that night
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: in the trunk of his car and set the car
• 12:39
  Speaker 6: on fire. This was very big news, and law enforcement
• 12:44
  Speaker 6: across Northeast Ohio started looking at Dan for basically every
• 12:50
  Speaker 6: unsolved murder that they had. That included the Portage County
• 12:53
  Speaker 6: Sheriff's Department. When they did that, they discovered something about
• 12:56
  Speaker 6: Dan Wilson that they'd missed earlier, and that is that
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: he was a foster brother of Nathan Chesley. very kid
• 13:05
  Speaker 6: who came to them the day after the murder and said,
• 13:07
  Speaker 6: my foster brother confessed to that. When the detectives followed
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: up on that, they never interviewed Nathan Chesley and eliminated
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: the wrong foster brother. They never connected the dots to
• 13:16
  Speaker 6: Dan Wilson. They never bothered to interview Nathan Chesley. And
• 13:20
  Speaker 6: so Dan Wilson, who lived within a mile of the
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: house and who police now believe is a serial killer,
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: was known to them almost immediately after the murder and
• 13:31
  Speaker 6: They let it slip through their fingers. He went on
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: to kill another woman.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: This podcast is brought to you by Ohio Justice and
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: Policy Center, a nonprofit law firm that seeks justice for
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: people directly impacted by Ohio's criminal legal system. OJPC provides
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: free legal services to currently and formerly incarcerated people. Through
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: its Beyond Guilt project, OJPC works to free overpunished people
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: who have rehabilitated themselves. OJPC's Human Rights in Prison project
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: represents people who face denial of medical care. In its
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: 25-year history, OJPC has worked at the policy level and
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: won numerous victories in Ohio, including ending juvenile life without
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: parole and exempting seriously mentally ill people from the death penalty.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: To learn more about Ohio Justice and Policy Center and
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: how you can support its mission, visit OhioJPC.org. That's O-H-I-O-J-P-C
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: dot org. Ohio Justice and Policy Center. We don't write
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: people off.
• 14:53
  Speaker 6: You know, at the very least, I think it must
• 14:55
  Speaker 6: have been embarrassing to the office that they had this
• 14:58
  Speaker 6: tip within days of the murder, and they didn't realize
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: their mistake until Dan Wilson had committed another very high-profile murder.
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: Right at the same time that that's happening, someone gets
• 15:08
  Speaker 6: a call from a woman named Marlene Van Steenburg. She is,
• 15:12
  Speaker 6: I believe, the aunt of Dennis Van Steenburg, again, who
• 15:16
  Speaker 6: was the very first person who they'd looked at and
• 15:18
  Speaker 6: who they eliminated after he turned in his weapon. Well,
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: Marlene says that in those first days of the investigation,
• 15:25
  Speaker 6: Dennis's father had come over to their house and asked
• 15:29
  Speaker 6: his brother, who was Marlene's husband, if he could borrow his.
• 15:34
  Speaker 6: 25 caliber pistol for a few weeks. And when Richard
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: Van Steenburg asked, why do you need my.
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: 25?
• 15:40
  Speaker 6: The response was, well, Dennis had to get rid of
• 15:44
  Speaker 6: his because he was in some sort of trouble with
• 15:47
  Speaker 6: the police and he needed a different one to give
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: the police. And so they ultimately gave it to him.
• 15:54
  Speaker 6: And that was the weapon that was turned into the
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: police and eliminated. What's more, Marlene says that she called
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: the police to tell them this during that original investigation.
• 16:04
  Speaker 6: So the police should have been on notice that Dennis
• 16:07
  Speaker 6: Van Steenburg is turning in the wrong gun for comparison purposes,
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: and they still eliminated Van Steenburg as a suspect. So
• 16:17
  Speaker 6: those two things are happening right back to back. Dan
• 16:20
  Speaker 6: Wilson comes to light, and it comes to light that
• 16:23
  Speaker 6: they basically wasted a ballistic comparison on what they should
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: have known was the wrong gun for Dennis Van Steenburg.
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: So we have these incredibly powerful leads that should have
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: led them, not towards, but away from those four boys,
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: because there's no connection between these nefarious characters and the
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: four kids. What happens next?
