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Bottling Lightning: The Fast-Charge & Solid-State Revolutions · Nonsense with cj little and Jeff Parker

• 0:00
  Welcome to Nonsense Season 4, Episode 11, our big story.
• 0:02
  I'm Jeff Parker. I'm CJ.
• 0:04
  Little this time we're looking at Beyond Lithium, the new
• 0:06
  battery tech that just might kill range anxiety.
• 0:09
  Up next. Well, good news, there's plenty
• 0:11
  of other of life's anxieties that we can replace.
• 0:13
  Swap that on in. Right.
• 0:14
  If it's not the ICE cars, then it'll be the ICE agency.
• 0:17
  Some other thing will be giving you anxiety.
• 0:18
  Or the ICE car dealers. I would be very anxious if I
• 0:21
  were a car dealer. Yeah, those guys are really
• 0:23
  hosed. Once you see cars sold direct to
• 0:25
  consumers, that. Changes everything.
• 0:26
  I I don't understand why it's easier to to buy just about
• 0:29
  anything anything else other than a vehicle.
• 0:31
  Especially cars that don't require a ton of maintenance.
• 0:33
  So you're not going to have a huge service deal that you're
• 0:35
  making on the car. Yeah, you sell it direct to the
• 0:37
  consumer, and the thing just runs until you're tired,
• 0:39
  basically, until you're tired of the color on it.
• 0:41
  That's the limiting factor. This thing's going to last a lot
• 0:43
  longer than you think it's going to last.
• 0:45
  If your livelihood is associated with maintaining or or selling
• 0:49
  ICE vehicles, internal combustion engine vehicles, I I
• 0:52
  suggest we talk. This especially extends to
• 0:54
  dealers who just don't want to sell electric cars because
• 0:56
  they're smart enough to know there's no back end service for
• 0:59
  them. Yeah, but they're digging the
• 1:01
  hole for themselves. All right, we're going to talk
• 1:03
  about batteries, we're going to talk about EVs.
• 1:05
  We're going to talk about putting those things together.
• 1:07
  Range anxiety. It's the end of the charging
• 1:09
  weight. New tech promises 10 to 80% in
• 1:12
  minutes. Let's go.
• 1:13
  This is the. Problem with Gen.
• 1:14
  Z tech? It just gets you to the 80% like
• 1:17
  you get to 100. Percent.
• 1:18
  Come on, what gets me to the button where the music is?
• 1:20
  I'll push it 80% of the way. 2026 is the year we stop
• 1:38
  dribbling juice into our batteries.
• 1:40
  Thanks to Flomax. Think about your phone or
• 1:43
  electric car right now. They're powered by sponges
• 1:46
  soaked in flammable liquid. Basically, it's heavy, it's slow
• 1:49
  to charge, and yes, it can catch fire.
• 1:51
  This is why you don't run the marketing department for
• 1:54
  nonsense. Imagine if like the iPhone 7
• 1:56
  soaked in our most flammable liquid yet.
• 1:58
  Like what's wrong with? You, but the solid-state
• 2:01
  revolution is nearly here. We've swapped the liquid for
• 2:04
  salt, ceramic and high tech polymers.
• 2:06
  The result? The triple threat.
• 2:07
  One safety. No liquid means no scary battery
• 2:10
  fires. 2. Speed.
• 2:12
  We're talking about full charges in minutes, not hours. 3
• 2:15
  distance. These batteries are twice as
• 2:17
  dense. That's LA to El Paso on a single
• 2:20
  charge 0. People in life have ever been
• 2:22
  like, you know what I really want to do?
• 2:23
  I want to go from LA to El Paso without stopping.
• 2:25
  I mean, yeah, like, like other opportunities to turn back.
• 2:28
  No one's going, oh, I really want to go straight to El Paso.
• 2:30
  That's really what I want. Now the other way makes sense,
• 2:33
  but I don't think anyone's like. Yeah, so who's winning this
• 2:35
  race? Donut Lab is the wild card.
• 2:37
  Perhaps as soon as this April, their donut battery could hit
• 2:40
  the streets in the Verge TS Ultra Motorcycle.
• 2:43
  They're claiming a 5 minute charge and a lifespan that'll
• 2:45
  last you 270. Years 270.
• 2:49
  Years. That's a battery.
• 2:50
  That's a selling point, yeah. You're buying this for
• 2:52
  generations to come. It's a.
• 2:53
  Battery you can pass down to your children.
• 2:56
  I like putting it in the will. Daddy's old crappy donut battery
• 2:59
  goes in the will. Then there's Quantum Scape.
• 3:02
  Yeah, they're the anode free pioneers.
• 3:04
  Their ceramic tech is being poked and prodded by Volkswagen
• 3:07
  right now, aiming for a 12 minute charge and a 500 mile
• 3:10
  range. OK, hold on.
• 3:11
  I hope you can bring me something with a little more
• 3:13
  confidence because the Donut Lab guys I am extremely cautious
• 3:17
  about. Like they have a motor that they
• 3:18
  released last year that is super interesting.
• 3:20
  I'm gonna say go look at the donut lab motor.
