Latest / Christian Mix 106 On Demand / Upright Christian Parenting - Treehouse Storytelle... - How to Pray for a Prodigal Child (Without Losing Hope) | Debra McNinch

Transcript

Upright Christian Parenting - Treehouse Storytelle... - How to Pray for a Prodigal Child (Without Losing Hope) | Debra McNinch · Christian Mix 106 On Demand

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Hey friends, welcome to the Upright Christian Parenting Podcast,
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season four, part of the Treehouse Storyteller family, and I'm your host, Hannah Peru.
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This is your place for upright parenting in today's sideways culture.
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We don't tiptoe around hard truths around here. We tackle cultural issues head
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on, build a bold biblical worldview, and equip you to lead your flock with courage.
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Our kids are being discipled by something, so let's make sure it's us.
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Grab your coffee, lace up your shoes, and let's raise kingdom arrows.
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Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Upright Christian Parenting.
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I have today Debra McNinch. She is the founder of Battle Cry Moms and the author
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of The Battle Cry, Love Goes to War.
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Through writing, speaking, and prayer-focused ministry, she encourages parents
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to trust God in the hardest seasons of parenting.
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Oh man, we all know those hard seasons. McNinch is dedicated to reminding families
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that no child is beyond God's love or redemption. I love the hope there.
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Debra, welcome to the Treehouse with us.
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Oh, thank you so much. I am so excited to be here and just dig in with you today.
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I know. I am super excited. We were supposed to maybe record this at NRB in
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person, which I hope I can still see you there.
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But man, this is a topic that I just feel like this deserves some time,
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some, you know, let's slow down and really dig in.
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And that NRB pace sometimes does not do justice those deeper topics.
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So I really appreciate you chatting with me today.
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Could you kind of give our listeners and myself included, just kind of more
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of a background of exactly what it is that you do in your ministry.
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Yes. And so my ministry started kind of in a crazy way.
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I, one, I never planned on being in ministry. I never planned on speaking and
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writing. Those were things that were never kind of in my vocabulary to do.
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I raised three kids. They were all adults.
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We joke all the time that we were rock stars. We thought we were the best parents that ever lived.
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You know, we didn't have any problems with the kids. And I was like,
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man, this parenting thing, it's so easy. Like, we just did so great.
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I had no idea that parenting really doesn't stop when they get out of high school.
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And it's sometimes the adult years that are really the most challenging and hard.
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And that was just something I was not personally prepared for.
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And so about eight years ago, out of the blue, I got a phone call from one of
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my kids, and he simply said, Mom, I'm transgender.
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And at the time, you know, you have to think about eight, almost nine years
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ago, that was still kind of the beginning of the movement that we see today.
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And so I really didn't have a lot of knowledge at that time,
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like even what that meant. I remember saying, what does that even mean?
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I really didn't even really know.
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But I did know deep down that my life was getting ready to change.
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And that my family was getting ready to change, and all of my hopes and dreams,
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and the things that I had planned on, I knew that they were now not going to
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play out like I had always dreamed and prayed and hoped.
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And, you know, what was left, I like to just say and tell people,
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I was kind of sitting on this imaginary front porch
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in my Malibu Barbie dream house, and I was just watching the ocean,
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ready for like what the next thing was going to be, and that was going to be
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grandkids and marriages and trips around the world and big Christmas dinners
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and, you know, all of this stuff that I thought I was going to get like everybody else seems to get.
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But what happened was out in that imaginary ocean, there was a tsunami wave.
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Getting ready to come in and just knock my house off the foundation.
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And I had to decide right then and right there, is my house built on the rock
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of Jesus Christ or is it on shifting sand?
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And where am I going to go with this information? And what am I going to do?
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And how is it going to change me?
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And that is the beginning of how Battle Cry started. I started it as a prayer
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movement to just find a way out of the pain.
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I promised myself at the very beginning, if I could get off the bathroom floor
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from crying every single day, if I could get myself out of bed from crying every
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single day, I promised myself that I would never forget.
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God is a God of miracles, and there is nothing too hard for Him.
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And I promised myself I would talk about this for other moms,
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because I knew there were other
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people going through this, even though I wasn't personally hearing it.
