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Can the Constitution Keep Up With Today’s Crazy Politics? · Common Sense Ohio

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  Steve: All right, here we are. commonsenseohio.com.
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  Norm Murdock: Right. And here's the thing, I'm not going to get surprised. I'm going to sell
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  Norm Murdock: can't do your own taxes if you live a complicated life in any way.
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  Steve: Yeah. And then when you get behind, this is what I see. If you're a
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  Steve: you can't pay, you can ask for an extension or you can get on a
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  Steve: payment plan. But the one creditor you don't want is Uncle Sam.
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  Norm Murdock: No, no. He has tools that
• 1:40
  Norm Murdock: would make your average collection agent
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  Norm Murdock: thrilled. Yeah. You know, to be able to attach
• 1:48
  Norm Murdock: Your tax refund, for example. Everything in life, right? You know,
• 1:52
  Norm Murdock: so bad, bad stuff. Anyway, this— today in history, Barack
• 1:56
  Steve: Hussein Obama was nominated. Hmm.
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  Steve: Um, and forever after screwing up our country. I mean,
• 2:04
  Steve: well, you know, whatever. Yeah, it turns out he
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  Norm Murdock: actually is a socialist. You know, another one of
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  Norm Murdock: these, uh, typical situations all over the
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  Norm Murdock: country. We're seeing this where You know,
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  Norm Murdock: candidates run as one thing and then govern in a completely different
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  Norm Murdock: way. And then when society gets even more
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  Norm Murdock: radical, like the DSA has within the Democratic Party, you're
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  Norm Murdock: seeing Hillary and Obama and Schumer, uh,
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  Norm Murdock: just throw in with, uh, well, El-Sayed and,
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  Norm Murdock: and these other whack-a-moles. It's interesting because Hillary and Obama were
• 2:42
  Steve: both Saul Alinsky sort of— Oh yeah.
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  Steve: Followers. Yep. Back in the day. Right. Look up Saul Alinsky if you don't know
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  Steve: what I'm talking about. Absolutely. And here's what's interesting about this.
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  Steve: The DSA's platform: disband the Senate,
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  Steve: change the power structure of the executive branch, pack the court,
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  Steve: and then take over, uh, a House of Representatives and rule by
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  Steve: majority. Like, what could possibly go wrong? Yeah. What's interesting about
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  Steve: this is that I actually saw, and this is going back
• 3:13
  Steve: maybe during Trump's first presidency somewhere,
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  Steve: an interview of Obama. And help me out, listeners, if you can remember,
• 3:22
  Steve: maybe you can remember. He was talking to
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  Steve: somebody. I can't remember who it was. I should have noted this
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  Steve: at the time, but he was talking about
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  Steve: the need for the Senate is now passé. Yeah, sure. Disband the
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  Steve: Senate. Yeah, right. I looked for that recently online and
• 3:42
  Steve: I can't find it. Okay. I can't find it anywhere. Okay. And, uh,
• 3:46
  Steve: I'm, I'm in this debate with a buddy of mine who says, nah, Obama never
• 3:49
  Steve: believed that. I was like, no, he said that in an interview. I remember listening
• 3:51
  Steve: to it and I can't find it. It's been scrubbed. Yeah. Uh, now the
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  Steve: DSA is, it's their mainstream platform. So Obama always had these ideals as
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  Steve: a president. Always did. And dreams of my father. who was
• 4:03
  Norm Murdock: a communist. His father was, you know, like, yeah, you know, he,
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  Norm Murdock: he's implied it. He's now
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  Norm Murdock: completely out, uh, and just,
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  Norm Murdock: you know, on board with the DSA. So, uh,
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  Norm Murdock: yeah. Um, the thing is about having
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  Norm Murdock: 2 senators from every state regardless of size of
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  Norm Murdock: population of course, was to address
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  Norm Murdock: the rule of the mob, the, you know, the, the
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  Norm Murdock: lynch mob. And, you know, whether it's Mary Shelley's
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  Norm Murdock: Frankenstein or, uh, The Scarlet Letter
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  Norm Murdock: by Nathaniel Hawthorne or The Crucible by Norman,
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  Norm Murdock: um, Mailer, you know, whatever you're
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  Norm Murdock: looking at, uh, these stories of
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  Norm Murdock: the majority ruling or the scourge of the
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  Norm Murdock: majority against the minority, where,
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  Norm Murdock: you know, you have somebody who's innocent
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  Norm Murdock: or somebody who's committed something in the view of the majority is
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  Norm Murdock: a sin, and then you crush them. You put them to
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  Norm Murdock: death. You ostracize
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  Norm Murdock: them. You oppress their free speech rights,
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  Norm Murdock: whatever. There's a long history of protecting
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  Norm Murdock: minority populations, and by that I mean
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  Norm Murdock: not just racial or religious, but also
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  Norm Murdock: ideologically minority populations.
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  Steve: Yeah, right. And by equalizing— and that was
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  Norm Murdock: the point of the bicameral legislature, was to have one house
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  Norm Murdock: where all states were equal and another house, the lower
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  Norm Murdock: house, where bigger states have more congresspeople.
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  Norm Murdock: And, and, and that was to address the potential
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  Norm Murdock: mob rule. And now, and now the DSA is in favor of
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  Norm Murdock: mob rule. Because they're right. They're righteous. So it's interesting, if you go
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  Steve: back and read the debates on the Constitution and the founding of our
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  Steve: country, Adams was on our side on this.
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  Steve: John Adams. And I just looked up some of his quotes on this, and he
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  Steve: was adamant about this because, no pun intended, right? Yeah.
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  Steve: Adam about it. He, uh, because he knew that the rich would eventually take over,
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  Steve: the powerful would eventually take over, and it would be the same aut—
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  Steve: aut— autotra— you know what I'm saying? Authoritarian,
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  Steve: uh, government that they were trying to run from. And here's what he says about
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  Steve: it. It's interesting. A single assembly Meaning just the House of Representatives.
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  Norm Murdock: Yeah. Is liable to all the vices, follies, and frailties of an individual,
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  Steve: subject to fits of humor, starts of passion, fights of—
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  Steve: flights of enthusiasm, partialities of prejudice, and consequently
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  Steve: productivity of hasty results and absurd judgment. And all
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  Steve: these errors ought to be corrected and defects supplied by some
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  Steve: controlling power. And it's— and all of what you just
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  Norm Murdock: read, Steve, is amped up even more in the
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  Norm Murdock: age of social media where
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  Norm Murdock: people come to these knee-jerk
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  Norm Murdock: conclusions based on their feelings at that time. What
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  Steve: would've happened during COVID Oh my gosh. Right. I'd
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  Norm Murdock: be in a concentration camp. Jackboots on the ground rounding us up because we didn't
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  Steve: want to get the shot. Because listen to what he says.
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  Steve: Fits of humor, starts of passion, flights of enthusiasm. That's right. Partialities of
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  Steve: prejudice, and consequently productive of hasty
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  Steve: results and absurd judgments. Right. I have
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  Steve: heard it was a well-heeled, I think it was
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  Steve: one of the Ivies law professor, and this is back right before COVID
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  Steve: talking about how we needed to get rid of the Senate. We needed to get
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  Steve: rid of some of these balances of powers, pack the court, because Without all the
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  Steve: power, his party couldn't fix these existential threats
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  Steve: like global warming, world destruction, racism,
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  Steve: white supremacy. As if, one, as if those things all exist
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  Steve: on the level that he's talking about. Right, which they don't. Which they don't. And
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  Steve: 2, that given the proper power, he could fix it with righteous morality that
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  Steve: would not end up corrupt. I mean, it's so insane that these people think this.
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  Norm Murdock: Well, the only reason you even have representative
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  Norm Murdock: democracy is because it's always been
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  Norm Murdock: impractical up until now. Okay, so
• 8:39
  Norm Murdock: here's where I'm going. It's always been impractical
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  Norm Murdock: to ask the people to decide every issue, right? Well, now
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  Norm Murdock: with what, 95% of people or more
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  Norm Murdock: having cell phones, Uh, you have an instant ballot
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  Norm Murdock: means right in your hand. We could— there's no need even
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  Norm Murdock: for the lower house. Mm-hmm. The only reason we have the lower house is
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  Norm Murdock: because, you know, a group of, say, 5,000 citizens back in
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  Norm Murdock: the 1820s or whatever, well, they couldn't all go to DC,
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  Norm Murdock: and, and the founders knew that. So you have a congressional system set up
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  Norm Murdock: where they pick one out of the 5,000 and say, you go to
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  Norm Murdock: DC you represent us and you vote our interests. Yeah.
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  Norm Murdock: But now that we have the technology for you and I to
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  Norm Murdock: individually vote our interests, I mean, you could make an
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  Norm Murdock: argument to dispense with Congress and we'll just have a
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  Norm Murdock: plebiscite on every issue. You know, uh, oh, there's
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  Norm Murdock: been a tragic mass killing, so do we ban guns,
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  Norm Murdock: yes or no? And then instantly people without any analysis, without
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  Norm Murdock: any thinking, without any reference to the Constitution, just say,
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  Norm Murdock: yeah, you know what? Nobody has a need for, you
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  Norm Murdock: know, an AR-15. That sounds like somebody being— So let's just ban it
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  Norm Murdock: right now. Just ban it. Sounds like somebody being productive of hasty results and absurd
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  Steve: judgments. Exactly. That's the point, right? That's the point. Knee-jerk
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  Steve: reactions. Exactly. We all have them. Right. We
• 10:07
  Steve: all see like, holy crap, this is horrible. We should stop this now. And then
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  Steve: you wake up the next day and, all right, well, maybe it's a bit, what
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  Steve: can we do about it? Oh, gee whiz. Because now I read where a
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  Norm Murdock: farmer held off a bunch of bandits
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  Norm Murdock: with his AR-15. He didn't kill any of them, but he arrested a few
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  Norm Murdock: as a citizen and waited for the LEOs to come. Yeah. I
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  Norm Murdock: mean, there's positive uses of it that never get covered in the
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  Norm Murdock: media. But as Adams wrote, under
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  Norm Murdock: the hot glare of the instant satisfaction
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  Norm Murdock: You know, let's go kill Frankenstein and, and, and the, you know,
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  Norm Murdock: and the creature that he made in his lab because we're scared of it.