• 3:22
  It works. But their battery no one's seen
• 3:24
  yet. They've given very little
• 3:25
  details like I want it to be true, and I'm not saying it's
• 3:28
  not, but I'm saying they haven't released anything right now.
• 3:30
  So I'm a little. Now.
• 3:31
  Suspect of donut but then you are now saying Oh well OK then
• 3:35
  there's Volkswagen yes the guys that brought you Dieselgate are
• 3:38
  the ones that I want to go test the ceramic tech that sounds
• 3:40
  exactly like it's going to work out just let.
• 3:42
  Me. Finish reading this and then
• 3:43
  we'll discuss. It OK, keep going.
• 3:44
  And there's factorial energy. They've built a quasi
• 3:47
  solid-state battery that's easy to mass produce.
• 3:50
  It's already pushed a Mercedes over 700 miles on one go.
• 3:53
  The liquid battery age is nearly over. solid-state is finally
• 3:57
  close at hand. And now let the fighting begin.
• 3:59
  I've been hearing about solid-state battery now for
• 4:02
  decades and nothing has ever emerged.
• 4:05
  What is different about the solid-state batteries coming
• 4:08
  around? We don't want to.
• 4:08
  Start out on that foot. We're not talking about
• 4:10
  copyright rights. I feel like we're pretty.
• 4:13
  Much aligned on this this. Isn't like you brought up Donut?
• 4:15
  Yeah, I have such mixed feelings about this because when I see
• 4:18
  the presentation, when I hear everything that they're not
• 4:20
  saying, yeah, that people are asking questions, They're not
• 4:22
  getting your suspect. I'm so suspect.
• 4:25
  But then and yet that. Motorcycle motor.
• 4:27
  The hubless wheel motor thing is such a great piece of tech.
• 4:31
  OK, so a couple things. You're talking about The Verge,
• 4:33
  the TS Pro, TS Ultra line. Yeah, those are out.
• 4:37
  You can drive one, you can sign up for a test drive.
• 4:39
  They actually called me for my test drive just before we sat
• 4:41
  down to record this episode. So I'm very intrigued by them.
• 4:44
  I can go. Look at one right now, their
• 4:45
  store is right down the road at my mall, the Century City mall
• 4:48
  has that yeah. It's like there's no chain
• 4:51
  There's it's direct drive yeah, yeah.
• 4:52
  It's cools itself and there's so many good things about this
• 4:55
  engineering that yes it makes me go yeah, everything that seems
• 4:58
  like a scam about that battery. Well, I, I, I think I look with
• 5:01
  that wheel motor and I go, that's pretty impressive hold.
• 5:03
  On now yeah because until they give this and maybe I'll be the
• 5:06
  guy they do this for right maybe I'm such an influencer here on
• 5:09
  nonsense that they'll give me a because what I what I want is to
• 5:12
  take one of those things to ride it all the way down to 0% charge
• 5:15
  it up in 15 minutes or whatever and then go ride it for the 200
• 5:18
  miles or 300 miles that the battery bag gives you.
• 5:21
  We haven't seen that yet. So like right now you're riding
• 5:23
  in a couple blocks and you're seeing it go around.
• 5:25
  That could be there could just be a bunch of Duracell AA
• 5:28
  batteries in this thing. We don't actually know what's in
• 5:30
  it because we have haven't seen the duration.
• 5:32
  So I'm still a little. Suspect the problem is your test
• 5:34
  drive is going to be 7 hours long if you're wanting to drain
• 5:37
  the battery. I got time.
• 5:38
  Let's go. There's a lot to that.
• 5:40
  Straight to El Paso. Well, what you are, but I have a
• 5:42
  superpower on this and that superpower is the the extra sack
• 5:46
  of concrete that is on my frame that goes everywhere I go.
• 5:49
  So that's going to drive that battery down a little faster
• 5:52
  although. You won't even make a dent in
• 5:53
  there, 700. Pounds of torque dents.
• 5:56
  Yeah, £700 feet of torque on this thing, which by the way is
• 6:00
  banana because the. Motor is in the wheel.
• 6:03
  I mean, they're getting this insane torque, OK?
• 6:05
  7 For those that aren't vehicle fanatics or car fanatics, 700 LB
• 6:09
  feet of torque in a vehicle is an insane amount of power.
• 6:12
  This will send the motorcycle flying out from between your
• 6:14
  legs before your body can even start moving.
• 6:17
  My motorcycle has 110th of the amount of torque that this.
• 6:21
  That's about 70 LB feet of torque.
• 6:23
  And that's plenty of torque. No, it's not.
• 6:24
  It's too. Much torque if I kick on the.
• 6:26
  Throttle on that thing, I'm going to shoot a bike out from
• 6:28
  under me. Like it's an insane amount of
• 6:31
  power and this thing has £700 feet of torque by the way, it's
• 6:33
  electric motor, so the torque curve is flat like.
• 6:36
  It has sure a Turk is the amount of power backtrack.
• 6:39
  One second. I want to talk about these some
• 6:40
  of these things in the past. OK, I don't know if you
• 6:42
  remember. Yeah, Fisker.
• 6:43
  Yeah had this whole thing they were selling.
