Latest / Normally / Normally Podcast: The Case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia

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Normally Podcast: The Case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia · Normally

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. Back on normally the show with it's
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: normally she takes but when the news gets weird. I
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: am Mary Katherine. And by the way, Happy path.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Over and Happy Easter are celebrating this week, Thank you,
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Mary Catherine, and I am Carol Markowitz. And it is
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: a crazy week with the kids off from school. Are
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: you feeling it over there?
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, we have the kids home as well. And I
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: was doing some Easter clothing shopping. We do try to
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: get a little some special stuff for the kids for Easter.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: And you'll appreciate this. When I was wandering through a
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: store and I was like, I'm not going to get
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: my oldest new shoes. She's fine new shoes.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: And I stumbled on in like Nordstrom rack a pair
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: of tiny women's the right size for her, bubblegum pink
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: pat and leather loafers and I do not, I must
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: buy these.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: You must let me know they have them in my size.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: I could seriously use some bubblegum pink.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I will send them along if I could find them.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I was like, how is this real? You're getting new
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: shoes girl, So well, that's happening. That made everybody happy.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, nothing makes me happier than shoes. Actually
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: my favorite thing to buy.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: So here we are on another normal week. Yeah right,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: you're going super normally. The biggest story continues to be
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: this man they refer to him as Maryland Maryland father,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Kilmar Abrago Garcia accidentally deported to El Salvador. You know what,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Actually I don't know. Maybe you don't know. Let's discuss
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: how is he accidentally deported?
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: So this is the part where the Trump administration runs
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: into a problem because they have admitted in court documents
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: that they made a clerical error that men he got
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: on this plane to El Salvador. He was part of
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: a group that was rounded up to potentially be on
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: these planes. And then someone realized that at some point
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: this man who although he was adjudicated possibly MS thirteen
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: by an immigration judge in twenty nineteen, he did have
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: what is it called, there's some sort of protection status
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: he was given that did not allow him to be
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: sent back to El Salvador because of gang threats to
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: him allegedly in his home country. But isn't that what
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: they all say? Well, yes, but the problem was that
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: that protective status was given by the Trump during the
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Trump administration, the last.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: One that's going to leave the mark, Right.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so he had this thing. Now, it doesn't change
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: the fact that he was definitely an illegal immigrant in
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: this country. I've looked at the government's evidence that he
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: was in thirteen. It's it doesn't seem like a ton
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: But I'm like of the mind that he definitely shouldn't
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: be sent to a prison in El Salvador, Right, And
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: if we had an order that said he should not
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: be sent to El Salvador, we can deport him, and
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: we should, but we've got to send him somewhere else, right.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: The thing that's sort of odd about this is I
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: have never seen Democrats fight harder for any lives in
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: their lives as they have for this person who was
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: in the United States legally and was possibly an MS
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: thirteen gang member.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I'm with you, if they.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Made a mistake, they should fix it. I don't see
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: the problem with simply deporting him to El Salvador and
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: not to the prison there El Salvador. Figure it out
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: from there. But there is there's just a marked thing
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: with the Democrats where they are fighting for him in
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: a way that I have never seen them fight for anything.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Well, and you know, same with the Columbia card guy
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: who was down in Louisiana who a court did say,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: like he can be deported. Yeah, someone rightly made the
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: point that Chris van Holland, who's like, I need to
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: meet directly with this head of state to talk about
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: this man, you know, releases perfunctory statements about the murder
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: of his own citizens at the hands of illegal immigrants. Right, right,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: there is a marked difference, and that is something that
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: you know, I think American citizens will give him quite
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: a bit of leeway on the immigration stuff because he
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: has had immense success at the border and frankly, Biden
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: intentionally created a problem so large that correcting it is
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: going to have mistakes, right, but that's it. Yeah, But
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I also think, like you need to show the courts
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: when we make a mistake, we'll fix it or else
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: the courts are going to be like, well, then you
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: have to do this perfectly, and they can't do it perfectly.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Right, there's no perfect Yeah, where it's very hard to
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: achieve perfect. Yeah, they're in a mind and I'd like
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: to see them fix it instead of continuing to dig
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: this hole.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, and they, like I said, he can
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: be deported elsewhere, but he has to go through a process.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: And the people who are removed under this Alien Enemies
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Act have to have habeas corpus. You know, they can
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: do it where they're detained, they can't do it anywhere
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: in the nation and shop forum shop like they have
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: been doing. That was the Supreme Court decision on that.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: This Abrego Garcia case has been to the Supreme Court
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: already and then it got kicked back down to the
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: district court to clarify. They had a hearing today and
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: the conclusion of that is basically like, yeah, you do
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: need to facilitate him coming back. I'm going to be
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: more clear about what that means. And probably this thing's
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: going to Supreme Court again to discuss this guy's face.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Kind Of wonder where they end up on it, because
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: they seem to give Trump some leeway on this kind
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: of stuff.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they're trying to thread a needle. But
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I think there is a risk in them if they're
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: not clear enough that Trump then has a standoff with
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: these district courts and like the where then where are you?