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  Norm Murdock: Um, you know, that's how— that's if you
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  Norm Murdock: can justify, you know, it's always the ugly thing in the law
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  Norm Murdock: that lead us to these absurd conclusions. If you can
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  Norm Murdock: justify without any trial killing a
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  Norm Murdock: Frankenstein, then you're off and running. You know, why not
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  Norm Murdock: just put me and Steve in prison 'cause we didn't get our COVID shots? There's
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  Steve: a reason we call it mob rule. Mob rule. Right. The lynch mob. It doesn't
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  Norm Murdock: work. And understand, the majority
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  Steve: controls the minority in that. So people, and people confuse this all
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  Steve: the time. Well, we have a democracy. Isn't that how it should be? No, we
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  Steve: have a constitutional republic. We don't have pure democracy where
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  Steve: majority rules. We don't. Right. Not at the federal level. Right. And
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  Steve: not at the state levels. Yeah. At the local levels, at times you do. Yeah.
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  Steve: In my household, it's an authoritarian regime. I'm in
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  Norm Murdock: charge. The democracy stops at the front door. Yeah.
• 11:46
  Norm Murdock: But that's my theory. So there's different types of—
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  Steve: there's different scales of this. Right. And if
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  Steve: you had majority rule on all these issues of the day,
• 11:57
  Steve: think how awry our country would've gone in like slavery
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  Steve: days. Oh, sure. Or Jim Crow days. Sure. Right.
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  Steve: They could have drummed up a majority and just kept Jim Crow in place.
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  Norm Murdock: Right. Yep. Yep. We are a country
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  Norm Murdock: with a philosophy that the individual rights of each
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  Norm Murdock: of us are our own
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  Norm Murdock: search for our own destiny in our own way with our
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  Norm Murdock: own religious or non-religious thoughts.
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  Norm Murdock: the idea of individual freedom
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  Norm Murdock: triumphing over the collective interest
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  Norm Murdock: is the predicate for America. It's that regardless
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  Norm Murdock: of what the majority thinks of you or, or what they
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  Norm Murdock: think of your choices, as long as you don't hurt anybody
• 12:50
  Norm Murdock: else physically, you can do whatever you want. Go
• 12:54
  Steve: be quirky, go be gay, go, go, go, go do
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  Steve: whatever you want to do. Just don't You can't do 2 things.
• 13:02
  Steve: There's a few things you can't do. You can't hurt somebody else by doing
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  Steve: those things, and you can't force somebody else to agree with you. That's
• 13:10
  Norm Murdock: right. You can't do those things. That's right. And as long as you don't do
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  Steve: that, you can go live a life however you want to live, right? Within the
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  Steve: bounds of the law. Right. Yeah. And this is where I always ask
• 13:20
  Steve: people under— this is an interesting question I get. I know we're probably off the
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  Steve: news here, but I am enjoying this. under the Trump
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  Steve: regime or under any of the person you hate the most,
• 13:32
  Steve: Trump, what rights did you lose? Individual rights did
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  Steve: you lose or were even threatened? Yeah. And
• 13:39
  Steve: people always stop and pause. And the only one they always say is, well, he
• 13:43
  Steve: almost overthrew the government with the right to vote or something. I'm like, yeah, no.
• 13:47
  Steve: I mean, even if I gave you that that was an actual attempt, it
• 13:51
  Steve: failed ab initio. It failed immediately. It was never going to— nothing like
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  Steve: that was ever going to happen. Right. Um, it's like his talk about a third
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  Norm Murdock: term. He floats these things almost just—
• 14:03
  Norm Murdock: he's trolling people. But at the individual level, he's never
• 14:06
  Steve: advocated for you not to have the right to
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  Steve: whatever sexual preference you have. Yeah. He's never advocated that you shouldn't be able to
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  Steve: say things. He's never advocated that you shouldn't, uh,
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  Steve: that you shouldn't have the right to bear arms. the other side does it all
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  Steve: the time. Well, again, we're going down this
• 14:25
  Norm Murdock: path, but it is interesting. If I were to make a
• 14:29
  Norm Murdock: list of the truly awful things—
• 14:33
  Norm Murdock: crimes, pogroms, even
• 14:38
  Norm Murdock: like the internment of people of Japanese descent from the West Coast—
• 14:42
  Norm Murdock: if I were to draw up a list of all the really awful things
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  Norm Murdock: that happened in American history, the
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  Norm Murdock: overwhelming number of these awful, awful
• 14:54
  Norm Murdock: government policies and decisions by government would
• 14:58
  Norm Murdock: be on the, quote, liberal side. They're,
• 15:02
  Norm Murdock: they're the ones, they're the administrations that
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  Norm Murdock: got us into more wars, that used
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  Norm Murdock: atomic weapons, that put people in concentration
• 15:13
  Norm Murdock: camps, that were defending slavery, uh,
• 15:17
  Norm Murdock: that founded the Ku Klux Klan. I mean, you could just go down the list.
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  Norm Murdock: It's unbelievable where that
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  Norm Murdock: whole party is. And now we're so
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  Norm Murdock: close to really National Socialism, and
• 15:33
  Norm Murdock: people don't understand that people like El-Sayed, who is
• 15:37
  Norm Murdock: antisemitic, running for Senate in, in, uh, Michigan
• 15:41
  Norm Murdock: with Hasan Piker as his cheerleader. These guys are
• 15:45
  Norm Murdock: anti-Semites who believe in a strong
• 15:49
  Norm Murdock: America, but a socialist America. And I'm like, oh,
• 15:53
  Norm Murdock: I've seen this record before about— like, I've listened to this record
• 15:57
  Norm Murdock: before, like 100 years ago in another very
• 16:00
  Norm Murdock: cultured country where calls to exclude
• 16:04
  Norm Murdock: certain people from the social fabric or
• 16:08
  Norm Murdock: or to blame them for, oh, it's the bankers,
• 16:12
  Norm Murdock: it's the international bankers that are doing this, that, and the other thing.
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  Norm Murdock: It sounds very much the same to me. And it's coming from
• 16:21
  Norm Murdock: so-called liberals. It's coming from the same people that it came from before. Yeah.
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  Steve: And I'm going to disagree on one point. I don't think they want America.
• 16:30
  Steve: Hasan Piker, these people hate America. Well, he hates the current America. That's for sure.
• 16:33
  Steve: They hate America. We deserve 9/11. We're horrible. I mean,
• 16:37
  Steve: you've got El-Sayed now saying, did you hear him
• 16:40
  Steve: compare circumcision to castration? Yeah, right.
• 16:44
  Steve: It's lunacy. It's lunacy. And you got Piker
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  Steve: screaming how horrible America is, that we deserve
• 16:50
  Steve: 9/11. These people don't like the country. They want to change it. As
• 16:53
  Steve: Mr. Obama said, I want to fundamentally change the
• 16:57
  Steve: country. Right. Now, nobody ever, everybody sort of implies that like
• 17:01
  Steve: the evil thing. Well, we're gonna fundamentally change the country. What do you mean by
• 17:04
  Steve: that, Mr. Obama? He means this. Right. He means we're
• 17:08
  Steve: going to just get rid of this and build a country that they want. Now,
• 17:12
  Steve: what's interesting in this, it's all founded in sort of the same
• 17:16
  Steve: flaw, that the human can
• 17:20
  Steve: figure out what's best for everybody else. Right.
• 17:23
  Steve: That I am smarter, I am
• 17:27
  Steve: blessed, I've studied.
• 17:31
  Norm Murdock: I'm special. I'm special. I know the most. But trust
• 17:34
  Steve: me, I even saw some, you know, one of these street
• 17:38
  Steve: journalists interviewing some guy in California. It's like, well, I'm educated. I know this and
• 17:42
  Steve: I know this. And the interviewer's like, what's up? I've been to college. That's what
• 17:46
  Steve: he says. I've been to college. I have 2 degrees. And it sounds like you
• 17:48
  Steve: think you're smarter than the people over there. And he's like, I am. Yeah, there
• 17:51
  Norm Murdock: you go. They think that. Right. They think that. Of course. Which
• 17:55
  Steve: means they know best for you. Right. And it's always this grounding
• 18:00
  Steve: in the self as opposed to something bigger. Right. Right.
• 18:04
  Steve: And if you ground yourself in something bigger and you say, look, I don't know
• 18:07
  Steve: every damn thing, then you don't end up down that
• 18:11
  Steve: path. And what Adams was trying to do was protect us from that.
• 18:16
  Norm Murdock: See, I think so. We're
• 18:20
  Norm Murdock: in sync. I'm projecting and
• 18:24
  Norm Murdock: thinking of what would happen
• 18:29
  Norm Murdock: if a socialist took over. And I'm looking at Mamdani
• 18:35
  Norm Murdock: as a micro laboratory for what he's doing in New York.
• 18:40
  Norm Murdock: And certainly he doesn't believe in a weak government structure for
• 18:44
  Norm Murdock: the city. Not at all. And neither would say AOC
• 18:49
  Norm Murdock: or Bernie or any future socialist
• 18:52
  Norm Murdock: president of this country. I believe they do believe
• 18:57
  Norm Murdock: that they want a strong, even militarily,
• 19:01
  Norm Murdock: United States. But what they would use it for is stuff
• 19:05
  Norm Murdock: like river to the sea. I mean, they would
• 19:09
  Norm Murdock: have a completely different set of strategic goals.
• 19:13
  Norm Murdock: but they certainly want to use force. They want a strong governmental
• 19:17
  Steve: power. Oh yeah. And they would use it on— they would turn the
• 19:21
  Norm Murdock: military against the people even. Of course they would. Just like
• 19:25
  Norm Murdock: good old Schicklgruber did in Germany. What would've happened during
• 19:28
  Steve: COVID Yeah. Just what would've happened? Mass arrests, man. And
• 19:32
  Steve: there's still people out there that agree that that should've happened. That's right. And
• 19:36
  Norm Murdock: still people masking to this day, even doing it as a
• 19:40
  Norm Murdock: symbol of comply with the government. Virtue. We
• 19:43
  Norm Murdock: told you to do this. They were right. And they were
• 19:47
  Norm Murdock: excusing Dr. Fauci, which is his intentions were
• 19:51
  Norm Murdock: pure, which is, they think, absurd.
