Transcript

Sharri | 13 November · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Live on Sky News. This is Shari Good Evening. Calib
0:06
Speaker 1: Bond in for Shari tonight. Coming up on the program,
0:09
Speaker 1: Environment Minister Tanya Plipasek under more pressure over her dodgy
0:13
Speaker 1: decision to hold a billion dollar gold mine. Now one
0:16
Speaker 1: of the biggest labor affiliated unions has spoken out. Gary
0:20
Speaker 1: Hartgrave and Darren Barnett will join me to talk about that.
0:23
Speaker 1: Also on the show, a teenager who attacked the office
0:26
Speaker 1: of a Jewish MP won't be given a criminal record.
0:29
Speaker 1: Peter Wertheim from the Executive Council of Australian Jury will
0:33
Speaker 1: be on the show. And are you over the age
0:35
Speaker 1: of fifty and drive well, you might be in a
0:38
Speaker 1: bit of trouble because a new report is suggesting that
0:41
Speaker 1: you should be forced to refresh your memory with some
0:44
Speaker 1: mandatory lessons. Car Expert founder Paul Marrick. We'll discuss that
0:48
Speaker 1: with me later now, Tanya plibisec of course, as I
0:51
Speaker 1: said before, pressure is mounting on her, the Environment Minister,
0:55
Speaker 1: over her decision to stop the mcphilamy's gold mine in
0:58
Speaker 1: New South Wales after the biggest union in the country
1:01
Speaker 1: sorry condemned her reasoning. The Australian Workers' Union of course,
1:06
Speaker 1: inextricably linked to the Labor Party, has voted to censium
1:10
Speaker 1: as plibisk for blocking the billion dollar min and over
1:13
Speaker 1: concerns its tailing dam would be detrimental to Aboriginal heritage.
1:18
Speaker 1: The Daily Telegraph reported today that the AWU members passed
1:22
Speaker 1: the motion at the union's national conference in Perth yesterday,
1:26
Speaker 1: accusing her of not providing any real evidence to support
1:29
Speaker 1: her decision. The motion read quote the Minister's declaration relies
1:34
Speaker 1: on a little used provision that affords the Minister wide
1:37
Speaker 1: discretion to make a decision regarding an area after receiving
1:41
Speaker 1: a report seeking to preserve that area from injury or desecration. However,
1:47
Speaker 1: in issuing the declaration blocking the mcphillamy's mind, the Minister
1:51
Speaker 1: failed to produce any evidence used to justify their decision.
1:55
Speaker 1: This amounts to a lack of transparency transparency sorry, and
1:59
Speaker 1: gives rise to around rigor and fairness in the decision
2:03
Speaker 1: making process. AWU New South Wales Secretary Tony Callanan also
2:08
Speaker 1: told The Daily Telegraph that the decision to block the
2:11
Speaker 1: mcphillamy's mine without a shred of evidence is an insult
2:16
Speaker 1: to the workers of Blaney and every community that depends
2:20
Speaker 1: on mining. When six hundred livelihoods are on the line,
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Speaker 1: the least the government can do is be transparent. AWU
2:27
Speaker 1: members and the entire mining community deserve better than decisions
2:32
Speaker 1: made in the dark. The AWU stands with the people
2:35
Speaker 1: of Blaney and demands a fair process. The Minister should
2:39
Speaker 1: put all the evidence on the table for all to see.
2:43
Speaker 1: The workers of Blaney deserve far better. The AWU won't
2:48
Speaker 1: stand by while six hundred jobs are lost because of
2:51
Speaker 1: political games played behind closed doors. And that's the real
2:55
Speaker 1: point here. Was the decision to block a billion dollar
2:59
Speaker 1: mine on the Bay of Aboriginal Heritage, even though it
3:02
Speaker 1: wasn't opposed by the local Aboriginal Land Council a decision
3:06
Speaker 1: based in fact and what is best for the environment,
3:10
Speaker 1: or would it be because it would best appeal to
3:12
Speaker 1: the voters of miss Flipper six, inner city seat of Sydney.
3:16
Speaker 1: We know, as I just said that the Local Aboriginal
3:19
Speaker 1: Land Council, the body authorized to advise on matters of
3:22
Speaker 1: cultural heritage and the like, was not opposed to the project.
3:26
Speaker 1: His former New South Wales Aboriginal Land Council Chairman Roy RC.
3:32
Speaker 2: Just for the record, Chris, the Orange Low Abrige Land
3:37
Speaker 2: Council wasn't opposed to the mind exactly right. They wasn't opposed.
3:41
Speaker 2: So what that says to me is that obviously they
3:45
Speaker 2: were happy with the surveys, the side assessments, etc. Etc.
3:51
Speaker 2: So what's happened here is the minister at the Commonwealth
3:56
Speaker 2: level as listened to another group, and that's very very concerning.
4:04
Speaker 1: We know that one of the indigenous people whose submission
4:06
Speaker 1: helped inform Miss Plippersc's decision, artist nrII Reynolds, sent in
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Speaker 1: a series of her own paintings to explain why the
4:14
Speaker 1: mine should not be allowed to go ahead. We know
4:17
Speaker 1: that the artists who painted the blue Banded Bee Dreaming
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Speaker 1: story mural that was used in Miss plippert Sx's evidence
4:23
Speaker 1: to halt the mine was a member of the main
4:26
Speaker 1: group that fought against the mine, and that the Orange
4:28
Speaker 1: Local Aboriginal Land Council had never previously heard of this story.
4:33
Speaker 1: Miss Plipersek, in her reasons, said she was satisfied that
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Speaker 1: the proprietary and pecuniary impacts to the proponent and others
4:41
Speaker 1: do not outweigh the irreversible damage and permanent loss to
4:45
Speaker 1: the Aboriginal cultural heritage in the declared area, despite the
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Speaker 1: fact that supposed cultural heritage is disputed. She also said,
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Speaker 1: as I'm sure you know that the mining company Regis
4:58
Speaker 1: should just find another way to do the project.
5:01
Speaker 3: I haven't blocked a gold mine. I've said that the
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Speaker 3: tailing stam that's proposed for the Goal mine can't be
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Speaker 3: built on the headwaters and springs of the Belubula River.
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Speaker 3: My decision applies to sixteen percent of a two and
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Speaker 3: a half thousand hectare site, and I've made very clear
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Speaker 3: that if the company goes ahead and moves the tailing dam,
5:19
Speaker 3: and they've said they've investigated thirty different design options for
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Speaker 3: the tailing stam, then the project can go ahead.
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Speaker 1: But Regis has now gone to the federal court to
5:28
Speaker 1: have the decision overturned because it says the mine is
5:31
Speaker 1: now unviable. Miss Blibasek still hasn't truly answered why this
5:36
Speaker 1: decision was made. She hasn't given any real evidence. She
5:39
Speaker 1: hasn't answered the competing stories between Aboriginal groups, or why
5:44
Speaker 1: she took the word of artists over the local Aboriginal
5:47
Speaker 1: Land Council and now the biggest union in the country.
5:51
Speaker 1: Labor aligned Union says that she is playing political games.
5:55
Speaker 1: Is she the environment minister or the minister for sandbagging?
5:59
Speaker 1: Lane votes against the Greens. Well, it's now been confirmed
6:06
Speaker 1: that next year cigarettes will need to have a health warning,
6:09
Speaker 1: not only printed on the packet with that lovely baby
6:12
Speaker 1: pooh green color, but on the cigarettes themselves. By April,
6:17
Speaker 1: every cigarette has to have a warning on it. This
6:20
Speaker 1: is some of what you can expect.
6:23
Speaker 4: Some examples of the messages that might be used or
6:25
Speaker 4: that are open for public consultation are toxic addiction. Poisons
6:30
Speaker 4: in every puff causes sixteen cancers, damages your lungs.
