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65: Kreature of Habit w/ Michael Chernow · Harder Than Life

• 0:00
  This episode is sponsored by National Technology Management. Visit trustntm.com for more information. I'm Kelly Siegel and this is Harder Than Life, a podcast about self-love, self-awareness, business, and health. We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple, practical advice you can start using today. Let's get living.
• 0:21
  I absolutely love what I do because I have access to beautiful souls such as today's guest, Michael Chernow. I have been a fan of his for a long time, while having devoured his Creatures of Habit meals on the regular. During show prep, I learned he's a serial entrepreneur and has two restaurants, aptly named The Meatball Shop and Seymour's. He also hosts the Creatures of Habit podcast as a husband, father, coach, and is able to leap tall buildings in a single bounce. If you are not...
• 0:51
  following this sober sensational winning warrior i suggest you do immediately he is at michael chernow finally we meet welcome to the heart of life podcast my brother from another mother what up i you know i stole my first question i put here seriously how handsome are you now that we're on the air
• 1:10
  Tell me the name, dude, I died when I was doing show prep and the names of your restaurants are Meatball and Seymour. Because us being workout guys, we get called a meatball all the time. And then if you're in sales and you've ever read the book, Sell and DeVito, there's a person called a Seymour. So Meatball and Seymour are so synonymous with my life. I died. You still own these things?
• 1:39
  Yeah, so I founded my first business. I opened when I was 28 years old called The Meatball Shop in New York City. Lower East Side, I've been working in restaurants from 12 to 28. I literally quit my job at the restaurant that I was working at for almost eight years before I opened up Meatball Shop, a week before I opened the restaurant. So I quit the restaurant job. I opened up my first restaurant and it took off.
• 2:08
  like fucking, I mean, am I, am I on this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Took off like wildfire. I mean, it was insane. And we did not anticipate it, although it was a dream. I quickly scaled that business to six restaurants over about three and a half years.
• 2:27
  At that point, I wanted to see if I had what it took to open up a second restaurant concept. And I was deeply interested in the world of sustainable seafood. And I wanted to open up a second concept. Yeah.
• 2:41
  I came up with the name Seymour's as a second restaurant for the seafood spot. I opened that up in 2015 and I did the exact same thing. I scaled that to six, seven units. And so over the course of my restaurateur career, I've opened 14 restaurants, you know, a bunch of restaurants.
• 3:00
  stores in New York city. And then a few pop-ups one out in Montauk and one out in, in, in Connecticut. Um, but yeah, man, it's been, it's been a journey and, and the, and the names meatball shop was basically born because I, I came up with this idea to, uh,
• 3:18
  You can make meatballs out of anything. And I wanted to be able to simplify a fun way to choose your own adventure in a restaurant. You know, I'm a healthy guy. You're a healthy guy.
• 3:34
  when you go to restaurants, it sucks to be like, I want this, but hold that. I want that, but I don't want this side. And so with the meatball shop, you could literally order the meat, the protein that you want. You can order the sauce that you want on that protein. You can order...
• 3:49
  We had seven starch sides and seven veg sides. So you can order all of your vegetables or your starches sides individually. And you can make this meal that was like protein, starch, veg, like totally customizable in a really fun way. So I like kind of like,
• 4:07
  It was my way of saying, hey, like, I don't want to open up this healthy restaurant. I want to open up a meatball spot that you can have spaghetti and meatballs with Parmesan cheese and butter if you wanted to. But you can also have gluten-free chicken meatballs with pesto sauce, a side of broccoli, and a side of spinach. And that's basically the meatball shop, and that's why it works so well. Super customizable, super fun, really cool vibe in there. And then, of course, the Seymour's restaurant, you know, I was trying to come up with a creative name.
• 4:37
  And I was like, well, let's eat from the sea more. And I put those two words together. And I was like, Seymour, Seymour is kind of like this endearing dude, you know, like Grandpa Seymour. So let's let's I just kind of sat with me and it sat well with me. So that's what I named the restaurant. It reminds me of Seymour Butts. I don't know. What can I say? Are all of them all the meatball shops in New York?
• 5:03
  Yeah, so the meatball shops, unfortunately, have now dwindled down to just one because the pandemic had completely ravaged that business really, really hard in New York City, even still to this day right now after the pandemic, with just the behavior changes in everybody. But meatball shop had seven and two.
• 5:25
  It is now down to one store that's killing it, which is great. But yeah, it got it got it got slammed in Hell's Kitchen. And Seymour's has seven stores now. And, and two of them are out of market. One of them is in Arlington, Virginia, and one of them is in Darien, Connecticut.
• 5:44
  So next time I'm in New York, I was just there last weekend and I will stop because you just made me hungry. Because most people don't realize that eating healthy, it's not hard, but it's not easy. At the end of the day, I just when you work out like you and I do, I need meat. I cannot get enough protein in my body fast enough. And when I see meatballs on the menu, I don't care where I'm at. I'm ordering them. So that's my kind of place.
• 6:10
  Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing is, so I sold a bunch of equity in both of those businesses, you know, pre-pandemic. In 2014, I sold a bunch of equity at Meatball Shop. 2019, I sold a bunch of equity at Seymour's. I still own just under 10% of both of those businesses. But my number one focus right now is in my lifestyle wellness brand, Creatures of Habit, which is, you know, we make like a super high protein overnight oatmeal packed with all sorts of great,
• 6:38
  ingredients and vitamins like D3 and omega threes and a probiotic digestive enzymes. So like meal one really does cover everything from the high protein diet protocol, which I believe is the protocol for longevity and health and strength, all the way to gut health. And it's fucking delicious. And it's killing it's kicking ass. So like, you know, in the in the in the fitness space, specifically, a classic thing that people that you know, are active and lift weights and do these things is, you know,
• 7:07
  is you take a couple of scoops of protein and you put in your oatmeal. I mean, that's been, you know, that's been a meal for me for literally almost 20 years. And we can go into that story if you want. But when I knew that like brick and mortar retail business was not something I was going to do coming out of the pandemic or once the pandemic hit, I decided that I needed to do something in the world of digital marketing.