• 16:42
  Speaker 6: So that is when the Portage County Prosecuting Attorney's Office
• 16:46
  Speaker 6: takes over the investigation, and they assign their own investigator
• 16:49
  Speaker 6: to the case, a man named Ron Craig.
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: Yes, Ron Craig. Let's not skip over this character. From
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: my understanding, he was known for his extremely aggressive interrogation techniques,
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: for playing fast and loose with the rules in order
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: to get results that he wanted.
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: That's right. Ron Craig was a person who the prosecuting
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: attorney's office turned to who could crack this case open
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: through aggressive interrogation. get results. That is what he was
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: known for at that time. If you look at where
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: the investigation was when they took it over, Dan Wilson
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: at that time was under indictment for murder. You could
• 17:32
  Speaker 6: not interview him without an attorney. Lewis Lehman at that
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: point was not cooperating. He had gotten an attorney as well.
• 17:39
  Speaker 6: Maybe the most logical place for Ron Craig to go
• 17:43
  Speaker 6: was back to these other four kids who had also
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: been eliminated through ballistics and try to see what he
• 17:50
  Speaker 6: could do in terms of interrogating them. And so he
• 17:53
  Speaker 6: started with Butch Wolcott, who was 16 years old at
• 17:57
  Speaker 6: the time.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: And this part, it gets more and more disturbing because
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: they took these four young kids and with the very
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: real threat of the death penalty, they were able to
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: scare these kids and browbeat them into saying things that
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: they knew weren't true. Because they weren't there and they
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: didn't know anything. And basically, as in other false confession
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: cases or false eyewitness cases that we've seen over and
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: over again, they were fed the information by the police.
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: And then they were given basically a Sophie's choice. Either
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: you lie and implicate your friends or we are going
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: to send you to death row. Right. Am I missing anything?
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: No, and I mean, for Butch, if you read the
• 18:40
  Speaker 6: series of interrogations and statements that he makes, at least
• 18:44
  Speaker 6: my impression is that he was terrified, and it's clear
• 18:47
  Speaker 6: he's just trying to do his best. He continues to
• 18:51
  Speaker 6: insist he wasn't there. He had nothing to do with this.
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: He tells them everything they want to know about the
• 18:55
  Speaker 6: two robberies that happened in Stark County, but he says,
• 18:58
  Speaker 6: we never went to Portage County. We never went out
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: to Atwater. He doesn't know where it is, and that's
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: not an answer that Ron Craig is willing to accept.
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: So what they do is they send him to a
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: child psychologist who then puts Butch, the 16-year-old kid, under
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: hypnosis in order to recover what they allege are repressed
• 19:21
  Speaker 6: memories of the murder. And so under hypnosis, they would
• 19:25
  Speaker 6: ask things like, when did the murder take place? And
• 19:27
  Speaker 6: Butch would say, well, it was not quite dark, but
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: it was not quite light. I don't know, maybe somewhere
• 19:32
  Speaker 6: in between. I just don't remember. And he would give
• 19:34
  Speaker 6: answers like that to every question. And even the psychologist
• 19:37
  Speaker 6: at the time said, if we keep this up, he's
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: just going to say false things to try and make
• 19:43
  Speaker 6: the investigators happy because he's so terrified. But it didn't
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: stop it. Right.
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: And I want to also mention that this... detective, Ron Craig,
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: made sure to separate Butch from his father. This detective
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: pressured young Butch Walcott relentlessly, lying directly to the kid.
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: That's right.
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: That he had hard evidence implicating him, including a witness
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: and DNA matches, right? So, you know, you can imagine
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: what's going on in this poor kid's brain. where it's
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: just getting completely scrambled. He's just giving these answers that
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: don't make any sense. And let us not forget that
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: the tape recorder was only turned on when Walcott finally
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: made statements that had been fed to him that were
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: consistent with what they wanted to hear, right? That was
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: when he implicated the subject of our show today, Tyrone Knolling.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: And then Craig turned to one of the other kids, D. Alessandro,
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: who said he knew nothing about the murderers. But his
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: own attorney convinced him and his family that he should
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: plea bargain to avoid the electric chair.
