Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / Dr. Drew on Hollywood Breakups, Fake Kidnappings and Prison Lovers

Transcript

Dr. Drew on Hollywood Breakups, Fake Kidnappings and Prison Lovers · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: for it?
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: It's Dunaidial.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: Where?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Dunaidial.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: There's an accent on the E.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Do you mean.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: Lift?
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Please. Are you going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: No.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Dundale Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else. Heather MacDonald
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on the road,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: to know.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: She talks Hollywood tales for real life, Mr.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Saving Serial Data and Serial Sisters. You'll be addicted and
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Listen in, listen up.
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: Woo, woo.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Heather MacDonald.
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah!
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I have a great
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: interview with my friend, Dr. Drew, that you're going to
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: listen to in a minute. I want to remind anybody
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: that's in the Hamptons area where I have been all
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: week that I am doing a super juicy and fun
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: live Juicy Scoop at the West Hamptons Beach Theater. You
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: can get those tickets at heathermcdonald.net, special surprise guest. And
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I also dropped a special Patreon for you guys. You
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: can also join that at heathermcdonald.net That covers the Brandi-Julie
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: controversy scoop as well as my thoughts on Raquel from
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Vanderpump Rules' first and only interview and being that she
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: went on Bethany's podcast and all my thoughts about that
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and the reality union and the fact that Spencer Pratt
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: has spoken out and said, we are not part of that.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Leave us out of it. Paige has said, I'm not
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: part of that. So who are all these people coming forward?
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I cover it all. It's very interesting. So you're going
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: to get that. And now for Dr. Drew, enjoy the show.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Hope you're having a wonderful week. I'm having the time
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: of my life frolicking in the Hamptons in gauzy white
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: dresses and cream colored hats and I mean, it's like
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I'm in a Nancy Meyers movie. None of it is real,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: and it's been really fun. And as a Valley girl,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I've never experienced anything like it. And I hope you
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: guys are following me at Heather MacDonald for all the
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: fun that I'm experiencing. It's just like ridiculous. Everything feels fake.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Love you guys. Hello, and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: have returned guest, everyone's favorite doctor and dad, Dr. Drew Pinsky,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: how are you?
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: I am good, Heather. This is how we spend time
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: together now. We either get on each other's podcast or
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: we show up in Mexico together.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: We never get to see you otherwise. Well, I know,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: and I invited myself to your house for a pool party.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that. I was
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: disappointed we didn't do that.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Well, I just felt like I invited myself, and then
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Susan bought the noodles for me to float on and
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: the burgers.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: But then I was like, wouldn't you rather just not
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: have anybody? And I think she was kind of happy
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: with that.
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: She may have been. I was not. Yes.
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  Speaker 1: You were not?
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: No.
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  Speaker 4: Why didn't you guys come over? I haven't seen you forever.
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: But I thought, I'm going to see her next week,
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: so it's all good.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: It's okay.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: So we have a lot of things to discuss. As always.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: And you got a lot of questions from- Everything good
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: with you.
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  Speaker 4: Everything good with the- I got to tell you, I
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: run a Juicy Scoopers everywhere.
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  Speaker 1: They're the best.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: They are the best. And I'm always sort of stunned
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: by it being an opener for so many people. It's
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: like people that I don't expect it from. It's not
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: the podcast world necessarily that all of a sudden, like,
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: love you on Juicy Scooper. I'm a Juicy Scooper. That's
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: how they identify themselves.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: That is awesome.
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  Speaker 4: It is awesome. And it's a lot of very intelligent women,
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  Speaker 4: I would say. That's sort of the general trend.
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  Speaker 1: We actually did a survey for my podcast company. And
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: it was great to see that it is a educated,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: smart group of guys and girls, but it is predominantly women.
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  Speaker 4: The ones that stop me.
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  Speaker 1: And the age is like mid-30s up. Yep.
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  Speaker 4: It's usually 30 or early 40s.
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  Speaker 1: But I know I get younger people too. It's whatever.
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  Speaker 1: But it's just flattering that they always approach people that
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: are– guests on my show and become regulars. And that's
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  Speaker 1: just the nicest thing to me.
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  Speaker 4: It is nice. And again, they're substantial people, right? It's
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: not just, you know, which is nice. But it doesn't
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  Speaker 4: happen with other podcasts so much anymore. It used to happen, right?
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: I think it used to.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm happy to hear that. I feel
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  Speaker 1: like we talked about this a little on the phone
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: with the strike and everything. Unfortunately, you know, there's going
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: to be people who will have time on their hands.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: And I said, I think if this was a couple
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: years ago, maybe people would be throwing those deals at
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: them like they did for COVID.
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  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: But I do feel like now people are realizing that
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  Speaker 1: this is a real skill, podcasting. It takes a certain
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: kind of talent to keep it going for years on end.
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  Speaker 1: And that isn't everybody that's just famous. Just being famous
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  Speaker 1: and just being a good actor or a good sitcom
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  Speaker 1: star does not make you someone that can create content.
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  Speaker 1: Several times a week for years on end. It just isn't.
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  Speaker 4: 100% true.
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  Speaker 1: I don't care how many famous friends you can interview either.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I think people are over that a little. Yeah.
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true. I hadn't thought about that, but I
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  Speaker 4: think that's true also. But this is more about community
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: and sharing and stuff like that and hanging out. Yeah.
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: It's like an enjoyable thing. And other podcasts, I mean,
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: occasionally stuff comes up when I'm on other podcasts, but
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: the Juicy Scoopers identify themselves as Juicy Scoopers. That's like
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: who I am. I'm part of this community, which is
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: very cool to see.
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  Speaker 1: That is great.
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  Speaker 4: And by the way, just as I'm thinking about it,
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: because it reminds me to call you and ask to
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: come see you here. But this last time, like right
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: in a row, like three people stopped me and I
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: started getting jealous of, of Sarah.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: And Chris.
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  Speaker 4: I'm like, they get to go all the time. I
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  Speaker 4: need to go in there.
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  Speaker 1: You can come more often. I just thought you were,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: you know, so busy and live far away.
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  Speaker 4: But isn't that funny? I literally felt jealousy.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: It's so funny. That's awesome.
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  Speaker 3: I love that.
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  Speaker 4: So there you go.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: You like jealousy? Let's first talk about jealousy and everything else.
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  Speaker 4: That's your thing.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: About some Hollywood breakups. There's been a lot and there's
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: been a lot of discussion about open marriages, what causes
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: these breakups, you know, throughout. You and I have both
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: been married very long. Yeah. We are.
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: Our anniversary is tomorrow.
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  Speaker 1: For how many years?
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  Speaker 4: 32.
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  Speaker 1: And, you know, and every marriage is different and everybody
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  Speaker 1: has their things that are easy and their things that
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: are hard.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 4: But. But I started thinking, you know, there's always stuff, right?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: You got to kind of work it through and the
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  Speaker 4: marriages go through evolutions. There's tougher times than others. Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: But I was thinking about the people that, I was
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: watching some interview on TV or something and somebody was going,
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: marriage is hard, marriage is hard. And I thought, I mean,
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  Speaker 4: it's not really compared to other hard things. You know
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  Speaker 4: what I mean? It shouldn't be that hard. I mean,
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  Speaker 4: raising a family is hard. Creating a life is hard.
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  Speaker 4: It's work. But the marriage sort of, if it's working,
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  Speaker 4: I mean, it can be challenging sometimes. It's not that hard.
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  Speaker 4: Of course, I'm not married to Peter.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I just think every situation is different.
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  Speaker 4: It is.
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  Speaker 1: I was talking to my friend, Kate Casey, who has
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: five kids, and she's got a great podcast, too.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And she was like, yeah, call me. I'm driving from
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  Speaker 1: Carpinteria back all the way to Newport. Drop my kid off,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: one of the kids off at some camp.
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  Speaker 4: That's the kid thing.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: So I call her later at five.
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, let's like talk some juicy scoop.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And she goes, can I just cut it? Could I
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: just ever get a break? I go, why? What happened?
