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Existential Crises and the need for Cyber Feminism Part 2 with TL;DR · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, good morning, good evening, good afternoon, wherever you
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: may be. And welcome back to Honey Badger Radio. My
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: name is Brian, I'm with Allison and our special guest, til.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Dear, and this is what is this exit.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: We're gonna be talking about cyberfeminism today some more. We're
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: actually getting into the meat of this discussion. Donna Harroway,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: who is the.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Cyborg manifesto, Yes, the author of which is this author
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: of the cybborg manifesto called Staying with the Trouble, which
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: is essentially, it's not about the nail, guys, it's about
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: what we feel about the nail. It's not about cyborgs,
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: it's how we feel about them. And she has a
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: pH d in biology from Yale and is a longtime
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: professor at UC Santa Cruz. And if you guys weren't
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: there or you want a refresher, essentially, her entire lecture
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: was about Donna Harroway and how she fits in the
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: social web, so everything that was personally about her. She
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: talked about her parents, her stove, and Santa Cruz with
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: little lemon in the hen her PhD development, her intellectual
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: migration into organismic biology, meeting Lynn Margellis's work, Scott Gilbert,
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: her friend, teaching biology in Honolulu, the Cyborg Manifesto, Siam,
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: her agility, Dog, her agility, explaining training experience with Siam,
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: her students from Waka studying English with her, Alison Jolly,
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: a contemporary at Yale. Same you know, so in her
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: social web, her litter, Cyborg's companion species, odd Kin, molecular creatures.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: So essentially what her I guess edkin that she has
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: in her head and her self identification is a posthuman
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: exceptionalist and her ontological commitments. So that was like the
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: load bearing structure and it all relates back to her.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: And she talks about migrants, climate disasters, fascism, Gaza, border walls, monarch, butterflies,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Karen Russell's novel, linth Rudolf's paintings, and on Naco mouse
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: simb symbiogenesis. Simbiogenesis is theory, bimbiogenesis. I think simbiogenesis is theory,
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: string feeling, fingering, figuring, string figuring. This is her contribution
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: as philosophy, the dustbel and this is all medium and
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: according to my cognitive modality swap test, the medium it's
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: four is if you replace post human exceptionalism with any
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: other philosophical framework that signals the same group membership, the
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: lecture survives. You replace situation situated knowledges with any other
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: epistemological commitment that positions the speaker in the same intellectual tribe,
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: the lecture survives. Replace string fingering with any other metaphor
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: for collaborative, non hierarchical meaning making, the lecture survives. It's
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: relational topographical processing. So it's all about who is allied
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: with whom, what signals membership, what positions the speakers in
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  Speaker 3: the network. In the relational network, the ideational material is
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: not actually the thing. It is the medium through which
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: she is signaling her relationship in the social web, and
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: so it's still she's basically just using everything to signal
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: her relationship. And that's all that this this entire thing
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: was about. It was about Donna Webb and where she
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: situates herself or where she is situated in the social
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: relationship of her particular community. And then the additional content
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: is how she feels about all of these things, and
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: how the audience feels about all of these things, and
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: of course they feel bad they're not doing anything to
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: change any of the problems she identifies. But they're all
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: going to sit with feeling bad about them and signal
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: that they want to change it really badly. Not going
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: to do anything about it, but they're all going to
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: signal to each other that they are the correct compassionate people.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: And that is the entire content of her lecture. It's
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: just that being seen, being seen is being compassionate and
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: non hierarchical and and and collaborative and uh. But but
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: she also has she also has thoughts about cyber feminism
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: as well as well as well as being seen. You know,
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: so that's what we're gonna be covering today.
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: Did you Is that it?
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: Okay, like a covery of what we what we went
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: through last time.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: So people are yes, more or less. I mean, as
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: you talked about.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: The string thing, I don't know what that was about.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: And now we're going to get into I guess the
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: meat of the cyber feminism itself.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna make a possion, okay, make a prediction.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: Well, this entire lecture is the entire cognitive content. Was
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: I am Donna Harroway. These are my people, These are
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  Speaker 3: the things my people care about. This is where I
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: sit in the web. I'm guessing that cyber feminism or
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: cyber ology or whatever the hell she's talking about is
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: also going to be that. It's just it's just she's
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: just really likes the word. The word feels nice as
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: it comes through her lips. Cyber no. So they were
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: gonna make the mouth noises that indicate that they belong
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: in their particular social web. But anyway, let's continue.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: All right, So let's get into the things, then the things.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, do the things first, all right.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: So, if any point throughout the show, you wish to
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: send us some messages, a message, if you wish to
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: engage with our social node. Oh that sounds really bad, Okay,
• 5:50
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  Speaker 3: message with that tip. So once again, feed the Badger
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• 6:00
  Speaker 3: to support the show, feed the Badger dot com slash support.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: And if you want to join us in our community
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: and read more of my thoughts on these things, you
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: can do so. Because that's where I put it. I
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: prefer to talk to a community, not to random people online,
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: unless it's on Twitter, but then you get to argue
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: with them, so it's okay anyway, it's if you want
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: to join the community badger Nation dot online. So those
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: are the three things to consider and let's get into it.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Back to you, Brian, all right, okay, let's do it.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: So if mister Tilda, yes, please, yes.
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: Have a brief interruption if I may, because we're talking
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: about cyberfeminism, women technology, feminism, technology, et cetera. As people know,
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: I have a stack of textbooks feminist textbooks in my
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: office which I consult every so often. I've gone through
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: one here from the Open University. This was in the nineties,
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: Inventing Women, Science, Technology, and Gender. Unsurprisingly, Donna Haraway has
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: a reference in this textbook, her primatology paper. That's the
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: paper which first appeared in I think it was the
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: Socialist something magazine where it was first published, so it's
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  Speaker 5: the same person. It's just very interesting that she's got
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: that reference in here, and it talks about your western
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  Speaker 5: scientific knowledge. It only has legitimacy because it's it's men,
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  Speaker 5: it's not women. And then, very interestingly, the couple of
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: paragraphs that she cited go ons to necessarily talk a
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: lot about how it's used for standpoint theory, which is
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: something that she said in this talk that's not what
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: it is. But I literally have a textbook here referencing
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: her saying that that's what she does and what it is,
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: and how all of these and then talks about how
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  Speaker 5: there are other theorists who have correctly spoken about women's
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  Speaker 5: activities on Stewart Mill col Marks, Frederick Engels, Frederick Douglas, etc.
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  Speaker 5: So I just I found that very very interesting that
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: that was a thing. Book. Like I said, it's just
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: a couple of paragraphs. I don't know if you want
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: me just to go through it'd be a bit too
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: much of a digression.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, I guess it's giving us like a
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: little bit more of the starting con what's the word
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: I'm looking for, the starting context, right, so we know
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: where this woman, like in the other in the other
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: ways that she has contributed, as it were, to the
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  Speaker 1: academic discourse.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, the reason I went through this book is because
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  Speaker 5: this one does have a chapter very specifically about like
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  Speaker 5: women and feminism in technology. There's some very interesting things
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: in there that might be worth talking about. But because
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: this is related to Harroway, I'll go through this bit.
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  Speaker 5: So this is from the Nature for Science, Knowledgy and
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: gender Inventing Women's from chapter one the nature of Science
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  Speaker 5: and Technology and how the women's movement benefits science. So,
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  Speaker 5: historians of science and the theories of scientific knowledge, such
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  Speaker 5: as Evelyn Fox Keller, Carolyn Merchant, and Donna Harroway and
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  Speaker 5: Susan Bordeaux have argued that extremely abstract elements of Western
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  Speaker 5: scientific thought gained legitimacy because they both reflected and reinforced
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  Speaker 5: certain historical aspects of men's experiences. So, from the perspective
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  Speaker 5: of the standpoint theorists criticism of science as usual, women's
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  Speaker 5: scientists can bring certain benefits to the growth of knowledge
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  Speaker 5: if they can find ways to use their experience as
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  Speaker 5: women to create a critical perspective on the dominant cultural schemes.
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  Speaker 5: I am not suggesting that the historians are standpoint theorists,
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  Speaker 5: but that their analysis permits such accounts of the natural sciences.
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  Speaker 5: I hasten to mention that these theorists do not argue
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  Speaker 5: that all women scientists automatically bring such benefits to science,
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  Speaker 5: or that only women can look at the world from
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  Speaker 5: the perspective of women's activities.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, can I point something out? So they're basically saying
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  Speaker 3: that women can bring the benefit of their own emotions
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  Speaker 3: and opinions to science, which is supposed to be about
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  Speaker 3: objective truth.
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  Speaker 5: Well, last time I think it was we talked about
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  Speaker 5: how women's opinions are the only given the unbiased form
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  Speaker 5: of it. But it's interesting here, of course, they say,
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  Speaker 5: I'm not saying that all women do this by default,
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  Speaker 5: it's only some women who do it, which of course
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  Speaker 5: means the left wing women and far left socialist.
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  Speaker 3: And not the pick mees and handmaids and the women
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  Speaker 3: who are actually advancing science to some degree in their
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: respective field. The women who do science can't do science,
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  Speaker 3: is what she's saying. Or they can't comment on science.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, later on in the book where they actually
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  Speaker 5: talk about, like, you know, the objective uses of science
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  Speaker 5: and technology, they make this very bizarre case that women
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: can't into science because it's too complicated, because it's not
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: wibbly wobbly wouness enough. But there's literally a part in
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  Speaker 5: this book where they talk about how there's a case
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  Speaker 5: study of a woman sort of early in the field
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: of computers and computer coding, who complained that computer coding
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: is too rigid and too logical and that it should
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: be more like poetry because that's how she interacts with
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  Speaker 5: the world.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, so we wow, this is the intersection of bad
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  Speaker 3: science and most likely bad poetry.
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  Speaker 5: Great, yeah, you can't have if then you have to
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: have wherefore arta hold off and verily thus and so,
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: but with.
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  Speaker 3: No actual merit to it. So I mean, basically, it's
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  Speaker 3: just be women. There are feminists screech poetry. Do they
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  Speaker 3: just get up on stage and screech things? You know,
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: That's what That's what it'll be because you can't apply
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  Speaker 3: any kind of metrics because the poetry does have metrics
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: that would indicate whether or not one poem is better
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: than another poem. I mean, this is a no degree.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: It's subjective, but there are some objective metrics, and of
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: course they're going to deny that.
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  Speaker 5: And then they created free form poetry, which doesn't have
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: to have any structure or write or rhythm or anything
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  Speaker 5: like that.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Even free for poetry, you could still say that one
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  Speaker 3: of the objective measures is the specificity of the experiences
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: it's depicting. I mean, I'm pretty sure they'll deny that too,
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  Speaker 3: So eventually it's you have to strip away all merit,
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  Speaker 3: even even imagery, like poetry is about imagery. You gotta
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: strip that away. So I'm you know, it'll be in
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: doing science through the feminist lens. It'll just end up
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: being a bunch of women in lab coats screeching at.
