Latest / Skin Anarchy / Rethink How You Choose Fragrance With The Magic of AI Driven Recommendations ft. iRomaScents & Veronique Gabai

Transcript

Rethink How You Choose Fragrance With The Magic of AI Driven Recommendations ft. iRomaScents & Veronique Gabai · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is Fragrance Friday, and I'm really excited about this episode because we're gonna be talking about all of the wonderful things that are on the horizon for the fragrance industry and really focusing on AI.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm really excited about the guests that we have with us today because this is a really great coming together of the minds and trying to really talk about the next steps of what's coming up.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think across the board for many industries, fragrance being one of them, where AI is really reshaping the way that consumers interact with the products that we purchase, our purchasing decisions, what goes behind them, and how to really customize this experience.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I would love to introduce you guys to the founders of iRoma Sense, Avner Gal and Erin Berry.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then we also have the amazing Veronique Gabye back with us again after so long.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome everybody.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be hosting everyone again.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for coming on the show.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having us.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to get started.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Avner, maybe you could get us started and talk to us about what was the original concept behind iRoma because this is a very new technology that you're coming out with, you know, and you're presenting to the world.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what went behind creating this?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what was the initial thought process behind bringing this kind of technology into the world of fragrance?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: All right, with pleasure.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, since uh early age of mine, I like to invent think, I like to come up with new things, I like to think out of the box.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And another like is I really like to see movies.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm crazy about movies.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And always when I saw movies, I ask myself, okay, something is missing.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in my age, I can tell you that I used to see the Charlie Chaplin movies without the voice and everything.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I went through all the progress in the movies, and I said to myself, okay, but one part, important part of part of our life is the smell.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And why can't we smell what we see?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: That should be uh integral part of every movie that we are watching.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it was in the back of my mind.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have time to, you know, take it seriously, but it was in the back of my mind during our previous company.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: I told Erin that we are working together for about 20 years already, and I told her, you know, always thinking about having smell to movies, to add smell to movies.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so one time that we'll have some time, then probably I'll I'll do something like that.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And indeed, when we left the previous company, then I rethink about this idea.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And here you go.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we started to work on that.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, while we are working and while we are talking about this and that, what can we done?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the smell is with us in every single move of our life, and it's not been used enough, in my view, at least in variety of fields.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we say, okay, so let's look for other alternatives.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: What can we do with the smells?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, back of our experience, mainly in uh Erin's experience, because I'm having my aftershave for many, many years.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't play with that, but Erin is like many women looking for a variety of uh fragrances.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then we said, okay, you know what?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: The way that people are shopping for fragrances in the world is like in the uh medieval times, and we are in the 21st century.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's about time to change it.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: So let's do it, and here we go.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's very fascinating, actually.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I also love Charlie Chaplin movies, by the way.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I understand, you know.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: I asked you because you're coming from this like very heavy RD background when engineering and the STEM fields, and then fragrance is this beautiful world.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's very sensorial, the lines get blurred, and it's different for everybody.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a very interesting transition, right?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: When you when you think about that, coming from this world of facts and all of the stuff that goes behind engineering, and then trying to mesh the worlds of fragrance and RD.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very fascinating.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Erin, I'd love to hear from you as well.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what when did you know that this was, you know, something that you really wanted to be a part of and and to do it, especially in the world of fragrance?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, working with Avna is we've been working so many years together now.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: So you create a you you have a bound.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: So then you know each other's mind.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I just feel that fragrance market is a place to to go because it's also based on the personal experience.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a fragrance lover, I love different smells, and I also like to go to the shop to try to see.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: But most of the time you try the third one or the fourth one, it's all smell the same.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: And when you go to the shop, you see so many brands, so many bottles.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: Which one should I begin with?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then sometimes you also would like to try some niche brands, but the niche brands eventually because you smell too many, and you just you just don't remember which one is what.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I just told Avna that you know this fragrance market is something we need to find, something to help people to actually focus to be able to identify what is the one that in your sensor is that you you take your box in the most efficient way rather than you get confused by all the bottles and all the walls and all the brands that your mindset get distracted.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right, that makes sense, and I think that's very interesting what you said is you know, I think anyone who loves fragrance has had this experience of going to a retail store or somewhere that you're shopping, and you start to experiment and you start to smell different perfumes that you really are interested in, and then eventually you get to this oversaturation point, you know, of like, now I don't know what I like.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I thought I did, but now I don't.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've had that experience many times in my own shopping experience.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that oftentimes that leaves you actually in a place where you're missing out on discovering amazing options for you.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this is very, very revolutionary for the industry, especially from a consumer standpoint.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I look at it.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Veronique, I'd love to get your take on this because I don't know of a better person that understands the world of fragrance better than you.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd love to get your take on like where you think this is going to lead us when we think about the future of the fragrance industry and how it intersects with consumer experience.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just your thoughts on that.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's interesting because from what we've just heard, yes, for everybody, choosing a fragrance is at the same time extremely intimate, extremely sensual, extremely powerful, and at the same time very confusing.