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: She goes, just as I walked in the house, the
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: phone rang and the kid sprained his ankle and needs
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: to be picked up.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Tomorrow or something. And now the husband has to go
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: and then they're supposed to be going to Hawaii.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: And I just was like, oh, I feel you. You're
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: sad for your kid. You're sad for the drive. You're
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: sad for the waste of the day. Yeah. But I
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: was also like, that's what you sign up for. Well,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: that's true. That's what happens when you have kids and stuff.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: And when people don't have kids, those are things that
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: they are never, there's going to be inconvenience in a
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: non-kid person's life. Right. Their house could flood.
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Their mom could get sick. All of that. But those
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: little unexpected things that throw you for a loop, that
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: is what it is. And you've just got to be like,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: this is one day in the many days ahead.
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: It's one of the most important jobs I cherish and
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: one of the most important jobs that humans can do
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: is to capably bring the next generation in. Right. But
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: that's the hard part. And the marriage gets stressed by that.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: And that's hard. But it's really the child rearing. Like
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: I said, building a family, building a life. that's hard. Yeah.
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: People have abandoned that. I think, you know, they're just like, ah, whatever.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: There's so, yeah, there's this whole, you know, yeah. A
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: lot of people are like, I'm, you know, I'm childless
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: and proud and I don't want to be, and like,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: you can do whatever you, you know, for them, but
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: that's fine. I mean, that's fine. Whatever you want to do.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: And if you choose it too, I mean, the truth
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: is somebody, you know, asked me, you know, what I'm
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: thinking about having kids and, you know, what should I do? Whatever.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I'm like, well, The benefit of not having them is
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: that you will never worry for the rest of your
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: life like you do the moment you find out you're pregnant.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: From the moment you find out you're pregnant until the moment.
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: You're dead. The moment you die.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: And hopefully you outlive your kids. But providing you outlive
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: your kids from the moment you... To the moment you die,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: you're going to be worrying about these other people.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: And if you.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: And, but also glorying in their growth and success and stuff.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: You get both sides.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: The worry is real.
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: The worry is intense.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: It never stops.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: It never stops.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: I and even when they get married are they having
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: marital issues are they having did they job is it worse.
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: For the husband than the wife the dad than the.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Mom 100 is worse for the mom in my opinion
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: yeah why i think i think there is something in
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: that and i recently saw that and you can tell
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: me if this is true or not if this is
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: a biological thing The biological thing of how you have
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: the cells of the brain, but in your brain as
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: the mother, based on, I saw it for boys, but
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: I assume it's for girls too. You carry your child
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: and there's cells of that child that remain in your
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: brain forever, which goes into the mother instinct and all
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: of that, that can't be.
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: You can't take it out.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: It's different than the husband or the dad. It is.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: And whatever the mechanism is, it makes perfect sense from
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: an evolutionary standpoint, right? Right. Because the men were out,
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: you know, fighting the wars, killing the mammoths. The mom
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: was there with the child, protecting the child, feeding the child.
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: That had to be a motivational priority.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: And the men, you know, oftentimes didn't necessarily share that priority.
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: And so they'd be drifting off. And we have a
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: lot of that these days.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: But men have their own you know, it's interesting. I
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: remember talking to a woman about this years ago and
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: she was, she was like, Oh, I have baby hunger
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: when I'm around a baby or baby, some.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Sort of, my ovaries are crying.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: And I go, and I go, Oh my God, that's
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: such an interesting thing because men feel nothing like that.
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: She goes, Oh, come on. No, no, we spent a
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: lot of energy avoiding. We don't, we have no, but,
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: but once we get in with someone, we are interested
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: in being the head of a household. We're interested in
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: building a family. We're, We're interested in that, but we
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: don't have this hunger for children the same way.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: It's different. Or like once they meet the child, like
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: a single mom who might have a kid, they really
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: do enjoy it and they really can be a wonderful
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: stepfather and stuff like that. But I also think it's-
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: It's just different motivational systems. I think it also goes
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: for this. I think if a woman really wants kids
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: and the husband doesn't, like maybe they both go in
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: and they're like, we want to be childless and travel.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: And then the woman gets the ovaries burning and she goes,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: I want to have kids. And he really.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: That's such a great image.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: And he really doesn't.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: It seems like then that can be a deal breaker.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: Oh, for sure.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: But it seems like.
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: Because sometimes guys don't want nothing to do.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Right. But it seems like it's a lot less often
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: that if the man suddenly changes his mind, I really
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: want kids, and the woman can't provide the kids, that
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: he's like, well, then I got to find a woman
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: to have a kid with because I want to be
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: a dad that bad. I think oftentimes guys are like,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I'll take it or leave it, like whatever.
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: You know what's interesting? Really interesting. We had a moment
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: like that 30 years ago, Susan and I, 32 years ago. Yeah.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: Before we got married, it was one of the tenderest
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: things she ever said to me. I'll never forget it.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: I think I'm going to cry.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, do cry.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: It's weird. I haven't thought about it in years. We
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: hadn't been married yet. she knew she had some sort
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: of fertility something. And she insisted on getting a workup
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: before marriage. And she had her history of salpingogram, which
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: is this miserable procedure where they push dye into her
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: uterus and look at the tubes and stuff. And somewhere
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: that day, she said to me, you know, I wouldn't
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: do that to you. I didn't want you to have
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: to be burdened with that if something was wrong with
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: my ability to Procreate. She said something very specific. I
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: can't even remember the words, but it like went through
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: me like a knife. Like, no, no, no. I'm in
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: this for you. That would be something we would handle together.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: But the fact that she didn't want to burden me
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: with her stuff that way was so deeply meaningful to me.
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: It was a very, and she didn't toss it off.
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: I mean, she knew she was saying something substantial, but
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: I was like, no, look, you don't know fertility science
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: the way I do at the time. She had an
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: issue with her tube. I said, we will get this.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: Don't worry. We will get this done together. It was
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: just so selfless. It was such a selfless thing.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: And for people that don't know, you did go through fertility.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: And you did find out she was pregnant with triplets.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: Well, we went through it twice, actually. We went the
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: first time pregnant, boom, right away, one. But sort of
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: in the tube kind of pregnancy. So that had to
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: be terminated. Yeah. Waited six months or something. Again, boom, triplets. Crazy.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: And.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: And now they're 30 and doing great.
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: And we're still worrying about them. Yeah, exactly. Crazy.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: But, you know, you said that and it reminded me
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: of my mom said that to me. So she, like,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: she didn't get her period until she was like 21
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: or something. This is a long time ago. This is 1960, whatever.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: And so there was some doctor said, I don't know
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: if you'll be able to have kids. This is weird
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: and whatever. And I remember she did tell me that
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: she told my dad that. And he goes, that's fine.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: We'll just adopt. He didn't have an ego about like, well,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I got to make sure it's my own sperm or whatever.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: He was just like, well, I'm in love with you.
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: And if we want to have a family, we'll figure
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: out a way to have a family.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: And it's such an interesting instinct that a woman would
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: have to be so selfless.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: It's a selfless instinct.
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: And we are a more selfless species.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I agree.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: No, you are.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: For gender. I think we are the more selfless gender.
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: You are, and this was such a clear example of that.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: But then again, we're sort of the caretaker. We're like, no, no, no,
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: we got you. I got you.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: We'll get through this. Yeah.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about some marriages that aren't as strong
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: as yours.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: But I want to get to this business about open
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: marriages because that's where I was heading.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: You want to put an example up there?
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to put up a face. Well, okay,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: let's talk about open marriages.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: I think we've talked about it before.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Let me put up a face of an open marriage.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: This is one that we believe is an open marriage,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: which is Will and Jada, but continue.
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: Well, do you know Jason Ellis?
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: So he's a big– explain who he is to the
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: people that don't know.
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: Jason is a skateboarder, sort of MMA fighter, sort of comedian, podcaster,
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: radio host, interesting Australian dude.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: A dear friend of mine.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: He got involved with Katie. They had this sort of
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: insanely– it used to worry me. sort of sexually addicted
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: kind of relationship.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: But just with each other?
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: No, it would go all over the place. And when
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: they got married, they kept it open completely, like wildly.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Did they have any kids together?
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: No, he has two kids, different marriage. And it seemed
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: to make them both happy for years. So when this
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: started happening, I watched very carefully because my experience has
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: been When you open the marriage, the clock is ticking.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: I mean, this seems to be a business relationship or whatever.