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I knew there were other moms like me, moms that their hopes and their dreams
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had fallen aside and that they needed support. And then I promised I would start
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a support group for moms that had prodigal children. And that was the beginning of Battle Cry.
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Wow. Wow. Thank you for being so vulnerable with this story.
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I mean, it really, really is so impactful, I'm sure, to so many people. So at what point...
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Between making those promises and making the next step to do the thing,
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where did that then connect to where you are now and the book?
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Where does the book fit in that you have written?
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And then kind of tell that story of a little bit about your journey through,
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you know, deciding to, okay, here we have a support group and really devoted
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to praying, which is so, like, that's so incredibly important.
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And now where does the book fit into that part of the story?
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So my story actually starts about 20 years ago.
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And one night, I, you know, I grew up a good little Southern Baptist girl.
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And so prophetic dreams and that kind of stuff just was not on my bingo card, I like to say.
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And so one night, about 20 years ago, I started having kind of some dreams.
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And at first I thought, well, those are just kind of weird. You know,
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did I eat pizza? What is the story with that? But one night I saw myself standing
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on a stage talking about a book I had written.
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And I never held a soul. I carried that information for about 20 years just kind of in my heart.
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I would go places, and people would—strangers would come up to me and say,
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God told me to tell you you're going to write a book.
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And so in my kind of like crazy little mind, I assumed it was going to be a
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book. Again, I was that perfect mom that raised these perfect little children,
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and so I just assumed I was going to write this great parenting how-to book.
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And little did I know, right after that phone call, I hung up the phone that
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day, and one of the very, very first thoughts I had was, are you kidding me?
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Like, it all just came rushing back.
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And so I knew that God was calling me to talk about this. And one of the first
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things He spoke to me, He said, write down the things I'm telling you every single day.
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You're going to be sharing them with others. And so I started a journal right
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there on that spot, that very, very moment I hung up the phone.
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I started writing every thought I had down.
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And it took a couple of years. It took several years of me finding my voice
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because I didn't want to start speaking about something that I couldn't articulate.
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And I never wanted to speak from my pain. I wanted to speak from purpose.
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And I wanted to be able to point people to the Lord.
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And I wanted to make sure I was standing on biblical values and never leading anybody astray.
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And so it took a couple of years to really find my footing with that.
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But back in about 2020, some opportunities came up and I wrote this book and
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it came out about a year ago.
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And it has just helped so many people like me that just assume that nobody knows,
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nobody cares about this pain because nobody's talking about this.
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You know, we like to dedicate our babies in church, you know,
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with Jeremiah 29, 11 and say they're going to have a hope and a future.
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But then when they don't have this hope and a future like we planned,
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you know, it's like, well, what happened? You know, what happened?
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Does God love me? Does He hate my kid?
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You know, what did I do wrong? And so it brought up all of these questions.
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And now I realize, you know, we can't promise things like Jeremiah 29,
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11 without talking about 70 years of captivity at the same time,
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because our hope and our future for our families is coming.
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But right now we're in some middle moments that are really, really hard.
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And that is how Battle Cry came. I knew it was time to start talking about it to help other parents.
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Wow. That's so amazing. I love, I love the wisdom that you came to the table
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with. I want to come from a place of purpose and not of pain.
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I think that's, that's so amazing because so many of us, I mean,
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it would be, it's our flesh, right?
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Our flesh would talk out of the pain and you operating out of the spirit realm
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instead of saying, okay, God, where's the purpose in this that you have?
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And we know that he makes all things for good, uh, who are called according
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to his purpose, not everything for good, but for those who love him and are
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called according to his purpose.
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And, you know, there, there's such a, just a wisdom there and what you just
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said. And I really appreciate that.
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So tell us a little bit about, um, you know, really a little bit more about
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the book, um, kind of go into, um.
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You know, do you touch on this community piece of prayer and,
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uh, connecting with, with other parents that are in a position such as yourself,
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or, you know, really where, where is, um, the book journey and parents?
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You know, the book, I always like to say, it's not about my child,
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and it's not about his decision, because that's his story to tell.