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Right?
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  Speaker 1: But I think I'm very sympathetic to people who are like,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: so we're going to do an individual hearing for every
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: single person who's in this country illegally, and that does
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: become a nightmare scenario. And there was no rule of
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: law when people were flowing over the border at tens
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: of thousands a day.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: That's the best point right there. There was no rule
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: of law then, but now it has to be to
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: the absolute letter of law, and that's a little ridiculous.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: It's very frustrating. Yeah, and yet then I you know,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: I watched the Oval Office where he's meeting with Bukele,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: who I actually talked to a friend from who worked
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: in El Salvador for many years, and she said that
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: the download on Boukele is like people really like him
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: because he made it safer there. Right. Bukele's line, who
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: is the l Salvador president in the Oval Office was
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: people say, I've imprisoned thousands, but I like to think
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: that I have liberated millions, meaning that the many people
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: who live in El Salvador now don't have to live
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: in fear of being murdered as nearly as often as
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: they were before. And Trump leans over to him and goes,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: that's good.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Trump's like, have you considered printing that on red hats?
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: So he's he's popular for that reason. He has taken
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: various democratic processes away or limited them during his crackdown,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: but generally he's popular. But he's like kind of a
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: strong man, kind of dude who made the place a
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: lot safer. So that's the deal with him. And then
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Trump is like, we are exploring the option of sending
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: violent American criminals to l Salvador.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, new right, yeah, oh yes, you know,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: to quote my fifteen year old Trump says things, yeah,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: and so you know, we'll see what happens. But obviously
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: we hear it, normally disapprove of.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: That kind of behavior. He's like, Pam's investigating it, and
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: I assume that PAM will come up with the fact
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: that that's on constitution.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Right, I believe in PAM.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: So that's what's going on with Raio Garcia. Yeah, I
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: will say that there was one there was one poll
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: this week that showed a lot of slippage for Trump
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: among independent voters. And I think between too much of
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: this plus tariffs and like sort of the chaos in
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: the market, you run a risk of getting in real
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: bad political water with that demographic.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Especially, Yeah, the tariff thing. You know, it's so tough
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: because it changes so often, as we've discussed on here.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: That's I think what the real problem is for a
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: lot of people. People can't plan, they can't think ahead.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: And I think that the sense was Trump would take
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: office and things would be so much better in the economy,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: specifically that this has been a shock to a lot
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: of systems. It still could go great. Ultimately, it could
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: still work itself out. The stock market's doing better, all
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: of that, but they need to have some sort of
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: cohesion going forward to not have this disarray.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I will say, however, if those independents were watching Joe
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Biden's first time out since the election, they would have
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: been reminded why so many people and they themselves voted
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: for Trump. Because here's the beginning of his speech. Delaware,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: like Maryland, was one of those states, a slave state.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: We had all the vestiges of what was going on
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: back in the day. We were one of those states
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: that still I remember moving from Scranton, Pennsylvania, down to Wilmington, Delaware.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: When Cola died. My dad moved back to where here.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: I can't even do this, it's too gay, God suo painful.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: He I believe uses the word colored at one point mm.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Hm color yep. He saw them on a bus.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Colored kids on a bus. They never turned right to
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: go to claim Out high school. I wondered why, I
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: asked Mom, why why? So in Delaware they're not allowed
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: to go to school in public schools with white kids. Honey.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: That sparked my sense of outrageous kid, just like if
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: they're I mean, and these young kids right here can
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: tell you things affect them when they learn about something
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: that's really just unfair and unjust. And that was the opener.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: That was the opener, Carol, I gipped half of.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: It right that is. Yeah, you're like, thank you Donald
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Trump for being here.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I was on Guy Benson's show a few days ago
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: and he asked me, as a first time Trump voter,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: how I thought things were going, and I said, you know,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: there were only two options, and the other option was
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: unacceptable to me. So I'm not going to agree with
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: everything with Donald Trump. You and I are open about
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: that fact. Where not sycophants. We're gonna call it as
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: we see it. But would I at any point trade
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: him for Kamala Harris or Joe Biden.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I would not. No, I mean that's that's really something else.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: The man is still showing that patented Biden judgment by
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: coming out and giving that speech today.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: I mean people are asking for it, right. Somebody was like, hey,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: let's get Joe Biden up on that stage.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Oh man. And at one point I was watching a
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: streamer watch him, which is a thing we do in
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: this house, and I look up and he's just cracking up.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: The streamer is, and then Joe Biden starts screaming in
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: that yelly way, yelly angry man way that he does,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: and the streamer goes, oh, he found caps lock. So
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: that was Biden's re emergence.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back on normally. In other Trump news,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump has frozen more than two point two billion
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: dollars to Harvard University. And not to quote my fifteen
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: year old too much, but she saw this headline over
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: my shoulder, and she said, why was giving Harvard two
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: point two billions? She's really, why is that?