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Maybe they have a ways of making it work. But really,
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: whatever the relationship is, is not going to last, the openness.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: It just doesn't. I've seen it a thousand times. And
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: like I said repeatedly, there are armies of people trying
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: to get people to be able to have a relationship
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: between two people and keep it healthy. When you bring
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: in other people Even if it's just sexual, feelings emerge
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: that you don't anticipate. You just can't predict. People are
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: very fluid emotionally when you get into these kinds of
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: intimate situations. I mean, I think what.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Marriage is, is you can't always have your cake and
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: eat it too.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: Correct.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: If the love and the passion is not what you
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: hoped it would be. Right. Either you try to make
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: it work or you get out. But you can't expect
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: to have the marriage and everything and have it be
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: great and fine. And that you can just like be
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: with somebody else that either that person isn't going to
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: get weird. Yeah. You know, like no two people are
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: completely on the same page.
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: Or the person you're having the affairs with will get weird.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: That's what I'm saying.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm talking about. The person having the affair
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: that goes in and is like, I'm just down to
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: have an affair. So I started to watch the Hulu doc,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Ashley Madison. Which, by the way, some of these docs...
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: are like, I can't. I'm just like, they're so poorly, sorry,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: some of them I don't think are greatly done.
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: And they're always so biased in whatever their point of
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: view is.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: So it started out last night when I started to
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: watch it. And I remember Ashley Madison, for people that
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: don't know, it started like 2002 and it was just
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: when you'd have to go on a website. There weren't
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: apps or anything like that. And it was life is short,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: have an affair. You'd put in your zip code and
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: your age and say I'm a woman. I live in,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: you know, nine, one, three, six, four. And, and I
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: did it once when I was at Chelsea, just curious,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: didn't put a photo, didn't put my name, just put
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: my age and my zip. And I got guys ready
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: to meet me. Like just literally, I couldn't believe it.
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: And then there are always guys ready to go.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: And then after that, there was a hack and all
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: these people came out and there was actually a real
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: house as of New York, whose husband was, you know,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: on the list. And I interviewed her and she's, to
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: this day they're still together and happy and she said
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: he and his friends did it as a joke whatever
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: you want to believe if you're still together 12 years
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: later okay it's fine they're not going down that path
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: yeah if maybe he did or whatever or you got
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: through it and you're like fresh slate like I don't
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: want to get divorced you know I mean there's think
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: of all like the swingers and everything from the 60s
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: and those people died together yeah at the retirement hotel
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: so like I don't know that it can't happen but.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: No they can figure it out they just can't keep
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: going right So back to just to finish my story. Okay, yeah.
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: I watched Katie and Jason for years going, well, I
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: guess I found the couple for whom it works.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: Because they broke up.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, so it didn't work.
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: It did not work.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: How long did they go for?
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: Must have been seven years or so. eight years. And
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: it broke up and it always breaks up horribly, very painfully.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: It's always bad. It's never like, oh, we just agreed
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: that this.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And wasn't he also an out bisexual as well? Yes.
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: And maybe more gay than bi. And that seemed to be,
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: I didn't get into it with Katie, but that seemed
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: to be something that she couldn't manage. But again, but
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: it goes under the heading again, if you don't know
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: what feelings are going to come out in these fluid situations,
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: you got to declare your major and commit to that person.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: You know, I really believe that's right. And no judgment
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: on anybody. Go be whatever with whomever. But if you
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: want to have a relationship that sustains, you got to
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: declare your major and you got to commit to that person.
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: Christmas shopping has already started in our house. My daughter
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: is so organized, already planning Christmas gifts from Macaulay. Hair
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: care for her aunt and a fab fragrance for her bestie.
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I'm
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: an early bird, buying one present a week from now
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: till Christmas, which makes budgeting less stressful. I can buy
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: in-store or online from Macaulay.ie for home delivery or free
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: click and collect.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: So easy.
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: Gifts they'll cherish at prices you'll love.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: Where did that need come from where you thought that
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: you had to succeed in.
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: Order to feel loved? He said, I have a work dad.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: I need a home dad. What happens next? When I
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: came in, he started crying.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: those hard moments that they go through. It's about what
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: happens next.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: I decided to risk it all.
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: I realized how valuable every day was. You're worth the work. Listen, Dara,
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to pull punches.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: You can use your voice even if it shakes.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: And how do you feel about these new groups of
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: people that are doing the polyamorous, poly family?
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: It just doesn't work.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: Look at all the misery on the TLC shows and stuff,
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: the sister wives and everything. I've never seen more unhappy
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: women than sister wives.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: There's always that one who started it all that seems
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: to kind of get something out of it. The rest
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: of them are beyond miserable. I've never seen such misery.
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: And the guy's miserable too.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, totally.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: That's the other thing.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Cody's totally miserable.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so with the Astro Manus, I just want to say.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: So what they did is they had these actors, like,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: you'd see them being interviewed, and it was an actor playing, like,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Ralph from the website or whatever.
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: Oh, reenactments.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I was like, I wish Chris was watching this
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: because I'd be like, no offense to SAG-AFTRA, I'm part
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: of it, but this might make people go, Are you
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: that valuable? I mean, the acting was so bad. And
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I literally felt like I was in a bad acting
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: class because it was like they were reading and they
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: were like, I mean, I just wanted something to be fresh.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I wanted to feel that again.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: Oh, no.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Do I regret it? I don't know. Like it was
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: so- So.
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: It was all, no real customers.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Only one girl in the beginning, one woman said, I
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: knew something was up, follow your instinct. And then 18,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: you know, one day my husband went to the grocery
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: store and my house phone rang. And this woman's like,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: I've been having an affair with your husband for 18 months.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: And she goes, the woman said to me, He told
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: me he's going to work it out with his wife,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, no, you're not. You're with me.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: I called the wife because you're with me because, again,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: she changed her mind. Of course. They met through Ashley Madison,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: and she had befriended her on Facebook. Oh, boy. That's
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: another weird thing of wanting to be friends with the...
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Keep an eye on the wife. The way women are.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: You support other women, but also women so get obsessed
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: with other women... And their lives.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: It's so hard to understand it.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Different than men. Oh my God, yes. Men are like,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I want to beat up that effer, but I don't
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: feel like men go and like stalk their wife's ex-boyfriend
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: for years on end.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: Impossible.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: The way women will.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: Unthinkable. You know what's interesting? I was watching, we're 90
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: Day Fiancé fans.
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: And the transgender male that was on there. He was,
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: and he's fully, I mean, when I watch, When people
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: take issue with transgender, they go, look at some of
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: these people from home. It really is working. It's really
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: working for them. And look at how they did it
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: and what they did. And it's working for them. It's
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: working for this dude. He had a fight with his sister.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: And both Susan and I went, oh, my God, that's
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: two sisters fighting. That's not a brother and a sister.
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: That's two sisters. He's still two sisters fighting. And somebody,
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: I brought that up and several other people said those
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: words blurted out of their mouth as they were watching
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: the interaction.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: The dynamic, yeah.
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: It's a different thing. Now, you could argue, I'm not
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: making an argument about gender or anything. I mean, that
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: just long established relationship has always been that way. Fine.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: But I'm saying it's a different thing and it still
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: breaks through this gender identity, which is kind of interesting.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: It's very interesting.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Well, again, just even like raising boys and their dynamic,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: which is close to the same age.
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: Difference between Shannon and I.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: It's mysterious to women, isn't it?
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: Isn't it shocking?
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like the fighting and the arguments.
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: Isn't it shocking to you?
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: The best thing about boys, at least with my kids,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: is when they do get mad at each other.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: It's on.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: It's on, but it's short.
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: And then it's over.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: It's short.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: That's right. I mean, no resentment to carry around? Yeah, yeah.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: None.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: We get it out.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Then it's like, whatever. You want to play this
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: basketball game or whatever, like moving on.
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: But back to this multiplicity of partners and all this stuff.
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: I think I brought this up last time I was
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: in here. Did you ever see that show, Gunther's Millions?
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: No.
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: Oh, Heather. Look it up. Gunther's Millions.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: This isn't the internet. This is just my thing. Just
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: tell me what it is.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: It's a spoiler, if I tell you too much. But
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: it's a dog that inherits millions and millions of dollars. Oh, okay.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: And the dog has a handler.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: And antics ensue.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: It's just a scripted movie, though.