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The book comes from what the Lord did in me. And so it really,
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every different chapter, it's about something I had to wrestle with,
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something I had to overcome in order to get to where I am today.
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And so the whole book, really, the first portion of the book is about just different
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scenarios that I went through. I had to overcome shame, and I had to overcome
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jealousy. I became very jealous. I didn't even know that was something my heart could hold.
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And all of the sudden, you know, years after this announcement,
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you know, it seemed like all of my friends were becoming grandparents.
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They were all having these big weddings and grandbabies. And I realized that's not going to be.
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The lot that I'm going to get. And that is not how my life is going to turn out.
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And I became very jealous kind of of seeing everybody else get all of these wonderful things.
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And I started, you know, well, I know what their family did.
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They did, you know, and we went to church. And, you know, it was just this whole
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like inner turmoil all the time of trying to figure out how can God be in like
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somebody's happiness, but be in my pain at the same time.
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And so each chapter of the book just goes through some different emotion that
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I've had or some question that has come up about just the scenario that I'm
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in and what God says about it.
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But then the best part of the book really is the second portion,
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and that is the battle plan.
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And I go through a five-step battle plan that the Lord gave me of praying for our prodigals.
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And it's very simple. They're very easy steps. It's things people probably are already doing.
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But together, it's a very powerful plan.
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And if you stick to it, and if you stay in the Word and start declaring God's
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promises over your family, I promise your eyes will go back to Him and not your problems.
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I love that. I love that. What tangibly does that look like for you?
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I'm well aware when you say declaring God's promises over your family.
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But can you explain that to the audience? What does that look like tangibly for you?
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For me personally, you know, first, the first step of the plan is worship.
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In our group, with my moms, we worship. And why do we worship?
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Because, you know, worship is easy when all is going great. When you have a
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great life and you have great kids and you're doing all the things,
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it's all unicorns and rainbows everywhere you go.
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You know, it's easy to go to church and raise your hands and worship.
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But, you know, my favorite story, one of them in the New Testament,
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is the widow's mite and how when she was giving to the Lord,
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you know, she gave everything she had. all these other people were giving offerings as well.
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But the Lord noticed hers because she gave everything that she had,
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because she gave out of her poverty.
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And when you worship, that's where we're coming from today.
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I'm worshiping out of my hurt, out of my pain, out of my poverty,
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but I'm still giving it all to the Lord because He is worthy to be worshiped.
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And so that's step one. Step two is the Word.
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We declare the Word over our children. Find a verse, any verse,
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something that speaks to you, your situation, your family, and start declaring
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that word every single day. Write it everywhere. Put it in your car.
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Write it on your bathroom mirror. Put it in your shoe. I don't know,
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wherever you can. If you have access to your children, you know,
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put it on an index card and put it under their mattress.
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You know, put it in their shoe. You know, it's all about declaring the word
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every single day. So find a verse. Stand on that verse.
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The third step is prayer. Start a list of, you know, five, ten things that you
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can pray every single day.
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You know, because there's going to be days, I know for me even,
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I'm like, I'm out of words. I'm out of things to pray.
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Sometimes all I can say is, you know, fix it, Jesus. That's all that comes out.
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So start a list of things to pray every single day and start declaring those
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and praying over your family.
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The fourth step is declare God's promises. Find five promises,
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five promises of God in the Bible and start declaring those every single day
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because His promises are yes and amen.
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You cannot go wrong praying God's word back to Him. And the fifth step is community.
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I call them mat carriers.
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You have to find people that are going to tear the roof off and lower your child
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before the Lord with you every single day.
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Find your people find your mat carriers you can't do this alone satan is a liar
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if you're listening to this and he has whispered in your ear you are alone and you can't tell anybody
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what you're going through that is a lie from the pit of hell tell somebody get
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people in on your journey
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and let's fight this battle together and so that's how tangibly it looks like
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in my life every single day.
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Oh, my goodness. If no one wants to run out and buy your book and read it after
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what you just said, that was incredible.
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I love all of these. The index card, I can see the fruit in my own life because my mother did that.
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And I didn't think anything about it when I was a teenager. but I would wake
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up often, you know, groggy, tired from staying up too late the night before doing who knows what.
