Latest / Guy Football Focus with Guy Haberman / 49ers Roundtable with MATT BARROWS and NICK WAGONER on Aiyuk, Saleh, Playoffs + more

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49ers Roundtable with MATT BARROWS and NICK WAGONER on Aiyuk, Saleh, Playoffs + more · Guy Football Focus with Guy Haberman

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey guys, guys here, really good show today, ESPN's Nick Wagner and Matt Barrows of the athletic together.
0:10
[SPEAKER_00]: They both cover the 49ers and do an awesome job to the best in the NFL.
0:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I also love Matt's podcast with Tim Kawakami, 49ers plus minus, you can go check out that podcast and the YouTube channel.
0:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And Nick does great work, I think, some of both of them really Nick on X will tweet some of the most detailed stuff, both practice and game-related, both are so observant and insightful that I wanted to have them on together just because I thought it'd be fun to do something a little different here as we hit the buy.
0:42
[SPEAKER_00]: The conversation like this is sponsored.
0:45
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0:52
[SPEAKER_00]: But then I always have three of their last four games are at home.
0:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But these conversations are also sponsored by Puesto, so I appreciate Puesto doing that and making it possible for guests to come on and get something in exchange for their time, which I think is important.
1:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're going to the United States, Titans Game in two weeks,
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1:59
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, awesome.
2:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what can you say?
2:01
[SPEAKER_00]: They're awesome.
2:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And the vibe of the place is great.
2:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So go watch games.
2:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Hang out with the boys on a Saturday, business lunch at a Wednesday, date night on a Friday.
2:09
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do it all.
2:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Watch games there.
2:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Hang out.
2:13
[SPEAKER_00]: and enjoy.
2:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So thanks to Presto for bringing us this conversation.
2:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks to Matt Barrows and Nick Wagner for doing it.
2:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that there's a lot here you're going to like.
2:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I uke predictions and Robert Sala predictions and the future season, how it's going to play out on the future season, the rest of the season, how it's going to play out for the 49ers.
2:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Good one.
2:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Jennings, be back.
2:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And more.
2:37
[SPEAKER_00]: and more.
2:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So here we go.
2:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Met Burrows, Nick Wagner, to Awesome Guys, and the Make for Good Podcast.
2:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Here we go.
2:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Matt is free to use this on his 40 matters plus minus podcast.
2:47
[SPEAKER_00]: YouTube channel, if you want, we'll see if it rises to the level of his YouTube content.
2:52
[SPEAKER_02]: But I have to run that by my partner.
2:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, as you know, he's got, he's a little bit funny to me.
2:59
[SPEAKER_00]: He lets you do whatever you want.
3:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
3:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So I know what it's like to live under a
3:07
[SPEAKER_00]: you know it's interesting we were just talking before we started and because the night is around a by it's a different week but it's so late in the season that Nick you were saying you you know you're keeping a track of playoffs and all that kind of thing and I want to start just kind of big picture on the nighters and I think that the bears to me are kind of an example of
3:24
[SPEAKER_00]: the way we look at a team late in the year, that's playing well that we didn't expect to be good, and you start thinking about like, can I reframe my expectation for a team that I thought, oh, if they were to make the playoffs that'd be nice, and now all of a sudden they're the onesy, could they actually be a championship contender, could they win the NFC?
3:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anyone's maybe outside of Chicago talking about the bears that way, but if you're the bears, you're thinking that way.
3:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think similarly, the nighters are kind of, we have to reframe, we wondered would they be a contender early?
3:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Warner and Boast had got hurt, so we said, no, they can't be.
4:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And now, I'm not going to say contender, but like, I do think we have to kind of look at the NFC and go, wait a second.
4:06
[SPEAKER_00]: If this team keeps winning, what is their first round matchup?
4:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Gonna be if they're in the playoffs?
4:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it gonna be shit?
4:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it gonna be something favorable?
4:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Where can they go?
4:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So as we're in December, I thought I would start and Matt's new to the channel,
4:21
[SPEAKER_00]: podcast.
4:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So metal start with you like we're are how are you looking at the 49ers here in the last month of the season?
4:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, selfishly the only place I don't want to go is Philadelphia in the playoffs because the Philly fans and Nick can attest to this are unparalleled in terms of the animosity and the ones in the back row right next to the
4:47
[SPEAKER_02]: the the media room don't watch the game.
