Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 288: Viscera and Bones

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Ep. 288: Viscera and Bones · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast, coming at you shirtless,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: severely bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: He can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: for every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer, Yan,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: He's having some trouble with the zipp around his shorts.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I was wondering if you'd like to talk about this
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: on the Era. The zipper on his shorts does not
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: provide enough opening. Yes, now someone might see where I
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: might be going with this, and I'm not. It's it's not.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: What can't come out is that he can't get his
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: hand in there. Yeah, chase his hand and he tries
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: to get his hand in there and it pops the button.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Very disappointed. He's returning these short m hmm. I've had
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: I had a pair of jeans that were like a
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: low rise I think I didn't notice when my bottom
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: they were like a low rise cut, which means that
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: they still got to have the cross in the same place.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: But because the waist up like a lower as neck tattoo.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: No no, no, you don't have a butterfly tattooed back there.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: But buyer, beware of short zippers. I might be revealing
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: too much here. Am I the only person that when
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: they need to unzip, they also unbuttoned? No, my six
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: year old does that. Not only does he do that,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: he drops him down to the to the back of
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: his knees. Okay, I don't do that. See, thank you.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: But yet I don't know. You might be younger. You
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: are younger, but you might be used to this different
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: style of pants than I am. That just always have
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: short zippers, and thus you're used to just always unbuttoning.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Yanni was raised during an era of generous zippers, big
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: long zippers. What what what? What's happened? Then? People got tight?
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: People got tight? Well, I'll say what's happened in this country?
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: People got tight with zipper material. Phil joined today by
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: historian Ted Blue Daniel Boone his story like the first
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: frontier historian, former professor in the history department of Franklin University.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: That's because you retired, not because you got fired or anything.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Right now, it's a Murray State University. Why does it
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: say Franklin Universe? Because I Franklin is my middle name.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Your middle name, I knew that that was my fault.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: And I don't have my own university. I'm working on that,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: you know, like a universe. Thinking about the zipper issue,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking, you know, Daniel Boone had a loincloth and
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: uh sash. You don't have you just go from the
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: side you don't. It works better. I would have. I
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: would have probably dribbled on it. Did me. I was
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: probably sleep his name his middle name, Ted Franklin Blue.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Murray State Universe. Yeah, they'll appreciate that better.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Back home we started on school. I didn't roll, man,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I'd do a double major. Well, thank you you and
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: major major and Boone and Kenton, Daniel Boone and the
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: miner and Simon Kenton and a banjo player. Did I
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: mention that already? Yeah? I did that for several years.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I mean I still pick, but yeah. I dropped out
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: of college actually to to play banjo. It was all
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: I had, a free, free riot, it was all paid for,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: but I said, no, I want to play, and so
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: that's what I did for two or three years. Yeah.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: And um Done in Florida, you know, kind of a
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: no name, but we played the same Southeastern circuit. Does
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: um Bill Monroe and Luster Flat and Ralph Stanley. Ralph
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: people saw the movie Oh Brother, Where art thou? He's saying,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: oh Dad, he's saying that, and uh, Ricky Skaggs and
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Um Keith Whiley We're playing with Ralph denn and Marty
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Stewart was about thirteen or fourteen, was playing with Um
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Luster Flat, and Vince Skill was in high school. He
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: was playing with the blue Grass Alliance. And then there
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: was me who nobody knew and still can't get my
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: name right seven years later. So I want to know
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: if they was it still paid for when you went
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: back three years later? It was not. I moved to
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Kentucky to play in a band and and that didn't
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: work out so well. Then I was kind of reduced
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: to Wendy's and painting gutters. And then I ran trap
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: lines for four years and I was thinking about going
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: down to the Gulf and maybe work on some or
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: breakdown there, like commercial diving type stuff. And my wife said,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: why don't you go back to school. And she's always
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: been kind of the brain to the blue outfit, and
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: I us a lot safer, Plus I can be on land,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: and that's what I did. Yes, you were you on
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: a full ride Bangel scholarship. And now my my father
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: was a veteran of World War two and he had
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: the g I bal he passed on when I was
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: a boy and uh transferred, Yeah right, yeah, it's a
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: good gig. And then he was a a male man,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: and so you also had civil service benefits. And so
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: as long as I stayed in and didn't drop out
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: for more than one year, I was it was paid for.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: But I dropped out and staid, I want to play banjo.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: That's where the that's where the money is. Did you
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: go on to so? Did you you go on? You
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: went on to get like a doctorate? No? I never did.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I I went back. I actually majored in wildlife biology,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: but I couldn't pass chemistry. My actual interest then and
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: largely still are we're theology. I wanted to study particularly
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: bullshark behavior and uh, either that or herpetology, and study
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: particularly Eastern I'm in backs and deal with habitite issues
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: with the quotalist adamant aias the Eastern diamond back. And
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: but I but I loved history, and so when I
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: realized that that was not gonna happen, because I couldn't
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: pass chemistry. I just sat down one day with the
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: curriculum guying, I go, what do I like? And I know,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: what can I do? And so I went to history
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: and they were having had American Indian studies. They had
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: the American West, and I said, I love this stuff.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: And I was in Kentucky, and um, when I was
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: a boy, I was really hung up on Daniel Boone.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: I mean Mania and third fourth, fifth grade. I mean
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I literally told my parents in fourth grade, and my
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: sister will be hearing this, she can probably confirm it.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I said, I'm I'm not going to study any more
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: m math and sentis DIAGRAMM and I just want to
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: study Earl Scruggs on the banjo and Daniel Boone. And
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: that didn't go over well, But that's what you did. Yeah,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: pretty much. I kind of went to a mountain Man
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: period and I like John Wayne and the Alamo. By yeah,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: it's pretty much Boone. And then uh and by junior high,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: you know, I start seeing cheerleaders and stuff and I said,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: this board of life than Daniel Boone and uh, but cheerly, yeah,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: not me personally. Yeah, it wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't me personally,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: but uh but yeah kind of kind of. And and
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: then we moved to Kentucky, Like I said, my wife
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: and I her name is Levina, which by the way,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: was also the name of one of Boone's daughters. Oh
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: that's cool, Yeah it is. It's really kind of unusual.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: And when I got back to Kentucky, Um, I happen
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: to go by one time there was a flintlock shooting
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: exhibition and uh, I said, wow, and it it really
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: struck a nerve. And then I read Alan Eckert's book
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: The Frontiersman about that's a tremendous book. I mean, uh,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Simon Kenton and too Kumpsa and it it just all
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, I was dreaming as a kid again
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: about you know, Torch Cavin's and um a phrase ballhead
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: work clubs and flint locks and powder horns. Taking note
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: of that word club hanging over your head. Yeah it
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: was yeah that one. Wow, Yeah it was that was
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: that specifically for me? Or do you steal that from
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: bagore gifted? That was from West study. Here's Steve used
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: this instead of a bow? Hey, uh, but you were
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: actually I want to we gotta hit a couple of things.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: But I want to talk about one other thing. You
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: were an extra and last of the Mohicans. How long
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: did you hang around there? I did that. It was
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: almost eight weeks. It was just under eight weeks. I
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: kept waiting to get killed in the massacre scene because
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: I had it all all ready to go with this
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: buddy of mine from Sky to Oklahoma. He's a Shawnee
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: and I go like, Wow, I'm gonna get killed by
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: a real Shawnee. And uh that it didn't happen because
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: up with the last scene with the big massacre, that
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: it kept raining and that valley was inundated. So I
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: had to come back and to Murray State and teach
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: world sieve no one ever killed you. No, No, I
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: got killed a bunch. I made three hundred bucks one time,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: getting one night, I made three hundred bucks and six
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: hours getting killed. But you know there was cannon shredding,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: and you you had these kind of like minor bumps
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: that for guy. You had this the real stunt men,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: and then they had the people that weren't that bright.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: They would be willing to do stuff for more money.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: That's kind of the category I was in. And so
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: you had your you had your own personal get up
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: on no. No, well, no, I had whatever they had.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: You know, I would typically you didn't bring your own
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: period dress. They gave you the dress I wanted to,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: but no, I would be a British red Coat for
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: a while with the brown best busket. Then they you
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: could have paid me enough to do that. Then they
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: switch off and they said, okay, be a French guy
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: for a while, and so you you put on the
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: French marine outfit and uh, you get the Charlotteville musket.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Then they switched your back and a lot of it
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: was hurry up in a way. But yeah, it was
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: a fascinating thing. I mean, I knew that I would
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: never have an experience like that again. And um, I
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: mean you can't just go anywhere and see a or
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: full scale reproduction of Fort William Henry. Uh seventeen fifty seven.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: And the first night on the set where we really
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: got past the exercises because we the first week was calisthenics.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Captain Dale die he wrote, he co wrote um top
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Gun and Platoon. He trained all those guys. He was
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: twenty one year marine vet. He's like, all right, yeah,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: he just worst profanity in the world. Quite colorful. But
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: you know, once we got past the week of training
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: with him, Um got out there in the first night,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: you know, take one and you would have the pyrotechnics
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: going off. I fire a cannon of a French marine.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I took my coat off so my mom could maybe
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: see me, and uh, hey mom, and so um, you
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: know they had eighteen hundred Indians just come up out
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: of the shadows and you just get chill bumps and
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: the pyrotechnics are going. You go like, you'll never see
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: anything like that. And so did you die with dignity
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: or were you like uh most of the time there,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: sometimes I was indignant because I realized how little I
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: was getting paid for this, and so you know, I
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: call back and try to live again down you know.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Plus I had a French name Balloo. And um, so
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: you got killed by shrapnel? Did you get knife or
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: anything like that? Every it's nothing cool right there, but no,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: mainly and it left me with really bad tenitis. I mean,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I my ears are still popping because the pyrotechnics. Yeah,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: but they gave us a little ear plugs and so
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: that we're like that was close enough for the period
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: period of boom. Yeah, I don't think that the Greeks.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I think the Greek's had it down, you know, because
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: it's sponges. Uh, Okay, we'll get back to Daniel Boone.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: We're gonna get into Daniel Boone hardcore big time. I
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: hope we do. Know What's what's interesting to me and
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: this is why I'm fascinated. Boone has been dead two
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: hundred and one years this year. Yeah, and so why
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: are we talking about last year and anniversary was death? Well?
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I had a book come out then, and it came
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: out the same day that he died, September twenty and
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: I was like, but what was going on then? COVID?