• 20:41
  Speaker 6: That's right. Yeah, I mean, once they can get Butch
• 20:44
  Speaker 6: Wolcott to come up with this story, the rest sort
• 20:48
  Speaker 6: of fall in line. At that point, they don't need
• 20:50
  Speaker 6: to go any further. Tyrone's the main target, and he's
• 20:53
  Speaker 6: indicted for aggravated murder with capital specifications. Okay.
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: In addition to the other guys, St. Clair pled guilty
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: to the Hardick murders as well, right? He had given
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: in to pressure from Detective Craig. as well as his
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: own attorneys and his family. And he was understandably scared
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: out of his mind about the death penalty. And then
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: Tyrone Knolling is indicted initially for the murders in 1993.
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: But this is when things get even weirder. In June 1993,
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: the court entered a null pros, which means that the
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: prosecutor or plaintiff states that they will no longer pursue
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: the matter. So they dismissed the case. The whole thing
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: should have wrapped up right there. That should have been it.
• 21:37
  Speaker 6: Well, that's right. And the reason that the case was
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: initially dismissed was that almost as soon as they had
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: made the deals, both Joey D'Alessandro and Gary St. Clair
• 21:48
  Speaker 6: started taking them back. You know, it's one thing under
• 21:51
  Speaker 6: a lot of pressure, under threats with deals being offered,
• 21:54
  Speaker 6: to sort of agree to it in the abstract under
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: that very immediate pressure. But as the court date actually approached,
• 22:01
  Speaker 6: D'Alessandro recanted. asserted their innocence. We had nothing to do
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: with this. And Gary St. Clair recanted in a prison interview, said,
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: we lied, we were pressured, we had nothing to do
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: with this. And at that point, I think the state
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: had no choice but to agree to dismiss the case.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: And Tyrone, this all has to be so crazy because
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: you have your friends, these guys you've known most of
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: your life saying things about this crime that you know
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: you weren't a part of, but you're indicted for it.
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: And Then they dropped the charges.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: You know, when they dropped charges against me, I didn't
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: see it coming. They offered a deal.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: I took a lie detector test and it was placed
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: on the prosecutor's desk on that Friday. By Monday, they
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: were rushing me in the back of a courtroom with
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: a judge saying, you know, you need to cop out.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: I don't want to sentence you to death. And I'm
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: pleading with them back there and I'm telling them I
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: didn't do this. And so they send me back and
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I'm talking to my dad on the phone and crying
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: and I'm saying, I don't know what to do.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: And my dad says, did you do this? And I said, no.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: And he just said, well, then you stick to your guns.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: And that's what I did, even though I knew the
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: odds were against me. So the next day I go
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: back into the courtroom and I stand up and the
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: judge says the prosecutor wants to say something and he
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: dismisses every charge against me.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: And I can't even explain the feeling at that point.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I was happy. I wanted to cry. I wanted to yell.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to get out of there.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: I can't even imagine to have them trying to get
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: you to take a deal while they know their case
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: is falling apart, but they're still trying to force you
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: into it with the very real threat of death, of
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: the death penalty, and then to just drop it. It's
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: like you get dizzy from this, right? So what happened next?
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: For three years almost, I didn't hear nothing.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, a new prosecutor comes
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: in and Now they got Joey back on board once
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: he realizes all the time he's about to do on
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: other charges and decides that he's just going to make
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: up some stuff and remembers everything they want him to say.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm being charged again. The nightmare happens once again.
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: Brian, what Tyrone is talking about here with the election
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: of the new prosecutor in Portage County and Joey D'Alessandro
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: coming back on, what's going on there?
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: Well, Joey at that point had been serving time on
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: an unrelated charge and was sort of unhappy with his
• 24:26
  Speaker 6: circumstances and his sentence. He reached back out and explored
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: the option of what would happen if he did go
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: back on his recantation and agree to cooperate, which he
• 24:36
  Speaker 6: ultimately agreed to do. That is what caused the state
• 24:41
  Speaker 6: to re-indict Tyrone Noling. And now with both Butch and
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: Joey D'Alessandro, they were ready to re-prosecute the case.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: Because So Tyrone's trial begins in January of 1996, six
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: years after the crime, right? So Walcott, D'Alessandro, and St.