• 19:55
  Steve: You're a bit older than I am. I didn't grow up in the '60s,
• 19:59
  Steve: '70s counterculture era, but those people, like
• 20:03
  Steve: those true sort of what I'll call the first generation of— Sure. Ben
• 20:07
  Norm Murdock: Jerry's. They never, never would have cottoned to the government
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  Steve: forcing something like that on it. I mean, that was their— like, we're just going
• 20:14
  Steve: to comply and call that virtue, right? It's lunacy. Well, think of the
• 20:17
  Norm Murdock: inconsistency. So during COVID the same people who
• 20:21
  Norm Murdock: were telling us it's a woman's body,
• 20:25
  Norm Murdock: therefore she can choose, okay, that her
• 20:29
  Norm Murdock: choices about her body reign supreme over any
• 20:33
  Norm Murdock: other interest, including the very life of a child she may
• 20:37
  Norm Murdock: have inside of her. This feeds into Lindsey Clancy, by the
• 20:41
  Norm Murdock: way. The same people who told
• 20:44
  Norm Murdock: us that told us you have no interest in controlling your
• 20:48
  Norm Murdock: personal body when it comes to COVID. The
• 20:52
  Steve: only message is they know best. They know best.
• 20:56
  Steve: And they get to— So it really had nothing to do with your body. I
• 20:59
  Steve: was talking to a young law student. And your decisions. Exactly. I was just talking
• 21:02
  Steve: to a young law student that's working for me now, and she is taking constitutional
• 21:05
  Steve: law, and she's struggling with it as we all did in law school. Sure. Because
• 21:08
  Steve: you don't see the forest for the trees. You're just reading these cases of this
• 21:11
  Steve: hard language and whatever it is. Right. I started to give her a bigger picture.
• 21:14
  Steve: I said, this is all— like, the facts are interesting of the individual cases
• 21:18
  Steve: you read in constitutional law, but it's really all about the levers of power that
• 21:21
  Steve: the government is pulling. Right. And what control do they have? Right. And how does
• 21:25
  Steve: it work? Right. And I said, this is why those who try to
• 21:29
  Steve: manipulate that always end up disappointed, because if we have a court that's doing what
• 21:33
  Steve: it's supposed to do, it doesn't focus on the facts or
• 21:37
  Steve: an out— a factual outcome. Right. Or it shouldn't.
• 21:41
  Norm Murdock: Uh, it was always political. It focuses on the lever of power. So it
• 21:45
  Norm Murdock: was— yes, it was always bent, Steve. You know, constitutional,
• 21:50
  Norm Murdock: um, digestion by a court, it's
• 21:54
  Norm Murdock: always political. And it shouldn't be that way.
• 21:58
  Norm Murdock: It should be— and this is what frustrated me during, uh, law school,
• 22:02
  Norm Murdock: is I wanted to approach con law like it was
• 22:06
  Norm Murdock: engineering, right? Mm-hmm. That I have principles. I
• 22:10
  Norm Murdock: even have like firm laws of how to,
• 22:15
  Norm Murdock: uh, how to how to analyze a particular case that,
• 22:19
  Norm Murdock: you know, you would refer to previous decisions, you'd look at, uh,
• 22:23
  Norm Murdock: you know, where our common law comes from. And, and just like
• 22:27
  Norm Murdock: some kind of human AI machine, I
• 22:31
  Norm Murdock: would digest all this information and I would spit out,
• 22:35
  Norm Murdock: you know, an answer on my punch card. And it simply
• 22:39
  Norm Murdock: doesn't— it doesn't work that way. It's a fascinating meld of all
• 22:43
  Steve: these things. That's right. And when done correctly,
• 22:48
  Steve: your way, the way you would prefer it, is
• 22:52
  Steve: most of it. Yeah. I'm never going to say it's all of it. No, but
• 22:54
  Steve: it's most of it. Yeah. It's always got a political bent to it. But it
• 22:57
  Steve: has to. Yeah. I mean, it's a— these are— it's a governmental entity. And they're
• 23:01
  Norm Murdock: appointed by politicians. Appointed by politicians. Who vet them. But, uh,
• 23:05
  Steve: you'd be a Hugo Black, right? No law means no law. And that's what I
• 23:09
  Steve: mean. Yeah, no law. It says no law, you can't pass a law. And there's
• 23:12
  Steve: a lot I do. I have another podcast and people give me these comments all
• 23:14
  Steve: the time. I said, look, I can't say I disagree, I'm just telling you what
• 23:16
  Steve: happens, right? And, um, and then you have
• 23:20
  Steve: Scalia, who is a very strict construction guy, uh, but
• 23:24
  Steve: then you get the others. And there's been some recent decisions now, um, I
• 23:28
  Steve: think Jackson, Ketanji Brown Jackson, wrote this ridiculous opinion. Amy Coney
• 23:32
  Steve: Barrett went after her for it. But it, you know, You have
• 23:36
  Steve: to have some objectivity in this and not control outcomes
• 23:41
  Steve: using a lever of power. Now, the socialists that we're talking about, they don't think
• 23:44
  Steve: that they have to adhere to those boundaries because they know best.
• 23:48
  Norm Murdock: Right. They know what you should do. Right. They know what is right. Right. They
• 23:52
  Steve: know for you what is right, even if you don't know. Right. This is Marx
• 23:55
  Steve: 101, right? When in Italy, when the uprising
• 23:59
  Steve: didn't happen, they thought, well, Now we have to do it for them because they're
• 24:02
  Steve: too stupid to even know that they're miserable. Right. Yeah. And this is
• 24:06
  Steve: unfair. Yeah. KBJ is the perfect example of a
• 24:10
  Norm Murdock: Supreme Court justice that wants to
• 24:14
  Norm Murdock: enact policy. She's not really interested at all
• 24:18
  Norm Murdock: in basing her arguments on the Constitution. Not at all. Not a
• 24:22
  Norm Murdock: bit. It's just if
• 24:26
  Norm Murdock: something looks to her Unfair or wrong or
• 24:30
  Norm Murdock: not generous or not with a happy outcome.
• 24:34
  Steve: No, no, no. The outcome that she thinks is right. Well, happy outcome to her.
• 24:38
  Steve: Yeah. Is, uh, you know, that's what's unconstitutional. Yep.
• 24:43
  Steve: And, and the hard part of the legal system is
• 24:46
  Steve: that the outcomes aren't always what we like. Right.
• 24:51
  Norm Murdock: Hence, you change the Constitution
• 24:55
  Norm Murdock: in some way, which we've done What do— what, what,
• 24:59
  Norm Murdock: 27 times? Yeah, there's— as my buddy likes to say, well, there's
• 25:02
  Steve: an instruction book. It came with a book. It came with a book. It's like
• 25:05
  Steve: The Greatest American Hero when he finds the instruction book for the suit. Like, it
• 25:08
  Steve: comes with a book. You can, you can, uh, you can change it. You can
• 25:11
  Norm Murdock: change it. You can call it— you can even call another constitutional convention if
• 25:15
  Norm Murdock: you want. Yep, you can do it. It's all provided for. But I'd be curious
• 25:19
  Steve: to see how these DSAs propose to do what they're talking about
• 25:22
  Steve: doing. How would they affect— would it be a constitutional amendment? Of course not. They
• 25:26
  Steve: would take the power And just cram it down. Right.
• 25:30
  Steve: Just cram it down. And if you've packed the court with your people, I mean,
• 25:33
  Steve: this is a coup. This is what they're calling for. Absolutely. Is an
• 25:37
  Steve: overthrow of the American government. Yeah. That's what they're talking about. Yeah. They're not
• 25:41
  Steve: talking about amending the Constitution. No. They're talking about packing the court so they can
• 25:44
  Steve: put their people in that will vote their way corruptly because they're their
• 25:48
  Steve: people, and then just take it over. Oh, we don't need the Senate anymore. We
• 25:52
  Steve: don't need to amend the Constitution. We're just going to say it. Yeah.
• 25:56
  Steve: Civil war would— and here's the problem now.
• 26:00
  Steve: I heard Jordan Peterson ask this. This is years ago, and so it's not new,
• 26:03
  Steve: but he just says, well, the problem with these people that
• 26:07
  Steve: hate all the Trump supporters is that it's like half, right? What
• 26:11
  Steve: are you going to do with the other half? These are people. Right.
• 26:15
  Norm Murdock: Yeah. And the reasons for hating Trump,
• 26:20
  Norm Murdock: I mean, if When you really do a deep interview,
• 26:24
  Norm Murdock: which is hard to do, but when you do that and you peel
• 26:28
  Norm Murdock: away the layers, it gets down to some really strange
• 26:32
  Norm Murdock: perception issues.
• 26:36
  Norm Murdock: Very few of the people really understand any of these issues
• 26:41
  Norm Murdock: that they claim they oppose Trump because
• 26:45
  Norm Murdock: of whatever, immigration or or, uh,
• 26:49
  Norm Murdock: you know, trans stuff or, or whatever it is, building up the
• 26:53
  Norm Murdock: military, very few of the people really understand the ins
• 26:57
  Norm Murdock: and outs. They, they use these words or they use these
• 27:00
  Norm Murdock: phrases, um, as like epithets.
• 27:05
  Norm Murdock: And, and when you try to drill down past that and try to really—
• 27:09
  Norm Murdock: even the DSA people don't even understand Marx
• 27:13
  Norm Murdock: and Engels and, and Stalin and Well, they're running around wearing
• 27:16
  Norm Murdock: Maoist shirts, right? Yeah, and Che shirts. And
• 27:20
  Norm Murdock: basically they don't even understand what they purport to
• 27:25
  Norm Murdock: represent. And the problem with a lot of
• 27:29
  Norm Murdock: this is that Trump, to so many,
• 27:33
  Norm Murdock: especially suburban women, he's an icky guy. He
• 27:37
  Norm Murdock: reminds them of their dad or their grandpa.
• 27:41
  Norm Murdock: He's like Archie Bunker or whatever. And they build from
• 27:45
  Norm Murdock: that this construct that, well, whatever he says
• 27:49
  Norm Murdock: must be wrong. And like, it's just an immediate reaction.