4:49
[SPEAKER_02]: They just turn around and like pound on the glass and point at you and spit and do all sorts of things.
4:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So I want to avoid Philadelphia at all costs.
4:59
[SPEAKER_02]: We at the athletic we have a sort of a prognostication to play off a tool where you can kind of plug in various scenarios and right now it says that.
5:09
[SPEAKER_02]: number 49ers have a 91% chance of making the playoffs in a 10% chance of getting the number one seed.
5:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the number one seed getting a buy that all hinges on them, winning out.
5:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they had to run the table for that to happen.
5:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and it's possible that it happens.
5:30
[SPEAKER_02]: They're on the roll right now.
5:32
[SPEAKER_02]: But, um,
5:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I would say that while a card is probably the best scenario for them and the most realistic scenario, which puts them on the road in week one to either the, you know, NFC East winner, the NFC North winner and the NFC South winner.
5:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me lay out a scenario that I don't think is that implausible.
6:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's necessarily likely, but I don't think it's that implausible, which is
6:05
[SPEAKER_01]: The Niners do win the next three games, so they play Tennessee.
6:09
[SPEAKER_01]: They play at Indianapolis, which is struggling and has a quarterback who's playing on one leg.
6:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they play the Bears at home on Sunday night, the Bears.
6:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I think are pretty good, but also if you look at like strength of victory and some of the things they are, you know, kind of got fat and happy on bad schedules.
6:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is true, the Niners and also a lot of other teams in the NFL, including the Patriots too.
6:30
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not that outrageous to think
6:33
[SPEAKER_01]: that we could get 2019 final week of the season, Seattle 49ers redo for the number one seed in the NFC.
6:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, it's not that ridiculous if you really go through and look at it because those are the themes I think Seattle is in a good position to continue to win.
6:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually think Seattle is a little better than the Rams meet personally.
6:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they're both very good, maybe the two best teams in the conference, but there is a scenario in which that could happen.
7:01
[SPEAKER_01]: The Niners, we need to see them continue to string.
7:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Whenst together, they should certainly beat Tennessee.
7:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we would all agree on that.
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Indianapolis and Chicago, it's me are a little bit more toss-up situations.
7:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But I definitely sit here thinking, if they get a little healthier on defense, which they're hoping to get Tainabathune, Eater Grossmottos, I know these are not big household names, but
7:23
[SPEAKER_01]: guys that make them better, certainly against the run, which is going to have to be a significant factor in that Indianapolis and Chicago games.
7:31
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to need to get the run defense straight down.
7:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But if they can do that, they have a chance to at least be in that position to play Seattle for the number one seed, which, again, I don't know that it's likely, but I think there's at least a possibility of that scenario playing out, which would be a whole lot of fun this time in San Francisco
7:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the Rams losing to Carolina really open the door for that scenario, right?
7:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
7:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Rams in Seattle play again here.
8:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, is it next, uh, not a weekend, but that's a week, a week 16, maybe?
8:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's a, that's a huge game.
8:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I know if you look at the schedules, the Rams and the C.O.X.
8:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Neither of them has a lot of tough games left.
8:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Seattle has Detroit still, maybe.
8:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, if my memory serves Gettles got, um, Atlanta, Indy Rans Carolina Carolina Carolina.
8:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
8:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and the rams have so show me the rams.
8:29
[SPEAKER_01]: This is great.
8:29
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got the joy to do it.
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: The rams have the joy to do it.
8:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew one of them had the joy.
8:33
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
8:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, the rams, the ram's schedule that those the lines and seehawks game, big pivot points.
8:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, you look at the seehawks and and maybe that Carolina game and the rams game.
8:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, not out of the question that that's an
8:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's a steaming hot take to say Seattle's better than L.A.
8:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Personally, if I were the niders, I'd rather play Seattle than L.A.
8:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know staff, you know, Stafford always has.
9:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
9:02
[SPEAKER_00]: He can throw two picks against you, but to me, he's the guy that can single handedly and Devante and Puka.
9:10
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't they don't do the Tush push in LA, but they get down to the one of the two yard line.
9:13
[SPEAKER_00]: They run that little whatever they call it, we did it again, it's a little rub, it's automatic.
9:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, playing in Seattle's tough and it's been a long time.
9:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know Matt break the tie, we're going on that.
9:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the 49ers had no answers for those three tight-end sets that the ram is we're running.
9:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So, they would have trouble with that.
9:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that they would rather play the C-LOX, just I think they'd rather play.
9:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Sam Darnold versus Miss Dapper.
9:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it boils down to that.
9:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I was speaking more big picture.
9:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I think is the better team.
9:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Not necessarily the better matchup for the 49ers.
9:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And certainly the quarterback factor would make the Rams a lot scarier, especially you don't want off.
9:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the stocks are more well rounded team overall is my
10:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Nick made a good point that two of the upcoming opponents and the Titans aren't one of them have good ground games really good ground games There's in the cults in the C-Hawks a little bit less than that and the 49ers despite winning these last two games have allowed a lot of rushing yards or or good averages by the opponent
10:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the Panthers runners were over five.
10:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Judd Kings was what over four on Sunday, Dylan Samson and another rookie was over five.
10:37
[SPEAKER_02]: They've gotten out to leads in some of these games and they've gotten really nice help from their special teams, which has helped them win.
10:45
[SPEAKER_02]: But I haven't seen them since that second Rams game.
10:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess I think that was week 10.
10:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, maybe there were a couple of decent run defense games in there, but, you know, the ramps through all over them, I just mentioned the three tied in sets, I felt like they could have run all of them too, if they had just chosen to do that.
11:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Kyron Williams could have gotten 150 yards that game.
11:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, that to me is the big weakness heading into this final month and then should they make the playoffs.
11:20
[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to play a team that can run the ball.
11:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So that would be where I would be concerned if I were 49ers or 49ers fans, I don't know what really they can do about it at this point.
11:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that obviously the last chance to really do something about it was the trade deadline
11:39
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of sat on their hands at that point.
11:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought for sure you're going to suggest calling Evan Anderson out barrels.
11:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say, maybe you mentioned goal line stands.
11:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, you know, just get triggering a lot of come in for, you know, one game, you know, for all times sake.
11:59
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got some important business to handle a lot of his own there, but yeah, no, I mean, I think the Cleveland game was a great example of it because it was so obvious that I know, I said, I'm going to say this like it's the easiest thing in the world to do, but like just stop the run.
12:13
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to beat you.
12:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And they couldn't do it for the whole first half.
12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Shiver Sanders, you know, the numbers looked okay, but it was a lot of screen game.
12:21
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a lot of short game.
12:23
[SPEAKER_01]: They're what?
12:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And until that touchdown pass, right at the end of the half, which credit they made to play.
12:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, the Niners at that point are just trying to stop the run, because it was a two minute drill.
12:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And basically, and the Browns are running the ball.
12:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, they don't believe that shit or could throw the ball down the field.
12:39
[SPEAKER_01]: The Niners don't believe that shit or could throw the ball down the field.
12:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Put him in position where he has to get him into third and long obvious passing situations.
12:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And they didn't do it until the second half.
12:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And we all saw what happened when they finally did.
12:50
[SPEAKER_01]: He was going to hold onto the ball.
12:51
[SPEAKER_01]: He was going to take sex.
12:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the past rush wasn't that good.
12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But the pressure numbers were good.
12:57
[SPEAKER_01]: and it was because she knows back their pat in the ball and and that's not going to get sure that is just a rookie quarterback situation till and Gabriel will probably be in a similar situation.
13:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is is just as simple as that, but teams like Carolina and the Arab sorry, Indianapolis and the bears, they're going to keep running it.
13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to keep doing it and they also have at least the weapons in the quarterback who can make you pay if you're not being
13:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm with you.
13:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I like the time, if Caleb Williams times the time to throw increases.
13:32
[SPEAKER_00]: He can he can make plays in those situations that most guys can make like I thought Shoulder not that we're gonna go off on a Shoulder thing.
13:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was fine like if he was if his name was Matt Wagner with no hype Brown's hands should be like hey, we might have something.
13:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's let this guy develop and let's take some time But in his bubble, you know, just in that bubble that that can't happen, but you see Matt Wagner's arm I got a can in that way
14:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and what should do or was dealing with a fugitive, they tough win too.
14:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't I don't know.
14:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, these maybe maybe Josh Allen does okay in that win, but nobody else does.
14:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But it does open the door to talk about Brock.
14:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think you go back to the beginning of the year.
14:16
[SPEAKER_00]: There's two ways to look at the schedule.