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: No, no. It's something that happened. It was a pharmaceutical
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: company owner that made millions and millions of dollars and
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: did some shady stuff and got it given to this dog.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: And it turns out Gunther is a bunch of dogs.
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: And Gunther's handler- Is an interesting dude.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: And does all, let's just say he does human experiments
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: and doesn't go well. Oh. On behalf of Gunther.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: Gunther's looking for ultimate happiness. It is, it's only like
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: a three or four part series. It is mind blowing.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: I recommend it so highly.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Let's get into some stars. Okay. Yeah. Jada and Will.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Now her show, The Red Table Talk, that's on pause
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: or canceled or whatever.
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: Is that because of?
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: No, I think it's just because Facebook stopped doing shows
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: Huh. So they're not getting paid for it?
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: They're not doing it anymore right now.
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: That might have been a SAG deal, right? Maybe?
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but this was a while ago. This
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: is before the strike. And that's what she did with
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: her daughter and her mother.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I remember.
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: I was supposed to be on it, and then it
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: got canceled all of a sudden. It was weird.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Probably because you're going to be on it. You're too controversial. No,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: Well, that or it made me wonder if I was
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: going to ask too many questions and that they didn't
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: really want to get into it.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, wait. You mean they canceled your appearance, not the
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: show was canceled?
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: No, my appearance.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: But it was a while ago. It was about a
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: year and a half or two years ago. And it
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: was before COVID.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Before the slap. Yes.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: Well before that.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: And I was actually looking forward to it.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Before the entanglement?
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: Which one?
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: She had the entanglement with her stepson's best friend. Yeah.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: I didn't know anything about anything. I just heard little
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: faint rumors that things weren't all copacetic. And the cancellation,
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: there was a legitimate kind of reason. But it was like,
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: all right, we'll immediately rebook. And that didn't happen.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: I always thought they were like the first power couple.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: And everyone just loved it. Everyone loved when they were
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: on Oprah, how funny it was. He was tall and
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: she was tiny. But they were the first couple to match.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Their outfits always had to match on the red carpet.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: So if she was wearing a green dress, he'd wear
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: a green suit. They would always... match. And I wonder
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: if that's a little something like weird that like, like, like,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: cause he was the bigger star. He was the bigger
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: star and he, this was his wife and she was like,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: you know, some stars or some couples go, we won't
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: walk the red carpet together. We've decided that together. Like
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: we don't want to do that. We don't want to
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: be known as a couple. We want to be known
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: as individual stars that can do their other thing. And
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: people read into that. Oh, they're not happy. But like,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: and then maybe that's, maybe it isn't so great, especially
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: when you're so, I mean, J-Lo did that too. She
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: redressed Ben the first time they dated, slicked back his hair,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: got him in a Rolls Royce, got rid of all
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: the whatever team he likes. What does he like? The
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Boston teams. And like got rid of those shirts and
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: put them in like, and now, you know, and then
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: when she was with A-Rod, they matched, they'd be wearing.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: all creams or all whatever. And so it's like, I
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: think it comes from the woman.
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: I would think.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Unless you're married to a gay guy. Yeah.
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: And so, but is that her rubbing her stink on him? Yeah. Okay.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: I think, I think.
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: And then him being- And apologies for how I use language.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't know a little bit.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: Metaphorically speaking.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: I just didn't know if like, yeah. It's like the
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: couple that shares the Facebook page and stuff like that.
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: Feels a little bit enmeshed, as they say. Yeah. Enmeshed.
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: And it's often, as I think is going on in
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: this case, sort of a compensation for something. Yeah. Like,
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: what's going on?
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, they were really honest about it. About? About
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: their relationship after the entanglement. They did a episode on
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: her show. Where she came in. Yeah, where he came on.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: And Chris Rock joked about it in his special. And he, yeah,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: it was humiliating for him. And they acted like they
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: had this fun rapport, like as if, you know, I
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: know you ate the ice cream. This one woke up
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: at 2 in the morning. She's in my Haagen-Dazs. They
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: literally acted like her having sex with this guy who was,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: their child's family friend who kind of needed the guidance
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: in the family. I mean, if anything, she kind of
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: fucking groomed him and took advantage of him. And he,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: you know, mentally suffered because of it. And he was like,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: and then, and she's like, and then I had an entanglement.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: And he's laughed, like they're kind of laughing.
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: It was very weird.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: You said acting, acting.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: It feels, that's got to be acting. And I feel
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: like I have no idea who these two people are. Like,
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: like none. None. Yeah. And Will has, like, if I
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: remember right after the slap, he sort of said something
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: like that up at the podium. Like, we're trying to
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: be these things, but who knows.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: And I was like, yeah, I have no idea who
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: the hell you are. I have no idea. And I
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: think that he's.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And the thing is, is that they, we didn't, we
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: don't have to know who they are.
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: Well, the question is, does he know who he is?
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: That's really the question. If he wants to hide who
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: he is, good on him. But I'm not even sure
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: he's figured out who he is yet. I don't know.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: But there are still great actors that we don't know
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: every little thing about their life.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: Especially from that era and before. That was routine.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, Keira Segwick and what's his name? Kevin Bacon.
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: Kevin Bacon, yeah.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Been married forever and everything. They're like one of the only...
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: But also, they didn't go on a million talk shows
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: as a couple. They didn't do any kind of like
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: glorify the relationship. or talk shows or anything to constantly
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: talk about their relationships. I don't even, I know they
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: have kids. I don't know who their kids are. I
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: don't know what they look like. You know, and they
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: went on and they like both have great careers. They're
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: not the biggest stars in the world, but like certainly.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: And they even lost all that money with Madoff.
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: Oh, really?
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: And they got through that. You know, whoever was the
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: first person to meet him at the Hamptons, he'd be like, motherfucker,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: why did you put our money? Like, but they got
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: through that.
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: And I'm just kind of like, Yeah, I think then
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: you put yourself out there as a celebrity, whether you're
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: an actor or an influencer or whatever, and you put
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: your whole... And the audience does feel like they should
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: know what's going on with you and know you. And
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: then in the end, yeah, you don't really even know yourself.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: Well, that's when it gets problematic. And that's his problem,
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: not ours. Yeah.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: And.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: But I think we live in a time when people
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: put it all out there and people expect to know
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: who you are and expect to see everything about you
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: and stuff. But it is kind of– I'm just thinking
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: in my little brain here that it is interesting. You know,
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: you and I put everything out there, right?
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: And yet the relationship with our world and the media
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: and audiences' relationship to both Peter and Susan– It's kind
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: of the same. They're sort of, they always want to
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: stay in the background. They kind of cut them in
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: and go out. But it's just, they have no skin.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: They have skin in the game, but they're not like
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: trying to.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Be the star or whatever.
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: Not to be the star, but also to tell you
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: everything about their life. I'm actually trying to bring her
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: in more on stuff because she sells things so well.
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: I don't like to sell anything. And when I have
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: ads on, I'm like, will you please, please, I'm convinced
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: when you say it, please say it. You know, but
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: she won't even do that, so.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Well, we don't know what will happen with them.
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: I don't know. Time will tell.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: You heard about Sophia and Joe.
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: And this one made me sad. So I knew Joe
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: back in the day.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: And I don't know her at all.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: Did I hear there was openness there too or something
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: or cheating or something?
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Not that I know of that. I mean, I talked
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: about it on a previous show that he is sober.
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: For a long time.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: But then they said for a long time. So the
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: article I read made it sound like That might have
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: been an issue.
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: It would be relapse. Relapse happens.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Well, it was that she was still having fun and
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: maybe he resented her for it. They're like, no, they
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: got together when he was sober and she's always been supportive.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: So I don't really know about that.
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: I would say two things.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: One is it sort of smacks of relationships that break
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: apart when the careers take them away from each other
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: too much.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, there is a limit to that. The relationships
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: have trouble surviving that. And especially when your job is
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: to go be intimately involved with other people, whether it's
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: acting and that kind of thing. It makes it really hard.
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: Because people are in a weird bubble when they're in
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: a production. And your husband is sort of at home
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: or whatever. And both of them are doing that. I
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: think that to me, I always worry about that when
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: I see that.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I am just like speculating. But I talked about
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I got some inside scoop. And one of the things
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I didn't share on the other show.