• 27:53
  Steve: It's— they can't— the Democratic Party quickly
• 27:57
  Steve: realized that they can't control him. Yeah. And that
• 28:01
  Steve: makes him dangerous to them. So you and I,
• 28:05
  Norm Murdock: when we analyze any kind of government program,
• 28:10
  Norm Murdock: whether it came from Biden or Ronald Reagan or Obama or
• 28:13
  Norm Murdock: Trump, I look at that program
• 28:17
  Norm Murdock: dispassionately and try to analyze, well, what do I think of that
• 28:21
  Norm Murdock: program? And I could care less if it came from Obama or
• 28:25
  Norm Murdock: Biden, for example. If it's a good idea and it comes from
• 28:28
  Norm Murdock: them, I accept that. Mm-hmm. You know, if I've
• 28:32
  Norm Murdock: analyzed it and thought about it, So it's
• 28:36
  Norm Murdock: not like an authorship thing, but for so many, this half of the
• 28:40
  Norm Murdock: population that Jordan Peterson, who's interestingly enough
• 28:45
  Norm Murdock: a psychologist, is the psychology
• 28:48
  Norm Murdock: behind their enmity towards Trump a lot of
• 28:52
  Norm Murdock: times has nothing at all to do with the issues. It
• 28:56
  Norm Murdock: just has to do with some kind of personal revulsion. We
• 29:00
  Steve: hate that guy. We hate that guy. He's horrible. So then every— like
• 29:04
  Norm Murdock: Trump is fond of saying, if I came up with a cure for
• 29:07
  Norm Murdock: cancer, you'd be against the cure for cancer because I found
• 29:12
  Norm Murdock: it. But if Biden found the cure for cancer, it'd be a wonderful thing. This
• 29:16
  Steve: shot came along under Trump, and I remember Congress saying,
• 29:20
  Steve: I'm not going to take any shot that he created. Right, right, right. And then
• 29:22
  Steve: they get power. The Trump vaccine. The Trump vaccine. Then they get their power. Now
• 29:25
  Steve: they force everybody to get it. And I think to say what you and I
• 29:29
  Steve: are saying is I, I, we always try to be— I can't promise I'm always
• 29:33
  Steve: consistent and perfect, by— not by any means, but I always try to look at
• 29:37
  Steve: what it is. Yeah. And I wouldn't have taken that shot under if Trump were
• 29:40
  Steve: president. I wouldn't have taken that shot if Biden were president. Wouldn't have made it,
• 29:43
  Steve: or whoever comes next. Well, on this show, Steve, we, we have a whole host
• 29:46
  Norm Murdock: of things that I think you and I mostly, uh, are in sync on.
• 29:50
  Norm Murdock: Not everything, but, uh, that Trump has proposed or done
• 29:54
  Norm Murdock: which I think are clearly not good ideas. This New Canada thing,
• 29:58
  Steve: I think, is a mistake for him. We may disagree on this. Right, right. I
• 30:01
  Norm Murdock: agree. I think this is a mistake right now. It is a mistake. And I'm
• 30:04
  Steve: not saying go Trump just because— No. Because we can look at this and
• 30:08
  Steve: say, all right, I can criticize this part of it. This is what being an
• 30:12
  Steve: American is all about. We get to do this. We get to say, look, I'm
• 30:14
  Steve: not just gonna adhere to this party line. Think how fascist this sounds. You
• 30:18
  Steve: have to agree with everything your leader says or else. Well, we just hit $40
• 30:22
  Norm Murdock: trillion in debt, right? When Trump
• 30:26
  Norm Murdock: started in office, we were at $33 trillion. He is
• 30:30
  Norm Murdock: spending like a drunk sailor, and he keeps coming up with more and more
• 30:35
  Norm Murdock: socialist-oriented kinds of programs like banning
• 30:40
  Norm Murdock: large companies from buying homes, like this
• 30:44
  Norm Murdock: Trump account for babies. I don't like any of it.
• 30:48
  Norm Murdock: Yeah. I mean, you know, it— and, and even the thing
• 30:52
  Norm Murdock: that really got him, you know, some
• 30:55
  Norm Murdock: comity with, uh, the, the
• 30:59
  Norm Murdock: African-American community, this, this
• 31:02
  Norm Murdock: spending on predominantly or historically Black
• 31:06
  Norm Murdock: colleges to the exception of other colleges. I don't like it.
• 31:10
  Norm Murdock: That's crazy. I don't like it. It's color, it's color, it's race-based.
• 31:14
  Norm Murdock: favoritism. And here's what— but he does it for political reasons, maybe.
• 31:18
  Steve: Um, I mean, at least that's the presumption. Well, he likes giving away
• 31:22
  Norm Murdock: government money. This is my problem with DeWine and most RINOs.
• 31:26
  Norm Murdock: And I think Trump is not— he's not the
• 31:30
  Norm Murdock: classic RINO, but he's close. He's— he dabbles,
• 31:34
  Norm Murdock: right? He dabbles in these kinds— I don't think he's— look, I don't think he's
• 31:37
  Steve: ever— I think he's been a Democrat his whole life. I think he likes playing
• 31:41
  Norm Murdock: Santa Claus. Yeah. You know, just like the wine. And he likes this idea
• 31:44
  Norm Murdock: of taking our tax money that, you know, we were just talking
• 31:48
  Norm Murdock: about, Glenn. You know, we have to go see an accountant, spend a lot of
• 31:52
  Norm Murdock: money, you know, throughout the years doing our
• 31:56
  Norm Murdock: bookkeeping, keeping track of where money goes, hiring an accountant.
• 32:00
  Norm Murdock: And then we spend a week or 10 days compiling all these
• 32:04
  Norm Murdock: records, shipping them off to our accountant, all of this
• 32:08
  Norm Murdock: stuff. Right? And then we have people in DC
• 32:12
  Norm Murdock: taking our hard-earned money and giving it to other
• 32:15
  Norm Murdock: people as if it's like playing Santa Claus. Yeah.
• 32:20
  Norm Murdock: And it just blows me away that they can think like that
• 32:24
  Norm Murdock: when Thomas Sowell and, and true conservatives would say,
• 32:29
  Norm Murdock: well, when you take money from somebody involuntarily
• 32:33
  Norm Murdock: with the threat of imprisonment, Right. I.e., taxes. You're,
• 32:37
  Norm Murdock: you're, you're really— you're stealing from them. You're stealing. Now look, to some degree
• 32:41
  Steve: we've agreed with it. Um, you know, that there's a Constitution
• 32:46
  Steve: and Congress has the right to tax, but it's been expanded so much that now
• 32:50
  Steve: they're taking our money to do what they will at their whim. Yeah. With
• 32:54
  Steve: an executive order, no less. I mean, it's lunacy to me. It is lunacy. I've
• 32:57
  Steve: been howling at the moon about this now for years, but, uh,
• 33:01
  Steve: I guess the point we're trying to make underlying all of this is that we
• 33:04
  Steve: can see the both good and bad out of this stuff, right? But it seems
• 33:08
  Steve: like a lot of people on the other side never did. Not all of them,
• 33:10
  Steve: right? I mean, Bill Maher is now sort of saying, look guys, this is insanity.
• 33:14
  Steve: Why are you going along with this? He said, I might vote for, uh, J.D.
• 33:17
  Norm Murdock: Vance. Yeah. And, or Marco Rubio, whoever the Republican,
• 33:21
  Norm Murdock: because like, I can't vote for AOC. Because Bill Maher is more
• 33:24
  Steve: of a traditional blue dog Kennedy-type Democrat.
• 33:29
  Norm Murdock: Right. Well, he's certainly not an anti-Semite being Jewish himself. Well, he's
• 33:33
  Steve: not an anti-Semite and he is not a DSA guy.
• 33:36
  Norm Murdock: Yeah. So he's kind of part of the Democrat Party that's
• 33:40
  Norm Murdock: just been abandoned. They've written off those
• 33:44
  Norm Murdock: kinds of Democrats. Carville being another example, James
• 33:48
  Norm Murdock: Carville. Lots of these,
• 33:52
  Norm Murdock: if you will,
• 33:56
  Norm Murdock: middle-of-the-road, pretty much pro-union.
• 34:02
  Norm Murdock: They think of themselves as the vanguard of the working class and all of that
• 34:06
  Norm Murdock: stuff. That's all gone. But that's all gone. They hate the working class. They do.
• 34:08
  Steve: The elites have taken over. This is what Adams— it's like we just get right
• 34:11
  Steve: back to this— what Adams was most concerned about.
• 34:15
  Steve: And if you go read some of these debates he had with Jefferson, I mean,
• 34:18
  Steve: this is it. This is boots on the ground what he was
• 34:22
  Steve: worried about. Right. And he was the champion for the little guy. Yeah. And
• 34:26
  Norm Murdock: Adams was smarter than all of them, as, as urban as a, as
• 34:30
  Norm Murdock: a, uh, as a founding father could be. He was an urbanite,
• 34:34
  Norm Murdock: and Jefferson was a farmer. And, and you couldn't—
• 34:38
  Norm Murdock: you— the classic inability of
• 34:42
  Norm Murdock: Jefferson not to absorb and understand what's going
• 34:46
  Norm Murdock: on in the teeming masses of places like Boston
• 34:50
  Norm Murdock: which weren't really teeming, but I mean, that was as urban as it got back
• 34:53
  Norm Murdock: then. It, it's, it's striking, and it's, it's sort of
• 34:57
  Norm Murdock: understandable how Jefferson had this remote
• 35:02
  Norm Murdock: idea that the, the lofty, the, the good angels in people would
• 35:06
  Norm Murdock: always overcome their negative impulses. And Adams
• 35:10
  Norm Murdock: knew better. Adams knew better. Adams was, Adams was, uh,
• 35:14
  Steve: just a boots-on-the-ground— Absolutely. slugger, you know, just
• 35:18
  Steve: saw— but really, really smart. If I, if I could be like any of them,
• 35:21
  Steve: it would be Adams. And he was fair-minded. He did represent during
• 35:25
  Norm Murdock: the Boston Massacre. He represented as an attorney,
• 35:30
  Norm Murdock: right, the, the, uh, the British
• 35:33
  Norm Murdock: soldiers who opened fire on the crowd and created enough
• 35:37
  Norm Murdock: doubt in the minds of the jury that they let them off. They,
• 35:41
  Norm Murdock: they were not convicted. And that was Adams Certainly he was a
• 35:45
  Norm Murdock: revolutionary, but he was also a believer in due
• 35:49
  Norm Murdock: process and fairness, even
• 35:53
  Norm Murdock: for his enemies, his political enemies,
• 35:57
  Norm Murdock: not his mortal enemies. Yeah. And
• 36:01
  Steve: wasn't he the guy, didn't he represent
• 36:07
  Steve: the slave ship? Slave ship. I believe he did. Yeah. I'm looking that up right
• 36:10
  Steve: now. Right. Amistad was the movie. Yeah, Amistad, which
• 36:14
  Norm Murdock: washed up on shore and, oh, a
• 36:17
  Norm Murdock: whole cargo load of African
• 36:21
  Norm Murdock: slaves. Well, what do we do with these people? Well, shouldn't they be
• 36:25
  Norm Murdock: free? They landed in a free state. Yep.
