Latest / Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast / 🏡 The Valley Reunion Part 1 Recap COLLAB with Your Bish Therapist

Transcript

🏡 The Valley Reunion Part 1 Recap COLLAB with Your Bish Therapist · Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, everybody. Hello, darlings. This is a special episode for me.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: And a very special episode for me because Darling Bishes.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: This is a drama Darling YBT collaborative v Hello.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Welcome in, everybody, Welcome in.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Hi Melissa, Hi Amy. How are you, my love?
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I'm great. I'm so happy that we get to come
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: together at the end of the valley. Well poised to
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: go into three episodes of the reunion, but to kick
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: off Reunion one with you is going to be really
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: exciting for me, really exciting for the Darling listeners because
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: you always have you know. I mean, you've got a therapeutic,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: incredible take on all of this and there's so much happening,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: so I cannot wait to talk to you about it.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Same. I love podcasting with you. And it's amazing
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: how many they call themselves the Darling Bishes when there's
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: you know, crossover between the two names, so you know,
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: because I don't give names or anything like that, but
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: I've picked up on that's what people say.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: So for all the Darling Bishes listening, Hello.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Thanks you see, we love you.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Thank you for being here.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for being here. As I put on
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: a little gloss It's eight thirty my time, so I'm
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: ready to rock.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: You really are. When you said you could do it
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: that early, I was like, oh God, bless Amy you are.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I couldn't do this that early. Really, No, I'm not
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: a morning cow.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, no, no, Well, let's well before we get into
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: the Valley Reunion Part one. I know that you watched
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Watch What Happens Live last night. I did not. There
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: was just I don't know, like maybe a quarter of
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: the cast members on from next Gen. So please fill
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: me in on what happened, because I want to hear.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: I love that show.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, Honestly, I was talking with Ryan Bailey about this.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: I love the show too, and I actually thought it
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: was better than Ronie. I thought it was better than
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: like the New whatever. I think whatever. These kids, there's
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: just like real authentic relationships, and that's what I miss
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: about Housewives. That's just something that I've been thinking about
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: why I think that I liked it better because it
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: seems more genuine, more real, as opposed to these women
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: who are now cast and it's you have to wear
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: all these it's just turned into a different animal.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: But anyway, so.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Gia, Judice, Emira, and Brooks Marx were on and they
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: revealed a couple of interesting things. Number one is that
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Charlie has left the Group Chat and seems like he
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: has left the show.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Wow, did he buy any chance join the boys chat
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: in place of Danny over on the Valley?
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Well, can I tell you? I joke that Charlie is
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: the Jacks of next Gen? So I'm sure he was
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: welcomed into the group Chat with open arms. Well that's open, Yeah,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: that would be amazing.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Yeap. Jackson is ready to invite anybody in there. Well
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: that's a bummer. So he's obviously if they come back
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: for a second season, he won't be there, and that's
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: gonna be a real problem because he was definitely I mean,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: you need these villains, so what are they gonna do?
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Yikes?
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: You know, listen, I'm happy to see him go because
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I just felt he was just the worst. And I
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: have no I'm allergic to men like him, if I'm
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: being honest, So for me, I'm happy. But at the
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: same time, you're right, it's like, well, he was the
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: source of all the drama, So what's gonna happen? But
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I guess we shall find out.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: There's always a new budding villain somewhere.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, especially in New York City. Honey, there diamond doesn't right.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: So and then the other thing that was really interesting
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: is that Gia was asked, you know, Andy loves to
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: ask the shady questions, and he asked you to rank
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: the New Jersey Housewives Melissa.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Gorga, Dolo, jen Aiden.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Jen Aiden, thank you, Dina Manzo okay, And Gia's response
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: was Dolo first, okay, then jen Aiden, which I was like, girl, please,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: girl bye. Jen Aiden is number.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Two, stop that right now, okay, and then.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Dina was three and Melissa Gorgo was last. And it's
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: funny because when I saw it, they someone had posted
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: all of their Instagram followings in response to Gia's question,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: and Melissa Gorga has the most followers. It's like, Melissa
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Gorga has the most and then Dolo jen Aiden has
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: the least, or maybe Dina does, but either way, you know, it.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Was clearly a very shady response. But it's like, hey,
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: you know she had been indoctrinated.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: A safe question to know a safe answer, because you
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: know that she's going to put it like that. You know,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I just find listen jen Aiden has been on the
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: rocks quite a bit lately, even when she's off the show,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, even when they're not filming. So perhaps Gia's
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: trying to look for a little collab with Jen Aid
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: and bring her on next Gen as a friend.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Of can I tell you? Andy asked the group who
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: they would love to see, like, are there other Housewives
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: kids you'd love to see on the show? And je
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: immediately said my sister, and then Brookes Marx immediately was like, yeah, Chloe,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: who was in the audience, his sister Chloe. And I
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: was like, you know, listen, I give it up to
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: these people for supporting their family and having their back.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: But I'm like, and you know, I have to say,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: that would be fascinating, right It would be like a
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Real Housewives Kids two point zero very I don't know.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I can't say I would hate it, but I just thought.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: And then Andy joked that they were all nepo babies.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: All nepo babies. Yeah, yeah, it would be the end
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: of the Judaice Girls' relationships from here on out. They would, yeah,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: because that's what happens when any Judice Gorga family member
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: gets on a reality show. They split. So I mean,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I would be very concerned that the girls would, you know,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: succumb to the the beckonings of the dark side of
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: reality television, where you know, that becomes more important than
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: their relationships. So I would be very concerned about that,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: and I would say, no, don't. Also, well, Arianna wasn't
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: on last night, but I wonder how she would feel
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: if Brielle was on. And I'm also been curious about
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: how Brielle has been feeling not being a part of it.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: But it does make sense that she's not. I mean,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: like Arianna had more of a story to tell and
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: more of more going on. You know, she was willing
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: to move to New York. You know, I don't know
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: if that was part of her journey before the show
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: presented itself, but and her relationship with Riley and such. So,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: but I did love the books on the show, and
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Chloe was on quite a bit, so she was already Chloe.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: But Meredith and Seth, it was like you really got
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: to see so much of their family behind the scenes,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: which is interesting because I couldn't stand Meredith on Salt
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Lake City, but on Next Gen, I'm like, oh, I
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: love her.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Oh that's so interesting. Yeah, I love death too.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I feel like on Salt Lake City, she's so histrionic,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: you know, there's so much drama. But on Next Gen,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: you know, it's like she's quirky, but she's such a
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: wonderful mother and she's so her and Brooks are so close,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: and you know, I know that people say Brooks isn't
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: the most dynamic television, but I just feel he's such
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: a funny, wonderful person and I love like because he's
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: not super outspoken. You know, they'll do the thought bubbles
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: with Meredith inside being like di engage and it's so funny.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Really gold.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gold, good as gold. Okay, well, shall we
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: move on to the valley? Let's okay?