6:36
Speaker 1: Can we just take a moment to acknowledge just how
6:40
Speaker 1: stupid that is? Does anyone in government, in public health
6:45
Speaker 1: anywhere believe this is actually going to stop anyone from smoking? Seriously,
6:52
Speaker 1: if you've managed to get past the decades of public
6:55
Speaker 1: health education, the anti smoking ads, the fact that cigarette
6:58
Speaker 1: ads are banned, the brow beating from the health teachers
7:02
Speaker 1: at school, the concern chats from friends and family, Oh,
7:05
Speaker 1: I think you should give up? Have you tried giving up?
7:08
Speaker 1: That's bad for you?
7:09
Speaker 5: You know?
7:10
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, there's the dirty looks from busybodies
7:14
Speaker 1: on the street, the lecture every time you go to
7:16
Speaker 1: the doctor, the fact that you have to huddle in
7:18
Speaker 1: some hidden corner somewhere to smoke in public, and of
7:21
Speaker 1: course those graphic warnings on the front of the packet.
7:25
Speaker 1: And somehow, if you've managed to get past all of that,
7:30
Speaker 1: you open up the packet, you pull out a diary,
7:33
Speaker 1: You see a trite slogan written on the side of
7:35
Speaker 1: the filter, and you go, that's it. I can't smoke.
7:39
Speaker 1: I've just realized that it's bad for me. I mean,
7:42
Speaker 1: there are only two reasons anyone is still smoking. They're
7:45
Speaker 1: either thoroughly addicted and no matter how hard they try,
7:49
Speaker 1: they can't give it up, or they thoroughly enjoy it,
7:52
Speaker 1: and no matter how hard you try to make them
7:54
Speaker 1: give it up, they won't. No one is sucked into
7:58
Speaker 1: smoking anymore, minority activity hated by most people. Writing that
8:04
Speaker 1: death is near on the side of a cigarette isn't
8:07
Speaker 1: going to turn the dial. Honestly, how can anyone with
8:12
Speaker 1: even half a brain think that this is actually going
8:16
Speaker 1: to do anything except perhaps drive even more people to
8:20
Speaker 1: the illegal tobacco market, which is huge. It's about a
8:24
Speaker 1: third of the entire tobacco market in Australia on current estimations. Now,
8:29
Speaker 1: that's tax that the government misses out on on those cigarettes,
8:32
Speaker 1: and its money, as I've talked about many times before,
8:35
Speaker 1: that ends up in the hands of organized crime gangs
8:38
Speaker 1: that then use it for their grisly activities, including murder
8:41
Speaker 1: and sex trafficking, so on and so forth. Now, one
8:45
Speaker 1: of the problems with this new health warning business is
8:48
Speaker 1: that in order for it to be done, manufacturers have
8:51
Speaker 1: to buy new equipment and they have to change their
8:53
Speaker 1: practices to move in line with the new rules. These regulations,
8:57
Speaker 1: by the way, were only sent out at the end
8:59
Speaker 1: of life last month, and they come in in April.
9:02
Speaker 1: It's not all that long. It's less than six months,
9:05
Speaker 1: and shops will be allowed to sell existing stock for
9:09
Speaker 1: three months from April, but after that anything left over
9:12
Speaker 1: will have to be pulped and any new stock will
9:15
Speaker 1: have to have the warnings on them. Now, because of
9:18
Speaker 1: the tight time frames to get all this done, there's
9:21
Speaker 1: concern from retailers that there will be a temporary supply
9:24
Speaker 1: crunch on cigarettes, which would make people even more likely
9:28
Speaker 1: to seek out the illicit product. Yes, even though it
9:31
Speaker 1: is illegal, you can buy it in pretty much any
9:33
Speaker 1: convenience store or tobaggonists in the country. And if you
9:37
Speaker 1: talk to the independent supermarkets and they have, they'll tell
9:41
Speaker 1: you that they are losing money hand over fist on cigarettes,
9:44
Speaker 1: not because fewer people are smoking, but because their customers
9:48
Speaker 1: are going to illegal shops down the road. And would
9:51
Speaker 1: you believe it, the people who would normally go into
9:53
Speaker 1: a supermarket and buy cigarettes also buy other things in small,
9:57
Speaker 1: local independent supermarkets, losing revenue that they could spend on
10:02
Speaker 1: employing local people. So did the Health Department take into
10:06
Speaker 1: account the illegal market when they made their decision?
10:10
Speaker 6: I mean, I suppose that whether the rubber hits Erona
10:13
Speaker 6: raises before in this committee, is every smoker I know
10:16
Speaker 6: these days buys it's colloquily known as chop chop, not
10:21
Speaker 6: necessarily chopped up, but just buys illegal tobacco. Presumably this
10:28
Speaker 6: is going to play into that market's hands, mayn't it?
10:30
Speaker 6: I mean, is there been an analysis of that that
10:32
Speaker 6: if wholesome manufacturers can't make these legal obligations, the market
10:37
Speaker 6: will just get filled with illegal tobacco. Has that risk
10:41
Speaker 6: been considered?
10:43
Speaker 7: Senator? I think Australia has one of the strongest records
10:45
Speaker 7: in tobacco control in the world, which I think we're
10:48
Speaker 7: rightly proud of.
10:49
Speaker 6: But that doesn't answer my question with all respects, because
10:52
Speaker 6: I'm sure I totally agree with that, but everybody would
10:54
Speaker 6: agree with that.
10:55
Speaker 1: No answer there, So Matt Canavan tried again.
10:59
Speaker 6: My question is whether or not the Department, as part
11:02
Speaker 6: of good policy making practices, has analyzed the risk of
11:06
Speaker 6: these obligations, especially the accelerated time frame to introduce these regulations,
11:11
Speaker 6: could have an impact on encouraging more As a tobacco.
11:15
Speaker 7: Senator, so I think the role of the Department in
11:17
Speaker 7: terms of the Health portfolio is to continue the best
11:22
Speaker 7: measures possible to avoid people taking up smoking, whether that
11:25
Speaker 7: is legal or illegal tobacco. The best measure against people
11:29
Speaker 7: is dissuading them from smoking in the first place, which
11:32
Speaker 7: has been the focus of this legend.
11:33
Speaker 6: Can you answer my question with all respect.
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Speaker 1: I mean not just it's not Health's job to do that.
11:38
Speaker 6: I mean it's not a health job to evaluate the risks.
11:43
Speaker 1: Health comes Finance Minister Katie Gallahers says it's not a
11:48
Speaker 1: matter for the Health Department. They wonder they come up
11:51
Speaker 1: with such hair brained ideas. Now you can take this
11:54
Speaker 1: to the bank. This will do nothing to stop people
11:58
Speaker 1: from smoking. It's all about health. Well, what about the
12:01
Speaker 1: health of people that he's threatened every day by organized
12:05
Speaker 1: crime gangs which, thanks to the ridiculous price of cigarettes
12:08
Speaker 1: caused by the federal government's extortion at taxes, now has
12:12
Speaker 1: a lucrative market in illicit tobacco. How stupid do they think?
12:17
Speaker 1: We are down in Victoria where more than one hundred
12:20
Speaker 1: tobacconists have been firebombed thanks to gangs fighting over control
12:24
Speaker 1: of the illicit tobacco market. The Allen government is now
12:27
Speaker 1: planning to introduce the strictest tobacco licensing laws in the
12:30
Speaker 1: country to try to shut down illegal sellers. But this
12:34
Speaker 1: shouldn't be the state's problem. This is a mess created
12:38
Speaker 1: by the federal government through extortion at tax and they
12:42
Speaker 1: ought to be the ones to clean it up. Lots
12:48
Speaker 1: to get through tonight, Let's jump straight into my panel,
12:51
Speaker 1: Sky and News contributor Gary Hardgrave and former Press secretary
12:54
Speaker 1: to Julia Gillard Darren Barnett. First, let's talk about the
12:58
Speaker 1: news from the AWE today. They've had to go at
13:01
Speaker 1: Tanya Plibistick over the decision over the mcphillamy's gold mine Gary.
