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13-Year-Old Vanishes After Finding Disturbing Photos of His Dad · Murder Files Unsealed

0:00
Speaker 1: Imagine a 13-year-old boy terrified to visit his father for Thanksgiving.
0:05
Speaker 2: Right.
0:06
Speaker 1: And he's secretly armed with these photographs that are so devastating.
0:10
Speaker 1: They will just, you know, completely invert the power dynamic
0:12
Speaker 1: of his entire family.
0:13
Speaker 2: It's a terrifying scenario.
0:15
Speaker 1: Yeah. And ultimately, tragically, cost him his life. Welcome to
0:20
Speaker 1: today's Deep Dive. We are looking at a situation where
0:24
Speaker 1: a routine court-ordered holiday visitation doesn't just go off the rails.
0:29
Speaker 1: But it spirals into this decade-long mystery.
0:31
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
0:32
Speaker 1: We're talking about a case fueled by really dark, deeply
0:36
Speaker 1: guarded secrets, bizarre national television appearances that just defy all
0:41
Speaker 1: logical sense.
0:41
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. The TV appearances are wild.
0:43
Speaker 1: Right. And this massive forensic puzzle scattered across the unforgiving
0:48
Speaker 1: freezing terrain of the Colorado mountains. It is.
0:50
Speaker 2: It's the absolute definition of a domestic nightmare. And what
0:53
Speaker 2: we are examining today is the deeply complex case of
0:56
Speaker 2: 13-year-old Dylan Redwine.
0:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, such a tragic story.
0:59
Speaker 2: It really is. We are relying entirely on the transcripts,
1:03
Speaker 2: the investigative records, and the evidence presented in the killer
1:07
Speaker 2: cases documentary material. Our mission here is to really analyze
1:11
Speaker 2: the behavioral clues, you know, the specific tactical interrogation methods
1:16
Speaker 2: used by law enforcement, and the courtroom strategies that led
1:19
Speaker 2: to a conviction.
1:20
Speaker 1: Which is fascinating because, you know, this is about how
1:24
Speaker 1: a case is built from the ground up. Largely on
1:26
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence, right?
1:28
Speaker 2: Exactly. When the physical evidence is actively being hidden by
1:32
Speaker 2: the suspect. Right.
1:33
Speaker 1: And I am approaching this from the perspective of an investigator,
1:36
Speaker 1: but also just, you know, as a human being trying
1:39
Speaker 1: to comprehend a family's total destruction.
1:42
Speaker 2: For sure.
1:43
Speaker 1: Because this isn't just a true crime story for you
1:45
Speaker 1: to listen to. It's a psychological labyrinth. And the starting
1:48
Speaker 1: point of that labyrinth is November 18th, 2012.
1:51
Speaker 2: Right. The day Dylan flies into Durango.
1:53
Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. Dylan Redwine flies into Durango, Colorado. And to
1:57
Speaker 1: understand the gravity of this day, we really have to
1:59
Speaker 1: establish the context of this visit.
2:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, the context is everything here.
2:03
Speaker 1: It really is. Because this was not a happy, warm
2:06
Speaker 1: family reunion. This was a mandatory, court-ordered visitation for the
2:10
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving holiday. And Dylan vehemently did not want to go.
2:16
Speaker 2: No, he didn't. And the reasoning behind his reluctance is
2:19
Speaker 2: just heartbreaking. It adds this profound layer of tragedy to
2:22
Speaker 2: the whole timeline.
2:23
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:24
Speaker 2: His grandmother, Elaine's mother, was battling severe cancer.
2:29
Speaker 1: Oh, wow. Right.
2:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the entire family was acutely aware that this
2:33
Speaker 2: was highly likely going to be her final Thanksgiving.
2:36
Speaker 1: Which is just devastating for a kid.
2:38
Speaker 2: Exactly. Dylan, who by all accounts was a highly empathetic 13-year-old,
2:43
Speaker 2: he desperately wanted to spend that precious time with his
2:46
Speaker 2: grandmother and his friends back home.
2:47
Speaker 1: Right. Of course he did.
2:48
Speaker 2: But his mother, Elaine, was bound by the rigid constraints
2:52
Speaker 2: of the family court system.
2:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember from the source material, she actually called
2:55
Speaker 1: her lawyer, just pleading to see if there was any
2:58
Speaker 1: legal loophole, like any way out of this mandated visit.
3:01
Speaker 2: And what did the lawyer say?
3:02
Speaker 1: The lawyer just gave her the cold reality.
3:04
Speaker 2: Yeah.
3:04
Speaker 1: Like, it is a court order. If you do not
3:06
Speaker 1: put him on that plane, you are in contempt of court.
3:08
Speaker 2: Wow. So you have a teenager forced into this highly
3:11
Speaker 2: stressful environment he desperately wants to avoid.
3:14
Speaker 1: Exactly. And the tension is palpable the second he lands.
3:18
Speaker 1: According to the accounts of that airport arrival, the atmosphere
3:22
Speaker 1: was just freezing.
3:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, the documentary noted there were no smiles.
3:26
Speaker 1: No smiles, no hugs between Dylan and his father, Mark Redwine.
3:29
Speaker 1: It is just this purely mechanical exchange.
3:32
Speaker 2: And Dylan's behavior in those initial hours is highly instructive
3:35
Speaker 2: for us. He is physically present because the law demands it, right?
3:40
Speaker 1: Right, but mentally he's gone.
3:41
Speaker 2: Exactly. Emotionally and psychologically, he is entirely disengaged from Mark.
3:46
Speaker 2: We see this play out immediately at their very first stop.
3:49
Speaker 1: The Walmart, right?
3:50
Speaker 2: Yeah. They stop at a local Walmart in Durango to
3:52
Speaker 2: buy some DVDs.
3:54
Speaker 1: And if you analyze the surveillance footage from that Walmart,
3:57
Speaker 1: it completely contradicts the image of a father and son
4:01
Speaker 1: bonding over movie choices to kick off a holiday.
4:04
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Mark is just wandering around doing his own thing.
4:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. And Dylan is glued to his cell phone. He
4:10
Speaker 1: is actively texting his friend Ryan. He is already strategizing
4:15
Speaker 1: his exit.
4:15
Speaker 2: Setting up a sleepover at Ryan's house for the very
4:18
Speaker 2: next morning at 6.30 a.m.
4:20
Speaker 1: Right, like setting an exit plan for 6.30 in the
4:22
Speaker 1: morning on the first day of a holiday break.
4:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
4:25
Speaker 1: That speaks volumes about his internal state of mind.
4:28
Speaker 2: It really does. He is essentially treating Mark's house not
4:31
Speaker 2: as a home, but as a waiting room.
4:33
Speaker 1: Exactly, a waiting room. He just needs to survive the
4:36
Speaker 1: night until he can escape. So after the Walmart trip,
4:39
Speaker 1: they grab a hamburger and then proceed to Mark's house.
4:43
Speaker 2: And Mark later claimed in his statements to investigators that, well,
4:46
Speaker 2: you know, while the initial greeting was cold, they started
4:48
Speaker 2: roughhousing and getting along later that evening.
4:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, I find that word roughhousing completely chilling.
4:54
Speaker 2: Especially when you know the forensic reality of what happens
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Speaker 2: next in that living room.
4:58
Speaker 1: Right. But looking at the undeniable digital timeline, at exactly 9.46 p.m.
5:04
Speaker 1: that night, Dylan's phone just stops transmitting.
5:07
Speaker 2: It just goes dead.
5:08
Speaker 1: All communication abruptly ceases mid-conversation. And he never shows up
5:13
Speaker 1: at his friend Ryan's house at 6.30 the next morning.
5:16
Speaker 2: And Ryan, being a good friend, actually set his alarm,
5:19
Speaker 2: woke up early, and waited.
5:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing happens. No Dylan.
5:23
Speaker 2: So the alarm bells begin ringing almost instantly the following day.
5:27
Speaker 2: Mark sends a text to Elaine stating he cannot find Dylan.
5:30
Speaker 1: And Elaine's reaction is just immediate visceral terror.
5:33
Speaker 2: Well, absolutely. She tells him her son hasn't even been
5:36
Speaker 2: in that town for 24 hours and he is already missing.
5:39
Speaker 1: She knows her son's baseline behavior, you know. A 13-year-old
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Speaker 1: boy in 2012 does not simply run off into freezing
5:45
Speaker 1: mountains without texting his mother or his older brother, Corey,
5:48
Speaker 1: or the friend he was actively making plans with.
5:51
Speaker 2: No, never. So she immediately gets into her car and
5:54
Speaker 2: drives six grueling hours straight to Durango.
5:56
Speaker 1: Which brings us to Mark's behavior. It instantly transitions from
6:00
Speaker 1: like a distant, maybe alienated father to someone actively exhibiting
6:05
Speaker 1: really suspicious, deceptive patterns.
6:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's unpack that. Elaine arrives in Durango. She is
6:12
Speaker 2: out searching the terrain, and we really need to stress
6:15
Speaker 2: the geography.
6:16
Speaker 1: Here for you. Oh yeah, the terrain is brutal.
6:18
Speaker 2: The area around Durango is some of the most unforgiving, steep,
6:22
Speaker 2: rugged country in North America. She is out searching until
6:27
Speaker 2: 1230 or 1.00 in the morning.
6:29
Speaker 1: And the temperatures are plunging well below freezing. So what
6:33
Speaker 1: is Mark doing while his young son is lost in
6:36
Speaker 1: a frozen wilderness?
6:37
Speaker 2: He returns home, goes inside, and turns off all the
6:40
Speaker 2: lights in his house.
6:41
Speaker 1: He goes to sleep. I mean, his child is missing
6:43
Speaker 1: in the freezing mountains and he plunges the house into darkness.
6:47
Speaker 2: Yeah. Elaine specifically noted to investigators how bizarre and contradictory
6:51
Speaker 2: this was.
6:52
Speaker 1: She pointed out a very basic human instinct. Like if
6:55
Speaker 1: someone you love is lost in the dark, you light
6:58
Speaker 1: up your house like a lighthouse beacon.
6:59
Speaker 2: Right. You want them to see the glow from a distance.
7:02
Speaker 1: You want to guide them back. But Mark shut the
7:05
Speaker 1: entire operation down. He didn't come out to help her.
7:08
Speaker 1: He didn't even speak to her.
7:09
Speaker 2: And this is where forensic psychology looks closely at behavioral baselines.
7:14
Speaker 2: In a crisis scenario, especially one involving a missing child,
7:18
Speaker 2: parents generally exhibit a very specific set of frantic, exhaustive behaviors.
7:23
Speaker 1: Right. Like they can't sleep.
7:24
Speaker 2: Exactly. They suffer from extreme insomnia. They leave every light on.
7:29
Speaker 2: They leave the doors unlocked. They pace. They hyperventilate.
7:32
Speaker 1: Yeah.
7:32
Speaker 2: Mark's behavior of simply turning off the lights and going
7:35
Speaker 2: to bed is entirely inconsistent with the psychological profile of
7:39
Speaker 2: a frantic, innocent parent.
7:41
Speaker 1: It really is. But it didn't stop at passive disengagement.
7:44
Speaker 1: It rapidly escalated into active misdirection.
7:48
Speaker 2: Oh, the misdirection is key here.
7:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, it reminds me of a magician pulling a fast
7:51
Speaker 1: one on the audience. You know, a magician gets you
7:54
Speaker 1: to focus intensely on their left hand so you're completely
7:56
Speaker 1: blind to what the right hand is doing.
7:58
Speaker 2: That's a great analogy.
7:59
Speaker 1: Mark began actively pushing the volunteer searchers. And we are
8:03
Speaker 1: talking about hundreds of people combing the area to focus
8:06
Speaker 1: their physical efforts around a specific location called Mountain Lake Dam.
8:10
Speaker 2: Which sits about seven miles away from his house.