• 6:13
  unknown: Yeah.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: And we are used to use our brain more in an analytical way.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it's because every stimuli we receive goes through the cortex.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: So you're used to analyze the sensation you receive.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: With scent, it goes directly into your reptilian brain, which is basically the most ancient part of our brain.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: And the stimuli that we receive from smelling something immediately engage you in your instinctive reaction or your emotional reaction.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Not something you can explain, not something you can analyze, not something that you can rationalize.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's either you love it or you hate it.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's either it makes me feel good or it doesn't make me feel good.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why it becomes super confusing because we're not used to judge with our senses, and we hardly are used to judge using our, you know, sixth sense, if you will.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: The idea of having a way to curate a bit the experience based on your personality is super compelling because now instead of navigating a hundred cents, you will be able to navigate five or six, which is much more manageable.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, I've worked a lot in the science of correspondence between the senses because again, people have a hard time explaining why they like what they like.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's much easier for them to express the color they love, the food they want to eat, the music they like to listen to, etc.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: etc.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: And through that correspondence between the senses, you can curate basically what fragrance family would fit an individual.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine the power of AI giving us a fast track to that curation.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this would be absolutely amazing.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I love this idea Erin and Avener have created.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love what you said, and I think that that's where it's really interesting for me as well.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: And Avner, I'd love for you to comment on this because when we're thinking about AI, right, there's so much consumers don't know.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: We don't understand fully how AI works.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we think of AI, it's like, you know, this whole customization thing is a very new novel idea for most consumers, where it's like, well, how does it know what I want?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, especially when it comes to fragrance, because fragrance, as Veroni articulated so well, is that it's a very hit or miss thing.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, either you love it or you hate it, that kind of thing.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, what was your thought process when you guys were designing this from the RD perspective?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: How did you really program your machine to capture that?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: How does that work in terms of narrowing down your preferences?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as an engineer, I have a very structural way of thinking.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: In our field, it's called flowchart.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, as an engineer, everything that you're doing in life, you go by sequence.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the sequence is, you know, depends on the variety of outcome and inputs that you have to process.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And when you follow the flowchart properly and build the flowchart properly, then uh eventually the result will be good.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And what we did in order to understand what are the structure of the flowchart, the proper flowchart, what we did is actually we were observing, and we spent a lot of time.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Erin and I spent a lot of time of observing the process, and that means we were looking at a variety of jobs, brand jobs, multi-brand jobs, how the customers behave, how the sellers behave, what they are looking for, what are the questions that are being asked, what are the hesitations, and so on and so forth.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd like to tell you a very interesting story on that.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: When we started the uh the project, actually, it was in the middle of the COVID, and you know, the air was closed and we couldn't fly.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Many of the shops were closed.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally, when the air was opened, literally I jumped on the first plane and uh flew to London.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then Erin and I spent tens of kilometers and looking on a variety of shops, shopping centres, brand shops, and just observing.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And in the middle of Oxford Street, we went to one of the shops of one of the favorite brands of Erin, and we played like we are coming to real uh, you know, buy some some fragments for Erin.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And we spent, I don't remember it was 20 or 30 minutes, and she really wanted to buy it.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually, after we saw everything and she smelled so many, eventually we stepped out with no no buying because she couldn't make up her mind.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Surprise, surprise.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was observing on her also, and then in in the middle of Oxford Street, I yelled, really, I yelled, Eureka.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason was because I understood that everything that we did was wrong.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: The questions were not in the right sequence, some of the questions were not the right one.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then we came back to the drawing table and started to build all the algorithms from the very beginning because that's the key.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: In order to know how to narrow down the selection, we need to ask the right questions.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the fragrance world actually contains two major parts.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: One is the combination of the items that preparing the fragrance, and two, the feeling of the user.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to take all this in consideration.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's a combination of the two.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you can imagine that there are so many ways, so many alternatives.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, in order to narrow it down, we have to ask the questions properly.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we did.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's how we came up with the AI wizard.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um, based on the results that we get, and based on the feedback that we get from the market, I think that we did a good job.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, this is it's very fascinating actually, because you know, when I think about fragrance, and I think Veronique, you and I have had these conversations on our previous episodes where, you know, fragrance is very personal.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And Veronique has launched iconic fragrances, you know, and and they really capture personality, emotion.