13:06
Speaker 1: You know, the longer this goes on, the dodgy it
13:10
Speaker 1: seems to be Tanua. Pipistick still has not answered why
13:14
Speaker 1: there are discrepancies between the advice she took from one
13:18
Speaker 1: Aboriginal group and the advice that comes from the actual
13:22
Speaker 1: local Aboriginal Land council. Why can't she simply tell us what's.
13:26
Speaker 8: Going on.
13:29
Speaker 9: Because she has no idea what she's doing. This woman
13:31
Speaker 9: is a walking, talking sovereign risk to Australia. She is
13:38
Speaker 9: the member for Sydney. She lives in an isolated view
13:42
Speaker 9: of the world, she thinks, and she's keeping the Greens
13:45
Speaker 9: at bay in her electorate. There's coverning her seat, so
13:49
Speaker 9: to speak. She thinks she knows best. She's morally and
13:52
Speaker 9: intellectually superior to anybody who actually wants to do something
13:55
Speaker 9: practical like well, create jobs, create mining job. She did
14:00
Speaker 9: the same thing to a marvelous proposal to deal with
14:05
Speaker 9: a jetty landing area and turn it into a marvelous
14:08
Speaker 9: housing development in the eastern Bayside areas around Brisbane. In Cleveland,
14:14
Speaker 9: she killed off eleven billion dollars worth of likely economic
14:19
Speaker 9: activity in that area alone, it was going to create
14:21
Speaker 9: many thousands of jobs and homes for hundreds, if not
14:25
Speaker 9: more people. I mean, this woman really doesn't get it.
14:29
Speaker 9: She doesn't understand and I think she's second only to
14:31
Speaker 9: Chris Bowen when it comes to a genuine risk to
14:35
Speaker 9: economic viability. That's a big statement. And it all comes
14:38
Speaker 9: back to the bloke who appointed her, the bloke and
14:40
Speaker 9: the seat next door and the other inner city seat
14:43
Speaker 9: in Sydney, in Gradlar. I mean, this is a government
14:47
Speaker 9: that doesn't know real Australia at all, presumes it does,
14:52
Speaker 9: cherry picks the advice they want to suit the narrative
14:55
Speaker 9: in their own area. It's a real peril and she's
14:58
Speaker 9: got to go, and I hope the Greens will knock
15:00
Speaker 9: her off and put her out of the misery.
15:02
Speaker 1: Frankly, well, I'll declare that I live in Graindler and
15:06
Speaker 1: I will personally say that I don't live in real Australia.
15:08
Speaker 1: I've seen some of my neighbors, but Darren, obviously the
15:11
Speaker 1: AWU is aligned to a different faction to Tania plibisk
15:16
Speaker 1: But how worried should she be about the union movement
15:19
Speaker 1: getting involved in this fight?
15:21
Speaker 5: It is actually a pretty significant step, Okaylor. I agree
15:24
Speaker 5: with that, and therefore, whether it's through national conference or
15:28
Speaker 5: whether it's through the soft pressure that comes via the
15:32
Speaker 5: union movement into the Labor Party, you don't want affiliated
15:36
Speaker 5: unions being opposed to decisions that are made by government.
15:41
Speaker 5: But a couple of things to unpack. Firstly, the Greens
15:44
Speaker 5: won't win tan your seat while she's there, and I
15:47
Speaker 5: don't think the decision is based on any particular view
15:51
Speaker 5: towards assuaging the voters of her electorate. I think what
15:57
Speaker 5: you'll find Gary, I hope you agree with me. The
15:59
Speaker 5: Epps Act came in early two thousands, think Robert Hill
16:03
Speaker 5: was Environment Minister, and I've never heard an environment minister
16:06
Speaker 5: since who loves that Act. It's a difficult act to administer.
16:10
Speaker 5: It's a very opaque document. It's a complicated set of
16:14
Speaker 5: rules and criteria, and I think that's part of the
16:18
Speaker 5: reason why Labour's trying to bring in a national EPA
16:21
Speaker 5: and some other new rules. So I think you can
16:24
Speaker 5: criticize a lot of decisions under the EPBC. Maybe Tanny's
16:28
Speaker 5: got it right, maybe she's got it wrong, and we
16:31
Speaker 5: will see when that pressure comes to her head whether
16:33
Speaker 5: the decision remains or whether her argument that sixteen percent
16:38
Speaker 5: of the land in question is what she is trying
16:40
Speaker 5: to protect. Maybe that prevails, we will see she will
16:44
Speaker 5: lose some skin, but I spect she'll dig down on
16:47
Speaker 5: her decision and unless there's new evidence, we're not going
16:50
Speaker 5: to see a change.
16:51
Speaker 1: And that's of it. It will play out in the courts,
16:53
Speaker 1: of course. Now there's another ordinary poll result for the
16:56
Speaker 1: Albanezi government that the latest sec Ugate Move of the
17:00
Speaker 1: Nation survey found that the coalition has overtaken Labor on
17:04
Speaker 1: cost of living management for the first time since the election,
17:08
Speaker 1: and seventy two percent of voters also said that cost
17:10
Speaker 1: of living was their top issue, which is no great surprise,
17:13
Speaker 1: but Garia, I think it proves people are losing confidence
17:17
Speaker 1: in the ability of the federal government to actually deliver
17:20
Speaker 1: any kind of financial benefit to them.
17:24
Speaker 9: A part of the problem is government is infering in
17:27
Speaker 9: everybody's lives in every possible way these days, and what
17:30
Speaker 9: people really want is for government to get out of
17:33
Speaker 9: their lives. You know, we can trust private citizens to
17:36
Speaker 9: work out what's best for them. We actually don't need
17:39
Speaker 9: to be losing enormous amounts of the wages that our
17:42
Speaker 9: bosses pay in the form of compulsory superannuation. We should
17:46
Speaker 9: be allowing people to actually make use of their money
17:50
Speaker 9: now today to deal with the problems they have today,
17:54
Speaker 9: to invest into the future. And that means for younger Australians,
17:57
Speaker 9: let them access their super and let them actually get
18:00
Speaker 9: that super in place to buy a house. And once
18:02
Speaker 9: that house, if they sell it at a later stage,
18:05
Speaker 9: they can repay their super account at a later point.
18:07
Speaker 9: I mean, why is it that government wants to control
18:10
Speaker 9: all of our actions and I think the cost of
18:12
Speaker 9: living thing. Every time they put pressure on supermarkets and
18:16
Speaker 9: say we're going to crack down on supermarket pricing, the
18:19
Speaker 9: first person in the supply chain, the farmers or the
18:22
Speaker 9: producers of that item, they're the ones they're going to
18:24
Speaker 9: suffer the most. So again, I think people are able
18:27
Speaker 9: to work this thing out like what they've done in America,
18:30
Speaker 9: where they've gone against woke and stood for the workers.
18:33
Speaker 9: And that's where I think a lot of people's heads
18:35
Speaker 9: are at right now. I think there's a big wave
18:37
Speaker 9: coming and that's going to swamp this government because it's
18:40
Speaker 9: lost its way. It's just simply lost its way.
18:43
Speaker 1: I think the Prime minister should be worried, Darren, because
18:46
Speaker 1: if you look at our western allies, the US, the UK,
18:49
Speaker 1: leaders that have presided over cost of living crises have
18:53
Speaker 1: been booted, and the one bit of relief that Albo
18:57
Speaker 1: would be hoping for, which is of course, is an
18:59
Speaker 1: interest rate cut, may will not happen by the time
19:02
Speaker 1: he goes to a federal election. I think this is
19:05
Speaker 1: actually starting to be the biggest thorn in his side.
19:09
Speaker 5: Look, the numbers are not the trend is not his friend.
19:11
Speaker 5: I think it's fair to say. And the numbers it's
19:14
Speaker 5: still close thirty to twenty nine percent, but equally that
19:18
Speaker 5: margin was much greater as little as a few months ago.