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: Things with.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Great enthusiasm. And that's gonna the female the correct female
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: contribution to science. Okay, this is a bit of a digression,
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  Speaker 3: I apologize, Tiel Deer.
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: Continue. So they argue instead, only the powerful critical theories
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: is pause for buzz us there, because of course, only
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  Speaker 5: powerful critical theories can be developed out of the gap
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: between half of human experience that is assigned to women
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: and the conceptual schemes grounded only in masculine experience. So
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: we need communism because communism represents women better.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: Well, then at least they're honest about that.
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: Sometimes they seem to get into arguments there. Well, not
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: with what with necessarily the people in the community, but
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of people who don't want to make
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: the association between communism and the way women think.
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: I know it is. I mean, this book actually even
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: kind of mentions the whole relational thing and how that's
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: how women think and why computers should be like that.
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: I literally have a book here somewhere in this book
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: which is literally just like relational shit. Send this to
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: Allison because you'll like it. But no, I haven't done
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: that yet. I just highlighted it.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: All right, Okay, well, something to look forward to.
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: Oh, it is just a paragraph. We can go through
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: it in a bit, but that's a bit more of
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: a digression, so last bit of the paragraph. Thus, the
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: feminist critique of science as usual provides a different assessment
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: of the resources of science that women scientists can provide,
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: where it is primarily their numbers and their gender free
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: talents and abilities the critics of bad science think make
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: an important contribution to the growth of knowledge. It is
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: their ability to speak from the perspective of their specific
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: activities as women that is important to the standpoint theorists.
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: I think that men too can speak from the perspective
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: of women's activities. These theorists might say that John Stuart Mill,
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: Carl Mark's, Frederick Frederick Douglas, and other male feminists have
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: done so, but men can do so only after women
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: have articulated what that experience is and after men too
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: have engaged in those political struggles to which I next turn.
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: And then the remainder part of this is, well, the
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: next section is then how feminist politics benefits science standpoint theory.
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: So I once again hasten to point out to people
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: when Donna Harroway the last time we met, said what
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: we're talking about here is not standpoint theory. I disagree.
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: And even if she thinks that it isn't, it seems
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: somewhat apparent to me that her writing is being used
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: to justify and or expand standpoint theory. So even if
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: she thinks that that's what it isn't, in practical terms,
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: that's what it seems to be ending up with or
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: ads or causing, however you want to think about it.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: How toxically masculine recognizing that a thing is the thing,
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: that it is so so toxic, so patriarchal, so much
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: patriarchal privilege and crushing of the girl cell I have
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: never hear heard so much. How dare you use the
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: dictionary that's a tool of patriarchal oppression? How dare you
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: make equivalencies logical equivalencies that one thing is the same
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: thing as the thing that it is A equals a.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: That's that's that's ultimate patriarchy. Shush quiet with your man thoughts.
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: Okay, sorry, well kind of is all right?
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Is that the paragraph fiel dear?
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that is my digression. I will now go back
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: to being silent for as long as I can.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, let's start with the timecode. So this
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: is like we covered a majority of the video. No, yeah,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: a little over half, so we're going to go through
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: the rest of it this I do have time codes,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: so we're going to start with talking about as sim
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: sim poet sim poetic, reciprocal inductions and organisms and digital machines.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: So anyway, yeah, it's it's kind of a mouthful, I know,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: Good, all right, particularly of the practices of World War two.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Oh can you guys hear it? Oh yeah you can,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: you can? Okay, let me just make sure the volume
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: is good, okay.
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: And subsequently and maybe especially to the practices of the
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: electronic battlefield in the wars in Southeast Asia, the US
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: War in Vietnam that established the Pacific the Pacific Zone
• 17:40
  Speaker 6: as an electronic battlefield command center and invented the concept
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: of command control, communication intelligence cubed I.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: I was a young teacher in Honolulu.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, this lady's really good at branding stuff, or
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: at least like coming up with new like buzzwords and terms.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: SEQ see cubed I.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Is that that sounds like something she made up to
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: like make this sound like it's part of some broader system.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: But I don't know.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the symbolic universe, extended universe of donnay.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I mean maybe I don't think that's how normally exactly
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: she's world building.
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: It is interesting that she talks about a theater of
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: war use because again I'm going back to this textbook.
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: I'm very happy I read this chapter before I came
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: on here, because this chapter talks about like the early
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: forms of computers and sort of when they just started
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: getting into the market. And there's an entire section in
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: this book which talks about like how and why male
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: majority happened in computing, and they talked about how well,
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: when computers started coming out, they were first sort of
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: used in military contexts because, as it turns out, they're
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: really good for calculating things and working out more complicated
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: things than humans can do like crocket trajectories and things
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: like that, stuff that can go up into the air,
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: change direction and move for you. You can do all
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: these sort of complicated calculations that humans just can't do,
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: and they can frequently alter them on the fly, and
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: so on and so forth. And this textbook makes the
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: case that because computers, like early home computers, grew out
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: of that technology, that is part of what made them
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: male centric, because of like men's enjoyment of war, and
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: that is the why women got kicked out of computing.
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: It's just funny, fuck it, I'll just read it. It
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: was no accident that most of these early games were
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: military simulations of some kind. It's just talking about things
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: that started making early computers popular. There were games they
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: reflected the major software research and development of the time.
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: Warfare simulation games are at least as old as chess,
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: but computing games are new, and that they simulate not
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: only the tactics but the site and sound of a kill.
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: The analogy for men between warfare and gaming and sports
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: is strong. War is a brutal, deadly game. What a
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: game the best there is? And men love games. So yeah,
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: the feminist viewpoint there is that men love war because
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: it's fun.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. Because men like to play games
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: that simulate war, they must like war itself. Yeah yeah, obvious,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: just like because they're.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Violent, just like women like games that simulate destroying people reputationally,
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: except they're not games, they're actually real life.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: What was it that men were into before games were
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: about war?
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: What? What? What?
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: What does it say about men who played Breakout or
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: pac Man? Was that they were gluttonous or interested in destruction?
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: What about Mario brothers?
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: Like?
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: What? Okay?
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: Okay?
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: Well I mean, well you also have like Sim's city
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: or when interested in infrastructure work and sim like mechanical
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: where you can be a mechanic in a garage? Are
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: men interested in.
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: It?
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Reduced it? It is a couple things that I notice
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: about that paragraph. It reduces down to somebody who just
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: hates the way men are and what they do and
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: what they attend to period. And also, I'm going back
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: to the Hathaway Haraway sorry her away lecture. Did you
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: notice how she stayed with some war command communication she
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: had that buzzword and then she immediately pivoted back to
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: its personal relationship to herself, like the specific war and
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: I was in Honolulu, you know, like that, Yeah, let's
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: let's see, let's let's let's have let's make sure that
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: Donna Hathaway is seen. I just wanted to pull up
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: a comment by the Great Indoors Donna harrow Way is
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: a scene girl, she is seen.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I just found that really amusing.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: Okay, I want to.
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: Go into just sorry, it's okay. This is just what happens.
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: Like you may so many times when I watch episodes
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: of this, I point at the screen, I do the meme,
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: the what's his name? Rich act? I do that mean
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: pointing at the screen except this of a beer can.
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: I've got a feminist textbook in my hand, and I'm
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: just like, this is in here, Come on more stuff
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: Like it's just funny if you want to just talk
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: about how they have like this, this casual contempt for
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: how men do things in general. They have a bit
• 23:00
  Speaker 5: here where they just declare that men's interests in computers
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: and all this stuff is just useless and dumb, but
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: women's stuff is not. So it's just kind of funny.
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: Is In general, male hobbies can be distinguished from female
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: hobbies in that the latter need little capital outlay and
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: have a useful end product. They are often related to
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: pre industrial crafts such as knitting, sewing, embroidering, flower arranging,
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: whereas the former need a large capital outlay and produce
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: little or no end product, being done for the pleasure
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: of the activity itself, for example fishing, photography, ham radio,
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: and electronics. So, men, your hobbies of learning how technology
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: works and all useless useless. No, but women embroidering things
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: and sitting darning, Well, they watch soap operas. That's the
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: real backbone of society, don't you know. Ah, and you
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: in this with the fact that earlier in just earlier
• 24:03
  Speaker 5: in this book, they literally had a bit where they
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: justify how washing machines oppressed women. I need to put
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: this book away. I'll just I'll keep I'll keep sidetracking
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: us into other interesting related to the techno ship that
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: she's talking about.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: Make sure that you you read the paragraph that you're
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: talking about in terms of the relationally like the one
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: that's flagged for me.
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: Oh well, we can just do that now, because it's
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: about relational modalities and how women interact with technology. Okay,
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: So it's from Turkle who was some theorist one. She
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: talks about the need to use these bricle methods of
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: understanding things, taken from the term brickle age, which is
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: different ways of thinking about things, and that there was
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: a way of observing things with this briclear method of
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: doing things where basically, so he's grow out of one
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: method of understanding and then it creates this sort of
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: hierarchy of understanding where you learn more, technology gets better,
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: you learn more technology gets better, and the previous underlayer
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: is superseded by the next thing. Now, because she is
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: a rampant communist, previous levels of understanding are no better
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: nor worse than the next one up. So you know,
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: cutting people's hearts out and offering them to the storm
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: God is just as valid as antibiotics, because hey, who
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: are you to say otherwise. But she goes into a
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: little bit into that femicide just just to.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: Get this right, that that's you can't make those distinguishing
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: But but we all know that patriarchy is bad. You
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: can't be it's you can't you can say that you
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: cannot judge anything, any social practice as better or worse,
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: but patriarchy is definitely the devil. Okay, and that's not
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: creating a hierarchy. All right, I'll continue, But no.
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: It's just it was just this one paragraph, lacking some
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: of the context around it. It may not tickle you
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: in the same way it did my brain, but we'll see.
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: So several intellectual perspectives suggest that women would feel more
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: comfortable with a relational, interactive, and connected approach to objects,
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: and men with a more distant, stanced planning, commanding and
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: imposing principles on them. Indeed, we have found that many
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: women do have a preference for attachment and relationship with
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: computers and computational objects as a means of access to
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: formal systems. Yet in our culture, computers are associated with
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: a construction of science that stresses aggression, domination, and competition.
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: And then she expands on to how you know coding
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: is logical and women are not. It's literally just computers
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: are too stupid for women, basically, because surely after this
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: is the you know, the woman who needs to be
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: able to code using poetry instead of logical code because
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: she is just she's too big brain for computers.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: Sounds like AI, Now we finally got the right kind
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: of coding environment for women and it's AI.