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: Spill.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Was with someone who worked on a movie with him.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: With Joe.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Yes. He asked my friend, something about mowing the lawn.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Does your husband mow the lawn or something?
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: It's an ad for Manscaped.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. It was actually mowing the lawn.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: And no, this is what he said. Sophia's mad. And
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: this is just hearsay, but it comes from a good source.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Sophia was so mad that I mowed the lawn. And
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: my friend goes, why did you do a bad job?
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: And he goes, no, she just comes from a really
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: wealthy background in Columbia.
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: Which is true.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: And so to have somebody to mow your own lawn
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: is like embarrassing and weird. And why would you do that?
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: And he comes from really like.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: Normal, humble. He was a roadie for I think Goldfinger
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: or something. That's when I knew him. He had just finished,
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: wasn't it Goldfinger? What's Goldfinger? It's an old, it's a
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: punk band from the 90s or 2000s. And all of
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: a sudden, this thing emerged in his life. And it
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: was not anticipated. His stardom, yeah. He was the nicest
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: guy ever. He was a really humble, really good guy.
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: I wondered about her upbringing and her aristocratic origins.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: And now I think it was, go ahead.
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: I'm just thinking it may affect her and her relationships
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: more than we all know, looking from the outside. I
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: used to know Julie Bowen pretty well, right, from the
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: mom from my family. And she seems really to love
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: Sofia Vergara.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: Like they're close friends.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: And to me that says something. Like, okay, well, whatever
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: this is I think I'm saying is probably not that
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: big a deal. But maybe in a marriage it does
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: make a big difference.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I just think it probably adds to
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: one of those things that were, go out of your background.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, that's why that dating eHarmony was
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: that old man came up with that thing that you
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: really should be a lot alike. Yes, opposites attract, but
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: maybe likeness is what can go the long road.
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: Well, this is something that goes back and forth in
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: the literature, right? In the psychological literature. There's no doubt
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: that we are attracted to similar and that we do
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: better with similar. And that most relationships start because of proximity.
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: It's the, magically you marry the guy that was in
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: the dorm down the road. Magically, that's your soulmate.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: But, but that, but that there are qualities I would posit,
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: personality qualities that they're different than sort of social, cultural
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: kind of qualities, right? And those kind of have to fit.
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: And if you have a, If you go more in
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: one direction, like I go more OCD, anxiety, intense, people
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: like that to be intimately involved with, for me, can't.
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: I can't do it.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: You often hear people go like, we grew apart or
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: we're just two different people.
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: I don't know what that means. Of course you're two
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: different people.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Of course you're two different people, but also like. Yeah,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: maybe you really are so different that you don't really
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: like the same things. You really don't have things in common.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: You don't have things to talk about. Morally, you're not
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: the same. Politically, you're not the same. Religion, you're not
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the same. I think you can have some things where
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: you're not the same, but I do think sometimes people
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: get married and then as time goes on, they're like,
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: oh my God, there's absolutely nothing that I like about
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: you or that you like about me.
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: That we could even do together. It's so funny. I
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: declared my love to my wife this morning because I'm
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: leaving this afternoon. I have to go to Boston. And
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: I'm going to miss our anniversary tomorrow. And I was
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: wanting to say to her, I sort of put it
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: in a note, was that I can't express, I feel,
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: I'm getting emotional today. It's very weird. What are you
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: doing to me? How much, I didn't know what this
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: to come across wrong. Maybe I should process this with
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: another woman. No, just say it. Which was how much
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: I like her. Like I like you so much. And
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: I didn't want her to go, don't you love me?
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: I thought you loved me. It's like, yes, I do.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: It goes without saying. But to really like not everything.
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: but even the things I don't like, I kind of like.
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: And that started for us. We both came to a
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: lot of our youth in Orange County on the beaches.
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: And we still like that. We like the same things
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: the same way. And so- That's kind of an important–
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: can be an important glue for a relationship.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely agree. I mean, I remember not
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: that long ago, maybe like 10 years ago or something,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Peter's sister said, oh, I just remember when he was
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: dating you. He said, this girl is just so much fun.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: I think I'm going to marry her. And I never
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: heard that.
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: That you were fun?
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that he had said that to people. Oh,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: it's not that. You know, I know I'm fun, and
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I would hope that he– but he does not– like,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: he'll put something in a nice card, and he, like,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: shows me in other ways. Like, you know, like the
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: other day, he was like, what about this for your
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: makeup thing for travel?
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: Like, it came up, and it was like this makeup thing.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: I didn't know you had a– Well, he knows I
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: need a magnifying light. Yeah. And this came with a–
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: where you put your makeup, and then the– for, for travel.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: So no matter what the bad lighting is in the hotel,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: you know, and it was like those thick kind of things.
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: But that's something.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Those are kind of like thoughtful.
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So I have to remind myself.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: That even though I'm not getting like told, I love
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: you so much. You're the greatest thing every single day.
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: It's like, it's very hard for you. Plus if you,
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: if you don't come from that kind of family system,
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: it's really hard to do. It's just hard to do.
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: But back to the fun part, I have, I had
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: need for fun too, because I came from a family
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: that was no fun. no fun. And so I kind
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: of had a craving for that, you know?
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: So I wonder if Peter came from something like that too.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no. We both like to have fun.
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: No, no, from his family of origin, whether he also,
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: my family of origin was no fun.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: No, they were fun and he was fun. And I
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: just think he knew like, I just knew that, like,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: I just thought that was interesting. But getting back to them,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: the other thing that, it sounds funny and I think
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: it's funny, but literally there was some, I talked about it,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: the same source, says that they have this little dog
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: named Bubbles.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: That she bought the Chihuahua for herself. The Chihuahua hates her.
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: And he's got the dog with him all the time.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: He's like Lisa Vanderpump, okay, with Jiggy.
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: That's so comical.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: It's funny. All the dogs love Ken and Lisa just
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: the same. You've witnessed it. It is not one hate. No. No,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: this little Chihuahua would bite.
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: Her and everything. Chihuahuas are notorious for that, though. Apparently,
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: chihuahuas choose their person, and that's their person, and that's it.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, they're probably the bitchiest of all the dogs.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: And they're nippy.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: So I kind of jokingly would also say, could that
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: have something to do with it? You know, that, like,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: you get this dog, and it's literally biting your wife.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Maybe you find it another home. I don't know. But,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: of course, yeah, you love this dog, whatever. But this
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: person wrote under my YouTube and said she has– talked
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: about this dog and joked about it on interviews, but
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: I could tell it was like a real point of contention.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Like at a certain point, like should a husband or
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: a wife go, you know what, this dog isn't working
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: for our family as much as I love it. It's like,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: it's just not.
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: Yes, I would hope so.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, at a certain point.
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: You would think so, but there's a part of this,
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: this is the male-female thing again. Women, a man would
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: never do this, but a woman would harbor resentments if
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: this dog were this way and somehow blame the husband
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: for it. Forget getting rid of the dog, but it
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: somehow would be his fault.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Right, or vice versa. Like the dog that doesn't like you,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: it's like, what if he's like, well, I don't know
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: why they don't like me. Maybe they know that you're
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: like evil inside. Who knows what they said? You know, like,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: it's just like, I just.
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: It's so funny.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: It's amazing. Okay. So let's move on. Do you know
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: this couple? I'm not going to talk about them because
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: you don't know about them. Kim and Corey, they're just
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: a nightmare. So just let me move on.
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: Nightmares are not good.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry about that. Kyle and Mauricio.
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Kyle used to be on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: Oh, she's not on anymore? I thought she still was.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: No, she is. Sorry.
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: She is still.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: And her husband.
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: She's sober a year? Is that correct?
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: She's been sober a year. There was always rumors because
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: he's such like a hot, sexy thing. that there are
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: always rumors about.
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: Him cheating and stuff.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: But there really wasn't any real evidence, but one tabloid
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: story that came out about a trans, it was so
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: long ago, I think they called the person a transvestite.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: That's how long ago this article was. And some other
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: person in which he would frequent and have this crazy
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: sex thing with. Who knows who these people were. They
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: didn't have a photo with him in the bed, nothing.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: There was never anything, but there's just rumors.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: And then now there's a rumor that she might be
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: with this other girl.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: She says they're just good friends, but they have matching
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: tattoos and all this other stuff. And then Andy Cohen
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: just said the other day, like, he's available. Like, someone's like, oh,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: he's the hottest one. And Andy goes, he's available.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: Uh-oh.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: I think Andy was just caught off guard. There was
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: a thing that said they were separated that it said, no,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: we're not getting divorced, but we've had the hardest year
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: of our life. But there's also like, the show's about
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: to start airing and this is going to get us
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: to watch when we're a little bit maybe tired of it.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: We're going to be that bitter.