8:13
Speaker 1: Right. And his justification for directing resources to this specific
8:17
Speaker 1: dam was incredibly detailed.
8:19
Speaker 2: Yeah. He told the investigators and the civilian searchers that
8:22
Speaker 2: Dylan was this big fisherman, that he absolutely loved to
8:25
Speaker 2: fish at that specific lake.
8:27
Speaker 1: And crucially, Mark claimed that Dylan's favorite fishing pole was
8:30
Speaker 1: missing from the house.
8:32
Speaker 2: Right. And if you are a searcher operating on limited information,
8:35
Speaker 2: that logic tracks perfectly. A missing boy plus a missing
8:39
Speaker 2: fishing pole equals an immediate need to search the water.
8:42
Speaker 1: Except the terrain around that specific dam is phenomenally treacherous.
8:46
Speaker 2: It's basically a cliff.
8:48
Speaker 1: Yeah. A volunteer named Kathy Berry described it on the
8:50
Speaker 1: documentary video. Right. The road running along the lake doesn't
8:53
Speaker 1: gently slope down to a beach. It drops straight down.
8:57
Speaker 2: Just a sheer vertical cliff face plunging into deep water.
9:00
Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. You have all these well-meaning volunteers risking their
9:04
Speaker 1: own physical safety, burning thousands of man-hours and invaluable investigative resources,
9:09
Speaker 1: meticulously scanning this steep, dangerous drop-off in freezing temperatures.
9:13
Speaker 2: And that massive deployment of resources was based entirely on
9:16
Speaker 2: a manufactured lie.
9:18
Speaker 1: We know definitively it was a lie, right?
9:20
Speaker 2: Yes, because later in the investigation, Mark contacted police claiming
9:24
Speaker 2: he was simply moving his four-wheeler out of his garage...
9:28
Speaker 2: And miraculously found the missing fishing pole.
9:32
Speaker 1: Wait, OK, I have to challenge that for a second.
9:34
Speaker 1: If the police are searching the house of a missing child,
9:38
Speaker 1: wouldn't they just tear the garage apart?
9:40
Speaker 2: You would think so.
9:41
Speaker 1: Right. So how do the cops know for absolute certainty
9:44
Speaker 1: that the fishing pole wasn't just buried under a tarp
9:47
Speaker 1: or shift behind a toolbox? And Mark actually did just
9:50
Speaker 1: stumble upon it later.
9:52
Speaker 2: It is a really vital question regarding crime scene processing. See,
9:57
Speaker 2: when law enforcement executes a thorough search, even in the
9:59
Speaker 2: early stages of a missing persons case, they do not
10:02
Speaker 2: just casually look around. They document the spatial reality of
10:06
Speaker 2: a scene photographically and on video. The garage had already
10:09
Speaker 2: been meticulously searched, cataloged, and photographed by trained technicians.
10:13
Speaker 1: Ah, so they had proof.
10:14
Speaker 2: Exactly. They had the visual proof that the fishing pole
10:17
Speaker 2: was absolutely not in that location during the initial search.
10:21
Speaker 2: Mark had placed it there later.
10:22
Speaker 1: Wow. So this lie regarding the fishing pole was a
10:25
Speaker 1: massive turning point for the investigators.
10:27
Speaker 2: It was the first provable documented indicator of his deception.
10:32
Speaker 2: It demonstrated that he was not a confused, grieving father.
10:35
Speaker 2: He was an individual actively attempting to control the narrative
10:39
Speaker 2: and divert physical search resources away from his immediate vicinity.
10:43
Speaker 1: He is deliberately pointing everyone toward a dangerous dam to
10:47
Speaker 1: buy himself the one thing a killer needs most. Time.
10:51
Speaker 2: Time to clean. Time to think. Time to let the
10:53
Speaker 2: weather destroy the evidence.
10:54
Speaker 1: Exactly. But this complex, deceptive behavior doesn't just spawn out
10:59
Speaker 1: of nowhere from a sudden panic. To genuinely understand the
11:02
Speaker 1: mechanism of why Dylan disappeared on that specific November night,
11:06
Speaker 1: we really have to rewind the timeline.
11:08
Speaker 2: We do. We have to examine the deeply damaged psychological
11:12
Speaker 2: architecture of this father-son relationship.
11:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the highly explosive secret that Dylan had uncovered.
11:17
Speaker 2: This brings us to a fundamental shift in the power
11:19
Speaker 2: dynamic of the Redwine family. The dynamic between Mark and
11:22
Speaker 2: his sons had fundamentally inverted long before that Thanksgiving visitation.
11:26
Speaker 1: Right. The catalyst for that irreversible shift occurred during a
11:31
Speaker 1: prior trip the boys took with Mark to Cleveland.
11:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's set that scene.
11:35
Speaker 1: Mark was already operating on the defensive. long before the
11:38
Speaker 1: police arrived. And that defensiveness started months earlier in a
11:43
Speaker 1: hotel room in Cleveland. Dylan and his older brother Corey
11:47
Speaker 1: are in this room with Mark.
11:49
Speaker 2: And Mark falls asleep. Right.
11:51
Speaker 1: The boys, just being bored teenagers, borrow his laptop. And
11:55
Speaker 1: as anyone who has ever shared a family computer or
11:57
Speaker 1: borrowed a device knows, you can easily stumble onto digital
12:00
Speaker 1: footprints you were never meant to see.
12:02
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
12:03
Speaker 1: But what these boys found was beyond any normal, embarrassing
12:06
Speaker 1: parental secret. they uncovered a deleted file containing photographs of
12:10
Speaker 1: their father.
12:11
Speaker 2: And we must be highly specific about what these photographs depicted,
12:15
Speaker 2: based strictly on the accounts entered into the trial record
12:17
Speaker 2: and Corey's direct testimony.
12:19
Speaker 1: Because it's a huge part of the motive.
12:21
Speaker 2: Yes. These were not simply embarrassing or slightly awkward photos.