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so this is I just found that interesting because
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: they talk about this relational need and it is very
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: specifically a little after that, a relational need for interacting
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: with computers, as in they have to be able to
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: like just talk to it like a person, as opposed
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: to you know, tickety TACTI typing if then go to rewrite,
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: et cetera.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: It's basically like I said, AI.
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I just found that rather funny.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is, and it does actually map exactly to
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: the relational versus operational modality.
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: And this book was published in nineteen ninety two. I
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: think it was so nobody more prescient, I suppose in
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: that regal.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: And nobody really pointed out that computers aren't people. Like
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: a lot of people think that AI is some kind
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: of something like an actual satience or like safe sentience
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: or a person or a presence, and it's not. It's
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: basically a stochastic spreadsheet. So what she's saying is women
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: need to have relationships with things that are not entities
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: at all. Okay, but but I guess that's the ultimate
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: extension of the relational modality. Even something that is a
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: complete inanimate object must we must have a relationship with it,
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: as opposed to recognizing that probably the most beneficial thing
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: to do with tools is to use them as tools.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I am such a pickmy That is
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: such a patriarchal thought. I should go wash my mouth out.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: Who's soap or something with a with a with a
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: copy of Andrea Dorkin's novel or book whatever. All right,
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: let's keep let's keep going.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: So should I play more of the video?
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, get back to the video. That was interesting
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: to youal there, Thank you for thinking about me while
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: reading that.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: All right, let's keep going.
• 29:25
  Speaker 6: Then biology to the unwashed of the world, that is
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: to say, non science majors, those people who would become
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: fashion design majors and tourist industry management majors and historians
• 29:38
  Speaker 6: and definitely not scientists.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: So I was teaching the great unwashed in the period of.
• 29:44
  Speaker 6: The Vietnam War, where the electronic battlefield was being established
• 29:49
  Speaker 6: and strengthened.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: And there's no possible way that I and my peers
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: could teach the ways of God.
• 29:54
  Speaker 6: To man and teach capitalist science to the great unwashed,
• 29:58
  Speaker 6: as the as that area of life which would be
• 30:01
  Speaker 6: free of the great pollutions of modernity, religion.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: And politics to be solved by science.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: What the.
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: Bad is that?
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: Just like lots of words for capitalism bad.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: She was basically saying that you can't sell up. You
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: can't separate science from politics and religion. The cyborg's birth
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: and significance is from this concept's She's also suggesting that
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: because we use technology during the Vietnam War, we had cyborgs.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Like when a cyborg for her is not like the
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: cool kind of romanticized RoboCop, you know, vision, It's more like,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: do you use technology? Yeah, so that makes you a cyborg? Like,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: you know, do you have a cell phone and you
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: use your cell phone to look things up online or
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: engage in social media, record videos or take pictures, you're
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: a cyborg.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know if she's like, I don't think she's
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: condemning it.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: I think she's going to try to suggest that the
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: people who currently use science like the war machine, are
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: just the wrong people for the job.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: And it shouldn't be them, that it should be like
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: fashion designers and the unwashed. I'm assuming she's painting a
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: picture of the non science people as better people because
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: they're not privileged with science. Like the scientists are I don't.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: I think that's what I think anyway, But yeah, yeah, yeah, science.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's published me with science.
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: Sorry. Like I said, I'm just gonna sign off with
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: a yes on that that she is basically saying that
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: you can't privilege the the non scientist unwashed over that,
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: because you know, going back to that, I don't remember
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: what that very clear, whatever the hell it was different
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: means of understanding things. You can't discount the line below it,
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: And my god, I just had to check this again
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: because I read this earlier from this goddamn textbook. They
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: actually talk about that as well, and about how this
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: is why you need to not forget the unwashed masses.
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: You need to don't dim yourself down to their you know,
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: rain dances to the Great Earth Mother or whatever it is,
• 32:41
  Speaker 5: as being a legitimate way of doing things as well,
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: because that means that you that they then relearn the
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: science in their own sort of way. And there is
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: actually a paragraph here. I'm sorry, I'm going to just
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: keep going through some of these things. I don't know
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: whether this is fortuitous I read this or not, or
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: whether this is too much of a digression.
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: No, that's fine.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: We digress as this honestly we are. We are trying
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: to talk to analyze a digression in the human in
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: the course of human history. But just what's the name
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: of the book? Maybe indicate that for again.
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's a textbook from the Open University, which
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: is the open university in the UK. It's not like
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: a brick and mortar university. It's you're an adult and
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: you want to learn more stuff. A lot of their
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: stuff is distance learning. It's the textbook with Inventing Women's Science,
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: Technology and Gender is edited by Gil Kirkup and Lorie
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: Smith Keller. Is published in nineteen ninety two. It's part
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: of a four book series and this is used for
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: their you know, women's studies gender studies courses back in
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: those days. There's another reason I like using it because
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: this one is actually very love to Donna Harroway because
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: this is the stuff from her generation, which might be
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: why pretty much anytime she says something, I'm just like,
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: I have a reference from that in one of these
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: four books or something relating to it, because it's the
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: same generation. So the bit here where it's talking about
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: you know, the third worlds and whatnot as it is so. Argawall,
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: who is one of the people that is referenced in
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: this book, describes the problems of implementing technological developments which
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: would improve the domestic lives of poor rural women. The
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: greatest barriers tend to be ideological and social. Argawall's case
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: study illustrates in more details some of the issues discussed
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: by I cannot pronounce this name Chucker Varity. In article
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: three point seven, which is an earlier part of this book,
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: she describes the use of low technology participant design process,
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: which has produced successful, improved versions of domestic stoves that
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: are within the resources available to the rural pore and
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: which are appropriate to the cultural needs of the community,
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: in fact, appropriate technology. The participative process she describes, where
• 35:14
  Speaker 5: women teach each other's skills and so develop expertise both
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: individually and within the community, would be regarded as exemplary
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: by many feminists and others concerned to find ways to
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: transfer technology to less industrialized countries in ways that take
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: into account the needs and lifestyles of the users. That's
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: just that paragraph. Now. The important part there is not
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: the we're making it appropriate to the materials they have
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: on hand, like the resources they haven't had. That makes sense.
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: You know, you can't go out into the middle of
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: Africa and build a nuclear fusion engine. They just don't
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: have that level of technology there. But you can teach
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: them to shape like metal cookware rather than roasting things
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: on a stick of wood like, you can do that
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: because it's appropriate. But the bit that is interesting there
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: is what is you know, culturally appropriate for them. I
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: just found that very interesting that that was of such
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: a concern because it's you know, you can't give them
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: the technology that you have because at that point, I
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: guess imperialism or something along those lines.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: Well, and it's just it's also just very interesting that
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: they talk about this, you know, community skills that women
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: learn via working with them. That is literally the justification
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: on the previous page that they used to say washing
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: machines oppressed women. Like how technology washing machines came along
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: and oppressed women. Let's go, I'll just read it. It's
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: remained a problem for many feminists. The women have chosen,
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: for example, the by washing machines for individual family use
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: rather than to wash clothes, and communal facilities such as
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: lawn dretts in theory, the law could reduce women's isolation
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: and contribute to those neighborhood support networks that feminism has
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: complained have been lost in modern individualized capitalism. So men
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: invented washing machines because capitalism needed to isolate women so
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: that they couldn't have their class consciousness. It wasn't actually
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: about time and labor saving. It was about it was
• 37:21
  Speaker 5: about isolating them to be good little individualist, fatimized individualist consumers.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is uh, this is some serious paranoid personality
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: disordered thinking that has become somehow i scientific uh something
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: with scientific credibility, as I'm pretty sure that this is
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: the absolute stupidest way you could interpret men inventing laundry machines,
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: Like this is like if you attempted to, if you
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: were like, okay, how can I how can I create
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: an explanation that is so divorced from reality it it
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: has absolutely no coherent, logical or operative content. This would
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: be that statement. This is just this is madness in
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: scholar speak, scholaroid speak, Like all right, anyway, So that
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: so we're now we're at this situation where apparently if
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: we go in and we help people in repressed or
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: economically or technologically repressed reason regions, then that's imperialism.
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: Okay, now, it's just they just have to take into
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: account what is culturally appropriate for them, which has a
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: whole bunch of incredibly like racist stuff baked into it
• 38:52
  Speaker 5: where you're like, well, you know you are the low
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: IQ darkies. Can we really trust you with this high
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: level of technology? Like if you want to read it
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: like that, then.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: It's available to you.
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely. It's one of those things you can read
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: so much of this like leftist theory and just well it's.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: It's like these women are inserting themselves in the process
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: and saying, well, you can't possibly understand the needs of
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: the vulnerable people because those people are like infants, and
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: women naturally take care of infants. So we need to
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: be in this process, and we also need to make
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: money with our advocacy of how you are to approach helping.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: You know, a man would just go in look at
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: the environment and say, okay, well, these are some interventions
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: that would make your lives easier and things that you
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: control with the technology as you have that you have
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: at hand. I've actually seen initiatives by men who are
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: that they're exactly this. They create things that like technology
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: that uses the available materials in a region and improves
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: people's lives. But that's not that's not what. This is
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: not acceptable. These women have to get in there and
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: be advocates for you know, the dark people who who
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: don't understand and can't can't actually be relied upon to
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: do this stuff for themselves. They have to get in there,
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: and they have to make million dollar salaries for their
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: advocacy so that nobody is oppressed. It's madness, but I
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: guess it does have a point. And the point is
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: that these women want to get money and clout.
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: While being seen as being the compassionate people while they
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: declare that everyone else is more stupid than they are.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: So now, any man who wants to just go in
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: and say, okay, let's we're going to use the resources
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: you have at hand to improve your standard of living
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: in a way that you can control all maintained, fix
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: and develop more of he has to go through these women,
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: these compassion middle middle women, the middle women of compassion.
• 41:16
  Speaker 5: If you teach them how instead of being a completely
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: open community, if you teach them how they can shape
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: the clay and the straw into these blocks, these adobe blocks,
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: and they can use them to build walls around them.
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: If you do that, is it really culturally sensitive to
• 41:35
  Speaker 5: them because you will be teaching them to divide their
• 41:39
  Speaker 5: own community between with walls in between them. Have you
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: considered the culture of those people and what you will
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: do if you teach them how to put a roof
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: over their heads. I'm very empathetic.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: Give me money, Give me money, or you're going to
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: be doing bad men. It's almost like men respond to
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: that really well. For some reason, that's the entire feminist deck.
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: You got to give feminist money, men, or you're going
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: to be doing something mean and bad and not good.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: And men seem to respond to that for some reason.
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: No idea why anyway, you know, Yeah, it's exactly that
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: they need to They need to have the money to
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: write an entire relational web analysis of how one dude
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: helping these people create a better rocket stuff is oppression
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: and has to be culturally sensitive and and justifies why
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: the UN gives her a gigantic salary for all of
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: these investigations and she probably doesn't even ever meet the
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: people she's investigating.
