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Max Zelenevich, Brainwave Coffee Roasters · Coffee People Podcast

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Now on to the show. Hopefully you have enough
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editing tools to make me sound intelligent, but we'll, we'll
1:04
get there when we get there. So.
1:05
If it if. It works enough for me.
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It'll work enough for you. Hey everyone, welcome back to
1:25
the Coffee People podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Wolt.
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This show is presented by Roast our Coffee packaging and is part
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of our Roast West Coast Coffee Network.
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Go to roastwestcoast.com to find recaps of this show, our Coffee
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Smarter podcast, and so much more.
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On this podcast, we connect with guests who have some connection
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to the coffee industry. For 12 seasons, we've been
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sharing the stories of roasters, baristas, farmers, scientists,
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artists, tech entrepreneurs, and more.
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We delve into entrepreneurship, motivation, and inspiration,
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often with a great cup of coffee.
2:00
Our guest today is Max Delanovich, the head roaster and
2:04
Co founder of Brain Wave Roasters in the suburbs of
2:06
Philadelphia. Brain Wave is a new company, but
2:09
Max isn't a new roaster. He's been a home roaster for a
2:12
long time, and we're going to get into that momentarily.
2:15
While you're listening today, be sure to click on the links in
2:18
this podcasts show notes and follow at Brain Wave Roasters on
2:22
Instagram or check out their current coffees on offer at
2:25
brainwaveroasters.com. You'll also find the links in
2:29
our newsletter, which you can sign up for on
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roastwestcoast.com. It comes once a week and you can
2:36
listen to this show right there in the e-mail.
2:38
Today I'm drinking a Crossings Coffee Roasters cold brew
2:42
because despite it being late October, we've been wandering in
2:46
and out of heat waves like a drunken sailor steering a ship
2:50
through the Caribbean. Wherever you are, I hope you
2:53
have a mug or three of good coffee to enjoy while you listen
2:57
to this Coffee People podcast episode featuring Max Elinovich
3:02
of Brain Wave Roasters. Yeah, my name is Max Zalenevich.
3:17
I am part owner, co-owner, head roaster, kind of the failed
3:23
social media person. If there's a bad social media
3:26
person on our website, that's me.
3:29
I don't know how to make a real. But all of that for Brain Wave
3:32
Coffee Roasters. We're a month and a half old at
3:35
this point, so at this stage I'm still feeling like a home
3:39
roaster at my heart. I have been for a while.
3:41
So I live in Philadelphia. I grew up in a small town
3:44
outside of Philadelphia, so kind of confined to this area for a
3:48
long time, but spent a lot of time at work traveling the
3:52
United States out of the country.
3:54
So gotten to see a lot of things over the years, which has been
3:57
great. Outside of work, I'm avid
4:00
climber. I adventure cyclist, I'll call
4:03
it that. I have a bike that I ride on the
4:06
road and on some gravel roads. And then every once in a while
4:09
I'm like, hey, I don't know what that is.
4:10
I'm going to go try to ride on it, inevitably fall and, you
4:14
know, have a good time with it. So nothing serious.
4:17
All right. Well, that's the show, Max.
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I appreciate it. And I'm sorry.
4:21
We're going to get into a lot of kind of the details about Brain
4:24
Wave, which is exciting and new company right on the cusp of
4:29
beginning. I noticed you didn't introduce
4:31
yourself as champion Max Ilanovich.
4:34
You recently won a home or not a home.
4:38
You won an overall roasting competition hosted by one of our
4:41
sponsors to say a coffee source, but you not only won the judges
4:45
award, but you won the People's Choice award as a new roaster,
4:48
new company. How that feel?
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I'm happy that I know that that happened.
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I saw they posted something on Instagram.
4:57
I almost didn't watch it. In fact I watched 80% of it.
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I was hoping maybe for 5th place.
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I entered just to get some unbiased feedback on coffee.
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I didn't even know there were prizes.
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So I'm still processing this all.
5:11
But yeah I watched Instagram video and I was like didn't get
5:14
5th or 4th that's OK. And scrolled to the end, wasn't
5:18
paying attention and I heard my name brought up.
5:20
I said what is happening right now?
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Got all flustered and I rewound a little bit and went back and
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listened. I was like, this must be a
5:28
mistake. There's no way.
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And it happened. And I didn't know about the
5:32
People's Choice until the results were posted.
5:34
I guess my heart was beating so fast I couldn't hear.
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But yeah, it's really kind of a a wild experience.
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I didn't expect any of this. I honored, completely honored.
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I love to say I love the coffees they make.
5:49
And I saw the e-mail come out and soon as I saw it, like
5:52
immediately sounds fun. I've never made a blend before.
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Why don't I try it? And here we are.
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I was in the room. I was one of the judges.
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I tried every single one of the roasts.
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I think it was always 70 that we tried from roasters all over the
6:07
place, including some champion roasters who were participating.
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And it was very clear that there was about a top five in the
6:17
room. Like even though we weren't
6:18
talking about it, we weren't supposed to be sharing our
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notes. You could all, you could almost
6:22
hear people go, oh, oh, yeah. That, yeah.
6:24
OK. Because we had been doing it all
6:26
day. And when 1 stood out, it really
6:28
stood out. It's a challenge when you have
6:30
70 people roasting the same coffee.
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There's going to be a lot of overlap.
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So it took a lot to stand out. And then I was there when they
6:39
announced the the award. And I think even then, as much
6:42
as you were confused, I think people in the room are a little
6:44
confused because they're like, we, we think he's a guy, he's in
6:48
Philadelphia. You might have a company.
6:51
We're not sure yet. We're figuring it out.
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But either way, congratulations. A really cool achievement.
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And, you know, it was exciting for me to be be part of it.
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Before you started roasting, do you remember having a first
7:05
experience with coffee that kind of got you started or that, you
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know, maybe planted a seed at some point?
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Yeah, I'll maybe give a little background to kind of build up
7:15
to my turning point with coffee. I've worked as an environmental
7:19
scientist for a long time, very analytical brain, but a hobby of
7:23
mine has been home brewing, brewing beer and been doing that
7:27
13 years. I went through a beer judging
7:31
certification program. I've been involved with judging
7:33
that. So kind of gotten to develop my
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palate. Had a part time job at a winery
7:39
for a while. I was giving tastings, loved it,
7:41
and I loved connecting with people.
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So. But at that point, coffee had
7:45
always been sort of this thing that I liked, loved.
7:49
I'll say I knew I didn't like the chains.
7:51
I knew I didn't like kind of the grocery store coffees.
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Couldn't tell you why. I went to small coffee shops.
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I got small bags from roasters and loved all the cups.
8:03
But to me, it was just like, this is delicious.
8:06
And I think like a lot of people, I had a natural
8:08
Ethiopian coffee and said, what am I drinking right now?
8:12
What is this flavor? Is this coffee?
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And clicked me at that point in the same way that I was able to
8:20
connect with people at the winery of, oh, there's flavors
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here. This isn't just coffee.
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This is blueberry. There's spice to some of it.