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: Clair were called as prosecution witnesses, but the former two
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: boys gave testimonies that were very inconsistent, unsignificant details, but
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: they nevertheless supported the state's narrative. They said that after
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: the second robbery in their Alliance, Ohio neighborhood, all four
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: boys allegedly drove to Atwater, where Tyrone allegedly chose the
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: house to rob. Once they were at the Harding house,
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: D'Alessandro or Walcott said they waited in the car while
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: Nolan and St. Clair allegedly went to the front door.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: Sometime later, according to Walcott and D'Alessandro, Nolan and St.
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: Clair came running from the Harding house and got back
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: into the car. D'Alessandro testified that he allegedly smelled smoke
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: coming from Nolan's gun and that Walcott said he saw
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: the gun smoking. They also said that Nolan confessed to them.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: So Tyrone, you're at trial and you see your friends,
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: they're telling these crazy lies. Can you take us back
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: to that moment?
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: It was unbelievable.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: I've known these guys for all my life and for
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: them just to disregard my life and just sit up
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: there and they couldn't even look me in the face.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: They just kept their eyes on the prosecutor and I
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: wanted to get up and scream.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: I wanted to ask him, why are you doing this?
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: And so D'Alessandro and Walcott are saying these things, but St.
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: Clair decides not to lie for the state anymore. He
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: recanted his statement before trial and again, courageously did it
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: again on the stand. He denied going to Atwater and
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: committing the murders. And then he was declared a hostile witness.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: And get this, the state read the entirety of his
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: prior statement to the jury and which when I was
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: reading about this case, I was like, how can that,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: even for me, that seems beyond the pale. So, Brian,
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: what did the defense attorney say? I mean, what about
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: the other suspect?
• 26:56
  Speaker 6: Well, all of these plausible and I think likely alternate
• 26:59
  Speaker 6: suspects who the police had originally investigated and who the
• 27:03
  Speaker 6: police hadn't really excluded, none of those names came up
• 27:08
  Speaker 6: during Tyrone's original trial.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: And.
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: It's plausible to believe that it's because that information wasn't
• 27:16
  Speaker 6: turned over to the defense at the time of trial.
• 27:19
  Speaker 6: There was only one theory ever presented to the jury
• 27:22
  Speaker 6: about who committed the crime. And there were problems with
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: that theory. There were holes in that theory. You remember the.
• 27:27
  Speaker 6: 25 caliber gun that Tyrone and his friends had taken
• 27:30
  Speaker 6: in the prior robbery was still excluded. It was not
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: the murder weapon. And so they just had to come
• 27:35
  Speaker 6: up with another story about how they must have had
• 27:37
  Speaker 6: a second. 25 caliber gun. And they must have picked
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: it up somewhere. And then they got rid of it somewhere.
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: And there were things about this that didn't make sense.
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: But I think the community was still really hurt and
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: outraged by this murder. And they were only really given
• 27:55
  Speaker 6: one theory as to what happened. And despite the problems
• 27:58
  Speaker 6: in that theory, he was convicted.
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: So Tyrone, when the jury went out to deliberate, did
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: you have any hope at all that things were going
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: to go in your favor?
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I always stayed optimistic, even though I knew the cards
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: were stacked against me. And I kind of remember when
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: they came and got me from the county jail, they
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: was taking me up the steps and they were lined
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: up with deputy sheriffs all the way up.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: And that had never happened before. So my heart just
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: sank at that point.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: And I remember being in the courtroom and the jury
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: coming in.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: And one of the young ladies that was a juror,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: she sat down and she looked at me and she
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: started crying. And I knew it was over then. I
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: was scared to death.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: I'm about to go someplace that they say is the
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: worst of the worst. You're sentenced to death. You're sentenced
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: to die. People that have committed heinous crimes. I mean,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: I'm still a young man. I don't know what to expect.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: And I have no choice because they're going to take
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: me regardless.