• 42:52
  Speaker 5: It grows out of the hilariousness of we can't trust
• 42:55
  Speaker 5: dark people with high levels of technology because they're dumb
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: and how and how horror movement has a really strong
• 43:02
  Speaker 5: history of eugenics. Please stop looking behind this curtain and
• 43:05
  Speaker 5: asking questions.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: Well, eugenics is also like it is relational modality thinking
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: it is.
• 43:12
  Speaker 5: I mean, they're not wrong in some of what they say.
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: It's like, yeah, have you ever tried to give like
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: people out in the middle of fuck nowhere Africa are
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: sand timer so that they know how long they have
• 43:25
  Speaker 5: to boil the water force so they don't shit themselves
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: to death twenty four hours later. Well, as it turns
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: out when you return a few months later, because the
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: bottle is you know, you put sand in the bottle
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: and it drains. Well, as it turns out six months later,
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: what they've done is just cut the bottom off the
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: bottle and they throw a handful of sand through this
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: ring of plastic. Because the timer was magic, wasn't It
• 43:47
  Speaker 5: wasn't the time that it was boiling that was doing something.
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: It was a magic process.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: M yeah, that can I mean, well, the thing is
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: that there's a lot of a lot of cumulative knowledge
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: to get where we are. But On the other hand,
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: you know, tribal people can actually manage human transitions like marriage,
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: pair bonding, that the transition that men go through when
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: they become fathers. They actually know how to manage those things,
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: and we have absolutely no clue we are and on
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: that I will stand up for tribal people. On the
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: level of managing the relationships like the biological relationships between
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: human beings, they are far ahead of us because they
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: don't do things like what the Navy is doing and
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: putting women into a pair bonding pressure cooker and then
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: just being looking yeah, doing the shock Pikachu face when
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: pregnancies result. Anyway, let's keep going.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna play more of the video.
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: Then clearly it was impossible to teach like that.
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: And I would like to say that the birth, the crash,
• 44:54
  Speaker 6: the birthplace of the cyborg was there for me, even
• 44:58
  Speaker 6: though it came to fruition a little bit later.
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: Now, mind you, cqbe Die has not disappeared.
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: Look for example, there at that magazine, a contemporary magazine,
• 45:09
  Speaker 6: ccube Die magazine that is advertising in this issue a video.
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: Game where you can play the Vietnam War.
• 45:18
  Speaker 6: You can play the Electronal Electronic Battlefield as a thankfully
• 45:22
  Speaker 6: not very popular video game in that maga.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Thankfully, Oh gosh, these people are not anti war. I
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: don't see what the game is. Oh, Firebase Vietnam. I
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: guess I'll have to look that up really quick. All right,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: let me let me go back to the Time.
• 45:37
  Speaker 6: Code, a contemporary magazine Ccube Die magazine that is advertising
• 45:43
  Speaker 6: in this issue a video game where.
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: You can play the Vietnam War.
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: You can play the electronal Electronic Battlefield as a thankfully
• 45:53
  Speaker 6: not very popular video game in that magazine. Or you
• 45:58
  Speaker 6: could look at the way drones war Drones for war
• 46:02
  Speaker 6: necessary though they may be, nonetheless, watch the devastation that
• 46:06
  Speaker 6: war drones are reeking in Ukraine and elsewhere, the way
• 46:12
  Speaker 6: that the cyborg drones are swamping in all sorts of ways,
• 46:16
  Speaker 6: the more liberatory potential of drones, for example, for ecological
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: restoration project.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Let me pause this for a second. She's she's making
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: a comparison for like drones used during wartime versus drones
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: that could be doing other things like delivering Amazon packages.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: But isn't it interesting though, that if we didn't have drones,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean there wouldn't still be war, because there
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: always has been and there always will be. But also
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: it would we would just be throwing men into the
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: meat griner instead of drones.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: So is that preferable for her?
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Whild she rather men were dying, And well, I don't
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: want to get like too much digressing, but I'll just
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: say that commis generally don't like Vietnam. But that doesn't
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: mean they're against war. It is against war against communist countries.
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: But anyway, think she would care about she would care
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: in the abstract sense about the meat grinder. But really
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: this is just the typical hippy dippy bollocks like she
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: was doing last time, where it's it's the sort of
• 47:22
  Speaker 5: things that these people do. It's like, oh, look at
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: all the technology that we put into war and killing
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: each other. Couldn't we just use all of this stuff
• 47:30
  Speaker 5: for peace that well, yeah, we do. We do that
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: all the time. It just so happens that, as it
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: turns out, existential threat to your existence is kind of motivating. Yeah,
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry, that's just the case. Like, if people are
• 47:48
  Speaker 5: threatening to blodging you to death with a stick, you
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: have a very strong incentive to learn how to make
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: a bigger stick, or learn how to sharpen your stick
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: and throw it so they can't get near you.
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: Thus the search for the very best stick. Okay, yep,
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: the quest for the very best stick.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: And then that's every child's stream. Boy, that is, look at.
• 48:17
  Speaker 6: The the kind of technology necessary for AI or more
• 48:22
  Speaker 6: narrow I don't know if it's broader or narrower for chatbots.
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: And look at what happens to the land when the
• 48:30
  Speaker 6: when the data centers are built, and the kind of
• 48:33
  Speaker 6: energy demands. Look at the look at the uh sterilization
• 48:38
  Speaker 6: of the land, look at the removal of life and
• 48:42
  Speaker 6: death of ongoingness through the building of these massive energy
• 48:46
  Speaker 6: plants that are necessary for the running of contemporary cyborg life.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: But okay, well all right, lady, how do you how
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: do you think you like? These l l ms are
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: the only way you can ever anything approaching a reship
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: with computers. Somewhere, somehow, a bunch of computer scientists figured
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: that people having relationships with computers like that are really
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: what Karen, you know, lam is really characterized. It's like
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: a verbal relationship was a good thing, and they did it.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: And now you're like, look at the environmental devastation of
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: this thing that we wanted. Yeah, welcome to the West.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: Women want something, it results in environmental devastation, and then
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: men get blamed. Okay, I mean, I'm not sure that
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: there's like a much a direct correlation between AI research
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: and people like this, although I feel like a lot
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: of what I'm hearing from AI is very anti human,
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: and this is a very anti human ideology, even though
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: she pretends like it's compassionate and non hire art goal
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: and cooperative. As long as we all hate men, you know,
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: as long as we all hate the correct people we are,
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: not necessarily men, but men who are masculine and live
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: in the way that they think as opposed to just
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: constantly disavowing that and becoming feminine and recognizing that women
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: are our men are failed women, you know. So it's
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: it's it's a very anti human and that I think
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: the whole desire to replace humans with stochastic spreadsheets and
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: robots sort of comes out of that same kind of
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: anti human rhetoric that developed the idea of patriarchy and
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: men oppressed women through through violence.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: So okay, but she's pro planets, you see, because she's
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: against the data set or at least criticizing the existence
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: of data centers because they are sterilizing the planet. The
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: planet's not going to be the planet's birth rates are
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: going to drop and plummet unless we do something about it.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: We gotta save the planet. Fuck the humans. We gotta
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: save the planet, because if we don't save the planet, Allison,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: then the planet might kill the humans.
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: M I mean that's I mean, that's about the only
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: fair part of that.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: No, I'm being sarcastic. She doesn't want she's anti life,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: she's anti human, but pro planet because but but her
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: argument for being pro planet is that it may harm humans,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: which doesn't make sense because in her own like ideology,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: humans are not that important, at least not humans, as
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: she disagrees with.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: No, I understand that. I'm just saying that. I'm sorry,
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: I'm doing the autistic thing. I'm like, oh, well, that's
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: a that that that pattern matches to something.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you're applying logic to people who don't care
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: about logic. So okay, So I got to sue a
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: rumble Rand from Nova Pan twenty one, and he gives
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: a dollar and says, imagine a video game that accurately
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: simulated feminist thinking into society using only their approved frameworks
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: and watch them act like Patrick when he insists that's
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: not my wallet. God, that sounds like a nightmare scenario.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: That would a game that simulated feminist thinking would be
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Survival Horror. Anybody whoever worked on one of the Silent
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Hill games, get right on that, please. Okay, but anyway,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: or like, you know whatever, the most scary shit out
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: there is, all right, so let me look at where
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: I'm at the time code. So, yeah, she's trying to
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: make the case that basically, like the current technological path
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: we're on, it seems is the wrong one because like
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: it's the wrong kind of cyborgs because it's destroying the
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: earth and it's patriarchal and capitalism and all of the buzzwords.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: So maybe she's going to like propose, you know, something better,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: because you know, we know these people, they always have
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: solutions in mind.
• 53:04
  Speaker 5: I'm going to hit X to doubt, and I have
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: a few things I have to say. Yeah, there is
• 53:09
  Speaker 5: some less serious because of course, first of all, you
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: see this a lot with leftists in general. They like
• 53:17
  Speaker 5: to talk about how amazing technology is and how technology,
• 53:21
  Speaker 5: you know, we can have our fifteen minute cities. Everything
• 53:23
  Speaker 5: is within walking distance of you because public transport is
• 53:27
  Speaker 5: so amazing, and everything is so decentralized and everywhere, and
• 53:30
  Speaker 5: all of this stuff and we'll have infinite energy because
• 53:33
  Speaker 5: you know, solar panels and winter by and small this stuff.
• 53:36
  Speaker 5: And as soon as you show them the how you
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: make that happen, well, let's go and look at the
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: colbalt mine. Let's look at the lithium mine. And suddenly
• 53:47
  Speaker 5: they start getting very outraged and very angry at you.
• 53:50
  Speaker 5: It's like, I'm sorry, but we live in a material reality.
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: We are not, in fact, wivily wobbly creatures of light.
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: If you want something here, it has to come from
• 54:01
  Speaker 5: somewhere somehow, like you cannot avoid this's that's just part
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: of nature. You want your you know, really cool, even
• 54:12
  Speaker 5: like super environmentally friendly stuff like solar panels. Okay, you
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: have to look at the lithium and the coldbal minds
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: like you want to have all of these cool we
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: can just have everything can just have batteries in it,
• 54:24
  Speaker 5: and everything can be rechargeable. That has to come from somewhere.
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: You can't hide the environmental impact that is necessary for
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: these things to exist. But these people will want the
• 54:37
  Speaker 5: thing to exist while complaining about that necessary. And I
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: think I've said this before, it's if you wanted like
• 54:46
  Speaker 5: people like this, I'm just going to broad broadly stated
• 54:49
  Speaker 5: to women, like if you want to give them like
• 54:53
  Speaker 5: all of the things that they want, unless you're planning
• 54:55
  Speaker 5: to like space, lasso every planet in our solar system
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: and congerline them behind the Earth so that you can
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: just mine all of them, even though it's not going
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: to be enough for people like this.