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There's fruits. There's, you know, sometimes
8:31
vegetables, which happens, but you know, there's, there's this
8:36
nuance and they, they work together and they play together.
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And that kind of just sparked in my brain this idea of, I know I
8:43
like coffee, but now I, I'm, I'm into this, I, I'm into, I'm
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hooked. I need to find more, try to
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explore as much as I can, going to different coffee shops.
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And like, again, I've traveled a lot for work and, you know,
8:57
something that always stood out to me was just like these
9:00
experiences at coffee shops or even just with the ritual of
9:04
drinking coffee, making coffee. So it, it kind of just started
9:08
to fold together. I started thinking about, you
9:11
know, I spent some time in India and I was remembering standing
9:14
on a corner. I just at this, like, you know,
9:16
it was less than a dollar, but they make you a coffee right
9:19
there and they mix it with cream and sugar.
9:20
And even though that's not my thing, it just that was the
9:23
moment. That's that coffee.
9:24
I'm enjoying that experience. And, you know, the Pacific
9:28
Northwest having those coffee booths, which never knew as a
9:32
thing pulled up to the wrong 1 and it's all too much of a human
9:36
being. But yeah, it just kind of just
9:40
meshed together these incredible flavors with these experiences
9:43
that I have of coffee shops, the conversations I have with
9:45
friends at them, the ritual of making it in the morning.
9:48
It just kind of really became front and center in my, I don't
9:53
know, daily life of I no longer was just looking for a real
9:57
quick coffee. I was now looking for something
9:59
to kind of elevate my experience, connect with other
10:01
people, get to talk to them, say, hey, I had this coffee, you
10:05
had that coffee, tell me what you liked and just kind of
10:09
became a thing to have a conversation over and something
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I really enjoyed. So ever since then I've just
10:14
been, you know, trying to get as much as I can without over
10:18
caffeinating. You mentioned that you were
10:21
working in environmental science and I saw some picture of some
10:24
work you're doing during the pandemic, you know, handing out
10:26
supplies as well, I'm assuming as part of some sort of
10:28
volunteer work based thing. There a lot going on.
10:32
When do you start actually roasting in addition to whatever
10:36
your career path is? Yeah, this is kind of funny.
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I bought my house in Philly a while ago and at some point I
10:47
got a new neighbor, immediately had a crush on her, got to
10:51
talking, rode some bikes together and we would share
10:54
coffee in the morning, kind of. She'd have an espresso maker I'd
10:57
have pour over and we'd switch between which one we made for
11:00
the day. And you know, through home
11:04
brewing. I had an ad pop up one time that
11:07
said, oh, save 15% on roasted coffee or on roasted coffee
11:11
beans. I'm like, I what do you do with
11:13
those? And I started going down a
11:14
rabbit hole of like, oh man, I don't need another expensive
11:17
hobby right now. But through sharing this coffee
11:21
with my neighbor, I had this idea of like, I'm going to
11:25
revisit this because I think this is the ultimate form of
11:29
flirtation is to create a coffee and and roast it and share that.
11:33
And yeah, it worked. I live with her now.
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And that's the other half of brain wave.
11:39
So very rare in the life of me that I get to successfully flirt
11:45
with a weird skill. You get green, some green, and I
11:49
mean, I'm assuming you bought a roaster or you bought some sort
11:52
of, or you found a roaster to work on.
11:54
How does that progress from, you know, this idea that I'm going
11:57
to try it one time, at least to you start doing it regularly and
12:02
it becomes something more important to you?
12:04
Yeah. So sort of it became a thing
12:07
where I'd find small importers, just kind of the, the major ones
12:12
that are out there and go through the list and look
12:14
through origins, look through tasty notes and be like, wow,
12:16
I've never had a coffee from there.
12:18
I'd like to try that. And then I'd buy the greens,
12:21
roast them up on. I had a fresh roast Sr. 800.
12:25
Then it just, it became, you know, outside of this
12:28
relationship I grew, I just was excited to share it with my
12:32
friends. And, you know, I, I got to, I
12:35
was starting to mail it to people and I, I'm traveling to
12:39
Vermont to see my friends and I'm bringing all this coffee
12:41
with them and it's me and sharing with them.
12:45
And it's turning into this, this ritual we'd have where we'd get
12:47
to like sit down and make a cup of coffee together.
12:50
And they taste it and kind of ask me, Hey, what am I, what am
12:53
I tasting here? Why is this good?
12:55
Why is this different? And, you know, kind of
12:58
explaining to them what I taste, you know, not necessarily the,
13:02
the right thing, but it, it, it kind of got to click with them.
13:06
And it was, you know, really, really amazing experience.
13:09
So through that Ave. actually I was sharing coffee with a bunch
13:14
of people in this tiny little town in Vermont and took some to
13:18
a bike shop. And, you know, he came back to
13:21
me and he said, you know what? We're having a, we're having a
13:23
bike ride. There's going to be a lot of
13:24
people here and I'd love to have pour over coffee.
13:28
If you could roast it for us, it'd be great.
13:30
I said, sure, how much do you need?
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And we kind of did the math and realized that it was about, I
13:35
think he needed 20 lbs of coffee.
13:38
So I went back to my fresh roast and I, over a couple weeks, I
13:45
roasted 20 lbs of coffee. And I learned how much it could
13:50
be a, a pain in the butt to do. But you know, it was, it was fun
13:53
the whole time just just getting to crank out these roasts.
13:55
And I went to this bike ride. I had 10 V 60s in front of me
14:02
and I was just pouring coffee for people, people who, for the
14:06
record, it was a very anomalous snowstorm that rolled in.
14:09
So now everyone's cold or tired and they want hot coffee.
14:12
And I have a 10 gallon kettle of hot water, 10 V 60s and, and,
14:18
and ground coffee. And I'm just sitting there
14:20
banging them out and sharing with people in, you know, I had
14:23
this, I had such great feedback and, and, and really positive
14:27
conversations with people. They, they still reach out.
14:29
And now that we're selling coffee, that they, they buy
14:32
coffee and they remind me of, you know, the coffees that they
14:34
bought. They.
14:35
Oh yeah, that Sumatra that you had out there that was so good.
14:38
And do you have anything similar to that?
14:40
And, you know, it just means so much to me to hear that.
14:42
So after the bike ride, I had sold my house and I moved in
14:47
with my next door neighbor and, and I had some extra money and
14:52
said, Hey, I'm, I'm, I'm going to try this.
14:55
I'm going to, I'm going to stop draining my wallet buying these
15:00
green coffees that I just give out to my friends and family
15:03
and, and say, you know what? Maybe, maybe we can turn this
15:06
into something. Maybe, maybe we could start a
15:09
business and, and, and see where it goes.
15:12
And yeah, a lot of hiccups along the way.
15:17
I had that idea in February and it didn't pan out until I guess
15:21
a month and a half ago. So it took a long time to get
15:24
here, but finally got all the permits and licensing and yeah,
15:28
it's been, it's been amazing. It's been truly special to be
15:31
able to do this. For the record, when you were
15:33
roasting that 20 lbs on your fresh roast machine, how many
15:38
pounds at a time or how much coffee were you roasting at a
15:40
time? 250 grams at a time.