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: Well, let me sort of add the score up and
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: read between the lines a little bit, which is first
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: year of sobriety, no major changes. You're not supposed to
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: make any major changes and you certainly aren't supposed to
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: get involved in a new intimate relationship, right? So if
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: she is actually sober, she is not involved with another woman.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Now, Now, she kind of took it from, I don't,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: she talked about her sobriety. And it was one of
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: those things like, I just woke up one day and
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: was like, it's not really working for me anymore. What
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: is it? Drinking. It wasn't like she had a deal.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: Oh, so she's not deep in sobriety.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: No, I think it was one of those like things.
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: She's been talking about it. Every time I see her name,
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: I'm sober here.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, but I think it kind of maybe began more,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: which everyone has their own journey.
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: It wasn't one of those rock bottom things. got a DUI,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: had to go to rehab. It was just like she
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: kind of woke up one day and was like, I
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: think I'm done for this for a while. And then
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: one month turned into two months to seven months to
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: eight months. And now it's been a year and she
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: even says, I'm not saying I'm going to be sober forever.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Don't hold me to it. But this is what I've
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: really enjoyed about it, my health and everything.
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: Her sister had a problem, right?
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Her sister's had lots of problems with drug and alcohol.
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: So I'm wondering if seeing all that maybe got under
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: her skin a little bit, Kyle's. And so she felt like, look,
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: I'm a hypocrite if I'm getting momentum with this stuff too.
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: And I keep pointing at my sister. I got to
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: take care of this stuff. So I suspect something like
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: that happened.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm seeing a lot of things that are
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: a big bummer in my TikTok feed, which is how
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: bad alcohol is for you, especially as you age.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: And your brain and everything. And I'm like, wow, that's
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: a big bummer.
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: But I mean, it's... It's not good. It's not good.
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: It's the only commonly used drug that is a carcinogen
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: to almost every tissue in your body. It is one
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: of the only ones that causes measurable brain damage over time.
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: Like you can plot it out in a very specific way.
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: Other ones do, but not as reliable as alcohol if
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: you keep with it. And it makes you older. It
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: makes you age. It sets the oxidative state of the
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: body off. It's not good for brain. But listen.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: Uh, this notion of trying to live forever and be
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: a 30 year old at 70 and stuff is flawed. Yeah.
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: It is not living. Uh, you have to get a
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: little philosophical sometimes. Uh, I feel pretty good at 65 that, that, um,
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: I feel lucky and, but I want to live. I'm
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: going to somewhere different. soon where I might be drinking
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: some wine. Yeah, yeah, enjoy, yeah. Yeah, I want to
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: live my life. You want to have.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: The dessert and you want to have a glass of wine.
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: I mean, I'll go through periods where I'm healthier than others.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: But to not live your life, to not enjoy your
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: life is a major mistake in my opinion. And I'm
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: not saying, you know, you should use that as a
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: way of justifying your cocaine use.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying that. I'm saying there's a balance.
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: There's a balance.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Well, we'll see what happens with them. This girl, Carly Russell.
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I want to see that.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Now, we're recording this in advance. Yes. But as of now,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: this girl is the new Sherry Papini.
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: Sherry Papini.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: You remember Sherry Papini? She went missing. She was jogging.
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: And she stayed with her boyfriend. She faked a kidnapping.
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: The point is- And also runaway bride. Remember that one?
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Let's just talk about fake kidnappings.
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: It's not even fake kidnappings.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Faking your own disappearance. What makes someone do that?
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: What makes the press reported is my question. What do
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: you mean?
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Did they want missing?
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: What is wrong with them? Yes. Missing person. Right. Don't
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: assume you know what happened. Remember the one to me
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: that was the paradigm was The Runaway Bride. There was
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: so clearly manic psychosis. So clearly. I don't remember that.
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: Remember she was on the phone and everything. She was talking.
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: She ran away like the day before her wedding and disappeared.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: Well, these two cases- These.
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: Are always serious mental illness. S-M-I.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. But wait. Hold on.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: I just want to say, because I understand what you're
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: saying about someone going crazy.
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Sherry Papini and this girl, Charlie, obviously they have a
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: mental illness to do this. Okay?
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: But it's showing evidence- Both of them, Sherry got convicted
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: of faking or kidnapping, using police money to look for her,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: lying to police, all of that. What, in your opinion,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: makes someone... I've thought about it, I've joked about it,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: I've said, oh, this would be a funny movie, but
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: to really go through it, to want people to worry
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: about you, to want to kind of become famous from
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: it and then come back okay from it, like, Because
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Sherry Papini never has given that sit-down interview and said,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: this is why I did it. Her own husband didn't
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: realize for like a year, four years later, was finally
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: when they cracked the case and said, and he realized,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: oh my God, she was with this other guy. She
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: never really was kidnapped. For 29 days, he and her
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: family and her two and four-year-old kids thought, that chances
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: are she's probably dead. Like, what makes someone do that?
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: Weirdly, I didn't realize that's what I was watching. I
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: watched a TikTok thread where she was doing the final
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: police interview where they gave her all the information that
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: they had.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Right, and the husband's sitting there going, what the hell?
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: And they've now broken up and she has to do
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: some time. But what would make someone really plot it
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: out and do that, in your opinion?
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: I think it reminds me of there's sort of a
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: zone that I'm sorry to say this, that women particularly
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: tend to get into of this secretive stuff. A friend
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: of mine did her whole FBI fellowship in women who
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: steal other women's babies. Oh, yeah. And they build these
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: huge stories. Sometimes cut out the babies.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: And that's like, to me, this is sort of in
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: that zone of needing this extraordinary attention and story and
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: then sticking with it. The sticking with it part is
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: the part that's astonishing, that they just will not let
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: it go. Is it a personality disorder? Certainly, right? I mean,
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: there's something characterological going on. I'm not sure I can specify.
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: It fuels narcissistic, borderline, all that kind of stuff. But
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: it's an odd thing, and I don't know that we
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: can sort of put it under a diagnostic category.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Like for Jussie Smollett, in my opinion, I think that
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: was a plan to fuel his career.
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: And use what was going on in society and everything
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: else to create this story that would get people hyped
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: up and he'd be a victim and all that. So
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: him already being a famous person choosing to do it,
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: I think is a different thing.
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: It is.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: This is really strange.
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: It is strange. And when I've seen them, let me
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: tell you, I'm trying to think about this woman and
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: it seemed watching that police thing. It was just a
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: woman who had an affair and wanted to hide it.
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: I mean, it just really made some horrible choices. Now,
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: why did she make those choices?
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't him. She really kind of used this guy.
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah. To protect her.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: He said they never even really had sex. This was
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: a whole weird, I want attention. Yeah. I really.
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: It reminds me of, it all goes in the same
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: zone somehow.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: And hopefully she's getting help somewhere, wherever she is. And
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: I would love her to sit down.
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: Oh, the awesome.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: I would love her to sit down with me. But
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: if she can't go with me, like somebody.
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: It reminds you of Jodi Arias a little bit. Yes.
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: It's that same zone. Obviously, she's a murderer. Yeah. It's different.
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: But it has this sociopathic kind of crazy quality about it.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of some other famous people here, I'm going
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: to skip over to Casey Anthony. Oh, look at Casey.
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: So Casey, I mean, she was a screwball, right? Right.
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: But I don't think she was horrible and evil like
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: they made her out to be.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: What do you think really happened?
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: I think the kid climbed in the pool and drowned
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: or something, and then the dad tried to hide it
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: or some stupid cover-up.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: All the chloroform that you don't think.
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: All that weird stuff where she was looking for ways to,
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: you know, I don't know what that was. So you, so.