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I've said that if men actually were able
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: to live up to the baseline income standards, like if
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: they if all the men right now we're able to
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: suddenly increase their income to the point where the average
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: woman would be willing to marry them. We need four
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: more earths to sustain the necessary materials for those incomes
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: to buy stuff, because that income isn't just an income,
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: it's material goods that the income can access, and we
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: need four more earths. So literally, women's expectations of men
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: are a ecological catastrophe. But you know, we can't we
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: can't we can't criticize women, can't blame them, we can't
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: question what they want. We have to just accommodate even
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: if it does destroy the Earth, and that's the ecological
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: catastroph I'm willing to acknowledge. But yeah, so there's something
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: else I was going to say, but it seems to
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: have slipped my mind. I apologize, guys.
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: That's okay. For once, the things I'm going to say
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: have stayed in mind, so I'm going to keep going. Secondly,
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: you talk about like the anti human thing, the anti
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: male part of this. Yes, remember Gaiah God is actually
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: a woman. The pleroma, which overflowed from that is the demioge,
• 56:32
  Speaker 5: which is the masculine form of creation. It ordered materialistic existence.
• 56:36
  Speaker 5: We have to destroy that. Never forget. I'm going to
• 56:39
  Speaker 5: keep bringing that up every single time because it's relevant.
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: It's the underlying cause of this. And thirdly, and finally,
• 56:47
  Speaker 5: because it was just mentioned, Yes, I am in fact
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: in favor of planetary birth rates. We need more planets
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: in our Solar system, and I'm pretty sure that the
• 56:58
  Speaker 5: only way planets can still be born is via mitosis.
• 57:03
  Speaker 5: We have to split them. So I think what we
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: need to do is a row of nukes all around
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: the equator and we can just split the Earth into two,
• 57:13
  Speaker 5: and then that will solve the birth the planetary birth
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: rate problem of our solar system. We will finally have
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: a second planetary body around our solar system. We've got
• 57:22
  Speaker 5: to replace Pluto somehow.
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: Ah.
• 57:27
  Speaker 5: I will never forgive them for taking away Pluto's status planet.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: Never ah that Okay, I remember now what I was
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: going to say. This reminds me of The Gate to
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: Women's Country, which is as a book that one of
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: our patrons asked me to do a report on or
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: an investigation on, and it basically is a world, a
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: feminist world that features sex segregation. The men are in
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: these kind of warrior bands, but everything is controlled by
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: the secret cabal of eugenicist feminists, and they're completely They
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: control everybody's reproduction, they control the sex segregation. They kick
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: the boys out at fourteen to go live with the warriors.
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: And the warrior bands are just like the feminist stereotype
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: of men. All they do is like rape and kill things.
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: And but what was really interesting is when you think
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: about the world building. This is a community of all women,
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: and there's no explanation where the electricity comes from, where
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: the glass for hypodermic needles that enable their reproductive control
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: comes from you know where. Then the advance like smithing
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: comes from for their weapons. None of this is explained.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: And you know why, it's because she doesn't even know
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: that this needs an explanation. It's just for for these women,
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: all of this stuff just appears as if by magic,
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: and so all they have to do is make mouth
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: noises and trade little symbolic ritual objects and they get things.
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: And that's the depth of their knowledge of the world.
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: And what's terrifying is that we have given people like
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: this the ability to make policy and determine where resources go.
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: God speed to us, God help us. All all right,
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: let's sorry, go on, Brian.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: All right, well, Tiler, are you done? Should I play more?
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: Or yeah?
• 59:40
  Speaker 5: That was a level?
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: All right, all right, all right, twenty six Mostly it
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: was just fair enough.
• 59:48
  Speaker 5: Was the only reason I'm here, It's the only reason
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: I have a show up on HBO. So that is
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: my ten pole issue in my life, the lost ten
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: years of all of this.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can relate me tludo a planet again.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 6: Okay, Yeah, specifically in relationship to the student demonstrations in
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 6: Tiananmen Square, this is a young woman who was living
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 6: in Cambridge, Massachusetts at the time, whose parents were demonstrating
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 6: in Tiananmen Square, and Lindn titled this painting Cyborg watched
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 6: the skeletonization of her fingers on the keyboard, look at
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 6: the cosmological scientific diagrams behind her.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: So basically there's a painting and she's using the painting
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: to make her argument. The painting is the image in
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: the lower right corner, and lin.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: Painting is science. It is just as valid as the
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 5: data center.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, let me look this up. Sorry, I want to
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: look up this painting. It's called painting, it's just called cyborg.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: So I'm sure that a brave search is totally get.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: A narrow that down.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: Uh, I'll just say Vietnam. Maybe that'll help.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not helping. So she this is probably.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: Like a very little known what's done a harra away?
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'll just don a har away.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna say, I am deeply triggered by the skeletal
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 5: anatomy of that cat's feet and forums right.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I found it. It's uh, Lynn Randolph.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 5: She had to put it in there because you know,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 5: it's one of those indigenous things like you can tell
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: that's obviously what it's meant to be ye put that
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: in there because you know, of.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: Course, of course absolutely yes.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 5: As a statement being made here as well.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So let's see Donna Harroway a Cyborg Manifesto
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: Socialist Review. This image comes with her manifesto, or it's
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: mentioned in there short ongoing anthology that helped me understand
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: my cyborg nature. There are many texts where I found guidance,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: and in some cases I left them behind because my
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: identity and subjective awareness feels everything but static given values.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: I like to begin with the Cyborg Manifesto.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: Wow, this, oh my god, this is all so feminine.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: So Donna Harway presented her lecture two thousand and three
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: two thousand and four. Haraway is a prominent theorist of
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: the relationships between people and machines, and her work has
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: incited to debate in fields as varied as primatology, philosophy,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: and developmental biology. Haraway's The Cyborg Manifesto, first published in
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five, is now taught in undergraduate classes at
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: countless universities and has been reprinted or translated in numerous anthologies.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: And blah blah blah. So yeah, it's just like it's
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: just how does the painting make you feel that's basically
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: the whole.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: That's that's the message. Dark Kigi Mora sends us a
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: super chow and says for five dollars at TiAl deer
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: airis e R I s.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know what that means, but thank you for that.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 5: As far as I know. That's another planetary body the same,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 5: like similar to Pluto. Oh, I think if that's the
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 5: oneline is because it was like, if we consider Pluto,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 5: we have to make a bunch of the other ones
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 5: planets as well, because it's actually smaller than some of
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: the other ones. I think that's what. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 5: I might be misremembering something.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: Not one hundred, but I mean I'm open to I
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: don't care. We can to have a at one hundred
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: planets in a solar system. I don't care as long
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: as we acknowledge Pluto.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 5: I did find something very interesting that you said that
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 5: when you're talking about the decible thing, how widespread that
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 5: has been published and how widespread that's been taught and used.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 5: Just I always just like to highlight that for people,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 5: you know, when we talk about these people, when I
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 5: read from these textbooks, which I intentionally do because they're
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 5: used to teach people this stuff at the university level.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 5: You know, when all these people like to say that's
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: not real, that's not well. This is what these things
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 5: are teaching people. This dom a Harroway person. Her book
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 5: has been translated numerous times and is taught in like
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 5: thousands of universities. Like, if this isn't what this ideology is,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 5: then you should be standing on outside criticizing this, and
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 5: yet you're not. You're arguing with us and yelling at
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 5: us and saying you should stop criticizing. But apparently the
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: things we're criticizing aren't real, so it or it's the
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 5: wrong interpretation of it. And yet this supposed wrong interpretation
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 5: that you keep telling us that we've got is the
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: mainstream thing. This is the thing that it's being talked
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 5: to thousands of people, actually probably millions and people around
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 5: the world. So do with that what you will, I guess.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, ah.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: Okay, despair, gaze upon it and despair.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, let's keep going.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 6: Watch the skeletonization of her fingers on the keyboard. Look
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 6: at the cosmological scientific diagrams behind her, Look at the
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 6: spirit tiger around her shoulders, and think for just a
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 6: minute of all of the ways that contemporary cyborg worlds
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 6: are vital and are our responsibility. Think, for example, of
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 6: my student, my English student from there.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I'm gonna think about an invisible ghost
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 5: cap sitting on my back like it's a rash from
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 5: eld and Ring, and that's gonna make me think, God,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 5: damn it, I need to worship the omnis eya harder.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 5: It's basically what she's saying today. It's sure typical wibbly
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 5: wobbly hippipy books, but this is where we are. This
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 5: is science, all right.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: Let's keep going.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 6: Studying English with me as I study Spanish with her.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 6: Because of cyborg systems, because of internet systems, she is
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 6: able to take a sophisticated course from Mexico City for
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 6: teaching Spanish as a second language, so that she can
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 6: develop a career for herself that doesn't condemn her to
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 6: a lifetime of injury producing work in the hospitality.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: Industry, cleaning rooms for tourists. Think also of the ways that.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: Happens so she she learned a second language so that
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: she can do a job in an environment where a
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: second language will be helpful. Is that? Am I not?
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: Am I not hearing that?
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: Shush with your patriarchy thinking.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just curious.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: All right, everything is, Everything has relational meaning, Brian. We
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: got to find it, We got to point it all out,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: all of it.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 4: Right now.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 6: Are collecting and saving websites and saving data from the
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 6: fascis as the Trump regene takes down data and websites,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 6: for example in relation to climate change and biodiversity and
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 6: all sorts of other things.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: Okay, right here, I want to point something out. Okay,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: all right, ESG and DEI initiatives caused I don't have
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: an exact count, but the BP oil disaster in the
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: golf however, many barrels of oil got poured into the
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: Gulf of Mexico. That was because the corporate corporate bean
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: counters were prioritizing green boondoggles and green branding over maintaining
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: systems and safety standards, and I mean real safety standards,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: like does the machinery work? Are we putting little plastic
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: buckets under the oil pans of cars in the parking lot?