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: So you have a good team of attorneys filing post-conviction motions,
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: but they were all denied. And it's important to mention
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: here that all of the prosecution's witnesses, all of them, Walcott, D'Alessandro,
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: and St. Clair, every single one of them has since
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: recanted their testimonies. Right? Then in 2006, the Ohio Innocence
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: Project took on your case. Can you tell us how
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: that came about?
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Well, my investigator, Vicki Buckwalter was hired on and she
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: stayed with me after my conviction because she could not
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: believe what happened. She helped me contact people, write letters,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: and we contacted the Innocence Project. It was kind of
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: weird because Mark Godsey showed up with a couple of
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: students and I thought I was just going there for
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: an attorney visit. I told him I thought he had
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: the wrong room. And then he proceeded to tell me
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: who he was. And I just sat down and I
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: felt a weight off my shoulders to finally, finally, someone's
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: going to help me. I have a lot of respect
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: and gratitude for them.
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: And in those ensuing 15 years, bringing us right up
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: to the present day, they found a ton of stuff
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: that made it seem like the doors of the prison
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: should have sprung open by now. And you should have
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: walked free right out into the sunshine. But of course you,
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: we know that that's not how the justice system works
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: in Ohio or, unfortunately, in the rest of our country. So, Brian,
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: can you tell us what the Ohio Innocence Project has
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: been doing to fight this case?
• 30:39
  Speaker 6: Originally, the Ohio Innocence Project was representing Tyrone just for
• 30:43
  Speaker 6: the purposes of trying to get DNA testing. There are
• 30:45
  Speaker 6: a few things that we know 100% were last touched
• 30:49
  Speaker 6: by the person who committed the crime, and that is
• 30:52
  Speaker 6: the 10 shell casings that were found at the scene
• 30:55
  Speaker 6: and the ring boxes and other items that the perpetrator
• 30:58
  Speaker 6: had rifled through after the crime or during the crime.
• 31:02
  Speaker 6: DNA technology today is sensitive enough to develop a profile
• 31:06
  Speaker 6: from even just a few human cells. And so the
• 31:10
  Speaker 6: hope was that if we were able to conduct DNA
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: testing on those items, that you would develop a clear profile.
• 31:18
  Speaker 6: And if that profile does not match Tyrone Noling's or
• 31:21
  Speaker 6: any one of his co-defendants, that's going to be very,
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: very strong evidence of his innocence. Unfortunately, we're not able
• 31:27
  Speaker 6: to convince a court to allow us to conduct that
• 31:30
  Speaker 6: DNA testing. And so to this day, that evidence has
• 31:33
  Speaker 6: not been tested. In the meantime, Tyrone's other attorneys had
• 31:36
  Speaker 6: filed a motion for new trial based on very specific
• 31:41
  Speaker 6: pieces of evidence that were uncovered at the end of
• 31:45
  Speaker 6: the original investigation by the Sheriff's Department specifically. First of all,
• 31:49
  Speaker 6: the Nathan Chesley tip, that was uncovered in Tyrone's co-defendant's files. Secondly,
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: the statement by Marlene Van Steenburg that the gun that
• 31:58
  Speaker 6: had been eliminated from Dennis Van Steenburg was not the
• 32:00
  Speaker 6: actual gun that he had on the night that the
• 32:02
  Speaker 6: murder may have taken place. And finally, it had been
• 32:04
  Speaker 6: known at the time that police had excluded Tyrone and
• 32:09
  Speaker 6: his friends from the cigarette butt using DNA testing. but
• 32:12
  Speaker 6: they had been concerned enough about Dan Wilson as a
• 32:15
  Speaker 6: suspect that they had tested Dan Wilson against that cigarette butt,
• 32:20
  Speaker 6: and he was not able to be excluded using prior
• 32:23
  Speaker 6: primitive technology. That was not turned over, we believe, to
• 32:27
  Speaker 6: the defense at the time of the original trial either. Now,
• 32:30
  Speaker 6: here today, we are still waiting for an opportunity to
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: fully examine the prosecutor's files, to fully examine the sheriff's files,
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: to try to see what if anything, was in these
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: files that was subject to disclosure back at the original
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: trial in 1995-1996.