19:22
Speaker 5: So there is work to do for the Albanesi government,
19:25
Speaker 5: that's for sure. And I think that rate cut is
19:28
Speaker 5: an important part of their re election strategy, that that's
19:32
Speaker 5: what they're waiting for before they pulled the trigger for
19:34
Speaker 5: an election. I look through that poll. They do say
19:38
Speaker 5: that sixty six percent of voters or two thirds of voters,
19:41
Speaker 5: that it would not impact their vote if there was
19:43
Speaker 5: a rate cut. I'm not sure about that. I think
19:45
Speaker 5: if people thought we had turned the corner economically, the
19:49
Speaker 5: support would be much stronger. So it's to me, it's
19:52
Speaker 5: very much a question of when will we get a
19:55
Speaker 5: rate cut and will it be in time ahead of
19:58
Speaker 5: the election.
19:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, they'll certainly be begging for a rape cut. And
20:02
Speaker 1: I mean I said more than a year ago that
20:04
Speaker 1: if you had a rape cut there would be an
20:07
Speaker 1: early election. Now I don't know that we're actually going
20:09
Speaker 1: to get her an early election, but you know, I
20:12
Speaker 1: would have thought that was the easiest thing to do
20:14
Speaker 1: very quickly before we go. I don't know whether you
20:16
Speaker 1: saw this story today. I couldn't get over it. Some
20:19
Speaker 1: people need to get it through their heads. I think
20:21
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump is actually the president the majority of
20:24
Speaker 1: American voters just chose. I mean, you think putting a
20:27
Speaker 1: Maga hat on would be pretty safe thing to do now.
20:30
Speaker 1: Not for singer a Hailey Mary. She's an Australian singer,
20:33
Speaker 1: lead singer of the Jezebels. They had a bit of success.
20:36
Speaker 1: She put a photo up online of herself in a
20:38
Speaker 1: Maga hat in a post opposing the Misinformation Bill, and
20:42
Speaker 1: she's now effectively been canceled. She told The Herald's son
20:45
Speaker 1: that the fallout was everything you could imagine. I probably
20:48
Speaker 1: no longer have a music career in the way that
20:51
Speaker 1: I knew it. I've lost some friends, though I hope
20:53
Speaker 1: that's temporary. I've lost some of the infrastructure of my business, publicity,
20:58
Speaker 1: band members, members, a show, my album launch revenue, and
21:04
Speaker 1: quite a few followers. You know, Gary, this wouldn't happen
21:07
Speaker 1: if you put on a Waltz Harris hat. Apart from
21:12
Speaker 1: looking like a loser, you wouldn't get this kind of response.
21:18
Speaker 9: I got three Make America Great hats at home, and
21:22
Speaker 9: I was thinking about wearing them out. But I've been
21:24
Speaker 9: warned that maybe I might not get good service or
21:27
Speaker 9: someone wants to shout me at coffee. Look, by the way,
21:29
Speaker 9: I think that Donald Trump will be a revelation that
21:31
Speaker 9: will reshape the world for good, and I'm really excited
21:35
Speaker 9: about what's to come. The announcements he's made today. The
21:37
Speaker 9: way people are dissing Pete Hexseth as the new Defense
21:41
Speaker 9: Secretary's got me worried. This bloke actually cares about veterans,
21:45
Speaker 9: loves his country. I think he's a fantastic, from the
21:48
Speaker 9: troops up kind of Defense secretary, and he's not part
21:51
Speaker 9: of the Washington swamp. We need people like that in Australia,
21:54
Speaker 9: and somebody said to me before we see today, the
21:57
Speaker 9: only person they can think of that would stare down
22:00
Speaker 9: waste in government like Elon Musk has challenged to do
22:03
Speaker 9: and Ramaswami would be Gina Reinhardt. You think Peter dunt't
22:08
Speaker 9: got offer the gig? I don't think so.
22:11
Speaker 1: Gary Darren, thank you so much for your time. All right,
22:14
Speaker 1: let's move on, shall we? Cop twenty nine? The big
22:17
Speaker 1: climate conflab in Azerbaijan seems to be going well because
22:21
Speaker 1: China has demanded that developed countries, including Australia, cough up
22:25
Speaker 1: one point eight trillion dollars a year to help out
22:29
Speaker 1: developing nations with climate change. And the best bit, China
22:33
Speaker 1: wouldn't have to contribute a cent because it is still
22:36
Speaker 1: considered a developing country. So we and the UK and
22:39
Speaker 1: the US, et cetera, would have to pay China, one
22:42
Speaker 1: of the biggest economies in the world, to fix the
22:45
Speaker 1: global temperature LNPMP, and former Speaker Andrew Wallace joins me,
22:51
Speaker 1: Now you know I actually have to kind of hand
22:53
Speaker 1: it to jijingping here with this idea that we would
22:58
Speaker 1: be giving money to them. I'm sorry, I think we've
23:01
Speaker 1: just lost Andrew there, We'll go to a quick break
23:03
Speaker 1: and come back. Don't go away. My apologies for that
23:11
Speaker 1: brief interruption. It would see Andrew Wallace has lost power.
23:14
Speaker 1: I believe he's on the phone to Blackout Bowen right now,
23:17
Speaker 1: trying to sort that out so we can get him
23:18
Speaker 1: back later. Now it sounds like racing cars might be
23:21
Speaker 1: saved for a little while longer. Willowbank Raceway near Brisbane
23:25
Speaker 1: has banned electric vehicles from the track because it says
23:29
Speaker 1: they're too dangerous to compete.
23:31
Speaker 10: Now.
23:31
Speaker 1: This has happened at racetracks in the US and the
23:33
Speaker 1: UK too. Willowbank Raceway said one of the big problems
23:37
Speaker 1: with evs was that batteries released toxic and flammable gas
23:40
Speaker 1: after a collision, and there was no guarantee that a
23:43
Speaker 1: car could be completely off after a crash, so the
23:47
Speaker 1: chassis could essentially be electrified and kill medics if they
23:50
Speaker 1: were trying to pull a driver from a car. To
23:53
Speaker 1: discuss this further, I'm joined by the founder of car
23:55
Speaker 1: expert dot com, Paul Marrick. Paul had to see it happening,
24:01
Speaker 1: because I mean, hell, imagine going along to a racetrack
24:03
Speaker 1: and watching an electric vehicle go down a drag strip
24:06
Speaker 1: or something. I don't think it would have quite the
24:09
Speaker 1: same effect, but it does raise questions that should then
24:12
Speaker 1: be applied to the road, I think. I mean, if
24:15
Speaker 1: they're concerned that on a racetrack they can't ensure that
24:19
Speaker 1: the car is not live after a crash and that
24:22
Speaker 1: it could potentially harm or electrocute first responders, that would
24:27
Speaker 1: presumably be the same on the road too.
24:30
Speaker 10: Yeah.
24:30
Speaker 11: Absolutely, And what we're seeing as well is a lot
24:32
Speaker 11: of apartments, apartment building owners and body corporates are actually
24:36
Speaker 11: banning the installation of electric vehicle charges. A lot of
24:39
Speaker 11: this has stemmed as well from e scooters and other
24:42
Speaker 11: sort of lithium powered devices catching fire and hurting people.
24:47
Speaker 11: And it's the same story here at racetracks. They just
24:49
Speaker 11: don't know how to deal with these things, and as
24:51
Speaker 11: a result of that, insurance costs are going through the
24:54
Speaker 11: roof and it's forcing a lot of these racetracks a
24:56
Speaker 11: just banned electric vehicles entiring.
24:59
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how you could potentially have electric race cars.
25:04
Speaker 1: I mean, I know they go fast, but surely a
25:07
Speaker 1: large part of what attracts people to a racetrack and
25:11
Speaker 1: to cars in general, is the noise that they make. Now.
