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Why Can't Catholic Priests Marry? What the Bible Actually Says · Relish: a Christian podcast

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Relish pleasing or zestful flavor a quantity just sufficient to flavor to be
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pleased or gratified by enjoy we are hoping that what we bring to your table
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today might add some spice to your life,
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good morning it's good to have you on relish a little outside our comfort zone but,
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grant has all the questions this is grant bender he's a associate pastor at
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colonna mennonite church and He's stepping in for Alex in this period of time
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where we're getting that all together. And I'm Don Patterson.
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I've been around a long time with this podcast.
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So we hope that this podcast blesses you and somehow you get a nugget you can
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take with you into your day, into your week, and show on a little bit longer.
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And if you have more questions, you can follow up with that in the comments,
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and Alex will glean that out and send it our way.
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So Grant, how are you doing? Good. How are you? So far, so good.
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We'll figure out how the first question is.
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Answer that after the first question. Yeah. Because one of the things that is
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part of the, how would you say, the comic relief is that the questions come
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in such a way that I don't, on this, I have no idea what he's going to ask.
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And that being the case, then that means I have to give my first answer and
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hopefully my best answer right off the cuff without any study ahead of time.
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And sometimes the comic relief is when you can stump Pastor Don and it's been
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done before and Alex has done it and Rowan has done it and you're going to get a chance to do it. Yeah.
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See if you can stump Pastor Don. We'll relish the thought. There you go.
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Okay, I guess my first question, I don't think this will stump you,
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but why don't Catholics marry Catholic priests, and why do we allow our pastors to marry?
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Well, I think that has to do with a lot of the understanding in 1 Corinthians
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6, and they're wanting to be—it's that passage where Paul affirms singleness.
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And so I believe the following thought is then if you're.
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Part of that, like the nuns are married to Christ.
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And so that's why they don't marry, because they already have their association
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as being the bride of Christ.
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The priests then are affirming that singleness that Paul talked about and focusing
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solely on their role in the kingdom work of the church.
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And so they don't marry because they, I think Paul says it very distinctly,
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but a married man is concerned about the, I would like you to be free from concern.
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An unmarried man is concerned, an unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's
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affairs, how he can please the Lord.
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And I think that's where they derive it from.
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Because Paul goes on and says, a married man is concerned about the affairs
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of the world, how he can please his wife.
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His interests are divided. An unmarried woman or a virgin is concerned about the Lord's affair.
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Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit.
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But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of the world,
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how she can please her husband.
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I'm saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live,
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in a right way in undivided devotion to God. Wow.
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And so it's an interpretation of the Scripture. So then your second half is, why do we then as...
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Protestants, protesters, you, go ahead and marry.
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And we actually, historically, there are some parts of the Protestant faith that did practice this.
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When the Russian Mennonites came over from Russia, they had a nun ray for the
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deaconess hospital. They were actually deaconesses.
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And so they devoted their life to the hospital, and by devoting their life to
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the hospital, they served in the food service, they served as nurses,
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they served as orderlies,
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and then their livelihood was part of the hospital.
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And so, you'll end up with Bethel Dinkin's Hospital. And like in Newton,
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there was actually a nunnery across from my grandparents, because those Russian
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Mennonites carried some of the same belief.
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And so, it's not isolated totally for the Catholics, but mostly.
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And we're free. We figure that we can do both. Yeah.
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Makes sense. Part of it goes back to chapter six is, you know,
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we don't want to burn. With lust. Yeah. Yeah.
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We want those taken care of.
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Yeah. And so we marry. Makes sense. Body, mind, soul, and spirit.
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And Peter was married. Peter was married. And he's the first pope,
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so. Yeah. Riddle me that. Yeah. Riddle me that.
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Yeah i i anyway that's that's part of how i understand the development that's
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of the excellent answer yeah yeah and and the young guys these young guys who
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are priests and you call them father,
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i mean i yeah i was stretched this today meeting the priest uh in one of our
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campuses close here and and uh yeah father okay yeah he looks like he's younger
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than my grandson And so I, oh, father.
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Okay.
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No, just stretched me a little bit, but we made it. Yeah. No,
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that makes sense. That makes sense.
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Well, that's a good answer to the first question. We survived the first question. That's good.
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Next question. So baptism is often described as a public declaration of an inward change, right?
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Is there anything more going on there? Is there anything spiritual going on when you get baptized?
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There should be. If so, what happens in baptism that hasn't already happened prior to the baptism?
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What specifically happens in going under the water and coming up, if there is anything?
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Well, that moment, we do hope so.
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So in our Protestant churches, we do want believer's baptism because we know
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that it needs to be a public declaration of our faith.
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And it's sort of a seal, if you will, on the faith that we've already confessed.
