Latest / StartUp Health NOW Podcast / #236: Mel Walker, Otsuka:

Transcript

#236: Mel Walker, Otsuka: · StartUp Health NOW Podcast

• 0:00
  [gentle music] Mel, is, uh, it's awesome to have you here with us here on the second day of the Startup Health Festival.
• 0:08
  Um, why don't you just tell me a bit about the work that you're doing, uh, the position you have at Otsuka, and, um, yeah, why you're here. Okay.
• 0:17
  So I joined Otsuka to establish our market access capability, which is, uh, essentially dealing with the payer challenges in Europe.
• 0:24
  Um, and then about three years ago, I took on additional role, uh, to cover our digital health initiatives and bring some of those initiatives into Europe. Okay.
• 0:33
  Um, what are some of the unique challenges that you face in the European market? Okay. So Europe, uh, is a, is a challenging market from, uh, certainly from a pharmaceutical perspective.
• 0:44
  Uh, we have, uh, systems that are essentially single public payer systems. Um, and they really do want to get value out of the healthcare interventions that they, uh, put in place for the populations they serve.
• 0:57
  Um, however, I think that's both a challenge and an opportunity because if you can make something work in that market, then you can scale it up more rapidly.
• 1:05
  Um, some of the other sort of things that are different about Europe is we've had, uh, electronic patient records for a lot longer than you've had in the US.
• 1:13
  So there's actually a lot of, uh, very robust clinical data available out there. Okay. Uh, which means that connected care is a, a closer reality for us in, in Europe maybe- Okay... than in the US.
• 1:25
  So, so what practically do you do with all of that data? What, what does that look like? Well, so, so we, um, I mean, actually, that, that data is owned by, uh, patients and by the healthcare systems.
• 1:36
  Um, but you can collaborate with the healthcare systems to do, do things with that data. Mm. Uh, we've done some work around looking at risk prediction, for example, in mental health- Mm-hmm...
• 1:45
  trying to identify, uh, patients that are at most risk of relapse- Yeah... and then trying to make sure the healthcare system is able to target those patients- Yeah...
• 1:54
  uh, with the appropriate resources and interventions. Have you had success with those kinds of programs? Uh, yes, we have. We've had, you know, it's, it's very early days with that type of work.
• 2:03
  Um, but really, I suppose the, the things we're gonna be focusing more on in Europe is more the things that are adjacent to our pharma business. So- Okay...
• 2:10
  obviously, you've heard, uh, about digital medicine, our recent deal with Click Therapeutics, uh, and the opportunities- Remind me what that is, the collaboration with Click.
• 2:18
  Uh, so the collaboration with Click is to develop a, uh, in MDD, to develop a digital therapeutic to treat, uh, patients with MDD. Okay. Um, just walk us through what that looks like in, in the flesh.
• 2:29
  Um, so it's, it's essentially based on, um, on principles of psychotherapy, but using digital mediums to deliver that psychotherapy in the best possible, uh, way and the most engaging way for patients. Okay.
• 2:44
  Uh, you're here at the Startup Health Festival surrounded by hundreds, thousands of health innovators.
• 2:50
  What gets you most excited and optimistic about 2019 when you see the technology and the companies forming around you, fa- around you?
• 2:59
  Um, I'm very excited about what Otsuka's gonna be doing in the mental health space with the recent investments we've made, the extension of our collaboration with Proteus, and generally our sort of ethos in making a difference in mental health.
• 3:12
  Um, I think unlike other pharma companies, we really do believe that it's not just medicines alone that are gonna make the difference. Yeah.
• 3:19
  And you have to take a, a holistic approach to helping patients, both, uh, not only downstream, but also upstream as well. Yeah. So I'm excited about that.
• 3:28
  Um- How does the perspective on mental health, how is it different in Europe than in the United States in your experience?
• 3:36
  I actually think that we may have, um, we may have dealt with the stigma of mental health, uh, in certain markets a little bit, um, more effectively because I think for many years we've had public policy that tries to, uh, reduce the stigma around, around mental health and, and that type of, uh, illness.
• 3:55
  Um, we also have, um, uh, it's very clear that there's a very strong link between mental health and physical, uh, morbidity and mortality. Yeah.
• 4:03
  And I think the governments are recognizing that, and they're really targeting policies towards really investing further in this area because they know that if you treat mental health well, then you'll actually improve, uh, the health of populations as a whole on the physical side as well.
• 4:17
  Yeah. So, so what's next for the work that you're doing? Uh, what's sort of like the roadmap following the festival? Um, so, uh, obviously the Click, um, deal has just been announced. Mm-hmm.
• 4:28
  Uh, we're gonna be taking a, a, a good look at that and how we can think about, uh, the markets in Europe that might be appropriate for launching that type of intervention. That's exciting.
