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"Of MAGA and Midterms (with John Fetterman!)" · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: On today's show, the final stretch of the 2022 midterms
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: has begun, but it's still Trump versus Biden on the
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: campaign trail. And joining us later is the Democratic candidate
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: with maybe the best chance to flip a Senate seat,
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Pennsylvania Lieutenant Governor John Fetterman.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Exciting. Exciting. I'm excited.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Did you hear me knocking on wood when you said
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: best chance?
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, best chance of, I was saying of any other Democratic,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: in any other state.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: All right. Come on, people.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Also, I think Mandela Barnes has a very good chance, too.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: But I think if you're looking at numbers, you know, Pennsylvania,
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: you're probably the best chance.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: This is a numbers-free podcast. We're all vibes.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: If you are not caffeinated enough, we got a coffee
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: sale for you. Now through this weekend, get free shipping
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: when you spend $ 35 or more on Crooked Coffee. Use
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: code FUELUP at checkout when you head to crooked.com slash coffee.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: That's the code, Dan. It's FUELUP. I know you were
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: wondering about that. Do you know.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I was at the White House yesterday for this.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, I know. You were at the White House.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: And many people asked me about you because you obviously
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: could not attend for a work obligation. Yes, we were.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: And I just told everyone that you were a coffee
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: salesman now, an online barista.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I can't believe you ignore the shoes that we're moving.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Ignore them. I'm wearing them. Thank you.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Also, check out Crooked's newest show, Dare We Say. This week,
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: the hosts explore the ongoing erosion of the separation between
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: church and state and what this shift means for their
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Gen Z peers and their futures. New episodes of Dare
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: We Say drop every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts. Finally, Dan,
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: get ready. The wilderness is back. The trailer for season
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: three is out today. The first episode is out Monday.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: I talked to Biden voters in Virginia, Pittsburgh. Orange County,
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: Las Vegas, and Atlanta who haven't yet made up their
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: minds about the midterms. And then I sat down with
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: some of the smartest people in politics to talk about
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: these focus groups and get their thoughts on how Democrats
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: can reassemble the 2020 coalition for the 2022 midterms and beyond.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: Everyone should take a listen. You'll be surprised, might be
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: a little frustrated, but hopefully you'll be energized and hopeful.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm going for.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: It may be late for this, but had you considered
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: as a title for this season, Return to the Wilderness?
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: You know, Dan, it's sort of how I start episode one.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: You're on my way.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: It's weird I don't get invited to more branding meetings
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: at Crooked.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: All right. Anyway, check out the trailer. Subscribe. You'll hear
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: the first episode on Monday. Okay, let's get to the news.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: Labor Day is the traditional kickoff to the final stretch
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: of any campaign that And even though we're heading into 2022,
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: the conversation this week has been dominated by Joe Biden
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: and Donald Trump, who just held dueling speeches in Pennsylvania.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: One of the judges Trump appointed also granted his request
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: for a special master to review all the documents the
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: FBI found in his beach house, which will have the
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: effect of temporarily pausing the investigation into the 2024 Republican frontrunner, who,
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: according to a new Washington Post story this week, had
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: been hiding highly classified information about a foreign government's nuclear
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: weapons program in Mar-a-Lago, as well as documents so secret
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: that only the president and a few cabinet members could
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: authorize other government officials to know about them. Naturally, Trump
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: is doing what any good strategist or lawyer would tell
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: a candidate to do who's under criminal investigation for stealing
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: nuclear secrets. He's making it part of his stump speech.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: The FBI and the Justice Department have become vicious monsters.
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: It was not just my home that was raided last month.
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: It was the hopes and dreams of every citizen who
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: I've been fighting for since the moment I came down
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: the Golden Escalator.
• 4:30
  Speaker 5: The Mar-a-Lago raid was a desperate effort to distract from
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: Joe Biden's record of misery and failure. As you know,
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: this week, Joe Biden came to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, to give
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: the most vicious, hateful, and divisive speech Overdelivered by an
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: American president vilifying 75 million citizens as threats to democracy.
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: And as enemies of the state. You're all enemies of
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: the state.
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: He's an enemy of the state.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: You want to know the truth?
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: The FBI didn't just raid his home, Dan. They raided
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: your hopes and dreams. I love that part. Just terrible
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: speech writing.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: All right. Lots to unpack there.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Let's start with Judge Eileen Cannon's decision to stop the
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: investigation until a special master can look through all the
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: documents they found in Mar-a-Lago and separate the nuclear secrets
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: Trump stole from his old porn stash.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: What are they going to do? What do you make
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: of the ruling? What happens now?
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Well, as we have stipulated, Every episode since we got
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: really deep into Trump's crimes over the last month here.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: So we are not amateur lawyers.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: We are not lawyers.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: We but we do follow a lot of lawyers on Twitter.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: So I feel like I can speak with some authority
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: on this matter.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you, they are outraged. Yes.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: And some of your favorite Twitter lawyers think this ruling
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: is bullshit.