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The spiritual part we're hoping and praying for, and often I use the words.
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For the Holy Spirit to be poured out on that individual who's being baptized,
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because if they haven't experienced the Holy Spirit before that,
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we do hope they experience the Holy Spirit baptism soon in that process.
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Uh, so the Holy Spirit baptism is, is almost another layer, if you will, to our water baptism.
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We know that water baptism is a symbolize, symbolizes our confession and our
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repentance and our washing from sin.
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And so that's an important element of our, if our Christian walk.
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And I really believe we need to mark that when God has gotten ahold of our hearts
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and moved us away from the world and our worldly way of thinking
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toward God and His way of thinking, His kingdom, we should mark that.
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And baptism is one of those ways.
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We also need to understand that even in the book of Acts, the baptism of the
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Holy Spirit was almost a separate entity because there were times that,
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like Peter and John, they,
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went, oh, what is that? It's Acts chapter 6, isn't it? 8?
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It's Simon. No, no, no, no. Yes, that's the same spot. Simon's sorcerer.
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But that congregation had John's baptism, but did not yet have the Holy Spirit baptism. And so...
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When,
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the apostles came to Samaria, they accepted the word of God,
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and then Peter and John joined them.
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When they arrived, they prayed that they might receive the Holy Spirit because
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the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them.
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They simply had the baptism, had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus,
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which would be comparable to John's baptism.
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Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
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That's crazy that they were baptized in Jesus' name, but they didn't receive the Spirit.
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I always forget about that. Yeah. And so the aspect of that leads us to believe
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that, okay, there's baptism for repentance and the forgiveness of sins.
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Then there's the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And some denominations really make
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it two totally different things. And sometimes they're together,
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maybe. And sometimes they're together as well.
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And in fact, there are several times when you get to Acts chapter 10 and those
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people are baptized and they receive the spirit right away. Yeah.
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And that's when Cornelius,
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Peter comes to Cornelius's house and the people that were gathered there.
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And the evidence of the Holy Spirit is right there.
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So this is separating, that's together, it can be both ways.
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So then the second question might be, so the baptism piece is to seal us as a guarantee.
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And when you get to 2 Corinthians 5, then that Holy Spirit baptism seals our salvation.
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And so we need that second baptism and open ourselves to it.
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And then somebody's going to say, well, how do you know if you've been baptized by the Holy Spirit?
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And I'd say, go through the test.
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The test would be Galatians 5 and then verses 20. It's the things of the flesh.
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And then 22 then talks about the baptism, the fruits of the Spirit.
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Well, and that love, joy, peace, long-suffering, those things are actually evidence
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that the Holy Spirit is working in our life. Yeah. Because they're not normal human things.
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Our human nature is very selfish. Yeah. And self-centered, like that first list.
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Our Holy Spirit fruit is in that second list.
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And it seems so many times that we as Christians grow into that list over a period of time.
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So sometimes I'd say the Holy Spirit works on us rather slow.
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And then I've had times when the Holy Spirit just happens.
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Well, and I was in a meeting where the Holy Spirit was so evident and moving
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in our midst that speaking in tongues happened.
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A prophecy was in that meeting well it's great stuff so,
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baptism for the repentance and forgiveness of sins that's basic gotta happen,
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but it opens the door for the baptism of the holy spirit either right then or
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over the course of time to happen in our life that's why i,
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i want people to to think about the fact that this, this Christian life is not a one-off.
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It's a ongoing experience in our life. In other words, uh, God wants us to continue,
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to grow in him. It, I mean, you've stopped growing, I hope, but,
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uh, and I stopped growing.
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I actually stopped growing in eighth grade. Well, I'm the same height I am in eighth grade.
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So I stopped a long time ago.
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Well, praise the Lord. I haven't stopped in my Christian life because even at the, my age.
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Just shy of 70. In the last five years, I've grown.
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Well, there's been new stuff that God's done in my life and revealed in my life,
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that didn't happen in the 40 years, 50 years of my Christian walk before that.
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So we as Christians today should not think, okay, I got baptized.
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Well that's done,
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but open ourselves to the fact that God has something more for us to grow into,
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and to live into.
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To increase our capacity to be who he's called us to be as people of God it's
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an ongoing experience it's a
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wonderful thing but God never fails to prepare us for what is yet to come,
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Yeah, I like that. As you were talking, I thought of how Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit onto them.
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So they had the Spirit in them, and they believed he was risen from the dead,
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but it wasn't until Pentecost that they were baptized by that Spirit.
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Right. And then, well, and then you get to chapter, I think it's four and,
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or at the end of it, they pray for boldness and they're filled again.
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And it's just like increasing measures kind of.
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So a lot of people try and put how God moves into a box.
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I wouldn't put him in a box unless it's one that he reveals through scripture. So. I agree.