• 6:45
  It was going to be a one minute charge.
• 6:47
  Yeah. Back in 2017, they they
• 6:48
  announced they had this massive breakthrough with solid-state
• 6:51
  batteries that were going to provide 500 miles of range and
• 6:54
  you can charge them in 60 seconds.
• 6:55
  No. And of course, it just never
• 6:57
  happened. Layers of problems.
• 6:59
  That whole company was a layer cake of issues, yeah.
• 7:01
  Henrik Riskier kept saying we're 90% there, we're 90% there.
• 7:04
  Yeah, the final 10% just never. The final 10% is 90% of the
• 7:08
  work. Anyone who's ever worked on
• 7:10
  software knows this. Yeah, there's 100% true.
• 7:13
  Dyson, yes, had the $600 million vacuum card.
• 7:15
  What'd you say? The $600 million Vacuum Card 6.
• 7:17
  $100 million vacuum car because they're a vacuum company, but
• 7:21
  they were going to disrupt the EV market with a high end SUV
• 7:24
  that was going to be powered by. So that is it a car that.
• 7:26
  Sucks this solid-state technology that it had, this
• 7:29
  $90,000,000 acquisition of a startup that made solid-state
• 7:33
  batteries. Yeah, and they claimed they were
• 7:34
  going to have a 600 mile range. And then the whole thing went
• 7:37
  away in 2019 because of course it didn't work.
• 7:40
  Boiler Blue Solutions actually had a solid-state lift metal
• 7:44
  polymer battery that they went into production years ago for
• 7:47
  car sharing fleets in Paris and Singapore.
• 7:50
  And the batteries only worked efficiently when they were
• 7:52
  between 60° and 80°C. Oh, that's which is 140° to
• 7:56
  176°F. Just so you know, you only your
• 7:58
  battery only works when it's really really hot.
• 8:00
  You like boil the water for a cup of tea?
• 8:02
  Like, no, I'm just going to the store.
• 8:03
  Totally, totally. I don't have to Preheat my car,
• 8:06
  which by the way, even with modern or not even with current
• 8:09
  EV tech and many times you do have to Preheat the battery to
• 8:11
  condition, especially for charging.
• 8:12
  That is a thing that is a current a current speed bump of
• 8:15
  our current tech. Normally you aren't preheating
• 8:16
  your battery to 140°. No, no, that's a little extreme.
• 8:20
  I mean especially diesel engines, but even regular ICE
• 8:23
  motors, you'll have to Preheat. If it's like, you know, sub 40°
• 8:26
  below 0, then you've got to Preheat it just to make the the
• 8:29
  oil liquid again. But I feel like that's a problem
• 8:31
  set. Then heat your car up like it's
• 8:33
  like you're baking cookies. Heated the 325 before you go
• 8:35
  anywhere. Let's go back now and talk about
• 8:37
  the Donut Labs battery and let's talk about the batteries that
• 8:40
  are upcoming and what they're promising.
• 8:41
  No toxic materials. It doesn't have cobalt in it,
• 8:44
  doesn't have anything that comes from rare earth.
• 8:46
  There's no lithium, there's no fire risk.
• 8:49
  There's usable temperature ranges from zero to boiling.
• 8:52
  There's no liquid cooling required.
• 8:54
  There's minimal to no swelling. It's a clay like conformity, so
• 8:57
  they can make the thing any shape they want.
• 8:59
  Flexible cell voltage about $130.00 per kilowatt.
• 9:02
  Are these the batteries they're putting in that that T1 mobile
• 9:05
  phone? No, these are the batteries
• 9:06
  they're putting in that motorcycle.
• 9:07
  Oh OK, it sounds similar grift. It might be, we don't know, but
• 9:11
  we're going to find out in April.
• 9:12
  If the motorcycle comes out in April, we're going to we're like
• 9:15
  2 minutes away from knowing if this is real or not.
• 9:17
  You can charge this thing 100,000 times.
• 9:20
  That's 270 years of charging if you charge it every day.
• 9:23
  That is the thing that gives me the most confidence that this is
• 9:27
  real is that they've put a timeline on, you know?
• 9:29
  It's like really quick. And I am presumably, I mean, one
• 9:32
  of the first three people that get one of these things is going
• 9:34
  to immediately tear it down to figure out how it works.
• 9:36
  Everyone's going to want to see. That for sure, of course.
• 9:39
  So I've got to believe these things are going to be coming
• 9:40
  apart very quickly and we're going to know.
• 9:42
  Part of what makes me think it's a big fraud is the fact that
• 9:44
  they are releasing no information.
• 9:46
  They're not telling. There's no paper.
• 9:48
  Yeah, I'm with you. Here's how our tech works.
• 9:50
  But but. Why would you do that?
• 9:51
  Unless you're raising a huge amount of money and you're going
• 9:54
  to rug pull from everybody, I don't know why else you would do
• 9:56
  they've. Already raised their money.
• 9:58
  It's the guy behind the ultra ring.
• 10:00
  The. Ultra Ring, Yeah.