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And I'd wake up to a fresh index card on my bathroom sink.
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And I don't know when, I mean, she was like, she was like an elf.
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I don't know when she managed to slip that in there, but she did. Moms are good like that.
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Yes. Yes. And so I just, I, I love that. And that, And that just speaks to me
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so strongly because I'm like, man, it's those darn little index cards that get you every time.
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Seriously, I love it. You know, another step you can do if you don't see your
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child or your child lives away.
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I actually have a picture of my children, of my child.
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And I laminated it and then I put it inside a little plastic pouch.
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And I have his verse and all of my kids' verses written on the back of this
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picture. And I anoint that picture with oil every day.
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I'm like, I'm just anointing them. I'm just, I know the Holy Spirit can figure
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it out even though he's not here, but I anoint his head with oil every single
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day symbolically to remind Satan that that boy belongs to God and not you.
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I love that. I love that so much. I always think of, you know,
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extending a hand or laying hands on someone when you're a thousand miles away
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and going, it doesn't matter to God. He's omnipresent.
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My hand is stuck over here in Colorado, but you're way over there.
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And that's okay because God's over there too. And he can break. That's right.
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Um, so I love, I love that. I love the idea of, you know, really what you're
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talking about with worship was this idea of sacrificial worship.
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It's something that the Lord's been teaching me a little bit about lately.
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And so that just really stuck out too, of like, you are worshiping out of a
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place where you sometimes in our pain, we have almost nothing to give like that.
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Like the woman that you're talking about that gave out of poverty.
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She had nothing really left to give, But because she gave out of that place
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of sacrifice, it was really met. And we have a God that multiplies on our behalf.
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And I just I love the sacrificial worship idea. And really, really in the in
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the depths of the dark valleys, we have to just give him,
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even what we don't even think we know we have. And yet he still meets us there.
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I just love that. Oh, my word. And the idea of Matt Carriers,
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I just, I think that is so amazing.
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Yes, let's find the people that will rip the roof off of the house and lower
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us down. I mean, that is beautiful.
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Amen. You know, God is good. And you have to get to where God can use you.
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I understand the pain, and I understand being broken on the bathroom floor,
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because I've been there too.
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But God is calling you out right now, Mama, to get off that floor and to be
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a light to this dark world. And so I pray every day that somebody will encounter
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my child wherever he is at and point him back to the Lord.
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And you might be the answer to some mama's prayer. And so if I'm so beaten down,
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I can't get out of the house, I can't go to the store, there might be somebody
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at the store that I need to pour into.
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Then I need to speak prophetically over. And so we have to ready ourselves.
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You know, our calling is just starting. It may not look like what you anticipated,
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but I promise you, you are the answer for some mama's prayer.
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So go out and be the answer. Go out and shine a light in this dark world.
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I love that. I love that so much.
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So that was, you know, really so much of my next question, I feel like.
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But what other words of hope do you have to extend to other mamas?
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You know, our motto in my group is no one fights alone. And so I think the hope
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we have is in Jesus. And it's in those moments that you have people coming along beside you.
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You know, I love the story in the Old Testament of Moses and Aaron and Hur.
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And Moses would raise his arms and they would win the battle,
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but he would get tired and his arms would go down and they would start to lose.
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And two friends came along beside him and raised his arms up to end this battle so they would win.
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And so the hope I have is that you are not alone. You are not alone.
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I'm going to say it again. You are not alone. That is a lie from the pit of hell.
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There are other people on this journey that want to come along beside you and
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fight this battle with you.
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But remember, we are not fighting for a victory because we have the victory
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already in Jesus. We are fighting.
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Just with the Lord, and He is fighting our battles. And we have to stand,
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though. We have to stand and ready ourselves for this battle.
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And if I could just encourage anyone, I would just remind them that they are
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not alone. And to keep your eyes straight ahead. Don't look to the left.
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Don't look to the right. Don't look at the things you're seeing.
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Start looking at your situation and your child.
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Let God see them. Look at their heart, not their outside. Don't worry about
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the outside, look at their heart and just keep, you know, just keep staying
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with the Lord and asking Him every day to renew your thoughts,
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to renew your heart toward your child.