15:44
So yeah, it, it took me, I guess I'd be about 2526 roasts maybe,
15:50
maybe more. I, I try to block that out of my
15:52
memory at this point. It's a rough week.
15:55
How much? What are you roasting on now?
15:58
So I upgraded to a Collido M10. It has a capacity of 1.2
16:03
kilograms, so definitely an upgrade.
16:07
And perhaps I should have listened to the advice I read on
16:11
the Internet a million times over that buy something too big
16:13
'cause you'll grow into it versus sitting there doing 20
16:18
roasts back-to-back yet again. But you know, it's, I think I
16:23
love the process so much. I love the science of it.
16:25
I love the smell. I love watching the beans
16:28
change. That first time I heard first
16:30
crack, it was, you know, amazing.
16:32
It was exciting and I still get excited.
16:34
So I don't mind roasting a lot back-to-back.
16:38
The, the idea to start was, you know, back in February, I don't
16:41
think that really is really that long to have a company up and
16:44
running and, and selling coffee. But I'm wondering is this, is
16:48
this a full time job or are you still working as a scientist and
16:52
doing 2 full time jobs? Or, you know, what's your life,
16:55
your life balance, if there is one.
16:58
There's no balance. I still work full time
17:01
environmental consulting and I have brain wave on the side,
17:07
which, you know, started pretty small and there's been a lot of
17:11
attention lately, so requiring a lot more of my time.
17:14
And I'm in grad school too, so I'll be graduating with a
17:18
master's in geology in two months.
17:21
So I'm kind of doing a little bit of everything right now.
17:24
Still somehow finding time for hobbies and hopefully not
17:30
letting my relationship fall to the wayside.
17:33
So, you know, trying to learn how to manage time and spend it
17:36
wisely. Fortunately, I'm kind of good at
17:39
it, I suppose. Well, and you mentioned the
17:42
relationship, your partner in Brain Wave is your partner in in
17:46
life. What made them decide that they
17:48
were on board with this idea and wanted to be involved?
17:52
I can't help but think she was riding my stoke in this.
17:54
And, you know, the more excited I got, she's like, yeah, yeah,
17:59
this is great. You know, the idea started.
18:02
We were kind of laying in bed going to sleep, and my brain's
18:07
going 1,000,000 miles a minute, probably too much coffee for the
18:10
day. And I was like, hey, let's do
18:13
it. Let's try this.
18:15
And I think we had always joked about it.
18:18
That's the joke. Every morning we'd have this
18:20
fresh roasted coffee, Hey, we should start a business.
18:24
We should start a business. And then I finally said,
18:28
actually, let's do it. Let's, let's start it.
18:30
And yeah, she's a, a graphic designer by trade.
18:34
And this has been a really great thing for her too.
18:37
She's gotten to have a lot of creative freedom.
18:40
She did all the design, all of the branding and all the website
18:45
stuff, which I couldn't draw a stick figure if I tried.
18:48
So I'm, I'm, I'm so forever grateful for this.
18:51
And, you know, every time she, she had an idea, she I'm like,
18:54
I, I, I, I love it. I don't know what it is.
18:58
I don't want to know. Just just just roll with it and
19:00
we'll see what happens. And yeah, it's been pretty cool
19:02
to watch her brain churn. And, you know, I, I peek over
19:05
her shoulder, she's drawing A at shirt design that we just, we
19:09
just made, which is, I never thought I'd ever be making
19:12
T-shirts, But you know, I got to see her design and, and just
19:15
watching her go through those steps, it's like, wow, this is
19:18
really cool. This is special.
19:19
I I'm excited for you that you get to do this.
19:21
So, you know, I think from the start of it, it's always been
19:25
kind of sharing coffee together. And now I think she's, I hope
19:29
she's just as excited as I am that, you know, we get to share
19:33
coffee together and we still have our morning rituals
19:35
together. But it's, it's taking it a step
19:38
further now and, and we're branching out to, to more
19:42
people. And, you know, I think one of
19:46
the hard things at first was I guess when I started this, I was
19:50
clinging on to this idea of community and sharing with
19:54
people almost, you know, the work, working at a winery,
19:58
giving wine tastings, It was the most fulfilling thing in the
20:01
world. I got to connect with people.
20:03
I think my favorite experience there was I'd have customers
20:08
come in a couple and more often than not, one person loved wine,
20:13
the other was just tagging along, maybe a date.
20:16
And I got to have that, you know, I, I wasn't always a wine
20:20
person, so. I'd I'd speak to the person who
20:23
wasn't in the wine. I'd be like, OK, I, I get it.
20:25
You don't know wine. You don't like wine.
20:27
What do you like? Do you like beer?
20:29
Like, oh, yeah, I love beer. I'm like, OK, what kind of beer
20:31
are you like, oh, I love stouts. OK, well, try this Cabernet has
20:37
like the same sort of deep flavor, rich, it's dry.
20:42
So, you know, share some qualities and, you know, maybe,
20:45
maybe when you take the sip, close your eyes a little bit and
20:47
said, this is how, how can I relate this to a wine or a beer?
20:53
And it would always click. I, I, I, I got so much
20:56
satisfaction from that. So I tried to really like think
21:00
that I'd be doing the same thing with, with coffee.
21:03
And, you know, since we don't have a, a store or just kind of
21:07
online, it, it kind of turns into every once in a while this,
21:10
this transaction where someone just buys coffee and then I
21:13
never hear from them again. And you know, if I'm, if I'm
21:18
being honest with you, this has been a hard thing.
21:23
I, I have a real hard time being vulnerable.
21:25
And I've given up so many hobbies.
21:27
I have 3 guitars in the basement, 2 basses.
21:30
And any time it came down to like, oh, you play guitar?
21:33
What do you, you play something? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,
21:37
it's OK. And then I just, you know, give
21:39
up the guitar or whatever it is. And coffee's been similar where,
21:42
you know, I'm, I'm, I'm pouring my heart and soul into this
21:46
thing and I'm finding these beans and I'm getting excited
21:48
about it and I'm roasting them and, and then someone buys it
21:52
and I don't hear from them again.
21:53
And I'm like, Oh my God, I don't know if you liked it.
21:56
I made a delivery within the first week of opening and they
22:00
were so excited. We had like, messages online.
22:02
I, I dropped it off like, oh, thank you so much.
22:04
I, we'll shoot you Adm. I'm like, awesome.
22:07
Never heard from them. I think about that every day.
22:09
I'm like, I, I like, I want to find, I, I want to go back in
22:13
the orders and like, find their e-mail and like, hey, did I, was
22:16
it OK? Did you like it?
22:17
Like I, I want to know. And so yeah, I, I think I'm, I'm
22:22
starting to, to find a groove here and really get back
22:27
connected to that. And I'm trying to open
22:30
conversations with people and say, hey, you know, I saw you
22:33
ordered these things. It's really exciting.
22:35
Or, you know, we have that subscription that I'm trying to
22:37
like, tailor to people's tastes and just say, like, what do you
22:40
like? What kind of beer do you like?
22:41
What kind of dessert do you like?