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: All right? So Reunion Part one, right out of the gates,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: you know, we get a little bit of a dip
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: in with Jackson Brittany, and then of course at the end,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: so you know, obviously they're gonna bookend this entire first episode.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: So how do you feel about talking about Jackson Britney
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: first with what they share in the beginning and then
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: what happened at the end. Are you cool?
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: Just yeah? Absolutely?
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, with this whole vasectomy thing. I mean the
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: immediate moment when britt was.
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: Like, he got a hay have twenty baby bumbles, if
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: he builds a night for sick the bike get get gig, which.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: It's like, Oh my gosh, it's so funny because on
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: my show recently we were talking about like what's going
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: to happen to Jacks if he's not on the show,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Like what do you predict? And I was like, well,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: he'll have like ten kids from ten different women. And
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: it didn't occur to me once that he could actually
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: get a asectomy. So I'm like, oh, yeah, that's a
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: great idea. So I was happy to hear that he's
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: considering it. I don't know if it's too late for that.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: But and then for Brittany to really say that she
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: would touch that dirty dick La Tabe foot pole. But
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: my jaw dropped Melissa when Jack said, well, you said
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: you wanted to hook up one last time at the
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: aquarium four months ago, and the way that she responded
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: made me think that she did allude to that. It
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: did sound like she was like.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: Well, I didn't know what was going on then, but
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: a night.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: I just thought, oh, Brittany, because but it shows that
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: she really did, probably even still to this day, struggle,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: you know, with wanting to be with him. Do you
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: think that she, like at four months ago perhaps, And
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: is it a normal thing to you know, reach out
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: to your ex that you're getting divorced from to have
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: a little something.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah. So here's the thing, Jacks, I am so angry.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I could spit nails about him at this whole reunion.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: He did that to purposely like distract. Look away, look away,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: look away, look at her. And what I want to
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: say on Brittany's behalf is that's absolutely a normal thing.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: How many people listening to this have had sex with
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: an X because you know, when there's divorce or breakups,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: those feelings don't just go away. Also, people have sexual
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: desires and you know all those other things. They have
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: a child together. So he weaponized what is a very
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: normal Listen, I think it was Brittany in a bad
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: moment where she clearly probably again he reponized her being drunk,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: which you know he loves to do that.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: Because he can't drink.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: So therefore now he's the alcohol police, except with himself.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Could you know, whatever, that's a whole other thing. But
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I think that. In my perspective, it's yeah, I mean
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: it's very normal to want to believe that the father
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: of your child could maybe be a better person.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Or if they have the aquarium, you're at the aquarium
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: with Cruse. I imagine it's not like they were just meeting
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: up there, so she's probably feeling, you know, a sense
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: of family. And I mean it does make sense.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: You took the words out of my mouth because imagine
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: that right you're you're Jax has been terrorizing her for months,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: but they're at this aquarium, probably with Cruise. I bet
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: her ovaries are swooning, and you know, she probably thought,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: well what if, or you know, maybe this could work.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: And again, you know, sometimes just people have physical needs.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: So I think it was a very normal, understandable thing.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: I'm grateful now that she is completely out of that
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: because what Jack's I believe wants to do is bait
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: her and then use those things against her continually. So
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: I think for her own good, she needs to step
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: out of that dynamic permanently.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, it was very It was nice to hear
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: actual facts about where they are with their divorce, with
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the settlement, and quite frankly great to see Brittany expose
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: him continuously with having she will have she has full
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: custody now and after the divorce is final, she will
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: allow Jax to see Cruise if he passes the drug
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: test Wednesdays and every other weekend. And then I love that.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: She's like, and if I get my nails done and
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: I need a quick bitey sitter, if I need the
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: good help good to get some bore sets for mahiasid pillows,
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: it's an outleated do they.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I thought, actually in
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: that moment, Melissa, I was a little worried because I thought,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the second that you start using him as like a babysitter,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: things are gonna get tricky. Am I wrong about that?
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like with Jack's in a situation like that,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: you have to have very strong structure that you can't
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: you know, like you know sway from Because the second
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: that she's like, can I just drop a ball for
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: real quick, well I'll get some jails, He's gonna that's
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: gonna cause some problem. He's gonna be like, well I
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: would there was that wasn't part of the thing. I'm
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: going over here, And then she's gonna get mad at
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: him because he has plans, he doesn't want to see
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: the kid. So what are your thoughts on that?
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I tend to agree with you. When I heard that,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: what I thought was that was Britney. So Brittany is
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: awake and she is reading him for filth, which I love.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: But I think that was her anger coming out. I
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: think she's trying to assert dominance over Jacks because she
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: has felt so dominated, so abused.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: For so long.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: It was one of those things that in my clinical
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: brain said, Oh, she's saying that because she wants people
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: to know that she has control over this, and she
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: wants Jax to know, yeah, he has control over it.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: But I agree with you in terms of with Jacks,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: it has to be very You have to have very
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: secure boundaries, like you know, like the Pentagon. I mean,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: they have to be in a regular situation. Would that be,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: of course a beautiful thing to be able to just say, hey,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I'm running an error. Can you take him for a
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: little bit?
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: In a perfect world, that should be what you can do.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: But I agree with you, the Jacks that we all
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: saw on this reunion is not capable of not weaponizing
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: that holding it against her. You know, all of that
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: other stuff. So if I were her therapist, which I'm not,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: I would encourage her to stick to the scheduling until
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Jack's his behavior has told us that he's actually making
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: some changes, because right now, that's not what it's telling us.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, it's so can we talk about the drug
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: testing and stuff. Well, first, it was interesting to find
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: out that he had like one hundred and fifty nine
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: days or something sober, well sober quote.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Because he can't he said, and I quote, I can't
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: and won't stop smoking weed. Which listen, you know, it's
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: I never want to judge how people move through their sobriety,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: but I can speak on Jackson particular, and it's just
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: another it's just another way for him to avoid, you know,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: and deflect and not get to the root of his stuff.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: So to me, I don't think that's great.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: But you know, and the California sober is been so
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: normalized that now people who are trying to get sober
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: see that as a strong option, and I think that
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: is not a good thing. I mean, I hate to
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: say it, as much as I support THCHC and the
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: least supation of it. When you know, and everyone there,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: it seemed like on the couch they were like, oh,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: we were fine. Even Janet was like, that's okay with us,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: And I just thought, but it's really not not for
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: someone like him, And it's not a negotiation. You either
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: are you aren't. And when you say sober, I mean
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: and that is considered a drug that alters your your
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: mind so.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: You can't spell like in person.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Like it's just weird to me when people claim sobriety
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: but are completely you know, in bibing in THHC on
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: a regular basis, because I just don't see that being sober, right.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: And so here's the thing I'll say. I worked in
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: an impatient rehab for drugs and alcohol, and I have
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: kind of it all in terms of people's sobriety journey
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: and things like that. What I can say is that
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: when you are using anything to detach or to prevent
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: yourself from feeling something, it is impossible and it's not
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: even necessarily a substance. People can use shopping, they can
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: you know, people get sober and then they overutilize shopping
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: or they overutilize sex. And that's why people say in
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: the program not to date for the first twelve months
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: because it's really easy to replace those addictive processes, right, Right,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: So with Jack's I think that this in particular, I
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: can't speak of how it works for everyone but for him,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: because Brittany was really clear saying his behavior hasn't changed
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: at all, well because he's not getting to the root
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: of things, because he's still self medicating in ways that
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: are now more quote unquote socially acceptable. Right because everyone
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: was screaming at him about the alcohol and the cocaine,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: but now people are like, oh, yeah, you can smoke weeds.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: So of course he's like, well, yeah, so that's what
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do. Yeah. For him, I just I
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: don't see this being a healthy choice, and I think
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: it keeps him really sick and really stuck.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: But I think you take one, if you take steroids,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: will that show up in your drug tests?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: You have to do specific testing for steroids, because what
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Brittany was talking about is when you move from impatient
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: to outpatient, it's like you decrease the level of care
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: and you have an outpatient counselor who's part of the
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: recovery process is weekly drug testing. So it's not like
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Jacks's volunteering for that that's part of his program.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: I guarantee it.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: And those tests will only test for they'll test for
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: all the you know drugs, they'll do a whole panel,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: But steroids is something completely different. Okay, And I'm glad
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: that it was brought up because Jax. Did anyone hear
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: him say that he gained thirty pounds?