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And it's hard. Sometimes you see some things that you just shake your head and
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like, I don't even know what to say to that.
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But I have to remember to look past the outside, past the things I don't like.
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Because in my life, in my sin, because I have sin, just like everybody does,
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God looks past that and sees my heart, you know, and gives me this opportunity
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every day to come before Him clean and my sins forgiven.
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And we have to offer that to everybody else as well.
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So don't get stuck on the things that you see going on on the outside.
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Don't let everything stop there, because the things you see are confusing and
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hard, and you think God can't fix that, because that's a lie.
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He can fix it, and He will fix it, and our kids are coming home.
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Amen. That's wonderful. That's so wonderful.
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So do you have on that note, do you have a prodigal return story that you'd like to share offhand?
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Yes, you know, I wish I could come on here and share, like I've written a sequel
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to the book I had written and my story has changed, but we're still in the middle
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moments right now of my story.
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But one thing with my mom's group, we have 1600 moms and it grows every single
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day with moms that have prodigal children in all kinds of different situations from LGBTQ,
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to addiction to estrangement to simply I don't believe.
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And so we have all kinds of prodigal situations in our group,
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but we celebrate victories in our group, big and small.
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And just last week, we had a couple of victories. One mom messaged me and said
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her son had been living a gay lifestyle for decades, many, many years, and he came back.
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He dedicated his life to the Lord, and he's no longer practicing the lifestyle
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that he had been practicing before. And so we give God all the praise and glory
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and honor for that. We know that He is working on all of our kids.
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He's not a respecter of persons. If He did it for one, He'll do it for another.
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And then another story just last week, we had another mom that her child had
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quit going to church with her.
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And the night before, she still asks every week, hey, do you want to go to church?
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And this particular Sunday, the girl said, yes, I'll go with you tomorrow.
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And during the service, at the end, they did an altar call. And the girl had
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asked her mom, are you going up for prayer? And mom said, no,
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I wasn't planning on going up.
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And the girl said, well, I was going to go up with you if you were going.
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So, of course, then it's like, let's run down that aisle as fast as we can get
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down there. And she said it was just a beautiful, someone just prayed and prophesied over this girl.
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And so I guess, you know, we have to just be open and looking.
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It may not be this big, like, victory that you think you're going to get,
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but I promise you every single day there's something to celebrate,
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big or small, because God is working and we believe that He is bringing them all home.
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I love that. I love that so much. So tell me a little bit more about the community.
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You said 1600 and growing.
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What does that look like? How does that look? How does that look?
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Yeah, so it's a private community. I built my own network to have a private
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space for any mom that wants to join.
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And so if you go to the website, which is battlecrymoms.com,
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you're going to see a splash screen and there's going to be five questions that you need to answer.
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And then based on how you answer those, I'm the one that reads them and I approve
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you to get in. And then when you do get in the community, there's a main page.
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Kind of think about like a Facebook page.
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Everything that everybody posts. And what we post is we post sermons.
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We post worship songs. We post Bible verses.
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We just post whatever encourages somebody else. And then the beauty,
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though, of the community is we have subgroups.
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And so if you have an LGBT kid, there's a group for you. If you have a transgender
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kid, there's a group for you. If you have estrangement issues,
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there's a group for you. And so whatever your situation is, you're going to find.
26:22
Yes, and so the beauty of Battle Cry Moms is there's a community and there's a space for everyone.
26:28
So whatever your situation, if you have a transgender child, an LGBT.
26:33
Child, an estrangement or addiction, or simply don't believe,
26:37
there's going to be a private group for you to join and to be able to talk with
26:43
other moms going through the same thing that you're going through.
26:46
And it's just a beautiful space. You know, when I started Battle Cry Moms,
26:50
it'll be five years in May that we have been going.
26:53
I remember thinking, well, this is gonna be depressing. All these moms with
26:57
these sad stories just hanging around together, but it is not.
27:00
It is the most hope-filled, joy-filled group of women you will ever meet that
27:05
just believe the word of God.
27:06
We believe that it's true and we believe that God is working in every single
27:10
situation and scenario and that somehow, someway, someday, our prayers are going
27:15
to be answered. And so Battle Cry Moms is an amazing space.