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: So what? And it was about the tidle of it,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: you know, his where's Daniel Boone Buried? I mean that's
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: not actually the title. I can't remember his last day,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Daniel Boone, his last days in Missouri and the strange
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: fate of his remains because there's a lot of controversy
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: about where was he buried? So I said, well, this
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: is great, it will be the two anniversary and it
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: will come out and and uh COVID did it come out? Yeah,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: September twenty six didn't sell like hotcakes thirty five cents
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: of stack. What do you mean that's how hotcakes sell.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: It's a Southern joke. They don't say that in Michigan.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I guess it sell like hotcake thirty five cents of stack.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: It's a bluegrass joke. Uh okay, but yeah, we're north
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: of that. We don't get blue grass claim get joke. Oh,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: after Yanni presented to us, So if you go back
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: in a couple of episodes, Yanni presented to us about
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: him being out with this with Bart George doing mountain
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: lion research and they're practicing all that. Like I'm telling
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: you this because you don't know this. They're they're testing.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: I'm interested, though, Well get them out. Let's get a
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: mountain lion hanging around. Boots Son Daniel Morgan had a
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: real bad experience with a bound lion. So yeah, I
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: love bound lions. So you tuned in. Yeah, let's say
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: you get a mountain lion hanging around and they want
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: to find a way to haze it. They want to
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: like get it so it's not habituated to humans, spook
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: it off. What they're what they're working on is a
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: going uh put a collar on the line. And they
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: approach it with sounds. They actually played this podcast to
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: the mountain Lion to see at what point like the
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: zipper part a little but a real short as for
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: something so checks out. You gotta follow. What I'm saying
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: is I'm gonna tell you something complicated. They play this
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: podcast to a mountainline just blasting it is not I'm
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: not and they and they got a radio. They already
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: got a collared they got a radio Colorado, so they
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: can tell at what point it's spooks from human voices,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: at what point it's runs off. Then they go in
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: right away and re catch it with dogs and harass
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: it a little bit. Then you're going in the future
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: and see, like, did that experience of human voices cause
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: it to want to keep its distance? The fact that
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: you're playing human voices and then harassing it with dogs.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Can you can you sort of like train the cat
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: two move away and not want to be around human voices.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Jim Halfminger wrote in about how if you played the
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: show open where you can hear tree falling, that he
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: feels that that would speak particularly well to the mountain lion,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: who's not gonna like that sound up in a tree Well,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: the thing is is that when they hear our podcast,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: it is, uh, the mounta lion is still on the ground,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: It's not when it's up on a limb, right, But
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: even then, you know, mountain lions spend a lot of
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: time in the woods almost all the time, and so
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: I guess it depends on what habitat they live in.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: But even then, the sound of a falling tree might
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: be alarming to a mountain lion. But you say they
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: calculated that then, and they only play they skip ahead, Yeah,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: I think yeah. Bart mentioned something about that. Yanni suggests
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: that they don't even play the ads to them because
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: they don't want to like encourage consumerism. Yeah in mountain
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: lions cougars. Yeah, alright. He also sent in a sign
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: that he took a picture of. Do you want to
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: read the sign? But I don't really understand the sign.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: It's a real sign British Columbia British Columbia Parks. Looks
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: like they put it up. It's a it's a warning
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: sign and it says very large letters cougar in area,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: then a little bit smaller letters, please stay on trails,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: travel in small groups, and do not capitalize, do not
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: allow men under thirty to travel alone. It's a statement ahead. Yeah,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: if you're a young female, have at it. And I
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: guess even said like under four team, but like what,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: maybe there's a particular disposition generally about or or irresponsible.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Maybe I think that's that's trying to protect men under
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: thirty from themselves, Yeah, from poor destision making. That's a
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: weird like, are you guys missing the joke here? Cougar
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: is another name for like an older woman who we're
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: holy cow, Phil, God, Bills, smart, Hello, fingering. Now it's
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: probably upside down of the stupid ass jokes. I don't
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: realize they're jokes. Jim, really screw this O God, don't
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: send subtle jokes, man, I like, like you're dead. That's good, Phil,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I mean I don't think it's that good. I think
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: it's just this is mostly embarrassing for you guys, very
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: embarrassing cow man. Yeah, I know I need again. This
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: comes back to the difference in age. Difference in ages
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: here because I used to partake in cougar jokes, but
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: it's been twenty years. Yeah, I mean yeah, it's it's
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: outdated for sure. Oh yeah, I'm so um. That shows
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: how woke. I am. There you go. You've moved past it.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: So you're saying cougars don't even exist anymore. I mean
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: people probably still use the term, but I mean it's
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: not in the main. I mean there's a whole show
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: called cougar Town that was like the peak of it.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Older women exactly. No, it's about Courtney Cox looking for
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: men under thirty. Um. But now, oh man, dude, that
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: is probably the most embarrassing thing. Yeah. I got half
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: mine to edit that whole thing out and make it
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: that I got the joke. Okay, hey, you know what,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: let me let me do uh oh, let me say this. Okay,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: you patch this in and I'm gonna say, oh, Yanni,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: you obviously don't get the joke older women. Okay, put
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: that prowling, prowling for younger, for young There you go,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: put that all in. Patch that together. Yeah, we're losing Ted,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Ted's Ted's losses. Well we're gonna we're I'm good, We're
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: gonna come find him in a minute. We had a
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: correction to dude, we're talking about sex and chicks, chickens, sexing,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: baby sexing baby chickens, and I was saying that with
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: the increased popularity of backyard poultry raising, of which you
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: needs a participant. UM people go out and they buy birds,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: and then then they are often surprised. They buy chickens
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: to lay eggs, and they're often surprised to find that
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: that one day it wakes up in the morning and
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: goes right. And I was talking about how UM I
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: felt that there was some issue where it was extremely difficult.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Two sex chicks ends, young chicks, young chickens right, and
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: a guy, a poultry guy from a poultry grower in Delaware,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: says it's really not that commercial poultry grower check this out.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: He says male chicks have of even feather follicles at
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: the edges of their wings, whereas females will have notably
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: long and short feather follicles. He says this strategy is
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: pretty spot on. There's also vent sexon which Branch showed
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: us with ducks, where you squeeze the feces out of
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: the chick, which opens up the chicks anal vent called
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: the cloaca, slightly allowing the chicken sex or to see
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: if the chick has a small bump, which would indicate
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: that the chicks a male. Now you can if you
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: want to sex a duck, you can open that cloaca
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: up and it looks like a little worm in there,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: like an inside outworm or worm, like a little wormy
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: structure in there. And that when engorged with blood a
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: second time, and gorge has been used in reference on
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: this show and this year. Yeah, and gorged with blood,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: you can tell that it's a male or female. You
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: know that, Johnnie, I did not. Why would you m
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Are there certain duck species that the males and females
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: look the same from the outside, or kill an immature immature?
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Do you know about this? You know, I don't, But
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I was just thinking that it's hard to sex beaver too,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: you know, I think the the organs or internal we
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: actually rehab one can be done when you skin them,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: you know right off? Yeah, yeah, I mean, but yeah,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: but that's kind of intrusive, you know, put them up
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: on the It often leads to lead to we rehab
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: one for six or seven months, and it got to
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: be kind of onerous, and we did. Boy, girl, you
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: took care of a baby beaver? We did? I know?
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: At that time, I was teaching at Murray State and
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: some I went into class one day and it was
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: a big box in their cardboard box and I I go,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: what's this and they said it's a beaver. I thought
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: it was a joke, like, oh, okay, sure, I'm game.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: I put up and it really was. It was a
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: kid beaver. And um, there had been some frat guys
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: out there, uh, I think blowing up dens or something.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I don't you know. And so there
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: was just one kit that had survived all of that.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: And these sorority girls, I don't know if they were
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: a O pie maybe Alpha gams try sig I'm not sure.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: But anyway, the thrority girls not important? Is that relevant? No,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: give him a shout out? Anyway, that they brought the
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: baby beaver, and I went, what am I gonna do?
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: And so I write it. I would think I would
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: lecturing that day, I'll Mesopotamia. And every time I had
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: paused talking about ARROGANTSHA would go and I'd go and
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: they go, uh. And so I said, okay, we're gonna
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: take it home. So we took it home and we
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: bottle raised it. It's kind of like, um, remember the
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: the guy Archibald what was his name? He thought he wasn't.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: He passed himself off as an Indian. He called himself
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Gray Owl. The only archballd I knows Ruttledge And so, yeah,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: we rehab this beaver for a while, but you know
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: he had an understanding landlord. But you know, after a while,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: you gotta start replacing doors and we start, you know,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: replacing table legs, and so the beaver chew that stuff up.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean the teeth they grow all the time.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: That they got to. But but we never I knew
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: it was a boy or girl. That's the point you
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: back to the relevant. We didn't know if it was
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: a boy or girl, so we just called it baby
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: baby beaver. Then he got to be less of baby
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: and um, so it was pretty good and speckled where
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: with baking over the top with no he just kidding
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: you turned loose. We found a beaver rehab her up
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: in northern part of Kentucky and took it up there,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: and um, hopefully it stayed out of you know, three
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: conno bears. M hmm. Beaver always shine. Speaking of beavers,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: we had another craction. Some people like real riled out
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: that I screwed this up. So I was saying, how
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: sni airs used to be snares and they got rebranded
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: as caval restraints. I was wrong, Uh, A cabor restraint
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: has a relaxing lock on it. I thought like a
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: relaxing lock was a snare with the like what kind
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: of locked the relaxing lock on a snare was like, no,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: very big difference, very big difference. A few people out
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: there who carry tons about snares. A snare is a
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: when when they're using the term snare, they're using talking
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: about a dispatch or kill type trap. A caval restraint
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: because because the mechanism never relaxed, and every time it moves,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: it just cinches, and you'd rig it up so that
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: you'd rig it up, you know, so that there's like entanglements.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: You know, you might like rig it to a tree
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: to wrap around the tree and tighten up and kill it.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: But they're saying a restraint is rigged different, different lock.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: You don't have, you don't have any kind of impediments
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: around it that might cause it to get tangled up,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: and just rigged very much to keep the thing alive.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Caboris ranks, folks. I thought it was interesting that the
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: one guy wrote in from somewhere in the desert southwest
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: as a trapper, and he said that it's very important
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: for them to use them, not because they like, you know,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: for some sort of animal welfare, but because in their conditions,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: if they use a kill snare, that can lose that
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: animal in the matter of hours. But if it's kept alive,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: then they can dispatch it. And when when I said,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: when I say lose the animal, like, they would lose
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the hide because of the hot conditions. So they use
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: that type of snare so that preserves the hide. You
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: want something else, that guy said, He said, I would
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: that a fellow trapper wouldn't know the difference. But we
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: will forgive you on this one. Can't uh here, here's
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: a good story Krim was telling me about. Someone sent
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: this to us. There's a guy in May. This is
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: this is this is a real conundrum. I don't have
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: I don't have an opinion. Real conundrum. A guy in
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Maine builds a house float Basically, it's like a shed
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: on a raft. I mean, it's pretty sweet looking, like
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: you could sleep in it. You can. He builds like
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: a raft, puts a shed on it. In southeast Alaska,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: they're everywhere. Well, this is not there, though, but this
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: is where it gets rich. Builds a raft, builds a
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: shed on it so you can hang out and sleep
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: in there, puts a little upper deck on there with
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: a cable like railing for like a deck, brings it
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: out to the local lake and says, hey, you're allowed
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: to take a boat wherever you want an anchor it,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: and just moves into it, much to the consternation of
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: people that live around the lake. Other houses on the
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: lake don't seem to bother them, but they are very
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: perturbed that this guy is living on their leg in
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: his raft shed. His argument is that show me where
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to anchor a boat anywhere I want.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: It's public water. I don't have an opinion about it. Yeah,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: kind of rooting for the guy. Two. But then he
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: says one person says how he docked up a few
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: hundred feet for their house and spent the whole summer partying.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Someone claimed he had like people in and out that day,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: and he said he had never had more than I
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: think a couple. And he said anyone on the lake
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: is welcome to come out bring their kids and jump
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: off the roof. It's open to anyone to party. They
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: say he can have as many as sixteen boats tied
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: up to it at once. But I don't know what
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: the hell kind of boats they're talking about. He says
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: that's not true. Anyways, they're going after they're trying to
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: pass the ordinance. Now about mooring, I don't have an
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: opinion about it. Now, I grew up on a little lake.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: If some yeah, if somebody an if someone, it's okay.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: But if all of a sudden there was a hundred,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: I'd say, as long as the guy doesn't have a
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: stereo going like twelve hours a day. But if there's
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: all of sudden, you can't go. You can't go water
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: ski because there's too many float houses. Oh sure, you
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: think this guy will attract like a bunch more people
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: like it'll catch you think about it. You can't afford
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: the house that's on the shore because it's a million bucks,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: But you can build yourself a little house float for
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know, k I'm guessing you could do pretty good.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Karn likes the Oh he's got it on pontoon floats dead.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's pretty cool. Alright, it's
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: like Ted Kazinski. It's like Ted Kazinski's place on floats.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: That's a it's a real conundrum. May they did the
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: mask of they socially distant? I do not know. They
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: don't get into that level detail. And they don't get
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: into waste disposal. M Ellsworth, Maine. I'm sure he's got
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: a composting to If you live near Ellsworth, Maine, I
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: would I would go out and party with this gentleman.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Quietly party with this gentleman so he doesn't get in
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: more trouble. He's got kids out there with them. If
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: I was living out there, I might think about quickly
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: building one myself, getting it out there, because then you'd
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: be grandfathered in. Get out there now. Yeah, once they
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: make those those rules, you know nobody else you'll have
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: one of the two because you have a wood stove,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: and oh yeah, it'd be great. Idea. Let me get
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: you there. Another correction, but I don't feel like getting
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: into by why to talk about the nature of the correction.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: So this whole dog, like this whole german. If you've
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: been listening to the show, this whole like people just
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: a bicker in about attributes of obscured German hunting dog breeds.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, they wear me out, man. Yeah, there's
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: basically between Uh, German wire hair pointers and a dog
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: is called a jow hour. I believe it's how you
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: pronounce it. It's like, well, actually the draw th hour
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: has thirteen beard hairs upon birth, and the German wire
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: hair ranges from nine to eleven beard hairs. This is like,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: oh my god, it never ends, man, dog, I have not.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Our our next door neighbors had aim, remember, and it
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: it held all the time. Whenever there'd be a cyrene
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: in Orlando, there would be a lot of syrens and
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: my dog would go. My father would go out and
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: his underwear and it's pretty the hose across the lugust
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: from my hedge and try to quiet that dog now.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: And uh. The lady her name was Irene will lead
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: the last name anonymous. But but but she saw my
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: dad out there and his undershort spraying the hose and
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: didn't realize that that was my dad. And so she
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: called my mom and said, Mara, I don't want to
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: scare you, but there's a man outside and there's underpants
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and she goes, thank you, Irene, Frank get in here
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: so now, But it's a wimer rammer. Are they bird dogs?