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's right.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: He yeah, he was talking to Janet about that at
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: the brain.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: That's right. And does Jacks look thirty pounds heavier or
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: does he look a little bit more muscled? That's steroids
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly, Okay, people who utilize steroids will gain intense
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: amounts of muscle, weight and bulk. And if he had
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: really gained thirty pounds, he would have looked a lot different.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: So I think here's my thing with Jack's he told
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: on himself throughout this whole reunion. You just have to
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: have the right ear.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Wow, Yes, he told on himself inadvertently and deliberately, like
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: he did come lean on a lot of stuff. He's like, well,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna argue with that. That is pretty true,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: you know, But then the other things that he's completely
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: lying about. You're right, he showed his hand, but I
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: was actually pretty not shocked, but it took me a back.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I was taken aback with the steroids situation because I thought, well, here, Brittany,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't know she was going to turn in that
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: direction when she was like, well, you know why you
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: know here you are? You're you're supposed to be sober.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Your your attitude and personality are so sporadic, so it's
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: not the drugs and alcohol. Why are you still just
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: as crazy as before? Are you taking steroids? So when
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: she said are you taking steroids? I thought she was
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: going to say, so, are you really sober? But then
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I was like, but she's been doing the drug test
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: with him, so that is It sounds like an answer,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: but I didn't know. So steroids obviously are they composed
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: of like a lot of testosterone, So then that makes
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: you have it triggers some Can you speak on that?
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can speak on this definitely. So steroids, there
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: is there are different just like with medications, there's different applications.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: So you can do like TRT, like hormone replacement for men,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: if you have low testosterone, that is totally appropriate. There's
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: nothing wrong with that. But so if we're talking about
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: legal things that's really well managed by a doctor, and
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: you're not going to be getting human growth hormone and
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: all these other wacky things. Now there's a whole other
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: part of the steroid community where it's ordering things from Mexico,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: putting things in your body that have permanent impacts on
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: mental and physical health, which, unfortunately, there are a lot
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: of people who make those choices because they care more
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: about how they look than about how they feel, behave,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: or really about their health. And so I think what
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: she's talking about with Jack's is not the legal part
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: that we're talking about. I would assume that it's some
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: of these other really intense steroids that absolutely have psychological
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: impacts in terms of they can make you feel rage.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: You know, if anyone who's listening to this who's ever
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: done hormone replacement. I had to do it when you know,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: after surviving ovarian cancer and I felt bipolar, like I
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: felt like I had bipolar disorder. It was such a
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: swing in my mental health because my hormones were completely off.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: And so I don't think this gets talked enough, talked
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: about enough. Is that a lot of men who are
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: on these medications I think their mental health really suffers,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: but I don't know that they care because they look
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: good and that's xikes.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and when they are displaying these fits of rage
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: or anger, it probably makes them feel, you know, somewhat confident,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: powerful in control, and you know, manly if for lack
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: of better words. And so do you think because when
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: he came out of rehab, the rehabit he said he
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: went to that. We know he went to the mental
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: health facility. We understand that he relapsed the first week.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: He tried to say two weeks. Isn't that just perfect?
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: How like people lie, They're like, he's gonna admit it,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: but not what it really is. But on his terms, yeah,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: he had three dice. You about three dice?
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: You were like eighty.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: And that was so obvious because remember that dinner that
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: that like boys dinner he went to. And then he
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: was immediately after I think Danny or Jesse, I don't
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: even remember who, but he was attacking the men at
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: the table and he was it was like the same Jackson.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I just thought, well, he's back at it. I mean,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: he's clearly, you know, allegedly on something. At this point,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: he is not sober. It looked so obvious. But then
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: now that Britney said steroids, I'm like, okay, I wonder
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: if that was what we were seeing.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And here's the thing. I don't think Jackson needs
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: steroids to continue to behave like an ass. I think
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: that's just part of his personnel, if I'm being honest,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Because sometimes what happens is people get sober, but sobriety
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: is a transformative process of internal change, personal growth that
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: requires accountability, rigorous honesty, and the change can be seen
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: in behaviors. When you see someone come in sick and
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: then they get sober, they're usually a completely different person.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: And so when you have someone take the substance away
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: and they're still having those same personality characteristics, well, that
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: indicates that we're kind of encroaching on another issue.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Here, Okay, right, which is it anger? Because he keeps
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: saying it's well, I mean it kind of sounds like
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: you're agreeing with Jack's Melissa. It's not the drugs or
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: the alcohol, it's something else. No, I'm joking, I'm joking,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: But what I mean is it? So he keeps saying anger, anger,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: But obviously it's the pain and the trauma and all
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: the issues that he's had that he hasn't dealt with.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: But what is it? What is what are the underlying issues? Okay,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: well you can't.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Be really careful here, No, So here's what I said.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Narcissistic behavior he said, he said bipolar, hasn't he hasn't
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: he said he's bipolar?