12:25
Speaker 2: They were deeply disturbing and highly graphic. The images showed
12:29
Speaker 2: Mark fully dressed in women's clothing, wearing pantyhose and wearing
12:33
Speaker 2: a diaper.
12:34
Speaker 1: And it gets worse. It does.
12:36
Speaker 2: The most graphic and traumatizing aspect of the photos was
12:39
Speaker 2: that he was photographed actively consuming feces from that diaper.
12:43
Speaker 1: I mean, I am trying to place myself in the
12:45
Speaker 1: psychological headspace of a 13-year-old kid.
12:48
Speaker 2: It's hard to even imagine.
12:49
Speaker 1: You are looking at your father, you know, the man
12:52
Speaker 1: who dictates your life, who is supposed to be your
12:55
Speaker 1: primary authority figure and moral compass. And you are confronted
13:00
Speaker 1: with that image.
13:01
Speaker 2: Corey described his reaction as utter paralyzing horror. He stated
13:06
Speaker 2: it was a place his mind had never even dreamed
13:08
Speaker 2: of going.
13:08
Speaker 1: And in that acute moment of shock, Corey does something
13:12
Speaker 1: that changes the trajectory of all their lives.
13:14
Speaker 2: Right.
13:15
Speaker 1: He pulls out his cell phone and takes photographs of
13:17
Speaker 1: the laptop screen. He physically captures the digital evidence.
13:20
Speaker 2: That split-second decision by Corey to photograph the glowing screen
13:24
Speaker 2: is the pivot point of the entire case.
13:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is.
13:27
Speaker 2: It took a fleeting, easily deniable, traumatizing moment and transmuted
13:32
Speaker 2: it into permanent, undeniable leverage. Initially, Corey told Dylan they
13:37
Speaker 2: had to bury it. They needed to keep it strictly
13:39
Speaker 2: between them.
13:39
Speaker 1: Because he was terrified.
13:40
Speaker 2: Right. Exactly. Terrified of Mark knowing they had seen this
13:44
Speaker 2: deeply hidden side of him. But Dylan, according to the
13:47
Speaker 2: psychological profiles provided by his mother and brother, was not
13:51
Speaker 2: biologically wired to simply sit quietly with something that disturbed
13:54
Speaker 2: him to that degree.
13:55
Speaker 1: No, Dylan's personality was described as highly outspoken. He was
13:59
Speaker 1: brutally honest. He got straight to the point and he
14:02
Speaker 1: never held back his opinions.
14:03
Speaker 2: Right.
14:04
Speaker 1: So you have a situation where a father is continually
14:07
Speaker 1: trying to dictate how his teenage sons should behave, you know,
14:11
Speaker 1: lecturing them on morality and life choices.
14:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.
14:14
Speaker 1: And all the while, Dylan is sitting there with this
14:17
Speaker 1: absolute thermonuclear bomb of a secret in his back pocket.
14:21
Speaker 2: The authority structure of the family inverted instantly. Mark would
14:25
Speaker 2: attempt to discipline Dylan or engage in arguments about setting
14:27
Speaker 2: a good example, and Dylan now possessed highly graphic material
14:31
Speaker 2: that completely stripped Mark of any moral high ground.
14:33
Speaker 1: Or dignity or parental authority.
14:35
Speaker 2: Exactly. Corey testified under oath that Dylan eventually asked him
14:39
Speaker 2: to send those cell phone pictures to him. And Corey complied.
14:43
Speaker 2: He transmitted the photos directly to Dylan's phone.
14:45
Speaker 1: Dylan essentially armed himself for battle. Corey noted that it
14:50
Speaker 1: was Dylan's way of gaining some tangible power so he
14:52
Speaker 1: could finally go toe-to-toe with his dad.
14:54
Speaker 2: Dylan actually referred to those specific photos as a weapon.
14:58
Speaker 1: Wow. And against a man with a fragile ego, that
15:02
Speaker 1: is a lethal weapon.
15:03
Speaker 2: It really is.
15:04
Speaker 1: But I have to ask the logical question here. If
15:07
Speaker 1: Dylan possessed this weapon for months and had likely deployed
15:11
Speaker 1: it in verbal arguments before, why did the situation escalate
15:15
Speaker 1: to physical murder on this specific night in November? Like,
15:19
Speaker 1: what was the mechanical trigger?
15:20
Speaker 2: That is the central psychological question of the entire investigation.
15:24
Speaker 2: It boils down to the concept of a psychological breaking
15:27
Speaker 2: point within an enclosed environment.
15:29
Speaker 1: Okay, lay that out for us.
15:30
Speaker 2: You have a 13-year-old boy asserting absolute undeniable power over
15:34
Speaker 2: a 50-year-old man. Dylan vehemently did not want to be
15:37
Speaker 2: in that house. He was angry, resentful, tired, and likely
15:41
Speaker 2: pushing back against any instruction Mark gave him.
15:44
Speaker 1: Right.
15:44
Speaker 2: Mark, conversely, was likely attempting to reassert dominance and control
15:48
Speaker 2: over a son who was openly defying him, ignoring him
15:51
Speaker 2: to text his friend. In that small enclosed living room,
15:54
Speaker 2: under the intense pressure of a forced holiday visit, if
15:57
Speaker 2: Dylan pulled out his phone, showed those photos, or verbally
16:01
Speaker 2: referenced them to shut his father's lecturing down, for a
16:05
Speaker 2: man possessing Mark's evident ego and narcissism, that specific level
16:09
Speaker 2: of humiliation, emasculation, and loss of control represents an unbearable
16:15
Speaker 2: psychological threat.
16:16
Speaker 1: Right, because he can't control the narrative anymore. Exactly.
16:18
Speaker 2: Exactly. The prosecution's behavioral theory was that this confrontation resulted
16:22
Speaker 2: in a sudden, catastrophic, and violently physical rage.
16:26
Speaker 1: It is the moment the dam completely breaks.
16:28
Speaker 2: Oh.
16:28
Speaker 1: And we know definitively from his subsequent actions that Mark
16:32
Speaker 1: was hyper-fixated on his public image and controlling the narrative.