27:19
We do Bible study together. We do live prayer once a week.
27:23
On Monday nights, we get on Zoom and pray together.
27:26
We do book studies. We just do all kinds of things. We just do life together.
27:31
Last year, we had our first in-person meeting, and moms came from all over the U.S.
27:36
To meet here in Indiana for a prayer event, for a two-day prayer event.
27:40
And so it is more than just this little group. It is life. It is life-giving.
27:45
And these are women that want to sit with you and hear your story and believe
27:50
with you for your family. So please join us. We would love to have you.
27:54
Okay. I just unwrapped a whole nother layer because you said Indiana.
27:57
So that is my hometown. Did you know that? I did not.
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Yeah. I'm from Indiana. That's where I live now. I'm not from here.
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I'm from Kansas, but I live in Indiana.
28:08
So I am from Granger, Indiana, up north, close to Notre Dame South Bend. How about yourself?
28:14
We live right by Terre Haute in this little town called Brazil.
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Yes. Okay. That's awesome. There we go. Yes.
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We are in our spectrums, but we got the whole place covered.
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That's right. It's awesome. It's a great place. We love it here.
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We've lived here about six years, and we really like Indiana. It's a great place.
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Most of our family is still in Indiana, so we come back there a lot.
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I love it. Very awesome. So I had to clarify that one. I'm like, wait, hold on.
28:44
Where are you? That's where we're at.
28:48
So when prayers feel unanswered, you know, really, and nothing seems like it's
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changing, and you feel like,
28:57
you know, just that hope starts to feel like it's hanging on by a thread.
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And how can parents at this point really continue to trust God?
29:07
I can see that you are still in the middle of this battle, and you have just
29:14
the strength of the Lord just pouring out of you. I can see it so clearly.
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So what do you encourage parents with when they just feel like,
29:24
okay, this is just never going to—it's never going to happen?
29:28
Right. You know, it's hard to pray these prayers and every day to stay in belief
29:34
that they are being heard, because when you don't see things,
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you know, with your eyes, we live in a society that everything's instant.
29:40
You know, if I want to look something up, I can look it up in two seconds.
29:44
You know, it can be on my phone. If I want to order something,
29:47
it'll show up later today.
29:48
And so we live in this instant society. But unfortunately, you know,
29:52
God's whole marketplace isn't like that. We pray prayers, and we don't get to
29:59
say, I need 48-hour shipping.
30:01
You know, I wish we could, but we don't get to. And so his timetable may not be our timetable.
30:09
It may be 50 years from now. It may be 20 years from now. But,
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you know, if you think about, I think about the story of Elisha in 2 Kings and
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his servant when they were in this battle. I love the Old Testament.
30:22
Those stories are amazing. Everything is so relative to everything we're going through.
30:26
But I loved that his servant was kind of panicking one day and was like,
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the army, we are outnumbered. What are we going to do?
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And Elisha prayed that God would just remove the scales from his eyes and let
30:37
him see behind the veil for just a moment the angel armies that are fighting on your behalf.
30:42
And that's my prayer today, that God would just remind you that there is angel
30:47
armies that outnumber Satan and his demons that are fighting for your family.
30:52
So even though you do not see it with your own eyes on the schedule you wish
30:57
to see it, God knows the beginning, and He knew the end, and He knows every minute in between.
31:03
And you have to stay in faith. Don't quit.
31:06
Don't stop just short of the goal. Stay in faith and trust God in His plan.
31:12
Trust that He knows what He's doing and that His timetable is perfect for accomplishing
31:17
what He is going to accomplish in your story. And I know it's hard.
31:21
I get it. I wish today—I pray every day that today is the day of salvation.
31:26
And I wake up believing it is every day. But you know what? If it's not today,
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I know God's got it. And one day, one day, somehow it is all going to work out
31:35
and I'm going to see it. And I pray that I see the goodness of the Lord in the
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land of the living, just like it says.
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And if I don't, if I'm in heaven, that's the beauty of your prayer right now.
31:47
Your prayers are going up to heaven and they're in a bowl and they are never
31:50
going to leave. They're going to come up before the Lord as a beautiful fragrance.