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Or have I said that? Okay, that's not okay. So
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: here's how I'm going to explain this. Okay, when we
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: look at personality disorders, we look at them on a spectrum. Right,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: every personal live amy you included me, everyone, We have
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: narcissistic traits and tendencies. Everybody does, okay, But if you
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: look at things on a continuum, over to the left
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: is going to be less traits and tendencies, in the
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: middle is going to be, you know, kind of statistically
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: maybe where more people lie. And then to the right
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: is going to be people who have personality disorders, where
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: there is a pervasive and persistent pattern of inflexible behaviors
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: and tray that continue to create problems.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: So let's give him sometimes airhorn for that explanation. Yes,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: bish therapists.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: So I have to be cautious about how I say
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: this because you know, I'm not diagnosing Jack's.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: I don't know him.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: I can't make that, but what I can see is
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: that and from my clinical experience, when you have people
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: come into treatment and they take away the substances and
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: the problems still exist, it's usually an underlying personality issue
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: that needs to be addressed and focused on. Anger is
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: what's called a secondary emotion. So Jax likes to focus
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: on anger because it makes him feel powerful, and a
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: lot of men fall in this bucket, right that anger
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: can make people feel really powerful, and he doesn't want
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: to give the only power he feels he has a way. So,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: but anger is a secondary emotion in that it's a
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: symptom and there's always under other stuff underneath, which can
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: be guilt, shame, which you know, I'm sure Jacks has
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: some of that. It can be you know, depression, anxiety.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: There's always something underneath that anger. So the fact that
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: he's over focusing on the symptom that he's most comfortable
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: with tells me that he's not ready, that there's still
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: some denial in minimization. He's not quite ready to say okay.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: You know, when people fully accept, you know that they
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: have a disease. To me, to kind of finish out
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: the discussion about this piece, is that I think that
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: to me, when I look at Jax's behaviors and the
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: fact that he's still engaging in the same behaviors tells
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: me that he still has a fair amount of denial
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: and minimization that he's living under that perpetuates these same
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: unhealthy behaviors.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: What is Jack's rock bottom?
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Well, the interesting thing I can tell you from working
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: in impatient rehab is I have met people who their
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: bottom doesn't come and they die. Unfortunately, there are some
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: people that something happens and it's their bottom. So a
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: bottom is subjective for every single person experiencing it. Because
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: you would think at this point that all of the
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: stuff should have or could have been his rock bottom,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: but it clearly isn't because he hasn't made real change.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: He's not ready to make real change. So could it
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: be getting fired from the show? Maybe? I don't know,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: because to me, it seems like the only thing that
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Jack's really cared about is being fired from the show.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: He told on himself again at a point in the
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: reunion where he said, well, I went to treatment because
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: I wanted to keep my job.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: He said.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was like, yeah, I went to treat. He goes,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: I went to rehab because of Cruz and because the
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: show made me do it. Like, well, at least he does, no,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: But he.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Said the show first, and then he goes, oh yeah,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: and my son and my son and my son, and
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, you just told on yourself again. Yeah, yeah,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: he really all I think Jax cares about Jack's I
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: think Jax cares about his image and his career more
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: than he cares about anyone or anything. And I just
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: think he hasn't been able to be honest about that.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: But his behaviors tell me that that's kind of how
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: he's moving. And I just I wonder if being kicked
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: off the show could be a bottom for him, because
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: that's the only thing he really cares about.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Well, getting you know, fired from vander palmp Rules was
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: in fact the first bottom for him that made him
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: spiral worse than ever before. Because that's when Brittany was saying,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: you know, we really got the timeline here, which I
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: thought was very important because this whole time I was thinking,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: you know, when he was in the valley and they
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: had this house and you know, she's pregnant and they
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: had a child, and it's COVID and here we're just
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking, Wow, Jackson and Brittany are really doing well.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: They're off camera, they're having this little life in suburbia.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: And who would have thought, Remember we all were like,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: who would have thought Jacks would be the one to
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: have like an actual relationship that's successful. Remember when we
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: were all saying that, and when we were watching scandall
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: and all that happening. But really what was actually going
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: on was, you know, all the things that Brittany was saying,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: he started to, you know, lash out at her because
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: he didn't have the job. She was making the money,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: and he was, you know, essentially diminishing her and scolding
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: her for that because of his resentment. And it was
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: a horrific scene and not at all what we imagined
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: it was, or rather at least I did thinking the best.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: And so that was a turning point when things got bad.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: So now cut to Okay, he's fired from Van the
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Valley again. He's not coming back, I mean, I imagine,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: and yet in the I don't think he will. I
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: think he's too much of a liability. Is he really
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: the most compelling part of the show. I mean, perhaps,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: but there's also other things going on. We can live
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: without Jacks, yes, but remember when he said he was
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: going to prolong the divorce until he found out if
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: he was going to lose the job on the Valley
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: so that he could get alimony. Yes, that again, Like
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: you know how you said he told, he told on
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: himself so many times. I mean, that's just a perfect example.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: You can look at that one dimensionally and say, well,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: that's just an asshole thing to do. But at the
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: end of the day, it's so calculated and it's so
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: narcissistic because and here I am trying to pretend like
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I'm a bish therapist, which I'm not. But let me
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: just let me try, Okay, let me get this try.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: So what I'm seeing, and I'm not diagnosing, but what
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: I'm seeing here is that he feels entitled to money
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: because this is his show and she wouldn't be there
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: if it weren't for him, So he's entitled to the
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: money that she would make on that show because ultimately,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: when she goes on camera, I would say seventy five
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: percent of it is going to be about him. Whether
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: he's on camera or not. And he's not wrong. But
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: do I think he deserves alimony? Absolutely not. He can
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: fuck straight off. And I think it's really disgusting that
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: he would even threaten her for that and play that hard.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: And we saw it even when and they had that
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: argument on camera earlier a few episodes ago. It's so
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: gross because when he is like, you know, going, he's
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: trying to keep it together on that couch and being like,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: it's so hard, it's so hard. I'm a person too,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: And I remember Andy being like looking at him, like
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: what are we seeing?
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: Here? Are we getting?
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: What are we getting? You know, like we see any
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: tears and we seeing anything? And no, I mean it's
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: just not there. It's just not there. He's just trying
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: to put a lid on and he's trying to cork it.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: He's doing the best he can. He thinks he's doing
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: the best he can in that situation. He is, because
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: he's just not showing what he's feeling, you know. Anyway,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: that's my diagnosis.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Can I tell you, yeah, Oh my god, thank you
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: so much, thank you. No, I'm not kidding. I fully
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: agree with you, And to me, everything you said is
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: accurate and to take it one step further is that
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: it's another extension of he feels entitled to financially abuse Brittany.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: He feels entitled to engage in financial abuse because because
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: that's what it is. It's an offshoot of continued financial
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: abuse to say, this is my show, you got me fired,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: so now you're going to pay. It's all in line
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: with the other abuse of behaviors that he's been perpetuating
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: on camera in front of people. And my therapist brain
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: is exploding because I'm like, how are we all just
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: breezing past this?
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Wow?
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Is everyone just breezing past? It's insane to me. But
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: you're right, he feels entitled to her in every way,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: shape and form, and that says everything you need.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: To know about him.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: And when she was making money and saving their ass,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: he was coming down on her for that. So she
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: makes money, he's angry, right, what if she didn't make money?
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: But what is what would have happened?