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: Since we last spoke, Brian Howe and the Ohio Witnesses
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: Project have been fighting Tyrone's case by trying to prove
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: that compelling leads and evidence had been concealed from the
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: defense at trial, specifically the insurance salesman Lehman, the Nathan
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: Chesley tip, Marlene Van Steenburg, and Dennis Van Steenburg's actual gun.
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: and the fact that primitive DNA testing had excluded Tyrone
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: and his friends from the cigarette butt. Yet, an alternative suspect,
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: Dan Wilson, was not excluded by its serology. All of
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: this can be cleared up by access to the state's
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: file on this case, and with a procedural rule from
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: the Ohio Supreme Court, Rule 42, that took effect in 2017,
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: broad access to those files shall be granted in the
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: review of a capital case. And shortly after the original
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: release of this episode, there was an exciting development.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:37
  Speaker 6: So in March of 2022, the 11th District Court of
• 33:41
  Speaker 6: Appeals did order that Tyrone be given access to the
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: state's file. We are today discussing with the state how
• 33:49
  Speaker 6: to move forward on the Rule 42 access. Specifically, there's
• 33:52
  Speaker 6: an issue about the extent to which the defense expert
• 33:55
  Speaker 6: is going to have access to the state's file.
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: So it's taken a year and a half of pushback
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: from the state to decide the conditions of the release
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: of these documents?
• 34:02
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think really more importantly, these requests were
• 34:05
  Speaker 6: in years ago. And in fact, the original remand order
• 34:08
  Speaker 6: that said the prosecutor's file should be turned over, I mean,
• 34:10
  Speaker 6: that was from 2014. It's, I think, frustrating how long
• 34:16
  Speaker 6: the process has taken. What he's asking for couldn't be
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: more reasonable. I mean, he's asking for documents that the
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: state says that they've already turned over to him once.
• 34:26
  Speaker 6: All of that being said, I mean, the state has
• 34:28
  Speaker 6: agreed to now cooperate and move forward with at least
• 34:32
  Speaker 6: part of the access that was requested and ordered by
• 34:34
  Speaker 6: the 11th District. So I think, you know, we're at
• 34:36
  Speaker 6: a stage now where progress is happening.
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: And maybe the pushback on the progress is telling. Because
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: if the state had turned over everything at the time
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: of trial, then why bother with the feet dragging here? Meanwhile,
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: he continues to sit on death row for a crime
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: for which DNA testing had excluded him and his friends.
• 34:52
  Speaker 6: They tested the cigarette butt. originally at the time of trial,
• 34:56
  Speaker 6: and Tyrone and all of his co-defendants were excluded from
• 34:59
  Speaker 6: the cigarette butt. They knew at the time that Dan
• 35:02
  Speaker 6: Wilson was a possible contributor, at least had a consistent
• 35:05
  Speaker 6: blood type, and decided not, apparently, to seek additional testing
• 35:10
  Speaker 6: with him at the time of trial. And we believe
• 35:13
  Speaker 6: the idea that Dan Wilson was even a possible contributor
• 35:16
  Speaker 6: to the saliva on the cigarette butt was covered up,
• 35:19
  Speaker 6: or at least not disclosed to Tyrone's defense attorneys at
• 35:21
  Speaker 6: the time of trial.
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: How this even went to trial, let alone continues, is
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: totally beyond me. The only evidence against him were the
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: coerced words of his co-defendants, who were fearing for their
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: own lives in the face of the death penalty. And, yep,
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: you guessed it, all of those guys have since recanted.
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: While this battle for clarity about this wrongful conviction rages on,
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: we will return now to the episode as it ended
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: in December 2021, with Tyrone still in the same freaking cell.
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: as we continue to hope against hope that Brian and
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: the Ohio Innocence Project's efforts win Tyrone a new trial.
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: If he were to get a fair trial today with
• 36:05
  Speaker 6: all of the evidence that we know in front of
• 36:07
  Speaker 6: a jury, there's no chance that he would be convicted.
• 36:11
  Speaker 6: And to be in a world where this is all
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: sort of continuing to happen, it's continuing to advance in
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: slow motion, I mean, it's surreal. Certainly, Our hope is
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: that he is successful in his current post-conviction litigation, that
• 36:27
  Speaker 6: we're able to put this evidence finally in front of
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: a jury and give him a fair day in court.