• 7:32
  And that's when I took my number one favorite meal of the day, which is my protein oatmeal and made a brand out of it. And it's spelled creatures with a K. So it's creatures of habit on all social media channels. It is delicious. I went away from it for a little while.
• 7:51
  But now you've done these little packages where you've done, you send, you've made it much easier and no pun intended, easily digestible or easily consumable for you to get it. It's delicious. And I actually followed your advice and made it the night before and put it in the freezer. It's delicious. So how I, you said the protein scoops and I laughed. You know what I do? I put peanut butter in it.
• 8:16
  I just, you know, I gotta have a little bit of sweet. Cause as you know, fellow sober brother, you know, I need sugar and I used to get sugar from alcohol. And now I try not to get it from sweets, but man, if you can get it from, from protein, like any protein bars or, or peanut butter, you know, so meal one is definitely got a perfect balance of salt and sweet. Like there's, there's a fair amount of,
• 8:44
  pink Himalayan salt in there for electrolytes and sodium, but we definitely make sure to sweeten it with monk fruit. And so it's kind of like, I mean, I hate to say this, but it's kind of like
• 8:56
  A little bit like a dessert for breakfast. It's just, it's freaking delicious. It's really, really good. I said it in the opening. It's delicious because now you made me remind me. I'm launching a health and fitness app and we got to get you guys in there as well. We're working with First Form and Clean Eats and FroPro and we got to get you in there because we don't have anything for breakfast. So you are sober and ripped. How long have you been not drinking? It's like 17 years now?
• 9:24
  I celebrated 19 years in August. Congratulations, brother. 19 years. I'm coming up on five. It's a cheat code. You know, I know we're going to get into your story, but it...
• 9:35
  It's a cheat code. I had all these aches and pains, and a year after I quit, all of a sudden, all the aches and pains went away. I thought it was because I was just old and been training for so many years. It went away. So I just highly recommend that people put down the naughty water for at least 90 days and see what happens. What projects or initiatives are you currently working on and excited about besides the Creatures of Habit? Or is there something in the Creatures of Habit that you are working on? I just saw your social media. You were doing...
• 10:03
  some, um, charity, charitable thing in New York city. I didn't know about it or else I would have showed up. Um, what's, what's coming up? Yeah. So I, uh, I've partnered with a, a foundation called the release recovery foundation, which is, uh, uh, essentially a, a, a nonprofit organization.
• 10:25
  organization that raises money to sponsor addicts that are ready to go into treatment, but don't have the capital or funds to do it and helps them find treatment and takes care of it. And so I thought that was just an awesome thing.
• 10:41
  an awesome partnership for Creatures of Habit. I mean, obviously for me personally, like I'm deeply invested in trying to help people find their way into sobriety because without it, I'm not sitting here, you know, talking to you right now. I don't have the house and the family and the kids that love me and I love back. And I don't have any of the shit that I put together without sobriety. And so I believe, you know, when you can get an addict off the street and into treatment or into AA or whatever,
• 11:10
  you know, whatever works for them and have them stick with it, the sky's the limit what that person is capable of doing. Really, you know, like addicts tend to be extreme humans and some of the most successful people in the world. Right. Like some of the most successful people in the world have come from the depths of addiction and change their lives. So.
• 11:31
  I am a massive advocate for helping people find their way into recovery. And Release Recovery Foundation is an amazing opportunity and avenue for me to be of service there. And so what I did was I partnered with a brand called GORUCK, which is a fitness company. They make
• 11:51
  These it's military run. They make these backpacks and weight vests that you can you can just add to your to your 10,000 steps a day. So you kind of if you go out for a long walk, you throw on a rucksack, you throw on a weight vest, and you're just adding weight to that, which enhances the fitness.
• 12:08
  Um, and it's kind of like what they do in the military, right? Like all these guys, they, they, they walk around with, you know, they, they take these long walks with, with a heavy, heavy, with all this gear on their body. And it just keeps them in great shape. And it just keeps that zone two cardio going. And so I love go rock and I partnered with them and we did a custom collaborated creatures of habit, go rock weight vest thing is fucking sick. And, uh, I, when I was getting sober, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was,
• 12:36
  fitness was a massive part of my story. Massive. Like I can honestly say to you today, I don't know if I would, if I would have been able to stay sober as long as I have without fitness and nutrition being a cornerstone foundation in my, in my sobriety daily. So I got introduced to it very, very early on in my, you know, in my recovery story. And, and when I, you know, I
• 13:04
  I would run over the Williamsburg Bridge, down to the Brooklyn Bridge, over the Brooklyn Bridge, back over the Manhattan Bridge, back up to the Williamsburg Bridge, and over the Williamsburg Bridge. And that was my route. It was like an eight and a half mile run that I would do probably two to three days a week. And when I was thinking about a way to raise money for addicts, ushering them into treatment, I was like the bridges.
• 13:31
  you know, a bridge to a new life. I would love to get as many people as I can wearing these weight vests and walking over all these bridges that mean a lot to me because it sort of memorialized what I did coming into my recovery, but also it has this symbol of like bridge back to life. And so we did it, man. I put it together. We raised over 70,000 bucks on Saturday, October 14th.
• 14:01
  And we're going to be able to put at least 10 addicts that would never be able to afford treatment into treatment and potentially save their lives. So that's something that is ongoing. And we're going to really be able to tell some amazing stories and highlight some of the people that we help and tell their story so that that can potentially motivate more people to want to get sober and change their lives. And so that's a big thing that's going on for me.