• 10:01
  That that ultra ring. Thing, the one that goes on your
• 10:03
  finger, I want it to exist. I want them to be the ones that
• 10:06
  get this there first. It does seem like there are
• 10:09
  several other manufacturers that are very close like I'm seeing.
• 10:11
  The plan is you're going to see these in production vehicles
• 10:13
  within the next sort of two to three years or so, which is
• 10:17
  really encouraging. I hope these guys disrupt the
• 10:19
  whole market. I want a small team with
• 10:21
  innovators to be the ones that bring this to market first.
• 10:23
  Absolutely. The problem is these things are
• 10:24
  going to be incredibly expensive.
• 10:25
  You know they're going to be expensive.
• 10:26
  You start there? Sure.
• 10:27
  It's much like the doughnut wheel.
• 10:29
  Yeah, there's nothing about that that looks cheap.
• 10:30
  No the. All bearings in that thing have
• 10:32
  to be more than the cost of my car.
• 10:34
  Again, we wouldn't know because they don't even disclose what's
• 10:37
  in them or how they're sealed or like, right?
• 10:39
  But it does look beautiful for sure, right?
• 10:41
  If these guys can continue to do this and push the engineering
• 10:43
  envelope, right, that's super exciting to me.
• 10:45
  I think this is great. It's worth noting existing EV
• 10:48
  tech has come a long way. Like solid-state to me is not
• 10:50
  the end state, but it's the next big jump.
• 10:53
  Explain to people what's different about a solid-state
• 10:54
  battery versus what we have now. Yeah.
• 10:56
  And what we have now, I'm going to unfairly classify everything
• 11:00
  into sort of the same two buckets.
• 11:02
  You've got your what I'll call a classic battery, which is your
• 11:04
  lead acid batteries. This is the go.
• 11:06
  Back in time even farther. Oh, OK.
• 11:07
  What were the very first batteries made out of when we
• 11:09
  first discovered we could make a battery first of all?
• 11:11
  It's amazing how old batteries are.
• 11:14
  Yeah, we sort of got the idea around batteries in the 1700s,
• 11:18
  late 1700s. The first true battery, which
• 11:20
  was just like a bunch of of copper and zinc discs with some
• 11:23
  like brine soaked cloth, was in 1800.
• 11:26
  Don't. Skip over that brine soaked
• 11:28
  cloth. You needed this thing that was
• 11:30
  between the two metals. Yeah, they need a copper.
• 11:32
  You had zinc and you had a grind soap.
• 11:34
  Yes, cloth. Now we just remember that and
• 11:35
  move forward. Go.
• 11:36
  Ahead, if you were to buy any two of those three things from
• 11:39
  Amazon right now, you would be on a watch list like that's how
• 11:42
  far we've come so that was like that was 1800, not 18 hundreds
• 11:46
  1800 we got the first lead acid battery in the mid 1800s around
• 11:51
  1859 and that was a a the first sort of rechargeable lead acid
• 11:55
  battery. That same basic tech is what is
• 11:58
  in your lead acid batteries. And to be clear, this is the one
• 12:00
  that starts your internal combustion engine, not in your
• 12:03
  Tesla or in your EV. Yeah, yeah, yeah, actually is 1,
• 12:05
  but that's for the 12 Volt system.
• 12:07
  But the one that starts your car, the one that we've been
• 12:09
  putting in cars since the 1930s has been this this same basic
• 12:12
  design, it hasn't changed a lot. What is?
• 12:14
  Serving in this case as the brine soaked.
• 12:17
  Cloth Modern lead acid batteries, our AGM absorbent
• 12:21
  glass mats yeah it's like a fiberglass mat that I don't know
• 12:24
  exactly how the thing works, but it's like a fiberglass mat that
• 12:27
  they put in between the the the layers of the.
• 12:28
  Battery still a flammable material.
• 12:30
  Yeah, I mean it's, it's more acidic than than flammable.
• 12:33
  Yes, it will still burn. It can still do bad things,
• 12:35
  yeah, but that's the least of the bad things of current
• 12:37
  batteries. Sure, right.
• 12:38
  You get into lithium ion batteries and these were Sony
• 12:41
  were the guys to 1st commercialize these not that
• 12:43
  long ago, early 1990s of course. And this was really the thing
• 12:46
  that made portable electronics work because before that, your
• 12:49
  only real option was like alkaline batteries, at least
• 12:52
  your own, your only popular commercialized option was
• 12:54
  alkaline batteries. And as Sony pushed more and more
• 12:56
  portable electronics, they pushed for lithium ion
• 12:59
  batteries, especially on things that were power hungry like
• 13:01
  camcorders and and recorders, things like that.
• 13:04
  You saw this like in the early 1990s and the same basic idea.
• 13:08
  Those lithium ion batteries are what you're seeing in EVs today,
• 13:10
  40 ish years later. We're putting all the electrons
• 13:13
  on one side and then they travel through the circuit and they go
• 13:16
  into the other side and that's basically it.