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: All I kept saying at the time. And we built
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: a case on HLN that there was something really, really
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: wrong with her. She seemed terribly narcissistic. She seemed very
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: turned on by all the attention without really seemingly disturbed
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: by her child being dead.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: She was one of those like real pathological liars, which
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: is you're lying about what you had for lunch. Like
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: why it doesn't even matter.
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: But the one thing I kept saying was if she
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: is as psychopathic and problematic as everyone is saying, we
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: will see her again. She will not stay quiet. She'll
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: do something else. And she didn't.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: And she hasn't. Yeah. Do you believe that she was
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: molested by her dad and brother? No.
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: Did she say that to her?
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: She said, you know, once she was in prison for
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: a while is when she realized that's what happened to her.
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: Oh, boy.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: And then came forward with this story.
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: Oh, boy.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: I always thought she... I always thought she gave the kid, like,
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: too much Benadryl or something. Yeah. And accidentally... Overdosed the child.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: And then... Was sick enough to compartmentalize the whole situation.
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Avoid her parents, be like, well, it happened and I
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: loved her. So Bella via whatever tattoo and live on
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: my life. And like, I didn't mean for it to happen,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: but like, she's my angel in heaven and it's fine.
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: It's possible.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: And then when it finally had to come. And then,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: so she made it look like a psycho, you know,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: with the tape. Cause it was like all the materials
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: were from the house and everything. And then when she
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: was really up against a wall is when they built
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: the case of like the dad did it and the
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: dad molested her. And then when she recently did a story,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: they did a documentary about it. She said, well, the
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: dad comes up and is like, look what happened. She
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: fell in the pool or whatever. I'm going to take
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: care of her. But don't you.
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: Don't tell anybody.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Don't tell anybody because. You've always kept the secret every
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: time I molested you, so keep this secret.
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: I didn't get that part.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: I was joking when we were watching it because I
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: was like, did she think that he took it? And
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: he said, I'll make it better. She kept saying, I
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: thought she was alive. I thought she was getting fixed.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: I'm like, at the Pinocchio store? What do you mean?
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: If your kid was that sick, you wouldn't be going
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: to Target with your friend's credit card and you wouldn't
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: be getting captured. You would be like everyday dad, what
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: hospital is she at? Who is taking care of her?
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: When are we going to come forward? That whole thing
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: never got explained. And I think whoever was doing the
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: doc did it in a way to get people to
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: watch it because it literally made no sense at all.
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: And still there's lots of empty pages, unknowns in this.
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: Did her parents split up?
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Eventually, he got in a weird car accident. I don't,
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of real, I think, yeah, there
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: was weirdness in the family that could add to her weirdness.
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: Yes, for sure.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: And I do think like all this happened, she's proceeded
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: to like live an okay life, work for this detective
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: or this lawyer that helped her. And so, yeah, maybe,
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: I think it's good she hasn't been a mother. I
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: hope she never is a mother again.
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's the.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Job for her.
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: She's not a well person by any means.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: But maybe, you know, like I said, maybe she's not,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: the inherently evil.
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: They made her, yes.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: It's like, I think maybe this happened and then you're like,
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: how do I fix this? It's like something broke and
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: you're like, well, if I put the glue and put
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: it together, will my mom notice that I broke the vase?
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: And it's like, but it's a dead body.
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: Right. And, but that kind of childlike, immature quality, she
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: definitely had that.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: Like this kind of like, she should not have been
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: a mother. This was like a child.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: And she had the child young.
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: One of the questions was, what about Chris Watts? That
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: was the guy who, Who killed his two daughters and
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: his pregnant wife. And then, do you know this one
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: in Denver? And then put them in the... Well, okay.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: More about... Let me just ask a more general question
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: because you don't know this one. Because this is... One
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: of the questions was like, what drives someone to do
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: the suicide? Yeah. The killing the kids and then killing themselves.
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: There's sort of two versions of it.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: One is... total psychosis, schizophrenia or drug-induced or mania, oftentimes
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: those people think they're saving their family from something, like
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: that's how they think about it in their head.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: Like the demons or whatever.
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: Right, because the devils are going to torture them, I'm
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: just going to kill them to avoid the devils, whatever. Yeah.
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: And then when they kind of come to about what's
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: going on, then they can't handle it and they kill themselves.
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: There is the extreme, almost psychopathic narcissist, and there's lots
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: of examples of these, almost always men, who, you know,
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: there's a big breakup, they're losing custody of everything, they're
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: losing everything, and they sit outside the house and plot
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: and plan. These are cold-blooded psychopaths, essentially. And they blow
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: up the house or whatever, and they kill themselves. That's
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: the evil part. That's when people go into evil. This
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: had more of the crazy quality to it.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Well, he, yeah, this story was just so crazy. They
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: were living way beyond their means. She was in an MLM.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Having a multi-level marketing where she had to show on
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: Facebook that, oh, my God, I have the perfect family.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: I have the perfect life. Buy these energy patches and
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: look at your life get better. And he starts having
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: an affair. While he's having the affair, she announces she's
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: pregnant or right around then with their son. And, you know,
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: already crazy comes home from a trip and he strangles
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: her and then you know kills the two kids too
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: and hides them in his work which was like this
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: oil thing and he had this girlfriend who then went
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: in to witness protection we don't know where that girl
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: is um because she did.
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: You know did he kill himself nope In.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: Prison, probably, girls are probably writing him. He probably has
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: a girl. What do you think about people who write
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: people and girls who write men in prison?
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: It's this weird quality where women get turned on by dangerous, abandoning,
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: aggressive males. Don't know what their dads maybe were like.
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: But where they are contained, they don't have to worry
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: about it.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: They're not going to cheat. They're not going to do anything.
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: They're not going to get aggressive to them. They're behind bars. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're always available. They're always available to write you back.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: And they're very responsive.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: And they're telling you how great you are, how gorgeous
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: you are all the time. They'll come home and it's like,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: where's my dinner? They didn't forget to pay the- Pure fantasy.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: They didn't forget to pay a bill or anything else.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: And then as a female, this is like extreme codependency.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: You have the magical insight into they're a special person
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: and not understood properly, but I understand them. I understand. That's,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: of course, their wounded core that they're really responding to.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Is there any healthy relationship that can happen between
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: a woman who falls in love with someone who's behind.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: Bars- It depends how pathological the guy is, right?
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: And the female, too, to be that. But it's going
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: to need a lot of work. It's not going to
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: survive by itself. Right.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: Love after lockup is a show.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: They'd have to be super committed and then see a therapist.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: And neither of those kinds of people tend to do
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: well with commitment.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: What do you think about the Menendez brothers trying to
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: get a new trial?
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: Are they?
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: Because the latest news that came out was this guy
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: who was part of Menudo. He said that he was
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: unfortunately molested and raped by their father, who was the
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: head of the record label.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Even at their house. Yeah. And so that would mean
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: that their whole defense of that we were molested. So
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: the first trial that got out, and there was a
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: mistrial- They got to share that evidence from relatives and
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: whatnot that remember the boys saying things like, I remember
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: when I was eight and my cousin Lyle said this.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: All that got out in the first trial. There was
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: a mistrial. The second trial happened after they lost the OJ.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: And so then the DA was up against, I've got
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: to win this one. And the judge chose to say no.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: for this trial, none of that speculation from witnesses about
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: if they were molested or not can be heard. They,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: I guess, could say what they want, but no other
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: people could speak on it. And then they were convicted
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: of the crime, which we know that they killed them.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: There's no question that they killed them.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: The molestation is not a defense against cold-blooded murder. It
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: just isn't. Now, it might affect the sentencing or that
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: kind of stuff because it's attenuating circumstances, but or special circumstances,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: but a lot of people are molested and don't kill
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: their parents.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: You know, it's, to me, and by the way, if
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: you needed help, this is constantly my refrain, if you
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: have a serious psychiatric problem and it's making you violent
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: or psycho, whatever, get help. And if you get to
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: the point where you're drinking and driving and kill somebody, sorry,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: you just killed somebody and that's on you now.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: It's not your disease, it's you. And you have to
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: make that right. I am crystal clear about this, that
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: there's a point that once people cross that line, it's
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: up to the legal system at that point. It's not
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: a defense.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there was premeditation and everything that they,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: And by the way, you know what's interesting? Did you
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: see the documentary on them?
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, I've seen, I know everything about them.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: Hearing, I guess it's Kyle from Prisoner, they're separated them, right?