• 14:31
  And then, of course, Creatures of Habit, man. I'm like head down on this thing. I believe in this brand with every cell in my body. This brand has given me an opportunity to really tell my story. And it's just opened up doors that I only hoped would open, but I didn't know would be possible so quickly. I mean, we've only been doing it for about two years and it's going really well.
• 14:54
  I can't believe I'm looking through all my show prep questions to fall back on. And I didn't have any major sobriety questions. So I'm going to deviate because you went there and I want to hear because heart and life's all about it, man. Being facing your fears to live your dreams. So what, um, what made you, what, what, why did you drink?
• 15:15
  Uh, why did I drink? You know, it's interesting. I, well, I had a, and this is not to victimize myself in any way, but I had a really traumatic childhood, right? I had a, you know, my household was really fucked up. My father was insanely abusive, physically, verbally, emotionally. Um, and, uh, because of that, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I
• 15:44
  I was an escape artist. You know, I wanted to, I wanted to escape at every opportunity from a very young age. I wanted to sleep at my friend's houses. I remember, you know, being in first or second grade at this kid, Ross Delafield's house. I remember this specific map, you know, I've got this memory pretty like locked into my mind. And I remember sitting there and thinking to myself, man, I gotta, I've gotta make sure that Ross's parents really liked me. Um,
• 16:10
  so that they let me sleep over here as much as possible. You know, and so me being like strategic at that young age, trying to get parents to like me so that I can sleep at their house. I had a sports coach who knew my situation and totally took advantage of it and molested me, along with a bunch of other kids. So that was another sort of traumatic part of my life that I think ultimately led me to want to escape even more
• 16:38
  you know, coming into my adolescence because I felt shame around that. So there was a lot of trauma, man. And, you know, I probably started smoking cigarettes in sixth grade at 11. And the summer of sixth grade to seventh grade is when I smoked weed for the first time. And, you know, going into by the time I was 13, I was a full blown drug addict. Selling drugs to my, you know, I was a young, I was a young,
• 17:09
  kid for my grade because my birthday is late in the year. So, you know, at the end of my freshman year of high school, I was basically like the drug dealer in New York City, which is like, you know, there was a lot of kids there. And so I was I figured out how to just like, I like stepped into this lifestyle of, of
• 17:33
  Of drug abuse. And I loved it, man. And honestly, I think it actually saved my life because when I was 12, it got really ugly with my father, really ugly. At that point, I was fighting back. I wasn't just like cowering in the corner. I was fighting back. So it became less an abusive situation and more of a violent situation between the two of us.
• 17:59
  And one day we got into such a bad fight and I felt like I was kind of, I mean, I remember sitting on, my sister and I shared a bedroom. We lived in a tiny little apartment. My sister and I shared a bedroom and I remember sitting on, my bed was on the floor, like kind of like my bed pulled out from underneath her bed and like sat, stayed on the floor and you can push it back in. Yeah.
• 18:26
  And I remember sitting on the bed on the floor and brutal fight with my father. And I said, that's it. I'm going to fucking, I got to do something drastic here. Either I'm going to attack him with a weapon or I'm going to kill myself right here. Or attempt to like get his attention. All I really wanted, I think, was my dad to tell me he loved me. And I'm a good kid. You know, everything's going to be all right.
• 18:54
  But anyway, he came into the room screaming at me. I said, you know, I was trying to convince him to come into the bedroom and he came into the room and then I just took a scissor and I just cut both my wrists right in front of him and I like put my wrists out. And I thought that he was gonna hug me, but he came in and he kicked my ass. And obviously I didn't cut my wrist deep enough to get, you know, to die. But when I went to school the next day,
• 19:23
  And I had already been in and out of the social. I mean, child services were basically involved in my situation at that point. The social worker called me in
• 19:31
  they called my mother in and they immediately took me to a mental institution, pain-winting mental institution, and had to have me evaluated for suicide, you know, for suicide prevention or whatever. And I convinced them that, you know, this was a cry for help. But at that point now, you know, we were under watch. Like there was child services at my house often.
• 19:57
  And, and I, and I, I barely stayed at home, you know, I like it took everything from my parents to keep me in the house and I and they couldn't. So by the time I was 15 years old, the child services were like, we're gonna put them in foster care. And I, at that point, I was like, already out on my own. I was like, never, never home. And so I was like, there's no chance. I'm out, you know, you're gonna have to find me.
• 20:19
  And I was running the streets and I ran the streets and I did, you know, I would go from couch to couch. And, you know, I stayed in school. I always had a job, a legit job in either a nightclub or a restaurant. I mean, I was one of these kids that like was like bar backing at like the hottest nightclub at like 15 years old, you know, and also selling drugs and doing drugs and just a New York City crazy kid.
• 20:43
  But I don't regret a second of it. I actually think that drugs in the early days, the drugs and the alcohol for me saved me. It was a fucking lot of fun, actually. I think I needed that. I needed to go through. I needed to, you know, and I don't recommend this for anybody, but at that age, chances are, had I not found it,
• 21:12
  maybe I would have killed myself because of how bad it was and how ugly the situation was. My mother, who I love, my mother was also abused. My mom was actually diagnosed with something called abused wife syndrome, where she really just makes the abnormal normal in her mind to cope with what's going on. And so my mom was terrified to leave him because she thought he was going to kill her.
• 21:42
  I mean, that's how sick the situation is. You know, like when I, my mother still like, she's, she's totally, um, being, being married to my father, I think has kind of destroyed her self-confidence for life because of how bad it was for her. And, uh,
• 22:06
  She still asks me to this day, what did I do wrong? She wants my approval. And it's sad. You know what I mean? It's sad. It's tough. We have a tough relationship. Because I have a hard time being like, how could you have not taken me out of that situation as a kid? But it's tough. It's tough, man. It's the dynamics, right? You're never...