• 36:29
  Steve: And I think Anthony
• 36:33
  Steve: Hopkins played Adams in that movie, if I'm not mistaken. But
• 36:37
  Steve: anyway, we've digressed a little bit. Yeah. Uh, we should probably hit some news.
• 36:41
  Norm Murdock: Well, the Lindsay Clancy case, uh, we were, uh,
• 36:45
  Norm Murdock: disgusting before the show. Um,
• 36:49
  Norm Murdock: I'm fascinated that somehow this has taken on
• 36:53
  Norm Murdock: the abortion debate for some reason. Okay,
• 36:57
  Norm Murdock: clearly she strangled babies long after
• 37:01
  Norm Murdock: they were born, so it's not abortion. Um,
• 37:06
  Norm Murdock: And she sent her husband away. I
• 37:09
  Norm Murdock: remember from law school this basic
• 37:13
  Norm Murdock: precept in the law that you, in order to be
• 37:17
  Norm Murdock: convicted of a crime, you must know basically, I'm
• 37:21
  Norm Murdock: boiling this down, the difference between right and wrong. And the
• 37:24
  Norm Murdock: argument by her team, her defense
• 37:29
  Norm Murdock: lawyers, is that At the time of the killings, the
• 37:33
  Norm Murdock: strangulation of these 3 babies of hers,
• 37:36
  Norm Murdock: children, she did not know
• 37:40
  Norm Murdock: right from wrong, and an interior voice appeared in
• 37:44
  Norm Murdock: her head and told her to commit these murders.
• 37:49
  Norm Murdock: Militating on the other side of that, of course, is that she
• 37:53
  Norm Murdock: concocted a plan to get her husband out of the house,
• 37:57
  Norm Murdock: So that she could do these murders. Well, it— I don't think those two— here,
• 38:00
  Steve: here's how this goes. There's an old test in common law that most of us
• 38:03
  Steve: learned about in law school, and I know about because I practice criminal defense. It's
• 38:06
  Steve: called the M'Naughten test, and it's M apostrophe
• 38:09
  Steve: N-A-U-G-H-T-E-N. Has to do with a case back in England,
• 38:13
  Steve: um, and it's the test for the insanity defense. So ordinarily,
• 38:17
  Steve: if you're gonna— if you're the government, you're gonna accuse me of murder, you have
• 38:20
  Steve: to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I, with purpose, or in the old
• 38:24
  Steve: days, with malice aforethought, killed somebody. Yeah. One life,
• 38:28
  Steve: taking one life. If you remember your common law definition, taking one human life by
• 38:32
  Steve: another with malice aforethought without mitigation, justification, or excuse. Yeah. That for bar exam.
• 38:36
  Norm Murdock: Yeah. But there are defenses to that.
• 38:40
  Steve: Some are mitigating defenses and some are just outright defenses. Mitigating would be
• 38:43
  Steve: something like hot blood, caught the guy in bed with your wife and
• 38:47
  Steve: that pissed you off so much that turns a murder into a manslaughter because
• 38:51
  Steve: some mitigating circumstance. Mm-hmm. Right. Insanity
• 38:55
  Steve: is an absolute defense. Self-defense is an absolute defense that falls on
• 38:59
  Steve: the lap of the defendant to prove it. So yeah, lack of mental
• 39:03
  Norm Murdock: capacity. If, if you're, uh, let's suppose,
• 39:07
  Norm Murdock: uh, a, a, I don't know, a mentally retarded, uh,
• 39:11
  Norm Murdock: diagnosed mentally retarded, uh, child— Not
• 39:15
  Steve: competent to actually stand trial. Or, or, or adult. And, and, and somebody says, hey,
• 39:19
  Norm Murdock: would you watch our our children while we go to a movie and, and
• 39:23
  Norm Murdock: something bad happens, like he lets them meet, you know, Drano or
• 39:27
  Norm Murdock: something, you know, you, you probably can't convict that
• 39:31
  Norm Murdock: person because they lack the mental capacity. So the M'Naughton
• 39:34
  Steve: test is basically 2 parts. It is the person did not
• 39:38
  Steve: understand what they were doing, and they did not know that their action
• 39:42
  Steve: was legally or morally wrong. So the SEALs say they don't know right from wrong.
• 39:45
  Steve: So you don't understand what you're doing and you don't know right from wrong. Right.
• 39:50
  Steve: There was a competing test called irresistible impulse where people
• 39:54
  Steve: would just, I just had this impulse to kill. Yeah. Well, that's pretty much been
• 39:57
  Steve: abandoned by everyone. And monotonous is sort of the baseline for most tests.
• 40:01
  Steve: So the question is, does Clancy, did she know right from wrong? Yeah.
• 40:05
  Steve: And I think that she did. I think that she did. But the defense is,
• 40:09
  Steve: of course, that she was had this, um, she had
• 40:12
  Steve: depression, she had post— Postpartum. Postpartum
• 40:16
  Steve: psychosis. Yep. Uh, and depression complicated by all sorts of meds that
• 40:20
  Steve: were ill-prescribed and overprescribed. And all that is true, right? And I'm fascinated by this
• 40:24
  Steve: as a lawyer. And by the way, I would be arguing the same thing if
• 40:26
  Steve: I were representing her. I would be doing this. Well, it would be your duty.
• 40:28
  Steve: And hats off to that lawyer, he's doing a hell of a job making that
• 40:30
  Steve: argument. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it sort of calls into question the M'Naughton Rule and
• 40:34
  Steve: whether do we find her not guilty for killing her children
• 40:37
  Steve: because she didn't know right from wrong. And I think she did know right from
• 40:40
  Steve: wrong. I don't know what the jury's going to do. Yeah. Because there
• 40:44
  Steve: is a mitigation to this. Now, ordinarily, this
• 40:48
  Steve: kind of thing is baked into the cake with the
• 40:52
  Steve: prosecutor doing his job. The prosecutor's going to say, look, it's a
• 40:55
  Steve: horrific murder. We understand you had this psychosis. We'll offer you a manslaughter or offer
• 40:59
  Steve: you something else. A lot of times that's what happens. But in these showcases,
• 41:04
  Steve: they're going to trial, right? And, uh, that's, that's where the lines have been drawn
• 41:08
  Steve: here. So it's, it sounds like it's going to be an all or nothing. I
• 41:10
  Steve: don't know if there's going to be lesser included. There might be. Well, I saw
• 41:14
  Norm Murdock: today that the, um, that the
• 41:18
  Norm Murdock: presiding judge, uh, and quite rightly, is
• 41:22
  Norm Murdock: allowing the defense to, um, construct a
• 41:26
  Norm Murdock: backup case of manslaughter, you know. So there is, there, there
• 41:30
  Steve: is going to be a lesser included offense of manslaughter. And that's probably
• 41:33
  Steve: where the case should end. It's probably where it'll go. And people are going to
• 41:36
  Steve: say, well, how dare you, that she killed these kids. And other people are going
• 41:39
  Steve: to say, um, yeah, but she was insane. Like, legally speaking, if
• 41:43
  Steve: I'm just analyzing this, not advocating for her, analyzing this,
• 41:47
  Steve: yeah, um, my strategy would be, if I'm not getting— if the prosecutor's not offering
• 41:51
  Steve: me a reduced murder, right, I would do the same thing this lawyer's doing.
• 41:55
  Norm Murdock: That's what he's doing. I would advance an insanity defense, and at the same
• 41:59
  Steve: time, I would try to leave room over here for lesser included. So the jury
• 42:02
  Steve: says, look, we're not going to quite buy that, but we'll give you that. And
• 42:05
  Norm Murdock: I think, Steve, you said something similar probably should have
• 42:09
  Norm Murdock: been allowed or should have happened by the defense
• 42:13
  Norm Murdock: in the Carmelo Anthony case, that stabbing at the
• 42:17
  Norm Murdock: track meet between the 2
• 42:21
  Norm Murdock: kids over who got to sit under a shelter.
• 42:26
  Norm Murdock: And, and some, you know, this, it's turned out that Carmelo
• 42:30
  Norm Murdock: was looking for trouble. There's lots of evidence now on his cell
• 42:34
  Norm Murdock: phone and talking to his girlfriend or whatever, that he was looking to
• 42:38
  Norm Murdock: get into a fight with somebody and didn't have those guys
• 42:42
  Norm Murdock: in particular in mind, but he was going to use that knife and he was
• 42:46
  Norm Murdock: going to go do something to somebody. And, and it,
• 42:50
  Norm Murdock: it would be like that hot blood example that you, you— Well, this may
• 42:54
  Steve: have been why they— I don't, I, I don't know the case well enough to
• 42:57
  Steve: know if the defense tried to get a manslaughter out of that. Yeah, they may
• 43:00
  Steve: have. I think, I think, I think we found that
• 43:03
  Norm Murdock: they did not. Okay. And you were— may have been— this goes
• 43:07
  Norm Murdock: back months, and I believe you were critical of the defense for
• 43:11
  Norm Murdock: not pursuing that. Now I may understand why. Yeah, because if you pursue
• 43:15
  Steve: a manslaughter, it may have opened the door for admission of all this other
• 43:19
  Steve: evidence that looks really, really bad. Yeah. So in other words, if I'm going to
• 43:23
  Steve: say it was hot blood, I was just in the moment, I got so upset
• 43:25
  Steve: at this That I committed this crime and I'm sorry. So they're going to say,
• 43:28
  Steve: well, hold on a second, look at all this other evidence that's out there. So
• 43:32
  Norm Murdock: Steve, what's interesting about that is the piece that I read
• 43:37
  Norm Murdock: said that the prosecution and the defense had a gentleman's
• 43:41
  Norm Murdock: agreement not to present this
• 43:44
  Norm Murdock: other evidence about him, but also
• 43:48
  Norm Murdock: about the 2 brothers, one of which who was stabbed in the heart.