• 6:08
  Speaker 6: Including new.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Attorney General of Resistance Nation, Bill Barr, who thinks it's absurd.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: He called it a crock of shit. Bill Barr called
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: it a crock of shit, this ruling. That's what you
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: need to know. Resistance hero, Bill Barr.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Get your bobblehead doll. Get your votive candle with Bill
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Barr on it.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: We got a Mueller doll. We got a Christopher Wray doll.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: We got a Bill Barr doll. We got an Eric
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Hirschman doll. All right, any of them. You don't really
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: even have to be a lawyer or even follow top
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: lawyers on Twitter to understand why this ruling is idiocy
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: because one of the main– you're going to have a
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: huge debate about whether executive privilege, which is the reason
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: for the special master. The special master is going to
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: go through these documents to see which might be subject
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: to executive privilege. Now, it's worth stipulating that executive privilege
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: has never applied to former presidents. It certainly doesn't apply
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: to documents moving within the executive branch, which is where
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: the FBI and Department of Justice is. But there's like
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: a massive factual error of this ruling where it says
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: that President Biden did not weigh in because the sitting
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: president makes determinations on executive privilege because they are the executive,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: not the fucking Yahoo in the beach house. Whether he
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: had not weighed in on whether executive privilege could be
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: claimed here, but he did in the letter from the
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: archivist that Trump's team foolishly weirdly released last month. And
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: so this is just a bunch of idiocy. The impact
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: of this is everyone has sort of written is that
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: this will delay but not necessarily derail the investigation. But
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: the delay does matter because if it kicks it down
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: the curb for a long time, you're going to be
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: put in a position where the context in which a
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: potential indictment could be announced is in the middle of
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: a presidential campaign, which it should not be more complicated.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: There is no special provision in the law that says
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: if you're running for president, you can't go to jail
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: for crimes you committed. But as we know, everything is
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: political and that will add some of the complications of
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: such an announcement if that were to happen.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: Our boy, Billy Barr, has said he's he's like pretty
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: certain this would be overturned because like to just know
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: how crazy the executive the executive privilege ruling is here,
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: the ruling about executive privilege. There is some dispute over
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: like whether former presidents can ever have a claim of
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: executive privilege. But the ruling that that's the Supreme Court
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: ruling that's based on took place before the Presidential Records
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: Act was passed into law. The Presidential Records Act makes very,
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: very clear what you just said, which is that the
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: current president gets to decide what documents are privileged or not,
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: not the former president. So now, if you get a
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: special master, first of all, to find a special master,
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: you have to have both sides agree on candidates to
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: be this person. The person has to be classified at
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: the highest level in order to even see some of
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: these documents. And then this person has to make some
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: determination about which documents are privileged and which aren't, even
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: though the law does not spell that out at all,
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: because the law says that nothing's privileged because Joe Biden
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: gets to make the privilege, make the decision on privilege.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: So it's like preposterous. So the government, the DOJ has
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: an option. They either go down this route trying to
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: find a special master with all those qualifications who can
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: do that, which seems very, very difficult. But I guess
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: they have to list Friday, both sides, to come up
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: with a list of potential special master candidates they agree on.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: Or the DOJ appeals this ruling to the 11th Circuit. Now,
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: the issue there is the 11th Circuit has 11 judges,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: six are Trump-appointed judges, and five are not. But people like,
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: even very conservative people like Bill Barr think, that even
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: though there are other Trump judges on this 11th Circuit Court,
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: there's no way they would uphold this.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: We'll see.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: There's an interesting story in the New York Times today
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: about the dilemma that Justice has, which is I think
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: they believe on the merits, they would win this and
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: win it easily. But there are two challenges to an appeal. One,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: it further delays the special master issue. And there is
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: a concern that you could just get a run of
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Trump judges running up to the Trump Supreme Court and
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: which could create an entirely absurd new expansion of executive
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: power to include former presidents. And so there's a potential
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: challenge to this. Even if they are 100% right on
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: the merits, there are timing and larger issues beyond Trump
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: they have to wrestle with as they make this decision.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: But it seems like they're going to have to appeal
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: because even if they don't want to criminally charge Trump,
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: The national intelligence assessment of the damage and the fallout
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: from Trump having these secrets can't even continue. The judge
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: said it technically can continue. But in all reality, like
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: you can't do a fair assessment of this if like
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: the DOJ and the FBI can't be involved in looking
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: at the documents and help with the investigation into what
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: damage has been done from Trump holding these documents. Like
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: it's not there's there's they're trying to build a fake
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: wall between the intelligence officials. And the Justice Department officials
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: and saying that the intelligence officials can keep going with
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: the investigation, but the Justice Department can't. But in reality,
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: that doesn't work. So like if they want to do
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: this assessment, which they have to for national security reasons,
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: they're going to have to appeal this.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: It's the whole thing is so stupid. Like the fact
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: that we're in this place is so dumb. It has
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: nothing to do with it. The point is they're not
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: his documents. No one has ever suggested there's documents. There's
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: no precedent. They're his documents. He took them. He wasn't
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: supposed to. He lied about it. He obstructed the investigation.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: And because Mitch McConnell ran through some fucking Yahoo to
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: sit at the court of Mar-a-Lago, we're in this position
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: where Trump is once again using the tyranny of the
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: political minority to avoid criminal prosecution.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: Good argument for fighting pretty hard to keep the Senate.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: Because even if Democrats lose the House, if we keep
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: the Senate, Joe Biden can keep nominating and confirming judges.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: So we don't have more fucking Trump judges who do
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: Yahoo rulings like this. Anyway, so you heard Trump at
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: the rally. He said that this raid was a distraction
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: from Joe Biden's failures and called law enforcement officers vicious
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: monsters who didn't just raid his home again, but raided
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: the hopes and dreams of every citizen he's been fighting for.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: You think that defense works with anyone who's... not a
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: diehard Trump supporter?
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Do I find it ironic that the Blue Lives Matter
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: crowd are the ones who are accusing federal law enforcement
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: agents of being enemies of the state who are planning
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: evidence on a former president and are apparatchiks in Joe
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Biden's political army? Yeah, I find that ironic. Do I
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: think this is going to be particularly persuasive for the
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: plurality of Americans who think Donald Trump is dangerous and
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: unfit for office?
• 12:52
  Speaker 7: No.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: But it is an argument with political power. because modern conservatism,
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: particularly Donald Trump's amped up version of it, depends on
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: the propagation of a conspiratorial, apocalyptic victimization, right? Everyone's coming
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: after us, because what that does is it creates permission
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: structure to do anything and everything, suppress votes, steal elections,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: seize the electoral apparatus, political violence. And so This is
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: something worth paying attention to. He is trying to create
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: a sense of grievance and victimization among his base to
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: get them to turn out. I don't think it's moving
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: anyone from the Trump camp to the non-Trump camp or
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: the non-Trump camp to the Trump camp. But Donald Trump
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: has really understood from the beginning that his political power
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: is tied to just how fired up his base is,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: which is a minority of Republicans. And if they're fired
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: up and they're amped up, then every other Republican has
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: to bend the knee. And so this message will protect
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: him within the party, and that's the first step to
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: protecting him more broadly.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't enlarge the base, but it further radicalizes
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: the base, which is quite dangerous at this point.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: It's just so ridiculous, though.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: I realize that that's the demagogue authoritarian move. They're not
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: coming after me. They're coming after you. But it's just
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: so funny. It's like, yeah, people think it's a raid
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: on their beach house. Who among us hasn't left intel
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: on Chinese nuclear submarines lying around on a lounge chair.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: If that can happen to him, it can happen to anyone.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, it is just sort of wild. If you
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: just sort of think about it, you back up, which
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: is the FBI raided the home of the former president.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: He is under multiple criminal investigations. In fact, between when
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: you and I spoke this morning and the recording of
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: this podcast, another criminal investigation dropped. There's now a federal
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: grand jury investigating his super PAC for... fraud or fundraising
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: scams or whatever else. And yet at that moment, every
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Republican on the ballot ran to stand next to him
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania. That's insane. It makes sense in this moment,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: but if you were to try to explain this 10
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: years ago or 10 years from now, I'd be like,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: what the fuck is happening?