22:43
And it's really like scratching that itch for me again.
22:47
And I know, and it's just beyond excited to to have that same
22:51
kind of connection with people and like, and like really,
22:54
really nailed that one. We, this guy loved Ipas.
22:58
He stopped drinking. And I'm like, well, I have a
23:00
Hesaya Beam where they actually put Galaxy hops into the
23:03
fermentation and like, I think you might like this.
23:06
So yeah, it's, I think we're both as long as I was
23:10
meandering, but I think her and I are both kind of like sharing
23:15
similar values of wanting to connect with each other and take
23:18
that a step further and now like create this community.
23:22
So it's been really great. On your journey there, one of
23:26
the things you kind of talked about was what I think is often
23:30
unexpected for people who start home roasting and then start
23:34
turning it into a business, which is.
23:37
There's a little bit of loneliness involved in that
23:39
process. Because you're roasting it and
23:41
putting it out there. Sometimes doing the show, I feel
23:44
like I'm just talking into the void.
23:46
I see people listening, but I missed.
23:48
Maybe I'm not getting that same feedback.
23:50
And I can't speak for you, but I know in my experience, sometimes
23:54
all it takes is that one listener, that one person to
23:56
reach out and, you know, make a point that this impacted them.
24:01
And that'll keep me going and keep me motivated and excited
24:05
for the next day and the next day.
24:07
And there's something about entrepreneurship, I think, where
24:11
you you need to find those victories and hold on to them.
24:14
And as you keep having more and more of those little victories,
24:17
it creates this foundation of belief in yourself.
24:20
You know, that's what you lean on.
24:22
On the days when you're struggling with your roast or
24:24
your, you know, the sale isn't coming through or whatever it
24:28
might be, you go look back at that foundation, say, oh, yeah,
24:31
this, This is why I'm doing this because it's going to continue.
24:34
But there is a disconnect between roasting out of love and
24:37
passion or doing whatever you're doing and then trying to make
24:42
money to justify continuing to do to do it.
24:45
Those are two different things. And when you're also doing other
24:48
things, you know, or having another job or whatever, at some
24:51
point you reach a level where you got to make choices.
24:54
And I'm going to stay tuned to your story as we as you get to
25:00
those points, what happens? Yeah.
25:03
The name Brain Wave came from where?
25:06
The name Brain Wave came because sometimes my brain doesn't work
25:10
so well. I, the idea for it was as I was
25:16
sitting there laying in bed brainstorming stuff, I'm like,
25:19
man, M and I are really on the same wavelength about a lot of
25:23
things. And what that translated to was
25:25
brain wave. And I said it out loud.
25:28
And just like, what does, what does brain wave mean?
25:30
I'm like, oh, I meant wavelength.
25:31
I'm like, brain wave's cool. Let's just, let's, let's go with
25:35
this idea. And we started talking about it,
25:36
thinking about it, Then all of a sudden I'm thinking my brain
25:39
wave. What if there's like a three
25:41
eyed cat with waves coming out of its brain, You know, late
25:46
night thoughts. And yeah, that's kind of just,
25:50
it's just a really goofy mistake that turned into kind of a cool
25:54
logo. So I'm thrilled with it.
25:57
Happy accidents. Yeah, I want to roll back around
26:00
to that Jose roasting competition.
26:03
The the conceit of the competition was that you, as the
26:06
roaster received 3 beans, unknown to you what their origin
26:10
was or, you know, any of the details, and you had to blend
26:13
them together to create a coffee that represented all three in
26:19
some way. And I'm wondering, how did you
26:23
approach that challenge? I mean, what was the, what's the
26:26
feeling of getting coffee in the mail?
26:29
And there's no explanation, no description, nowhere to start.
26:32
How do you begin that process? I loved that aspect of it, which
26:37
is why I was most excited. And you know, the first thing I
26:41
did, I got the package. I looked for clues.
26:44
There weren't any. So I inspected all the beans.
26:48
I looked at them and there were a couple giveaways.
26:52
The the A bean, which wound up being a natural Brazil, had some
26:57
characteristics to it that I was looking at.
26:58
I'm like, yeah, that seems like it's a natural process.
27:01
There's still some of that sugar and silver skin on it.
27:04
And the next being had like really interesting coloration,
27:08
still had some of those natural looking features.
27:12
But you know, I, I could tell that one was a little more
27:15
processed. And then the last being was was
27:19
very clean. I knew it was washed.
27:21
I thought it was. So I kind of took that
27:24
information with me into the first roasts.
27:28
I did an initial roast of each, roasted them all kind of
27:30
similarly with that bias in mind of, you know, washed, maybe
27:35
fermented, maybe in a row, I don't know, and then a natural.
27:39
So then the wait a little bit, tasted them all and I think
27:47
immediately knew the first one was Brazil.
27:49
It tasted, you know, chocolatey, peanutty little caramel.
27:54
I said, OK, that's going to be the base because I know that
27:59
adds body to a blend. The next one I had it, honestly,
28:03
when I was grinding it, it, it tasted a little funky and
28:06
fermented. So that's really just leaning
28:08
into this anaerobic idea and wound up being a, and I, I had a
28:12
feeling it was Colombian. So because I know a lot of those
28:15
wind up being, you know, pretty highly processed.
28:18
So, and I say again, I'm using clues here, they, they do find a
28:22
lot of really cool, fun, experimental Colombian beans.
28:26
So in my brain I'm thinking, all right, they're throwing A twist
28:28
here. So I kept that in mind.
28:30
I tried it. That one was, it's really like
28:32
fruity chocolatey. And yeah, I had this like really
28:37
nice quality to it, really clean, loved it.
28:41
And then the last bean I think correctly guessed it, Kenya, but
28:45
I knew it was Africa. I thought again, that one was
28:49
more, you know, floral. I tasted a lot of citrus in that
28:52
one. So I more or less came up with a
28:55
Venn diagram of flavors. And I said this bee coffee, this
29:00
what I suspect to be Colombian, shares the chocolate quality
29:04
with the first bean and fruitiness with the the C bean.
29:10
So in my brain I'm thinking, I want that to be the star that
29:14
has the most overlap in this Venn diagram of flavors.
29:18
And I knew the other two were, I know they're supposed to all
29:21
shine, but I needed to kind of have those work together to, to
29:25
bring out the best of the 1st but also stand alone.
29:28
So my approach after that was I knew that the the first being
29:33
from Brazil, the a being I wanted to develop a little more
29:36
than the others. I wanted to roast it more like a
29:38
Brazilian. So it kind of stretched it out,
29:41
tried to bring out more body to, to, to complement the, the
29:44
lighter roasts that I was going to do for the others.
29:46
And I think I did all right with that.
29:49
Perhaps maybe a little too light on the percentage.
29:52
And then, yeah, the other two beans I, I kind of went quick.
29:56
I went, I, I roasted them pretty quickly, quicker than I normally
29:59
would. But I really wanted, I tried to
30:01
get some acidity out of there. I tried to really lean into the
30:04
fruitiness. And yeah, I thought I botched
30:08
it. It I, I, I tasted it off roast.