• 22:30
  Anyway, so you asked me, why did I drink? So I think like a lot of that stuff really, really, you know, I used to think that anybody could be anybody could be born with this thing, alcoholism, right? And I'm sure that there is some level of science behind it. But I would argue to say that most people that are alcoholics or addicts have alcoholics
• 22:55
  a pretty significant level of trauma in their life that they're trying to escape from. And, but on the flip side of it, you know, if you think about like,
• 23:08
  again, some of the most successful people, some of the most elite, you know, the most elite military special forces, like the people that push themselves really, really hard have dealt with a pretty severe level of adversity. Right. Like it is just it's not news. And so I kind of lived my life like that for a while. And, you know, I graduated high school.
• 23:34
  I got into a lot of trouble. I mean, I was, you know, I got, when I was 19 years old, I had an apartment in the Lower East Side and, not in the Lower East Side, in the deep East Village, what we used to call Alphabet City. And I remember, you know, I got...
• 23:53
  you know, these guys broke into my apartment. I was selling lots of drugs. They broke into my apartment, you know, guns in my face, guns in my mouth, pistol whip. I had a friend there who really didn't know what was going on, you know, duct tape, tied up, thrown into the bathtub. I thought they were going to fucking shoot me. You know, and I, and I, and I,
• 24:15
  I thought it was the wrong neighborhood. I was like, oh man, I'm in the wrong fucking neighborhood. Like I got set up. I didn't think, oh my God, this is my, this is my addiction. That's, that's, that's, you know, I was like, I got to move. I got to move out of this neighborhood. Um, anyway, anyway,
• 24:32
  Long story short, I overdosed on heroin when I was 23 years old, July of 2004. And I thought that that was the end. I was like, this is too much. I've been doing this for over a decade. I saw my life flash before my eyes. Like, I can't do this anymore. This is it. This is the final straw. And about four hours after that, I was doing it again. And so that's when I kind of made a decision that I was just going to
• 25:02
  die. I was just going to do it until I just actually overdosed and died or someone killed me or, you know, I got into too much trouble and, you know, whatever, something bad, catastrophic was going to happen. But I didn't think that I had the power or the strength to get sober. And then one morning, August 2nd, I...
• 25:26
  August 1st, the morning of August 1st, I blacked out. I'd been up for days. I blacked out. I wanted to kill myself before I blacked out. I do remember that. And that's like crazy to think. Like I wanted to kill myself all the time.
• 25:39
  Like at the end there, I was fighting constantly. I was getting into fistfights. I was 86 from every single bar, south of Houston, north of Delancey, east of Allen and west of Essex. There was a whole chunk of New York City that I couldn't even go into because of how bad I was in terms of my anger. And I wanted to die. I looked at myself in the mirror, I remember. And I said, I hate you so much. I hate you more than anything in the world.
• 26:08
  And that was the conversations that I was having with myself.
• 26:12
  And then I blacked out. I woke up 16 hours later, I still had a job. I slept right through work. My boss who I love, who became a massive component of my change of what life means today. He took me aside after I came to work. I was like, dude, I'm getting sober. I'm getting sober, I'm sorry. He's like, you're fired, you're fired. Can't do this. I cannot watch you die on my dime. I can't watch you die on my dime.
• 26:41
  This is too much, dude. I know what you're doing. I know what you're doing. I can look, I see in your eyes, you're dying. You're dying. And I hear you're dying from other people. And I can't watch you do it. I begged him for my job. I said, Frank, I am getting sober. I promise you I'm getting sober. I know this is the time for me. Please give me another shot. And he said, you can come to this restaurant.
• 27:05
  at eight o'clock in the morning and clean it with the porters for 30 days. That's it. If I find out you have a sip of alcohol or a fucking single, anything that would, that would be considered a drug or alcohol. If I find out about it, you're fired. That's it. You're done. You got to get sober. You got to be here at eight o'clock in the morning, clean the restaurant. And that's what I did. And I called a friend who was like an older sister to me.
• 27:34
  when I was, you know, using years ago. And she used to take me in when I was down and out. And I knew that she was sober and she was dating a guy that was sober that I, that I kind of knew. And he showed up about an hour after I called her and I had this support system, like very quickly come and, and want to help me. And these, this guy, Marcus was a Muay Thai kickboxing dude.
• 27:58
  And I had no idea what Muay Thai kickboxing was, but I knew that it was I was like, that's cool. Like, you know, I thought getting sober was going to, you know, for me, it was going to be like hanging out with fucking old people in libraries. I thought I'd never was going to meet another woman, you know, that was attractive again. I thought I'd be like, you know, caught in a church basement and it just couldn't be more from the truth. I met some of the coolest people very, very quickly that really wanted to help me.
• 28:24
  And they introduced me to fitness, which was at that time Muay Thai kickboxing and nutrition. They taught me how to eat. And they basically wrote a life plan for me. And that life plan looked like this. You know, they, they, day one, they had me meet them at a, at a, at a sober meeting. Day two, they had, they had me meet them at a sober meeting and told me to bring some clothes that I can work out in. They took me right to the Muay Thai Academy after the meeting.
• 28:55
  And they sat me down and they said, look, dude, we're going to help you. And we're going to write a plan for you on paper that you're going to follow if you want to change your life. And it's simple. But you got to commit to it. And we're not going to chase you. The way the plan is going to go is you're going to wake up as early as you can in the morning, every morning. And you're going to roll out of bed and you're going to get on your knees and you're going to ask God for help.
• 29:23
  And we don't give a fuck if you believe in God or not. We don't give a fuck if you're religious or not. We want you to ask God for help. And the reason why we want to ask God for help is because, my friend, you do not know how to ask for help. You not asking for help has gotten you into this situation. So we want you to start asking for help. And then right after you get on your knees and ask for help, we want you to stand up and make your fucking bed. And then right after you make your bed, you're going to go into the bathroom. You're going to take a piss. You're going to brush your teeth. You're going to wash your face. You're going to put on your contact lenses. You're going to put on a pair of running shoes.