• 13:17
  And then when you recharge the battery, the reverse happen,
• 13:19
  yeah. You throw them back in and
• 13:21
  lithium ion technology has come quite a long way in the last
• 13:24
  30-40 years. Again, there's that thing in the
• 13:26
  middle, there is the brine soaked cloth that is separating
• 13:30
  now two different materials. By the way, the the band that we
• 13:33
  started that does dramatic readings of modern songs we're
• 13:35
  going to call Brine Soaked cloth.
• 13:36
  Just so you know, that's. What I'm calling it, the brine
• 13:39
  soaked cloth is still there. There's still a liquid
• 13:41
  separating these two materials, yes, and that's how the battery
• 13:43
  works. And the difference when you get
• 13:45
  to a solid-state battery, this is what I'm ultimately coming
• 13:47
  to, is you are no longer using a liquid, liquid in between the
• 13:50
  two materials. You're now using either a
• 13:52
  ceramic or a high tech polymer between the two materials.
• 13:55
  And because it's solid, you now don't have the problem of this
• 13:58
  thing being explosive. Yeah, you.
• 14:00
  A lot of the problems go away. They also become a lot more
• 14:01
  stable. They become a little.
• 14:03
  Charge them faster. You can do all kinds of things
• 14:05
  that are so much better. So that's there between a
• 14:06
  solid-state and a non solid-state battery.
• 14:08
  This is why everyone wants to to get to solid-state batteries.
• 14:11
  There's another big problem though with these these common
• 14:14
  lithium ion batteries is not all of them, but most of them use a
• 14:17
  bunch of of materials that aren't lovely.
• 14:20
  They're not lovely for the environment, not lovely to get.
• 14:22
  Specifically cobalt. Talk about cobalt mining and
• 14:24
  talk about lithium. Yeah, cobalt.
• 14:25
  There's nothing wrong with cobalt that you're driving
• 14:27
  around with. The problem is how we get.
• 14:29
  It's how we get it, Yeah. The largest stores of cobalt
• 14:32
  that we currently know of are in the the in Congo.
• 14:36
  Democratic Republic of Congo. The way it's sourced is unknown
• 14:41
  or unclear, and we. Oh, no, it's clear.
• 14:43
  Yeah, there's mines full of children.
• 14:46
  And by the way, when we stay full of kids, we're talking
• 14:47
  about 10s of thousands of children, yes, that are doing
• 14:50
  this mining in. It's a mine.
• 14:52
  It's not like it's pleasant. It's a very terrible experience.
• 14:55
  You're also creating all sorts of byproducts for the
• 14:57
  environment that aren't. Great.
• 14:58
  That are going into their local environment not again yes you
• 15:01
  dragging around to your cobalt battery is not doing anything to
• 15:03
  Los Angeles, CA Yeah it's all happening to them when they're
• 15:06
  doing the mining. It's just, it's just happening
• 15:10
  to them, it's fine. I'm not minimizing that.
• 15:12
  Yeah, I'm just saying if you think driving around with the
• 15:14
  Cobalt battery is causing a problem locally, you don't
• 15:16
  understand what's going. On and also to be clear, we use
• 15:18
  cobalt in a lot of other things. There's cobalt in your ice.
• 15:21
  Car, yes, your ICE car will have like exhaust valves will have it
• 15:23
  turbocharger components will have it in an alloy state of
• 15:26
  course. But if you look at it as a
• 15:28
  percentage of weight, it is far greater of course in batteries
• 15:32
  than it is in the rest of your car.
• 15:33
  So if you get out of the battery in an EV, you've got very little
• 15:36
  left in in the car, especially relative to A to an ICE vehicle.
• 15:39
  So cobalt generally not great and the.
• 15:41
  Democratic Republic of Congo is not the most stable place to buy
• 15:44
  things from, so prices no bounce all over the place.
• 15:47
  Generally, as a general rule, yeah.
• 15:49
  The cobalt in your battery is 25% of the cost of your battery,
• 15:52
  and it's a very small amount of your battery.
• 15:54
  And also we estimate that China controls about 70% of the cobalt
• 15:57
  coming out of Congo. So yeah, they've got a a tight
• 16:00
  control on that. Now there are batteries, modern
• 16:03
  EV batteries that you can currently buy and lots of things
• 16:06
  that don't have cobalt in them. And that's typically the lithium
• 16:08
  iron phosphate. Yeah, batteries which are
• 16:10
  available, you can buy them. I've done conversions on
• 16:12
  vehicles myself. They're relatively light.
• 16:15
  They're relatively energy dense. You can drain them down to 1015%
• 16:18
  without damaging them. They're really.
• 16:20
  Fantastic. A little more expensive.
• 16:21
  What's the difference? Oh, they're a lot more.
• 16:22
  Expensive. Yeah, that's what I thought.
• 16:24
  Then nickel made these cobalts. They are more expensive, not
• 16:26
  significant. Compared to lead acid batteries.
• 16:28
  They are are tremendously more expensive.
• 16:29
  Sure, sure. But you have to, this is a
• 16:32
  digression, but it is worth, if you're thinking about converting
• 16:34
  something that uses lead acid batteries, lithium iron
• 16:36
  phosphate, you do have to do the math of what is actually usable.
• 16:39
  A lead acid battery below 50%, you start to do damage to the
• 16:42
  battery. A lithium iron phosphate battery
• 16:44
  you can takedown to 1015% Sure, sure, sure.