30:13
The grind smelled slightly sour and I was like, Oh no, I didn't
30:17
have time to do it again. I, I waited too long, but I, I,
30:21
I cupped a few ratios together and, and it actually tasted
30:25
really good. So I was like, we'll see what
30:27
happens. And I, I put them together.
30:30
But yeah, I, I, I again, I was just trying to, I knew that the,
30:33
the Brazil bean would be the base and I figured that would
30:37
probably be a low percentage if I, if I developed it enough.
30:40
But I wanted half of that blend to be a Colombian coffee, that B
30:45
bean, just just so it could be sort of the star that gets
30:49
boosted up by the supporting actors.
30:50
And then the C bean I the Ethiopian washed.
30:55
Yeah, roasted that quickly too. And yeah, I think it all came
30:58
together pretty well. It's interesting to me to hear
31:01
this idea of a Venn diagram of flavors and that being kind of
31:04
the base for how you decided to work with it.
31:06
You know, on the other side of it in the, the judging arena, we
31:11
essentially calibrated our tastes every day to this is what
31:16
30% of each of these coffees would be if you just put them
31:19
together and it ended up not being a great blend. 3, you
31:22
know, 1/3 of each the, the coffee flavors just didn't work.
31:25
It's kind of muddied and whatever, but you're able to
31:27
start picking things out and as we were going through the multi
31:31
day judging, it was very clear that the Brazil was what most
31:37
people had struggled with. They struggled they either it
31:41
either was overwhelming or it was not apparent at all.
31:44
And so finding the coffees that brought out a balance of the the
31:48
three was really, really our challenge and the challenge of
31:51
the roasters. When you send it off, you don't
31:57
really know you're going to win. And then as we talked about
31:59
earlier, you kind of didn't even realize it as you're watching
32:02
the the announcement now that you you have one, you know, did
32:07
that, did that inspire any feelings of confidence in you or
32:11
did that change kind of your attitude about, you know, the
32:15
the roasting game? Did they send you a trophy?
32:18
You know, what did you take away from this?
32:20
You know, afterwards, you know, what's the lesson learned?
32:23
It was a very weird mix of emotions.
32:27
I'll, I'll be totally honest with you here.
32:29
I first thing I thought was, wow, they messed up.
32:35
They they made a mistake. They they switched the label on
32:38
and there's no way. They did have me in the judging
32:41
room, so there's always a a chance.
32:44
Well, I trust your, your senses now, but yeah, I I immediately
32:49
just just just dismissed it. There's like, there's no way.
32:53
I started thinking got in my head a little bit saying like,
32:57
you know, perhaps I just got lucky.
32:59
Maybe maybe I just, I just had that one weird roast that just
33:04
went perfect and there's no way I'd ever be able to do that
33:08
again. And I thought about it a lot and
33:13
I, I started to accept it, but it was, it's been tough.
33:16
It's, it's, you know, I still think sometimes like, wow, how
33:20
did, how did that happen? And I, I, I wish I was in the
33:23
judging room. I honestly wish like I could
33:24
taste other coffee blends and, and could have been there to
33:28
experience it. Not so much just to say like,
33:30
oh, that's why mine's better, but just to like really see what
33:33
other people did and to see how it could have tasted or like
33:38
other, other ratios and how that brought out different things.
33:43
Because I didn't have a lot of time to play with it.
33:45
But it wasn't until I talked, I had, I had a phone call with
33:49
Emily at Hosea just going through a little interview so
33:52
they can put a blog post about meet the roaster.
33:55
And they did that for the, the top three, I think.
33:58
And I wouldn't know because I didn't read it, because I don't
34:01
like reading about myself. I I browsed it though.
34:06
So we were talking and and, and she passed down this little
34:10
nugget for me. And maybe I was being self
34:12
deprecating, but she said, hey, you know, we had a lot of
34:16
coffees that day. And there are a few of them.
34:19
Like you were saying that that stood out.
34:21
We had 70 and every once in a while you'd have this coffee
34:24
that he said, Oh yeah, all right, we're back.
34:27
And she said she reminded me that my coffee was one of those
34:32
I got, I got to, you know, pique the interest of some judges.
34:36
And, you know, she, she, she left me with the advice that
34:42
through all of my experience with, with beer judging and
34:45
working at the winery and, and roasting coffee and tasting
34:48
coffee, that I should trust my gut.
34:50
And that that is what I think it took for me to accept this to,
35:00
to realize that, you know, maybe maybe I shouldn't be so hard on
35:04
myself. Maybe maybe I should allow this
35:08
wind to happen and, and, and say like, yeah, you know what?
35:11
I have been doing this. Maybe not as definitely not as
35:13
long as a lot of people, but I've been, I've been obsessing
35:18
over this long enough where you know, I, I'm, I'm calibrated.
35:21
I know my equipment. I know how different beans
35:25
roast. I know what to look for when I'm
35:28
roasting. I've read all the books and I've
35:30
really read the books and watched a bunch of YouTube
35:33
videos and yeah, at, at at some point I need, I needed to hear
35:39
that. I know, I know what I'm doing
35:41
and I needed to believe it. So yeah, it's, it's been kind of
35:48
a, yeah, a roller coaster, I'd say, of, of emotions here.
35:52
And yeah, I think I was touching on it earlier about just like
35:56
this whole idea of vulnerability and, you know, it felt it felt
36:02
very personal to to make that blend and, and it is very
36:05
personal to share coffee with people.
36:06
So just to hear that it, it resonated with people, I think
36:10
was really special. And to me, like, again, I didn't
36:12
know there were prizes. I could have easily foregone
36:15
them And, and just like accepted some of the feedback and and the
36:18
praise, which has been amazing. But, you know, no trophy.
36:23
They do have a little plaque in the warehouse with my name on
36:26
it, which is really cool. I got pictures from all the guys
36:28
there. Yeah, they sent that really
36:32
awesome Brewer that you posted on your story.
36:35
The the Hikaru. Wow, that thing's.
36:39
Yeah, it's like a, it's like a spaceship.
36:41
It is I turn the lights off in the kitchen in the morning and I
36:44
press start and I watch the colors change.
36:46
It's a lot of fun to play with. But yeah, I, I mean, the
36:49
sponsors, holy moly. I, I got a lot of, a lot of
36:54
great prizes and I think like that's, it's going to be fun to
36:59
play with those and kind of like dial in some new brewing methods
37:02
and, and I get to try some matcha tea, which is pretty cool
37:05
so. Well, I'd say the the take away
37:08
here is that Hosea, if you're listening, I know that you are,
37:12
you're flying Max out for next year's competition as an
37:14
honorary judge, right? And then you can be on the other
37:17
side of the table if you want. You know I'll be there.
37:20
I don't speak for them, but I'm just saying, you know, you do
37:24
other things. Obviously you you've got a
37:26
career. You you mentioned cycling in
37:28
particular, and I wanted to ask you a little bit about that.
37:30
I saw a series of photos somewhere that said that you
37:34
kind of bike the gap trail, which is a bike trail kind of
37:37
from Pittsburgh to DC, which is on my bucket list to do in the
37:40
next year or two. You know, how does getting away
37:43
from science? Coffee is still science.