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much in her fragrances.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love to get your take on this, Veronique, in the sense of like, you know, when you're crafting a fragrance, it's more than an algorithm, right?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a very immersed experience that you go through when you're making it.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you think, I mean, what are your thoughts on that?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like that process, looking at that, and then bringing that fragrance to consumers and how that intersects with kind of this flow chart model that Avner just described, right?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts on this whole thing, this transition?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's so creating a fragrance is an act of creation, right?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: In the the the tool that you're using are the notes, the raw materials, right?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: The ingredients that you're gonna combine together.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it's the talent of the creator to combine those elements together to create something absolutely exceptional.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: The way that I work is that I always want to showcase, if you will, one of those beautiful raw materials as the hero of the story, if you will.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: But my goal is to provide the person who's gonna wear it with a sensation, a feeling, an emotion.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: For example, the vibe of Ready for Rose is fun.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's all about feeling the fun.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: The vibe of Noir Domé is all about rock and roll and feeling like you have an attitude, right?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna you're gonna give people a sensation, you're gonna transport them in a place, you're gonna transport them in a specific way of being.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Then it's a question of matching that creation with the personality of the person who's gonna wear it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Not everybody is fit for a hard rock, rock and roll attitude, right?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Not everybody wants to have fun immediately.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Some people want something else.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's a question of matching the vibe of a fragrance, the personality of a fragrance with the personality of the wearer.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where I think the technology that Erin and Avenir have put together can help.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because, with indeed the right questions, you can narrow down the spirit, the personality of a person, and then give them a choice that corresponds to that personality that they have.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna make the final choice for them.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: That I would highly say that would be very counterproductive because the connection you have with scent is unique.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: It is based on your unique journey, it is based on your unique triggers of emotional states, and that is deeply individual.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: So narrow down the choices so you avoid the confusion, but let the personality of that person, that unique personality, to express itself by the final choice of a fragrance.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because at the end of the day, fragrance speaks to the soul.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just about algorithm or trends or notes, it's really something that's gonna help reveal who you are, let you express who you are.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: And when you have that perfect match, my God, it's a love story that never ends.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's so well said.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's just so fascinating, you know, because I think oftentimes even we don't know what we want.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if this can really help people discover fragrances that are really matching very well with them, right?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's that's beautiful because many, many times I've seen this on social media, my own, you know, friends, colleagues, whoever you talk to, they're like, Yeah, I bought this new perfume.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I love it, you know, I liked it in the store, but I don't think I love it now.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so you hear that a lot and it's it makes you wonder.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, when why did you buy it?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that whole process of why do I like what I like?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then how can I really make sure that it's truly what I like?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's a very big gray area.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: If I if I may, yeah, of course.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Once you once you have a curation that corresponds more or less to your personality and you have more time to focus on less so you can really have an educated choice, I think at the end of the day, you must you must leave a little with that scent, or two or three.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because a scent will react if it's good quality scent, if if there is a lot of natural in that scent, the scent really will have chemistry with your skin.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: And now we have another layer that has nothing to do with technology or science.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: This is pure chemistry between the skin and the fragrance, and that chemistry is really what will seal the deal.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why for me I always say to people take with you two or three samples of the things you like, wear them on your skin, see how it works for you, then come back and buy.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it is not necessarily something that you can do everywhere because it's such fast paced, you know, in a store.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: But when you have that luxury of giving a minute to people to really make a right decision, they will really, really love you for it.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I love that you said that.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's truly great advice for anyone listening.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you aren't looking for a scent, yeah, you should definitely give yourself some time to think on it, you know, before you purchase.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Erin, I would love to get your feedback on all of this because I think that, you know, it's very interesting, right, from the marketing angle, because everybody's different.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, how did you guys really account for this in terms of the experience of the user?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: So when I go up to the machine and then I know that it's going to be customized for me, whatever is recommended, but then the personality component, the preferences component, how were all of these different factors narrowed down when you were creating the algorithm about of like what matters in terms of the questions that we ask?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: How did you narrow those questions down?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that when we come to the fragrance uh world, when you are a newbie, when you started to learn about fragrance, most people they don't know what they like.