25:14
Speaker 1: I know they'll say I will put a computer in
25:16
Speaker 1: it that makes a noise through a speaker or something,
25:19
Speaker 1: But to me, it's just not the same. It can't
25:22
Speaker 1: be the same. People wouldn't want to watch I wouldn't
25:25
Speaker 1: think electric cars going silently around Bathurst, would they? Yeah?
25:31
Speaker 11: Look, I mean it'd be a safe environment for babies,
25:33
Speaker 11: you'd be able to sleep, not not having to worry
25:35
Speaker 11: too much about that. But definitely for petrol heads you've
25:38
Speaker 11: got to have noise. I mean, it is just not
25:40
Speaker 11: the same to have these things as quiet as they are.
25:42
Speaker 11: There was actually a video released yesterday on the Internet
25:45
Speaker 11: of Geomi, which is a smartphone manufacturer that's now got
25:49
Speaker 11: into making cars. One of their cars had a major
25:52
Speaker 11: brake failure on a racetrack and had this catastrophic crash.
25:56
Speaker 11: And to me, it's just one of these things that
25:59
Speaker 11: just baffles logic. If you can't hear it, it's not exciting.
26:02
Speaker 11: It should be putting yourself at risk.
26:04
Speaker 1: I'm sure the great Paul Murray, who is back in
26:07
Speaker 1: the Man Cave tonight, by the way, would have some
26:09
Speaker 1: thoughts about that. Some other driving news a controversial reporter
26:12
Speaker 1: suggested that Australians aged over fifty should be subjected to
26:17
Speaker 1: mandatory driving lessons. This is a study from the University
26:20
Speaker 1: of New South Wales in Sydney. It suggests that drivers
26:24
Speaker 1: with or without clean driving records should be re examined
26:27
Speaker 1: in order to make the road safer in Australia and
26:30
Speaker 1: make sure that their skills are still up to scratch.
26:32
Speaker 1: What do you think of that for an idea?
26:35
Speaker 11: Look, I know it's going to be a little cheap
26:37
Speaker 11: coming from me who's just under fifty, But to me,
26:40
Speaker 11: it's just like a pilot. If you told me that
26:43
Speaker 11: the pilot at the front of the plane last did
26:45
Speaker 11: his pilot's test fifteen twenty thirty years ago, I go,
26:50
Speaker 11: I don't think I want to be on this plane.
26:51
Speaker 11: And I think for all drivers, let alone people over fifty,
26:54
Speaker 11: you really should be getting reassessed more regularly because it
26:57
Speaker 11: is one of these things. Road rules change constantly, and
27:00
Speaker 11: you want to be on top of it. You want
27:01
Speaker 11: to know what's going on. And I think it's only
27:03
Speaker 11: fair that we are having more and more regular testing,
27:06
Speaker 11: especially for older Australians who may have first got their
27:08
Speaker 11: licenses decades ago.
27:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I don't think it particularly matters about
27:13
Speaker 1: age either. To be perfectly honest, if it was a
27:16
Speaker 1: rule that you had to have another assessment every ten
27:18
Speaker 1: years when you renew your license or something, I think
27:21
Speaker 1: that would be perfectly reasonable, because you know, you do
27:24
Speaker 1: tend to get stuck in your habits and forget a
27:27
Speaker 1: few rules and whatever, and surely you want everyone to
27:30
Speaker 1: be as safe as possible on the road. Paul, thank
27:32
Speaker 1: you for coming on the program. Now back to where
27:34
Speaker 1: I was before we had the power outage, COP twenty nine.
27:38
Speaker 1: The big climate conflict going on in Azerbaijan is going well,
27:42
Speaker 1: apparently because China has demanded that developed countries, including Australia,
27:47
Speaker 1: cough up one point eight trillion dollars a year to
27:50
Speaker 1: help out developing nations with climate change. And of course
27:53
Speaker 1: China wouldn't have to contribute a cent because it's still
27:57
Speaker 1: considered a quote unquote developing country, So we, the UK,
28:02
Speaker 1: the US, et cetera, would have to pay China, one
28:05
Speaker 1: of the biggest economies in the world, to apparently fix
28:08
Speaker 1: the global temperature LNPMP, and former Speaker Andrew Wallace joins me,
28:13
Speaker 1: Now you've made it out of the power outage.
28:15
Speaker 12: Mate, I have chailed that was very wild and will
28:19
Speaker 12: we here, I got to tell you that much good.
28:22
Speaker 1: Now, I've actually got to give Jijiping a little bit
28:24
Speaker 1: of credit here because I think he's just gently needling
28:28
Speaker 1: the Western world about the way that they are carrying
28:31
Speaker 1: on about climate change, saying, you know, why don't you
28:34
Speaker 1: put your money where your mouth is. You've got to
28:36
Speaker 1: pay us, you know, one of the biggest emitters in
28:38
Speaker 1: the world if you want climate change to be fixed.
28:41
Speaker 1: In a funny way, I think it actually shows up
28:44
Speaker 1: how ridiculous a lot of the response to climate change
28:47
Speaker 1: at a governmental level is.
28:51
Speaker 12: Yeah, look, this is a country that is classifying as
28:57
Speaker 12: developing and yet it has hundred satellites. You're gonna have
29:02
Speaker 12: many satellites Australia owns and operates.
29:05
Speaker 10: Go on, I'll tell you none. None, none. So we've
29:10
Speaker 10: got a developing country.
29:12
Speaker 12: That's so called developing country China, that has a very
29:16
Speaker 12: very mature space industry, and Australia is regarded as a
29:21
Speaker 12: developed country, and yet the federal government continues to rip
29:26
Speaker 12: funding out of the space program in Australia such that
29:30
Speaker 12: we have zero zero satellites.
29:34
Speaker 10: So you tell me. Can anyone explain to me.
29:37
Speaker 12: Why we are still having to consider China as developing
29:42
Speaker 12: Australia as developed and we are having the fund and
29:45
Speaker 12: prop up. It just makes no seeds. Absolutely, it makes
29:49
Speaker 12: no sense.
29:50
Speaker 1: No, it's ridiculous. So you may as well call it
29:52
Speaker 1: a coal rebate because of because we sell our coal
29:55
Speaker 1: to China because we can't burn it here that it'd
29:57
Speaker 1: be bad for the world. But it's okay if China
29:59
Speaker 1: burns it so they can give us the money for
30:01
Speaker 1: the coal and then we can give it back to
30:03
Speaker 1: them in some sort of climate subsidy. Great idea. Now,
30:06
Speaker 1: Labor social media legislation. It's probably one of the only
30:09
Speaker 1: bills that will be passed between now and Christmas. The
30:12
Speaker 1: opposition has a course back to ban for under sixteens,
30:16
Speaker 1: and on the face of it, you know, I'd have
30:18
Speaker 1: to say it's hard to oppose. Who isn't sympathetic to
30:21
Speaker 1: the idea that kids shouldn't be on social media. We
30:23
Speaker 1: know the harms, but I feel like this has been rushed.
30:26
Speaker 1: There's no clear idea of how it will work. The
30:29
Speaker 1: planned trial hasn't even happened yet. You've got serious concerns
30:34
Speaker 1: that have emerged out of Senate estimates about how verification
30:38
Speaker 1: systems would work. I think we're all sympathetic to the idea.
30:43
Speaker 1: I'm just not sure the government has gone about it
30:45
Speaker 1: the right way.
30:49
Speaker 12: Well, Caleb, I don't think the government has gone about
30:52
Speaker 12: it the right way. On that, I agree with you,
30:54
Speaker 12: But I am a big supporter of increasing the age
30:58
Speaker 12: to sixteen. In fact, I was pushing for this from
31:02
Speaker 12: as early as twenty twenty one, so I've been working
31:06
Speaker 12: in this space for a long time. I think it's
31:09
Speaker 12: really important that people understand the dangers and perils that
31:13
Speaker 12: we're seeing on social media now, particularly for young people
31:17
Speaker 12: under the age of sixteen, and young people just simply
31:20
Speaker 12: don't have the maturity to be able to be dealing
31:22
Speaker 12: with the sort of pressures that they are that's being
31:24
Speaker 12: brought to bear on them. We saw the Primary School
31:28
Speaker 12: Principles coming out today supporting the increase in age to sixteen.