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Teen? Yeah?
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: And I also don't understand how we've let this go
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: on for so long, where these schools with these giant endowments,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: who charge close to one hundred thousand dollars a year
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: per student are taking this kind of tax payer money.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: I just think it's unacceptable and.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: This, Yeah, why did we ever get here?
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: It makes no sense. Look, the money was frozen because
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: they want certain demands from Harvard about how to protect
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Jewish students on campus. The New York Post posted some
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: pictures of Jewish students being harassed during these protests that
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: were going on, and Harvard said, no, we're not going
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: to do that. We're not going to protect Jewish kids
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: on campus. We are going to forego this money, and
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: people are praising it. Barack Obama is praising, praising Harvard
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: for standing up and saying no, we will not stop
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: the anti semitism on our campus.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Well, because active violations have gone on on these campuses
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: that should be like civil rights prosecutions right at UCLA,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: especially that there was the actual checkpoint to see if
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: you were Jewish, which is a nice touch. Somewhere like Columbia,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: they're holding people hostage, they're occupying buildings like they're there's
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: they're preventing people from going class, threatening them all sorts
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: of stuff. And so I know there's some who are
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: like that there are concerns with how you do this,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, here's how you do it. Any private
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: university that has an endowment over one billion dollars gets nothing.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: And then you know what, it's not content based. We're
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: not we're not pulling the strings based on what your
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: thoughts are. And then you go after him on the
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: civil rights stuff as well, because they absolutely deserve it.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Piers Morgan made a great point where he was talking
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: about the activity on these campuses and he's like, so
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: you're telling me that if the man who was sent
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: down to the Louisiana facility and then the court said
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: he could be deported, the Columbia guy with the green car,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: So you're telling me, imagine this was a white supremacist
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: who had been threatening black students in the exact same
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: ways for this period of time, and you're telling me
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: this country would be like, oh, we must save him
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: because of his speech rights, right, Like he's involved in
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: criminal and threatening behavior.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah to other students exactly. Colin Wright, he tweets at
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: swipe right. His comment on this was really good. He
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: said Harvard is free to keep its racist policies, just
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: not on the taxpayer's dime. All funding comes with strings,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: just like all funding. If they don't like the strings,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: they're free to reject the money, which they appear to
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: be doing.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: So the left's argument on a lot of this, And
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: there are some like really consistent free speech people who
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: make this argument, and I am willing to listen to
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: the consistent ones. Sure, but there's this thing with both
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: the immigration and the academic institutions where it's like, okay,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: so let me get this string. You get to come
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: here illegal immigrants, do whatever you want. We're giving you
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: all sorts of benefits, and then we can't remove you, right,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: that's the deal. And then with colleges, it's like, okay,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: so we're going to give you billions of dollars, you
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: do whatever you want, and then we can't take the
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: money back.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Right, Like, yeah, none of that makes sense elective, that's right.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: And so I mentioned Barack Obama his comment on it,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: praising Harvard was Harvard has set an example for other
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: higher ed institutions, rejecting an unlawful and handhanded attempt to
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: stifle academic freedom while taking concrete steps to make sure
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: all students at Harvard can benefit from an environment of
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: intellectual inquiry, rigorous debate, and mutual respect. Let's hope other
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: institutions follow suit. When did Harvard have rigorous debate? When
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: was this intellectual inquiry? I have completely missed the mutual respect. So,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's just this is nonsense. He knows that
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: this isn't true. He knows what the real situation is,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: and he's just defending a liberal institution.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Just give me my money back, that's all. That's all
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I want. Yeah, just give me my money back.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think this is one of those
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: issues where Trump is on the side of most Americans,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: and I think that most Americans will be like my
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: teenager hearing for the first time that we give this
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: kind of money to these schools and under.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Why do we do that?