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: They just, oh, this smells good.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'll I'll take it.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: I like it.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: No, I don't like it.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: But for those who are already living in the fragrance world, that maybe you know, like me, I started to know learn about fragrance since I was a kid because my mom used fragrance.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I started to know some brands it happens in the toilet that my mom doesn't like, but but you you started to learn from there.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I go out with my friends, they don't know about fragrance.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: So when they go to the shop, they just random smells.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then when they talk with the shop sales, the shop sales ask them questions.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: So tell me what do you like?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what I like.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: Then the shop cells sometimes they will lead you some questions.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: Do you like flowers?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: Do you like fruit?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: You like sweets?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I noticed that most people are very vague in this sense.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: And slowly, slowly, I also noticed that many people they like to go into the fragrance world, but they don't know about how to begin.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: So the process should be more user-friendly, easy to lead people to get into learn about something that matches with their expectations, match with their feelings, and then they smell it.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: So you get the first impressions.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: Then once you have the first impression you like, then they would like to know some more.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: So that's when we're working on our questions, our algorithm, we put all these into the considerations.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: So the questions in in the first start is about you know, what are you looking for?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: You're looking for men, women, unisex, or just any.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: For those who just get into the fragrance world, and also people who come to shops, nobody knows what is unisex, nobody knows what is some others, like the new type of smells.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: But most people they know they intuitively, instinctly, I'm a man, or I should just try more men's smells.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a woman, so I will straight away so go to women's smells.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: But only those who are more sophisticated fragrance users, then they will try something else.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: They will just go to any or they will like to just go unisex.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: If I may uh add a little bit on that, you know, after 30 years developing fragrance, you obviously come also to the conclusion that people have a hard time talking about fragrance, and it's not because with something nobody can learn.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: People can learn to talk about fragrance, but again, because the connection that we have with scent comes through the reptilian brain, we are not capable of rationalizing what we feel when we smell fragrance.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've developed my own little technique, if you will, to try to understand the fragrance family that would fit an individual.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: And that is again this idea of correspondence between the senses.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: People will be able to tell you what color they prefer in the rainbow.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: People will be able to tell you what type of food they cannot resist, people will be able to tell you the type of music they like to hear or the place where they feel completely relaxed.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: From there, because of that existence between correspondence between the senses, you can narrow down the type of fragrance family that corresponds to the other choices.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that I found was a very powerful way to try to help people curate my collection of perfume for them.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it works.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so, whatever way we find to narrow down the choices is fantastic because once you have to choose only three to five, and also from my perspective, more than five cents smelled at the same time, you're lost.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: You're not, you know, you're lost.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: So you can do it by increment of three.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Three and another three, and then you narrow down to the three that you really, really, really like.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: More than that, it's a disaster because then you're completely confused.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's you know, you You teach people how to smell, you teach people how to enter that world.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And what I always say also to people is when you smell in a store, close your eyes and smell.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because by closing your eyes, you're shutting down all of the voices, all of the noises, all of the colors and the visual that's around you, and increase that confusion.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: By closing your eyes, you can connect with yourself, and whatever you smell, you're gonna smell in a much deeper fashion, and you will connect with your deeper emotions.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: And this is when you know what you truly like.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: That sensation that you receive, that little smile within yourself, in your soul, is what tells you this is the one for me.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it has nothing to do with marketing, and it has nothing to do with image, and it has nothing to do with music.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: It is what's good for me when you close your eyes.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: And those are little tricks to help people really find the right perfume for them, in my opinion.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you said that, Veronique, because immediately what comes to mind is your aroma collection.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when we first spoke about it, it was exactly what you just said for me as experiencing it for the first time.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was like it wasn't just about fragrance, it was about everything, you know, it was about everything that puts me at ease, you know, and that's what the aroma collection did for me.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was something that helped me get into a mindfulness state, you know, and it was far beyond just fragrance.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was an entire experience.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I think this becomes a very fascinating topic as well, is that for Avener and Aaron, if you guys would chime in here, is this idea of how do we make people understand that, you know, you're not just experiencing, oh, this is a smell or a scent I really like.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's something much more than that.