16:35
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
16:36
Speaker 1: Which makes the family's next move so utterly baffling. I mean,
16:40
Speaker 1: Dylan is missing. The massive mountain search is yielding nothing.
16:43
Speaker 1: The family is entirely fractured, publicly pointing fingers at one another.
16:46
Speaker 2: Right.
16:47
Speaker 1: And in the midst of this chaos, Elaine, Corey, and
16:49
Speaker 1: Mark all agree to travel and appear on national television.
16:53
Speaker 1: They go on The Dr. Phil Show.
16:54
Speaker 2: From a tactical legal perspective, this is one of the
16:57
Speaker 2: most surreal and self-destructive chapters in modern true crime history.
17:02
Speaker 1: It's just wild.
17:03
Speaker 2: Voluntarily appearing on national television when you are a primary
17:07
Speaker 2: person of interest in a missing child case is universally
17:11
Speaker 2: considered a disastrous tactical error. Any defense attorney will tell
17:15
Speaker 2: you to remain silent.
17:16
Speaker 1: Of course.
17:17
Speaker 2: But Mark's deeply ingrained arrogance and narcissism seemingly convinced him
17:21
Speaker 2: that his intellect was superior to law enforcement, to his family,
17:26
Speaker 2: and to a national television audience.
17:28
Speaker 1: Let's really analyze the mechanics of this broadcast.
17:30
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:30
Speaker 1: Elaine and Corey are sitting on that stage and Corey
17:33
Speaker 1: drops the bomb. He publicly exposes the secret of the
17:36
Speaker 1: photos on national TV.
17:38
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:38
Speaker 1: Now, a normal guilty person might simply deny the photos exist, right?
17:43
Speaker 1: Or claim it's a Photoshop job done by an angry ex-wife.
17:45
Speaker 2: Right. Something like that.
17:46
Speaker 1: But Mark's defense, he offers an excuse that makes him
17:49
Speaker 1: look exponentially more unhinged than if he had just admitted
17:53
Speaker 1: to a strange fetish. He actually admits his face is
17:56
Speaker 1: in the photographs, but he claims he intentionally fabricated the
17:59
Speaker 1: photos himself.
18:00
Speaker 2: His specific televised claim was a masterpiece of convoluted logic.
18:05
Speaker 1: It really was.
18:06
Speaker 2: He stated that he firmly believed Elaine and Corey were
18:09
Speaker 2: secretly rummaging through his personal belongings and digital files whenever
18:13
Speaker 2: he traveled out of town.
18:14
Speaker 1: Okay.
18:15
Speaker 2: Therefore, in order to catch them in the act, or
18:17
Speaker 2: perhaps to psychologically punish them for snooping, he concocted this
18:22
Speaker 2: grand scheme. He claimed he intentionally digitally created these outrageously
18:28
Speaker 2: grotesque images of himself in a diaper-eating feces.
18:31
Speaker 1: Which is just why.
18:32
Speaker 2: And purposely left them highly accessible on his computer. His
18:35
Speaker 2: stated goal was that they would find a scenario so
18:37
Speaker 2: deeply outrageous that they would be forced to talk about it,
18:41
Speaker 2: thereby proving they were snooping.
18:42
Speaker 1: I mean, I need to break down the sheer absurdity
18:44
Speaker 1: of this defense mechanism. His argument to the American public
18:48
Speaker 1: is essentially, I am not a murderer and I do
18:50
Speaker 1: not actually consume feces out of a diaper. I just
18:53
Speaker 1: spent hours digitally manipulating photographs to make it appear as
18:56
Speaker 1: though I consume feces out of a diaper, specifically to
18:59
Speaker 1: teach my ex-wife and teenage son a lesson about respecting
19:03
Speaker 1: my digital privacy.
19:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was his defense.
19:05
Speaker 1: In what universe does a human being think that is
19:08
Speaker 1: a winning public relations argument? Like, Why on earth would
19:12
Speaker 1: a guilty man voluntarily sit under studio lights and offer
19:15
Speaker 1: an excuse that completely incinerates whatever hiney shred of reputation
19:20
Speaker 1: he has left?
19:21
Speaker 2: It perfectly illustrates a profound level of narcissism and a
19:24
Speaker 2: complete detachment from how the general public processes logical information.
19:29
Speaker 1: Oh, sure.
19:30
Speaker 2: In Mark's mind, his lie was incredibly clever. He believed
19:34
Speaker 2: he had constructed a narrative that neatly explained to Faye
19:37
Speaker 2: the unexplainable physical evidence of the photos. Right. But what
19:40
Speaker 2: it mechanically achieved, as investigator Tanya Gree later articulated, was
19:45
Speaker 2: to drag Mark right into the blinding center of the
19:48
Speaker 2: investigative controversy. Mark genuinely thought the Dr. Phil appearance would
19:51
Speaker 2: exonerate him in the court of public opinion.
19:53
Speaker 1: It did the exact opposite.
19:55
Speaker 2: Instead, it provided a massive, unedited public forum for the
19:59
Speaker 2: core accusation, and it handed law enforcement a clearly televised motive.
20:03
Speaker 2: Investigators immediately obtained the raw tapes from the show as evidence.
20:07
Speaker 2: He didn't clear his name. He painted a giant glowing
20:09
Speaker 2: target on his own back.
20:10
Speaker 1: He truly believed he was outsmarting everyone. But the authorities
20:14
Speaker 1: in Colorado were absolutely ready to escalate the pressure.
20:17
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they were done playing around.
20:19
Speaker 1: They pivot from treating him as a peripheral person of
20:21
Speaker 1: interest to treating him as their prime targeted suspect.
20:25
Speaker 2: And that operational transition is marked by the introduction of
20:28
Speaker 2: intense tactical pressure, beginning systematically with the deployment of polygraph examinations. Right.
20:35
Speaker 1: Both parents are asked to take a polygraph. Elaine takes
20:38
Speaker 1: hers and passes without issue. Mark fails his, and he
20:42
Speaker 1: doesn't just fail on a technicality.