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And there's so many different places in scripture where he's revealed in new
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ways that I, yeah, I'd hate their outguessing. Exactly. Yeah.
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God says he's not going to do something he's not going to, but if he doesn't,
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then you shouldn't say he's not going to. Oh, God will ever hear that. Yeah.
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Yeah. That's true. That's true. We don't want to handcuff God. Yeah.
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That's one of the worst, silliest things you can do probably.
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Yeah. And just foolish. Okay.
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Good answer. That was very, deep. Um, why, how do we know that we follow the correct denomination?
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Oh, it's what I'm in.
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Well, I think we live in a time where a lot of questions about denominationalism are on the table.
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And it really shouldn't be threatening because our denominations are supposed to reflect the kingdom.
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And so if the denomination's doing something that's not scriptural, you can question it.
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We're fine. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and think about it. Our faith has always been refined.
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If you've been yielded to God's refinement.
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Because, okay, any given denomination, I was part of the Mennonite church.
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Okay, Menno Simons.
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No foundation can be laid other than that which is already laid,
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which is in Christ Jesus. 1 Corinthians 3, verse 11.
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But as that denomination grew, they took little deviations here or there as
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to what is this, you know? And so the Amish church grew out of that,
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the Baptist church grew out of that, because they thought that we needed to refine it more.
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And they refined parts of it in different ways.
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And so that made, what is there, 190 or 200 different denominations that came
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out of the Anabaptist movement, out of the Frisian and the Swiss.
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Part of the Reformation. So.
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God's always going to work, well, there's two forces that will work against
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the church, in the church.
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God's going to work for the church and for establishing his church in his people.
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That's the positive side. Satan's always going to work against the church and
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always work at causing division.
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And so there's got to be a seeking out of what God's going to do in the here and now.
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And what's interesting is it seems to always be separating peoples.
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Well, because there's always somebody that's right, or at least thinks they are.
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In these discussions. I guess if I were to boil that conversation down,
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if you're facing that struggle as a congregation, as a unique congregation, spend, invest, invest.
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A great deal of time in prayer about what your chart, your congregation supposed
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to be in light of who God is in your community,
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because somehow through the church, God should be shedding light into that community.
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And how, how's that happening? If your congregation's, uh, touching the community
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and, and investing there and changing lives, uh, there's probably evidence It's God's part of it.
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And so grab hold of it. If it's different than your denomination believes, test it.
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Because you might have to join a different denomination.
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But be true to who you are as a congregation. God put you there,
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planted you there as individuals for a purpose, for a reason.
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And you don't want to lose sight of that.
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Don't lose sight of God's purpose for you as a people of God.
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I mean, I've seen traditionalism come in and, oh, well, we can't do that.
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We can't do that because it's not part of our tradition.
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Yeah. That's, yeah. That's probably a silly path.
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Tevye talked about tradition and he, in Fiddler on the Roof,
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you know, tradition, tradition.
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And so I don't think it got him anywhere.
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And he comes to the end of it and says, well, you know.
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Traditions help us in many times, but sometimes they can actually become a diversion of their own.
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It's seen very clearly in the Pharisees. Exactly.
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So, be mindful of what God's called you as a congregation to be.
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And if you're a leader in a congregation, I'd say you need to take that double fold.
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What's God calling you to? What's God calling your people to?
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Or calling you to lead them into, because that's unique to the community you're in.
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Yeah. Your congregational footprint is important to that community.
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So it's almost kind of like you're less concerned about being correct in everything
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and more concerned about offering yourself to God and saying,
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God, where can we grow? Like, where should we be refined at? Yeah.
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If your denomination is constraining you from being free to live into what God's
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called you to, that's a red flag. Gotcha. Yeah.
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Yeah. Another good thing is if you don't agree with scripture,
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you're definitely not the right denominator. Oh, man. Yeah.
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Scripture's the bottom line. Scripture's the bottom line. Yeah.
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If you got to preach something other than scripture, then whoa.
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Yeah. That's so far, that's like a dark flag. That's not even red.
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That's just a black flag. Right.
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But scripture's one of those ways that we discern God's will.
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Amen. I mean, it's the foundational.
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And so we test it by the Spirit moving among us, and we test it with God's Word,
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and then we move forward.
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Amen. If it's in line with God's Word and the Spirit that's moving among us,
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let's do it. That's a good answer to that question.
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That's just a lot shorter than the other stuff I gave, wasn't it? It was all good.
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Well well god bless you i we hope that this week's broadcast uh blesses you
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and your family and your household share it with somebody if you think it has some meaning and and uh,
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good solid stuff to share and thank you grant for being part of it and we pray
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that god would lead you all this coming week in ways that honor and glorify Him and lift you up.
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And next week, we'll see you, Lord willing.