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Google Makes Paper Packaging Work: Packaging World · Through the Line: Packaging and Processing

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Through the Line, a podcast exploring innovations and information across the packaging and processing landscape.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: From topics impacting consumer packaged goods and healthcare packaging to the latest technologies in food processing operations.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, I'm Anne-Marie Mohan.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm senior editor with Packaging World.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm here with Joey Giacomini.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: He is the packaging design engineer lead at Google.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: And Joey just spoke on a panel about paperization, which is a huge topic and generating a lot of interest and enthusiasm right now.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: So he's going, he's joining us to tell us a little more about some of the points he raised during the panel discussion.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: And first of all, I think what's amazing is that in 2020, Google announced that it wanted to go plastic-free with its hardware packaging by 2025.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: And you just told me that you were able to do that by 2024.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: First off, thank you, Anne, for having me.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's great to be here and talk about some fun stuff like packaging.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: When I spoke about it, we didn't start off from all plastic, of course.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: But when we kicked this initiative off, we were already at 94% fiber-based packaging.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the challenge has really been that last 6%.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Where a lot of that has resided in things like protective things or even just industry commodities.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you look at like a hang tab, for example, those are traditionally plastic.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at some protective measures, that would be your shrink wrap, maybe protective product labels, device wraps, and even plastic tape in the corners of these rigid boxes.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really going line item by line item and trying to see if we can find solutions for each of those places we were using plastic.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: 6% doesn't seem like a lot.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was quite challenging, but I think we were fortunate to start off in a good spot.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that allowed us to actually reach our goal a year early, which we're really proud of.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess I'd like to step back just for a minute.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: Why plastic free?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think probably some people at the conference could argue that plastic isn't such a bad thing.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Why was it important for Google to make that transition away from plastic?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I I think you make a good point.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Plastic is ubiquitous in the industry.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we're here saying plastic is even inherently not a sustainable material.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think what we're trying to avoid is mixing materials.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because it gets really confusing for the end user.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if you think of traditionally in a rigid box construction like this, it would typically have what a PP lamination on it and a shrink wrap, and there's all these films that don't work very well in the recycling streams.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the way we looked at it is we don't have a huge need for a barrier like food industry or even pharmaceuticals.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So for us, getting rid of plastic, getting to a more fiber-based solution really simplifies things to a single stream for our for our end user.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And again, nodding to using a more natural uncoated material, I think removes a little bit of this hesitation of is this recyclable in the first place?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that makes a lot of sense.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: And we talked about, or you talked about in your panel presentation, and this is something I found really interesting, is that when people think about a consumer electronics product, they've got in mind this white perceived package that's been the norm.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: But you wanted to step away from that in some ways to showcase your sustainability, but also because you didn't want that polycoded paper.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you were just saying that these constraints that Google you put on yourself to be plastic free was a constraint.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: And yet it led to some really interesting innovation.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Could you talk a little bit about that?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think I spoke about the industry.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: When you think about what is premium, often folks will think about white pristine box, white pristine molded fiber tray.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's been the norm.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we felt like having this more natural look and feel not only helps guide you to, hey, this is a sustainable material, this is a recyclable material, but something about the imperfections and our speckled mold-fiber tray with the recycled newspaper in it, this Kylie top sheet.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: We really like the look and feel.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then getting to what you asked about, did we find some advantages by, in essence, working through these plastic-free constraints?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the answer is yes.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So this Kylie paper, I think, is like our super paper, our superpower.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: We found it to be stronger than what we used historically and even 70% more stretchable in the machine direction.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So what we've noticed now after using this and testing it is we're able to actually use a lighter gram weight.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if historically we've used a 200 gram sun paper, for example, we've been able to actually get 160 gram Kylie paper to work for us.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of takes the whole system, reduces some weight, and then again gives us that nice look and feel.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Another kind of constraint that I actually just thought of now is historically we use plastic tape in the corners of these rigid boxes, which would make it a little bit challenging to break it down.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now we've transitioned to uh we we use a paper tape, it's a billarude paper tape, a BK paper tape, which is 120 GSM.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually quite easy to snap the corner and lock knock it down flat.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So then if an end user does want to like flatten KDF everything to fit into the recycling, it's it's an easier process.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's things we've found along the way of pursuing sustainability that's made us better as a whole.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been fun.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: And all that RD and all that effort, you then put in a guide, a design guide, the plastic-free packaging design guide, which is available and downloadable for other brands or for anyone, basically.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I would suspect a lot of companies would say that's our proprietary information.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Why did Google decide to share that?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think what when we've thought about sustainability, something that's resonated with us is it's not a competition.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's really meant to be collaborative.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we've seen this at this conference today and speaking with the other panel members is it's meant to be collaborative.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Rising tide lifts all boats, all ships.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted to see if we could guide the industry and I think what we believe to be the right direction, give folks the tools, be transparent.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: We really were glad that we could get leadership behind this.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it makes us all better.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's better for the planet.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: And with we're not saying we're necessarily the expert of the industry.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's a ton of experts here, but I think we can give our story and make everyone better for it.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we've seen some other guides come out recently.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think I alluded to Microsoft's accessibility guide, which has been really interesting to learn from and look at.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to more collaboration across the industry.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to Through the Line Packaging and Processing.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: You can listen to more episodes on all streaming platforms.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to visit us at packworld.com, profoodworld.com, and healthcarepackaging.com for more packaging and processing news.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast was edited by Brady Guns.