• 16:46
  So you're getting a lot more power out of it that's usable
• 16:48
  compared to a lead acid battery, which roughly speaking kind of
• 16:51
  double S the amount of of value. You're getting out of contrast
• 16:54
  this to a solid-state battery because with a solid-state
• 16:56
  battery, you don't have any of these.
• 16:58
  No, they'll go away 10%, five percent, 80%, whatever your
• 17:01
  thing is. Also, you can charge it at the
• 17:03
  same rate all the way up when you're charging your lithe ion
• 17:06
  batteries. Yeah, you can charge it really,
• 17:08
  really, really fast up to, you know, 70% or so.
• 17:11
  And then you start charging it much, much slower because you
• 17:13
  don't want to go over that magical yes, 90% or whatever it
• 17:16
  is when you. Start.
• 17:17
  You've got to go slow on those lithium ion batteries, kind of
• 17:19
  typically zero to 20%. You're warming the thing up.
• 17:21
  You can't shove. Gotta get into temperature.
• 17:23
  Electrons in it as fast. Your sweet spot is that 20 to
• 17:26
  80% where you can shove it in as fast as possible, right?
• 17:29
  That's what the controller is designed for.
• 17:30
  And then 80 to 100%, you've got to ramp down and slow down.
• 17:33
  It appears again I'm being a little theoretical here because
• 17:36
  we don't have as much production ready commercialized, sure,
• 17:39
  virtually salt 8 batteries, but it appears that they will
• 17:41
  deliver uniform charging across the board, which is amazing if
• 17:44
  that actually so. Cool.
• 17:45
  But before we jump back into salt State batteries, so cool,
• 17:47
  it's worth noting that there have been a lot of advances,
• 17:50
  especially in the past, I'd say decade or so on the existing EV
• 17:53
  batteries. We've seen a couple things that
• 17:55
  are interesting. There's in the US you can get
• 17:57
  about a dozen or so cars today, you can buy 1 today that are
• 18:00
  already on the 800 Volt architecture.
• 18:03
  So that's roughly, yeah, 2X what you're seeing most of the the
• 18:05
  early EVs at. That's charging 20% to 80% in
• 18:08
  about 15 minutes. 10 to 80, yeah, 15 to 20 minutes.
• 18:11
  Yeah, you're right. That's yeah, that and that's the
• 18:13
  most dense one that we know of is the Lucid, the Lucid Air and
• 18:16
  Gravity. That thing you can charge north
• 18:18
  of 300 kilowatts and you can charge that thing to 80% from
• 18:21
  basically empty 10% in 15 to 20 minutes.
• 18:23
  But that that's not the only one.
• 18:24
  That's one that I think most people talk about the ionic from
• 18:27
  Hyundai, both the five and the six yeah they've support 230
• 18:30
  plus kWh charging the the Porsche ticans.
• 18:33
  I believe all of them support 300 plus kilowatt charging.
• 18:36
  Wow the Tesla model threes and wise can do 250 kilowatt.
• 18:39
  So there's lots of options out there now the Tesla, I believe
• 18:41
  is a 400 Volt system. The only 800 Volt Tesla is the
• 18:44
  cyber truck that I know of. OK, but you're you're older in
• 18:46
  time, right? Like even the Ford F-150
• 18:48
  Lightning, which has a massive battery, is still 400 volts, but
• 18:51
  you can shove it in at 150 plus kilowatt hours.
• 18:54
  Yeah, but now contrast this to the like one of the OG EVs, the
• 18:58
  Chevy Bolt. That thing couldn't take more
• 19:00
  than about 55 kilowatts. Sure, if you wanted to get the
• 19:03
  80%, it was a much smaller battery, much smaller car you
• 19:05
  needed. Over an hour needed time right
• 19:06
  it. Was it was you needed much more
• 19:08
  time? It's just interesting to see how
• 19:09
  much it's progressed. So it's not like we're not doing
• 19:12
  anything outside of solid-state batteries.
• 19:13
  There are still great options out there that you can buy today
• 19:16
  that you can charge very, very quickly.
• 19:17
  And the charging infrastructure, especially in dense places like
• 19:20
  California is really coming up to speed.
• 19:22
  You can find these fast DC chargers now fairly handily.
• 19:26
  All my friends who are buying electric cars are waiting for
• 19:28
  the longest range. What's it what?
• 19:30
  Can I go 260 miles? Can I go 300 miles?
• 19:32
  They're all wrong. I don't want to deal with a Evie
• 19:34
  car until I can go 500, you know?
• 19:35
  What they're doing, they're buying the car.
• 19:37
  Dealer propaganda is what they're.
• 19:38
  Doing Yeah, they don't really, Not really.
• 19:40
  Putting two and two together, How often do you drive more than
• 19:43
  100 miles in the course of a day?
• 19:45
  I think we should talk about range anxiety because that is a
• 19:48
  a very common misconception. Most folks think that charging
• 19:51
  takes forever, and let's set aside 800 Volt architecture
• 19:54
  because that really makes it the high.