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: Amen to that. And Tyrone, for our audience listening today,
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: for someone who wants to see you have that fair shot,
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: which I'm sure everyone in our audience does, and who
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: wants to help and to get involved with righting this wrong,
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: is there something that you'd like to ask them to do.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: I would encourage them to reach out to our governor,
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: to reach out to state and local politicians.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: I would ask them to be a voice.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Somebody out there knows something and they can go to
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: TyroneNoling.com or they can get a hold of the Cincinnati
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Innocence Project if they're willing to help or to be
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: a voice because I need a voice.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I need that more than anything.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll definitely have TyroneNoling.com linked in our bio. So
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: please go there and learn what steps you can take
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: to help. And I also want to mention there's a
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: TV docuseries called Death Row Stories that did a piece
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: on this case last year called The Lost Boy, which
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: shows a very powerful case for the actual innocence of Tyrone.
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: And with that, we turn now. to Closing Arguments. This
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: is the part of our show where I thank you,
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: Tyrone Noling, for just being with us today, sharing your story,
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: and also Brian Howe for fighting tirelessly. So again, thank
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: you for doing what you're doing and for being here
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: and sharing this awful story with our audience. And now
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: Closing Arguments works just like this. I'll kick back in
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: my chair, turn my microphone off, leave my headphones on,
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: close my eyes, and just listen to any final thoughts
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: you want to share. So Brian Howe, Why don't you
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: go first and we'll save the best for last. And that's,
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: of course, that's you, Tyrone. So, Brian, closing arguments.
• 38:10
  Speaker 6: Well, you know, first let me thank you, Jason, for
• 38:12
  Speaker 6: what you all are doing here. As surreal as it
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: sometimes seems that this is still happening, it feels good
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: to know that people care, that people are paying attention.
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: It feels good to know that there are people who
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: care about what's happening in this case and what's happening
• 38:27
  Speaker 6: to Tyrone. Again, our hope is... that people understand what's happening,
• 38:33
  Speaker 6: that Tyrone get a fair day in court. And the
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: other thing is that the fact that Tyrone is innocent,
• 38:39
  Speaker 6: which I'm personally 100% convinced of, I'm not familiar with
• 38:43
  Speaker 6: every death row case in the country, but I wouldn't
• 38:46
  Speaker 6: be surprised if he were the strongest case of innocence
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: of anyone currently on death row. That means that there's
• 38:51
  Speaker 6: someone who is responsible for this crime that was never
• 38:56
  Speaker 6: brought to justice. And it means that there could be
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: someone out there right now who knows something that may have,
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: for whatever reason, not wanted to come forward, not wanted
• 39:05
  Speaker 6: to get involved. I really, truly hope that that person
• 39:09
  Speaker 6: is out there and that they will reach out and
• 39:12
  Speaker 6: come forward with any information that they might have about
• 39:14
  Speaker 6: the Harding murders. There is a man's life on the line,
• 39:17
  Speaker 6: an innocent man. And if people have information, I truly,
• 39:22
  Speaker 6: truly hope that they'll come forward with it and allow
• 39:25
  Speaker 6: it to be raised and.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Brought before the court.
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: And now over to you, Tyrone.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Well, I would like to first thank you. And again,
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: I think the most important thing here is a voice.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: I'm an innocent person on Ohio's death row and I
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: don't belong here and I need help.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Now's the time.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: This is difficult. It's difficult cleaning for your life, especially
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: when you haven't been heard for a long time. So
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: I would just like to thank everybody and to encourage
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: them again to look into my case, to get involved,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: to be a voice for me and to.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Help me get out of here because I'm innocent. I
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: don't want to be here.
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: So please.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: thank our production team, Conor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Clyburn,
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: and Kevin Wardus, with research by Lila Robinson. The music
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: in this production was supplied by three-time Oscar-nominated composer J. Ralph.
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: Wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good on
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: all three platforms. You can also follow me on both
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason Flom. Wrongful Conviction is
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: a production of Lava for Good Podcast in association with
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: Signal Company No. 1.