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Well, don't you remember how many times Jax tried to
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: hold it over Brittany that I'm the one who supports
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: this family and I'm the one who pays for everything.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: We've heard him say that. So to your point, there's
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: nothing that Brittany could have done to have pleased Jack's
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: nothing that personality with you that is not someone who's
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: just an active addiction or whatever. That is a personality
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: issue that is showing a pattern of inflexible and persistent,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: you know, issues over time. And let me tell you what.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: So all of these things that we're talking about, to
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: the steroids, the entitlement, the financial abuse, these are all
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: through through lines with a certain personality type with men.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: And the reason that Jacks is doing this is because
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: he has a teeny.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: Tiny little ego.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Oh you were going to say, B B Yeah, I know,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I know, I'm not, but the ego is teeny teeny tiny.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: And you know, men who have these really small egos,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: they really need to do things to make themselves feel
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: powerful and strong and so.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Everything that I'm like, when you say small ego, that's
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: like blowing my mind because all we hear is, oh,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: he's got such a big ego. He's got such a
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: big ego. So I don't This concept to me is
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: completely new. I don't even know what you're talking about.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: What do you mean? I mean, I know you were
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: going to explain it, but I have to put my
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: question in there, so the darling bushes, no, I'm on
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: your side. I don't know what she's talking about, and
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know what she's gonna say. Small ego.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, here's why I say that it's very small
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: because usually, you know, a big ego is consistent with
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: some of Jack's behaviors, and we hear that a lot,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: but really in actuality and I'm kind of being sassy too.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm not being my best clinical self. But hey,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: we're here to do a fun podcast, and so you know,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: I'm not here to like be my best clinical self.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: But the small ego is referring to that when men,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: when you perceive them to have a big ego, when
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: you perceive them to that he people think that Jax
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: thinks he's larger than life. I actually think Jack's thinks
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: very little of himself. There are two groups of men
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: in terms of when you see this ego stuff. There
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: are people and not just men, women too, and all
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: people right, irrespective of sex or gender. But when you
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: see someone that has a big ego, there's either two
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: ways that it goes. Is that they do really have
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: this kind of delusional belief that they have their grandiosity.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: That's kind of the clinical term for it, that they
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: have a sense of grandiosity that they are greater than
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: other people. But then there are people and I think
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Jack's into this bucket where they actually feel very small
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: and they actually feel very you know, when Jack said
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: something about Danny, he compared him to a serial killer.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: I talked about that's defensive projection, meaning that's likely how
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Jack's feels about himself. So in reality, Jack's I think,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: is doing all this stuff to make it seem big
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: and you know, bold, But I think he's really just
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: a very small, insecure person who needs to put other
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: people down to make himself feel great. I don't think
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: he really believes that he is great.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense, Yeah, yeah it does, And that's sad.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: I could be wrong, but.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: I just like, at the end of the day, you
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: know all this, it's like you watch somebody for so
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: many years and you think, Wow, he's finally going to
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: go to rehab, even though I knew at that point
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: it's not going to work because of the state that
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: he was in when he was in rehab and how
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: short of a time he was there. Like, you know,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: I wasn't very hopeful, but I feel very very bad,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: you know, And there's a part of me which I
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: know you probably I don't know if you feel the
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: same way, but as a recapper of this show and
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: watching these shows all these years, it's like, you know,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: I am guilty of like delighting in this villainous behavior
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: for the sake of entertainment. And it's just a gross feeling,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: because when you get down to the ugly parts, the
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: really dark parts, and the truth of what's been going on,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: you want to disengage entirely, shut down your computer, your
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: TV log off, and just be on your merry way
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: because to be a part of the web of what's happening,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: and then to you know, talk so specifically about this
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: human being who is an absolute mess, who has destroyed
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: his own life, his his wife's life. You know, at
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: least at this point she will rebuild them, and I
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: hope that he will too. I'm concerned, and you worry
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: about about Cruise, you know, their child, And it's just
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: a weird, weird feeling, you know.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: You know, I had I fully understand. And Ryan Bailey
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: when we podcasted, he said the same thing. He said,
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: it makes me feel uncomfortable to know that, you know,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: you think that someone you watch on TV can't possibly
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: be like a really terrible person or in the use
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: of Perth, right, we don't want to believe that, we
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: want to believe that these people who we have have
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: grown to kind of love are just flawed humans, right,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: And because that you can forgive, right, that you can
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: move on from. But fortunately Jax is an example of
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: someone who everyone you know, that that Housewives drop of,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: we were all rooting for you, we were all rooting
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: for you, and he is just incapable at this point
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: of being who everybody.
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: Wants him to be.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: And I understand that feeling of feeling duped, of feeling icky,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: because I just I totally understand it. But I don't
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: think anyone realized how significant it was until recently. And
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: so you know, you can only go with the information
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: that you have at the moment. But I do hope
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: this is kind of an awakening for all of us,
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: for Bravo, fans, for Bravo, because this isn't making people
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: feel good, it's triggering people. It's causing people a lot
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: of trauma, survivors a lot of legitimate issues, and that's
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: not what this thing we love so much is supposed
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: to be. So I understand where you're coming from.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: If it had a happy ending or if we saw
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: it going in a different direction, it would be a
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: different story of how I'd be feeling, because it would
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: be like, well, this is real life we're watching. You know,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: this is an unexpected turn. But look at what's happening
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: and what a journey that could be. But you know,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: at this point it's only darkness. And really, at the
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: end of the day, I wanted to ask you and
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: then I want to take a break. But when Jack
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: said to in response to Britney saying like, but you
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: knew we were filming and you still did these things,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: and Jack said, I'm not thinking about filming. That's why
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: our show is the real shit, because I put everything
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: out there. What is your take on that?
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: M he's full of it. I think again, it's his
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: way to try to make himself the lynchpin of the
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: show because he didn't want to get fired.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: It was completely manipulative.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I was vacillating, Honestly, sure I was aiming.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Can I say, to your defense and everyone listening to this,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: is that empathetic humans want to believe the best in
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: other people.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: I certainly do.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Right, that's my job as a therapist to be a cheerleader,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: to believe the best in these people who are trying
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: their best. But unfortunately there are just some people who
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: are going to disappoint you. And as an empathetic person,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: that is really disappointing.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, when he said that, I was like, Okay,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: just like you said, that was a great pitch to Bravo. Yeah,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: perfect pitch, a perfect log line for why he should
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: still be on the show and why this is the
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: greatest reality show right now on Bravo. And it is
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: because of him and the others, but mostly because of
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: his relationship with Jackson Brittany, because it's so polarizing, because
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: it's so compelling, because it's so destructive and you can't
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: take your eyes off the car crash, right. But I
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: also was like, he's also so delusional that he's coming
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: into these shoots and he's not even thinking about the cameras. Yeah,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: he is just showing up before he goes to rehab,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: and he's like, you know, trying to take some of
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: his stuff or he's like, you know, he's doing this
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: all with actual, genuine authenticity, regardless of the cameras being there.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of like horror. Yeah, so it's a
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: little bit of both. It's a little bit of both, right.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Well, because also it's like imagine, you know, well, now
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: we know what happened, but if he's willing to do
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: that when cameras are up, what is he willing to
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: do when cameras are down?