37:45
Getting away from, from your job, from coffee roasting and
37:49
going out and doing stuff like that.
37:51
How does that help you in your life?
37:52
How does it reset you? And, and, and if you're out, you
37:55
know, what do you? What's the best way to make a
37:57
cup of coffee when you're on the trail?
38:00
Yeah, I don't want to say that I had instant coffee that trip and
38:03
it wasn't the good stuff. They've gone a long way and
38:05
instant coffee lately I found out I changed that set up.
38:08
I have AI bought a a little travel pour over machine now,
38:12
not a machine, a dripper. And actually gearing up for a
38:15
trip next week. So I'll be elsewhere next week
38:20
doing a whole tour in Vermont, hitting all the breweries and
38:24
coffee shops and all that. But we'll have good coffee that
38:27
time, I promise. And I say that to em and my
38:30
friends that I'm going with. But yeah, honestly, I'm going to
38:34
keep coming back to the same theme of just like community and
38:37
connection with people, being able to disconnect 'cause it
38:42
really wasn't service on the trails and spend quality time.
38:49
And I say quality in a weird way, 'cause you're suffering the
38:52
whole time. But this is quality time with
38:54
people. You don't have much to do other
38:56
than sit on your bike, be in your head and talk to your
39:01
friends. It's, it's really freeing.
39:05
And, you know, I, I think especially that first part of
39:11
being in your head where, you know, you kind of have to face
39:14
those demons, you kind of have to face those negative thoughts
39:17
and, and, and, and really just overcome them in a way.
39:21
You know, you can, you can sit there and, and think like, aw,
39:23
man, this ride sucks or my butt hurts or I'm hungry.
39:27
But you know, I, I think about mistakes and weird things that
39:33
happen in at work. But you know, once, once you're
39:35
unplugged and, and you're sitting there in your head,
39:37
you're like, man, you know what? Look around, look at the nature
39:40
right now. Listen to the birds, look at all
39:43
the other people out here who are just having a good time.
39:46
I really hope you do the gap trail and I'm excited for you to
39:49
do it. I think it's a great ride and
39:52
like really approachable and I except for the one day that it
39:55
was 20 miles uphill. If you do it the way I did it,
39:58
otherwise you get 20 miles downhill.
40:01
Everybody they, they described it as kind of like a, a European
40:05
type community where everybody's just so nice.
40:08
You you pass people constantly and they're all doing the same
40:10
thing and every time they're like.
40:12
Which way you going? What day is this for you?
40:15
And, you know, it's just really special to just kind of unplug
40:18
from the phone. And as much as it's a great
40:21
thing to have to be connected with people who might not be
40:25
close to you. I mean, we wouldn't be talking
40:26
without technology, of course, but it's, it's really, you know,
40:31
sometimes a, a nice calibration to unplug from that.
40:35
And, and just remember that, you know, they're the things that
40:39
are surrounding you are also super important and, and just
40:42
just getting to, to think about life and the future.
40:46
And, you know, when I do these rides and I like exert myself a
40:50
little bit and you know, whether it's races or rides runs, I
40:54
always wind up getting a little emotional.
40:55
It always like brings this. I think it might be just the
40:59
pain and suffering that you experience in your body.
41:02
But like mentally it, it, it forces me to, to process a lot
41:06
of things in my life. And, you know, I don't always
41:08
get to think of how grateful I am or I don't always get to
41:12
think of, you know, yeah, I got cut off in traffic, but like, I
41:15
got to come home to like a, a, a like awesome cats or whatever.
41:20
And when you're on a bike like that, you, you, I come back to
41:23
those things and think like, man, you know, it's, it's, it's
41:26
been a wild ride and I'm doing a lot and I'm accomplishing the
41:30
bike ride at this moment. And you get to like really
41:33
process that stuff and feel special it.
41:36
Yeah. And to be able to share that
41:39
with friends, if you do it with your friends or if you're alone,
41:42
you know, strangers, It's, it's really an incredible experience.
41:46
And yeah. Something I'll, I'll never
41:49
forget and I'll, I'll, I'm hooked now.
41:51
I'll keep doing it. So.
41:53
There's something about suffering communally that makes
41:55
it easier to smile in the in the moment, you know, you know,
41:58
you're not the only one. Quick aside, I, I left on the
42:03
first day of a bike packing trip in Oregon and day one out of the
42:07
campground. Take a right 60 feet into it.
42:10
It's a 900 foot vertical climb. The first time I've ever ridden
42:14
a fully loaded bicycle, you know, 60 lbs or whatever it was.
42:18
And I'm about 1/3 of the way up and I think I'm going to die.
42:23
And I'm like, this was a bad idea.
42:24
I got I'm going to quit. This is terrible.
42:26
And then as I looked, I lifted my head and looked up the hill.
42:30
I saw 1/2 a dozen other people who had started off, you know,
42:34
in the morning right before me also struggling and, or walking.
42:38
And I thought, oh, it's not just me.
42:40
And if they can keep going, then I'll keep going, you know, as
42:44
long as I can. And eventually, you know, came
42:47
up over that hill and then realized, oh, well, I can do a
42:50
hill that size. So I could probably do another
42:53
hill or another hill or a bigger hill or whatever and just kept,
42:57
you know, once 11 foot in front of the other.
42:59
But it helped to have that community to suffer with and
43:03
survive. You know, we're already kind of
43:06
coming up on, on on our time and, and we've got so much more
43:09
to talk about. So I want to make sure that I, I
43:12
get to a couple of key things. And the first one is, is you've
43:15
already shared some really valuable pieces of, of life
43:20
advice. I think at least I pulled some
43:22
out, but I'm wondering if there's any piece of advice that
43:25
you've received during this coffee journey or just in
43:28
general that you find yourself using and you'd like to share.
43:32
Yeah, I mean, I, I, I really do think that advice that Hessaya
43:38
shared with me of, you know, trusting your gut, I think
43:43
really is, is something that shouldn't be taken lightly.
43:48
I think a lot of people and a lot of applications outside of
43:52
coffee roasting is maybe I'm, maybe I'm projecting and I'm
43:55
just kind of speaking for myself here.
43:57
But you know, a lot of times I, I, I wind up getting, you know,
44:00
that analysis paralysis where I have information overload and,
44:05
you know, I'll, I'll read a book and it says, Oh, you must adhere
44:08
to these things to make a great coffee.
44:10
And then you go on YouTube and they're like, this guy's like,
44:13
oh, I did it this way. I'm like, well, that's not like
44:15
that thing. So now I'm conflicted and I'm
44:17
thinking, Oh my God, there's so many things out there.
44:19
But at some point you just got to say, like, I think I've
44:22
learned enough. I think, I think what I thought
44:24
initially will work. And if it doesn't, I have these
44:31
other resources to pull from. You know, obviously I need a
44:34
foundation, but I have these other resources to pull from
44:36
that I know how to tweak it now. You know, just experimentation
44:41
is nice scientifically my career, but it helps being able
44:50
to just like make small tweaks along the way and say like, all
44:52
right, this was great. And then you make change one
44:55
small variable and it's better. Well, now you know what you
44:58
changed to make it better versus changing a bunch of things.