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I believe so well. I mean it's like Ronnie does
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: have Ronnie baby does have one in his in his correction,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: which which you just have to explain it next time
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: you're on Ronnie. But he does have one thing they
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: never do. See. He's back to this sharpness and hardness test.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: There's some debate amongst the German hunting dog community about
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: whether this is fact or fiction about making your dog
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: duke it out with various small mammals, various midsized mammals.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Ranny points out that the sharpness these are sharpness tests
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: or hardness tests. You never do it on a test day.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: It's separate from a test day. He goes down to
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: say this, the fox part is in the test, did
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: danielle Oh, here's the other update the dog. You know,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Daniel is donating the dog to our auction house oddities
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: which started this whole. That dog is now pregnant. What
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: do you call it when you're pregnant and they put
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: that little wand over your belly. Sot the mother of
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: the puppy that was gonna be auctioned off for the
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: puppy that was gonna be auctioned off as already pregnant. No, no,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: no, no no, the dog that will burd the puppy that
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: we will auction off in the auction house of oddities.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: The way you just said, it can't sound like a
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: puppy was was pregnant? No Irish Irish puppy was that
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: old joke Irish twins? Anyhow? Uh? What was I getting? That?
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: The dog's pregnant, the puppy is on its way. There's
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: at least five of them in there. They did a
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: ultrasound on the dog, and that guy is talking about
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: all this German dog stuff, which I like. But Ronnie
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: goes on to say this, here's the test that they
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: do that involves a dead fox. Okay, get yourself dead fox,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: tie it to a chord, give that cord to a judge.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: The judge then drags the fox two. You can tell
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: where talking about European stuff because it's a meters not yards.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Drags a fox two and leaves it behind a rail
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: or a crawl of sorts. Okay, drag the dead fox
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: all around, put it in a crowd. The dog gets
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: there by nose, which Ronnie says is not a big deal.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: But what is a big deal is the dog has
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: to jump into the corral, gray the dead fox out
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: of there, jump out and return it to their owner handler.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: That test is referred to as the fox in a box.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: And he goes on to say true ship. There so
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: no doubt. Someone right in to tell us how that's
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: not actually true, And I think maybe we need to
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: That sounds like some doctors ship. Actually that should be
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: another shirt. We should make shirt foxing socks in a box.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Do the the macro fructification T shirts coming along nicely?
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be like a hundred What are you waving off? Ted?
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Again is wondering what we're talking about. It doesn't matter
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: because because that's the last thing and now we're getting
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: back in. But I'm saying I was just like waving
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: him off, as in like the macto, I can't pronounce it. Well,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: I've got a question, Steve, because you're you've been saying
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: it more correctly. Are we getting the Do the T
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: shirts have the incorrect to word on it macro fructation
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: or do they have the real one, which was macro fruit?
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: What would be a better What would be a better?
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Better T shirt would be the email chain of people
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: arguing about this. Okay, I eventually what was the consensus.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: My role here, my role here at the company allows
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: me to have final say on on certain things, and
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: I and and uh and one of those things was
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: what this T shirt would say on it. I felt
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: that I was so close to right that I wanted
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: to have the right word. So the shirt is a
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: collection of beautiful mushrooms, a sketch of a collection of
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: beautiful mushrooms. And it says simply macro fructification, not macro fructation.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Because the problem is it's so my bad word, my
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: wrong word was so close to the right word that
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: it's not really like, not that funny anymore. And even agreed,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: he's like then it just as confusing. It's only like
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: a hundred of these shirts. We're gonna sell them. They'll
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: be gone in an instant. We'll need to do has
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: been has it been designed yet? Designs sharp looking shirts? Okay,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: I was going to make a suggestion, there's that's too bad.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: We need we'll need to make more. I think the
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: demands it's a hundred forty four because they sell them
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: by the dozens. Apparently eggs traps and apparently T shirts
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: are sold by the dozen. Well, we get more in
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: if they get sold out quickly. No, it's a one off.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: What's what's the price on these? A few hundred bucks
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: of hocks? You know what? I feel like there's a
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: lot of demand for and we should do again since
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: we're on it. No tell me T shirts is a
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: block T shirt rip off? A hundred forty? Were those
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: buggers Fox in the Box is going to it would
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: be Ronnie flip blocks. See now just to clear up now,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: now we're back to talking to you. Yeah, great, it's uh.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: I'm glad I came up from Kentucky to hear about
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: all this. It's uh. But that that's that's that's good
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: because I've never been to Montana. I've never been this
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: close to Canada, you know, like I wanted to thing
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: maybe has some Neil Young angst or something. And yeah,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: I know you're saying Darryl Hannah, maybe you know she'd
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: been to Canada' bet with. I've seen Gordon Lightfoot twice live.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Really Yeah, he had a great guitarist back in the sixties,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Red Shake, great acoustic guitars. He did, like if you
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: could read my mind the guitar parts read Steve, I'm
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: reading your mind. Tell us what a long hunter was. Yeah,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: a long hunter was a professional hunter that across the Alleghenis,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: across the Blue Ridge. They came from western Virginia, western
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: North Carolina, eastern Tennessee. They supplanted the Indian in the
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: deer skin trade. And it could be either seasonal your
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: hunt deer, or it could be year round. You can also,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: like Boon did, by the second and third frost, you
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: start trapping beaver and then as the season rolls around again,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: you kind of switch off and by April May you're
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: you're killing deer again. But yeah, it was a They're
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: kind of like the fore runners to the mountain men.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: But of course the mountain men there. Number one quarry
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: is what the Rocky Mountain trappers wanted what and for
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: the long hunter, the number one quarry was the deer. Yeah,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: white tailed deer. And uh. And in both case his
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: fashion drove it and uh and it was male fashion
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: and male fashion, male fashion, I mean women, you know,
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: you know they had some deer skin dresses, I guess
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: and whatever and uh, but yeah, it was it was breaches, saddles, shoes, gloves,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: the fancy yellow pumps she wanted to wear. We went
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: ballroom dancing, and uh, they were taking out deer literally
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: by that they were making shoes. They were making like
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: pump shoes with deer hide. Yeah, typically died yellow. Ye.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: It was a huge It was a huge industry in London.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: You know, London was was actually the one of the
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: global centers of white tailed deer processing. And yeah, and
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: and there was a number it was a cottage industry.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: There was a number of tanneries of course in the
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: American colonies as well. And it was kind of ad hoc.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: It wasn't as well. Awkrutizes out a word as like
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: the Hudson's Bay Company which begins in sixteen seventy and
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: that really is uh well smoothly oiled. And you know,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: you had a kind of a pack order of who's
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: gonna control it. You had particulous record keeping. Yeah, and
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: maybe they even had like it was unionized like gilded
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: and you even had laws as far as like high requirements.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: You had weight requirements, religious requirements. You could union it
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: was like in your contract you had to pause every
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: hour and smoke your pipe. It would be fine and
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: let the boyage. You're singing in the Creative Boi. And
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: you know you had really like those French Canadian beaver trappers.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: The guys had like had like in their contracts. Man,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: every hour we can we can stop and sing our
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: chances And I don't know what they're saying. How used
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: to you know Alotta? Oh yeah, I'll tell you exactly
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: what they used to sing. I grew up in Michigan, man,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: we studied all this stuff. Yeah it paddle your canoe along.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: We studied this stuff in the core SI and uh yeah.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: But but you never had anything like that with with
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: the Mountain I accuse me with with the with the
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Long Hunters and um, and there was never any like
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: with the Rocky Mountain papers. You know, you would have
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: your Manuel Liza's and your John jacob as stores and
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: people that really hit the Jackpott and became and you
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: never really quite had that with the Long Hunters. But
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: ultimately there's that that's an interesting point you're bringing up
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: that um not only it's like so decentralized, but like
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: America's first millionaire was a guy that got involved in
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: the beaver trade. But I never thought about that that
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: with all this like in that boon era of the
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: white tail hunters, didn't they weren't like producing millionaires at
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: least not at least not ones. We know that that's true. Well,
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: what was he the first millionaire? I thought it was
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: George Washington, but he did it on the land. No,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: I thought ast was America's first million crank can find
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: out for us when you get off at Astor Place
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: in New York the subway station Aster Place subway station,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: there's beavers in the tile work. Wow. Yeah, yeah, there's
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: beavers in the tile work of the subway station New York,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: at Astroplace. I spent so much time in that subway station.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Well you're looking the wrong way. Yeah, you're facing out
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: watching the rats fund in the little track area. That's
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: what I like, standing and watch those rats are in around. Well,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: that was that was the big money area era area.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: You know, you had the you had the Dutch there,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: and um, you know, the beaver and the Bible it
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: just kind of are really critically important to the settlement
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: of America, particularly the beaver in that area. And so yeah,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: what was the air like, what were the years when
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: the long hunters like Boone were most active in their hunting. Yeah,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: it's really short. You really could kind of sandwich it
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: in between between the like the very end of the
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Prince and Indian War seventeen sixty two, seventeen sixty three,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: right in there to about the very beginning the first
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: s of the American Revolution. If you're gonna put that
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: in movie terms, think like from the last the Mohicans
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: to the Patriot Like right in there you have the
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: long hunter period and the real heyday really is quite brief,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: and it's fairly well defined from about seventeen sixty nine
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: about seventeen seventy two seventy three. So I mean it's
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: a tiny span. Now you always had market hunters four years. Yeah, well,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: I mean that you know, when you start drawing delinea
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: delineations like that, you're gonna get people that know it's
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: not right. You always had market hunters and market hunting.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: I mean that that goes back a long way. But
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: as far as like the classic period of seventeen sixty
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: eight sixty nine, that's when you had the big furb
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: gads coming in that that weren't boom wasn't necessarily part
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: of that boon hunted far more solitary, which is brother's
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: brother in law, you know, Kith and ken. I kind
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: of thank a few neighbors for camp tenders. But you
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: had guys like James Knox coming up from the New
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: River Valley of uh, Virginia and not comes in with
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: twenty two twenty three men and uh you know they
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: engaged in deer shooting, like twenty three guys going hunt
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: white tails. Yeah, and they're each bringing in and these
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: are pack horsemen. These aren't guys coming in a little backpacks.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: They're not out there just trekking around. They're coming in, uh,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: bringing in each two to three two to three uh
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: pack horses, each with all their traps and so forth.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: And these are hand forged double long spring traps. And
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: that's the difference to in the the Indian method. The
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Indians are hunting the fur bearers, you know, they're gigging them,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: they're shooting them. Well, uh, whites were trapping them. And
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: this is when you really have the development of like
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: the long spring traff the double long spring traf um.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: But their hand Fortunately before you have you know, like
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Oneida and Victory of those kind of folks. So they
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: were equally trappers as much as they were hunters. They
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: could be you know, I think Boone and people tend
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: to overlook this. I think Boone was addicted to beaver trapping,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: and I throughout his live almost at the very end,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: he would still go out there and trap beaver. Yeah,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: trap beaver and otter in wintertime and you know, beaver. Again,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: it was the fashion that drove it, and particularly in Europe,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: because the European beaver was pretty well trapped out by
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: the sixteen hundreds, and so you know, wanting to wear
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: a a beaver fur felt hat. You can even read
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: about him in Chaucer and Shakespeare, and so it was
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: really a cultural thing. So that really drove the beaver industry.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Of course, by that's if you talk about the Rocky
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: mountain travers, that's when you have the fashion switched to
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: silk and that ends that. But but that's really a
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: a thriving dynamo during Boone's period as well, the beaver
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: for felt hat and and then the deer skins, and
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: so yeah, you could be seasonal, just go for the deer.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Typically it would be about from April through about the
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: second or third frost. They wanted the deer skins. I'm
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: talking about the actual skin when the skin was thin
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: because the tanning processes of the day, Uh, you know,
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: they weren't using big chemical tanning vats. They if you've
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: got the skins um tan, and you could they had
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: three different levels of skin uh gradation. You could get
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: them grained. That meant that they were fully processed tand
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: ready to go. And that could be either if you
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: got them through the Indian trade a brain tan or
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: through the White trade typically an oak tand of some type.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: Or they were even using a salt alum or you
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: could get them half dressed. Uh. That meant that you
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: and this is what Boone and those guys are doing.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: The long hunters were half dressing the skins, meaning that
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: they would go out. You know, they shoot the deer.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: They deherent like with the courrier and eye for a
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: what do they call them drawn eye? Drawn eye? Yeah,
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: and and uh and then they whip it over a
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: steaking board until you break down the epidermal era. And
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: then you would get about fifty and you could fall
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: them up and you put them in a bear skin.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: And so they were typically wrapped in bundles of fifty
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: and like when the long hunters would go out, they
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: go out oftentimes in a team like locks I said,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: he go on guys. That's a lot of guys with horses.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: And they would have a big base camp where they
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: meet about every two weeks, and then they would establish
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: small what would refer to as out camps. We would
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: think of been a little satellite camps. Uh and even
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: boom when they first go to Kentucky the first time
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: they had a base camp, and then they would have
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: about six or eight satellite camps and you would team
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: up would be you know, Steve and you honest. They
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: go out and hopefully they don't get mad about something.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: They hunt and do their thing, and then every two
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: weeks they bring them back to the camp and they
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: would wrap them up in um year excuse me. They
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: would wrap them up in bear hides, and they would
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: put them up on scaffolds. You know, typically log scaffolds
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: about eight twelve feet off all the ground because of
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: what keeps stuff out of them. Yeah, like what bears
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: bears wolves right, and a lot of times too, they
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: would put um dried buffalo hides. They would stretch those
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: over the top, like a hairy piece of plywood or something,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: because that would be part of it. You would you know,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: tilt and kind of deflected the ray. But it would
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: also keep the buzzers out because the buzzers would land
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: in and they would claw into them as well. So yeah,
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: it was all kind of uh, I mean, it was.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: It was. It was a hazardous underfry enterprise. It was.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: It was extremely hard. It was arduous. You know, people
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: tend to look at these folks like, you know, like
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: that like the Daniel day Lewis type or something that
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: you know that these are hard working guys. It's there's
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of ways to die out there. The business
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: itself is very very hard. You can lose your profits
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: either through you know, rain, maybe a bear claws into it.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Um things are stolen, like by the Indians, and that
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: happened to Boone several times, you know, particularly like in
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: his first big long hunt to Kentucky in seventeen sixty
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: nine to seventeen seventy one, Boon's robbed two three times
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: by Indians. He goes back after be on the trail
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: literally from May of seventeen sixty nine to May of
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: seventeen seventy one, he goes back to the Yadkin Valley
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: through Rebecca and goes, well, we're broker than when I left. Yeah,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: he had two small fortunes stolen from him on that trip, right, Yeah,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: But he had seen Kentucky, and he knew the way in,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: and he had explored it more than any white man
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: in the settlements. And so that's kind of paves away,
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: you know, whether providentially or by chance or however people
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: want to interpret that for Boon, what you know, he
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: becomes the great uh Icon, the first true frontier hero.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Can you explain real quick? Just to back up a
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: little bit when you talk about that short period, that
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: short heyday of long hunters. So these are like hunters
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: that would do these months long, maybe years long trips
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: over the Appalachians. What do you say from your where
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: you're from? Do you go Apple Achians? I Appalachian? Uh?