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's her and I'm glad that, Brittany. Do
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: you okay, Well, I don't think she's telling us everything, obviously,
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: do you.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: I don't either, No, because I've had the honor of
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: or with and treating survivors of domestic violence and abuse,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: and there I would guarantee our secrets buried under there
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: that yes, I would guarantee that that's not all that
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: has happened.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: I was proud of her that she even shared what
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: happened that day, you know, when she went through and
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: it was really brave, and the things that he said
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: to her, the things that he did, the way he acted.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Really truly it's amazing how what a strong person she
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: is and what a good person that she is. And
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: she has her her issues too, you know, I mean
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: she signed up for this and thought she could change
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: this guy. And that's that. But all right, well, are
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: you okay if we take a break and then come
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: back and talk about other people? Yes, okay, we'll be
• 45:56
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  Speaker 1: talking the valley. So it's me Amy Phillips from Drama
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  Speaker 1: Darling and obviously.
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  Speaker 2: And it's your besch therapist Melissa Reich.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Yay, Well, just to cleanse the palette. It was really
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: nice to have us have them tell the story of
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: you know, fertility journeys, welcoming babies, the pregnancy, you know,
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: having two goals on the couches being pregnant, Kristin and Nia.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: It was really nice to see and I love what
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: they shared.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: Me too, And you know, it really warmed my heart
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: because so many women have fertility issues. You know, I
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: lost my ability to have children after overary and cancer.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: And I just love when it's a discussion, it's a true, honest,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: raw discussion, because I think it makes a lot of
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: women feel seen and validated and heard. And it also
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: brings me. So it's like the only part of the
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: valley that brings joy, right, seeing these two people expand
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: their families in ways that they've been wanting to do,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: and you know, it's just such a much needed happy
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: sorbet to this very dark, very intense show.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad that they dropped into that and really
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: let us sit with that for a while, and because
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: we really that is you know, what is this show
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: is about, with expanding families, making families beyond working at sir,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: even though you know, we didn't know Nia and Danny,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: but it was just really really great to see. And
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: I also love that Kristen just popped off at the
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: very beginning and just put it out there and apologize
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: to Janet.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: You know, I have to say, I thought, this is
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: the Kristen that I love, right, this is the empathic
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Kristen who does take ownership and accountability and realizes that
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: you know, I call Kristin like a misguided empathic avenger
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: right when her That's what I call her. When her
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: friends are hurt, she'll like put on this avenger costume
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: and then try to come to their rescue. But in
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: the process she just acts like such an asshole, and
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: then she becomes part of the problem, right, but it
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: comes from this really good place. So I think that
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: kristin getting ready to become a mother, is starting to
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: understand and grow right, She's growing up and starting to
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: understand that, Okay, I can't just say whatever the heck
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: I want when I'm angry, and I have to own
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: that this was a wacky thing to say. But my
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: the thing I was most oppressed about is that how
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: Janet was very receptive to it, which I was, Yeah,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: that's very interesting.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: That was shocking. Yes, I mean they both surprised us.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: I mean they'll probably get into it later and yeah,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: but but at least off the bat, it was nice
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: to see them do that.
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: It really was.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: What about Michelle and Jesse and God, you know, to
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: go from Jack's and then to head on over to
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: this next junior so disheartening. I was so proud of
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: the women on this show. Britney standing up to Jackson
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: in front of the entire world, Michelle standing up to
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Jesse and telling her freaking side in front of the
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: entire world. He couldn't even argue with her truth, he
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: really she tried, and then he had to just sit back.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, which I loved. I loved that
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Michelle and Brittany just ate up these men and they
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: were like, we're not keeping your secrets anymore. This is
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: and both of them had to sheepishly like at first
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: they'd be like, no, that didn't happen, and then they'd be.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: Like, okay, fine, it did right, And.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: It's like, so what bothered me with Jesse because it
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: seemed like at the last episode that he was like
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: vulnerably taking accountability. But what I found so fascinating is
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: that Michelle really called Jesse on how he uses crying
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: to manipulate, and I was like, she is a thousand
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: percent right. And you know how I know that she's
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: right is he does this same old stick song and
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: dance of crying and saying I lay down my sword,
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: but he's engaging in the same behaviors. So when you
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: are claiming that you're making changes but it's just words
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: and you're not actually changing behavior, that's a sure sign
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: that it's manipulation.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Absolutely. He even tags these these crying statements with
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: a giveaway, which is like I'm just so tired. It's
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: like it's all about you again, you know, and she's like, yeah,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: I'm tired too. And you know, I loved Janet said
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: one thing that I just thought was so perfect. She
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: was like, Wow, those tears dried up really quickly, you know,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: And that is true. Like every single time we've seen
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: him kind of break down to Michelle to just like
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: lay prostrate and just be like, have what you will?
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: I surrender, you know. You know, the second that she
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: calls him out on that, those tears go away and
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: he's immediately back on defense mode. They were never real
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: it is. It's so true, the fact that he manipulates
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: with these tears. I've never believed it for one second,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: to be honest with you, not once, because I know
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: someone like that. I think we all do, and I
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: think we all know several people like that. But my gosh,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: I loved it.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it's you know, and here's the thing.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: Jesse knows how to women, so as I just talked about,
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: when women see a man cry and feign vulnerability, when
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: you're an empathic, loving person, you're gonna want to believe
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: it or think the best of someone. But I think
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: it's very clear that it's literally all manipulation because he's
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: doing the same thing over and over. And you know,
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: the same thing with Jax is when he was like
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: he was like putting his thumb up to his eye
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: and it's like, there's no tears, there's no tears there.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: But Jesse actually is able to squeak out some real tears.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: It's just like when he's done performing, he shuts them off.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: Because that's I don't know if anyone knows, that's not
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: how tears work, but it isn't.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: It really isn't. How about when he was like, you're
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: you're weaponizing our daughter read the comments online and and
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: he was like, ah, it's not about the commenters.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: I was like, tell me that you have no credibility
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: without telling me that you have no credibility. Right when
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: he put that out, I was like, bro, you just
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: completely like derailed. Yeah, yeah, derailed your point and let
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: us know that you're a complete moron.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: And section Frank Dremmen too.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Too. Oh what should we name Jesse?
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: He named him.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, we'll find another like pseudonym for him, but yes,
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: And I think that's why Jesse and Jack's they get
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: along so well because their very similar personalities just acted
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: out a little bit differently, Yeah, same bs underlying it.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: Though, absolutely, and the whole issue with Michelle's dying mother.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, So did you catch that? They said
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: they hired a therapist to talk about mortality with Isabella,
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: which I of course Jesse tried to say he did it,
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: and then Michelle was like, know, we did it, we did,
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: we did, we did.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: What did you think about, Honey, them hiring a behavioral
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: therapist to talk about mortality.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: I thought it was brilliant because what I've talked about
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: on my podcast is that that kids are empathic, intuitive creatures.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: They can't they understand things on a level that sometimes
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: I think adults have completely checked themselves out from right.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: And so I believe that Isabella had more of an
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: idea in understanding of what was going on. But the
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: problem is what kids do is they have magical thinking
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: that makes them believe that they are the problem. And
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: so what I loved about them doing that is kids
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: need to have adults explain to them very tough things
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: because their brains physically cannot process it. They don't have
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: the cognitive capacities. They're brains aren't formed enough, you know,
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: until basically twenty five, and even some research studies suggest
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: for neurodivergent people it's closer to thirty when we have
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: full brain development. So when you're looking at a yeah,
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: when you're looking at a small child, she is going
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: to sense the tension and.