14:18
[SPEAKER_00]: One is the schedule, and one is the quarterback matchup in every game.
14:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a little, it's fun to do because the quarterbacks don't actually, they're not on the field at the same time.
14:27
[SPEAKER_00]: But I thought, to me that was a part of what was a big game with the Browns game was just, if the Niners were to have lost that game.
14:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It might have meant that Shidorah Sanders played better than Brock Perry, and that would have been bad for the Brock Perry air quotes, but not air quotes discourse.
14:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Like every quarterback gets evaluated forever, sand those tears come out every year, and guys move around, including Matthew Stafford.
14:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So no one's Jared golf, nobody's immune to this.
14:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And down the stretch, you would think, come into the year, should Brock Perti outplay the four guys the Niners have left on their schedule.
15:03
[SPEAKER_00]: The answers, yes, even though it's not exactly that easy, you're playing different defenses.
15:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But Nick, where are you with Brock right now?
15:12
[SPEAKER_00]: The Carolina game was bad.
15:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of people, particularly when Brock plays on national TV, throws three picks in the first half against a bad Carolina team, that really gets your attention.
15:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, to watch him run around and make plays against Cleveland, and it looks like maybe the foot's okay, where are you with him right now at the end of the year?
15:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I thought he played really well, and it's funny because that's one of those classic, like this, if you just look at the box score, it doesn't necessarily show you that he played really well, but he played the exact perfect game or the, that shouldn't say perfect.
15:46
[SPEAKER_01]: He played the type of perfect game they needed him to play.
15:49
[SPEAKER_01]: in that situation, just given the circumstances, given the wind, given the talented defense on the other side, given what Jim Schwartz has done traditionally against the 49ers and against Kyle Shannahan's offenses in particular.
16:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And so going into that game, it definitely felt like
16:07
[SPEAKER_01]: make fewer mistakes and win the game.
16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And, I mean, 2023, you talked to guys in the locker room about that game that we were there were here for that game last week.
16:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were saying that, like, it was one of those things, like, look, every team is going to go into every game saying we don't want to turn the ball over, we want to get takeaways, right?
16:23
[SPEAKER_01]: We get that, right?
16:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But I asked pretty after the game, I said, understanding that this is always an objective going into these games.
16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: how much even more was that emphasize given the conditions given the opponent given what their offense is and what their defense is and he's flat out said like yeah like it was that's why you see broke pretty what do you have seven throwaways bear something like that in that game like
16:48
[SPEAKER_01]: that's a good play because it gives them another down and it's not giving them a short field.
16:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you look at it from the other side and a team like the Browns that has three wins, they have three wins because they are the team that makes those mistakes.
16:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So just don't be that team and you win the game.
17:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think I think a lot of it that we fall into with this Brock party discourse guy and you and I've talked about this before is is
17:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You fall into this idea of because he's making so much money now, or whatever, or where you want to rank, and he's got to elevate this team, and they've got to put up 40 points a week, and sometimes the conditions don't allow for that, sometimes you don't need to do that, and that game the other day was a good example of that.
17:30
[SPEAKER_01]: for the rest of the year into these games as opposed to if he doesn't throw for 300 yards and 4 touchdowns but no picks then it's not a good enough game like that needs to be what the discussion is and honestly if you look around the league right now guy you and I have definitely talked about this in this year.
17:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how many really truly good teams there are out there like really elite teams.
17:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think it's as wide open as it's been in a long time and a lot of it is going to come down to just hand your quarterback, not make back breaking mistakes and make plays in those kind of key moments where it's coming down to a player to this deciding the game.
18:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I thought it was, you know, just a really smart game from RockPerry.
18:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly what you want from your franchise quarterback.
18:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned throwaway.
18:18
[SPEAKER_02]: He had seven throwaways in that game.
18:19
[SPEAKER_02]: He had 11 throwaways all last season.
18:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's a guy that doesn't like to throw the ball away.
18:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was the critique coming out of the Panthers game is that he had that gunsling attitude,
18:36
[SPEAKER_02]: a cult 45 on his holster and those two things don't match up sometimes.
18:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, what I wonder about him is he's consistently said that, you know, the toe is better.
18:51
[SPEAKER_02]: way better than it was, you know, we went into week four against the Jaguars, but it's not 100%.
18:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's affecting him on his runs in his kind of escape ability, which he showed a lot in Cleveland, and then he had the quarterback keeper, where he, by the way, he baked out two edge players, not just one, which is rare for that play.
19:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It had Miles Sanders, I mean,
19:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Miles Garrett and then a safety were both on that edge and he got around both of them.
19:26
[SPEAKER_02]: But my point is that he is very much a
19:31
[SPEAKER_02]: lower half of his body thrower.
19:34
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got strong legs.
19:37
[SPEAKER_02]: He takes great pride in his quads and the other clawed guys in the locker room and the folks that are having taken note of that.
19:49
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't have the biggest arm.
19:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So he needs to kind of plant his feet in the ground.
19:54
[SPEAKER_02]: and then rotate, and that's how he generates his zip.
20:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I gotta imagine that when one of those pieces is compromised, like a big toe, that they're always compromised as well.
20:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that has to be a part of it.
20:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I can almost guarantee you that when Nick and I are in the locker room on locker room, clean out day, and we say, hey, Brock, now that the season's over,
20:23
[SPEAKER_02]: What was the total really like what was what aspect of the game was it really affecting you?
20:29
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what he's going to say is planting the foot, planting both feet in the ground and throwing like he has to throw.
20:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Not a huge guy, not a huge arm.
20:39
[SPEAKER_02]: He needs to generate that power from the ground up and I think the toe is probably going to be what it's all said and done,
20:52
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's a good point like you look at like generating power with the ground like roaring macaroys not the biggest guy in the world but he hits it as far as anybody on the PGA tour and that's because that's how he's generating torque and doing all those things and rock is already even kind of alluded to that.
21:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, especially in that Carolina game, like saying that he wasn't able to drive the ball as well as he wanted and it wasn't because of not planning speed, he said specifically like I got to get my feet in the ground and and make a throw particularly, you know, on the one where he's like running and he's like,
21:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to stop myself and set and throw that ball so that he can drive it.
21:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So that I think is it's a barrels point, a huge part of how the rest of this season plays out.
21:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing I would factor in here is that escape ability.
21:36
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not a knock on Mac Jones.
21:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Mac Jones played very well.
21:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how many sacks you would have taken in that game that was just played the other day.
21:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Because
21:45
[SPEAKER_01]: the 49ers were 11 of 17 on third down.
21:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So those throwaways are at least getting the numbers and other down in which often they were converting those into first downs.
21:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't happen if property is taking sex and there it's third in 26 or whatever.
22:02
[SPEAKER_01]: or if he's throwing a pick obviously or something to that effect.
22:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So that is, those are kind of like the little hidden things within a game that doesn't look like a big deal when you just look statistically, but in terms of how it plays out, that stuff matters a whole lot.
22:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And it really matters a whole lot in this type of a season where I think so much is up for grabs because there's just not a juggernaut out there that's going to blow people off the field more often than not.
22:33
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
22:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead, man.
22:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm sorry.
22:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say, um, I also don't think that the 49ers were going to call a read option run for Macchones at the two yard line on on third and goal there.
22:45
[SPEAKER_00]: What have been a hell of a call?
22:46
[SPEAKER_00]: What have been a hell of a, what have surprised a lot of people?
22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's surprise everybody.
22:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought, yeah, I thought it was one of Kyle's inspired calls and you know, I thought even watching on TV, he looked
22:58
[SPEAKER_00]: prepared for the battle or like he looked.
23:01
[SPEAKER_00]: He was calm after that first punt to start the game.
23:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought he was prepared for it to be a challenge.
23:07
[SPEAKER_00]: There were several plays where it looked like the Brown's defense note was coming and it felt like Kyle kept his cool.
23:14
[SPEAKER_00]: If we have time, I want to get to two more quick things, but I guess one of them was Kyle.
23:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I do want to ask about Iyuk and wherever you guys want to go, I mean, I thought about it a lot lately.
23:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's so
23:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was in, to me, I felt like paying him.
23:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I understood paying him.
23:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I supported it because he was at the time, I haven't looked in a year, but he was at the time, you guys might know off top.
23:38
[SPEAKER_00]: You're head like, they're second or third youngest player on offense, right?
23:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So in other words, projecting out, he projected to be the guy that would play with Brock the longest.
23:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It hasn't gone well.
23:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Were there, have there been any missteps by the Niners?
23:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And is there anything you think they regret?
23:56
[SPEAKER_00]: in some ways was it destined to get to where it is right now with Brandon I.
24:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You particularly once he got hurt and couldn't play as well his way back in.
24:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So a whole idea of getting that deal done quickly, you know, back in March April of of 24.
24:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know that they started the negotiations then, but their negotiations never goes smoothly.
24:22
[SPEAKER_02]: They're always contentious, and they always last a while.
24:26
[SPEAKER_02]: But if they had gotten that done early, they probably would have kind of
24:30
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, better around the same number, I don't think that there would have been all this animus that you feel on both sides right now.
24:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, that's, and when you ask, you know, what could they have done differently?
24:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's the answer.
24:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, maybe we'll talk about this in your next question, but I think that they really have missed him these last, this last year and half.
24:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's really not a lot of speed at why receiver.
24:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, there's really not a lot of, you know, downfield passing of adventure to George Kittle.
25:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so, um, if they move on from Brandon IU, they have to find Brandon IU.
25:13
[SPEAKER_02]: They have to find somebody else that can do those things because, um, no one has not written.
25:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, I've got about to say no one has consistently done it for the 49ers and Ricky Piersoul was great in the first four games, he's still kind of finding his feet and everybody knows what happened last year.
25:34
[SPEAKER_02]: He got good as the year went on, but it's just, you know, putting those games together for him is the challenge.
25:42
[SPEAKER_01]: guy, I think you said the phrase like do you think we were always destined to get here with Brendan and I you and I think my answer to that is yes.
25:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I don't know if it would have been right now.
25:53
[SPEAKER_01]: If let's say they had done what Barros suggested, which is paid him earlier.
25:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that would have satisfied things for a longer period of time.
26:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just think that there has just been increasingly erratic.
26:06
[SPEAKER_01]: behavior for lack of a better term from from brain and I you can and I think it even predates getting the contract done or the contract negotiations, you know you had after the Super Bowl some of the you know his him being upset with the usage and not getting the ball and things like that.
26:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think that it it's just
26:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think they don't know necessarily how to get through to him.
26:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure anyone does right now, at least in the 49ers building.
26:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that we were always probably going to head towards some sort of a divorce here.
26:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you could say they should have just gone ahead and pulled the trigger on the trade with the Steelers last year.
26:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, that's an easy to say in hindsight.
26:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I think their hope was that he was going to play and play well after signing the contract.
26:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that even after signing the contract,
26:52
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a enough discord between the team and him that took place.
26:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Even after signing, like, you know, money solves all problems.
27:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And not necessarily, I think there was enough discord there that their hope was.
27:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is from conversations with people, just in the building that that haven't says in this matter, I think there was hope that he would rebuild or increase his trade value by playing after signing that contract.
27:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And the way the contract was designed.
27:19
[SPEAKER_01]: that if he had done that, they could have then gotten the first ground pick or whatever it is that they really wanted for him in the off season.
27:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So even if he had played well last year and not gotten hurt, I think there was a good chance they would have shocked him and traded him this off.
27:33
[SPEAKER_01]: This past off season.
27:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I do believe that that was in play as an option.
27:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Now again,
27:38
[SPEAKER_01]: as we've seen with the Jimmy Garoppolo situation and other situations over there as you can't rule anything out and I'm not going to sit here and say there's no chance that Brandon won't be back next year.
27:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I would be surprised but again I think a lot of people would have said they thought he was gone before he signed the contract so I just think at the end of the day
27:56
[SPEAKER_01]: part of the reason that this all happened at the 49ers ended up signing him despite the contentious negotiations and all the things that took place in it.
28:03
[SPEAKER_01]: To your point guy about his age, 49ers were in a position right now where they are transitioning from one nucleus of superstars to the next.
28:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And they knew who this group is and they know who the bridge guys are who are going to be around the Nick Boses the Fred Wonders who have are still kind of in their prime.
28:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But they don't know a lot of the names in that next nucleus.
28:24
[SPEAKER_01]: They know Brock Perti, obviously.
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: They know Dianne the Duralinore and then questions across the board.
28:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that they they felt like you could be one of those guys.
28:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was kind of quickly proven that maybe they just can't rely on him to be one of those guys.
28:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's crazy because I, I don't know, a few weeks ago, I'm like, you know, maybe you should if things go south, maybe you do just trade on Jennings get something for it turns out he's the best receiver.
28:54
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Ricky Pierce all was their best receiver when he was healthy to barrels point, but like Nick, he's there.