• 43:52
  Norm Murdock: that he had been caught by school
• 43:56
  Norm Murdock: officials or the police or something putting
• 44:00
  Norm Murdock: up racist graffiti and had
• 44:04
  Norm Murdock: engaged in racist kinds of discussions
• 44:08
  Norm Murdock: about Black people. So was
• 44:12
  Norm Murdock: somehow his mannerisms or his affect
• 44:17
  Norm Murdock: leading up to the stabbing in some way
• 44:20
  Norm Murdock: racial. And they decided, if you leave out this stuff
• 44:24
  Norm Murdock: about Carmelo noodling on his phone and talking to his girlfriend
• 44:28
  Norm Murdock: about, I'm going to mess somebody up today, we'll leave out all
• 44:32
  Norm Murdock: this stuff, like the
• 44:36
  Norm Murdock: cops in the O.J. case. We'll leave out the
• 44:39
  Norm Murdock: background of the victims. I don't know if they— it's interesting. I don't know if
• 44:43
  Norm Murdock: that That all got left out of the case. And it—
• 44:47
  Steve: they— I guess what I'm saying is they may— that those 2 things may not
• 44:50
  Steve: have been connected exactly. Oh yeah, for sure. If—
• 44:54
  Norm Murdock: but it would poison— No, I mean, there might have been— there might— in other
• 44:57
  Steve: words, the agreement, if you don't do this, we won't do that. Yeah, that may
• 44:59
  Steve: not be connected. It might be that, look, we're going to agree
• 45:04
  Steve: that this evidence is not admissible. And there— my
• 45:08
  Steve: guess is there was some conversations with the court There was probably a judge that
• 45:11
  Steve: had weighed in on some of this that said, look what's out there, guys.
• 45:16
  Steve: Is this admissible? Is this going to be considered, quote, 404-type character
• 45:19
  Steve: evidence that shouldn't come in on either side? Steve, it said it was a
• 45:23
  Norm Murdock: gentleman's agreement. Well, I understand. I wonder what that means. What that means is— It
• 45:27
  Norm Murdock: sounds like it was around the back of the judge. It sounds like that, but
• 45:31
  Steve: I, I, I would need to know more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have all
• 45:34
  Steve: sorts of— I am speculating. All sorts of agreements like this
• 45:36
  Steve: with prosecutors, look, we're not going to— I have one right now with a trial
• 45:39
  Steve: I'm going to have. Hey, look, are you going to make me bring in a
• 45:41
  Steve: keeper of records for these documents? Are you going to object? No, we're not going
• 45:44
  Steve: to object. You can go ahead and do it. Is that a gentleman's agreement if
• 45:47
  Steve: the judge isn't involved in that? Well, yeah, I guess, but there's nothing wrong
• 45:51
  Steve: about that. No, I'm— no, that's part of the— Yeah. So the question
• 45:54
  Steve: is, it might be, look, I'm not even going to try to admit this stuff
• 45:58
  Steve: because we are agreeing that it's not admissible. Well, that's a gentleman's agreement. Right, right.
• 46:01
  Steve: And you don't have to go fight it and we don't need to go have
• 46:04
  Steve: a hearing about it. we agree with you. Yeah. And it might have been that
• 46:06
  Steve: way on both sides. Right. And it might have also been, look, if your
• 46:10
  Steve: defense is XYZ, I think this stuff comes in to refute that
• 46:14
  Steve: defense. So let us know what your plan
• 46:18
  Steve: is and we'll go talk to the judge about it. Right. And so that— those
• 46:21
  Steve: kind of things happen a lot and there's nothing wrong with them. And I think,
• 46:25
  Steve: I think a lot of the media attention, the conservative media attention, is upset about
• 46:29
  Steve: this, saying, well, this is to protect the defendant and it was done to this.
• 46:33
  Steve: And I don't think so. I think this is to protect a fair trial. Yeah.
• 46:37
  Norm Murdock: If it was an arm's-length agreement between the two
• 46:40
  Norm Murdock: sides— For evidentiary reasons. Yeah. Then— But if we're just
• 46:44
  Steve: saying, yeah, we're all going to agree on the defense side to lay off the—
• 46:48
  Steve: or if we're going to agree on the prosecutor's side to lay off the
• 46:53
  Steve: defendant because we don't want to impugn him because of race,
• 46:57
  Steve: well, that's a problem. But I don't think that's going on. Yeah. So
• 47:02
  Norm Murdock: I guess Lindsay Clancy, she's got this GoFundMe,
• 47:07
  Norm Murdock: millions of dollars. She has hundreds of women
• 47:10
  Norm Murdock: outside that courtroom this week.
• 47:14
  Steve: It's insane. It's insane. And they're conflating this with
• 47:18
  Norm Murdock: abortion. Oh, it's so horrible that women have to have kids. Yeah. It's so
• 47:22
  Steve: horrible that we have to raise kids in this world. It's so horrible that this
• 47:25
  Steve: is the way the world is. I find this lunacy. Yeah.
• 47:29
  Steve: Lunacy. Yeah. This crime is
• 47:33
  Steve: horrific for all sorts of reasons. It's horrific for those kids.
• 47:37
  Steve: It's horrific for her that she— because I believe
• 47:40
  Steve: that in a sane, completely
• 47:45
  Steve: state of mind, she wouldn't have done this. So that doesn't mean that she shouldn't
• 47:48
  Steve: be convicted of it, and maybe she shouldn't or maybe she should. It's not— Right.
• 47:52
  Steve: But I don't think that she was of sound mind because I don't believe that
• 47:55
  Steve: somebody kills their kids unless they're crazy. I wish that there was
• 48:00
  Norm Murdock: a mechanism, and I don't— I'm not smart enough to come
• 48:04
  Norm Murdock: up with one, but this always bothered me,
• 48:08
  Norm Murdock: the idea of the insanity defense, because,
• 48:14
  Norm Murdock: you know, it's indisputable that she killed 3 kids.
• 48:18
  Norm Murdock: And whether she was— I'll just go ahead and give it to her.
• 48:22
  Norm Murdock: Let's say she was insane,
• 48:26
  Norm Murdock: full-on, totally insane. There still should be
• 48:30
  Norm Murdock: some way to institutionalize people
• 48:34
  Norm Murdock: that have that insane capability
• 48:39
  Norm Murdock: to kill other people. She shouldn't just walk
• 48:43
  Norm Murdock: if they— They typically don't though. Yeah. With evaluations
• 48:47
  Steve: and usually with periods. So what's interesting though is now in Modern science, now
• 48:50
  Steve: with this quote, modern advanced science. Again, I always ask, what could possibly
• 48:54
  Steve: go wrong with all this? So now let's throw
• 48:58
  Steve: something at you like I would in law school. Yeah, okay, so that's the traditional
• 49:02
  Steve: insanity, meaning somebody is
• 49:06
  Steve: just— we all agree that there are people like that that exist.
• 49:10
  Steve: They're just— Sure. They're just— absolutely. Whatever it is, they've been touched with it. There
• 49:13
  Norm Murdock: are insane people, no question about it. But now we're creating insane people. And diminished
• 49:17
  Norm Murdock: capacity people. Now, people with Down syndrome or whatever you have. But
• 49:21
  Steve: now we're creating insane people with drugs. And this is
• 49:25
  Steve: where you— the curves crossed on this was something called temporary insanity.
• 49:30
  Steve: So, and was I temporarily insane? Meaning now I'm cured, but at the time
• 49:34
  Steve: I was temporarily insane because of these drugs I was taking or because of postpartum
• 49:38
  Steve: psychosis. But now I'm totally sane. What do you do with that person? Really difficult
• 49:41
  Steve: question. Now, the good news is this rarely happens. Yeah. So, you know, whenever,
• 49:46
  Steve: um, whenever these things come up, it's like,
• 49:50
  Steve: all right, yeah, I get it. It's a, it's a conundrum that maybe has no
• 49:53
  Steve: answer, but at least it hardly ever happens. Well, uh, another
• 49:57
  Norm Murdock: big legal, uh, matter involving Meta
• 50:01
  Norm Murdock: or Facebook, um, for $16
• 50:05
  Norm Murdock: billion, just settled with, uh,
• 50:09
  Norm Murdock: 47 states and territories of of
• 50:13
  Norm Murdock: America. 29 state attorney generals
• 50:17
  Norm Murdock: did what I call a reverse RICO, ganged together,
• 50:21
  Norm Murdock: 29 states, and sued Meta. The trial started this week in
• 50:25
  Norm Murdock: California, and yesterday they announced
• 50:29
  Norm Murdock: that they settled the case. So it's not going to go through the full
• 50:33
  Norm Murdock: trial. And basically what they were accused of by the
• 50:37
  Norm Murdock: The 29 AGs is the old,
• 50:41
  Norm Murdock: at this point for me it's old, but the old
• 50:45
  Norm Murdock: idea that, well, you have intentionally created an
• 50:49
  Norm Murdock: addictive product
• 50:53
  Norm Murdock: and that product being Facebook where
• 50:56
  Norm Murdock: underage and the magic age in the settlement
• 51:00
  Norm Murdock: is children under 13. I don't know why
• 51:04
  Norm Murdock: that's— I don't understand that because, you know, if you take the
• 51:08
  Norm Murdock: McDonald's Big Mac case, that involved adults. So these,
• 51:13
  Norm Murdock: these cases where they accuse a company of creating an
• 51:16
  Norm Murdock: addictive product and therefore they're liable
• 51:21
  Norm Murdock: in some way for that, those addictions and the outcomes,
• 51:25
  Norm Murdock: health outcomes, suicide outcomes, these kinds of
• 51:29
  Norm Murdock: things. So what Zuckerberg and Meta
• 51:33
  Norm Murdock: agreed to do is you're going to have to— we all are going
• 51:37
  Norm Murdock: to, because of this case, if you want to participate
• 51:41
  Norm Murdock: in social media, because I think other social media companies will copy
• 51:45
  Norm Murdock: this because this will be the approved system. Yeah, this will be the tobacco
• 51:49
  Steve: rules. Exactly. They're going to make the rest of us
• 51:52
  Norm Murdock: demonstrate that we are above age 13. And
• 51:56
  Norm Murdock: how will we do that without giving up our privacy in social
• 52:00
  Norm Murdock: media will be a very interesting thing. Well, here's— it says there's now
• 52:04
  Steve: a default daily screen time limit of 2 hours will be imposed on all teen
• 52:07
  Steve: accounts. Uh, nighttime blocks, prevent late-night scrolling,
• 52:11
  Steve: right? Lock accounts during sleep hours, right? School disruption pauses,
• 52:16
  Steve: rapid response mandate, must respond to reports of harmful content within 6 hours, at
• 52:20
  Steve: least 90% of the cases. So if you're Doogie Howser and you're under 13
• 52:24
  Norm Murdock: and you're brilliant and you're well-adjusted and your parents are are, are
• 52:28
  Norm Murdock: very involved in your life. This is an impingement on
• 52:32
  Norm Murdock: those who are under 13 that are well-adjusted, uh, children.