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: But just believe that it's her.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: So my hope and my thought is that hiring this
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: person to talk about it helped Isabella immensely, which makes
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: my soul sing because she's ultimately the one in this
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: who's getting hurt the most. But they did note that
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: the therapist said that she did need to see Michelle's
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: mother and that Jesse needed to give Michelle grace, which
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: of course did not happen, surprise, surprise.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: It was really great to hear Michelle's side and to
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: actually hear what was really going on. This reunion was
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: so important for the healing of both Brittany and Michelle.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: I feel like.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: I fully agree it was the first time that they
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: were able to have people hear them, validate them, see them,
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: understand them, and support them. Because these two men have
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: gas lit for probably their whole relationship that they were
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: the problems. Yeah, so it made me super happy.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: And also there was a chorus of people on those
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: couches going no, we saw the text. No, we saw
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: the text. Now we know, we know, we know what
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: the truth is. Okay.
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: The only thing that Jesse has going for him in
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: these moments is that he can make a joke, which
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: is that he's representing himself and he's like, I've watched
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: Suits three times, which was very funny.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: And that's the difference between Jackson and Jesse that I
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: always argue that Jesse is just more charismatic. He knows
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: how to smooth schmooze a little bit more than jack does.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: Jackson is just like done with schmoozing, He's done with pretending.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: Jesse still has that schmooze part of him that you know,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: it's it's part of a greater pattern that's concerning, But
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: in the moment, I think it's hilarious.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: It's part of a greater pattern that's concerning.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: But it's funny as hell in the moment.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, the way of therapist mind works is
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: really funny. That's funny. Well, I mean, I completely agree. Also,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: Jackson has never had any other job, you know, so
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: it's like Jesse has been well, I guess he's kind
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: of been working as an adult as a real estate
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: agent right up until who knows, like COVID or whatever.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: So he does have that wheel and deal. Let's throw
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: some humor on it to close the deal. Oh this
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: is this needs a new roof and all new electrical
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: But hey, listen, you know every house has its thing, right,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: you know he's going to have that humor on it.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: So I, you know, I did not realize that that
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: house was rented. I don't know. I guess I just
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: because the way that Jesse talked about that house near
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: the Chateau Marmont and that's such a great location all
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: this stuff. I thought that that was the home that
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: they owned. So to find out that it's a rental
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: when Andy's like, there are no assets, why is this
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: so difficult? I was like, but the house? And then
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, did you realize it
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: was rented? No?
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: Absolutely not. And I think that that was a wild
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: realization for me because I was like, wait, so if
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: there's right, if there's no assets, how it just confused
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: me greatly and it also to me made it more
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: significant that Jesse. So Jesse wasn't willing to move out
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: of a rental, right, I guess so he was even
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: your home.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: He was so committed to staying in this place that
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: he put himself at financial risk because he couldn't afford it.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: He's trying to sing this Swan song or this sad
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: song that Swans whatever, some sort of song, you know
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: that he Michelle, he was like, no, you can't, you
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: can't have this place. I'm going to die in here,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: and you you go, you sleep downstairs. And then she
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: she said it was so it was unbearable to live there,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: so she went and got another place. And then he
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: whinds about, well then it was double the rent with
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: only one income. It's like move, move.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: Literally, it's that simple, just move, Just move somewhere that's
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: a better fit for you. I don't I do not understand.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: And it's clear that Jesse at first was trying to
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: say that he didn't have money issues, and then all
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, like when Michelle said it, he was
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: like no, and then Andy said it. He was like yeah, okay, fine,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: and it's like, really right, did you catch that? I
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: was like, are you serious? So you know, I just
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: think Jesse creates his own issues, and he wants so
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: badly for Michelle to be the cause of that, because
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: wouldn't that be easier if Michelle was his problem instead
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: of him being his problem?
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm too late, too little, too late. When
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: you keep explaining you try, you try, you try, you
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: went to these men's groups. You know you're trying. It's
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: too late. What you've done is done and done. She's gone.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: Whatever you're trying, whatever you tried to do to bring
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: her back, was still nauseating and still not working. And
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: in the meantime, to hear how painful it was to
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: be with him is just really sad. And then oh
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: the other thing about the rent, She was like, yeah,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: he's like, I'm paying my rent And she said, well,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: who's loaning you the money? Oh?
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: I got that?
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: Da is it Quentin Tarantino?
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: Well is his gay friend from Venmo? You know that
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: venmoed him all of this money? Remember that was a
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: whole thing. I think they talk about it in another
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Andy asked him like, who's the gay person that set
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: you this money?
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: And I think they're going to talk about it.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: But clearly Jesse has trouble managing finances and that's not
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: a Michelle problem. That's fully a him problem, and to me,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how he cannot easily resolve that by
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: just moving to somewhere he can actually afford.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, it could be solved. All right, Well, is
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: there anything else that you want to speak on with
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: Michelle and Jesse? I don't know if I have anything else.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: There was something that came up in my brain.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: But then was it the Baywatch the season Desist any event?
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: Okay, yes it was that.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: Oh no, here's what it was. Okay, it was how
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: Jesse really I think Jesse the men's group chat, it
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: seems like a real men's rights sort of algorithm type nonsense,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: and he really thought he had something when he talked
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: about that his daughter could meet his girlfriend because they're
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: both females and you know, because vaginas, but he couldn't
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: meet Aaron because he's a man, and I love that.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Checks they were, you know, both these men's rights guys
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: were like yeah, fulk ladies, And it's like everyone else
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: was like, no, that's nonsense, Like that might make sense
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: in your men's group chat of horrors, but that's not
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: a thing at all and makes literally no sense.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree and the other thing that was
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: very manipulative and controlling. I don't even I don't know
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: if I can slap sexist on it or not. But
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: this it just inspired me because the men's group thing.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: You know, he's been going to so many men's whatever's
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: hand on heart's type stuff and he's all about like boundaries,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: said boundaries, And when he allowed his girlfriend of one
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: month to call Michelle to set boundaries with Isabella, you know,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: he told her to do that because like some men's
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: group was like, oh yeah, I think it's really healthy
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: to have someone set boundaries, you know, make Michelle feel
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: like she's got control if you call her and say,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: can I have some boundaries? What are you doing? I
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: mean Michelle being like, yeah, this isn't between you, this
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: is between us.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: Why well, okay, I'll tell you why Jesse triangulated his girlfriend.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: So triangulation is a something that happens that people use
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: to try to manipulate and control the narrative. So Jesse involved,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: and it involves so like when you're having a conflict
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: with two people, triangulation means bringing a third party in
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: to triangulate that drama and try to manipulate and control.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: And I think that's exactly what Jesse was doing. The
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: hubris of this man to tell his girlfriend of one
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: month to call the mother of his child. That is
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: the dumbest thing I think I've ever heard of. And
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: I and the fact that she did it, she's probably
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: perfect for Jesse.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I wonder if they met through one of those
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: groups the men's Yeah, No, I don't know. Is that
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: that's the bay Watch gal? Right?