45:01
And now you're like, oh, I screwed it up.
45:03
So that's like, yeah, that's definitely really helped me.
45:05
Is is trusting myself and I'll definitely I keep saying it.
45:11
I'm not sorry for it, but just like in general, be vulnerable.
45:16
It's OK to, you know, pour your heart and soul into something
45:21
and and kind of get laughed at for it.
45:24
But it's hard. And again, I've struggled with
45:27
it so much. But yet at the end of the day,
45:30
like every band is someone's favorite band, even Nickelback.
45:36
But it's just one of those things where if you believe in
45:40
yourself and and you kind of pour your heart and soul into
45:43
what you're doing, roasting coffee, running a coffee shop,
45:47
doing anything in life, but just kind of put it all out there.
45:51
And if you if you believe in it, then I think that's already
45:56
successful. Yeah.
45:58
You don't really have to worry too much about other people
46:03
opinion sometimes, although caveat that with if everybody
46:08
says what you're doing is pretty bad and maybe you should listen.
46:13
Well, on that note, you mentioned earlier things, things
46:16
have been growing, things are progressing.
46:19
There's been some attention lately.
46:20
What comes next? What's the future of Brain Wave
46:22
Coffee Roasters? Yeah, I really, I think this all
46:28
came on a lot faster than I expected.
46:30
So it's, it's forced me to really face that question.
46:34
And, you know, I, I think at this stage, we're still growing
46:38
organically and we have a lot of room for growth.
46:43
I think I'm making really meaningful connections right now
46:46
that are helping me after the competition, I've gotten the
46:51
chance to speak to many of the competitors, whether I reached
46:54
out to them or they reached out to me and we shared how we
46:58
approach the blend and how we approach the roasts.
47:01
And I got to speak to some people who, you know, I didn't
47:06
realize I'd ever get to talk to just people like very highly
47:10
experienced, highly decorated coffee roasters and talking to
47:14
me. And, you know, I think I'm
47:17
taking all of this and it's all so valuable.
47:21
I guess my point is, I'm, I'm still growing and there's so
47:25
much, so much growth to have so much to learn.
47:28
And I realistically, I, you know, brick and mortar is kind
47:33
of the goal at this point. And I'd like to, you know, I'm
47:37
putting a lot of thought and a lot of pen to paper to make that
47:42
a reality. I'll, I'll admit that I, I
47:46
started reading one of your books, well, the first
47:48
installment of your book. And I, I, you know, I picked it
47:52
up obviously 'cause you had advertised it and I saw it in
47:55
your, in your feed. But, you know, the storyline
47:58
kind of resonated with me, this idea of, you know, being stuck
48:03
at an office job and wondering like what what's in store for
48:05
me, what's in the future and just kind of being a little, you
48:09
know, wanting more out of life. And I think that's kind of where
48:15
I'm at is I had, I'm not going to say a midlife crisis.
48:20
I'm not old enough for that yet. I hope.
48:22
I don't know, it's close but. We're we're allowed to have two
48:25
or three now, OK, as technology speed everything up like we're
48:29
we're getting through a couple crises.
48:31
That's true. So I'm in in part maybe two of
48:35
my crises over my lifespan. And, you know, I was kind of
48:40
forced to think about my future. And you know, there's, there's
48:44
days at everyone's job that are just not ideal.
48:46
And I had a few opportunities come my way.
48:50
I'd say once in a lifetime, but it happened twice to open a
48:53
brewery and it was all invested, everything was laid out.
48:57
But I kind of had to put that aside for many reasons.
49:02
And through those conversations, though, with my friend, I was
49:06
going to do it with the, the outcome for both of us was
49:10
really like, this is the dream because this is something that I
49:17
would create that I would do. And at the end of the day, I, I
49:23
am fulfilled when I make those connections and I'm fulfilled
49:26
when I get to create something and share with somebody.
49:29
And I'm not as fulfilled when I'm kind of just typing away at
49:32
a computer or, you know, going somewhere to work.
49:34
And, you know, although my job is meaningful at times and I,
49:38
you know, this fulfilling in that sense, I, I think like what
49:42
I want out of life is to create something that I get to share
49:45
with my friends and my family and future family and, and, and
49:50
pass down and just get to say like, Hey, I made this.
49:52
I, I worked hard and I, I got to do this.
49:55
So, you know, I think the future, if we want to talk about
50:00
that is I'd like to transition to doing this full time.
50:04
It makes me happy it, you know, every time I get an order, like
50:09
my eyes, Oh my, wow, this is amazing.
50:11
And getting feedback from people's incredible and just
50:15
getting to share stuff. And yeah, it would be way more
50:18
fulfilling if I if I got to do this in person and then kind of
50:21
like, you know, be able to facilitate someone else's first
50:26
time they tried a coffee that blew their mind and wow, you
50:29
know, it would be so special for me to be on the other side of
50:32
that and, and, and then give that to somebody.
50:34
So I'm really putting a lot of thought and effort into writing
50:41
that plan down so I can make it a reality.
50:45
Well, I certainly wish you good luck in that, and I was hoping
50:49
you had read my coloring book and not one of the other ones,
50:51
but I certainly appreciate it. When you are out and about and
50:55
you're in the world, you're in Philadelphia, you stop for a
50:57
coffee. What are you going to order?
51:00
I was hoping you'd ask this because it's, it's a multi
51:03
faceted answer. I think the first thing that I
51:06
do is I'll look at the menu. I, I, I, I know other people's
51:09
answers and I agree with those, but I always look at the menu
51:13
and I find the most interesting tasting notes.
51:16
And maybe it's a bad thing to do, but I feel like, you know,
51:20
if, if, if I taste a coffee from a coffee shop prepared the way
51:24
that they intended on it and I could taste those like
51:27
outstanding. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm hooked,
51:29
I'm sold for life. I'm coming back every day.
51:33
So I yeah, I really look for those interesting things.
51:35
Obviously if I, you know, see a fun Colombian or Ethiopian, I'm,
51:40
I'm drawn to it. But I also like kind of a sucker
51:43
for cappuccinos. I think it's a really nice
51:46
blend, a good ratio of milk to coffee.
51:48
So I can't say I'm a very, very well versed in espresso.
51:56
I had a many bad ones before I started having good ones.
51:59
So I'm still scarred, but yeah, those are my 2GO TOS.
52:04
I'm actually, well, we've been chatting, I've been drinking
52:07
your thermal shock Columbia, in part because of the tasting
52:10
notes. It said Lychee.
52:11
And I was like, I don't even know what that means.
52:13
And. I'm just going to see what
52:14
happens here, Max. I really just appreciate the
52:17
time today and congratulations on on not just winning a
52:23
roasting comp. That's that's all well.
52:25
And good and, and I think valuable, but taking this step
52:28
into creating something of your own to put out in the world and,
52:31
and taking a chance to find out if anyone likes it or not.
52:35
I think that the emotional component can't be overlooked
52:38
there. And I think you did a great job
52:40
of, of describing it for the audience.