• 52:36
  Steve: Or let's say you just happen to be a vampire. Well, I mean it, like
• 52:40
  Steve: you function at night but not today. But Steve, more importantly, like what they're doing
• 52:44
  Norm Murdock: in England and at the EU, and like Communist China does,
• 52:48
  Norm Murdock: is if somehow the people running
• 52:51
  Norm Murdock: Meta, and therefore the government, If you
• 52:55
  Norm Murdock: and I have to identify who we are before we go
• 53:00
  Norm Murdock: and do our library search, like on Wiki or
• 53:04
  Norm Murdock: Meta or whatever, or do AI,
• 53:10
  Norm Murdock: well, we were talking about COVID before. So
• 53:13
  Norm Murdock: if they know when I'm online, oh, that guy's okay,
• 53:17
  Norm Murdock: he's an adult. But now, they— yeah,
• 53:21
  Norm Murdock: I know they can kind of track me anyway, but now it's really in your
• 53:25
  Norm Murdock: face that they're going to know Steve Palmer or Norm
• 53:28
  Norm Murdock: Murdoch are on their computer. They're above age 13.
• 53:33
  Norm Murdock: And oh, look at Steve, he's, he's looking at, uh, he's
• 53:37
  Norm Murdock: looking at what Dr. Bhattacharya says about COVID uh,
• 53:41
  Norm Murdock: you know. And yeah, look, I mean, this is the Big Brother— Yeah. Problem. This
• 53:44
  Norm Murdock: is— and they love that. They love that in communist and, and authoritarian
• 53:48
  Norm Murdock: countries? I've got no great answer for it other than, I mean, look, the response
• 53:52
  Steve: from the government's gonna be it's a private company, they can ask you for whatever
• 53:55
  Steve: they want. You just don't, you have a choice not to use their platform. Right.
• 53:59
  Steve: Now that hasn't worked traditionally with things like the FCC because they say there's
• 54:02
  Steve: limited platforms and, you know, there's different issues that can come up,
• 54:06
  Steve: but— Or when you're President Biden and you send the FBI. Or you take, or
• 54:10
  Steve: the government gets in bed with these platforms. And I don't think under Trump and
• 54:13
  Steve: I don't think under Biden it's any different. I think the government is totally embedded
• 54:16
  Steve: with these platforms. Um, well, I think the purpose may be
• 54:20
  Norm Murdock: different, but I don't think the Trump FBI is telling
• 54:24
  Norm Murdock: the tech bros that they need to squelch
• 54:28
  Norm Murdock: any kind of speech. But I bet they are involved looking
• 54:32
  Steve: for people that are committing the crimes that they like, that they want to
• 54:36
  Steve: prosecute. Well, like terrorism. Uh, whether it's terrorism,
• 54:40
  Steve: whether it's ICE, whether it's whatever. And look, you can say, well, that's okay because
• 54:43
  Steve: it's terrorists. But what you're— what does— back to our conversation, there's a lever of
• 54:47
  Steve: power being employed there that will ultimately be employed against you or the cause that
• 54:51
  Steve: you think should not be involved. This is why we have— this is why we
• 54:55
  Steve: have a Fourth Amendment. Well, yeah. So— And this is why
• 54:59
  Steve: the courts are— the Supreme Court— I'm sorry to interrupt you. The Supreme Court is
• 55:02
  Steve: starting to protect this in issues like searching for your Google
• 55:06
  Steve: data and searching for your online data. The Supreme Court has
• 55:10
  Steve: actually been pretty decent about requiring warrants and protecting this.
• 55:14
  Steve: So there's 2 different ways they can do it. They can get a search warrant,
• 55:16
  Steve: meaning go into a court with probable cause or go into a magistrate with probable
• 55:19
  Steve: cause, or they can issue something called an investigatory subpoena, which is
• 55:23
  Steve: basically we convene a grand jury and we're going to go get records. The first,
• 55:28
  Steve: while still you may not agree with it, but at least it complies with the
• 55:31
  Steve: Fourth Amendment. The other way is what we don't like. Well, the
• 55:35
  Norm Murdock: system set up in this country to track internal
• 55:39
  Norm Murdock: communications by
• 55:44
  Norm Murdock: the FBI is they have to go to this system we set up
• 55:48
  Norm Murdock: called the FISA court system. And that is directly
• 55:52
  Norm Murdock: overseen by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Mm-hmm. So
• 55:55
  Norm Murdock: John Roberts rides herd personally on the
• 55:59
  Norm Murdock: FISA system. where that is
• 56:03
  Norm Murdock: dependent upon truthful
• 56:08
  Norm Murdock: statements, assertions by the investigatory
• 56:11
  Norm Murdock: agents like the FBI. And under Biden,
• 56:17
  Norm Murdock: they found that agents had just flat out lied and created
• 56:24
  Norm Murdock: a situation where they went after George— Weissmann. what was his name,
• 56:28
  Norm Murdock: Papadopoulos or something like that, where, where they said he was
• 56:32
  Norm Murdock: a Russian asset. And that's how they got this entire,
• 56:36
  Norm Murdock: like, um, a Trump, uh,
• 56:40
  Norm Murdock: Putin, you know, this, this Russia hoax. Russia hoax. They
• 56:44
  Norm Murdock: got the whole thing rolling based on lies to the FISA court.
• 56:48
  Norm Murdock: So there is a system in place for domestic surveillance
• 56:52
  Norm Murdock: of social media and your telephone records and all of that.
• 56:56
  Norm Murdock: But for talking about COVID or talking
• 57:00
  Norm Murdock: about, um, you know, the right to life, or talking
• 57:04
  Norm Murdock: about teachers, uh, using
• 57:07
  Norm Murdock: pornographic, uh, books to make kids
• 57:11
  Norm Murdock: think about trans, uh, you know, uh, surgeries,
• 57:15
  Norm Murdock: that's a little different. We're back to where we started, right? Because there
• 57:19
  Steve: are rules in place that the these actors don't think they should have to follow
• 57:23
  Steve: because their cause is the right one. I'm just arguing, I don't think our
• 57:27
  Norm Murdock: current DOJ is doing that. Uh, I hope not. I don't know, but
• 57:31
  Steve: to me it's the same lever of power. So it, it's all about— all
• 57:35
  Steve: right, so if you have a rule and it is susceptible to corruption,
• 57:39
  Steve: well, it's going to happen. Like, it did, and it did happen. And it— if
• 57:43
  Steve: it's not happening right now, it's probably happening in some other context that you're not—
• 57:47
  Steve: that isn't so offensive, but it's still happening. You and I in this show, we
• 57:50
  Norm Murdock: were oppressed. We were actually shadow
• 57:54
  Norm Murdock: banned by Facebook, by social
• 57:58
  Norm Murdock: media, and so were hundreds of other
• 58:02
  Norm Murdock: middle-of-the-road or conservative podcasts.
• 58:05
  Norm Murdock: I'm just saying, when people
• 58:09
  Norm Murdock: tried to discover us back during the Biden administration, it
• 58:13
  Norm Murdock: was harder to find this program. Yep. I mean, that's just a
• 58:17
  Norm Murdock: fact. I don't think that's happening under Trump.
• 58:21
  Norm Murdock: That's happening under an authoritarian mindset that
• 58:24
  Norm Murdock: I believe is the liberal mindset. I believe that— Well,
• 58:28
  Steve: they're using that because they're abusing these levers of power
• 58:32
  Steve: corruptly. I mean, the whole reason I am a Republican, or the whole reason
• 58:36
  Norm Murdock: why I vote Republican, even, you know, not
• 58:40
  Norm Murdock: always exclusively, but sometimes I'll vote for Democrats,
• 58:45
  Norm Murdock: Um, or independence. But the entire reason that I am this
• 58:49
  Norm Murdock: way is because I believe in personal freedom. I
• 58:53
  Norm Murdock: believe in rights. I believe in individual
• 58:57
  Norm Murdock: rights. Yeah, we're on the same page. And that's what the Republican Party
• 59:00
  Norm Murdock: mainly stands up for, in— or should,
• 59:04
  Norm Murdock: unless, you know, you're a RINO Republican. So
• 59:08
  Norm Murdock: I don't know where else to go with my philosophy. There, it's said
• 59:12
  Norm Murdock: that the, the libertarians are more pure And all of this, but
• 59:16
  Norm Murdock: they're pure without a moral founding. That's the problem.
• 59:20
  Steve: That's the problem with it. Yeah. And I tend to strike more libertarian than you
• 59:23
  Steve: sometimes, but I understand the argument against it. So, well, look, let's do some
• 59:27
  Steve: good and bad. Yeah. So, um, I'll
• 59:31
  Norm Murdock: start out with my, my losers because I have several.
• 59:35
  Norm Murdock: Um, one would be this.
• 59:40
  Norm Murdock: I have to go back to George Bush II. Or
• 59:43
  Norm Murdock: shrub, as he is disparagingly called.
• 59:48
  Norm Murdock: So 9/11 happened on his watch. That was September
• 59:52
  Norm Murdock: coming up soon, September of 2011
• 59:56
  Norm Murdock: or 2001, excuse me. No, no,
• 1:00:00
  Norm Murdock: 9/11. So we're talking
• 1:00:05
  Norm Murdock: 15 years ago. So We have
• 1:00:12
  Norm Murdock: this Khalid Sheikh Mohammed guy who has
• 1:00:16
  Norm Murdock: just been told that his trial for being the
• 1:00:20
  Norm Murdock: mastermind behind 4 airliners,
• 1:00:24
  Norm Murdock: over— well, with the firemen and police that have died since
• 1:00:28
  Norm Murdock: from cancers, over 3,500 deaths
• 1:00:32
  Norm Murdock: and all of those families affected, the loss of The Twin
• 1:00:36
  Norm Murdock: Towers, damage to the Pentagon,
• 1:00:39
  Norm Murdock: and thousands of our military lives
• 1:00:43
  Norm Murdock: lost in Afghanistan,
• 1:00:48
  Norm Murdock: lost in Iraq.