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like she's so she doesn't want Michelle
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: talking about her, so she sent a cease and desist.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: But then it's like, you're gonna call her and say your.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: Boundaries please write both Jesse and.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: His girlfriend please go far away from us with that,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: because that is insane.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: Wait. That other thing that when Sina got brought in
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: was I had to laugh because you gotta love a
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: Sheena pull in when I guess Andy was like, so,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: by the way, when he was talking to Jesse, he
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: had this smirk, that this smirk on his face that
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: was like, I got a deal with this fucking guy.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: He was like, so, what do you say about the
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: rumors that your girlfriend says negative things about you? Which
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: was very strange. I don't know, like too much about
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: the background about that, but he was like, oh, I
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: don't believe it. Well, she holds my feet to the fire,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: and I love that. I was like, what do you
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: think Michelle has been trying to do for years?
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: You idiot?
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: But then he says that Sheena called his girlfriend and
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: said that no one will like you as long as
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: you're with Jesse on the show.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna like you.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna work out well for you.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: And I feel like that's something personally I could totally
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: see Sheena saying. I could totally see her being like, listen,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: you know, I understand you wanting to have this platform,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: but you know, I just could totally absolutely see it.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was very funny. Well, is there anything else
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: that we want to touch on before we wrap up
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: this Valley episode?
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: I think, okay, one thing I did want to touch
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: on the last thing that I'll say, because this really
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: stood out to me in terms of Nia's body image stuff.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: And so Andy was talking to Nia about some of
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: her body image stuff. So I think that you know,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: Nia talked about it really being a balance with you know,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: you live in California, right, so I'm sure you know.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: Santa Ana Clarita Oil near Danny.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: That's right, Are they your neighbors?
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: Kind of?
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: I guess that's wild.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: But so she just talked about the honest difficulty. LA
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: is like a different universe, right in terms of how
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: women body their body image, and you know, she's like
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: in entertainment and so it's finding this happy medium between
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: what works for her body and then like the intense
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: rigors of the It's just it's not great in terms
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: of like how things are in LA and body image
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: and all of that. You know, it's a it's there's
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of unrealistic expectations with women.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: But the one thing.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: That really bothered me was like everyone's talking about how
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: great Janet looked, and she did look great, but she
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: said she lost seventy pounds including the baby. Okay, so
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: what's a baby?
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know?
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: Eight ten so and what she joked that it was
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: from adderall and pilates. I didn't like that. I don't
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: like any of that because I think I need people
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: to understand. I just want to tie this through line.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: Is that Nia's on the couch talking about how hard
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: it is to have four children. What that does to
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: your body, right, Women give their bodies for their families, literally,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: and then what they get in return is shame and
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: guilt and you know, societal expectations. And I just felt
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: that Janet perpetuated that a little bit and I just
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: didn't I just wanted to say I didn't love it.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: I didn't care for it. That's an intense amount of
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: weight to lose for somebody. I just I just want
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: people hearing this. It's like, we got to be healthy
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: and mindful of feeding our bodies appropriately and having self
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: compassion and self love with our bodies, which means you know,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: feeding them appropriately, not treating them badly and things like that.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: And so it's just one last thing that I wanted
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: to say because.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: It didn't agree.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, seventy pounds is a really shocking thing to say. Now,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: I will, I will try to massage those numbers a
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: little bit, because doctors usually say and Darling Bishes correct
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. And my experience is like you
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: would gain like twenty five pounds normally, twenty to twenty
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: five pounds normally with a baby, Okay, that's including like
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: the placenta and you know, your breasts are getting bigger,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: and the blood and the actual weight of the baby.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: So when that baby's out boom, twenty pounds, you know
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: is goneotentially, So if it's like twenty five then but
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: it's like that, So then if you do the math,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: fifty pounds past that from what we saw her last
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: year and we did see her stand up, but I'm
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: like thinking, that can't be healthy. You know, that's that
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: is like a really extreme, too extreme, and and it
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: also shows a little bit of her hand, which is like,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: why did you do that so extremely? Because you're on TV?
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: You know, like clearly right, and do you understand I mean,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you understand this, But how thin you have
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: to be to look really thin on TV, like for example,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: Heather to grow in real life she must be invisible? Yeah,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: I don't, you know. And so I just think that
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: we have to be really careful how we internalize those
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: messages when we're watching something like this on TV, because
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: that expectation I don't think is realistic. It seems extreme
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: to your point, and to me, extremes are a sure
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: sign that something isn't super healthy for us.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: Right. At least she was honest about the adderall.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: That's that's true.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: And I guess, like, how do you get so so
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: what how do you get adderall for weight loss? I
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: don't under like is that why she was taking adderall?
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: And does I adderall have that effect on you?
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: So adding all?
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, adderall. I'll explain too quickly. It's basically one like
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: molecule away from like methamphetamine. It's just like a legal
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: version of that that has a different molecules of differences.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: And so an amphetamine is going to decrease your appetite
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: and it's going to Yeah, it's it's an appetite suppressed.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: So that's why sometimes you see people who use amphetamines
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: they get really skinny and things like that. So my
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: beef with that is that is a psychotropic medication that
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: should only be utilized for folks who have ADHD or
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: add and it should be used appropriately and ethically with
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: your doctor. It's not a medication that should be used
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: for weight loss. And it just does happen to have
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: that effect. So I also didn't like how well it's like,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: do you have ADHD where you prescribed that?
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: And we have some questions?
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I do.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: I have some questions. And so while I appreciate the honesty.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: I think that people in LA two there's a lot
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: of medications used to perpetuate unhealthy food behaviors, which is
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: not healthy for anybody.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: So yeah, absolutely good, good stuff good. That's well, that's
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: a lot, and I'm just so delighted that I can
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: talk to you about this. Thank you so much. I'm
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: so glad we could do our collab together.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: Me too, Thank you, Amy. I always love chatting with you.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: I love connecting with the Darlingbishes. It's one of my
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: favorite things to do. And this has been a whot.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: So thank you with me.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Okay, Well, Melissa Reich, where let's tell you
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: tell my listeners and I'll tell your listeners where they
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: can find.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: Us, Okay, So check me out on Patreon please at
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: your bish therapist. You can find me on social media
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: at your bish therapist. But specifically, if you're looking for
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: ad free extra content full video of Amy and I,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: that will be on my Patreon and it will also
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: be on my YouTube be your bi therapist, so please
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: check that out.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: Yay. And for me, you can follow my podcast anywhere
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. Please give it a great review
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: five stars if you will. Also, you can pop on
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: over to patreon dot com slash Drama Darling for video
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: and add free episodes, and at meet Amy Phillips and
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: Drama Darling Show, both on Instagram. All right, bye guys,
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: Bye my liste eh y