31:53
And so the prayers that you're praying, they're going to just keep circling
31:57
back and they are never going to go away.
31:59
So stay in faith, Mama. Your prayers are heard and they will be answered in God's perfect timing.
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Oh, my goodness. I love that. So speaking of angel armies and battling an army,
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let's talk about the armor of God. What does it look like practically to put
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the armor of God on when praying for our prodigal child?
32:21
You know, I love that story in the Bible. You know, we read about it.
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It says to do all of these things. You know, put on the helmet of salvation
32:28
and the breastplate of righteousness and ready your feet for war and to do all of these things.
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But if you read kind of just a little bit longer, and it says then to stand,
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you do all these things and stand. And then there's a comma and it says, but stand.
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And if you really dig into that, you know, the first part of that verse,
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God is telling you to ready yourself for battle.
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You get yourself where you need to be. You be in the Word. You make sure you're
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doing what you need to be doing and put on your armor every day.
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But then you stand. The first has action to it. The first stand is for action.
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That second stand, that's in faith.
33:03
You stand in faith knowing that God is fighting this battle and that He will
33:08
win this war. And so that's what it looks like to put on the armor every day.
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You ready yourself, but then you stand in faith and let God fight your battle.
33:17
I love that. I love that. That's so awesome. Oh my goodness.
33:22
Wow. I have been so encouraged by you. This has been amazing to talk to you, Debra. Um, is there.
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Is there anything that you want to, um,
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You know, really encourage parents on the front end because you've been,
33:40
you're in the middle, you've seen the worst, you know what the worst can look like.
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Is there anything on the preventative side, on the front end?
33:52
Because clearly, you know, you did everything right.
33:56
Right. You're an incredible mom. Mom, is there anything looking back that you
34:00
have learned now going, hmm, maybe I could have done this different and not
34:06
pointing to you doing anything wrong, but had I had,
34:10
the foresight of this, maybe it would have looked like this.
34:14
100% I can answer that. You know, we sometimes think of our parenting,
34:20
you know, it's like we have a slot machine and we just keep putting the quarters in.
34:23
You know, oh, I went to church. I'm putting a quarter in. Oh,
34:25
we prayed before dinner. or oh, you know, we read the Bible and we somehow think
34:29
that we're gonna like pull this lever down and we're gonna get this jackpot.
34:33
But what I now know on the other side of all of this is that there is an enemy.
34:39
There's an enemy after your family. And if you would have told me that 20 years
34:43
ago, I would have been like, okay.
34:46
I don't think I realized exactly what that meant or that there was an enemy after my family.
34:51
And I thought my little religious things that I were doing was going to be enough, but it's not.
34:57
And so if you're young, if you have a young family now and you're listening
35:00
to this and you're thinking, what can I do?
35:03
Here's one thing that I would do.
35:06
If I could go back, I would do different. I wouldn't take my kids to church.
35:09
I would take them to Jesus. And I say that kind of jokingly.
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Would I still go to church? Yes, I would.
35:15
But I would not put my hope in a system.
35:18
I would put my hope in a Savior, and I would introduce Him to the Holy Spirit.
35:22
I would make sure that my children saw miracles and signs and wonders.
35:26
I would make sure that it became personal to them, that their eyes had been
35:30
enlightened, and that they had seen the goodness of the Lord in the things that He was doing.
35:36
And if I could go back, those are the things I would do different.
35:39
I wouldn't just say, get in the car, we're going to church on a Sunday morning
35:42
or bow your head, we're going to pray before we eat.
35:45
I would make it more personal and I would make sure that they understood how
35:50
much they are loved by a Savior and that there is nothing that Satan can whisper
35:55
in their ear, that's all a lie.
35:57
I wish I would have told them about the lies and the tactics of the enemy.
36:01
I wish I would have spent more time confronting lies. I had no idea.
36:06
You know, I know in our situation, this is something I now know that my child
36:11
had been thinking about for many, many years. And I had no.
36:15
No idea. And so I wish also that I would have had better communication,
36:22
a better line of just open communication that he felt maybe he could have come to me
36:28
and told us, you know, this lie that he was hearing and that he was believing because I had no idea.