31:33
Speaker 12: But the reality, Caleb, is that the Prime Minister has
31:37
Speaker 12: been dragged, kicking and screaming on this.
31:40
Speaker 10: Twelve months ago, Peter Dutton and.
31:42
Speaker 12: David Colman moved a private members bill calling for an
31:46
Speaker 12: age verification trial, and the Prime minister rejected that.
31:51
Speaker 10: Labor rejected that.
31:53
Speaker 12: Now six months ago, Peter again, Peter Dutton again tried to.
31:59
Speaker 10: Push through.
32:01
Speaker 12: A girl which would see and in fact Peter Dutton
32:05
Speaker 12: committed in his first one hundred days to ensuring that
32:09
Speaker 12: age sixteen the social media.
32:12
Speaker 10: Now I've just finished, or just about.
32:14
Speaker 12: To wrap up in the next couple of months, a
32:17
Speaker 12: social media inquiry. I've listened to the testimony of parents
32:22
Speaker 12: talking about some of their kids who have taken their
32:25
Speaker 12: own lives because of this bullying.
32:27
Speaker 10: And we're talking about very, very young children.
32:30
Speaker 12: You know, the way the Privacy Act in the US
32:34
Speaker 12: is worded is that and that's the only reason why
32:37
Speaker 12: these platforms is US platforms have an age of thirteen.
32:41
Speaker 10: Is the US Privacy Act sets that age.
32:45
Speaker 12: But we know that in Australia and across the world,
32:48
Speaker 12: many parents are basically assisting their kids to fraudulently get
32:54
Speaker 12: access to social media in much younger than thirteen. And
33:00
Speaker 12: it was really heartening to see these principles of the
33:03
Speaker 12: private primary school principles coming out and supporting this lifting
33:07
Speaker 12: the age to sixteen. But it's only because the parents
33:11
Speaker 12: and news corps and the opposition put up such a
33:16
Speaker 12: stink that the Prime Minister finally relented. He has been
33:20
Speaker 12: utterly weak on this. He's been dragged, kicking and screaming,
33:23
Speaker 12: but they haven't.
33:24
Speaker 10: Put a lot of thought into it.
33:26
Speaker 12: But ultimately it will be the platforms that will have
33:31
Speaker 12: to be satisfied that someone is sixteen. What we're really
33:34
Speaker 12: concerned about in the opposition is these exemptions that Michelle
33:38
Speaker 12: Roland is now talking about. We don't think these exemptions
33:42
Speaker 12: should apply. We don't think that the social media platforms
33:46
Speaker 12: have demonstrated any social license whatsoever.
33:50
Speaker 10: They've really demonstrated.
33:51
Speaker 12: That the kids are nothing more than an opportunity to
33:55
Speaker 12: raise money for them.
33:57
Speaker 1: Andrew, I'm sorry we've got to move on, but good
33:59
Speaker 1: luck those storms up there. I hope you don't get
34:01
Speaker 1: blown away. Let's bring in now Peter Wertheim, the co
34:04
Speaker 1: CEO of the Executive Council of Australian Jury. Now you're
34:09
Speaker 1: arguing this watered down hate speech bill from the federal government,
34:12
Speaker 1: which of course was a long time coming, doesn't go
34:16
Speaker 1: far enough. You say that the wording of the proposed
34:19
Speaker 1: legislation doesn't include enough forms of hate speech. Explain what
34:24
Speaker 1: is your issue with the current state of the legislation.
34:28
Speaker 13: Well, I take myardstick or starting point with some of
34:33
Speaker 13: the events that have occurred in recent times. Cast your
34:36
Speaker 13: mind back to last year October the ninth, twenty twenty
34:40
Speaker 13: twenty three, when we had a major demonstration at the
34:45
Speaker 13: fore court of the Opera House. The rhetoric was violent,
34:51
Speaker 13: the behavior was menacing and intimidating.
34:56
Speaker 11: In keeping with.
34:57
Speaker 13: That rhetoric, I would have thought that, judging by the
35:01
Speaker 13: reaction to it, including on Sky News which did a
35:05
Speaker 13: big exposee of that whole incident, people would have expected
35:09
Speaker 13: that that kind of conduct would already be against the
35:12
Speaker 13: law and should have been prosecuted. And yet there was
35:17
Speaker 13: no prosecution. There was no legal action taken in relation
35:21
Speaker 13: to it at all. So I guess our starting point
35:24
Speaker 13: has to be do we believe that behavior in that
35:29
Speaker 13: category should be prosecutable? And if the answer is yes,
35:35
Speaker 13: then we have to gauge any potential legislation against that
35:41
Speaker 13: sort of behavior and see whether it would be prosecutable
35:44
Speaker 13: under that legislation. And the current bill does not have
35:49
Speaker 13: a provision in there which would enable a prosecution of
35:53
Speaker 13: that sort of behavior to occur.
35:56
Speaker 1: So at the moment, the bill is basically suggesting that
35:59
Speaker 1: any think that is a direct incitement to violence, you
36:04
Speaker 1: are suggesting someone should do something would be considered hate speech,
36:08
Speaker 1: but perhaps a more indirect version of incitement to violence
36:12
Speaker 1: would not be included. Is that correct?
36:16
Speaker 13: I think that's the way it's advertised. But dificultly with
36:19
Speaker 13: this sort of legislation, Caleb, is that it's not always
36:23
Speaker 13: as advertised. The use of the word incitement has a
36:28
Speaker 13: particular meaning in common parlance. Most people would have thought
36:34
Speaker 13: that the behavior we saw at the opera House Forecourt
36:37
Speaker 13: would have fallen within the meaning of incitement, and yet
36:42
Speaker 13: the legal meaning is much narrower and much more constricted.
36:48
Speaker 13: It's quite technical. I can get into the weeds of
36:50
Speaker 13: it if you like, but it doesn't necessarily correlate to
36:56
Speaker 13: the way most people use the word incitement in common parlance.
37:01
Speaker 13: And so for that reason, when you use the word
37:06
Speaker 13: incitement as the test for whether it's incitement to violence
37:10
Speaker 13: or even incitement to hatred in the criminal context, where
37:13
Speaker 13: you have to prove intention to incite beyond reasonable doubt,
37:19
Speaker 13: you're setting a very high bar, and a bar which
37:22
Speaker 13: most prosecutors find impossible to overcome. And that's the reason
37:27
Speaker 13: why the sorts of behaviors that we've been discussing have
37:33
Speaker 13: gone unpunished.
37:35
Speaker 1: Somehow, I suspect this might go the same way as
37:38
Speaker 1: the religious discrimination bill. No one seems to be happy
37:41
Speaker 1: with it. Peter, thank you so much for your time.
37:43
Speaker 1: Coming up after the break, Elon Musk has scored a
37:46
Speaker 1: huge gig in the Trump administration. What this means for
37:49
Speaker 1: the United States and Australia with former Defense intelligence analyst
37:53
Speaker 1: Paul Munk later, But first, the boat smuggling debarcle is
37:56
Speaker 1: about to rear its ugly head again after another load
37:59
Speaker 1: of foreign has found their way onto our shores. My
38:02
Speaker 1: political panel Daniel Molino and Keith Pitt join me next.
38:08
Speaker 1: Plenty more headlines to get across. Joining me in that
38:10
Speaker 1: endeavor Labor MP Daniel Molino and Nationals MP Keith Pitt.