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: Not performance safety, real safety. So they ESG is actually
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: responsible for ecological disaster. So the same people are talking
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: about all the environment are actually promoting attitudes that increase
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: the likelihood that we're all going to be dealing with
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: real ecological disasters because they're causing companies to take their
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: attention away from the fact that they're dealing with things
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: like pressurized oil and maybe they should be focusing their
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: financial and corporate structure are making sure that that doesn't
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: spray everywhere, rather than a brand that looks really green
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: and investments into green technology that don't work. Because BP
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: actually was cutting funds to one of their safety and
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: maintenance departments. They completely gutted it and it was only
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: like a three million dollar department. They gutted it down
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: to under a one million. Meanwhile, they're spending one point
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: five billion on green investments that go nowhere, and two
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: hundred million on green logos, and then they dump millions
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: of barrels of oil into the Gulf, destroy a whole
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: bunch of wildlife, kill a bunch of men. Oh, and
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: they don't they don't stop and say, wait a second,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: maybe our priorities are fucked up. If we're an oil company,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: maybe we should make sure that our environmental impact is minimized.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: We aren't killing people, we weren't dumping oil into body
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: giant bodies of water and killing wildlife. Maybe we should
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: keep we should be investing in making sure that this
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: process is as safe as possible. No, they're investing in
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: non sense sense that does nothing except make them look
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: good in the relational web. Meanwhile, they're they're guaranteeing ecological
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: catastrophes because of their focus. That's what this woman is presenting.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: That's what this woman is justifying, guys, right, And this
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: problem that happened in a deep water horizon, there were
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: the similar problems in other BP installations that were killing men,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: but nobody cared because it wasn't wildlife, didn't nobody cared
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: until a bunch of freaking water fowl died, which you know,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: it is a tragedy, but it is not the men.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, when at what point do we start to
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: recognize that this stuff is unsafe and it's going to
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: cause an ecological catastrophe, But based on the fact that
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: it's killing the men working on the machinery, right, But this,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: this woman is promoting these attitudes that lead to men
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: dying an ecological catastrophe because For her, it's not about
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: the nail. It's about the presentation that you care about
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: the environment, not that you actually do anything. And make
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: sure that your processes if you're a if you're a
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: fossil fuel company, that your processes are safe, and try
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: to make sure they don't impact the environment. That's fine,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: that's sensible, right, maintain the equipment. No, she says, no,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: you should be focusing on not on that, not on
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: your product and your the production of your product, making
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: sure that's safe and environmentally responsible. You should be focusing
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: on this other stuff. Makes no, And again that that's
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: where her attitude meets destruction and she probably doesn't even
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: recognize that. Well, of course she doesn't because she can't
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: recognize how things have consequences. Everything is all just nodes
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: and webs Okay, so I apologize, guys, this has been
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: on my mind.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 5: Why would we both a fund a safety initiatives and
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 5: safety equipment for all of our oil rigs and our
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 5: minds and all that stuff. Why would we do that
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 5: when instead we can spend two hundred million on hiring
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 5: a few thousand women to have zoom calls with each other,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 5: you know, using a bunch of electricity really pointlessly for
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 5: no particular reason. Because that way we can say, we
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 5: have this percentage number of women in our company, and
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 5: yet Blackrock will just give us some money for no
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 5: apparent reason. Yeah, you know, that's definitely not going to
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: impact industries in any way at all. It still annoys
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 5: me that people always like, oh, yes, gus conspiracy theories
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 5: that you can literally go on to like black Rock's
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 5: website and select esg funds that you can buy shares in,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 5: like that's available on their website. You can do it,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 5: And I find it really weird that there are people
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 5: out there who will call us a conspiracy theories. Hang on,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 5: are you seriously testing that investment firms investing in things
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 5: is a conspiracy theory? What do you think these organizations
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 5: do exactly? What do you think an investment firm? Dodds.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's annoying to say.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: Just so you guys know, I'm gonna be a fk
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: for a bit. I'm dealing with.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: Doggo Okay, I'm gonna keep going.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, talking about like, oh, the censorship of the forests. Apparently,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 5: I guess they stand between the threest and the fiveists,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 5: I guess, But yeah, oh, the censorship of them around
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 5: the environmental stuff. Literally, anytime you mentioned climate change or
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 5: anything like that, what is the first thing you see
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 5: on the top of your Google searches in the box
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 5: below the video on YouTube? Check Wikipedia for the climate
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 5: change thing. Oh, this is a right that there is
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 5: a right wing conspiracy theory that this isn't happening, but
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 5: it very much is. And this is why you need
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 5: to give all of your property over to Black Rock
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 5: so that they can size down your house to make
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 5: sure it's appropriate for you, and all of these other
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 5: things which are obviously just conspiracy theories. Like, no, I'm sorry,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: these things are not being suppressed, like they're just not.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 5: These are the most funded positions that you can find
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 5: in just anywhere. I am sorry. Just the idea that
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 5: this is in any way being suppressed is absurd, of course,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 5: Like how many millions or billions there Places like the
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 5: World Economic Forum and the United Nations spend every year
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 5: flying thousands of private jets to their environmental meetings. Yeah,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 5: where is the suppression of that.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: It's because it hasn't become absolute everywhere all at once,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: so they might it must be suppressed, like if it isn't.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: Obviously it's propped up as the mainstream, but it's not.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: Everyone hasn't adopted it. We haven't all internalized it, we
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: haven't all converted. So obviously it's being suppressed because it's
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: such a good idea. Then why wouldn't if only people
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: knew how good this idea was and how much better
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: it would make them as people to adopt it. Because
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: they don't, it's got to be because it's still being
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: held back somehow.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 7: So duh anyway, and this is why we have to
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 7: do all of this stuff with this breakneck speed, because
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 7: someone decided we have to do all of this by
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 7: twenty thirty because.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 5: All of the people who are coming up with these
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 5: ideas are all starting to get on in years and
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 5: they really need to be able to sit in the
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 5: shade of that tree. They really they are not going
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 5: to allow a future generation to harvest that benefit node.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 5: They have to see it while they're still here.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: M hm. And they also probably think that they're the
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: only ones that could make it happen, and if it
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: While they're alive, then it won't happen.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: The dream will die with them, because you see they're
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: the only people qualified to accomplish the goal. And everyone else,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: the young especially, they're just tools. And if there's no
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: one to operate the tools, then they can't they can't
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: get across that finish line. So that's why everything is
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: ramping up, you know, as these people get are getting
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: on in years. But anyway, and if some.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 5: Of those tools break and need to be disposed off,
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 5: so be it. Yeah, that's right, millions of tools have
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 5: to be disposed of.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, okay, continuing on.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 6: Activists who are saving the data and saving the websites
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 6: or archiving and maintaining the websites that are critical to
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 6: the kinds of futures and presence that we need. Think
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 6: all and on such things are as signal chat to
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 6: maintain our own security and our own activism relatively secret
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 6: from the surveillance apparatuses that are deployed against us.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 4: All.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 6: Think of the distributed energy systems that we all need,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 6: and then communications systems that are especially crucial for isolated
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 6: people or for differently abled people. And remember that it
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 6: is an ongoing struggle to hold on, to inhabit and
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 6: to rework.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 4: The worlds of cyborgs for earthly flourishing.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 5: What all of these things are essential that look at
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 5: how they're destroying the environment, we need to change them
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 5: all so that they like, Okay, look, I very much
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 5: enjoy the concept of like solar punks of technology, minus
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 5: that rampant fucking and narco communism that recks it anytime
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 5: they do anything, because they shit up every single space
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 5: that they go to. I very much like the idea that,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 5: you know, you can have everything sort of localize and
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 5: have a bunch of like manufacturing, ability and energy storage
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 5: and all this stuff in sort of your immediate pacinity.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 5: That's all very cool. You can't do it with the
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 5: level of technology that we currently have people at this
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 5: who seem to think that we can. It's not gonna happen.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 5: Like you, you're not going to have this level of
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 5: environmental integration into the everyday It's just not going to happen.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 5: We're not there yet. You can't do it. Like I
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 5: know that these people like to imagine that those sort
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 5: of very green garden style cities with three to five
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 5: story tall buildings. Everything is solar panels.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 8: And greens everywhere, and there's robe and everything is free
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 8: and provide for you like you can't do this, Like
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 8: there's a reason that this stuff is a utopian vision.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 5: It's because you can't do it, like until we I
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 5: don't even know. You have to develop some sort of
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 5: incredibly small, ultra dense energy output to be able to
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 5: do it. But until we're able to do that, you
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 5: have to be able to mine things. You have to
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 5: have large energy production facilities. They have to be huddled
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 5: together like it. It's also like when you get the
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 5: soul up on people and they're like, oh, community garden
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 5: next to a block of flats, and I'm just like, okay, yes,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 5: community garden next to a block of flats, that's wonderful.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 5: How much land do you think it takes to feed
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 5: a block of flats full of people? You've got a
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 5: building full of two hundred people. What do you really
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 5: think You're like, fifty meter square community garden is going
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 5: to feed that?
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I know it's completely naive. No, no, it doesn't.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: And well, personally I'm not for the solar. I'm for
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: the nuclear I don't know if Yeah, I'm all for
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: nuclear power. But these people they don't really want to
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: solve that problem though. That's why they're like they they
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: don't like that all the land that gets used up
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: for data centers. But they they might want solar panels
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: and like wind turbines. Doesn't that take up a lot
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: of space too, isn't that? And a lot of that
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: stuff comes from fossil fuels anyway. And then besides that,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: where do all of the raw materials come from?
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: Who gets them? Lady?
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: Who's the one that goes into these places and gets
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: these raw materials? These rare minerals. How do you acquire
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: these things? Who does it?
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: You're not doing it?
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, it's in the back, exactly, it's in
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: the back.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 5: I just love these like you can get these small
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 5: like the modular reactors, they're really cool. They it's just
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 5: a steam turbine. That's all nuclear power is. I do
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 5: love it when you get to this little we've made
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 5: all of these computer controlled parabolic mirrors that capture the
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 5: sun and point it on this little bit of water
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 5: here to boil it and turn a steam turb and
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 5: I'm just like, you could just do you could just
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 5: do that with a single nuclear rod and water. I
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 5: genuinely think that a bunch of these people don't know
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 5: how nuclear power works. It's literally just high powered radiation
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 5: heating water to generate steam. That's it. That's It's also
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 5: like when these people complain about like ooh, the data
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 5: centers and all the water they use. The water doesn't
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 5: vanish like it goes in cold. It's used to cool
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 5: something in this case computer chips, because it passes over
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 5: it passes through the pipe system like the same way
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 5: if you've got like a liquid cold PC, similar principles.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 5: It through there, then comes out the other end a
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 5: little bit warm, where it goes into a big lake
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 5: where it cools down again and then it returns to
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 5: the ocean or just sinks very slowly through the ground
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 5: to return to the water tables. I legit do not
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 5: understand the objections to these people are just like, look,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 5: it's using all of this. It's water doesn't vanish when
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 5: you use it. It's pretty much the definition of a
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 5: closed cycle. Yeah, Like the best you can argue for
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 5: is where you put things like the intake and outtake lakes,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 5: where you put things like dams, those can sometimes have
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 5: ecological impacts. I mean, there was a really big example
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 5: of what I can't remember which country is off the top.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: Of my head.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 5: I think Egypt, but I don't quote me on that,
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 5: where a big dam was put in and because of
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 5: the however many millions of tons of water it backed up,
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 5: it actually started causing seismic activity because of just the
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 5: weight of all of that water in that area. We
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 5: can avoid stuff like that. Now, that's as close as
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 5: I can get to the sorts of objections that people
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 5: have about things like, oh, the water for a nuclear
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 5: and the water for data centers. But again, we have
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 5: to put this sort of stuff somewhere. And here's the
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 5: other thing. If you put these data centers and all
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 5: and these nuclear things out in the fucking deserts of
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 5: Middle America, and you happen to be able to like
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 5: divert some rivers into some areas, you could make some
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 5: really lovely green wetlands in something that is otherwise a
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 5: fucking desert by doing that, like you literally do have
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 5: these outlets for centers like this where life does flourish
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 5: because it basically turns into a wetland where that warm
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 5: water comes out, cools down and returns to the to
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 5: the water table.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: Okay, so I just wanted to touch base on do
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: you have to are you have a time limit here, Brian, Yeah, I.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: Do like a guys like fifteen minutes, so I mean
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: we're we're good. I got like fifteen minutes.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's you might want to get to
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: the feminist cyborg manifesto?