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: Well, it has been fun listening to Republican candidates try
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: to defend Trump's theft of highly classified nuclear secrets. Here's
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: an answer from the guy who once said that Donald
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Trump can't be trusted with the nuclear codes.
• 15:35
  Speaker 7: A storage argument that they're making, right? They're arguing there
• 15:37
  Speaker 7: are documents there. They don't deny that he should have
• 15:40
  Speaker 7: access to those documents, but they deny that they were
• 15:42
  Speaker 7: not properly stored. I don't think a fight over storage
• 15:46
  Speaker 7: of documents is worthy of what they've done.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: Dan, how many politicos would you give Marco Rubio for
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: his take? That it's just a storage issue. This is
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: a storage issue.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Somewhere between 400 and 500 would be my answer. I mean,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: this is a euphemism for the century. Calling the theft
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: of classified documents being stored in an unlocked desk drawer
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: a document storage issue would be like calling bank robbery
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: an overly aggressive financial transaction.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I misplaced some funds.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, and also, I don't even want to get
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: into the butter emails of it all, but like Hillary
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: Clinton turned out didn't have any classified emails. After all that,
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: after all, after the determination that maybe it was sloppy
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: and this and the server, like no classified emails on her.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: This guy has fucking nuclear secrets in his beach house. Yeah.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Un-fucking-real.
• 16:51
  Speaker 7: All right.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: I do want to talk about the broader midterm context here.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: In that clip we played earlier, we also heard Trump
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: talk about Biden's speech in Philadelphia, where he accused the
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: president of vilifying millions of citizens as enemies of the state.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Here's a clip from Biden's speech.
• 17:07
  Speaker 8: Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that
• 17:12
  Speaker 8: threatens the very foundations of our republic.
• 17:16
  Speaker 7: Now, I want to be very clear.
• 17:19
  Speaker 8: Very clear up front, not every Republican, not even the
• 17:24
  Speaker 8: majority of Republicans are MAGA Republicans. Not every Republican embraces
• 17:29
  Speaker 8: their extreme ideology. I know because I've been able to
• 17:33
  Speaker 8: work with these mainstream Republicans. But there's no question that
• 17:39
  Speaker 8: the Republican Party today is dominated, driven, and intimidated by
• 17:44
  Speaker 8: Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans. And that is a
• 17:48
  Speaker 8: threat to this country.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: There was an interminable amount of debate about this speech
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: that I'd rather not rehash for our poor listeners. I
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: felt grateful we didn't have a pod earlier in the
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: week so we didn't have to talk about the fresh
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: takes on this speech. But like, let's just let's let's
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: go to this question. What do you think the White
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: House strategy was with this speech? Primetime speech, big speech,
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: he goes to Philadelphia. Why do you think they did it?
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: There has been, over the course of the last six
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: or so months, this sort of debate among Democratic operatives, pundits,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: campaign folks about what the fall message should be about.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Should it be about what Democrats have delivered? What have
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: we done? Should it be about kitchen table issues? Should
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: it be about January 6th? something else and i think
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: by giving this speech which is to a call to
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: make this election a referendum on republican extremism the white
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: joe biden in the white house sent a message to
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: every democrat every command and frankly every reporter covering these
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: campaigns what this should be about that they see the
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: central issue here to be the extremism of mega republicans
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: and it is like this is like what the white
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: house can do to help enforce some sort of message
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: cohesion among the party is to give a big speech,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: give it in prime time, get a lot of attention,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: and hope that everyone follows. And so I think that's
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: what the goal is here, is to lay their cards
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: down for what they think the best message is for
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: this all. And we see there's a new Navigator poll
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: out today, and there's also a new Reuters poll, which
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: both show the power of this extremism argument and the
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: willingness of a majority of voters to believe that Republicans
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: are dangerous extremists.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the Reuters poll today is taken after in the
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: days after Biden's speech. It's interesting. 58% in the polls
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: say that Trump's make America great again. movement is threatening
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: America's democratic foundations. That includes 25% of Republicans. Some of
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: you are probably thinking, only 25%? That's pretty good. 60%
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: of Republicans don't think Trump's MAGA movement represents the majority
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: of the party, which I thought was interesting.
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: But.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: then 59% said Biden's speech will further divide the country,
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: though half said that they didn't watch or follow the
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: speech at all, which I think those numbers, those sort
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: of conflicting, seemingly conflicting numbers kind of say it all.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: But like, do you think Biden's speech should be the
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: basis for the Democratic midterm message?
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I do. I think we have an overwhelming political and frankly,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: moral obligation to turn all of our firepower on focusing
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: on the dangers of this Republican Party. And it's not
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: just dangerous to democracy and extremism in these vague ways,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: it is abortion. It is attacking marriage equality, attacking trans people,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: book bans, privatizing social security, overturning elections, all of it.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: And I think that we've talked a lot about how
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: the Dobbs decision has sort of to catalyze democratic movement.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: We've seen these stories about people getting fired up and
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: people registering to vote. We saw what happened in Kansas
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: and in the New York special election with Pat Ryan,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: whom you guys talked to last week. But ultimately what
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: I think the Dobbs decision did is it crystallized the
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: impact of Republican extremism. And if you can convince, and
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: I think what is important to us is that we use,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: is that abortion is an absolutely central issue in this race,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: but it is a gateway issue into a broader conversation
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: of Republican extremism. Because if you can convince someone that,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: or even done in commencement, inform voters that these Republicans
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: have these incredibly extreme positions on abortion, that they want
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: to ban it in cases of rape and incest and
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: life of the mother, that they're going to start attacking
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: IVF and all of these other things. If people understand that,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: then they are more likely to believe, and this is
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: correctly believed, that these same Republicans will overthrow elections. They
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: will attack marriage equality. They will eliminate social security. They
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: will do all of these things. And so I believe that,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, we talked about this a little bit last week,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: but there is a very, very dangerous strain in this
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: country right now. And we have to call that out.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: And there is no political downside in doing it. And
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: there's a whole heck of a lot of political upside
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: in it.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Let me ask you this.