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: How did you account for that in the way that when people are discovering fragrances through your machine, they're experiencing something that they're gonna hold on to, you know, for many years to come.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because for me, at least, perfume and anything fragrance is not just a product that you buy once, it's something that becomes a part of your life, it becomes a part of your experience.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I would love to get your thoughts on that as well.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: If I may just add two things to what was spoken about earlier with your permission, one of the uh examples for the questions, very confusing people when they are coming to the shop is the, as Erin mentioned, what do you like?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: How do I know what I like?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, based on our observation, what we learned from the observations, we don't use any open question.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: All the questions during the wizard are closed.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't ask, what do you like?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: But we give the opportunity to choose from the 15 basic smells.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if people ask us, okay, I don't know, I tell them, okay, just flow with your feeling.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then when they see the picture of the flowery or the picture of the fruity or something like that, then it's much easier for them to say, Oh, okay, you know, I think I like this and I like that.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you'll ask them as an open question, there's almost no way that they will be able to get the answer.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one point.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the other point that refers to what uh Veronica mentioned, and I really, really agree with it 100%, that with all due respect to the algorithm and with all due respect to the technology, eventually the smell is very, very personal.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I can love some smell and you will hate it.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a sophisticated answer, it's very personal.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why when the wizard finishes all its work and it comes with a recommendation, so we could stop it there, but we say no, because still there is also the personality of the person, and they have to see maybe with all the respect to the wizard, it doesn't match it.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, we are giving one recommendation plus three other alternatives which are similar to that one.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we had in our experience, we had cases that people saw the first one, the recommendation, not exactly, but okay.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, no, no, no, no, don't compromise.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want you to compromise.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Try one of the other three, and then try the other three, and in most cases, the second one will be the best.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we leave also the personality to take place in this whole process.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's really, really interesting because it's like you're giving them like a spectrum to choose from.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it falls on the same kind of wavelength, but they have some options.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's very interesting.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Very interesting.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: It is, yeah, it is, and also talk about options.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Some people they always go for the brands that they know, but fragrance are many, many different, and many different brands also offers different types of similar smells that you may like, but you just you just never have a chance to touch upon it if you go by yourself.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: But through our systems, you know, in one of the events that we did, and it comes with a few options.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: This lady she just said, Oh, I know this one, I have this one, this one I don't know about this, and I'll try.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: And after she tries, she said, Ah, I actually like it.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: But if I'm in the shop, I probably will not look at it.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: But now I know I learned something new and I actually like this one.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's so, yeah, I think that's the most fascinating part about this for me as well as a consumer, is many times, for example, I'm sure everyone can relate to this, you've had a fragrance in your collection that you absolutely love, and you're like, okay, well, I love citrus scents, right?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Something like that.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Then you go and you buy something else, and it might smell almost identical to something you've already experienced before.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: So then that leaves consumers in a very strange place because you're going out into the world trying to rediscover what you love in a new way, but then you don't find that experience, right?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: That becomes actually frustrating from the consumer standpoint because it's hard to discover new scents and the same kind of profile that you truly love without feeling like you're being redundant in your collection.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this is very, very interesting from that perspective as well, because you can then keep rediscovering things within that spectrum of what you like, the notes that you enjoy, and you know, the profiles that you've enjoyed before, but now you're also discovering newer brands and new takes on that.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: It is, and there's another funny story that there was a guy that he came and then he was just holding his phone, talking to his wife.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: He said, Hold on a second.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_03: So let me let me switch the camera.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: And he's actually doing the process for his wife, and then came out the full results.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: And he told his wife that, ah, I know, I think I know which one you like.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: He's mailed all four products for his wife, and then he told his wife that this one, this one, I'm sure that you will definitely like it.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: And his wife looked at it, yeah.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think I know that one.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: And take a picture of that one later on to go to the show to bring me.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's that's really funny.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think we all do that.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I've done that, you know, when I'm shopping for presents or something or on the holidays for somebody.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Fragrance is very difficult, actually.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very difficult area to find something someone will love, you know.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think this could definitely help in that sector as well.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Veronique, I'd love to get your opinion on this, you know, especially because now more than ever, I'm just watching the industry and I'm seeing so many niche brands are popping up every day, you know.