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: Are we going to read through what we.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: Want to do? Okay, there's just this is.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: You know where this is the last time code here,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: so I can just read it and then we can
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: we can look at the paperwork. I guess so dark
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: KICKI Mora gives us five dollars super Child, thank you,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: and says, if they are already running, I think it
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: would be a mistake to shut them down and turn
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: to coal Greta Thunberg.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: He also said another one through. I don't know if
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 3: you read it.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: I read it already. It was about the other moon
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: or whatever.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: Er it's yeah, all right, so let me just finish
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: this time code off really quick.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 4: Okay, okay, So cyborgs are in my litter.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 6: Next in my litter is the whole category of companion species.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 6: Now mind you command companion species in Latin comes from
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 6: kum ponas with bread commensals at table.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: Toget I just real quick, this woman is saying really
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: dumb things with lots of really big words. She doesn't
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: need to explain to us the roots meanings of all
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: of the words, but she really wants to dazzle the
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: people watching this. But anyway, okay, but it's not table,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: it's with bread.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 5: Therefore, what I'm about to say is very profound.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, preparing yourself for the profundity of this statement.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 5: This woman, she really is my favorite grandiloquent syscripidalian sophomaniac.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 5: Like three people watching this who have just gone yes
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 5: because they understood what that meant.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 4: Okay, perhaps or not altogether clear.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 6: Who eats whom in various of the worlds that I
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 6: care about, But basically I insist, just as situated knowledge
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 6: is does not mean local, and it does not mean
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 6: perspective companion species does not mean pets.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 4: Which isn't to say that pets isn't.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 6: An honorable job for the other entities who live with us,
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 6: be they plant or animal. Animals who are pets have
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 6: a difficult job, in no small part because members of
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 6: our species are especially bad at learning what they care
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 6: about as opposed to what we want.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: Ooh gosh, Okay, So basically, all of that was to say,
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: pets have a complict relationship with humans and machines in
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: a posthumanist framework, which is what she is laying out.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: So that's all. That's that's it, that's that's her. Pets
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: and pets have a hard job. Did you know that
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: pets have it so hard?
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: Like Jojo?
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: Right now he is sleeping and it is a rough sleep.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, I can tell that despite he's laying very still,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: he is really struggling with it.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 5: So, okay, is the most difficult job in the world.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: After being a woman, of course. Yeah, I just turned
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: it on. I turned it off earlier because he stepped
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: away from his camera because he wanted to be by me.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: But now he's he wants to take a nap, so
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: I turned the camera.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately, moves too much for you to do.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: Apparently, plants also have it really tough because humans are
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: bad to them, So oh they is?
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: What about the ones we eat? Is that also bad?
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 3: Yes? That's that's doubly bad.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, Is this just like another way of advocating for
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: the workers? Is like a new level of worker? The pet?
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 8: Is?
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: She is she calling for redistribution?
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 3: Is once again? Okay, let me, let me finish. Yeah,
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 3: redistribution to the pets. The pets should seize the means
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 3: of kibble, the means the pets should seize the means
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 3: of opening cans. But what's really funny is these people
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 3: don't care about workers either. If they did, they'd listened
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 3: to them about the conditions that they work in. I mean,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: even if you don't like, uh, you know, labor unions,
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: and I'm not gonna don't, I'm like, but at the
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 3: very least advocate to listening to the men who are
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: working in these machines about the state of the machines
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 3: and the equipment, you know, would be good. But these
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 3: these people don't even advocate for that. They get into
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 3: these these workplaces and they force these men to do
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 3: safety theater right, and they and they create the initiatives
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 3: that actually stigmatize them talking out because they're white cis
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 3: hetmen mostly, or if they're minority men, they are of
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 3: course the white cis hetmen of whatever minority they are.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 3: So it's like, these people don't even advocate. I doubt
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 3: that she's really even advocating for pets. She just wants
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 3: to be seen to do so, Okay, I just I mean, ultimately.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: No, it's fine.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: Ultimately, I think this woman is just interpreting art and
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: using it to make like statements about, well, I have
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: an analogy of our society. Yeah, I'm done with the
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: time codes. Those are the most so we're done.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: Interesting is the word.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, this is the most.
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 5: Sperience the oldest hippie tippy. How many mushrooms did this
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 5: woman doing the sixties?
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's got to be a burnout, like totally.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. All right, so if we we still haven't gotten
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 3: to the actual cyber manifesto cyber thing that she wrote
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 3: on cyberfeminism. We just finished the time codes on that.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you guys want to do yet
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 3: another show on this, specifically her cyberfeminist man though, But
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 3: are you up til deer to actually get into that
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 3: this might.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: Be like the most interesting part possibly, Oh yeah.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 5: I think all of this is just an essential build
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 5: up to it mostly Okay.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 3: All right, So I do have an analysis based on
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 3: my framework of relational versus operative reading of her manifesto,
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 3: which I could put I could put to you guys
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 3: in the remaining moments since we've completed the request and
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 3: the time codes. So this is a cyber manifesto, completely
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 3: pretty sure it's from her. Let me just double check
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 3: to make sure it's going to take a moment uh
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: and uh, which is of course from the okay, just
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 3: let me double yep. Donna Hathaway a cyber warg manifesto science, technology,
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 3: and socialist feminism in the late twentieth century. So she
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 3: wrote this in the nineties, and its subheadings are a
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 3: ironic dream of a common language for woman in the
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: integrated circuit, fractured identities, the informatics of domination, the homework
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 3: economy outside a home, women in the integrated circuit, Oh,
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 3: cyborg cyborgs, a myth of political identity. These are the
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 3: subtopics of her a cyborg manifesto. And I like again,
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 3: I can I could do. I can read out my
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 3: analysis if you wish to listen to that just a second. Yeah,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 3: all right, So pulling pulling, I need pulling up things, Okay,
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 3: So essentially surprising no one. Her previous cyborg analysis that
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 3: predates this lecture is social relational web reading, so she's
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 3: a relational cognitive modality. She pretends to be like a
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 3: philosophical philosophical modality, which is like Anne Rand and Faust,
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 3: but she's not.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: She is.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 3: Everything relates back to herself, her web, and where she
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 3: is within the web. The manifesto looks like ideational modality
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 3: on first pass, and again that's Anne Rands. Everything in
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 3: her work goes back to her particular philosophical framework. Every
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 3: concrete thing, chip, fabrication, immunobiology, housework, economy, genetic engineering, third
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 3: world labor gets converted into a philosophical proposition. But if
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 3: you replace these philosophical propositions, you see that they ultimately
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 3: are just her signaling something in her relational web. If
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 3: you replace cyborg with any other boundary transgressing figure, if
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 3: you replace C three I with any other military information system,
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 3: replace the silicone chip with any other miniaturized technology, replace
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 3: immunobiology with any other science that destabilizes the self other boundaries.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 3: Everything relates back to her position in the social web.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 3: They are never dwelt on as their own kind of thing,
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 3: like a like, even because the thing with philosophy is
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 3: you take things, you operate them on them by your
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 3: philosophical principles, and you come to conclusions. Her conclusions are
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 3: always who am I? What am I broadcasting to the
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 3: social web, But how do I relate to everybody else
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 3: in that? Okay, So if you replace the specific mechanisms
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: of genetic engineering with any other biotechnology procedure that blurs
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 3: organism and machane, replace the specific economics of Silicon Valley
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 3: electronics assembly with any other export processing labor arrangement. Replace
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: the specific feminist feminist science fiction authors Russ Butler, Delaney
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 3: McIntyre with any other authors who write boundary trust guessing
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 3: bodies all past. No procedure in this test is cognitively
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: cognitively load bearing. The procedures are cited as evidence for
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 3: the proposition never dwelt On as op And ultimately that
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 3: proposition is I wish to be seen Donnahara Harroway wishes
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 3: to be seen, all right? So what is the actual
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 3: cognitive content? The text center of gravity is relational topographical.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 3: The entire essay is a mapping exercise. Who is allied
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 3: with whom? Who is excluded from which category? Who gets
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 3: to claim membership in which group? Which alliances are possible,
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 3: which groupings are oppressive? The fractured identity section is pure
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 3: web mapping tracking. How woman as a category excludes women
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 3: of color. How Marxist feminism and radical feminism each construct
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 3: their epistemologies to police group boundaries. How mckennon's theory erases
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 3: difference by totalizing. The key passage is Harroway's description of
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 3: her actual method. I prefer a network ideological image suggesting
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: the profusion of spaces and identities and permeability of boundaries
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 3: in the personal body. In the Poldy politic, networking is
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 3: both a feminist practice and a multinational corporate strategy. Weaving
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 3: is for oppositional cyborgs. Okay, that is a direct statement
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 3: of reading modality processing. So we're actually looking at schisms
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 3: between reading modality like fighting with each other, and she's
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 3: in a particular faction, and she's fighting the other factions.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 3: By simply saying, well, you are more patriarchal networking atomized,
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 3: you don't. You don't non hierarchy in this hierarchy to
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 3: be sufficiently elevated to our level of the hierarchy. That
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 3: is a direct read statement of reading modality processing. The
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 3: mind maps the web attracts who is positioned where it
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 3: reads boundaries as permeable or impermeable. The entire text is
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 3: organized around this operation scanning the well well this reading,
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 3: scanning the relational field, and mapping positions. The relational signaling
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 3: function is even more visible here than in the lecture.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 3: That's probably because the lecture is completely coherent. The manifesto
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 3: is explicitly a membership document and announces, here is who
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 3: we are, cyborgs. Here is who we are, not goddess worshippers,
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: orthodox Marxist McKennon style, radical feminists, humanists. Here are our allies.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 3: Women of color who you know, these are the women
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 3: of color, Like they're like the one of the wind
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 3: conditions for these these the civil hand Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, exactly.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 3: So in this kind of relational web civil war, there
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 3: are there are now it's trans women, let's be.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: Honest, immigrants, when we've moved away from immigrants, the illegal specifically.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: That's the that's the high.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 3: You can claim that your relational web includes these high
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 3: value nodes. You are superior to the other relational webs. Feminists,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 3: sci fi writers, anti colonials, theorists, theorists, those are those
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 3: are Donna Harroway's allies and her enemies. Totalitizing theories, origin myths,
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 3: human exceptionalism, and the informatics of domination. I wonder if
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 3: anybody who's engaging in any of the processes that she's
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 3: calling out even know what the fuck she's saying when
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 3: she calls them out. The ideational content, the actual philosophical
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 3: claims about nature, culture, organism, machine, self, other is the
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 3: currency used to perform these membership rituals. You demonstrate you
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 3: belong to the group by deploying the vocabulary correctly. You
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 3: demonstrate you understand the web by mapping it the way
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 3: the text maps it. The informatics of domination table is
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 3: the purest example. It doesn't analyze any of those transitions,
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 3: it lists them. The listing performs membership. I know enough
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 3: about each of these domains to name the transition. The
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 3: social reader recognizes this is web mapping. She sees the
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 3: whole field. The operative reader would want, would want any
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 3: one of those rows unpacked into an actual analysis of
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 3: how the transition works mechanistically. That never happens. The table
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 3: is a relational display, not an operative analysis. Sorry, I
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 3: should have given you a link so you could see
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 3: the table. Apologies, guys. Audience construction. I think this is
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 3: going to surprise nobody, But she is constructing her and
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 3: her manifesto for social readers exclusively. It's the same and
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 3: this is the same as the as the lecture. The
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 3: text is built for readers who find the naming, categorizing,
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 3: and web mapping satisfying as intellectual work in itself? Is
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 3: this really intellectual work? Though? An operative reader hits the
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 3: informatics of domination table and asks, actually, can you pull
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 3: that up? Brian? Do you have a whole link or
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 3: the informatting? Okay, all right, all right, sure, I'll give
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 3: you give me a moment here, guys, I should have
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 3: I should have coordinated a bit better with with Brian.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 3: It's it's the Cyborg manifest I can give you the
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 3: HTML as like a link. That it's not a link,
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 3: it'll be a file, says I don't have immediate access
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 3: into for the file for the Actually, you.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: Want me to just bring up the cyborg manifesto? What
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: the hell is all that?