20:44
Speaker 2: No, investigator Tom Cowing informs Mark that he failed it miserably.
20:48
Speaker 1: Miserably.
20:49
Speaker 2: And specifically, he showed massive deception on the single most
20:53
Speaker 2: critical question of the entire test, which was, Do you
20:56
Speaker 2: know where Dylan is?
20:57
Speaker 1: Let's dissect Investigator Cowley's specific strategy during this subsequent interrogation,
21:02
Speaker 1: because it is a masterclass in a psychological technique called minimization.
21:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, minimization is powerful.
21:07
Speaker 1: Cowley does not walk into that interrogation room, slam his
21:10
Speaker 1: hands on the table, and accuse Mark of being a cold-blooded,
21:13
Speaker 1: premeditated child killer.
21:15
Speaker 2: If he did that, Mark's biological defense mechanisms would trigger immediately.
21:20
Speaker 2: He would ask for a lawyer and shut down the interview.
21:23
Speaker 1: Exactly. Instead... Howing offers him a psychological and moral escape hatch.
21:28
Speaker 1: He tells Mark, if you lead us to him, I
21:31
Speaker 1: absolutely guarantee you that I would not arrest you today.
21:34
Speaker 2: He offers him a lifeline wrapped in empathy.
21:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, he says something along the lines of, look, if
21:40
Speaker 1: he fell down accidentally and hurt himself and you just
21:42
Speaker 1: freaked out and panicked, it's better to get in front
21:45
Speaker 1: of this right now.
21:46
Speaker 2: He is purposefully giving Mark a narrative where Mark is
21:49
Speaker 2: not a monster. He is just a normal, relatable guy
21:52
Speaker 2: who made a tragic mistake in the heat of the
21:53
Speaker 2: moment and panicked, as anyone might. Right.
21:56
Speaker 1: The message is, just tell us where his body is
21:59
Speaker 1: and we will sort out the messy details later.
22:01
Speaker 2: Exactly. Biologically, the minimization technique is designed to lower the
22:05
Speaker 2: suspect's cortisol levels. It attempts to bypass their rigid defenses
22:10
Speaker 2: by minimizing the moral and legal weight of the crime.
22:13
Speaker 2: It allows the suspect to confess to a lesser evil,
22:16
Speaker 2: an accident, rather than a horrific murder.
22:18
Speaker 1: But I have to ask, doesn't that technique run the
22:21
Speaker 1: risk of producing false confessions? Like, if you promise someone
22:25
Speaker 1: they won't be arrested today if they just agree to
22:27
Speaker 1: your story of an accident, couldn't an innocent, exhausted person
22:31
Speaker 1: just agree to make the interrogation stop?
22:34
Speaker 2: That is a highly valid concern and a major point
22:37
Speaker 2: of debate in forensic psychology. Minimization can, in highly stressful
22:42
Speaker 2: environments with vulnerable suspects, induce false confessions.
22:45
Speaker 1: Right. We've seen that happen.
22:47
Speaker 2: However, in this specific application, Cowan wasn't just asking for
22:50
Speaker 2: a verbal agreement. He was asking for physical evidence. He
22:53
Speaker 2: was saying, lead us to the body.
22:55
Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
22:56
Speaker 2: An innocent person cannot lead you to a body they
22:58
Speaker 2: don't know the location of. But Mark refuses to take
23:01
Speaker 2: the bait. He firmly states he will not admit to
23:04
Speaker 2: something he claims he did not do.
23:06
Speaker 1: So the technique failed. Right.
23:08
Speaker 2: When these behavioral and psychological tactics fail to produce a confession,
23:12
Speaker 2: law enforcement immediately pivots to the hard, undeniable realm of
23:16
Speaker 2: physical forensic evidence. They secure and execute a search warrant
23:20
Speaker 2: on Mark's residence.
23:21
Speaker 1: And this is the moment the physical reality of the
23:24
Speaker 1: crime scene begins to perfectly align with the behavioral suspicions.
23:29
Speaker 1: Law enforcement brings in highly trained cadaver dogs.
23:32
Speaker 2: And these dogs alert to the specific scent of human
23:35
Speaker 2: remains in two absolutely crucial locations.
23:38
Speaker 1: Inside the living room of Mark's house and in the
23:41
Speaker 1: bed of Mark's pickup truck.
23:42
Speaker 2: To understand the weight of this, we need to understand
23:44
Speaker 2: the science of olfaction and cadaver dogs. These animals are
23:48
Speaker 2: not just sniffing for blood. They are highly calibrated to
23:51
Speaker 2: detect the specific volatile organic compounds, the chemical gases. that
23:56
Speaker 2: are released exclusively during human decomposition.
23:59
Speaker 1: Right, even if the body was moved.
24:01
Speaker 2: They can detect these compounds even if a body was
24:04
Speaker 2: only present for a short window of time before being moved.
24:07
Speaker 2: The fact that the dogs alerted in the house indicates
24:10
Speaker 2: a body was there.
24:11
Speaker 1: And the truck.
24:11
Speaker 2: The fact that they alerted in the truck indicates the
24:14
Speaker 2: truck was the mechanical transport vehicle used to move that body.
24:17
Speaker 1: And it wasn't just invisible scent compounds. The crime scene
24:21
Speaker 1: technicians utilizing chemicals like liminal found actual blood.
24:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, they found blood deposits on the couches, on the
24:27
Speaker 2: living room floor, and on the coffee table.
24:30
Speaker 1: They take swabs, run the DNA testing, and the lab
24:33
Speaker 1: confirms that at least one of those specific blood deposits
24:36
Speaker 1: is a 100% definitive match to Dylan's DNA.
24:40
Speaker 2: So the forensic picture is clarifying rapidly. His living room
24:43
Speaker 2: is the primary crime scene where the violent event occurred.
24:46
Speaker 2: His truck is the secondary scene used for disposal.
24:49
Speaker 1: It's all coming together.