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: No, interesting. We're off script.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Do you think, because I've thought about this a lot.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: Do you think that anyone who watched that speech, who
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: wasn't already voting for Democrats- would be convinced to vote
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: for Democrats based on that speech?
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: I think that we, that is a over, maybe I don't,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: the speech is the speech, right? Not that many people
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: watch the speech. The overwhelming amount of people who consume
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: the speech are going to be consuming it in just
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: the conversation around it. Most of our target voters will
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: consume it, neither the speech nor the conversation. And so
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: when it's the tail effects of the message, it's what
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: the various campaigns like John Fetterman, who we're going to
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: talk to in a little bit, put in their messaging,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: in their paid messaging. That is what is going to matter.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: It's like, no, there are no undecided voters watching live
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: primetime speeches other than in moments of extreme national crisis.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: So that, like that, that, I think that's the wrong
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: way of looking at it. It's also, that is a,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's an overly narrow view of politics to
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: be like, hey, I'm a, I'm definitely voting and I'm
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: trying to decide between voting for Dr.
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: Oz or.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Or John Fetterman, what role is his speech going to play?
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: The other question to look at is what does that
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: speech and that broader message do to turn out more
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: people who voted for Joe Biden in 2020 who would
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: otherwise sit out these midterms out of complacency or lack
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: of political engagement? That is how to think about it,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: I think, more than persuading a narrow swath of voters.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Not that those voters aren't going to matter, but we
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: really just have to keep people in our camp more
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: than take people who voted for Trump and move them
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: to our camp in order to hold the House and
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: keep the Senate.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that I completely agree with.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: I also agree that the with the general strategy of
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: making the 2022 midterms a referendum on Republican extremism.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: I think that's correct.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: I think that the headlines out of that speech, because
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: the media is annoying, but also predictable, is like, you know,
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: Biden draws line in the sand. It's it's, you know,
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Biden versus MAGA. And, you know, here's dark Brandon.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: And all that bullshit.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: I would, in a Democratic message, if I was running
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: a Democratic campaign, I do think I would try to separate,
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: we talked about this before the speech, sort of separate
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: MAGA from Republicans writ large. I think that's useful, but
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: you heard Biden try to do that in the, and
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: he did do that in the clip that we played.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: He specifically said, not all Republicans are MAGA Republicans. I
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: think it would help to be more specific and talk
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: about MAGA politicians so that it's clear you're not trying
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: to talk about voters or guess what voters might do.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: Are there a whole bunch of people in this country
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: who are part of the MAGA movement? Some of them
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: stormed the fucking Capitol on January 6th?
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: But if you're a politician, if you're running in one
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: of these races and you are trying to get voters
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: to choose between you and a MAGA politician, you want
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: to focus all of your attacks possible on the politician themselves.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: And to the extent that you're talking about Republican extremism
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: or mega extremism, you want to be, I think, as
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: specific as possible about how that extremism is going to
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: affect your life. And you were just saying that, right?
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: So you have to be explicit about the abortion bans,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: explicit about the fact that they want to overturn elections,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: explicit about the fact that they're going to privatize Social Security.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: So all the things, all the freedoms that they're going
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: to take away, all the policies that they're going to
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: put into place, all the votes that they've taken in
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: the past, you have to be extremely specific about what
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: they are for people and get that message out. And
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying this because having talked to all these
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: voters for the wilderness, I was struck by... So these
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: were all Biden voters, right? But they haven't made up
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: their minds. These were not people who voted for Donald
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: Trump in 2020. This is part of our coalition.
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: And....
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: There was not a lot of love for the Republican
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: Party from these people. And a lot of them thought
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: that the Republicans were pretty extreme. There was a lot
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: of disgust with politics, a lot of disappointment about politics,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: and a lot of feeling about Democrats in general, though
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: it's funny because we're about to talk to Fetterman and
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: they all in Pittsburgh, they all loved Fetterman. But what
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: the people who are making up their minds, not just
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: about whether to vote for a Democrat versus Republican, but
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: whether to vote at all, wanted to know what are
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Democrats going to do for me? What is it that
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: the Republican candidate is going to do that that Republican
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: candidate stands for that is so bad? I don't really
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: pay much attention to the news. I do feel like
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: politics is very divisive and everyone's yelling at each other.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: And the Republicans seem kind of crazy, but like, I
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: don't know, why do I need to go vote at all?
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: And so it is, I'm not saying that the White
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: House could have solved that challenge in one speech that
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: you're right, most of.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: These voters probably did not watch.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: But I wonder as we move forward, And as Democratic
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: candidates craft their own message, just like how specific they
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: have to be. And like, here's the politician, here's the
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: bad things they're going to do to you. And here's
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: what I'm going to do instead.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: So two points on this. Yeah, I agree with the
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: general thrust here. I think even if Biden had said
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: exactly what you wanted him to say, like was super specific,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: like repeated that distinction 100 times, the press coverage would
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: look 95% the same.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: And Republicans would have said 95% the same thing. But
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: the two points here are, one, your mileage may vary
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: on whether you want to light Independence Hall blood red
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: for your speech. But what is true and important is
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: controversy and conflict are what drive conversation in this media age.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Most of Biden's speeches are neither controversial nor contain a
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: lot of conflict. And therefore, they have driven very little conversation.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Here we are one week later. talking about a Biden
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: speech delivered on, yes, it was in prime time, but
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: it was on the Thursday before Labor Day in a
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: heat wave, right? And so he achieved something is that
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: he is dominating the conversation. And that always comes with
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: downside because if you're in a conversation, there are two
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: sides of it and they're going to people craft. The
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: second thing is not to get back on my usual
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: bullshit here, but is this is just like the one
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: millionth argument for why Democrats are at such a disadvantage
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: when they rely on on the traditional political media to
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: get the message out. Because of course, you're going to
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: have reporters who feel a need to just both sides
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: the shit out of it. You have one of the
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: two cable networks who aired it live in the middle
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: of an identity crisis where they're trying to appeal to
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: billionaire Fox News viewing board members of their new company.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: And it's going to be stupid. And you had network,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: you know, the Disney Corporation, Comcast deciding whether to show
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: the speech to their audiences. And so we're in the
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: hands of this corporate media. And that's just, Republicans also
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: have that challenge, but then they have this other apparatus
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: to get their message out. And it is like the
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: challenge for the White House here going forward is, are
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: they taking the core of that message and finding ways
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: to get it in front of their viewers in ways
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: that don't depend on CNN, right? And so that is
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: always what is hard about this. And like, I know
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: it's everything, but just it's all confirmation bias for me
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: with every news story I write on that issue. But
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: This was, I think, a pretty vivid example of one
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: when you know, he, the president goes out, gives a
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: speech about a existential threat to our democracy. And then
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: you have people having optics arguments about the use of
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Marine guards, color lighting.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: And it's all just so I'm, I'm all set with that.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: But I'm saying, I'm saying for us, and this is
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: the point you're making too, we're agreeing here is that
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: like we, as messengers are, have to remember not to
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: be lazy about the message and just to shorthand it
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: as like, oh yeah, obviously Republicans are bad and crazy
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: and extreme.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Like, and if I were Joe.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: Biden, you know, like you do an event where he
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: can talk about how seniors are going to pay less
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: for prescription drugs for the first, because Medicare is going
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: to negotiate, going to be able to negotiate directly with,
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: with the drug companies for the first time. Meanwhile, Blake
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: Masters and a bunch of Republican candidates want to privatize
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: social security and Medicare completely, right?