• 4:38
  Uh, the expanded, uh, collaboration with, uh, Proteus and the study that we're running in Europe at the moment to explore, uh, that opportunity is exciting. Talk to me a little bit about Proteus.
• 4:48
  I know that that was the, the basis of your, um, Abilify MyCite, uh, not the basis, but the technology behind it. Um, w- what's this expanded collaboration?
• 5:00
  Um, so the expanded collaboration, that really has dre- been driven out of the US organization, and, uh, but we in Europe will be, um, you know, docking into that and actually, you know, a part of that collaboration.
• 5:11
  Okay. Um, we are doing a study in, in, uh, Europe, which is looking at, um, the Proteus technology in more than one medicine, and so that's, uh, I, I suppose, unique.
• 5:21
  Um, and that will provide learning that will support our work- Yeah... in the US and also support our future work in Europe. R- remind me how unique a trackable ingestible pill is in the work that you're doing.
• 5:34
  I mean, is, is this really being done anywhere? So to my knowledge, it's the only true measure of ingestion. Um, and so with the other measures of adherence out, out there, they're not a true measure.
• 5:46
  They're a proxy measure. Yeah. So I think that is, uh, that is pretty unique, I think- Yeah... um, as far as I'm aware. Do you see that as the future?Uh, definitely.
• 5:55
  I, I think if you can really measure adherence in a robust way, then the clinical decisions that could be made for patients will be much more, uh, robust and effective. Yeah.
• 6:04
  Because if you know, uh, that a patient's, uh, clinical outcome is based on adherence to that medicine, then you know you might need to make a change in that medication. Yeah.
• 6:15
  Whereas if you don't know if they've been taking it or not, then actually you might change the medicine and it might be the wrong, uh, clinical decision. Yeah.
• 6:22
  So I think it really does support much better clinical decision-making. Mm-hmm. And it's part of a holistic approach- Mm... to, to dealing with mental health patients.
• 6:30
  We talk a lot at StartUp Health about global collaboration, how moonshots require radical global collaboration. Yeah. Otsuka, headquartered in Japan. We just talked downstairs to, um, uh, some CEOs from the US.
• 6:43
  You're in Europe. What does global collaboration look like for you practically? Yeah. And, um, what advice do you give to entrepreneurs here- Mm-hmm... who are kind of moving in that direction?
• 6:55
  Um, so first of all, I'd say that I think Otsuka is probably the best company I've worked at from a collaboration standpoint. Mm. And it's in our sort of, um, uh, history.
• 7:04
  So I, I heard a rumor, I don't know whether this is true, that, uh, when we used to acquire or make acquisitions in the past, Otsuka would choose only to acquire 49% of the company with a view to making sure they didn't change what they acquired, or what they were acquiring a stake in.
• 7:19
  Yeah. Now, even when we make full acquisitions of companies, we don't treat them like an acquisition, we treat them like a partner. Mm. So we set up a joint development and commercialization committee- Mm...
• 7:29
  which leads those businesses. Yeah. Um, so we...
• 7:32
  Whereas at previous pharma companies I've worked in, the acquisitions we make, we end up sort of integrating, uh, those companies, and they become the same as the originator company- Yeah...
• 7:42
  which means you lose the value of what you're, uh- Yeah... acquiring. So I think we're very good at that. Yeah. I think we have, um, uh, we have a, an, an ethos of collaboration, which is very positive.
• 7:52
  And I think it, I mean, makes us a good partner to work with. Yeah.
• 7:55
  Um, for entrepreneurs out there, I would, uh, really advise to, to start small, um, and think about, uh, trying to sort of, um, dominate a small geography or a small population first of all. Yeah.
• 8:10
  And doing that in very close collaboration with the healthcare providers.
• 8:13
  Because I think if you can really show that you can work with providers and deliver health outcomes with providers, then pharma will be more interested in with- in you as a result.
• 8:21
  But also, you will have got to proof of concept, and your customers or the, uh, healthcare providers you work with will become your ambassadors- Yeah... and will take your product forward for you. Yeah. Last question.
• 8:32
  What's your experience been like at the StartUp Health Festival? Here we are, end of day two. What's it been like? So I love the StartUp Health, uh, Festival, and in actual fact, uh, I came to JP Morgan last year.
• 8:43
  I spent a lot of time at this conference, uh, last year. Uh, this year, I've spent all my time, uh, here for the last two days. Wow. Great, great conference. Great energy. Great perspectives. Yeah.
• 8:53
  I always take, uh, something, uh, there's... Well, something I learn from every presentation I've seen- Awesome... which is sort of contributed to my thinking, uh, and my views on the world. So I really appreciate it.
• 9:02
  Awesome. Awesome. Okay. Thanks, Mel. Thanks for stopping by and for the work that you're doing. Thank you very much. All right.