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: It's Eric and Lyle.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: Lyle.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: Lyle, I think, is the one now that's done a
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: lot of work or something, and he's sort of in recovery,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: and he's spiritual, and all these things. You've heard him
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: talk now?
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: He's very interesting to hear him talk. He's like a
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: new man.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: But also they were both, you know, they both had
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: a great privileged upbringing as far as they went to
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: Calabasas High. They got into good colleges. They were very
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: good tennis players. But then, of course, oh, they were
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: forced to do tennis. We were abused in between the
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: tennis matches. All of that. And then, but yeah, I mean.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: Talk about white people problem. Forced to do tennis.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: Sounds so silly.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: Then one was bald and he was wearing a toupee
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: as a teenager and the mom made fun of him. Yeah,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: they had a weird, sick dynamic. I don't question it.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: And one of them seemed more ill than the other.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 4: And one just got sucked into the other.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Well, the older, I think, would, you know, and the older,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: and then I think they realized that they were being,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: and then the prosecution was, they knew they were being
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: cut off because one had already dropped out of Princeton
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: for cheating on a test.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: And the other one, the dad was like, you're going
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: to go to UCLA, but you're going to live at
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: home because he had effed up. And so then the
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: defense was, well, the older brother knew that the younger
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: one would be subjected to being raped while he was
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: going to UCLA. And so our only means of getting
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: out of this before they killed us was to kill them.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: as they watched TV and ate ice cream and then
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: they got their two guns and they shot them. I
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: totally believe they did murder people premeditated cobalt. But I
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: do have some sympathy for the fact that I definitely
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: think they were molested, definitely think they were abused by
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: both the parents. And if there was a way to
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: either do another trial or something and that they could
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: at some point get out, in my personal opinion, I
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: think They have done the time for the crime of
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: their parents, and I don't think they're going to murder
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: anybody else when they get out. How do you feel
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: about the Manson girl? I mean– She just got out
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: at 71.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: I think it's going to be interesting. She's like 75
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: or 78 or something. And when people get older, even
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: violent people or even people with bad personality problems, it
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: all settles down when you get older.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: And the ones that are going to be a problem,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: it's always kind of obvious. And this one has been,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: this woman, I forget her name.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Van something.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: Van something. Was being of service and running groups and
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: really became an evolved person. I'm not worried about her.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, I feel horrible for her victims.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: Well, that's a different question.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: But, I mean, if we're just really looking at it,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: it's like she was, I don't even know if she
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: was 20 years old when it happened. Sucked into a cult.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: In that time, drugs and everything else. And it's like,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: and then, you know, 50 years of not doing any
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: of that, not being around any of those people.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: Well, it's an interesting question. I mean, is there a threshold?
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: And there's certainly, they were flirting with that threshold of horror.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: After which you should just pay ultimate price and that's it. Yeah.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: Regardless of the circumstances.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: I don't have a strong opinion.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Do you know, what do you think about the Idaho murderer?
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: Do you think he, what do you, what is your
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: opinion on this whole thing? He's just waiting. We're just
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: waiting for the, I guess for the trial.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: I forget the details on this.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: This was the, I remember he went to the, he
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: killed the four people in the house.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: And what was the, his deal? I forget his deal.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, he, he probably knew at least one of them.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: I think we don't, we still don't totally know like,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Who was he after? Did two other people wake up
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: and also become victims? So what happened?
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 4: The analysis I've heard of this guy, and again, I
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 4: have no direct information, was that this is a true
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: serial killer, a true who gets off on this stuff.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: And he was studying crime or he was a TA
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: even for a crime class.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: Yes, he was involved and fascinated by all this stuff.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: This is the real deal. As far as I can tell.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: And what, speaking of serial killers.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: If you see that series, what is it, Mind something?
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: About the FBI profilers and how they developed this. It
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: goes into great detail about how they came up with,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: who these guys are and how they came up with
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: profiling them.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: This is the newest serial killer. This is the Long
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: Island serial killer who killed all the sex workers over
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: the last 12 years.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: You're bumming me out, man. Let's talk about marriage again.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: We're going to get into some other, we're going to,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: We'll wrap it up in a minute. But that's why
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: I put the marriage stuff at the top. When these
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: serial killers that are not just like living in a
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: basement by themselves, they have a full job. He was
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: an architect in Manhattan. At one point, his client was
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump for something. He lived in a nice neighborhood.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: He had a wife and kids. What is your opinion
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: of that, where you're living this whole other life?
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: That's often the way they are. It's, it, and you know,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: it is both, there's different versions of it, right? Sometimes
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 4: it's sexual gratification that they need this in order to
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 4: be sexually satisfied. Sometimes it's the power and control and
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: actually witnessing the terror in the other person that they
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: get off on, so to speak. But it's something that
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 4: they need, even when it's not sexual, kind of has
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: that kind of libidinal drive to it.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: They have to gratify it periodically.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: And even though it's not there all the time and
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: they are not having any aggressive feelings towards other people
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: or desire to kill other people, they have this vision.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 4: specific thing that they have to gratify once in a
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: while and they just go do it. It's the worst.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: That's where people get into evil.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: And then they also have fun of like being so
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: good at that they're not getting caught. Yeah.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: Crazy.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 4: Mind hunters, I think that thing was called. You got
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 4: to watch that series.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: It really does a great job of- The last one
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you about is this nurse. This
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: was the male nurse, Charles Cullen. They did a movie
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: about it. How he.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: He was killing patients or something?
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was killing patients. He was acting like he
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: was the most caring thing.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: And he would get off on killing not even people
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: that were that old, but just like... And they finally...
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: What makes a health professional do that? Because he's not
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: the only one. There's been a few.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: Well, when I've seen it in the past... It's sometimes,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: and I don't think that's what this is, but sometimes
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: it's a sort of evangelical, like a vigilantism.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: Like we're letting people suffer. They need to just be
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: allowed to die naturally. Right. We're going to help them
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: along and they're going to stay in the system forever
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 4: and they don't know how miserable they're going to be.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 4: I need to help them and save them from this system.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 4: Because again, almost like the psychotic mom killing the kids
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 4: for the devil doesn't get them.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: They feel justified in saving them from the misery that Now,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: I'm guessing that as a nurse, we see a lot
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: of misery and suffering, and maybe they can't handle that.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 4: And so they have to save people from it, something
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: like that. I don't think that's what this was. Right.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: This guy actually seemed to get off on it, which
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: is that other thing I was just talking about.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: Yes. Drew, we are going to talk more, but we're
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: going to do it on Patreon because it does get
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: a little juicier and darker.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 4: Oh, boy. Darker than what we've been talking about.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: Why do you take me down these paths? Everybody knows
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: who you are, but just tell them where they can
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: find you and all the shows you're working on.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: Do come up and say hi to me if you're
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 4: a juicy scooper. I love that. I really, really, really
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: do enjoy this community. The show that Susan produces right
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: now is on fire. It's Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Most Tuesday, Wednesday,
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 4: Thursday at 3 o'clock. It's a streaming show. Just go
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 4: to DrDrew.TV and you'll get a blast on that. And
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: I've been interviewing all the people that have been silenced
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 4: during COVID. And I realized some of them are non-scientific
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 4: and some of them aren't saying things I really agree with.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: But I've learned something from every single one of them.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: And I'm realizing through having done this show and really
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: trying to put together the history of what happened to
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: us the last three years, I'm realizing there's a bigger
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: problem than just people being non-scientific. There is a social, cultural,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: political thing that's preventing us, the scientists and the clinicians,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: from even getting access to the science. And so that's
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 4: a bigger problem. And I'm very, very concerned about that.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: I thought about that in the shower this morning. I thought, oh,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 4: that's why I'm fascinated by this. Because I'm trying to
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 4: understand the science. If I don't have access to the
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: back and forth in medical literature that we normally have,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 4: what am I looking at? I don't understand what it
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 4: is I'm doing anymore. And that's a cultural problem. so
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 4: anyway that and dodoctor.com after dark more comedy stuff you'll
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: like that a little better it's more like Loveline and
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 4: then I do a show with Adam still now three days.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: A week that's great Adam Carolla alright thank you.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: A cuppa a breather a moment for you for a
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: change when you spend your days looking after others it's
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