38:15
Speaker 1: Now four foreign nationals washed ashore on Croker Island, which
38:19
Speaker 1: is northeast of Darwin on Sunday night. The Northern Land
38:22
Speaker 1: Council confirmed this yesterday. They said the men were found
38:26
Speaker 1: by some local Aboriginal people. We don't know where they
38:29
Speaker 1: came from, only that they are no longer in Australia. Daniel,
38:34
Speaker 1: does this not just prove that our efforts to stop
38:37
Speaker 1: boats coming ashore simply isn't working.
38:42
Speaker 14: Well, thanks for having me on, Caleb, No, it doesn't
38:45
Speaker 14: show that. The first thing I'd say is that the
38:48
Speaker 14: current government, as with the previous government, doesn't confirm or
38:52
Speaker 14: comment on the details of operational matters, and that's been
38:54
Speaker 14: a stance for a long time. The second thing is
38:57
Speaker 14: that even under the previous government, which had the Operation
39:01
Speaker 14: Sovereign Boarder's Framework, which has continued, voter rivals occurred. For example,
39:05
Speaker 14: there was one in twenty eighteen in Danetree, so voter
39:10
Speaker 14: rivals occurred under.
39:11
Speaker 10: The previous government.
39:12
Speaker 14: Also that the main point is that the policy framework
39:15
Speaker 14: has continued across and there is no way under the
39:19
Speaker 14: current framework that people arriving in Australia in that manner
39:23
Speaker 14: will be able to stay. And that's something which continues
39:26
Speaker 14: under this government and that's why this arrangement will continue
39:29
Speaker 14: to work.
39:30
Speaker 1: Keith. Your response to that.
39:34
Speaker 15: Well, for those playing long at home, if you're counting
39:36
Speaker 15: handy illegal arrivals there are In terms of boats, you've
39:38
Speaker 15: run out of fingers and toes. It's twenty three and
39:42
Speaker 15: before the last election we had the Albans as anything.
39:45
Speaker 15: Alban Easies lead the opposition say that nothing would change,
39:48
Speaker 15: there won't be any difference, it will all be the same.
39:51
Speaker 15: And yet we've seen that this has been switched on
39:53
Speaker 15: again by people smugglers. You can't get away from facts
39:57
Speaker 15: twenty three illegal arrivals in terms of votes and in
40:00
Speaker 15: terms of ones when they get here all unfortunately, when
40:03
Speaker 15: it was minutes of giles, they get let out. This
40:05
Speaker 15: is an ongoing problem. We know what happened last time.
40:08
Speaker 15: No one wants to see death at sea. And yet
40:11
Speaker 15: in terms of funding and everything else that's needed to
40:14
Speaker 15: make border force successful, we see money pouring into things
40:18
Speaker 15: like as you said earlier, China, they wanted trillion dollars
40:21
Speaker 15: now for climate and don't forget that this government signed
40:24
Speaker 15: up to that. They've signed up to it expecting it
40:26
Speaker 15: to be in the billions and now it's in the trillions.
40:29
Speaker 1: I think at the very least we should give a
40:32
Speaker 1: big hooray to with the indigenous people up north. I
40:34
Speaker 1: think this is at least the second occasion where they've
40:36
Speaker 1: been the worst to find out that these people have
40:40
Speaker 1: come ashore.
40:40
Speaker 8: Now.
40:40
Speaker 1: In other news, the Albanezy government has set up a
40:43
Speaker 1: National Productivity Fund, which means the states and territories will
40:47
Speaker 1: have to compete for money for plans to boost productivity growth.
40:51
Speaker 1: Nine hundred million dollars is up for grabs for things
40:54
Speaker 1: like planning and zoning reform. Here's the treasure of Jim Charmers.
40:59
Speaker 16: We're not seeking productivity growth at the cost of higher
41:02
Speaker 16: unemployment or by insisting Australians work longer for less. We're
41:06
Speaker 16: trying to apply new thinking to the challenge by broadening
41:10
Speaker 16: our ambitions beyond the tired old slogans on debates central
41:15
Speaker 16: to industrial relations.
41:18
Speaker 1: Daniel, one of the biggest problems we're facing as a
41:21
Speaker 1: country right now is slow productivity growth. A lot of
41:25
Speaker 1: what you see in terms of employment increasing employment is
41:30
Speaker 1: in the care sector, which happens to be largely funded
41:34
Speaker 1: by the federal government through the ndis Is this nine
41:37
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars actually going to change anything?
41:41
Speaker 14: So the first thing I'd say is that, look, productivity
41:44
Speaker 14: growth has become harder right around the world in advanced economies.
41:47
Speaker 10: And I think there's a Martin Wolf article.
41:50
Speaker 14: In the Financial Times today which goes to the heart
41:52
Speaker 14: of this, which is the productivity growth in the services
41:54
Speaker 14: sector is harder to achieve than in manufacturing and agriculture,
41:59
Speaker 14: and that's something we've seen over decades, so it's not
42:02
Speaker 14: a surprise that that's something we're seeing here. The second
42:06
Speaker 14: point is I think these payments could make a huge
42:08
Speaker 14: difference and they're really worth exploring. When you go back
42:11
Speaker 14: to the Fred Hillmer reforms in the nineteen eighties and
42:14
Speaker 14: nineteen nineties, when you look at the report that Ian
42:17
Speaker 14: harbourhanded down to the previous government on competition, incentive payments
42:21
Speaker 14: to the states were central.
42:23
Speaker 10: To both of those approaches.
42:24
Speaker 14: This is something which I think we can probably get
42:26
Speaker 14: bipartisan support on.
42:28
Speaker 1: It's important for two reasons.
42:29
Speaker 14: Firstly, it incentivizes states, and secondly, it recognizes the fact
42:33
Speaker 14: that a lot of the hard lifting in terms of
42:36
Speaker 14: policy change that's required is going to have to be
42:38
Speaker 14: undertaken by state governments. And yet a lot of the
42:41
Speaker 14: increases in revenue through income tax and corporate tax will
42:44
Speaker 14: go to the Commonwealth government. So it's only fair that
42:47
Speaker 14: the Komonwealth government should pass on some of that benefit.
42:50
Speaker 14: So I think this is very sensible and I think
42:52
Speaker 14: it will help well if we.
42:54
Speaker 1: Want to have that discussion about money going to the
42:56
Speaker 1: Commonwealth government. We could always go back to the pre
42:58
Speaker 1: war set up where the state had control of income tax.
43:02
Speaker 1: But that's a discussion for another day. But Keith, I
43:04
Speaker 1: don't quite understand why we the taxpayer need to pay
43:09
Speaker 1: the states to reform things like their planning systems. Shouldn't
43:12
Speaker 1: they just be doing that anyway.
43:16
Speaker 15: Well, no matter what the question is, Labour's answer is
43:18
Speaker 15: always spend more taxpayers money. And I can tell you
43:21
Speaker 15: where productivity can be improved, and that is in policy
43:24
Speaker 15: settings from the cabinet of the Australian government. You don't
43:28
Speaker 15: need to spend enormous amounts of money to fix this.
43:30
Speaker 15: You need to stop doing things like sending our industrial
43:33
Speaker 15: relations programs back to the nineteen seventies. We've got interest
43:36
Speaker 15: rates which have had twelve increases, We've got electricity and
43:39
Speaker 15: gas costs out of control. It makes people uncompetitive. The
43:43
Speaker 15: fundamentals of business don't change. For them to be successful,
43:47
Speaker 15: they have to be competitive internationally if they're looking to export.
43:50
Speaker 15: And we have a government that is hell bent on
43:52
Speaker 15: giving the unions everything that they want, spending more taxpayer money,
43:56
Speaker 15: which is driving up inflation. And the RBA and themselves
43:59
Speaker 15: have said this is an issue and yet here we
44:01
Speaker 15: go as another nine hundred million for the States thought.