• 19:56
  End. Sure, that's high end.
• 19:58
  On charge time, but even on a non 800 Volt architecture
• 20:00
  vehicle you're going to get from and it depends on the car, but
• 20:03
  you're going to get from sort of 10 to 80%, which is the typical
• 20:07
  metric that we we sort of think about and use on average in
• 20:09
  about 20 minutes right in a lot of these vehicles.
• 20:11
  Now again, the older ones not so much, but typically you're
• 20:14
  looking like 2025 minutes. You can get this thing up to to
• 20:17
  80%. And what a lot of folks sort of
• 20:19
  miss is they Oh well, I got to get to 100%.
• 20:21
  Two problems. 1 takes a lot longer to get from 80 to 100
• 20:24
  than it does from 20 to 80 plus. You don't want to go to 100 and.
• 20:26
  Plus you don't want to go to 100.
• 20:27
  You actually hurt the, the, the lifespan of the battery.
• 20:29
  The, the adage amongst EV drivers and you sort of figure
• 20:32
  out pretty quickly. And I as a recent convert is
• 20:35
  it's pretty much always faster for you to stop twice and charge
• 20:38
  to 70% than to stop once and wait for a full 100% charge,
• 20:41
  which is somewhat counterintuitive.
• 20:42
  My ICE vehicles, I drive not until they're out of gas, you
• 20:47
  know, on the, on the gauge. I drive until most of the
• 20:49
  reserve is gone. Like once I figured out that
• 20:51
  cars have a 1 1/2, you know, typically a 1 1/2 gallon
• 20:54
  reserve. You get to the E and you've got
• 20:55
  about 50 more miles you can go, sure.
• 20:57
  It drives every one in my vehicle including my spouse.
• 21:00
  Crazy. All the lights are on.
• 21:02
  Like the Audis say 0 miles till empty and then it bings and
• 21:06
  tells you refuel immediately. And I'm like, yeah, but the
• 21:08
  school 10 minutes away, like we'll be fine.
• 21:10
  And she's like, you're an idiot. All right, we have to get out of
• 21:13
  quickly before we do. Have you seen or read anything
• 21:15
  good this last week? Well, I, I'm, I'm always seeing
• 21:18
  and reading things that are lovely.
• 21:19
  Yeah. This especially being a more, a
• 21:21
  more nerdy show, I felt like I want everybody strap on their
• 21:24
  propeller hats because this is another super nerdy
• 21:26
  recommendation. There is this maker on YouTube
• 21:29
  that I recently discovered. His name is Ivan Miranda.
• 21:31
  This guy is my YouTube spirit animal.
• 21:33
  He's into digital fabrication, 3D printing, electronics,
• 21:36
  woodworking, instrument making, metalworking, like really
• 21:39
  anything that's geeky and creative in the makerspace this
• 21:41
  guy's into. And he's, he's certainly one of
• 21:43
  my people. He wanted to achieve something
• 21:45
  as simple as building a clock out of marbles.
• 21:47
  So imagine a clock that tells the time using marbles.
• 21:50
  The entire display of time is made using two different color
• 21:53
  marbles. Is it like a digital display?
• 21:55
  Sort of. So imagine, imagine, I'll put a
• 21:57
  link in the show notes, but imagine tracks that go
• 21:59
  horizontal and think of them as like a, like a, like a dot
• 22:02
  matrix display. And you've got white marbles and
• 22:05
  black marbles and the white little digits.
• 22:07
  It's really cool. And now you want it to refresh
• 22:09
  every minute. Yeah.
• 22:10
  So every minute you want it to dump all those marbles out and
• 22:13
  feed in new marbles to save the time.
• 22:15
  Sounds loud. So you've got to be able to.
• 22:17
  It does. It's super loud, but it but it's
• 22:19
  like a clickety clack like train sort of loud.
• 22:21
  Yeah. You got to double all the
• 22:21
  marbles. You got to collect them, you got
• 22:23
  to sort them, you got to lift them back up and put them all
• 22:25
  in. It's a really neat idea.
• 22:27
  But what's even better than that is that he's documented the
• 22:30
  whole process, right? So the trials and tribulations
• 22:33
  of creating this clock. And it's the best part to just
• 22:35
  watch how he's like constantly improving these things he's
• 22:37
  doing with a 3D printer, you know, on the bench right next to
• 22:40
  him. It's very much like what I
• 22:42
  recommended last week or two weeks ago.
• 22:44
  Paul's bots, the guy who's making, like a lot of the Star
• 22:47
  Wars replica robots. Yeah, and it's very similar to
• 22:50
  that. Sure.
• 22:50
  It's so much fun to watch. You're going to learn a ton.
• 22:53
  And just watching him improve the product is really cool.
• 22:56
  And I'm looking at this going, man, I so desperately want one
• 22:59
  of these things, but I would probably take a baseball bat to
• 23:01
  it within three hours, 'cause it is.
• 23:03
  Oh sure, the sound the. Loudest thing in the world?
• 23:05
  I would imagine, by the way, a spill of beans.
• 23:07
  Does he? Is he successful?
• 23:08
  Does he make the thing and does it work?