24:50
Speaker 2: While this intense forensic processing is occurring, investigators are constantly
24:54
Speaker 2: scrutinizing Mark's physical behavior. Observers heavily noted that while he
24:58
Speaker 2: walked around, his eyes were bloodshot, implying crying, but there
25:02
Speaker 2: was a complete absence of actual tears.
25:04
Speaker 1: So it was fake.
25:05
Speaker 2: It appeared highly staged. It looked like an individual intellectually
25:09
Speaker 2: trying to perform the societal role of a grieving, terrified father,
25:13
Speaker 2: but biologically failing to produce the actual physiological secretions of
25:17
Speaker 2: genuine sorrow.
25:18
Speaker 1: Wow. And his true, unfiltered emotional state is far more
25:22
Speaker 1: accurately documented in a recorded phone call with investigator Tanya Gutbrey.
25:27
Speaker 2: That phone call is very telling.
25:28
Speaker 1: This specific phone call is incredibly infuriating to listen to,
25:32
Speaker 1: but it is a goldmine for understanding Mark's psychology. Griebrey
25:36
Speaker 1: calls him simply doing her job, following up on leads,
25:40
Speaker 1: and Mark is instantly hostile, defensive, and overtly sexist.
25:44
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, extremely sexist.
25:46
Speaker 1: When she presses him for answers... He aggressively tells her
25:50
Speaker 1: to pull her head out of her sociopath ass.
25:52
Speaker 2: Just completely inappropriate.
25:53
Speaker 1: He tells her women are only good for one thing
25:56
Speaker 1: and explicitly notes it isn't cooking and cleaning. He directly
26:00
Speaker 1: tells her she is intellectually incapable of handling the situation.
26:04
Speaker 2: That overt hostility is not simply a man losing his temper.
26:08
Speaker 2: It is a calculated defense mechanism. He is attempting to
26:12
Speaker 2: verbally belittle and degrade the investigator in order to elevate
26:15
Speaker 2: his own sense of control and superiority.
26:17
Speaker 1: It's classic deflection.
26:18
Speaker 2: But he also makes a passing comment during that specific
26:21
Speaker 2: phase of the investigation that is deeply chilling. When searchers
26:24
Speaker 2: eventually find the very first small fragments of bone in
26:27
Speaker 2: the mountains, Mark completely dismisses the discovery.
26:30
Speaker 1: Wait, he dismisses it?
26:31
Speaker 2: He arrogantly tells investigators over the phone that finding 2%
26:35
Speaker 2: of Dylan's remains does not logically constitute him being found.
26:40
Speaker 1: Think about the sheer audacity and lack of humanity in
26:43
Speaker 1: that statement. Your missing son's bone is found in the wilderness,
26:47
Speaker 1: and your immediate response is basically a cold mathematical equation
26:51
Speaker 1: minimizing the discovery.
26:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, just, that's only 2%.
26:55
Speaker 1: It is the distinct arrogance of an individual who genuinely
26:58
Speaker 1: believes they have engineered the perfect crime. He is practically
27:02
Speaker 1: taunting the police over the phone.
27:03
Speaker 2: What is highly revealing here is that his comment exposes
27:07
Speaker 2: his hyperfixation on the legal mechanics of getting caught, entirely
27:11
Speaker 2: superseding any natural grief for his deceased son.
27:14
Speaker 1: Right.
27:15
Speaker 2: He logically deduced that without a complete body, the state
27:18
Speaker 2: could never medically prove the exact mechanism of a murder.
27:21
Speaker 2: He thought he had outsmarted the entire judicial system.
27:23
Speaker 1: And for a significant period of time, it appeared that
27:26
Speaker 1: the brutal elements of nature were actually on his side.
27:28
Speaker 2: They really were.
27:29
Speaker 1: Yes. Mark was horribly right about one specific thing. Having
27:33
Speaker 1: only 2% of the physical remains made an immediate legal
27:37
Speaker 1: conviction incredibly difficult, if not impossible. And then the weather hit.
27:42
Speaker 2: The winter weather in the high country of Colorado is
27:44
Speaker 2: absolute unforgiving brutality. It shuts down everything.
27:48
Speaker 1: They literally have to close the mountain roads because they
27:51
Speaker 1: become impassable. So for months, the physical search just stops cold.
27:56
Speaker 1: Mark's secret is safely buried under feet of heavy snow.
27:59
Speaker 2: But he drastically underestimated the changing of the seasons. And
28:03
Speaker 2: he underestimated the sheer, dogged persistence of the civilian searchers
28:07
Speaker 2: and law enforcement.
28:08
Speaker 1: Absolutely. The moment the spring thaw arrived and the snow melted,
28:11
Speaker 1: the massive search operation resumed. And a massive investigative breakthrough
28:16
Speaker 1: came from a serendipitous combination of human observation and physical evidence.
28:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, this part is incredible.
28:21
Speaker 1: Elaine's stepfather happened to be driving up on Middle Mountain
28:24
Speaker 1: Road very early one morning, and he specifically spotted Mark
28:27
Speaker 1: Redwine driving his vehicle down and away from that exact
28:31
Speaker 1: remote mountain road.
28:32
Speaker 2: Which is incredibly suspicious timing and location for a father
28:35
Speaker 2: who supposedly doesn't know where his son is.
28:38
Speaker 1: Very suspicious.
28:39
Speaker 2: It instantly turns all of law enforcement's intense attention to
28:42
Speaker 2: that specific area of the mountain. They bring in specialized
28:46
Speaker 2: dog handlers, horseback search teams to cover ground, and rappelling
28:50
Speaker 2: teams to search the cliffs.
28:52
Speaker 1: And over a grueling four-day search, they find a single
28:55
Speaker 1: Nike Air Jordan shoe, size 7 youth.
28:59
Speaker 2: That shoe is everything.
29:00
Speaker 1: This is a massive find because it perfectly, undeniably matches
29:04
Speaker 1: the exact shoe Dylan was wearing in that Walmart surveillance
29:08
Speaker 1: video on the day he arrived.