• 29:53
  And you're going to go for a walk or a run. It could be a block. It could be fucking 10 miles. But we want you to move your body first thing in the morning. Right after you get home from that, you're going to have a big bowl of oatmeal. Because we want you to start putting positive shit into your body that's easy and accessible. Right after you have that big bowl of oatmeal, you're going to go to an AA meeting.
• 30:13
  You're going to do that. And right after you go to that AA meeting, you're going to meet us here at the gym at 12 o'clock. And we're going to kick your fucking ass. And we're going to teach you how to be a man. And we're going to teach you about integrity, honesty, commitment, discipline, and how to get back up. And that's the most important one, how to get back up. You need to learn how to get back up.
• 30:33
  And and then right after you right after you train with us for a couple of hours, you're going to have a chicken and broccoli for lunch. You're going to go take a nap. You're going to have you're going to go to work in the evening. You're going to have chicken and broccoli for dinner. You're going to go to bed as early as possible. And you're going to rinse and repeat. And that's what I did. And I haven't had a drink since.
• 30:58
  And I've been living that life basically almost to a T from waking up early, hitting my knees, asking for help. I do a bunch more shit in the morning now. Having oatmeal in the morning with a bunch of things that I've now made a business out of. I have chicken and broccoli typically for lunch almost every day and some other protein and veggies and a little starch for dinner. And I go to bed as early as I can and wake up as early as I can. And my life is fucking awesome.
• 31:28
  and you know Murphy get out of there I got a puppy and yeah man I know that that was a long winded answer to your question but answered five or six questions I have more
• 31:47
  This is a very successful man, people. And he just was very vulnerable. So listen to that again. And there's no coincidences that I do all the same things. You just paralleled my life. Thank you. You matter. And I love what you're doing. And I love you even more now than after that. Is your father still alive? No. No.
• 32:16
  I love what you've said regarding you're grateful that it happened because I am too. If I didn't go through very similar circumstances, I can tell, I'm gonna call you out, you didn't read my book because you would have said something because my book, I sent you my book and you just basically paraphrased it. So you would have said, whoa, holy cow, how similar it is.
• 32:44
  The contrast that you know. I'm going to read your book now. What'd you say? I'm going to read your book now. Now you're going to read it. Literally. Right here. We are so similar. I'm going to read it. We are so similar. The contrast and the gratitude that you can feel from what we used to live in that chaos is.
• 33:09
  And I say this all the time. I have to be comfortable being comfortable because I've grown up in so much uncomfortability. And you said one thing in there that you just wanted your dad to hug you. My stepfather used to beat the shit out of me as a big boy. That's why I started working out. And I just wanted my mom to come in and save me. And she would sit and just let this shit happen.
• 33:36
  And it took so much. So I drank because the reason why the question, and you probably know the answer, but I want it for the listeners. The easiest way to quit drinking is to figure out why you drank and heal that. And you went real broad with the thing. Mine was very simple. I wanted my mother's love. And when I drank, everybody loved me.
• 34:03
  I was the freaking most popular person in the world. So that's why I did it for 20 years. And boy, I wish I would have done it, stopped at 23. But I didn't hit rock bottom. You'll read about it in there. But I just wanted my mother's love. And to this day, I haven't talked to her in 30. I haven't talked to her in 20 years. She hasn't called me in 30 years.
• 34:28
  And I've worked through it. And I forgive them. And I have the same crazy-ass routine you have. So we're going to do, you know, no coincidence that one of the charities that the Heart of the Life brand supports is Families Against Narcotics. My father, who wasn't a part of this, my stepfather was the abusive one. My mother, my father, drug addict and alcoholic.
• 34:51
  Very similar backgrounds. The reason why I wanted you to tell all that was so people understand that, hey, good things can come from bad places. And if we did it, anybody can do it. And what our maniacal daily routine is needed. So I have mad respect for you and so much love and, and man, did everything you say. One more question. Is Frank still around?
• 35:21
  Oh, yeah. You still keep in touch with him? 100%. He's a, that guy's got a special place in my heart. Freaking angel, man.
• 35:31
  The only difference about my life and your life is I did all this sobriety alone. I figured out it alone. And I did it during the pandemic. And it was hard. I would not recommend doing that. There were many times where I just sat in a ball, big 215-pound ball, and crying. Just 40 years of hiding my emotions and masking my emotions all came out at once when I stopped drinking.
• 35:57
  I thought the same thing. I think, so all you got to do is quit drinking. That's simple. It's easy. No problem. I quit cold turkey, walked away and said, all right, when's life going to get great? Oh, it got bad. Real bad.
• 36:09
  And God just kept testing me. And I'm like, I'm not going to break. And here I'm coming up on five years, and I'll never drink again. It's that simple. I don't even think about it because I've healed that. I don't need my mother's love anymore. I got it. I can supply it right here. You saw me tapping my heart the whole time because you were making me cry, and I was tapping my heart to center myself. So many habits and rituals to make sure that I don't slip up.
• 36:33
  but that's just not one of them. So I love you. Thank you for sharing. And again, you are very successful. So it came from, from the dark, darkest steps. So man, you answered so many of my questions here. Let's do it. Go to this one. What do you want your legacy to ultimately be? Cause you told me it when we were talking on the phone, share it with the listeners. What do I want my legacy to ultimately be? I mean,
• 37:03
  I think ultimately at the end of the day, I am in my, I feel like I'm in my greatest flow, my greatest flow state when I'm doing things like this and being of sorts, right? I feel like when I'm teaching my kids, when I'm sharing my story, when I, you know, yesterday
• 37:33
  teenage boys talk to them about life and my experience and what I would do differently. And, you know, and then it opened up, you know, I shared my story, not as, not as intensely as this one, because, you know, I, I wanted them to be able to feel like they could potentially relate to me. And sometimes, you know, when they're that young, maybe, you know, it's too much, but I shared the, the, the, the, the, the, the framework. Yeah.