36:35
And I know that it may not have changed anything in the end,
36:39
but I know he suffered a long time in silence by himself.
36:43
And that makes me really sad that I didn't offer, you know, a safe environment
36:50
for him to talk openly about these things. And I know today we talk about these
36:54
things a little bit more maybe than we did, you know, 15 years ago.
36:58
This is more part of everyday language today.
37:01
But just reminding our kids, you know, whose they are and why the Word is true,
37:07
why it's true and what Satan does to tell us it's not true.
37:11
And so those are some things that I would do differently.
37:14
Wow, that's really good. Really, what I heard you saying, I mean,
37:19
the identity piece is so critical.
37:23
Power of God, really seeing God's works, you said, seeing miracles,
37:28
seeing signs and wonders.
37:30
And I think if there's anyone to believe that a God is a God of miracles,
37:35
it is our childlike wonder.
37:37
It's our childlike faith that really can believe that.
37:41
And I think oftentimes times, you know, in churchy settings,
37:48
we don't really expose our kids fully to that.
37:51
We think it's too much or too supernatural or too out there.
37:55
And I just, I don't agree.
37:58
And so I love that.
38:00
And then, you know, the authority of scripture and really, you know,
38:05
taking that time to prove to our children the authority of God's word is so valuable.
38:11
And you mentioned the lies that were coming that you didn't even realize were there.
38:17
I call those the fiery darts and really being able to notice those fiery darts that are coming at us.
38:25
And we have to teach our children, but we also, that is something we have to
38:28
teach ourselves every single day.
38:30
There's fiery darts coming at us every single day. And so that is such a critical
38:36
thing to living this life well in the faith is knowing how to identify those
38:40
fiery darts and what is of the Lord and what is not.
38:45
And knowing Him,
38:47
as best, as close as we can will help us to know what counterfeit is.
38:53
And so I just love that. Debra, this has just been such a joy to listen to you,
39:00
to be encouraged by you, to walk this out with you.
39:04
Oh my goodness. I just, I join your whole community.
39:10
Of mamas that But I just pray over them right now in Jesus' name that there
39:16
is healing and that there is just,
39:20
amazing miracles happening right now that Jesus is just showing up in these people's lives.
39:27
And I just love the work that you're doing. It is so absolutely necessary in
39:31
the day and age that we're living in. It is so critical.
39:35
So I just want to encourage listeners to, you know, just to connect with you, to go to your website.
39:41
I'll have everything in the show notes for you guys. So it's really easy to
39:44
connect and with a click link to get there and just to link arms together because
39:52
we are not called to be alone.
39:54
We are here to link arms and to be in fellowship and community with each other
39:57
so that we can tear that roof off and lower each other down.
40:02
I just, I love that visual. So any last words, Debra?
40:07
You know, just remember, you do not fight alone. And if you have a prodigal,
40:13
you know, I'm standing with you today.
40:15
And just know that you do not fight this alone and that mama,
40:18
God chose you, handpicked you to be the mama to your babies.
40:21
And so he knows what you can do and he knows what's in your heart. And so stay in faith.
40:27
You cannot hate your child enough to get him to heaven, but don't love them straight to hell.
40:31
Love them in the truth. And so stand strong with them. And if you have young
40:35
kids today and you're just starting this parental journey, you know,
40:39
join with us at 12 central time every single day. Set an alarm on your phone,
40:44
whatever time zone you're in, 12 central time.
40:46
We just bow our heads and we pray for the prodigals.
40:49
Join us in praying for the kids that they would all come home.
40:52
Oh, that's awesome. Guys, run and get her book. It is fabulous.
40:56
Thank you, Debra. It was really wonderful talking to you today.
41:00
Thank you so much. If today's conversation stirred something in you,
41:04
if you're craving a little more quiet, a little more presence,
41:07
and a little more Jesus in the everyday, I want to invite you to grab the Wanderer's Field Guide.
41:12
It's a four-week journey of seeking, gathering, harvesting, and abiding in His presence.
41:17
Just one page a day, one prayer at a time. It's not about perfection.
41:21
It's about coming home to Him.
41:23
You can order yours at thetreehousestoryteller.com.
41:29
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