44:04
Speaker 1: It Now the PM doesn't seem to think it's worth
44:06
Speaker 1: catching up with Donald Trump before he becomes the US
44:09
Speaker 1: president again. Albanize has knocked back the suggestion from the
44:12
Speaker 1: opposition that he had to stop in Florida to see
44:15
Speaker 1: Trump on his way to the APEC leaders meetings in
44:17
Speaker 1: Rio de Janeiro this week. Daniel ort he, I know
44:22
Speaker 1: he's in a phone call, but aught he actually have
44:25
Speaker 1: a face to face discussion. I don't think there'd be
44:27
Speaker 1: any harm in it, would there.
44:29
Speaker 14: Well, look, I think it's interesting that some of the
44:31
Speaker 14: people calling for this have also been the same people
44:33
Speaker 14: who roundly criticized the PM for traveling too much. So
44:36
Speaker 14: there's a bit of interest there that brazenly self promoting here.
44:40
Speaker 14: I'm just in the process of finishing up a book
44:43
Speaker 14: on PM president relations back to Federation, and I've actually
44:46
Speaker 14: interviewed all former pms on their relations with presidents, including
44:51
Speaker 14: Turnbull and Morrison's relations.
44:52
Speaker 1: We've got too much timing head and my.
44:56
Speaker 14: Lessons from that are that I think the way to
44:59
Speaker 14: succeed with Trump is going to be firstly to show
45:01
Speaker 14: him on each of the issues that comes up. What's
45:03
Speaker 14: in it for the US, secondly to be straightforward and
45:06
Speaker 14: thirdly to build trust. And so I think that's the
45:08
Speaker 14: approach we need to take as issues come up. I
45:11
Speaker 14: think we need to approach it in that way and
45:14
Speaker 14: I think we'll do very well. He's very open minded
45:16
Speaker 14: to dealing with Australia in a positive way.
45:18
Speaker 1: I believe gents, we're only got ten seconds before the
45:21
Speaker 1: break Keith, should he meet.
45:22
Speaker 15: Him well as soon as possible.
45:26
Speaker 1: We're supportive.
45:27
Speaker 15: The best thing Kevin Rudd could do is reach out
45:28
Speaker 15: to Jenna Reinhart, make a special.
45:30
Speaker 1: Envoid Jents, thank you so much for your time. After
45:34
Speaker 1: the break, Donald Trump, we're just talking about him. His
45:36
Speaker 1: cabinet is starting to take shape after a wave of announcements.
45:40
Speaker 1: It includes, of course billionaire buddy Elon Musk, and what
45:43
Speaker 1: are we going to do about Kevin Rudd? All of
45:46
Speaker 1: that with Paulmnk Right after this, let's go back to
45:51
Speaker 1: the United States. Donald Trump has announced that billionaire richest
45:55
Speaker 1: man in the world, Elon Musk, and of course former
45:57
Speaker 1: GOP presidential candidate Vivic Aswami, will have roles in his administration.
46:03
Speaker 1: They're going to lead the Department of Government Efficiency, which
46:07
Speaker 1: the President elect said will dismantle government bureaucracy, slash excess regulations,
46:12
Speaker 1: cut wasteful expenditures, and restructure federal agencies. In other words,
46:17
Speaker 1: the Manhattan Project of our time. Let's bring in our
46:21
Speaker 1: former defense intelligence analyst Punk Paul. I suspect there are
46:26
Speaker 1: a few bureaucrats in the US tonight who might be
46:29
Speaker 1: quietly changing their underwear at the thought of what's going
46:32
Speaker 1: to happen here. How much would this change the way
46:36
Speaker 1: government operates in the US, do you think.
46:40
Speaker 8: Well, a great deal depends of course on how precisely
46:43
Speaker 8: and efficiently dore I say it's carried out. So let's
46:47
Speaker 8: be in no doubt that party politics and ideology as
46:51
Speaker 8: such a site.
46:52
Speaker 1: The US is.
46:53
Speaker 8: Running massive deficits, and they're not sustainable. And the real
46:57
Speaker 8: thrust of those deficits, the real cause of them, is
47:00
Speaker 8: unfunded entitlement. So something has to be done. An Elon Musk,
47:03
Speaker 8: in his customary way, is such a visionary and an
47:06
Speaker 8: innovative says let's do something about this like we mean it.
47:10
Speaker 8: So I think that he's been appointed to this role
47:14
Speaker 8: is itself a very interesting development. But the question of
47:18
Speaker 8: precisely how to go about it when he's starting from
47:21
Speaker 8: scratch and doesn't himself have a substantial staff to work
47:25
Speaker 8: with to do The enormous amount of reviewing that would
47:28
Speaker 8: have to go into such a program gives one pause,
47:31
Speaker 8: because there are a lot of ways to get this wrong.
47:33
Speaker 8: I would hope the administration is not intimidated by the
47:36
Speaker 8: scale of the task and that they set about it
47:38
Speaker 8: in a systematic way that remains to be seen.
47:40
Speaker 1: And if there's anyone who can do it, I think
47:42
Speaker 1: it's Elon Musk. I just wish we could have one
47:44
Speaker 1: of these here. We've found out today we've spent another
47:46
Speaker 1: five billion dollars on more public servants, one person who
47:49
Speaker 1: is sort of trying to save his career as well
47:52
Speaker 1: under the Trump administration. Of course, our very own Kevin Rudd,
47:56
Speaker 1: one of Trump's senior advisors, Dan Scavino Junior, post to
48:00
Speaker 1: this on x It's a pretty pointed warning. I would
48:03
Speaker 1: have thought to our ambassador to the United States, the
48:07
Speaker 1: time is running out.
48:12
Speaker 8: Yes, well, in a sense, it would probably be running
48:15
Speaker 8: out even without Donald Trump winning the election, because Kevin
48:21
Speaker 8: is a labor appointee, and we may well have a
48:25
Speaker 8: liberal or Coalition government by halfway through next to year.
48:29
Speaker 8: But the reality is that Kevin has a bad habit
48:34
Speaker 8: of expressing strong opinions personal opinions out of turn and
48:39
Speaker 8: Kim Beasley made a very sage remark at the time
48:43
Speaker 8: when Kevin was appointed, saying that Kevin needs to learn
48:46
Speaker 8: the role of an ambassador is not to express opinions,
48:49
Speaker 8: it is to cultivate relationships. But I think Kevin can't
48:53
Speaker 8: help himself, and the birds of the chickens are coming
48:56
Speaker 8: home to roost. It'll be interesting, therefore, to see what
48:59
Speaker 8: actually falls out of this the next couple of months.
49:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got fifty seconds left. I've been surprised by
49:06
Speaker 1: the reaction of some very learned people who've actually said, well,
49:10
Speaker 1: there's really nothing much to worry about here, including his
49:13
Speaker 1: defenders has been Tony Abbott, which I was surprised by.
49:19
Speaker 8: It is interesting. I'm not sure what motivated that. Maybe
49:26
Speaker 8: it's an xpm's club because Turnbull has been defending him
49:30
Speaker 8: as well, you know, and Turnbull pointedly and I think
49:34
Speaker 8: very correctly, declined to endorse Kevin's desire to become Secretary
49:39
Speaker 8: General of the United Nations. Heaven knows the UNS dysfunctional
49:42
Speaker 8: enough as it is without having Kevin at the steering wheel.
49:49
Speaker 8: So I think it's it's probably fair to say that
49:56
Speaker 8: whatever one's criticisms of him, Kevin is a highly intelligent perts.
50:00
Speaker 8: And then he's doubtless done some good things while there.
50:05
Speaker 8: One of the things that you know he's just done
50:06
Speaker 8: is he's published on SIDI in Pingon.
50:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm sorry we've run out of time. He
50:11
Speaker 1: is knowledgeable on China, but somehow I suspect this is
50:14
Speaker 1: going to be a problem. Thank you for joining me,
50:16
Speaker 1: and thank you all at home for joining me. Scherry
50:18
Speaker 1: will be back tomorrow night. And he's back. Paul Murray
50:21
Speaker 1: is here in the man Cave.