52:42
So thank you. Yeah, thanks a lot for having me
52:44
at this is, you know, really special to me.
52:47
This is I've, I've actually listened to your podcast a lot,
52:50
especially when I was trying to learn how to roast.
52:52
I'd had coffee smarter pulled up, trying to eke out some
52:56
information, see what I can do here.
52:58
And yeah, it's been, it's been a real treat to get to meet you
53:01
and and share the stage. So this is fun.
53:06
Oh I almost forgot, favorite Keanu Reeves movie.
53:09
You know, I, I, I, I don't know if anyone's ever said this
53:12
before, A Scanner Darkly. Oh no one sided on this show
53:17
all. Right.
53:18
Yeah, it's. Animated.
53:20
Yeah, like that weird rotoscope stuff.
53:22
I, Philip K Dick is my favorite author.
53:24
I love science fiction books. So when that came out, I was
53:27
like, I have to watch that. And I, it was just weird.
53:30
And I, I, I love it, but I also really like speed and I think
53:36
the plots are a little ridiculous.
53:37
And when I was a kid, I I thought it was insane.
53:40
But getting older I'm like. When I was when I was a kid
53:44
after I saw speed I was terrified to get on a city bus
53:46
for like years. So it now I'm all about public
53:50
transportation. Can't wait to get a car.
54:04
OK, some quick key takeaways from today's podcast.
54:08
Max is now and forever a champion coffee roaster.
54:13
He didn't realize that there were prizes man prestige
54:15
attached to the Husaya roasting competition.
54:18
He merely entered as an exercise to advance his craft and get
54:21
some unbiased feedback to the beans he was roasting.
54:26
With his background in environmental science, he is by
54:29
nature analytical. He's experienced at repetition
54:33
and setting up experiments that record data in increments.
54:36
If you were to brew a coffee. Roaster in a lab.
54:39
Those are some of the key skills.
54:42
Brew a roaster in a lab. See what I did there?
54:45
Brew a roaster. It was the experience of
54:49
communing and communicating with others that really drew Max into
54:52
coffee. He had experienced that before
54:55
with wine and is now trying to recreate it on a bigger personal
54:59
scale with Brain Wave Roasters. He brought up the vulnerability
55:03
that comes with selling something you've created.
55:06
It can be a little bit like screaming into the void.
55:09
You see someone buying something you made, you know they bought
55:12
it, but did they like it? Would they buy it again?
55:15
You want to reach out to them and ask, should I keep going
55:19
down this path? Am I making a huge mistake?
55:22
Please just tell me if everything was OK.
55:25
I'm so sorry if it wasn't. And 05 stars.
55:30
Awesome, thank you so much. On to the next order.
55:34
With his roasting championship blend of coffees, Max still
55:38
doubted himself. He thought he had botched it,
55:40
and even after the win he struggled to believe it was
55:43
real. And even then he wasn't sure he
55:46
deserved the accolades. But a chat with the ever wise
55:49
Emily from a, say, a coffee source, led him to the reminder
55:53
that he needs to trust his gut. And not only that, he needs to
55:57
believe he knows what he's doing.
55:58
He needed to hear it to allow himself to finally embrace it.
56:03
Finally, and I can say this with personal experience, analysis
56:07
paralysis is real. That's our show for today.
56:11
You can find a longer recap in our newsletter at
56:13
roastwestcoast.com. Be sure to follow Max and Brain
56:17
Wave Roasters online at brainwaveroasters.com and at
56:21
Brain Wave Roasters on Instagram.
56:23
Those links are in our podcast notes.
56:25
If you're listening today on Apple or Spotify, please tap the
56:29
follow button and give us as many stars as you feel we've
56:31
earned. If you are an analog human like
56:34
me, please tell a friend about the show.
56:36
It does really help. I'm always telling people about
56:38
Roast, our coffee packaging. Shout out to them.
56:41
They've been a huge support of this show.
56:43
You can find them online at rostar.com.
56:45
They're our presenting sponsor. And if you're trying to tell the
56:48
story of your small business, your home coffee roaster, your
56:52
burgeoning coffee roaster, they're an incredible support
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that will enable you to create a bag that best represents those
56:59
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57:01
We're also supported by some other great coffee industry
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roasting machines, me and my uncle Coffee Craft 42 coffee
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roasters, Relative coffee, and Cozy Canine coffees.
57:22
Before I go, I do have a scary coffee anecdote to share in
57:25
honor of Halloween, which is maybe my least favorite holiday.
57:29
Sorry if you're a Halloween person, this is just me.
57:32
But this is one of the more terrifying things I've ever
57:34
heard, and it does relate to coffee.
57:37
So, you know, if you know, if you can't handle scary coffee
57:40
things, you Fast forward a little bit.
57:42
This actually really happened to someone I know.
57:44
They ordered a shot of espresso at this faraway cafe.
57:48
I can't remember it exactly. They were telling me how they
57:51
watched intently as the barista ground the beans, tamp the
57:55
grounds, pull down on a long manual lever on the espresso
57:59
machine. One second, 2 seconds, 10
58:02
seconds, 3238. They told me how the syrupy
58:06
brown liquid filled their little espresso mug.
58:08
It was shoved across the counter to them.
58:11
They swirled it briefly with a spoon and put it to their lips.
58:14
And honestly, I I can see the look of terror on this person's
58:19
face as they're telling me the story.
58:21
They take that deep sip and a shiver, you know, a shiver goes
58:25
through their entire body into their horror.
58:28
The coffee was overextracted, terrifying.
58:36
That's the coffee people podcast for today.
58:39
Thank you for listening, for sharing this podcast, asking us
58:42
questions and being coffee curious.
58:45
The show is part of the Roast West Coast Coffee Network and
58:49
this episode is was has been written, produced, researched
58:53
and recorded by me. Ryan Wolt, wherever you find
58:58
yourself today, I hope it's with a fine cup of coffee.
59:01
Thank you for listening to us tell the stories of Coffee
59:04
People. Cheers, everyone.
59:18
Hey everyone, this is Ryan, the host of the Coffee Smarter and
59:21
Coffee People podcasts. I've mentioned on the show
59:24
several times actually, that I use Baraza grinders at home.
59:27
I found them to be consistent, durable, and frankly, a company
59:31
that I feel values their customers.
59:33
I recently became an affiliate partner with Baratza and if
59:36
you're in the market for a new grinder as well as a fan of this
59:39
podcast, I'd appreciate it if you'd use the link in the show
59:42
notes or on roastwestcoast.com to make the purchase.
59:46
Doing so will support the creation of this show and you
59:49
know you'll be getting a great grinder for your countertop.
59:53
Baratza is only the third company we've partnered with to
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do any sort of affiliate marketing and while that is
59:59
three more than we partnered with last year.
1:00:01
We're still fairly picky about it.
1:00:04
Thanks for supporting Roast West Coast by clicking the link to
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Burraza in this podcast's show notes and enjoy your new coffee
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Check out the Coffee Smarter Education podcasts.
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Coffee Smarter is designed to enable coffee drinkers to brew a
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You'll find both shows on your favorite podcast platforms or on
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