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: And for those people saying, you know, all universities get
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: money like this, this is just how it works, well a,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: this is not how it should work, would be. Let
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: me tell you about Hillsdale College in Michigan. So they
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: don't really are They're having so much fun. I love Hillsdale.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I did a fellowship there last year. I loved it.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: But the fact that they don't accept money from the
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: federal government and they don't alter anything because of that,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: and they don't have to worry about who which administration's
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: in and which one likes them or doesn't or any
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: of that. You want to be free of strings, that's
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: how you do it.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's how you do it. I don't know.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: They're also doing the recisions for NPR and PBS, and
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: I'm just so on board with that. Yeah, this insane
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: idea that like, oh no, there will be no children's
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: programming if there's no PBS come on, while there's like
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: just just dreams of new streaming products per day. And
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: also that the NPR folks, much like Ivy League academics,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: are some of the most affluent people in this country
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: and they can just buy more tote bags and fund
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: them more instead of making me do it. Exactly.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know why we'd be funding any of it.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: People always say, oh, but it's just such a small amount,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: but why should it be anything.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if it's such a I believe in you.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, absolutely, If you're going to fund anything, I
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: think it should be this podcast called Normally. Yeah, send
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Lass your federal money please.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing like we would never dream. It's
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: so funny to me what we're finding out. And I
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: knew that, yeah existed, I know, I didn't know as
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: much of it existed as this. Like on the left,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't blink an eye thinking, oh, we do have
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: this very edifying podcast, and we should go ask the
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: federal gent to slink us in on one of these,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: on one of these.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Now we've been paying for all of this.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: We've been paying for all of this.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, get that cash.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know works of podcasting to pay for the
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: other podcasters and nonprofits.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I want to get out of these salt mines. Mary Catherine.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Smallest violin for us all that. Yeah, I'm easy, easy cal.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: We're going to take a short break and come right
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: back with normally. Well. Our last topic today is there
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: was a blockbuster article in the New York Times about
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: how we are thinking about ADHD all wrong. I think
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: you and I are similar where I think we've self
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: diagnosed as HDHD. I mean I have a lot of
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: things where when I read about people who have ADHD,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I totally have all of that, but I've
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: never I've never had any issues. I'll just say so
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I've remember hating challenges, and I've never been diagnosed in
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: any way, but I could see myself having this.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I have an official diagnosis now. But for
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: you too, it was like for years I was like, uh, well,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: a lot of these things do sort of line up,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and what I discovered and this is actually this actually
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: speaks to the thesis of this piece, which is worth
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: reading in full just because it's fascinating about our culture,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: because we have like this explosion of people being diagnosed,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: particularly young men, and part of that is like maybe
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: they're just an environment that's not working with their brains,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: and so you're just sort of medicating them into complacency
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: instead of actually solving a medical problem. But one of
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: the things I realized is like, I work in this
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: business where I'm either on a writing deadline, or I
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: have to speak on a stage, or I have to
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: be on live TV. And the reason I do this
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: job is because the only time my brain works, not
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the only time works, but when.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: It works whatevers, well, yeah, is.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: When I have twenty minutes before I have to get
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: on stage and everything just goes right.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I'm never better than under pressure.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Then I can function and I think that is basically
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: a career built on self medicating.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Right, But what do you you don't you don't. Actually,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: the self medicating is the career, isn't it.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's the adrenaline. And that's what the thesis
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: of this piece is that maybe ADHD should not be
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: seen as just like a brain disorder, but as something
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: that is part of who you are and in fact
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: thrives in the right circumstances, and that you need to
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: be a little flexible about finding those circumstances, as opposed
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: to always making yourself sit in a chair for eight
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: hours to do the work. And what they've found is
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: that a lot of kids who had ADHD diagnoses when
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: they were little, as they became older and they were
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: more flexible and able to get jobs that worked better
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: for them, their symptoms dissipated, right, or that they felt better. Yeah.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: So the New York Times actually had a separate piece
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: summing up the research, and they had this paragraph, which
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: I think is what you're saying. ADHD is usually portrayed
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: primarily as a medical condition, a neurodevelopmental disorder with a