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: There's a choice.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: You go to one of the states where, some of
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: the worst abortion bans are taking place. And you highlight
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: those bans, you highlight the candidates who are behind those bans,
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: you know, like, I think you have to, and I'm
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: sure the White House is going to do this and
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: other Democratic candidates to do this. But because we live
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: in this, this media environment, which is both noisy, and
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: both sidesy, you really got to be specific about the
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: examples of the extremism, and who the bad guys are here,
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: which are the MAGA politicians and Donald Trump himself. And
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: so I think that and that, That just takes a
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: lot more work in this media environment is the only issue,
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: as you know.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: One very pedantic point is this Reuters point you mentioned,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: spelled it out, make America great again, Republicans. Do not
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: do that, Democrats. Say MAGA, right? Do not repeat your
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: opponent's chosen branding. It'll be like Bud Light referring to
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Miller Lite as tastes great, less filling Miller Lite. Do
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: not do that, right?
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Just say MAGA.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: And again, it's telling voters and telling voters who may
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: have voted for Trump in 16 and then came over
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: to Biden, right? Or voters who were voting for the
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: first time were on the fence. Like these mega politicians,
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: they don't fucking care about you. Again, there's no one
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: who has more contempt for their own voters than Donald
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: Trump and his mega politician allies. They don't care for them.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: They don't help them. They don't pass anything to improve
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: their lives. They do not like them. And I think
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: you'd have to try to separate those voters from from
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: the politicians who claim to represent them but constantly screw
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: them over, just like they screw over the rest of
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: the country. All right, when we come back, we will
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: talk to the lieutenant governor of Pennsylvania, John Fetterman. Joining
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: us now is the Democrat running to become the next
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: senator from Pennsylvania.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: John Fetterman, welcome to the pod.
• 32:19
  Speaker 6: Thanks for having me.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: How are you feeling, and how's your recovery going?
• 32:24
  Speaker 9: I'm feeling really great, and that's the truth. I have
• 32:28
  Speaker 9: been feeling really great, as I've had for quite a while,
• 32:31
  Speaker 9: and living a normal life. I'm walking miles and miles
• 32:37
  Speaker 9: every day. I'm going to the grocery store. I'm picking
• 32:40
  Speaker 9: up my kids at their activities. I'm going out with
• 32:44
  Speaker 9: my wife. I'm driving everywhere. So the truth is, is
• 32:48
  Speaker 9: that 999 out of 1,000 people would have no idea
• 32:52
  Speaker 9: that I just had a stroke because I'm living a
• 32:55
  Speaker 9: perfectly normal life.
• 32:57
  Speaker 6: And now you have Dr.
• 32:59
  Speaker 9: Oz, out of being in his situation, acting in a
• 33:06
  Speaker 9: way that I don't believe any doctor should be, where
• 33:09
  Speaker 9: they're kind of trying to mock and make fun of
• 33:11
  Speaker 9: somebody that just had a stroke. And also, I think
• 33:14
  Speaker 9: that's a very, very risky bet here in Pennsylvania because
• 33:18
  Speaker 9: I go around and I ask people, it's like, hey,
• 33:20
  Speaker 9: who's had a major health challenge in their lives?
• 33:23
  Speaker 6: Or they have friends and loved ones that have one. Mostly,
• 33:27
  Speaker 6: most of the youngs.
• 33:28
  Speaker 9: End up coming up and I'm like, well, I hope
• 33:30
  Speaker 9: you don't have a doctor in your life mocking it
• 33:34
  Speaker 9: and making fun of your situation.
• 33:37
  Speaker 6: But I do.
• 33:37
  Speaker 9: I have a doctor in my life doing that. He
• 33:40
  Speaker 9: happens to be some weirdo celebrity.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, no one wants that kind of doctor in
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: their life. You said yesterday that you're looking forward to
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: debating Dr.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Oz.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: His campaign responded this morning and said, you're lying. You
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: won't say where and when. Do you want to settle
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: this here?
• 33:57
  Speaker 9: Yeah, it's just so funny. We've always said from the
• 34:02
  Speaker 9: beginning that we're going to have a debate. And it's
• 34:04
  Speaker 9: just a matter of working out through some of the
• 34:08
  Speaker 9: technical issues as well, too, because that's the truth. And
• 34:11
  Speaker 9: we've been very transparent about that the entire time, that
• 34:14
  Speaker 9: sometimes I may not miss something because I have some
• 34:18
  Speaker 9: auditory processing.
• 34:19
  Speaker 6: And that's the truth.
• 34:21
  Speaker 9: And when I'm able to make sure I know exactly
• 34:23
  Speaker 9: what's heard or what we're talking about, we're thrilled to
• 34:27
  Speaker 9: be able to talk about these issues. And I really
• 34:29
  Speaker 9: think there's a lot of issues he has that I
• 34:31
  Speaker 9: don't think he.