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: That's New Orleans and New Orleans. I mean it depends
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: on where you're Probably Appellatian to fine Blue Ridge. We
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: probably over the Blue Ridge. Yes, that's moral timy, very
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: so it's a very fine. It's very short period. What
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: was it about the French and Indian War that allowed
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: it to open up? Was it we that we that
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: the American colonists had uh displaced the French out of
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: those areas, and that's what allowed the long hunters to
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: start hunting in there. Well it ended, That's what happened.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know you have the bridge, like the
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: blood bath ended. Yeah. By by seventeen sixty two, seventeen
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: sixty three, you um have the end of the French
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: and Indian War and you have relative of peace that's
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: uh established and the British established the Treaty of seventeen
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: sixty three, which ostensibly is to keep the colonists out
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: from the west. Nobody paid much attention to that, but
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: you had the Peace of Paris, uh and done in
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: London in Paris that and that ended the Seven Years War,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: and so it was wide open. So relative peace was
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: established with the with the the Indians, particularly the Algonquins
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: that inhabited the land west of the Blue Ridge. But
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: also the French agreed to not you know that that
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: their land, I mean usurped. You know, the British gained
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: a huge amount of territory. They gained Louisiana. You know,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: at least the Spanish yet and the British were possessors
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: now of the Ohio Valley. The Ohio Valley was was
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: like the big plum. You know. You had the French
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: coming in from the west, and then you had the
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: British who had established colonies along the tide water and uh,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: everybody's kind of fighting for the lakes. And so once
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: that period it's settled, and then it's open and you
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: can get in there without worrying so much about an
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: arrow in the back. Those wars, like both the revel
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: both the American Revolution and the French Indian War, we're like,
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: we're horribly bloody on the frontier. Yeah, and I mean
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: just the like the atrocities you read about that aren't
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: widely known. Oh man, it's brutally well. Just take the
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: American Revolution for example. Most people think, and you whether
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: you're listening to a television broadcast or you're reading a
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: book that go, well, you know, Corn Wallace surrender to
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: uh George Washington in October one, that's the end of
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: the American Revolution. Well, it was in the east, but
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: it certainly was not out west, you know, and by
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: out west, I mean Kentucky. Kentucky that was you know,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: the Far West, and so that war continued, the American
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: revel Ousian for another year and a half. And um,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: it's far more catches catch can You don't have manual
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: of arms training. Uh, you're training meaning you're getting behind trees.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: You're fighting Indian style. Uh, there's no rules of war,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: there's no real rules of engagement. You have Indian allies
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: that are both coming out of the Great Lakes, that
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: are being still supplied by the bridge up there in
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Detroit and so forth. And you have now a lot
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: of French partisans that are that are part of that
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: as well. And you even had some ranger units from
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: the British Butler's Rangers. I mean, these guys were tough.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: They were kind of like the British equivalent of the
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: American and earlier counterpart Rodgers Rangers. So yeah, it was bloody,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: it was brutal and um and and but it was
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: just how life was it. It's inconceivable to most of
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: us today. And that's the thing. If you read the
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: first biography of Boone um John Philson's book, Uh, Presidents
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: State of Kentucky. Um, it's got a biographical account of
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: Boone and one thing about it is how incredibly dark
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: and brooding and bloody it really was. Uh yeah, and
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: I were talking about We talked about this a couple
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: of times. The you see him when you watch the
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: old Frontiers and movies, are watching Boone stuff. You know,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: he'll take his rifle out and split a bullet on
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: a hatchet whatnot? Right like what he called he called
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: his gun tick liquor right because he could shoot a
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: tick off. I've done I've done that. You can do that.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: It's not a it's not an impossible fee and I've
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: done it. But how accurate could these guys have really been?
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Because think about all the inconsistencies. The powder is inconsistent,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: like these guys are making their own powder or buying it.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: You're not measuring grains because it's different combustibilities. Like how
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: good could they have been? There are there any real
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: like are there any real assessments of how good they
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: were with these rifles? Like how far could they shoot
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: a deer? Well, probably the most famous long shot and
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: it wasn't a deer, it was a British officer. It
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: was sure shot Timothy Murphy who shot a British officer
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: at about two d twenty five yards. Um. They were
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: just sitting out there on the horses and uh American
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: Revolution and Murphy came out there and kind of like
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: maybe lick the front site like the old Sergeant Albert
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: New York movie. I don't know, and uh put his
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: gun in a in a cock of a tree and
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: leveled down and these British was like, what's he gonna do?
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: And he killed him and then he killed the guy
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: next to him. That's around two twenty yards. UH. Typically
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: most folks aren't shooting at that kind of uh range.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: But these men really knew their guns. I mean they
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: lived with their guns. This was this is a drill bit,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: this was a hammer. This was their tool not only
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: of their occupation like in the case of Boone, but
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: it was a survival to well that you had to
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: know your gun to stay alive. And there's one account
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: of a rare war officer, Daniel Broadhead, who encounters a
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: number of Samuel Brady's men. Brady was a scalp. Little
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: is really written about him. He's, in his own way,
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: kind of an unresolved Indian hater. His family was killed
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: by Indians. He had these UH men with him like
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Lewis Wetzel, who were just really dangerous and scary. But
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: Broadhead comes across Brady's men and they challenge them to
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: a shooting match. And broadhead Men's are all using muskets,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: and Brady's men's are using long rivals and they put
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: a keg out there about seventy or eighty yards. Can
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: you tell us the difference between a long rifle and
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: sure a musket is a smooth boar there it's like
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: a shotgun like a tube, and a rifle has rifling
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: in the barrel like they're you know, they're grooves and lands.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: And that was actually done uh by the Germans and
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: around fifteen fifteen sixty, and it was really incidental that
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: had nothing to do with accuracy in the very beginning
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: that that had. It was it was kind of a
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: a fix on how do we fire these guns and
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: keep the black powder from smudging the barrel afterwards? Because
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: black powder, once you fire it, it's high grovescopic that
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: absorbs moisture, and so if you shoot it a few times,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: particularly with the smooth board, you know, it can really
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: clunk up a barrel because you know, there's no place
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: for the fouling to go the soot, and so that
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: the Germans just cut grooves in the barrel, straight grooves
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: and to keep them so the fouling could go into
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: the grooves. And so that they did that and they
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: were like, wow, these sure shoot a lot better. And
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: then they spiraled a few of them, and they're like, wow,
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: they really shoot better. And so accidentally they figured out
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: from rife that's where rifling came from. So I rifling.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: That's one of the things I heard ill of it's
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: true or not, is that the spiraling came from just
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: wanting to increase the how much groove you could have,
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: that you could have more surface area of groove by
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: cutting spirals, and and there therefore house more burnt powder.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: And then they hit on that idea that the bullet
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: was spinning nights and shooting acker. I don't even know
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: where the hell I read that. Yeah, that that maybe
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: it will be. I mean, I know, guys even now
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: that that really like straight rifled guns, you know, straight
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: they're called straight rifles. That they'll have their barrels uh rifled,
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: but instead of grooving them, they'll have them cut straight.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't throw a spin on it. Well, but
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: you have kind of maybe you could eed to say
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: the best of both worlds or maybe the worst of
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: both worlds. I mean, it's still functions very much like
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: a rifle. If you want to use it for turkey
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: hunting or something as a smooth board, you can do that,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: uh smooth for me. Straight rifles, straight rifling typically doesn't
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: get shot out as readily as a a spiral group rifle.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: If you're shooting it. You can't take a spiral group
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: rifle and you shot in it, you know, you're not
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: gonna put buckshot in it or they had swan shot
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: they called it, or you know, number six or something.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: But a a straight rifle you can shoot shot. You
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: can any any starry shot, number eight, buckshot double all
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: the way up to you know. So, yeah, that's so
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: maybe the smooth bar was a little bit more versatile
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: at that time. Yeah, that's a real estute comment, because yeah,
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: they were. They were much more for a survival weapon.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: That's what you wanted, you know, because you can shoot
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: shot round ball up to that very side the caliber.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: And by the way, um, a lot of these frontiersmen,
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: they were riflemen. But when it came time for you
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: know we're talking. You're talking about how bloody the Red
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: War was in the West, and how bloody the the
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: F and I War was. Frinch An Indian War was
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of times when you got into woodland fighting,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: lie that they left their wifles back home. They got
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: the smooth boars. At the Battle of Blue licks Um
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: August seventeen, Boone's son was killed at his second one
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: of the second sons, Yeah, the second Yeah, the firstborn son, James,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: was killed when he was sixteen by Indians in the
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: the Powell's Valley area seventeen seventy three. That's that's man.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: We should get to that story later on. It's a
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: heartbreaking story. Man tortured to death, fingernails all pulled out,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: killed and then when Boone went back to find his body,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: he goes back. Yeah, well it sure, he goes back
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: to what happened. He goes back and they found the body.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: You know, initially they did find the body that there
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: was they knew where it was. There was four or
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: five others killed and they buried him. But Boone did
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: go back later to rebury him and trying to identify
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: his boy and the wolves that Dug had dug the
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: bodies up right, and he recognized some wisps of hair
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: right that were his son, his hair right, and he
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: had brought a blanket cradled the body for a while,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: and then he heard some people, He heard Indians, some
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: Indians coming, and slipped off into the night. And he
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: said it was the darkest day of his life, the
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: most melancholy day. Yeah, and I'm get getting chill. Buff's
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: talking about that, right, And again, that kind of thing
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: just seems unfathomable to us. I mean, I might add,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: not only are you dealing with the native intrusion, but
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: you know, he's right in the middle of a number
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: of imperial wars and they're being uh uh, they're allied
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: with these imperial powers and they're being armed, and so yeah,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: it was just a tough time. Boon goes back and
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: he buries his son, and comes a thunderstorm and he's
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: out there and he hears a wolf's howling. It's the thunderstorm,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: and he just cradled his son's corpse, and uh, the
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Indians are creeping up on him. And he gets in
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: a canoe and kind of paddles with his hands and
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: kind of quietly gets on down the creek and and um, man,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: it's just to escape another another close call. I don't
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: know any one hunter, any one front Tirasman in the
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: history of the American Frontier that was captured more times
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: by Daniel Boone, by captured by Indians, and more times
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: than Daniel Boone. Yeah, I mean he was. He was
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: getting routinely captured, and I think it yeah, you know, yeah,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: he was Boon was. He had a really interesting um
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: attitude among Native people. And it goes back absolutely to
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: his upbringing and uh and his relationship with his mother
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: and his relationship with his grandfather. But can you go
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: back to that shootout first, the guys that are gonna
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: have the shooting tournament, tells his name? Sure, sure shot? No,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: he was, Yeah, that's search shot. Timothy Murphy was the
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: guy that shot the the British officer, and you know,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: maybe it was just his time to go. I don't
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: know how you look at that, but but yeah, the
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: two the two groups that ran into each other. Yeah,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: that's exactly it was. It was it was Daniel Broadhead.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: I believe he was an American Red War officer. I know,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get all kind of people correcting me
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: later on some of this stuff. But but he sees, uh,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: Samuel Brady's contingent of spies, they call him they were Scalts,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: but we call him scal They were spies, spies for
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: the British. No, no, no, no, these are American guys.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I mean these guys are dangerous. I mean,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: you know you've heard of Rogers Rangers. Yeah, these guys
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: were like Rogers Rangers, but much more free wheeling. And
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: they had a number of people that really had been
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: dead as against Indians, and so yeah, they put small
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: rum kegs out there. You know, it's about, you know,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: about the size of the conference wise with maybe a
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: softball sixty or seventy yards, and they're and they're hidding
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: at uh in some cases a hundred times out of
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: a hundred and and Broadhead had his musketeers. They had
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: a few riflemen come out there and throw down on it.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: Not on one of them hit it. Yeah, so I
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: mean that, you know, that's not perfect, but I mean
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: that does give you an idea. They took a a
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: piece of paper, kind of a precious commodity, and that
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: they and put that out at about forty or fifty
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: yards and the same kind of thing. Everyone of Brady's
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: men either hit it square. I think they all hit
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: a square. I think one guy Nick did it. I
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: think they were thirteen of them. They all hit a square.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: One guy Nick did a piece of paper about the
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: size of we might say a silver dollar out there
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: about five or sixty yards. And again they brought ever
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: broadheads man and not note them hit it. So which
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: was the crew of guys that were the spies that
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: were out just like roaming around exact and revenge. Ah,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: that's uh, Samuel Brady's men they called Brady's Rangers. I
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: mean they were they were rough characters. Matt my goodness, yeah,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: and uh like like Louis what's all? I mean, what's
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: all one of these kind of guy is that In
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: some ways it's um like the Greek sort of raised
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: to the pantheon of heroes. In some ways maybe not.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe he's like the anti hero. His family was killed
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: by Indians, he was captured himself as boyd and wounded,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: and I had part of his breastbone shut off. He's
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: about twelve or thirteen years old, and whatsel grew his
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: hair along it came down about to his calves. Really yeah,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: and uh he would tie it up in long braids,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: long queues, and he would shake him at the Indians. Leah, Yeah,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: they had that music then. And um and unlike Princess Leiah,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: he did have his ears pierce. Maybe she did too,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: but he had silk red tassels in his ears. And