• 23:10
  I mean it's always working, but it's always not not working too.
• 23:13
  He's always got to be improving. I mean, it, it's things like,
• 23:16
  hey, I printed these tracks. Every now and again, a marble
• 23:19
  will get stuck. I made it bigger, OK, Now like
• 23:21
  one will jam up here. I put in these metal rods to
• 23:23
  make it run. But like, it's that sort of
• 23:25
  continued improvement that I really love that he's not just
• 23:28
  willing to do that, but able to do it if he was doing this with
• 23:31
  like injection molding from a place overseas.
• 23:33
  Impossible. Sure, it'd be impossible.
• 23:35
  Sure, he does get several good takes of of the clock working
• 23:38
  and it's it's really cool. I got.
• 23:40
  To look at it late Lincoln show notes, Yeah.
• 23:41
  I'll put Lincoln the show notes. How about you?
• 23:42
  What are you since? We've been discussing
• 23:44
  transformative automobile technology.
• 23:46
  I'm recommending Francis Ford Coppola's Tucker the Man and His
• 23:49
  Dream, a vibrant neon soak tribute to the ultimate American
• 23:53
  underdog. Jeff Bridges delivers a high
• 23:55
  octane performance as Preston Tucker, a visionary entrepreneur
• 23:57
  who dared to challenge the Big Three automakers in post World
• 24:01
  War 2 Detroit with his revolutionary Tucker Torpedo.
• 24:04
  He introduced safety features decades ahead of their time,
• 24:07
  like disc brakes and a center swivel headlight packaged in a
• 24:10
  sleek, futuristic frame. However, his Dream collided with
• 24:12
  a wall all of corporate sabotage and political corruption.
• 24:15
  The film is a stylized, fast-paced masterpiece that
• 24:18
  celebrates innovation over bureaucracy.
• 24:20
  It's a bittersweet reminder that while you can crush a company,
• 24:23
  you can't kill a transformative idea.
• 24:25
  Tucker, the man in his dream. Stream it on Philo now.
• 24:28
  Such a great story. It's such a great film.
• 24:30
  I'm I'm I need to rewatch that. Beautifully shot.
• 24:32
  I mean, there's always a lot of folks that just remember the
• 24:35
  swiveling headlight and like, oh, what a terrible idea that
• 24:37
  was. Sure, sure.
• 24:38
  Most common cars basically have an implementation of that right?
• 24:41
  Now we all do it. Yeah, you need that was.
• 24:43
  Really smart. Then it was just hard to execute
• 24:45
  on totally. And now like when I drive out an
• 24:47
  older one of my vehicles that is not of the genre of time when
• 24:51
  they had the side marker lights, I'm like, oh, I can't see over
• 24:53
  there. Oh, that's of course.
• 24:54
  That's kind of. Terrible.
• 24:55
  I'm going to make a small turn here in the dark and there's a
• 24:57
  good chance I'm going to die just.
• 24:59
  I'm good to hope there's not like a baby wolf or a of course,
• 25:03
  like you just hope. Yeah, No.
• 25:05
  Very cool. Great, great recommendation.
• 25:06
  That is the episode. Thank you for joining us for all
• 25:08
  this nonsense. It's really terrible podcast
• 25:10
  from our awful company. This is on the web at Nonsense
• 25:12
  dot Productions. I'm CJ Little.
• 25:15
  I'm Jeff Parker. I love that you laugh now every
• 25:17
  time I say my name like that is that is the best.
• 25:20
  And then stop playing. It's not just I like I I know
• 25:22
  you want to tell me that you're laughing at the space Room, CJ
• 25:25
  in Little, but I just assume you're laughing at my last name
• 25:27
  of Little. That's that's basically I'm
• 25:29
  laughing at the over exaggerated space.
• 25:31
  It's so hard. It's so hard.
• 25:33
  Like I literally can do math in my head easier than I can say my
• 25:37
  name, which really says a lot. If you like this program and
• 25:41
  like hearing how I say my name, yes, please.
• 25:43
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  things done fast and secure your data with its strong AES 256
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  platform. 7 Zip Check it. Out.
• 26:10
  I mean you can run 7 zip on your earbuds if you want to your air
• 26:13
  pods. Because I have so much, I need
• 26:15
  to archive in my ear pods. Yeah, totally.
• 26:17
  I'm gonna archive what I heard yesterday.
• 26:18
  I think it sounds great. I'll be here every Tuesday and
• 26:20
  Thursday mornings. For more nonsense, please join
• 26:22
  us. You bought an electric car and
• 26:36
  you absolutely love it. I love it.
• 26:37
  The day you bought it, short of your wedding and the birth of
• 26:39
  your children, was the best day of your life.
• 26:41
  No, the the day I bought 300 sticks of 128 gig memory three
• 26:46
  months ago before I went forex and price was the best day of my
• 26:49
  life but it didn't happen. This show is now officially too
• 26:51
  nerdy for me. I lost you on the memory, huh.
• 26:55
  The memory is where I lost you all straight downhill from
• 26:58
  there. It's not even complicated
• 26:59
  technology. It's just like, wow.
• 27:01
  We are dorks.