• 38:01
  And then it opened up to questions. And man, I want people to remember me and my kids to follow my footsteps in this idea that money is awesome, but it's not going to make you happy. Things are fun for a period of time, but they're not going to fulfill you.
• 38:30
  Relationships are fucking everything. Relationships are everything. And I want to have the greatest relationships ever.
• 38:44
  Ever. I think that is really like when I, you know, and that's not only with my family. I think that's just like the relationships that I develop over time in business, friendship, obviously with family. I think sharing that and being that being my legacy, that this guy was a successful dude, raised some awesome children, had an amazing marriage with his wife. But at the end of the day, he put his relationships first.
• 39:14
  I think that that will ultimately be an amazing legacy to have because when you put your relationships first and you kind of lead through with that, all the things that you want will happen. But the most important relationship, the absolute most important relationship is the one you have with yourself. You know? Your phone drop right there.
• 39:41
  That was beautiful. Thank you. It just keeps getting better. I want to talk to you for hours. I'm going to come back to the family, but I want to ask them. So when I get this all the time, too. So when somebody comes to you and they're sober curious, what's the first piece of advice that you give them?
• 39:59
  When somebody's not sure and they're like on the fence, I just say, hey, like I can't tell you whether you are or you're not an addict or an alcoholic. I can't. It's not, you know, it's like something that you've got to come to on your own. But I would ask you to ask yourself this question. Does your drinking or doing drugs interrupt your life in any way? Are you.
• 40:22
  not good at showing up to commitments because you're hungover or you, you know, you're out too late or you forget about it or you blackout, right? Like that would be a, that would be a glaring example. Are you fighting with your significant other because you are, you guys go out and you end up having one too many?
• 40:41
  Um, do your kids, are your kids afraid of you because you, uh, you tend to get a little loosey goosey and, you know, can get a little, uh, aggressive when you're at a family outing, like any of those things, right? Is, is it interrupting your life? Is it disrupting your life in any way? And if you can answer yes to that, I would say chances are you have a problem. So if that's the case.
• 41:09
  you should go check out X, Y, and Z. But if you're still on the fence, all I would recommend you do is try not drinking or doing drugs for 90 days. And if that's no problem for you,
• 41:21
  you're probably good. Like, you know, that you might be okay and you might not be an addict. But if that is a problem, if that, if you like, if you, if you're like, hey, I think I might have a thing. I'm not a hundred percent sure. And someone's like, all right, well then try to not have it for three months. And you're like, oh, I can't do that. Then, you know, it might be, it might, because most people that don't have a problem
• 41:48
  never think they have a problem with it. That's just the truth. Like my wife, she drinks. She'll have a glass of wine a night or two sometimes. My wife never, the thought of being an alcoholic like has never crossed her mind. She's, you know, and so if you're sober curious or on the fence, I would argue to say chances are there's something going on.
• 42:17
  But ask yourself those questions, you know? Yeah, I've said many times, if you're asking yourself that question, you probably are. Another thing I ask people is, what has alcohol ever done for you, and what has it ever made better? People say, oh, I need it to be social. Dude, you want to see somebody social? Come work a room with me sober.
• 42:40
  hindered me and I was social but I'm 10 times more social now because I'm focused and I pay attention and I'm not looking for the bar thinking about the next party such a waste of time sorry I digress I've I've yet to find love I've
• 42:56
  or have a family, even though I got a 14-year-old daughter. I know you're a family man. You just talked about it. Tell us about the family. How'd you meet your wife? And how do you keep the marriage going? Because you're always in the city all week. And then I want to add one more. Now that I know your backstory, how did you figure out how to trust and allow, receive love? Coming from that background. Yeah, that's a good question. I will say that my greatest all-time
• 43:26
  accomplishment and where all of my pride resides is in my family, my ability to, to have a, to have a successful relationship with a woman for honestly, almost 19 years. Now I met Donna about,
• 43:42
  eight months after I got sober and I, we got married when I was 26 and she was 24. So we've been met. We just celebrated 15 years of marriage in this summer and we're together 18 years coming up on 19. And so actually that's not true. We just celebrated 16 years of marriage and 18 years and almost 19 years together. Yeah.
• 44:10
  I met her at a very vulnerable time in my life. I was bartending and she walked into the bar. And, uh, at that's, at that point in my life, I was not, I was not, uh, you know,
• 44:28
  It's interesting. When I got sober, my body changed very quickly because I dove deep into fitness and I got jacked and shredded quick. It was like kind of crazy. But within within three, I got sober, bloated, same height as I am now. But I was probably, you know.
• 44:46
  I had like, I was like 25, 30% body fat, you know, it was and and when I got sober, I gave up the booze. And you know, when you give up alcohol, like the weight just drops off. And especially if you dive into fitness and start eating healthy. And so I just like changed my whole entire body composition very quickly. And so
• 45:08
  you know, and I was young, so I was resilient, you know, like I was kind of shining and I had, it was certainly, I had certainly, I was not having any issues with the females at that time in my life. You know, like there was women were like, you know, it was, and I was bartending in a hotspot in New York city.
• 45:25
  And it's kind of crazy to think about that, right? Like guy gets sober, hardcore addict and alcoholic, but I got sober behind a bar. And what does that mean? That means that I was fucking ready to get sober. Like I was ready to get sober. I was surrounded by alcohol and I, and I had zero problem serving it, having it in my hands. I never took a sip. I was, I was done. I was done. That, that, that is like a,
• 45:49
  That is like a very clear cut example of someone that like, hey, when you make a commitment to this thing and you're done, you're done. I was done a day at a time. And so she walked in the bar with another beautiful girl and two guys. They walk in. I'm like, wow, those girls are beautiful. But they were with two dudes, so I paid no mind to it. Anyway, they sat down at the bar for a little bit and then they walked into the restaurant. They had dinner.