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: but he would talk. He would just tell him, he's like,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: come come collect these and and there would be four
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: or five Indians and and Westll would take him on,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: just him. He would just charge right into him, four
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: or five and he'd shoot and take out one. I
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: know this is insensitive to a lot of people. I'm
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: not condoning any of this time. You know, it's a
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: different time for a different era. I don't know, you know,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: mentality wise, judgment wise, we can't relate to what these
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: people thought, how they dealt with these issues two years ago.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, whether it's imperial forces in your world, native
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: allied forces, whatever. And so he would take out one, well,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: of course they they run after him, right, and uh,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: he would spit a ball down the barrel. He really
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: had mastered the art of reloading on the run. And
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: uh probably had an enlarge touch hole he would pour.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: The touch hole is the part of the gun in
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: the breach where the you know, when you have a
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: flint lock and the lock clashes and it hits the frison,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: the flint hits the prison and the flame jets through
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: the touch hole. So he probably had an a large
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: touch hole. So you would lose the pan up until
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: you you butt the gun on the ground. The butt
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: well that once you've got it loaded, you just butt
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: the ground. It's to self primes. You spit the ball
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: down without all the powder that he poured in there
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: would pour out and get into the and get into
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: the pan. Yeah, and see he's loading straight from the horn,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: like from the John like in the John Wayne movies.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, nobody loaded straight from the horn unless you
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: just had to. But poor bartender, Oh, that's an important
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: I think to because everybody thinks that that you just
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: free poured from the horn. So how did they measure it? Yeah? Okay,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: typically with the care intending of an American long rifle.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: Uh later becomes noticed that American long the care care intending. Okay, yeah, yeah,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: it's just basically how to deal with a long rival.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: And I would encourage listeners to go out and buy
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: a flintlock. I got one. I get I tried to
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: shoot some deer with it, but some would always go
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: wrong every time I shot at I don't know anything
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: about your flintlock. I didn't say that tryday but neither.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: But uh, anybody that's ever shot one can say the
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: same thing. But yeah, get a good one. But yeah,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: I learned how to to operate that gun, you know,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: because the first thing you do, you just go buy
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: a good flintlock, and then you'll go like, I gotta
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: shoot it. And then you go like, well, how am
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: I going to carry my powder? Well? How do you
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: carry your powder? Listen? Man, we were idiots. We went
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: to go to the Pennsylvania's flintlocks. He's now, my buddies
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: do it a lot. I didn't, So like, I get one.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: How do you carry the powder carrying the powder horn? Okay?
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: So you do? You did? Okay? Okay? That yeah, I
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: mean days people should people should do that. That will
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: put them in touch with their forebears. They'll put them
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: in touch with our subjects. But no, no, that's not
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: I'm lying to you. I poured it into h I
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: had a powder horn, But I wanted to pouring it
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: into those little like looks like a little old style
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: film canister. Poured it pre measured. Yeah, some people used
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: to keep seeds in those do A lot of deer
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: had close calls on that trip. Man, they don't even realize. Well, anyway,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: back to the care and tending of an American calls
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: Part two, the American long rifle or hair in tending. Yeah,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: I mean you you have a powder horn suspended on
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: whatever side is most comfortably if your left hand or
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: right handed. I have it on the right, you know,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: in the curl of the horn and all that. And yeah,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: you have a on you're shooting pouch scrap. You'll have
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: a little piece of an antler, you know it's a
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: holid out deer time that will be of a certain
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: number of grains of powder. That's how they measured it. Yeah,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: and so you yeah, oh yeah, you you measured the powder.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: You you measured the powder. You pour that down the
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: moment that you know how they would plug the horn
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: with a piece of deer antler or like a wooden plug.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: Would that be the measure or the measure hangs No, no, no, no,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: you typically yeah, they did they use something they'd hand
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: carved something. A fiddle peg was roll real popular fiddle
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: peg is kind of like ready to go, just kind
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: of whittle it down. But yeah, you you take the
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: horn and you pour into a measure and you already
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: know because these guys live by their guns. Okay. And
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: if any any of your listeners can do the same thing,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: because they'll figure this out too. You know, you have
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: say like a like I've got my rifle is sixty calibers.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: I shoot about sixty seventy grains of powder. Okay, So
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: I have a little deer antler this holid out there,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: and I pour to the top and I'll dump that
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: down the barrel. Then you take a whatever sides ball
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: you're using. You know, typically you're going to be undersized
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: by ten thousands, twelve thousands, fifteen thousands to me people
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: that have shot these guns. You've got that all figured out.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: And you have a patch of linen usually and you
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: have it um oil with bear fat bear bears like
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: makes about the best loop or or whale. It's hard
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: to get whale these days. Yeah, you just can't run
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: down like you know, bass pro shop, I needs burn
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: whale oil like work, I get that and so and
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: then yeah, then you have it all, Dad, You got
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: a private You still now use bear grease as a lubricant. Yeah,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: always where do you do? You get that at Sportsman's
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: or from black bears? Get that from the elusive? Yeah,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: I have friends that hunt black bears and you asked
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: them to if you know any really like any hardcore
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: North Carolinias that live, like in the area that we're
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: talking about, they do about four or five things really well.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: They hunt bears, They make moonshine, They produce a little
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: North Carolinians and they play music and they make moonshine.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: Already I already said that that sounds likely to do it.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah you should, Yeah, you should go down there. Yeah,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: and they always have that kind of stuff and uh
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: so yeah, it's just the best lubricant. So you have
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: a grease patuln in your ball. Yeah, we'll be careful
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: with that one. And uh yeah, yeah, it takes leads
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: a shoot of flintlock. I got it, I got it.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, boom okay, and uh yeah, so yeah,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: but but you don't pour from the horn, and you know,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: if it was a clutch situation, yeah, but I mean
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: you might have a spark down there in the breach,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: and if you're pouring from the directly from the horn,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: then you might have a two pound grenade right bite
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: your head. Yeah, like you know, like John Wayne Ali
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: Moan movies, that looks you know that you did it. Now,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: So you're saying like, if there's something smoldering in there, yeah,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: and you like that, and that powder falls down and
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: ignites up the barrel and then ignites that handful of
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: that Yeah, and I think that's maybe whatever happened like
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: the guy that invented black powder, because we don't know
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: who he was, but I I was wondered, how do
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: you invent this? You know, the same dynasty of China.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: You know, you have some guy and he goes like, okay,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna take uh seventy five parts of potassium no
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: I trade, which they got that under outhouses and they
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: went into the soil and then then uh cent of
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: willow ash and then tent percent of sulfur and then
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: you you know, you start you get a mortar and
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: pestle goal, Let's see what this does. Man. You know,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: like he's spread over seventeen provinces or something. And I
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: know when Boone was when Boone would make his own powder,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: they would, uh, there was some part of it, like
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: they like to take the willow ash and they wetted
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: it with their own piss. Do you ever read that
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: all the qualities of your own yurine were good? The
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: way Boone did it and a lot of folks did it.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we call the substance saltpeter for
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: reasons we won't maybe get into that. But they dug
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: the spoil up under what we would refer to today
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: as an outhouse in bat caves. Yeah, that's right. What's
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: that called guano? And but they yeah, and then you
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: would get the dirt, soil, whatever, and you would like take, um,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: take like a saw horse and inverted at the same
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: basic idea, just full it with hey, Philip Hay and
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: it's just pour the mixture of the earth, guando, you
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: know whatever. They know. Typically you're digging under the old
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: house back in Kentucky, and um, you mix it with water,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: you pour it through there, and then you take the
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: liqueur that is distilled from that and you boil that
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: a little bit an hour or so, and then let
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: us sit and the as evaporage. You'll have these crystals
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: that's potassium nitrate, saltpeter, and so you would take that
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: and then he would take typically willow ash to use
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: other kinds of ash and um and then sulfur would
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: sometimes kind of get hard to get, but yeah, you
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: would mix that together. Um, you grind the ingredients separately,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: but then you would mix it together. And then typically
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: they would use a human urine because it had a
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: higher oxygen content. It would flash quicker. They determined that.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know how they determine that, and so yeah,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: that was but it was arduous, it was complicated, and
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: very few people knew how to do it. And if
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: you how to do it on the frontier, then you
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: were quite a commodity. It's like blacksmithing. Again, that goes
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: over our head. Most of us aren't blacksmiths. But Boone
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: was also a very good blacksmith, so was his brother Squire,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: and Squire was also a great silver smith and um,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: so yeah Boone but just a hunter and a trapper
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: and had those talents. He had other talents as well,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: like just geared towards frontier living, not the least of
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: which we were kind of getting into earlier his dealing
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: with the American Indians. You know, how he how he
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: managed to get out of some of these scrapes. How
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: he learned his protocol diplomacy dealing with these folks. How
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: did he learn that? Several ways? Uh, it goes back
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: to his childhood. Um. First of all, Boone was a Quaker,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: as his family were. They his grandfather, George, came to
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: America from England, made that transatlantic journey like a lot
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: of folks did. And uh, he was a Quaker you
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: know end as they called him, Society of Friends and
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: lived in around present day Birdsboro, Pennsylvania. Donated a couple
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: of acres to the Quakers there and both the little
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: church building. I've been in that same church building a
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: couple of times. The original pews, they are all still
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: there that the Boone family sat, No, no I sat on. Everyone.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: Just catch that vibe if I could. And uh. And
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: so Boone and his family were Quakers. Of course they
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: are Pacifists, that the whole different kind of matter. But
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: they had a number of Delaware converts, so you know,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: Indians were nothing unusually Boon. He worshiped with him in church.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: His grandfather also had a trading post, George Boone, and
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: he was the Delaware hunters would come in and of course,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: you know they're bringing in lush, be repelleds otter pels,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: perfectly processed deer hyde, beautifully tanned, you know, brained hand.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: And Boone intuitively is picking up on this and he's
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: there's the Delaware closely related culturally and linguistic lee as
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: Algonquin speakers to the Shawnee. So the Shawnee would be
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: coming in there, and you know he's learning bits and
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: pieces of the language, you know, the Patois, but he's
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: also learning, maybe more importantly, how do you deal with
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: these people? And uh? And he would carry this information
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: throughout his life. He would he would tell his sons,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: you know, when you greet an Indian, be friendly, be frank,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: and give them gifts, even if I mean literally, if
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: you even if you can't afford it, you give them
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: if it has to be the shirt off your back,
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: you know, if you have some boheit. You know, t
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: was a big deal part of the China trade, coming
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: out of other parts as well, like India, Pakistan. So forth,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: give them some tea, uh, give them some beads, share
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: something with them, compliment them, never lived, don't ever beat
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: him in a shooting contest, you know, give them some sugar.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: And this kind of diplomacy always served him well and
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: and it serves his son's well. And and Boond understood
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: when he was in Kentucky that first hunt, that first
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: long hunt, and you know, he's out there literally from
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: about May to the December, and they lay in hundreds
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: of deer skins and quite a few fur bearers, primarily beever,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: the Shawnee swooped down on him, Captain will Emery, who
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: would later capture Boone five years later, the loyal Blue Licks,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: the Salt Boilers, and they take everything. And Boone understood,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: you know, we would look upon it as theft from
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: the India perspective. They're taking what's rightfully. There's you know,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: Boon was there breaking all manner of law, you know.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: And Uh, but this kind of diplomacy would serve him well,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: it would serve his son's well, even his grandson, Alfred
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: Gallatin Boone, Uh was a mountain man, full fledged. And
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: he's out there in the famous Rendezvous of eighteen thirty two.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: He's out there with Bridger and all these guys, but
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: they were just Indian treaties that some people just couldn't clinch.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: And so they would bring an Alpert Gallatin Boone and
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: and just the name Boone to the Indians out west
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: like where we are, would resonate with them because they
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: understood that that that meant, you know, fair dealings, that
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: uh he would be treated properly. And um, you know
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: when we were talking earlier about Samuel Brady and those guys,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: and these are men of blood. You know Ken he's
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: a scalp taker at scalf hunter and Simon Kent, Simon Ken, Yeah, Boone,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: that was never Boom. You know, Boone did not rebel
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: in war, He didn't glory in war. He was certainly
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: a warrior when he needed to be. But he understood
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: not only maybe basic Indian language. I think actually he
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: spoke Gonkland, Delaware, Shawnee probably pretty well. And he understood
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: pipe ceremonies and so forth, but he understood just the
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: basic diplomacy gift giving. You know, you give somebody a gift,
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: we think, okay, anniversary, whatever, give a gift, um for
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: the for for Native people, giving a gift, uh met
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: burnishing that friendship It's like a chain and if you
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: let the chain get rusty, that's not good. But you
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: give a gift that kind of brings back to the glow,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: solidifies the relationship. Can you tell the story real quick
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: of when when Boone went on his first long hunt
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: to Kentucky He went with a couple of guys but
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: wound up being alone for a year or close to it.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: And one of those guys, they never knew what happened
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: to him, and you wound up they found a skeleton
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: like years later inside a hollow tree, Like, what the hell?