• 1:00:52
  Norm Murdock: All of this coming out of 9/11.
• 1:00:57
  Norm Murdock: It pains me that the trial for this guy is scheduled
• 1:01:00
  Norm Murdock: for June Of 2028. And my problem,
• 1:01:05
  Norm Murdock: the reason Bush is a loser, the reason
• 1:01:10
  Norm Murdock: Congress is a loser, and the reason Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is a
• 1:01:13
  Norm Murdock: loser is all because of the way we pursued
• 1:01:18
  Norm Murdock: the attacks on 9/11. We pursued it as if
• 1:01:23
  Norm Murdock: it was a police matter. We did not approach
• 1:01:26
  Norm Murdock: 9/11 as a— like we
• 1:01:30
  Norm Murdock: should have, as a military. It was a war on terrorism.
• 1:01:34
  Steve: Oh, it was sort of this hybrid, which is the worst of both worlds. It
• 1:01:37
  Norm Murdock: was crazy. So we're going to have a trial. This guy
• 1:01:41
  Norm Murdock: should have just been frog-marched in front of a wall and
• 1:01:44
  Norm Murdock: shot out of hand. Yeah. And there may be a reason for a trial. Another,
• 1:01:48
  Steve: there might be a benefit of a trial, and that's exposing facts and circumstances that
• 1:01:51
  Steve: the world— that maybe that people— there's a message that comes out in a public
• 1:01:55
  Steve: trial. But I'm with you. Yeah. So anyway,
• 1:01:59
  Norm Murdock: Amy Acton, she's a loser this week. She lost the
• 1:02:03
  Norm Murdock: endorsement. She's a doctor and she lost the endorsement
• 1:02:07
  Norm Murdock: of the Ohio Medical Association to Vivek Ramaswamy, which
• 1:02:11
  Norm Murdock: I find fascinating because people say, well, he
• 1:02:14
  Norm Murdock: concocted a cancer drug that he then swindled
• 1:02:18
  Norm Murdock: investors by, because he knew it didn't work. You
• 1:02:22
  Norm Murdock: know, that's the That's the loose allegation, but the OMA has
• 1:02:26
  Norm Murdock: endorsed him. And then the WNBA, they, they still can't
• 1:02:30
  Norm Murdock: define a woman, and they're, they're, they're backchanneling
• 1:02:34
  Norm Murdock: that these 2 former male NBA stars
• 1:02:38
  Norm Murdock: that want to come in and play in the WNBA, they're backchanneling, well,
• 1:02:41
  Norm Murdock: they can't play in the WNBA because they're not women. This is the— I'm like,
• 1:02:45
  Norm Murdock: well, wait a minute, you're in favor of not women not
• 1:02:49
  Norm Murdock: girls, meaning boys, playing in high school and college sports.
• 1:02:53
  Steve: This is, this is back to our theme. Totally inconsistent. This is John Adams, right?
• 1:02:56
  Steve: Because I know, I know what's best, even though it might seem inconsistent
• 1:03:00
  Steve: to you, Norm. Right. We know best. We, we got it figured out. We got
• 1:03:03
  Steve: it figured out. So we don't need a consistent standard because we know it when
• 1:03:06
  Steve: we see it. My winners, uh, of course, Dolly Parton.
• 1:03:09
  Steve: Yeah. Who we lost this week. Ohio is the only other state
• 1:03:13
  Norm Murdock: besides Tennessee that has a license
• 1:03:16
  Norm Murdock: plate program to support her Imagination Library
• 1:03:19
  Norm Murdock: charity. Over 300 million books
• 1:03:23
  Norm Murdock: distributed for free to help children
• 1:03:27
  Norm Murdock: with literacy. And my other winner is Roger Penske
• 1:03:32
  Norm Murdock: for staging that Freedom 250 in Washington, D.C. Oh, wasn't that cool?
• 1:03:36
  Norm Murdock: That was just off the hook. So you picked mine. Dolly,
• 1:03:41
  Steve: you know, hats off. Yeah. Off to greater and hopefully to
• 1:03:44
  Steve: meet your savior. She was awesome. I
• 1:03:48
  Steve: remember watching an interview with her and Barbara Walters where Walters was sort of going
• 1:03:52
  Steve: after her for being this phony. Why you dressed like this
• 1:03:56
  Steve: bimbo, whatever. Wow. And go watch the interview because Dolly's awesome. Yeah.
• 1:04:00
  Norm Murdock: Yeah. She's— I know exactly what I'm doing. 25 number one hits, dude. She knew
• 1:04:04
  Steve: exactly what she was doing. Yeah. She knew exactly what she was doing.
• 1:04:08
  Steve: And she did it her way, and good for her. So I didn't always agree
• 1:04:12
  Steve: with everything she said, but she knew exactly— No, no. Uh, I love this story
• 1:04:15
  Norm Murdock: that's suddenly in circulation that
• 1:04:19
  Norm Murdock: when she had nothing and had not yet, um, you know, had
• 1:04:24
  Norm Murdock: taken on board the Porter Wagoner, uh, TV program yet,
• 1:04:28
  Norm Murdock: that she was approached by Colonel Tom Parker,
• 1:04:32
  Norm Murdock: Elvis's crooked business manager, just an
• 1:04:36
  Norm Murdock: awful human being. He approached her and said, hey,
• 1:04:40
  Norm Murdock: little girl, I understand you wrote this great song Elvis would like to
• 1:04:44
  Norm Murdock: record, I Will Always Love You, which of course Whitney Houston
• 1:04:48
  Norm Murdock: famously, uh, turned into a mega hit. Elvis wanted to
• 1:04:52
  Norm Murdock: do that, but what we demand is that you give him
• 1:04:55
  Norm Murdock: co-authorship of that, that he wrote that song. Yeah. She said no. And she said
• 1:05:00
  Norm Murdock: Up yours. She had no money. Yeah, no money, man. I mean, and she's telling
• 1:05:04
  Norm Murdock: Elvis Presley who she wants to go to Nashville. I mean,
• 1:05:08
  Norm Murdock: you know, Elvis owned, uh, Tennessee, and she said
• 1:05:12
  Norm Murdock: no, but he didn't write it, and that would be a lie. And I just,
• 1:05:16
  Norm Murdock: you know, can't— and I don't think Elvis would want that. Hats
• 1:05:20
  Steve: off to her. Yeah, yep. Rest in peace, Dolly. Uh, Jelly
• 1:05:24
  Steve: Roll, up your ass. No, geez, come on, Jelly Roll. I don't care about Jelly
• 1:05:28
  Steve: Roll anyway. And I, you know, I like all art. Like, he's an artist, he's
• 1:05:32
  Steve: an entertainer, and I appreciate what he does. He has a skill set that I
• 1:05:34
  Steve: clearly don't have. And great, it's awesome, right? I choose now
• 1:05:38
  Steve: to say I don't give a rat's ass about your politics. I just don't.
• 1:05:42
  Norm Murdock: No. I like— and if you think that somehow
• 1:05:45
  Steve: you're— I feel like I'm inconsistent here, but I think
• 1:05:49
  Steve: I can justify it. I think I, I think I can sort it through. He's
• 1:05:53
  Steve: entitled to his opinion for sure. Just like you said, we all have our opinions.
• 1:05:56
  Steve: But what bothers me is when these people think that they're— I feel like they're
• 1:06:00
  Steve: saying their opinion is somehow more insightful or
• 1:06:04
  Steve: smarter than mine because he's an entertainer
• 1:06:08
  Steve: or this elite or I'm not. And maybe that's what turns me off. And
• 1:06:13
  Steve: there are lots of people that can choose not to listen to him, and he's
• 1:06:15
  Steve: apparently okay with that. He says, fine, don't listen to me, which I don't anyway,
• 1:06:19
  Steve: and I won't. Right. But there are lots of other artists and entertainers that I
• 1:06:23
  Steve: listen to their— I listen and consume their art, right? Even
• 1:06:26
  Steve: though I know they disagree with me. But as soon as, as soon as they
• 1:06:29
  Steve: start cramming it down my throat like I'm a dummy. Yeah.
• 1:06:33
  Steve: It turns me off. Well, there's a difference between celebrities who just do
• 1:06:37
  Norm Murdock: straight up charity, like we talked about Dolly or
• 1:06:41
  Norm Murdock: Willie Nelson, who did Farm Aid, or
• 1:06:45
  Norm Murdock: Bob Geldof, who did, you know, the charity for Bangladesh.
• 1:06:50
  Norm Murdock: right? The concerts. That's, that's like,
• 1:06:54
  Norm Murdock: that's wonderful. I mean, that, that's, that's a great use of your celebrity
• 1:06:58
  Norm Murdock: is to bring people together. But when you're Bruce Springsteen or Jimmy
• 1:07:02
  Norm Murdock: Kimmel or Jelly Roll and you're using it to divide
• 1:07:06
  Norm Murdock: people and to create enmity, well, then you've gone from
• 1:07:10
  Norm Murdock: being just an entertainer to being a divisive element in our culture.
• 1:07:14
  Steve: So the, the perfect example On the other side, Vanilla Ice saying,
• 1:07:18
  Steve: look guys, we're just having fun, right? Art, have some fun. This is what an
• 1:07:21
  Steve: opportunity to reach everybody, right? And they say, no, you're
• 1:07:25
  Steve: so deplorable that we don't even care if you listen. So, uh, hats off to
• 1:07:29
  Steve: Dolly, up yours Jelly Roll. What a difference right there,
• 1:07:33
  Norm Murdock: huh? Like everything good. Yeah. Everything bad.
• 1:07:36
  Norm Murdock: Yeah. Just, it's, it's, it's, it's, he's squandering his
• 1:07:40
  Norm Murdock: celebrity. It's, it's, it's an opportunity. That's right. Opportunity lost. All
• 1:07:44
  Steve: right. So Common Sense Ohio coming at you each and every week right from the
• 1:07:48
  Steve: middle.