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: genetic cause, which is why we often look first to
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: medication to treat it, but researchers are now discovering that
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: ADHD symptoms can be highly responsive to the environment as well.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: When the surroundings of a person with an ADHD diagnosis
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: improve a more engaging classroom, a more stimulating job, a
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: more congenial home life, his symptoms often improve as well.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: And not to minimize anybody going through anything, but I've
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: often thought that this is similar to depression, that people
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: sometimes are depressed in certain situations, and when they're out
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: of that situation, the depression lifts. Again, I'm not a doctor.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that ADHD or depression or any of
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: that is not real. It is real, but it could
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: be cured with more than medicine.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Right well, and you know, I try to. It's hereditary,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: so we have to, or so they think, you know,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: like the science is evolving here because there isn't actually
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: a real like test or biomarker for this thing. But
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: I'll just say that one of my children has similar
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: tendencies to me. Yeah, right, and so I do a
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: lot of reading about how to improve things for her.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that improves the symptoms is
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: having a structured day and having a structured things that
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: she can expect and that she knows, so she's not
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: sort of scattered looking around for things all the time.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: And so it actually helps that I am married to
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: my opposites attract husband. It is extremely strong, sure, and
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: it gives her the gift of I know where my
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: things are, the day is planned for me, I get
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: where I need to be next, and that lets her,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: that lets her thrive in a different way. We also
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: do keep the screen time low because for all kids,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: but I think especially for those with attention issues can
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: become a problem.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: I think that it's funny because I think we went
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: through a period where we talked about screens a lot,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: and now we don't talk about it as much. We
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: don't talk about not not you and I, but our society.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I feel like we went through a time where we
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: were like, yeah, we can't have these kids be on
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: the screens, and then everyone just gave up. I think
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: pandemic probably was well de yeah.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: And I think Jonathan hates the anxious generation has made
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: it interested again.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: My thing with that is that I think that the
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: kids use screens in a totally different way now, and
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: they use it, they use it like many televisions and
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: I talk about this and I write about this. This
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: is this is one of my pet peeve issues where
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: they use the TV. They used the phone as a
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: mini television, and I do too. I watch little clips
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: all the time. I watched, you know, reels, little I don't.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know on.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: TikTok, but they are essentially tiktoks. And I think that
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: they're using it in a in a not social media
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: way anymore. And that's the difference.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, uh, when because I hear parents talk
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: about it a lot, because there were a lot of
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: people who had to have their kids on a bunch
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: of shares during the pandemic, I was yeah, or they
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: just had to work so they had to do what
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: they had to do. Sure, I will say that if
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: you if you cold turkey your kids for a while,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: you will see behavior improvements, for sure. Yeah. And it's
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: sort of, uh, it's like one of the it's like
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: many parenting things were, like climbing the mountain is hard, right,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: once you get to come down, you've made your life
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: easier by working hard in that way.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, that's really it. You've solved your kids adhd well.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I do think this piece feels a little vibe shifty
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: because it was like it has a bit of a
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: maha message. Yeah, like, hey, maybe we shouldn't be medicating
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: our kids to extent. And that's not to say that
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: some kids do not need it, some do, right, yes,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: but yes, to consider the evidence and to say one
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: of the founders, like one of the standby guys of
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: ADHD studying and the main scientist who undertook the first
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: randomized control trial in this, I didn't know this. He's like,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: the benefits are good for a year, right, for twelve months,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: for six months, eight months a year, but if you
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: check thirty six months later, there's no difference in the
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: control group that's not getting yeah medication versus the one
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: that is. And I had never heard that before, and
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: I like to have that information absolutely.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: I wonder if this changes anything with how this is diagnosed.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: But I feel like this kind of thing takes a
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: while to shift, and you're right, it is a vibe shift.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Something is different here about them being able to say this,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: and you know, here normally we're glad they're telling the truth.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: That's really all that we want to hear. We'll see
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: where it goes. From there. Thanks for joining us on
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you could subscribe
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in touch with us
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: at normallythepod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening, and
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: when things get weird, act normally