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: How did that work out? Well, it didn't work out
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: for him too well, But you know what happened was
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: Boone begins his first actual Kentucky long hunt and May
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: of seventeen sixty nine, he's led to Kentucky by John Finley,
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: who he had met in seventeen fifty five during General
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: Edward Braddock's ill fated death March. Boone met Braddock. Boon
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: was twenty one years old, Finley was about twelve thirteen
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: years older. Boone witnessed that whole slaughter from from afar
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: right at Braddock. Oh yeah, I mean that's yeah, I mean,
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: that's that's a whole different kind of episode. I don't
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: know if you want to segue into that much, but yeah,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: I mean that's Braddock. That was at the height of
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: the French and that was before that was that's the
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: first salvo of the French Indian War. Is Braddocks trying
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: to build a road, and in some ways it's a
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: miraculous near miraculous engineering feet. He builds a road from
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: uh Maryland getting close to President Day Pittsburgh, you know,
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: a hundred and ten miles. He's blasting routs. I mean,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: but yeah, they're they're trying to build a road to
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: Port Decayne at the headwaters of the Ohio. You know,
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: you have the Allegheny to the north, the Monongahela to
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: the south, you have the Ohio River. There's the French
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: for right there. And so yeah, Raddox men marching and
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: Boon's part of that expedition. He's a wagon are He's
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: part of the North Carolina militia and uh he sees
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: the blood bath that ensues and Buon escapes. He cuts
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: the traces on his horse and takes off, and he
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: learned several things. One you know, you man deal of
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: oars training, does not work in woodland situation too. He
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: learns the arrogance of not using native scouts, don't you know,
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: the arrogance of not reliant upon native intelligence like for
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: recon and and military ops. Yeah, so that's where Boone
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: meets Finley. Yeah, and he decided to go on a
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: big old hunt trip. Yeah. So Fainly Fainly comes back,
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: you know, years later, So let's let's do this and Boon.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: By this time, he's got several eight kids. Uh, he's
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: already four or thirty five years old. They've adopted another
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: four from his uh, one of his brothers who dies,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: and um, he needs a hunt Boon at a thirty four,
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: he's already been professionally hunting since he's sixteen, and so
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: he goes into You can have a question about that
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: because you're talking about it's such a hard life. It's
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: such a hard way to actually even make any money.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: There were there no other options, Like what had he
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: not gone long hunting, he could have stayed back and
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: just continue to be a blacksmith and farm and made
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: a living in a farmer. Yeah, he was a very
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: poor farmer. He didn't he didn't do well at it.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: And as far as making living on Blacksmith and yeah,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: maybe he could have done that, but why do you
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: do what you do? It was a reason because there
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: was a reason, just because like this is all that
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: I have. It's not because i'm really uh, my personality
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: dictates that I go on these adventures. I think if
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: you look at his history here or that's a great question,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: if you look at his earliest history, we just he
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: was drawn to the hunt. It's a different topic from
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: when we're trying to talk about the first long Hunt.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: But if you look at at his life, even when
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: he goes to Missouri, you know, in Sev's sixty five
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: years old at a time when most people say, well,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: I'm going to kick back and boon fellas a toolip
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: poplar about sixty ft long, they hollow it out into
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: a giant dug out. He puts his wife and some
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: of the children on that grandkids and send done down
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: the Ohio. Imagine doing that nowadays. And then he and
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: his uh it's one of his sons, Nathan and some
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: others uh, they walked to Missouri and he begins, he
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: starts life all over and he basically is why you
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: know Missouri uh is Kentucky of old. You know, it's
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: got lots of game, lots of land. The Indians are
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: still wild and Boone's gets he gets captured now by
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: os Age and other groups. But in the in the
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: first long hunt into Kentucky. Yeah, the A Boon is
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: there with his brother in law, John Stewart, that's who
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: you're talking about, the guy in the log, and uh,
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: Boone's brother squire. We'll join him in about five or
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: six months. He comes from North Carolina. He's got to
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: get the corn hung and you've got to get the
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: hog slaughtered and so forth. But then he joined him
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: and they have three neighbors that are helping them. But yeah,
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: the the Indians swooped down and Calp's Shoulder captured these
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: men and confiscate everything. Um. And then later Buddha's honey
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: with Stewart, and Stewart doesn't come back, you know, doesn't
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: come back to camp at No, he just doesn't come
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: back to camp. And uh and so Boon there had
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: been some flooding, lots lots of water and said, well,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: you know it's high water, you can't get back to camp,
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: and so um several days elapse, Boon goes out looks
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: for him. He finds a tree that carved with Stewart's
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: name and initials, and he says, well, okay, he's been here,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: but it's kind of cryptic. He can't really figure out
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: what's happened, and he never what happened. And so when
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: this happens, the camp tenders they said, I've had enough
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: and they go and uh Fiddley leaves. They go like
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: between getting captured by by Indians and losing everything, and
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: then Stewart disappeared. Um, and so it is five years later,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: like you say, when they're blazing the trail to the
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: Wilderness Road, that someone one of the axe men hack
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: into a large hall of sycamore and they find a skeleton.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: What are the odds man? Yeah, well again it's it's
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: it's a yeah, it's an interesting time. It's a dark,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: it's incredibly violent. It's incredibly beautiful in its own way.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the game is like the Serengetti.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: It's just it's got that romantic side to it, but
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: it's just incredibly violent. And you hack into a tree
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: and you find a skeleton. They called Boon because he
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: was the leader of the Axe team. Without that hole.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: It was just made by this axe. Where was the
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: next closest hole in this tree for the body to
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: get there? They feel that he crawled in there wounded yea,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: because he had broken bones. Yeah, so there was like
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: a hole at the base of the tree. These are
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: immense trees. You can read about the trees in that day. Uh.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: And this is what was so appealing about Kentucky. Kentucky
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: was like this big park land. I mean, don't forget
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: the geographic zone of Kentucky today that was in Kentucky.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: Kentucky then would be like just draw a triangle like
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: Kentucky Louisville eastward over to like Lexington, Frankfort, that area,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: and then down to about present day Barria. That's like
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: the blue grass that was Kentucky. And he had giant
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: deciduous trees, tulip poppers. I mean, you would have five
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: or six men that would camp in a tree over
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: a season. They would camp in the tree some in
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: some cases they can I mean in the hollow tree.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: In some cases you could even get the horse and there. Yeah,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: there's a huge and and because of the native practices
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: of you know, now we're learning how valid this is.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: But they have practices that they had gone on for
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: hundreds of years of burning u the grasses, you know,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: seasonally torturing them to get rid of what we would
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: say a secondary growth and get rid of pest. And
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: you can see for a long ways and like alpor enemies,
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of reasons why they would
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: torch um the prairie of the savannah periodically. What it
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: did is it is it cleared out the secondary growth
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: and then you had these large deciduous trees that would
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: grow and grow and grow. And so when they would
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: describe Kentucky, you can read John Pilson's book on Kentucky
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: that came out in seventeen for the Discovery Settlement in
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: president State of Kentucky by John Filson, and he described
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: Kentucky like a vast meadow land. And the word Kentucky. Uh.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: They think there's different interpretations. You know, you have people
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: that think that your aquoi and it means dark and
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: bloody ground. But the Algonquin translation is um the great
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: meadow land. And so you had these immense hollow trees,
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: the soil was loose. Again, it means nothing for us
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: to say you could get there on the first day
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: and plow. You know, we don't think like that. I think,
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: do I have my cell phone charged up? But yeah,
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: you could get there the first day and you could
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: actually plow because of the the openness of the land,
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: the soil fertility, the loosest of the soil. So they
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: find his body in one of these immense trees. But yeah,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: used like that. The chances of that, Oh, if I
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: could have that body in it, I'd put that right
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: in my living room. Man, the trigger of the body
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: that they want to solve. I want to slve that
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: chunk and have it sitting in my living room, right
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: in the center of the living room. There was John
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: Stewart and and and Boone was very close to broken
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: up bones right, it was one. It was the the
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: upper left arm. It was like between so like the
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: shoulder of the Delatoy to about the elbow there was
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: a broken bone and it was just alert and from
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: lead and so as obviously it was a broken Uh.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: He got shot. He got shot and Boone their rise.
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: It was probably getting cold or he was being chased
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: or something, and he crawled inside the tree and uh
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: and died there, very sad, lonesome forsaken death. Oh it's
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: haunting man. And the fact they found it, well, and
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: you can give him the fact that Boone was there
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: when they found it. Yeah, and how did he identify him?
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: How would he how would he know this is Jon
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: Stewart right, I don't know. Yeah, he had his powder
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: horn and had his name carved in it. Yeah, and
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: Boone said, you know there he thought that he could
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: kind of look see some look on the skull and
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: maybe resemblances. I don't know how valid that is, but
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: that that that is one account. But you know the
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: powder horn had his name on it, and it was
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: just you said earlier that he had carved um the
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: guy that was dead, that he had carved his name
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: in a in a tree. Was that a common practice? Yeah?
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: These guys are just kind of like I was here,
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: kind of marking. Yeah. I mean I think even now,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: you know, if people want to leave there there, they're
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: John Doe. And it was common with with the American
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: Indians as well. Uh, trees that were along well established
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: buffalo paths. The Buffalo paths were like the great interstate system.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: You know, we had this idea that they just walked
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: out into the wildernessn't like North and they think somehow
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: knew that. Well, now they didn't know that. I mean,
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: they could, you know, infer it figure things out. They
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: were very good at what they did. But the Buffalo trails,
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: you know, the Buffalo east of the Mississippi had been
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: there for several hundred years, and so they had their
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: vast avenues. Some were lead traces, lead met they went someplace.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: Some just kind of petered out, like you know, you
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: get the wizard that you walk down a path, sometimes
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: it goes somewhere a lot of times it doesn't. But
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: along those trails there would be trees, and they would
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: oftentimes bark who was there. Indians oftentime would leave cryptic
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: uh and animalistic markings of their own devising. Uh. When
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: Boon made camps in Kentucky his first hunt, Boon would
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: made decoy camps because he knew how the Indians made
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: their camps, and so he would make a camp that
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: looks like an Indian camp, like a shawn E camp.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: But he would camp and cane brakes, and they would
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: come by and lee marks like come visit us, man,
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: how's it going, you know? And uh, yeah, uh you really?