• 34:32
  Speaker 6: Wants to talk about, too. So, you know, we're going
• 34:34
  Speaker 6: to have a debate. We've already acknowledged that always.
• 34:38
  Speaker 9: And here after in the meltdown, after the crudite gate
• 34:43
  Speaker 9: kind of thing, he's been shrilling about, you know, debate, debate, debate,
• 34:47
  Speaker 9: even though we all know that we're going to have
• 34:49
  Speaker 9: a debate. And that's that's really the truth.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: Do you think it's fair you'll have something of a
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: home field advantage because the debate will take place in Pennsylvania?
• 34:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly.
• 35:00
  Speaker 9: I was going to say, here's a guy that has
• 35:03
  Speaker 9: 10 homes that never had a home ever in Pennsylvania
• 35:07
  Speaker 9: and now is just really a commuter.
• 35:10
  Speaker 6: He's a commuter. He's a commuter.
• 35:15
  Speaker 9: I'd love to see what his EPZ are, his records,
• 35:21
  Speaker 9: because I'm sure he's not spending a whole lot of
• 35:23
  Speaker 9: time at his real house here in Pennsylvania.
• 35:27
  Speaker 6: It's actually not under it's under construction.
• 35:31
  Speaker 9: But the truth is here, is that Dr. Oz has
• 35:36
  Speaker 9: a really, he's got a tough challenge right now too.
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: And that is to.
• 35:43
  Speaker 9: Bring MAGA into the fold. Because everywhere I go across Pennsylvania,
• 35:50
  Speaker 9: I run into a lot of Republicans who that you
• 35:53
  Speaker 9: come up to say hi and not say, hey, you know,
• 35:56
  Speaker 9: like I'm a Republican and I'm gonna vote for you
• 35:59
  Speaker 9: though because, you know, Dr. Oz, he's a fraud or
• 36:02
  Speaker 9: he's a weirdo. From here, he doesn't understand my life.
• 36:07
  Speaker 9: And I'm like, well, one, say thank you, but it's
• 36:10
  Speaker 9: really the truth. And there's two things here. There's supporters
• 36:15
  Speaker 9: and then there's voters here. And I have never genuinely,
• 36:18
  Speaker 9: and I'm not just trashing, I'm not talking trash. I
• 36:22
  Speaker 9: have not run into anyone that come up to me
• 36:24
  Speaker 9: and says, you know what, Dr. Oz is the best
• 36:26
  Speaker 9: candidate I've ever met in my life. I dream to
• 36:30
  Speaker 9: vote for him. You know, I haven't everywhere. So the
• 36:34
  Speaker 9: people that are going to vote for him are doing
• 36:36
  Speaker 9: it just because they have an R after his name.
• 36:38
  Speaker 9: You know, they're not anyone really believes that he's the
• 36:41
  Speaker 9: kind of person to to to represent Pennsylvania.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: So I have to ask, what was your reaction when
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: you first saw the Crudite video?
• 36:53
  Speaker 9: First of all, I was like, Hey dude, you know,
• 36:56
  Speaker 9: there is no place called Wagner's, you know? And, and
• 37:00
  Speaker 9: then the next thing was, I was like, what the
• 37:02
  Speaker 9: hell is a Crudite? Like I thought, honestly, it's like
• 37:05
  Speaker 9: a stroke, a stroke joke. I was like, did I,
• 37:07
  Speaker 9: did I hear that? And, and I had to ask somebody,
• 37:11
  Speaker 9: I was like, you know, what's that word? And someone
• 37:15
  Speaker 9: on the staff said, it's called a crudite and they
• 37:17
  Speaker 9: texted it.
• 37:18
  Speaker 6: And I was like, so then I, I Googled it
• 37:21
  Speaker 6: and I was like, I'm like, okay.
• 37:24
  Speaker 9: And I just laughed and I'm like, well, you know,
• 37:28
  Speaker 9: you learn everything in every election and crudite is one
• 37:31
  Speaker 9: of them. And what's really funny too, is, is that
• 37:35
  Speaker 9: I tell people it's a joke that I tell people
• 37:38
  Speaker 9: that sometimes after the stroke, I will mush two.
• 37:40
  Speaker 6: Words together that really don't exist. And I was like, Dr.
• 37:43
  Speaker 9: Oz did the same thing. It's like he heard of Wegmans,
• 37:47
  Speaker 9: and he's actually in a Redners. So he called it Wegners.
• 37:51
  Speaker 9: And as a result, too, he does the same thing.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: You know, the Oz campaign has been pretty transparent that
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: they're going to try to get their mojo back by
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: going hard negative on you, particularly on crime. They attacked
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: you for hiring two people who were wrongly convicted of murder.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Crime has been there. Republicans quote unquote Trump issue for
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: the last couple election cycles. How do you plan on
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: fighting back?
• 38:15
  Speaker 9: No, I you know, how we fight back from it
• 38:19
  Speaker 9: is really the our our record on crime here as
• 38:25
  Speaker 9: as mayor for four times here in Pennsylvania and in Braddock.
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: I stopped. I stopped.
• 38:34
  Speaker 9: Gun violence and deaths for five and a half years
• 38:36
  Speaker 9: during the time. And that had never been accomplished before
• 38:40
  Speaker 9: or since then after I became Lieutenant Governor. And that
• 38:44
  Speaker 9: was done by partnering with the police and partnering with
• 38:47
  Speaker 9: the community. And we developed something very successful. And I'm
• 38:52
  Speaker 9: actually proud of it. And that's something that Dr. Oz
• 38:55
  Speaker 9: and his Gucci loafers has any idea of what crime is,
• 38:59
  Speaker 9: except when you're talking about some of his associates or.
• 39:03
  Speaker 6: Those kind of people. Like here's a guy that is.
• 39:05
  Speaker 9: Pro-pardoning the insurrectionists from January 6th, but here's a guy
• 39:12
  Speaker 9: now that is bashing us for giving pardons for people
• 39:15
  Speaker 9: that have some stupid weed charge as well too. And
• 39:19
  Speaker 9: they are trying to scaremonger and they're lying. I mean,
• 39:22
  Speaker 9: that's really all they have. And the two people, Lee
• 39:25
  Speaker 9: and Dennis Horton, two people that roundly, roundly believe that
• 39:30
  Speaker 9: he's innocent. And these poor men lost almost three decades
• 39:34
  Speaker 9: of their life for.