• 46:20
  And then like 10 minutes later, the girls came out and sat at the bar. And I was like, huh, interesting. Maybe they're not together. Anyway, we just started hanging out. They hung out with me all night. You know, they definitely tied one on. And Donna was, this was April 23rd, 2004. And the only reason why I know that is because her birthday is April 25th, which was two days later. And she was like, you got to let me take you out. And she was like, well, it's my birthday in a couple of days. I was like, huh.
• 46:47
  Let me take you out for your birthday. Like I am a New York City restaurant legend. I will take you. I will have the best birthday. And she was like, no, I'm not letting you. I got plans on my birthday. I'm going on my girlfriend's. I was like, all right, well, I'm not working tomorrow. So why don't you just let me pick you up for dinner tomorrow night at 10 o'clock and we'll celebrate your birthday at midnight. And then I could say that I took you out for your birthday. And she was like, smooth. Okay, cool. And mind you, this is like, she's like a, you know, my wife is.
• 47:18
  My wife is a five foot 10 Danish model, right? I'm a five foot eight New York city bum. You know what I mean? And, and, and, and,
• 47:33
  I just, I, it was just like, you know, I'd had experiences with beautiful women, but not like her. You know, she was like flying all over the world. And so I took her out for dinner, we had an amazing night. And then she ghosted me for two weeks. And I was like, oh my God, I can't believe it.
• 47:49
  She goes to me for two weeks. Anyway, two weeks later, I get a text from her saying, hey, are you free? And I was like, I'm actually, yeah, I'm free. She was like, come meet me at this spot. I went down and I met with her. She was like, oh, you know, I was very confused. The guy that I came into the restaurant with was a guy that I wasn't dating, but it was a guy that I was kind of seeing. And like, I just had to figure out what I wanted because I liked you so much. Yeah.
• 48:11
  Anyway, that was it. We were tied at the hip ever since. She's my rock. She's my support system. I fucking love her more than anything. It makes me cry when I talk about her like that because she's stuck by my side through everything that I've been through, all my entrepreneurial insanity. And then I've got these two beautiful kids, man, you know, that I've got two sons, four
• 48:38
  Finley and Dakota, and I get to be their fucking dad and treat them like the sons that I wanted to be. You know, I treat these kids like they're my, I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine sitting here talking to you. Like, I can't even fathom.
• 49:02
  treating these kids like anywhere even close to where my father had the balls and the audacity to, to, to treat kids, you know, treat a kid. Couldn't believe it. Like I still, I still have, sometimes I'm like, Oh my God. Like I love these kids so much. Like I love them so much. Like I could, I could grab the love. The love is so intense for me that I can feel it physically and like almost grab it with my hands. And I just, I sometimes look back and I'm like,
• 49:31
  How could that guy have ever fucking done that? How could he have ever done that?
• 49:36
  you know? And so now I get to be the, the, the, the dad that I, I wanted from, from my father to these kids. And, and how do I think the relationship is last as, as, as, as, has been so successful with my wife? Well, first and foremost, I'm sober, right? So I'm not going out and fucking around and being an idiot. Right. And I'm not like hanging out with the guys and getting hammered and drunk and doing stupid shit. My, my ability to communicate with,
• 50:05
  is strong. And I don't know where I got that from, but probably through the work I've done in sobriety, her and I communicate, what? Working behind the bar.
• 50:15
  Yeah, working behind the bar. But we communicate, you know, I call it upfront in your face communication, meaning you do not bottle shit up. You feel something, you say something, you know, like you see something, you say something, you feel something, you say something. And it happens fast and it's uncomfortable. And the two of us have committed to it. We don't let shit go.
• 50:38
  get built up. And, and, and I think that is one of the most successful pieces of advice I can give anybody in relationships that if you feel something, you got to be comfortable with your partner and say something, even if it's not something big, but especially if it's something big.
• 50:54
  Another thing is that we committed to each other that we will not go to bed angry at each other. So if we get into a fight, which happens, of course, we get into arguments, we get into fights, we will bury the hatchet before we go to bed and we'll hug each other, we'll kiss each other. And, and we do not let that shit.
• 51:12
  build up overnight because, you know, that can last days, weeks, sometimes, you know, longer for, for partners. I think another thing that is, makes our relationship successful is we've been together a long time. We talk about making sure that our sexual relationship is strong.
• 51:30
  It's strong there. And there are times we have to check ourselves. But my wife and I have been together a long ass time. We are still having sex once or twice a week. You know, it's a mandatory thing for us. And there there have been times where it's gone longer and we're like, oh, shit. Like, yeah, you know, we're we're real about it. We don't we're not shy to talk about it. Sometimes it's like, hey, we should go do that.
• 51:55
  You know, and I think that's another really important piece to mention for relationships. The truth is, dude, I would rather hang out with my wife and kids than anybody else on the planet. I am at my I am having I have more fun with them. I am more comfortable with them. My wife knows everything about me. And, you know, it's rare for guys like you and I.
• 52:22
  to be able to bring people into our lives like that based on our, you know, I just want to ask one more question. And I want to say something too. Not very many people would I like to change lives with, but yours I would. And, and I don't say that lightly because I live a fabulous life, but the thing that keeps escaping me is that love and that,
• 52:46
  I have a daughter who I get, when you just said that you can't understand how they can treat. Now remember, our parents were treated the same way. You're the one, brother. You're the one that stopped it. So be proud. You stop the chain of abuse. And those kids now will prosper. My daughter's the same thing. It's the fucking proudest thing I can say. Forget my businesses. Forget the charity. It's the legacy that they're going to have. So kudos and congratulations. I know it feels good.
• 53:17
  But how did you let the love in? How did you learn to trust the love? I'm asking this specifically for me, man. How did you let Donna love you and trust that she is going to be there? Because you didn't grow up trusting love. Yeah, you know, it's a really good question. And I don't know that I can give you like a...