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: You kind of mentioned this that you get this idea
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: of some guy going through the woods a little backpack.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: But these guys when they struck out, yeah, that had
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: a big footprint. Yeah, pack horsemen. The dogs. Can you
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: talking about the dogs a little bit? Yeah? I mean
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: they had real distinctive dogre, some of which are we
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: kind of had their descendants today, like like what we
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: would call it a plothound, and the good cat dogs,
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: you know count I mean panther you know, and uh
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: like black and tans. Probably the most common LEAs seen
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: dog would have been the mountain curve, like a yellow
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: mountain curve or brindle mountain curve. You know, good catchdogs,
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: good hold dogs. And a lot of people had bulldogs
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: like the American bulldogs. Uh. Dr Thomas Walker who came
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: to Kentucky. You know, Boom was not there's a lot
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: of mythology about him. He wasn't the first guy into Kentucky.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: You know, long hunters in command of bring civilization. That's
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: the last thing they wanted, you know, they weren't trying
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: to make the land free for God and country, hearth
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: and home again, that's be like the last thing they
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: want there. They didn't identify as Americans that none of
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: that was you know they were these are just guys
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: that are that are making a living. But you know
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: that the first guy that really comes in and leaves
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: a wonderful journal as Dr Thomas Walker in seventeen fifty
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: and Walker had developed his own kind of a foxhound
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: beagle looking how and we call them that a Walker hounds.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure you've heard of those, and that's yeah,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: that's another type that they had. And the spaniels. Spaniels
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: were popular. I thought a Bond had a spaniel. He
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: wasn't a long hunter, but that time period close and
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: how and how did they use them? Like they had
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: them around obviously, but like in the notes it says
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: it wasn't just for hunting. Yeah, well, I mean think
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: of yourself and kind of an aboriginal fashion. You know
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: they're gonna keep you warm. Yeah, get him in there,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: like if you're in that hollalog, that hollow tree, you
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: know they're gonna keep you warm. You know, the term
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: three Dog night, not the band, but you know that's
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: the whole idea was. Yeah, that's how cold it was.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: And um, you know definitely that they can kind of
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: be a liability. They bark, you know, and you know
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: they give your give you away. But they're they far
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: more than um pay for themselves advantage wise, because they
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: can warn you, you know. You know, whenever they worked
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: both ways. Whenever the Indians were sneaking up on the
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: white camps, they had to be aware of the white
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: hunter dog. Whenever the white hunters were steaking up on
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: the Indian camps, they had to be aware of the
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: Indian dogs. So yeah, I mean, they can they keep
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: your company. You know, Boot loved his dogs. Just coupal
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: accounts of Boon singing to his dogs. Yeah, in one
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: like overheard by somebody. Yeah, that's a great that's a
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: great story. Can I tell that one? Yeah? Sure. We
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: were talking about these long Hunter guys that came out,
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: you know, and the most famous brigades were led by
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: James Knox, who did real well the Docks later and
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: also well Long Hunty. He did well enough Long Honey,
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: but he became a military figure, and um, you know,
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: Boom was still out there scraping by. Uh sometimes Boon
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: did far better surveying, but that had a kind of
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: a shelf life too. Knox Docks did well, and he
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: would bring in his brigades. And one of the guys
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: that came in with an Ox is this Germantic guy,
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: Casper Mansker. How's that grab you? Casper Mansker, Casper Mansker,
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: and they would come in. Sometimes they go through the
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: Cumberland Gap oot is what it was called. It was
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: later you know Thomas Walker. We mentioned him a Walker
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: name at the Cumberland Gap for the Duke of Cumberland,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: you know, the slaughterer of the of the Highlanders at
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: the Battle of Colodin. But um, sometimes they would go
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: in through Cumberland Gap. But sometimes they would come you know,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: from eastern Tennessee, western North Carolina just cut straight to
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: French liqu French Lick today is known as what no
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: no Idea Music City USA, Nashville, n Yeah, I mean
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: that was the band that you talked about a teeming
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: area for you know, that was like an area massive
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: licks off the Cumberland River, lots of buffalo, lots of
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: all of that, and you know, like right there where
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: the football you know, where the stadium is for the
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: Titans and everything. I mean that was like major hunting area.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Mansker was with the Knox and they hunt
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: French lick Uh and they go straight up to kentuck Uh,
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: up towards the Green River and they're in there and
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: they they hear the sound. It's kind of like part singing,
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: part whistling and laughter. And they're going, what is that?
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: That's not like any species were familiar with. I'm sure
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: they said that two species is a big word in
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: the long hunter vocabulary. And uh until they put the
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: guns on full cock and they're sneaking through the cane
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: brake and the sumac and they're like, and they're hearing
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: the sound is getting louder and louder. And they peeked
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: through the sumac and it's Colonel Daniel Boone. He's laying
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: on a deer skin right in the middle of in
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: Indian country, just singing too high Heaven. He's just happy
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: to be there. Man, don't you love it? That's a
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: great story. And then there are accounts of him singing
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: to his dogs, you know, and speaking of Mask or
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: those guys by the way with um Knox. You know
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: they kill so many bear again we yeah, well, I
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: mean they yeah, they'd hunt them down, but but you know,
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: whether they use dogs or yeah, but they had dogs
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: in those parties. But they killed a lot of bear.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: You know, you you could process the meat, but mainly
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: they wanted the bear for what they could render them into.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: Boon gotten that business selling barrels of bear fat. Yeah,
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: you can get about forty pounds per bear. And they
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: got they killed so many bear and they had so
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: much rendered fat that they just got a small bat toe.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: And they when they that, they filled up the bat
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: toe with bear fat and they took it down, uh,
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: down in Mississippi, and they you know, they get down
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: their path Memphis and they get on down their past. Yeah,
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: and nashes when they sold their bad to a full
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: of bear fat down there. And Masker bought a wedding
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: dress for his bride to be off bear fat. I
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: remember when his father in law stood it like him.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: I remember reading one time that Boone process Boon shot
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: uh thirteen black bears in a day one time hunt
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: with his dogs. Wow, wow, no kidding. Yeah, Well, your
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: Sandy Creek, you would appreciate this because I know you
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: had a some some grizzly run in. He had a
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: grizzly run in in Missouri when he was about seventy two. Um,
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: there was he just kind of had that moment that
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: I've ever had. But you guys could probably be tell
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: us about what you just since there's something there and
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: you start hearing the breath and uh, he looked and
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: there was a grizzly ride on him. He was checking
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: his bear traps out there on the excume. He's trying
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: to check in his beaver traps or the effort of Missouri.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: And he just jumped into a tilt popular pete role
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: and just shoveled off there into the Missouri and h
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: and he said later he thought he was getting little
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: too old for this. I want to get into the
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: two things that Boon people talk about now, the two mysteries.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: I think I know what's coming. Okay, I want to
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: end on the unknown. And yeah, and I don't know.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: You've played in both of these fields. You've written about
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: both these issues. The first one is did Daniel Boone
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: make it to the Rocky Mountains? Yeah, that's the It's
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: kind of like Grace. It works in the Bible. I
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: can kind of argue both ways. But there's two accounts
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: of Boone that have him fairly close to the Yellowstone.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: Okay and um, they were written by both of these
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: written by children of those two have claimed to have
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: gone with Boone, and uh, they're written about seventy or
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: eighty years after the account and and one of the
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: cases especially, the details are really great. I mean they're
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: really tribal specific, like the like the who's on the
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: who was on the trip, and that they had mcin
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: all boats and they were attacked by snake Indians and
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: kind of how that went down, and um, yeah, it
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: might have happened. I tend two remain neutral on that
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: because what happened since those two accounts that were written
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: a long time after the alleged event, was that you've
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: had other stories about people that actually did go up
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: that contemporaneous with Boon, like this hunter friend of Boone,
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: who name was Michael Stoner. His son George Stoner wrote
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: about that, and George Stoner says in his father's account,
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: he said, Daniel Boone did not go on this expedition.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: I've got the exact quote, in fact, I published it.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: But other writers have taken part of Stoner's account and
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: left out that part that Daniel Boone did not go,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: and they incorporated it with these other accounts that have
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: Boon there and have created, for lack of a better term,
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: hybrid accounts, and then those get republished and republished by
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: consensus historians and people like, well there you go. And
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: so I remained neutral on that. You know, I want him,
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: I want that moment, you know, I want that image
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: of Boons in the Yellowstone to make it to the
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: Second West. Yeah, I mean, you know, don't you. Yeah,
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: I mean I'm rooting for him. Yeah, I mean it's like,
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: you know where Boone lived in Missouri, this little tiny
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: Traffords village. It's kind of a my opinion, kind of
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: like them missing link in the Western Fur Trade los
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: Errette and it's um Lewis and Clark go through there
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: on both legs with their journey eighteen o three eighteen
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: o five, right of that time period, and zebuelon Pike
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: is there, you know, as Boone there too. Well see
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: there's no mention of Boone. But that's kind of like
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: my point about this Rocky Mountain thing. You know, you
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: want that, you want that to happen. He would have
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: been Robin elbows at those yeah, I mean, you know, like,
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: who's the big artist back in that time period, Alfred
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: Jacob Miller, you know, you want that that oil image
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: of Boone and Lewis and Clark and you know, like
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: like symbolic who you're passing the Yeah, fasten the torch,
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: you know, and you want that image. I do you know,
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: Carl Bobber, the artists or somebody painting Boone out there
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: and uh the Yellowstone, you know. But but the dates
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: are inconsistent. Uh, these hybrid accounts have proliferated and have
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: a period in you know, books that are out there,
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: and you know, they may have other evidence that I
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: don't have. I'm not gonna discount that, but I do
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: look at a lot of footnotes and I see a
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: lot of the accounts out there about Boone being in
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: the Rockies. And if you'll start examining footnotes, you'll see
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: that a lot of these stories have nothing to do
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: with Boone. It's the same way with the other mystery
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: that I think that you're going to bring up. Yeah,
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: here's the next mystery. Okay, the legend has this a
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: fraternity issue? Legend has it? No, no, no, no, I
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: don't know. That's a great mystery. But we're gonn get
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: a different miss as not even legend has it when
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: the facts are this Boon dies in Missouri. Oh, that
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: one gets buried. Okay, Later, even though he swore off Kentucky,
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: said he never go back to Kentucky. Later they come
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: and dig them up and haul um over and rebury
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: him in Kentucky and make like a little mausoleum for
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: him there in Kentucky, or like a what do you
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: call it? What's word? I'm looking for him? Yeah, yeah,
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: the little vault. Yeah. But then later some people come
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: out and say, I tricked you. That wasn't Boone. He's
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: still in Missouri. Yeah. I just wrote a book that
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: addresses every bit of that. I don't know if I'm
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: allowed to talk about my books. Yeah. Well that's the
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: last thing you're gonna do. After you answer this question.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: You can tell people what books you wrote. If you
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: want to go visit Boone's grave, Yeah, do you head
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: to Missouri or do you head to Kentucky. I had
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: the Kentucky because what was left of Daniel Boone and
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: what was left of his wife, Rebecca, and people tend
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: to leave her out. And by the way, we really
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: ought to talk about women on the frontier. Sometime uh
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: was exhumed and taken to Kentucky. Daniel Boon died in
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: Rebecca died seven years before. Just imagine this. You go
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: out on that little Noel out there and you said,
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: I want to be buried right there. I don't want
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: to be back into Kentucky because they treated me really
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: bad on land deals. And you know Boot always said,
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: give him the choice between going back to Kentucky and
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: laying his head on a chopping block. He'd have no
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: hesitation to lay his head on the shopping block. Really, yeah,
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: he didn't want to go back to Kentucky. You know
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: you had asked earlier about you know, why did didn't
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: Boot like Kentucky? Bood love Kentucky. He didn't love what
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: had happened to it. He didn't love what had happened
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: to him there. But yeah, his remains were exhumed, and
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: if you read the accounts very carefully, it's very clear
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: that they came and they dug up what they could find.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: You know, we're not talking about the greatest embalming methods
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: in twenty you know. And you know they get and
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: they put what's left of the Boone's in small pine
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: box is that are like wide enough for a pelvis
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: and long enough for long bones, fevers and stuff, and
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: kind of high enough for skulls. And they're in small
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: little boxes and they take these back to Kentucky and
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: they inter them in September eight Nobody when Moon was buried,
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: and for forty years, maybe fifty between forty five years
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: after he was buried, nobody ever said anything about he
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: may be in the wrong grave, or they might have
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: got the wrong bones or something like that. None of
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: that ever happened. It happens. You know, by about eight nine, Missourians, Uh,
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: they want the boone's back. They realized kind of like
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: what they've done. And I just had to tell you
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: the Missourians really got um kind of craft on by
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: the Kentuckians. You know, they could you know, the Kentucky
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: has wanted to build a really and they did. They
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: wanted a fancy cemetery with the state capital, and so
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: they organized a corporation, the Frankfort Cemetery Company into and
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: they they wanted a garden cemetery. Garden cemeteries were really
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: big in Europe. They were big in America, like in
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: Mount Auburn in Boston. You know, but we got to
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: have famous people, Well who do we get you know,
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: you had to have a famous person to make Yeah, well,
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: people would come in and they would stroll around, and
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: there was an idea that it's kind of like spiritualism,
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: which I know you've heard of. They think that you're
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: you're not only communing with each other, but you're communing
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: with the dead. And and this is a garden cemetery
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: um had they would actually import in trees and shrubs
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: and landscaping. Um. It was a whole novel kind of thing.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: You know that the cemeteries that they had then, like
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: in Frankfort, you know you had a future church cemeteries
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: with the leaning crosses and some mold farm cemeteries or
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: dogs were digging up bones and dragging them around. And
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: so they really wanted a suitable cemetery for Frankfort. And
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: so to make this go you had to have somebody famous.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: And so who but you know, the the first family
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: of pioneering in Kentucky, Daniel and Rebecca Boon. And so, yeah,
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: the way that the needle is threaded a lot of
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: times these days people will say I've had a number
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: of Missourians who, at least up to this time of
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: this recording, has accepted me as a friend and as
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: a brother. There's still tension between Missouri and Kentucky about
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: this politically and um. But they'll say, well, yeah, the
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: Kentuckians came about what bones they could get, but we
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: have his viscera, we have his heart, we have his skin.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: And they start really like kind of threading that kind
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: of needle, like he's mainly here in the soil, but
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: they have some bones. So you know your original question,
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: where should we go to visit them? Well, by that interpretation,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: you go bote to the little cimitar ary that David
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: Bryan Cemetery in present day Morrisesville, Missouri, and then you
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: go to frankfurt Um. But I don't think we make
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: those exceptions about other people. I can you know, if
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: you bring it back war veterans like from I don't
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: know where, you you know, Vietnam or IWA, GiMA or something,
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: they don't go like, well, you know, we have a
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: little bit I mean more about Arlington, but the bulk
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: of mem still over and you incorporated into the minerals
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: of the soil. Yeah, I mean that's so, but I
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: understand that, and uh, you know, both places have their
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: validity and Uh, you know, it really is a shame.