• 39:36
  Speaker 6: Something that they have not done.
• 39:38
  Speaker 9: And as a result, I made making sure they getting
• 39:41
  Speaker 9: out was one of the most important things I've ever
• 39:44
  Speaker 9: done in my career.
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: And we got them out. And I wanted to hire them.
• 39:48
  Speaker 9: Because their story is important, because that's really the truth
• 39:52
  Speaker 9: about second chances. And that's the talk about our criminal
• 39:55
  Speaker 9: justice system, too. And now with those two men, the warden,
• 40:00
  Speaker 9: the warden said, they men have no being here. You know,
• 40:05
  Speaker 9: I hope they live next to me. I'm going to
• 40:08
  Speaker 9: take them out to dinner and treat them after they
• 40:11
  Speaker 9: get out. They said they are the two finest men
• 40:14
  Speaker 9: in the entire DOC right now. And everyone unanimously agree
• 40:20
  Speaker 9: to that.
• 40:21
  Speaker 6: And Dr.
• 40:22
  Speaker 9: Oz chose to kind of Horton, they tried to Horton
• 40:25
  Speaker 9: the Hortons. And I'm not, you know, it was never,
• 40:30
  Speaker 9: you know, I absolutely understood, you know, years ago that
• 40:34
  Speaker 9: that was going to be weaponized. And of course, Dr. Oz,
• 40:38
  Speaker 9: you know, I've chosen to do that. And he, of course,
• 40:40
  Speaker 9: I think he's gotten blowback on that as well, too.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Earlier this year, Dr. Oz ran a digital ad against
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: you with a bong. You have made legalization of marijuana
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: a central part of your- And.
• 41:07
  Speaker 9: But but you should be able to do it legally.
• 41:09
  Speaker 9: Adults should be able to do it as adults. And
• 41:13
  Speaker 9: that's a freedom thing as well, too. And if South Dakota,
• 41:16
  Speaker 9: if South Dakota can vote democratically to say, yes, let's
• 41:21
  Speaker 9: do it, then, you know, really how controversial really is
• 41:23
  Speaker 9: that for anybody, you know, in one of the reddest
• 41:27
  Speaker 9: state in the country is is is on board with it.
• 41:30
  Speaker 9: And again, I ran on that because I know it's
• 41:32
  Speaker 9: to be the truth. And I run that on for
• 41:35
  Speaker 9: a lot of different issues. One, to stop people having
• 41:38
  Speaker 9: their lives ruined by a charge. I'm also talking about
• 41:42
  Speaker 9: their revenue. I'd rather have it come to Pennsylvania Treasury
• 41:45
  Speaker 9: than the cartels. And I would want to make sure
• 41:48
  Speaker 9: that it's now a pure product, too, instead of God
• 41:53
  Speaker 9: knows where it is and where it comes from.
• 41:56
  Speaker 7: Dr.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: Oz was recently caught on a hot mic calling abortion murder.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: He's now trying to say that he doesn't want to
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: criminalize all abortions. What should what should voters know about Dr.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: Oz's position here?
• 42:07
  Speaker 6: Voters need to understand that Dr. Oz doesn't know what
• 42:10
  Speaker 6: he really thinks.
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: Dr.
• 42:12
  Speaker 9: Oz has changed a different position everywhere he is. And
• 42:16
  Speaker 9: but the truth is, is that Dr. Oz would vote
• 42:19
  Speaker 9: down and he is believes that the choice for women
• 42:23
  Speaker 9: belong with him, not not not women in Pennsylvania and
• 42:27
  Speaker 9: in the nation as well, too. And I have been
• 42:30
  Speaker 9: my entire career standing with and fighting for abortion rights.
• 42:34
  Speaker 9: It's a basic, it's a basic, very simple choice as
• 42:37
  Speaker 9: well too.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Dr.
• 42:39
  Speaker 9: Oz will fight to make sure that it's ending. And
• 42:43
  Speaker 9: I am going to spend my career fighting to make
• 42:46
  Speaker 9: sure that it is there because it was already a
• 42:50
  Speaker 9: settled issue for over 50 years. And it's absolutely bizarre
• 42:54
  Speaker 9: to me that a man is willing to say one
• 43:00
  Speaker 9: thing depending on what audience he's in front of, and
• 43:03
  Speaker 9: people don't realize that all he does is lie. And
• 43:06
  Speaker 9: how can you believe, truly, truly, and I'm not saying
• 43:09
  Speaker 9: this to be a partisan, how do you believe anything
• 43:12
  Speaker 9: out of any person that was willing to sell magic
• 43:16
  Speaker 9: diet pills on TV so much that he was fined
• 43:20
  Speaker 9: $ 5 million having to pay as a result as a
• 43:23
  Speaker 9: settlement too? Um, you know, that that's, you know, that,
• 43:26
  Speaker 9: you know, I make the joke about if anyone gets
• 43:28
  Speaker 9: the reference, Joe Isuzu, you know, where like, hi, he's
• 43:32
  Speaker 9: talking and everything he's saying is a lie. And it's like,
• 43:34
  Speaker 9: you know, it's the line. How do we know Dr.
• 43:36
  Speaker 9: Oz is lying about anything? It's like, well, he's talking.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: So I recently sat down with a focus group of
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: Biden voters in Pittsburgh, and they're disgusted with politics. They
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: don't follow it closely. They don't know if they're going
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: to vote in November. They seem to like you, they
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: seem to not love Dr. Oz, but they're still not
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: sure they were gonna vote. How do you reach voters
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: like that? And what do you say in this home stretch?
• 44:02
  Speaker 9: I'm just gonna try to reach out to them by
• 44:04
  Speaker 9: just being who I am and running on what I
• 44:06
  Speaker 9: really believe in and running on the right side of
• 44:09
  Speaker 9: all these issues too. And I've always want people to
• 44:13
  Speaker 9: understand that we understand the kind of lives that you have.
• 44:18
  Speaker 9: I understand what Pennsylvania really is about And I've spent
• 44:22
  Speaker 9: my career working here to make a community, especially one
• 44:26
  Speaker 9: like Braddock that is facing some of the most severe
• 44:28
  Speaker 9: challenges any community has here in Pennsylvania.
• 44:32
  Speaker 6: Versus if you genuinely believe to having.