• 53:43
  very concise answer. But I could tell you this, when we first met, I was in a super vulnerable place. I was I was like, a complete lunatic, because I'd been, you know, I dove so deep into the martial art that I was training, that I was probably training three to four hours a day. And I became obsessed. And I told her straight up, all I do
• 54:13
  is work, work out, and go to AA. Those are the three things I do in my life. If you can, if you, like, and I'm not going to change that right now. I'm just not, you know, it's like where I am and it's what I need to do. If you can be, get behind that, then we've got something here, you know? And yeah.
• 54:40
  She also would not let me have sex with her for almost a month, which I think was probably another massive piece of it. And honestly, I don't even think I was like, I think I was, I wasn't even like upset about that. I wasn't, you know, begging for it. I think I respected the shit out of it. Yeah.
• 55:02
  And so that was like early days. And then also like in the beginning of our relationship for the first few years, three, four years, I mean, what I'm telling you that my wife was like, she was in the air traveling for modeling more than she was on the ground. Like, I'm not joking. She was all over the place. I mean, she was like an insanely successful model. So we had this, like we had this very, very healthy separation from each other, even though we lived together. I think what really...
• 55:33
  She loved me unconditionally no matter what, even when I pushed her away. And she, I think that I hadn't felt that ever. Someone that loved me unconditionally no matter what, even when I tried to push them away and self-sabotage.
• 55:55
  I'm 47. I haven't, I'll be 48 in a couple of weeks. I haven't had that. You just, dude, that's why I said I'll trade. I'll trade. I'd trade places with you and then you're the only person in the world. That's it. I love my life.
• 56:07
  But everything I'm asking you just resonated home with me, man. And, you know, my thing is when I drank, I could have any girl I want. I could do anything. And then now when I'm sober, it's like I'm pushing everybody away because they don't want to level up. But I just know that that's the right thing to do, and I'm not giving it up. So you give me hope even though God, you know what the answer is? When I say God sent you an angel.
• 56:34
  He did. There's no doubt. Interestingly, I have angels tattooed on my back, two big angels tattooed on my back. And both of their faces are of my wife. I believe... This is such a freaking life lesson on life and love and what not to do and what to do and how to overcome this...
• 56:58
  I wish we could talk for hours. I got to catch a flight to go to Florida. And I'm just, I'm going to think about this the whole way. I want to come. We're going to do this again. Either I'm coming to you or we're going to be in person. Because there's so much more I want to unpack. This is really, I want to ask one more question. What is your biggest fear? My biggest fear.
• 57:31
  I would honestly say my biggest fear is that for whatever reason, I think it's because I didn't come from money. I wasn't poor. Right. My father was an electrician. My mother was a secretary. But there was not a lot of money.
• 57:52
  And I've always had like a financial insecurity burden in my life, even though I've made some great cash, you know, there's still always this and I'm an entrepreneur. And so, and I start businesses, you know, I love starting businesses. I guess my biggest fear is probably not having the kind of money that I want to have because,
• 58:18
  to give my family the life that I envision us living. I think that's probably my biggest fear because I –
• 58:27
  I'm not really afraid. My health is in check. I'm a savage physically. Nothing really scares me there. I have a deep connection with my wife and kids. The love is so real. I think before my kids, if you would have asked me before my kids, I would probably say something different, more like,
• 58:51
  I'm afraid I'm not going to be the father that I want to be, but I am the father I want to be. So that I've changed that. I really think it's probably like having this, this fear that I probably have to unwind, you know, in, in some more self-development work of not having the amount of capital I think I want to have in order to give the, in order to provide the life that I
• 59:21
  is a present and that's all that matters you know if you have a million dollars you have 10 million dollars 45 million dollars they say the level of happiness doesn't get any better um just a reminder friendly reminder uh besides ordering creatures of habit oatmeal not oatmeal but the foods and everything what can the audience do to personally support you and what can i do to personally support you
• 59:47
  I mean, look, man, you know, I honestly feel like my favorite place to be is when I'm doing this. I love being of service this way. So the more, you know, you can include me in experiences like this, the better I am. You know, there's definitely a part of my career that I haven't really taken, you know, tapped into or taken advantage of yet, which is in the keynote speaking arena. Like that is a big part of the future of my life that I want to start to dig into. Yeah.
• 1:00:14
  And so if anybody's listening here and has an opportunity there, like I'm excited about that. I'm excited to get into that kind of thing. And then really, honestly, right now,
• 1:00:24
  going on to creatures of habit.com creatures of habit with a K and trying out meal one or night cap. Night cap is our sleep support elixir, which is delicious and also really fucking all natural and really good. It helps you fall and stay asleep. Um, that business is, is, is, is, is the way I'm telling my story right now. And, uh, and you know, participating in that would be awesome. Thank you for your vulnerability. Thank you for being here. Thank you for not giving up.
• 1:00:54
  I love you. We're going to... I am touched by this interview. When you read the book, you'll see why. And I'll be in touch in the next two weeks when our app is getting closer. And I'm going to put your... I'm going to have you put your money where your mouth is, where you just said. Because...
• 1:01:11
  When I show you this app, you're going to go, oh, how can I get involved even more? Because it's cool. I'm going to disrupt some big players in a big space. And it's all for what we're doing. And to create a big, loud shadow for how to live life the right way. We should name it Easier Than Life. My daughter named it Healthier Than Life. That's going to be the app, Healthier Than Life instead of Harder Than Life. And I'm excited to introduce you to my daughter. I want to meet your kids. And I want to see Donna...
• 1:01:42
  Markable. I love you. I have to run and I'm sad this ends. Please rate and share this podcast. Also, I do my best to respond to all comments on social platforms. So if you want to see more or less of something, leave a comment. Each and every episode is sponsored by my IT company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.
• 1:02:08
  Thank you for listening. Please rate and subscribe to Harder Than Life, and let's take this to the next level. Get connected at the links below.