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: But you know, Frankfort, Kentucky, if we're at me, like,
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: where would I go and say this is what was
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: left to the man, This is where I would go.
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: Is there anything that we left out that you wish
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: we'd have talked about today about old dB? Yeah? I
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: think I think Boone fundamentally was a very good man.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: I think at a time when America could use heroes
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: that that Boon in his own way kind of helps
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: filled that niche. He certainly had his flaws, and we
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: really have trouble relating to this time period. I mean
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: that there's only very few times in Boone's lifetime, very
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: few years where he's not living in an era of
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: a named war. I mean he's born in seventeen thirty four.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: You know, by seventeen forty four you have King George's War,
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: which is in uh New York. It's an Arcadia, it's
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: spilling into the Caribbean, but that will help precipitate the
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: French and Indian War, and he lives through that. And
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: then you have this really very brief bloody epoch, uh,
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: Lord Dunbore's War of just death up and down the Frontier.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: Boon lives through that. You have the American Revolution. Uh,
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: then you have the War of eighteen twelve, and and
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: Boons seventy two years old, and he's still participating locally
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: in Missouri in the War of eighteen twelve. He's helping
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: guard for its and man palisades and so forth. It's
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: just this, it's just a different time. It's just a
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: different era, and we can't go back and judge people
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: by those kinds of standards. I mean, they're not hunting
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: um two uh, some kind of a recreational thing. I
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: mean it was extraordinarily hard and frankly put. You know,
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: the frontier wasn't tamed literally until the women came out there.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: You know, it's the women that basically civilized the men.
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: I mean the women did everything that the men did.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: Like Rebecca Boon. I mean she shoots the flintlock, she's
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: skinned the deer, she managed the palisades, she molds bullets.
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: She's willingly takes her pewter, which is precious items they
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: didn't have very much, and takes the pewter and molds
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: that down and use that for bullets. Um. The women
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: would go out in teams while the men are gone
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: long hunting or while the men are off skirmishing, the
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: women go out in teams and plow. You know, one
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: group would plow wow. Another group would out be out
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: there with their guns and there must gets, and they're
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: sometimes pitchforks and axes, whatever they had, and they would
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: guard the women that were plowing, and after an hour
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: or so they would switch. And so it's when the
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: women get out there. You know. I really am a
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: firm believer without being too cliche, that behind successful men
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: there are important, powerful women. And this is certainly the
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: case of Daniel Boone. Um. You know, he was married
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: to Rebecca for fifty six years. She bears ten children
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: and one dies soon after birth. They adopt four more
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: from Boone's brother Israel. Then they adopt six more from
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: Rebecca's sister who dies. You know, but they're really typical
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: of the American pioneer. You know. The American long hunter
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: is the first real American fist in the wilderness. John
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: Stewart is the first American blood, true American blood that's
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: slained in the first salvos of the American Revolution before
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: it really happens. Uh, these guys with the driving force
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: that helped found this country. And you know Boone was
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: never a war monger. You know, you had those kind
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: of people just like you had um and in the
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: ancient world, whether you're talking about Achilles or Napoleon or
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: Patent or so forth, that's not Boone. Um. You know,
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: he didn't brandish his patriotism. But they founded this country.
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: And um enough camp he said, they were the first
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: and my apologies to Tom Broke, all the first great
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: generation and they should be be given their due. He's
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: been on the show. Indeed, we were talking earlier about
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: Samuel Brady and Lou Whistle and these guys that turned
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: into rabbit Indian haters. Boone had every reason to be that,
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: yet he was not. That He had his firstborn son,
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: James is killed by Indians, second born son Israel, killed
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: by Indians, brother in law John Stewart, killed by Indians,
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: brother ned Edward. They called it killed by Indie ends
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: and yet Boone never reverted to that level of savagery.
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: Part of this is his upbringing. He was raised a Quaker.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: He really saw value in other cultures and he learned
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: from Indians. His learning from Indian tail to hunt that
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: only made him successful as as a hunter, but also
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: just reveals a mindset of his true humanity. And this
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: is a pattern that he'll have throughout his life. And
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: in many ways that you know, we were flawed characters.
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: We all have, I do tremendous feet of clay. But
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: but there's a lot about Boon that is very, very admirable.
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: He never resourced to like the racial the racial hating.
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: You had men in his day that literally would drag
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: Indian corpses up to the fort, like Hugh mc garry
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: would do this and chop them up and feed them
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: to the dogs because they were so embittered because of
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: death in their own family. And this the idea that
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: somehow this gives them a personal revenge. And Boone saw this.
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: You know, how would I react to seeing that? I
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: don't know? And how do you living that and not
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: revert to some level of savagery like that yourself. This
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: is what's so interesting about Boone. You know, you had
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: men that and this is one reason why people feared
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: the forest. I mean the term savage. We would oftentimes
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: just apply this to Indians, and they didn't just apply
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: to Indians. You know, the beast were savage. The forests
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 1: were savage, the people within the forest were savage. They
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: feared that because it was seen as like this dark,
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: malevolent forest that you would revert to. Boone never does.
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: Now he stays this kind of figure of great humanity.
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: And even today, you know, why are we talking about
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: him two one years after his death? I think for
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: these kind of reasons. His resonance is still there. And
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: then you have the just the notion of going over
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: the next hill and seeing what's over there, and that
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: it really is. You know that that heart that was
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: beating under that buckskin coat, that's the heart of every American.
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: That's something deep and precious on our own. Psyche, I think, Yeah,
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 1: you got a new book come out recently. We're gonna
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: plux books before we end here. Okay, I'll tell you
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: my favorite book. You tell me you're tell me your
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: new book. My new book is called Finding Daniel Boone,
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: His Last Days in Missouri and the Strange Fate of
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 1: his remains. And it covers every shred of where Boone is,
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: you know, the history of this entire episode, all the
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 1: different stories and legend. It has the only forensic evidence
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: that was ever done on the on the Boone's Skull Cast,
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: but it's it also incorporates a lot of information about
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: Boone's last days in Missouri, like the area that he
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: lived in and uh La Cherette, Missouri. It talks a
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: lot about his hunting and trapping. His last was kind
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: of adventures, and it's done in a kind of a
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: narrative combination of first person and third person, kind of
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: like Tony Horwitz. I don't know if you like, you know,
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: Ian Frasier, those kind of guys. I love their writing.
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: And um yeah, that one just came out. That's available
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: from the History Press and I'm looking at it on
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: Amazon right now. I brought your coffee. Oh sweet, I
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: need to hit order. So I'll tell you how I
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: found you, how I became a fan of your books.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: Your book The Long Hunt, Death of the Buffalo East
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: of the Mississippi, which is a good ass book. Then
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: my personal favorite, which I read after that, was just
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: The Hunters of Kentucky and it tells the stories, methodologies,
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: everything of the Long Hunters. Yeah, yeah, The Hunters that
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: Kentucky a narrative history of America's first Far West. Great book.
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Yeah, you put it on a like top
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: ten list in TWI or something that one of my
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: friends sent me. The link probably sold the Piss album too,
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: didn't we like hotcakes? Yeah? Five cents of stacks. I'm
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: looking at it right now, paperback. Well, I would encourage
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: folks to us. If they don't mind to support my work,
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: I will say, um, you know my books are available
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, from local indies and
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: so forth. I try to support them. The new book
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: out on on Boone, on Finding Daniel Boone. That's the
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: only real glimpse of Boone's um Missouri years. I would
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: like to do a much larger work. It actually wasn't
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: much larger work, but I had to scale it way back.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: If you want to dig in though on some of
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: the subject we've covered most extensively here, Uh The Hunters
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: of Kentucky narrative history of America's first far As the West,
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: phenomenal book. Thank you, Yeah, I got it. I got
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: a phone call one day. It was March sixth this year,
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: and uh it was from Russia Western Writers of America.
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: And I didn't I let it record because I didn't
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: know what it was. But I did it. Three part
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: trilogy on Daniel Boone's This Whole Rocky Mountain Story and
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: for Muzzleloader Magazine. I write for Muzzleloader Magazine magazine for
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: a black Powder Affecianados and um Unknown to Be. This
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: three part article from Muzzleloader had been submitted to Western
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 1: Writers of America and it actually won UM Best Short Nonfiction.
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: So I went out to Colorado and yeah, I got
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 1: a relationship. Man, I mean, I got ah, it's pretty cool. Yeah,
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: and so um yeah, so that's great your work was
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: your work was honored. Yeah. I thought it was a
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: prank phone call at first, because I have a lot
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: of friends that would and stuff like that. I had
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: that half a one time I was in college. So
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: I call him, said, yeah, Glenn Campbell wants you to
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: play with him, And I said really. I started jumping
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: up and down, and I think it was a girl
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: from the door of the next over. I just played
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: with Glenn Campbell on a golf course and so I
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: thought he was calling me back. I never got the call.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: That's great to have. Uh, that's great that you're work
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 1: was recognized. I'm a big fan of the books. I
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: love the books. Oh, people go out and get some
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: check them. Out. Yeah, And before we wrap up, as
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: this episode airs, Clay Nucombe is all it's in the
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: middle of a multi part series on Bargrease about Daniel Bood.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: So if you're if you're interested, go read Ted's books
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 1: and listen to bar Grease. Thank you for having me.
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: It's been a real honor and I really really do
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: appreciate it. And I'll point out the folks real quick.
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: Did uh Clay Newcomb Beargrease podcast is doing right now.
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: He's doing a couple of pieces on Boone, focusing on
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: the Cumberland Gap and what else is he focusing on?
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: Phil Oh, he's he's diving into everything. I think it's
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: gonna be a three episode series, but he's he's also
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: tackling kind of um Like Ted brought up how we
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: needed heroes at that time, He's diving into kind of
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: Boone's effect on pop culture and how we see ourselves
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: as Americans and kind of a societal impact and stuff
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: like that. Fascinating character man. All right, Ted Franklin Blue,
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: check out his books. Thank you much, appreciate it, appreciate
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: you coming on. Thank you very much. I mean, you know,
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: for for a Kentucky boy by way of Florida. He is.
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: It's a big deal, and and I really sure enough,
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. I wish you're corporate, if he
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: didn't have short writ up. But you can't have everything.
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 1: S