28:58
[SPEAKER_00]: he's got to go.
28:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess he's their best receiver.
29:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's crazy.
29:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But that location there.
29:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And they could be replacing their two best receivers this off season.
29:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and, and I think the question you then ask is is there's no one getting his come back into play to return to the 49ers, which a month ago, I would have said probably not.
29:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would say that he's doing well enough that you, again, you don't want to create another void that you have to fill, but he's not doing well enough that he's going to
29:28
[SPEAKER_01]: plus 25 million dollar a year contract from another team.
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't think anyway, so maybe the combination of all of these things happening have led to a scenario in which they would bring him back.
29:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And to my knowledge, I don't think Kyle Shanahan has grown tired of Joanne Jennings in any way.
29:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there's any sort of feeling toward him of like,
29:49
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, animus based on what happened with him in his contract situation.
29:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe that then becomes a conversation where it's, hey, you know, you can sign in it's still a sizable contract, but it's not nearly a sizable, is Brandon and I you can bring you on Jennings back and then still have money left over to use on other people.
30:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that is a possibility.
30:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that, but there are a lot of kind of spin offs to the Brandon and I you situation that I think are interesting when you look at the future
30:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I think this is going to be an increasingly asked question about Joanne Jennings coming back because I think he's getting healthier and healthier and he's going to be more and more effective over these last four games.
30:32
[SPEAKER_02]: He's going to look like Joanne Jennings from last year and people are going to ask, okay, well if I you could go on, they need to have somebody reliable coming back.
30:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that that, you know, probably will increase
30:50
[SPEAKER_02]: who on Jennings feels like he's washed his hands of, I mean, they negotiated during the summer and didn't get anything.
30:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know if there's bad blood there, whether he's just so eager to test his worth on the open market, I agree with Nick.
31:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what he's going to get at this point.
31:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, is he 30 years old yet?
31:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I forget how old he is.
31:13
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the 28, I think.
31:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I mean, he's still, he's never been a speed guy, so it's not like you're worried about him losing that component, but yeah, I mean, I still think that it's going to be, and I guess the 49ers do this every year if you're going to be wide receiver or defensive and in the first round and then whichever one they don't pick is going to be the second round pick and that's going to be part of their game plan moving forward.
31:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that they ever want to get into this situation again with white receivers.
31:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So, their new approach is going to be a threat to them in the first round, so we get that fifth year option, then they have just a crazy, productive contract year.
32:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Then we say, thanks.
32:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks a lot for your contribution.
32:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you later, and then they do the whole process over again.
32:14
[SPEAKER_00]: To the point boroughs, I heard they really like Tetsarola McMillan, and that that was not.
32:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I know Kyle told his family.
32:24
[SPEAKER_00]: He's light up when he was asked about him.
32:26
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
32:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did.
32:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember hearing that after the trip to meet, only confirmed what I had heard kind of after the draft that I know Kyle told his family we got our guy.
32:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think they were looking around to see is there anywhere we can get up to get Teteroa.
32:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, obviously didn't happen.
32:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and, you know, the shame of of of the Watkins pick, the verse is that we don't know.
32:45
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't know going into year two with him.
32:47
[SPEAKER_00]: How much of a contributor he can be and Cowang is, okay, Barrow's, I think has a flight to Cabo to catch here next.
32:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So we can just go without them if you want.
32:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't want to ask you about the NFL coach of the year odds.
33:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to ask.
33:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that I saw somebody asked burrows in his mail bag about gym shorts.
33:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I have just tell me this, your interest and can be tight.
33:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this a hot take or not?
33:11
[SPEAKER_00]: In a way, I think that Robert Sala coaching this defense if the miners get to the playoffs in a way his head coaching stock.
33:20
[SPEAKER_00]: is improved more from managing this situation than it is if he had Werner and Bosa and had a top five defense.
33:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So I maybe put odds on it.
33:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what are the odds?
33:31
[SPEAKER_00]: What percentage would you give it?
33:34
[SPEAKER_00]: That Robert Sala is back as the 49ers defensive coordinator in 2026.
33:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll say 15% back.
33:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, back.
33:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I, I'll give you any five percent chance he's gone.
33:49
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's that's where that's where I think and I think a couple of things to play here.
33:53
[SPEAKER_01]: One to my understanding Robert saw a very, very much wants to be a head coach again.
33:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think if you look at the landscape right now of coaches available in this cycle or potentially available in the cycle.
34:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not it's not deep.
34:08
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not a lot of names.
34:09
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not a lot of guys that move the needle.
34:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do think that a lot of people give him a little bit of leeway from the jets because it's the jets and we saw what happened there.
34:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But then you see him come and do what he's done here with to your point guy.
34:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of a patchwork group of defenders and have success who all love playing for him and play.
34:32
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, just ferociously through the echo of every whistle to the point where they're getting takeaways and stops at the one yard line and fourth and down and all these like the style that they play where there's nothing I mean statistically that really even stands out but it's other than like points a lot per game is pretty good compared to all the way like way the other metrics would stack up so I think I think those are the kind of primary factors.
34:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think Robert Solow wants to be a little bit more discerning in where his next job would be, given the situation with the jets, but I also think that his desire is to be ahead coach again.
35:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And if that's the case, and let's say there are six or seven openings, which is usually kind of about right.
35:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure there are six or seven other obvious candidates to fill those positions that would leave him on the outside looking in.
35:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not that I think he doesn't wouldn't be happy to be back here.
35:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just that's what he wants.
35:28
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what he's earned and I think he wants another crack at it sooner or later.
35:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And as you guys know,
35:33
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't capitalize when your name is hot and when you're available, sometimes you can go a long time without getting a job if you, if ever, there are, there are candidates out there who have been hot, tried to wait their turn, and then by the time they felt like they're ready, everyone else had already jumped ahead of them.
35:50
[SPEAKER_02]: That would just appoint the 49ers for a lot of reasons.
35:53
[SPEAKER_02]: One is that he needs to be here two straight years.
35:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Nango for them to get that comp pick.
36:02
[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't happen if he's if he's one and done.
36:04
[SPEAKER_02]: You can develop a coach twice apparently.
36:07
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a that's a crazy, a crazy idea.
36:10
[SPEAKER_02]: But right.
36:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's the best scenario for a bad team that it's going to be looking for a head coach and quarterback.
36:19
[SPEAKER_02]: You hire Robert Sala.
36:21
[SPEAKER_02]: He hires Clay Kubiak to run the offense.
36:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You trade for Mac Jones and then in free agency, you pick up Kendrick Bourne.
36:30
[SPEAKER_02]: All of a sudden, you got 10 wounds right there.
36:33
[SPEAKER_02]: That's worth 10 wins alone.
36:36
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all that you're watching.
36:38
[SPEAKER_01]: What's your percentage though, Barros?
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: What's your percentage?
36:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you made a great point.
36:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't really thought about who the other candidates are.
36:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's all going to come down to that.
36:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I always think that teams would rather have an offensive minded head coach because usually,
36:56
[SPEAKER_02]: bad teams are are also looking for a quarterback as well.
36:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So you bring in that duo together.
37:02
[SPEAKER_02]: But the Robert Sala Clay Kubiak combo would be a genius one because you would have that tandem for a little while so that you could get your, you know, developed a quarterback as well.
37:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think we, we've, we've figured it out for all the, the bad teams out there.
37:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry to keep you well percentage on it.
37:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to I'll say 22% there you go bad guy.
37:26
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
37:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Barrows.
37:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright guys I didn't say it to start but but sincerely you are two of my favorites.
37:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I enjoy reading you talking to you always appreciate you sharing insight when I see you at 49ers practice and games I learned from you and you guys are great.
37:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So I know I know people enjoy it and appreciate you making time.
37:46
[SPEAKER_00]: You got it.
37:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having us in congratulations on the on the big edition.
37:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
37:51
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason I'm in the basement right now.
37:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
37:53
[SPEAKER_02]: We noticed some of those wine bottles behind you.
37:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Why are you maybe invite me and Nick over for, you know, a live podcast and we'll break a one-quarter couple of those.
38:05
[SPEAKER_00]: These are all here because I don't I'm not I don't know the first thing about why.
38:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So they just make me and then if somebody comes over they get to open whatever they want.
38:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
38:13
[SPEAKER_01]: The downstairs.
38:14
[SPEAKER_01]: He's neck deep in wine bottles upstairs.
38:16
[SPEAKER_01]: He's neck deep in and milk bottle.
38:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's correct.
38:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for real.
38:21
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, guys.
38:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
38:23
[SPEAKER_00]: See you guys.