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: Damn it? Oh, it's an h Just do a search
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 3: on a cyber manifesto.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: Us, all right?
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: Is that.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 3: I can't see?
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So I'm looking for like a chart or something.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the right one. I don't see any charts here.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: Maybe there are chapter.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 3: Well, good luck to that, Brian. I'll keep going, all.
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: Right, just keep going, I'll find something.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 3: An operative reader hits the informatics of domination table and
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 3: asks what specifically changed through what mechanism? With what measurable consequences?
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 3: The question is never answered for any row in the table.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 3: An operative reader hits the homework economy section, and that's
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 3: what are the actual numbers? What is the wage deferential?
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 3: What policy would change this? Those questions are gestured at,
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 3: but never resolved into operational specificity. The science fiction section
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 3: is diagnostic. Caraway summarizes six or seven science fiction authors
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 3: work for each she extracts the boundary transgression transgression proposition.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 3: She never engages with the narrative as narrative, no operative
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 3: through line, no analysis of what makes the work fiction
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 3: work as fiction. Each novel is cited for the proposition
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 3: it embodies. Butler's Dawn is about reproductive, linguistic and nuclear
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 3: politics in a mythic field so structured by late twentieth
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 3: century race and gender. What the fuck that is a
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 3: reading modality summary? What does this mean in the web?
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 3: Not what happens? And why does it matter? Comparison to
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 3: the lecture forty years later. The architecture is identical. The
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 3: vocabulary has shifted. Cyporg has become companions. Species has become
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 3: odd Kent socialist, feminist, multi species kinship. Informatics of domination
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 3: has become staying with the trouble. The cognitive processing is
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 3: the same, map, the relational web name, the membership categories
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 3: deploy ideational vocabulary as relational currency. The modality hasn't changed
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 3: in for decades. What changes which relational web is being
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 3: mapped and which membership symbol signals are being deployed. So
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 3: this is what she's paid for, guys, She's paid for
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 3: signaling in the relational web where she is in the
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 3: relational web and where everybody else is. That's what she's
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 3: been doing as a scientist for the last what fifty years.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 3: Like this is this is it, This is this is
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 3: what we pay for. To some level, we are all
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 3: paying taxes for this ship, and we're also paying in
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 3: terms of operational degradation. Because people like this get into
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 3: positions where they make policy policy like the ones that
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 3: preceded the BP deep Water Horizon disaster policy, where oh,
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 3: we're going to spend one point five billion dollars on
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 3: pointless green initiatives and branding instead of continuing to properly
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 3: fund safety and maintenance or even listen to the men
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 3: who are working on these machines. This is the rot.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 3: This is her rot that she is bringing everywhere she
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 3: goes and women like her and the men who are
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 3: also embedded in this social web of absolute bullshittering. The
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 3: actual operations don't matter, it's what they signal that matters. Well,
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 3: BP deep deep well deep water horizons certainly signaled a
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 3: lot of stuff, but nobody cared. The relational web metabolized
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 3: millions of barrels of oil, destroying the ecology of the coastal,
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 3: the wetlands and the marine life, and killing like ten men.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 3: It metabolized it into more ESG DEI initiatives. Oh and
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 3: get this, the guys who were telling them, the men
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 3: who were telling them, Hey, this is dangerous. This equipment
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 3: needs to be fixed. The pipe walls are getting too thin.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 3: We need to do something about this. You know what
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 3: their response to those men were. They had a meeting
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 3: about DEI and they decided that there's certain groups in
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 3: the company that aren't being heard. And those groups, guess
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 3: what they were were the men who were actually telling
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 3: them the problems that needed to be fixed. No, No,
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 3: the groups were minorities. Minority voices weren't being heard, and
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 3: that's why the disaster happened. So they're going to be
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 3: putting more minorities into HR and PR and that's going
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 3: to solve the problem of not listening to the most
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 3: likely sis white men who were telling them to fix
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 3: things before it became a disaster, marginalizing them further from
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 3: having any connection to the levers that would have gotten
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 3: the equipment fixed. This woman is the reason why Western
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 3: civilization is refinery fire by refinery fire, by ecological disaster,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 3: by procurement failure, folding in on itself and collapsing. God speed,
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 3: good luck to us all. I'm dead.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: I couldn't find it, Alison. There's definitely like multiple versions
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: of this, all right.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 3: If we go more deeply into it, we could we
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 3: could maybe what sounds like we are, so we're going
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 3: to go through.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: This, Yeah, No, I mean like we can do one
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: more maybe on the or maybe one.
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 3: Or two it like we've done the video.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's up to you, Tlier. I guess.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 5: That would the next bit be the document?
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the mestic would be the specifically the document
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 3: which we could send you a link to.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 5: I'm sure you'll need to read book.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 3: No, it's I don't think it's a book.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: Is a book length, it's a it's a okay, So
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: we're just looking at the feminist the Cyborg Manifesto. There's
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: a couple of versions. It is a long document, but
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: we can probably find the highlights or the summaries or
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: something like that. The Cybeborg Manifesto is a seven nineteen
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: eighty five essay by Donna Harroway, originally published in Socialist Review.
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: Huh interesting that redefines feminist politics through the lens of
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: technology and hybridity. Harroway proposes the cyborg, a fusion of
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: organism and machine as a metaphor, so you know, not
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: even like a literal cyborg, which would have been actually
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: something cool, as a metaphor to dismantle rigid, rigid Western
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: dualisms such as human and animal, human and machine, and
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: nature and culture. So yeah, there you go, I'll do it.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 3: I'll make the decision.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 5: Thirty pages. I've found it. It's on the Anarchist Library.
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 3: Unsurprisingly, Yeah, yeah, well let's let's just let's finish it off.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 3: I mean again, this is the ship that we're dealing with.
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 3: The like, the consequences of allowing these people to set
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 3: policy is what what is happening now in the West
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 3: mm hm.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 5: Another reason why we have to go back through these
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 5: papers in these books from the eighties and nineties. Doesn't
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 5: matter how old you think they are. We are living
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 5: in their shadow.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 3: Indeed, these are the pillars that we decided to construct.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 4: Okay, I am good, Okay.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 3: I feel like, yes, I think this is and I
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 3: know that you have things to do, places to be,
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 3: people to pick up Brian. If you are interested in
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 3: anything that we spoke about on this show, can send
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 3: a comment and a tip to feed the Badger dot
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 3: com slash just the tip and if you would like
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 3: to support the show because it is we exist because
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 3: you guys do support us. Feed the Badger dot com
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 3: slash support. And yeah, if you're hearing weird sounds, it's
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 3: because my dog is running in the backwards background and
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 3: picking up a ball probably and he is a sizable
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 3: chonk as of the dog, so he makes a lot
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 3: of noise when he stops to pick up a ball.
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: He's doing a lot of work, you know. They they
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: are They work hard, and we don't treat them well.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: They are the true they are one of the real.
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: Oppressed individual Yeah, the dogs and the plants and the planet.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not the humans who said not the men who said,
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 3: please fix this equipment it's going to be a disaster
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 3: and probably died too. That's what's horrifying about it. These
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 3: guys were saying, we need this equipment fixed, and they're there,
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 3: in many cases recorded as the men who died in
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 3: these disasters. Just chew over that for a bit. But yeah,
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 3: my dog, he's he's a bit more of a working dog.
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 3: I get him to pull a sleigh so he might
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 3: have a cause for a little bit of I don't know,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 3: wanting to union with other sleigh dogs, get get better,
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 3: seze the means of transportation. Who knows. But anyway, if again,
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 3: if you want to send any messages, feed the Badger
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 3: dot com slash just the tip support the sow feed
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 3: the Badger dot com slash support. If you want to
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 3: read more of my analysis on cognitive modalities and other stuff,
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 3: you know, my analysis of what's happening in the workplaces, disasters,
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 3: procurement problems, all that kind of stuff. Uh, feed feed
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 3: the No, sorry, badger nation dot online because I like
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 3: to put my stuff into a commune rather than on
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 3: a blog. That's just the way I am. That's my
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 3: relational modality thinking. So anyway, those are the three things
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 3: to consider, and I'll hand it back to you, Brian.
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, if you guys liked this video, please hit
• 1:50:14
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• 1:50:17
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• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: you guys think about what we talked about on the
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: show today, and share the video because sharing is caring.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: Thank you to Tiel Dear for taking the time to
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: join us as we go through this slop, and thank
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: you guys most of all for watching and share the
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: video because sharing is caring. I already said that, but whatever,
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: Thanks guys so much for coming on the show today,
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 1: and we will talk to you guys in the next one.
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: Have a good weekend.
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: Everybody, Men's right activists are machines, dude.