• 44:35
  Speaker 9: An individual that has 10 gigantic mansions in different counties
• 44:41
  Speaker 9: all over, you're really not one in Pennsylvania, that doesn't
• 44:45
  Speaker 9: stand for anything and has made a career of lying
• 44:49
  Speaker 9: on television. I just believe it's self-evident that you have
• 44:54
  Speaker 9: somebody that is unfit to be in the Senate.
• 44:58
  Speaker 6: That's really a choice there.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: From afar, your campaign feels very different than the typical
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Democratic campaign. It feels more fun, more aggressive, more bold.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: How's that working? How are you making that happen? Is
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: that the right assessment of your campaign?
• 45:16
  Speaker 9: Well, I believe that we're running on the right side
• 45:19
  Speaker 9: of the truth, too. I mean, that's the truth, too. And,
• 45:22
  Speaker 9: you know, arguing things like the minimum wage or the
• 45:26
  Speaker 9: union way of life or, you know, health care, especially
• 45:30
  Speaker 9: my person situation, really personal issues.
• 45:33
  Speaker 6: That makes it easy. But we also want to be fun, too,
• 45:36
  Speaker 6: because often Dr. Oz gives us the gift of being Dr.
• 45:41
  Speaker 9: Oz to provide us with ample type of material to
• 45:46
  Speaker 9: work with, too. And we've never run like an oppo
• 45:49
  Speaker 9: kind of campaign.
• 45:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 45:53
  Speaker 9: It's just like pointing out that Dr. Oz lives in
• 45:57
  Speaker 9: a gigantic mansion in New Jersey that he lives in.
• 46:00
  Speaker 9: It wasn't me saying that. That was People magazine that
• 46:04
  Speaker 9: had the, come on in. And I didn't film him
• 46:10
  Speaker 9: undercover watching him go into a grocery store talking about
• 46:14
  Speaker 9: crudités and wagers. He actually, their team slapped that down
• 46:19
  Speaker 9: and was like, you know what, Dr.
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: Oz, That's good. Let's send that one out. It's all material.
• 46:27
  Speaker 9: And we've never run a nasty or mean kind of campaign.
• 46:32
  Speaker 9: We've only talked about the truth. And, you know, if
• 46:36
  Speaker 9: you ever wonder, what was Dr. Oz's position on incest?
• 46:39
  Speaker 9: You know, I didn't make up lies about that.
• 46:42
  Speaker 6: It's like, oh, wait, it turns out there is.
• 46:46
  Speaker 9: An interview with him pointing out that incest, okay, okay,
• 46:50
  Speaker 9: pump the brakes on the.
• 46:52
  Speaker 6: First cousins, but everything else, you know, incest, you know.
• 46:58
  Speaker 6: I can't make it up.
• 46:59
  Speaker 9: But pointing out who he is and what his record
• 47:03
  Speaker 9: is is not mean, and it's not.
• 47:07
  Speaker 6: Fear-mongering.
• 47:08
  Speaker 9: The way he has chosen to attack me or even very,
• 47:11
  Speaker 9: very personally about my health. It's really just talking about,
• 47:16
  Speaker 9: you know, who he really is about.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Finally, and least importantly, the NFL season starts tonight. As
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: I understand it, you're a huge Steelers fan. I think
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: you once made Jake Tapper wear an Eagles mask. So
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: two questions. How are you feeling about the Steelers? But also,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: in order to win, if I do my electoral math correctly,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: you need a lot of Eagles voters to turn out
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: for you. So are you getting some sort of peace offering?
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: How are you going to square the circle there?
• 47:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah, no, I've always.
• 47:44
  Speaker 6: I've always run on the truth here in Pennsylvania. One,
• 47:48
  Speaker 6: Sheets is better than Wawa.
• 47:50
  Speaker 9: And I also know that the Steelers is the best team.
• 47:55
  Speaker 9: And I think voters really understand the truth, too. And
• 48:02
  Speaker 9: that's the truth here. These are very important issues here,
• 48:05
  Speaker 9: especially in western Pennsylvania. uh, they, uh, you know, the,
• 48:09
  Speaker 9: the Steelers, Dr. Odd doesn't even understand any of them.
• 48:12
  Speaker 9: I can't even imagine what he would come down on
• 48:14
  Speaker 9: other than saying, I sure hope the, the team wins, uh, whatever.
• 48:21
  Speaker 9: He just doesn't have any idea what they're talking about.
• 48:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: I'm sure he roots for the Steagals.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:27
  Speaker 9: The Steagals or, or, uh, but, but that that's, that's
• 48:34
  Speaker 9: the truth.
• 48:34
  Speaker 6: And, When you think about Pennsylvania, you think about, you.
• 48:37
  Speaker 9: Know, I mean, Friday night lights, you know, that is
• 48:41
  Speaker 9: absolutely sacred here in Pennsylvania. I don't think a single person,
• 48:45
  Speaker 9: you know, in the bleachers watching, you know, high school
• 48:49
  Speaker 9: football here in Pennsylvania is thinking about, I really think Dr.
• 48:53
  Speaker 9: Oz really could relate to the kind of life and
• 48:55
  Speaker 9: things that mean to me. And that's the kind of
• 48:58
  Speaker 9: campaign that we're going to continue to run for the
• 49:00
  Speaker 9: next 60 days is talking about the truth and talking
• 49:03
  Speaker 9: about running on our record, especially like crime, especially where
• 49:07
  Speaker 9: he believes that he can weaponize my record and lie
• 49:12
  Speaker 9: about that. But I feel really good. And that's the
• 49:14
  Speaker 9: kind of campaign we're going to continue to run.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: Well, that is good to hear. It was good to
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: have you here. Thank you so much for the time.
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: We appreciate it.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: John Fetterman, take care.
• 49:23
  Speaker 6: No, no, I appreciate all of you. Thank you. Big,
• 49:26
  Speaker 6: big fans.
• 49:27
  Speaker 9: And thank you for the work that you all do too.
• 49:29
  Speaker 9: And hopefully we'll, we'll see you more again. And thanks
• 49:32
  Speaker 9: again for having me.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: Our producers are Olivia Martinez and Hayley Muse. It's mixed
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: sound engineer the show. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerard,
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: production support. And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford,
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: Milo Kim, and Amelia Montooth. Our episodes are uploaded as
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: videos at youtube.com slash crookedmedia.