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you believe niche or artisanal fragrance brands must do now that, you know, AI is here, things are becoming AI driven to really kind of secure their future in this digital world?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: AI will certainly accelerate a certain amount of things related to the industry.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Probably again, the capacity to choose, help the choice, the capacity to create content around the fragrances.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: We see that already.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: Probably also, if done properly, the capacity to help the process of creation by sorting out various types of raw material.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: What I think AI will not be able to do so fast, and you can never say never, right?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Is the more deeply human way that we connect with scent.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: For example, from a creative process, you can give the same set of paint colors to two individuals, exactly the same sets of colors and the same paper and the same you know set of tools, the outcome will be extremely different, right?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because now the human touch comes in, the soul comes in.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same with fragrance.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: So if you are coming into that world of artisanal perfumery, niche perfumery, luxury perfumery, first of all, know the craft, know the artistry of fragrance.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Too many products today are a bit mediocre.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: And if you are going to call yourself a luxury brand, then you have to master the craft.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: If you are going to be in that world of artisanal fragrances, then you have to bring this deeply human sense of artistry to what you do.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: So the more technology is in our world, the more as a creator you have to tap into the human aspects of creativity, and the more you have to tap into the senses.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: Again, not the cortex, not the analytics, not the thought process, the senses.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: What you're gonna feel and how you can make people feel when they smell your product or wear your clothes or whatever else it is.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: How you're gonna make people feel will make the difference.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's great advice.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I have seen that as well, where it's niche brands.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love the ambition, you know, and I love that people are trying to express themselves as brand founders and they want to bring this out.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I I agree with you.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there are a lot of examples in the market right now where it's like you smell the fragrance and you're like, I don't feel like this is finished.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's almost that's what it feels like.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Some for even the consumers, you can sense it.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I feel like there could have been more in the scent, and you could have done more with this.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I I've experienced that as a consumer, so I can imagine as truly an expert, what you're saying makes a lot of sense.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's great advice for all the new brands that are popping up these days.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you know, I just want to ask Avner and Aaron, what's next?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is a really, really innovative thing that you've done here.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you hope to see it grow?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And what do you hope this leads to for the future?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: The vision of the company and the vision why we uh started this uh venture is, and I truly believe in it.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: And Erin also truly, in all our hearts, we believe that this is going to be the new norm.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: As I mentioned at the beginning, you know, today people are uh shopping for fragrances like in the medieval time.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: The only difference is that now we have much, much, much more choices, and it's very, very hard to make a decision.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's about time to change it, and I believe that AromaSense is going to be in the near future a norm.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Every shop that are selling fragrances will have to use this.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we see that in exhibitions, people ask us, where can I find it?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: The forum must have it.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Ulta Beauty must have it.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we know.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it will be, and it will become the norm.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're talking about the in general, we don't uh stop in the shopping fragrances, but also the uh device serves as a platform for a variety of other applications, and this is good for education, you know, the smell has the longest memory.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: So imagine yourself if you study something which is involved also with smell, you'll remember it for longer term for entertainment.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we mentioned it earlier, movie with sense in the movie theaters as well as at home, video games, add sense, use the scent as part of the inputs, not just as a gimmick, but also part of the story.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Also for the medical arena, actually.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: People were aware about it during the COVID era.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: There are about 20% of the adult population suffering from anosmia, from losing their ability to smell.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is something very, very unpleasant.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the way that people are treating anosmia today is so boring that people that suffer from anosmia actually leave the process in the middle because it's so boring.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we came up based on the same platform, we came up with a different way, like a game in one hand or a movie on the other hand, and then you can actually treat the anosmia and teach the brain again how to distinguish between scents based on a very interesting way, so people will stick to it, they will not run away in the middle.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, as I said, you know, scent is part of our life, and in order to make it more usable, I believe that IromaSense is the tool to make people use it more and more, and definitely for the uh shopping of scents.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: This has been so educational for me, and I know for everyone listening out there, if you guys are intrigued by the use of AI in fragrance or in any industry, we'd love to hear from you.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Please chime in.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you so much, Veronique, Avner, Aaron.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for your time.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: This has been a lovely conversation.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Igna.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 35:09
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