29:10
Speaker 2: The discovery of the shoe is the forensic anchor. It
29:13
Speaker 2: anchors the timeline and it anchors the geographic location of
29:15
Speaker 2: the disposal. The very next day, human remains dogs alert
29:18
Speaker 2: heavily on two small bones. And while the crime scene
29:21
Speaker 2: technicians are carefully collecting those, a searcher looks down and
29:24
Speaker 2: discovers a long bone nearby. DNA testing swiftly confirms these
29:28
Speaker 2: bones are in fact Dillon's.
29:30
Speaker 1: But as Mark so callously pointed out during his phone call,
29:33
Speaker 1: it was still only a fraction of his physical remains.
29:36
Speaker 1: There was no skull, no cranium.
29:38
Speaker 2: Which is a huge problem for the prosecution.
29:40
Speaker 1: Right, because it meant the medical examiner could not definitively
29:42
Speaker 1: point to a physiological cause of death. You have bones
29:46
Speaker 1: proving he is dead, but you do not necessarily have
29:49
Speaker 1: a provable murder weapon or a definitive mechanism of fatal injury.
29:53
Speaker 2: This specific lack of biological evidence is why the case
29:56
Speaker 2: stalled once again. As the prosecutor later explained to the public,
30:01
Speaker 2: you do not easily go forward to a jury trial
30:05
Speaker 2: on a criminal homicide investigation without a complete body.
30:08
Speaker 1: Especially when the case involves a father and his young son.
30:11
Speaker 2: Historically, juries heavily struggled to believe a father could violently
30:15
Speaker 2: kill his own child without overwhelming, undeniable proof of how
30:18
Speaker 2: it happened. The state felt they didn't have enough to
30:21
Speaker 2: guarantee a conviction. So the case sat agonizingly for three
30:25
Speaker 2: more years.
30:26
Speaker 1: Three years. Yeah. Until the summer of 2015. Three years
30:30
Speaker 1: after Dylan vanished into the cold, hikers are out trekking
30:33
Speaker 1: through the wilderness, and they make a grim, monumental discovery.
30:37
Speaker 1: They find Dylan's skull.
30:38
Speaker 2: That changes everything.
30:40
Speaker 1: But the geographic location of this discovery is the key
30:43
Speaker 1: to unlocking the entire case. The skull was found a
30:46
Speaker 1: full mile away through dense wilderness from where the other
30:49
Speaker 1: bones and the Nike shoe were located. If you were driving,
30:52
Speaker 1: it was six miles away by winding mountain roads.
30:56
Speaker 2: The physical condition of the skull provided the final necessary
30:59
Speaker 2: puzzle pieces for the medical examiner. Right.
31:01
Speaker 1: What did they find?
31:02
Speaker 2: The forensic anthropological analysis revealed two distinct crucial things. First,
31:08
Speaker 2: undeniable evidence of blunt force trauma, which strongly suggests a
31:12
Speaker 2: strike from a human weapon.
31:13
Speaker 1: Okay.
31:13
Speaker 2: And second, animal puncture marks, which are entirely consistent with
31:17
Speaker 2: post-mortem scavenging by local wildlife.
31:20
Speaker 1: This single discovery finally violently shifts the momentum of the case.
31:25
Speaker 1: A new district attorney, Christian Champagne, who had previously been
31:28
Speaker 1: working on the case as a deputy DA, takes over
31:31
Speaker 1: the office in 2017. He decides they finally have enough
31:34
Speaker 1: and pushes for a grand jury.
31:36
Speaker 2: And we should briefly clarify why a grand jury is
31:38
Speaker 2: utilized in cases like this.
31:40
Speaker 1: Please do.
31:40
Speaker 2: In highly circumstantial cases, or cases involving partial remains, prosecutors
31:46
Speaker 2: often use a grand jury, a group of citizens who
31:48
Speaker 2: hear the evidence in secret, to test the strength of
31:51
Speaker 2: their case.
31:51
Speaker 1: Oh, I see.
31:52
Speaker 2: The grand jury decides if there is enough probable cause
31:55
Speaker 2: to formally charge the suspect. It is a way for
31:58
Speaker 2: the DA to ensure the community agrees the evidence is
32:01
Speaker 2: strong enough to warrant a full trial.
32:04
Speaker 1: And finally, almost five agonizing years after Dylan disappeared from
32:09
Speaker 1: that living room, the grand jury indictment comes down. Law
32:12
Speaker 1: enforcement tracks Mark down. He was actually out in Washington
32:16
Speaker 1: state working as a long-haul trucker, when he was finally arrested.
32:19
Speaker 2: And his reaction to the arrest warrant was one of
32:22
Speaker 2: genuine shock.
32:23
Speaker 1: Really?
32:23
Speaker 2: Yeah. He told the arresting officers, I have no idea
32:26
Speaker 2: what that's about. He had lived completely free for five years.
32:29
Speaker 2: He truly, deeply believed he was permanently off the hook.
32:33
Speaker 1: Wow. The grand jury officially charged him with two specific counts,
32:37
Speaker 1: second-degree murder and child abuse resulting in death.
32:40
Speaker 2: I want to stop and break down the specific legal
32:42
Speaker 2: strategy here because I think a lot of people looking
32:44
Speaker 2: at this case might ask, why not first-degree murder?
32:47
Speaker 1: Right. I mean, the man killed his own child, hid
32:49
Speaker 1: the body, and lied for years. Throw the absolute maximum
32:53
Speaker 1: book at him. Why second degree?
32:56
Speaker 2: It revolves around a crucial, specific distinction in criminal law.
33:00
Speaker 2: In Colorado, as in the vast majority of jurisdictions, first
33:04
Speaker 2: degree murder explicitly requires the element of premeditation.
33:08
Speaker 1: Ah, premeditation.
33:08
Speaker 2: It requires the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt
33:11
Speaker 2: that Mark wholly planned and intended to kill Dylan before
33:14
Speaker 2: the physical act occurred. they would have to prove he
33:17
Speaker 2: lured him there to kill him.
33:18
Speaker 1: Which they didn't prove.
33:19
Speaker 2: Right. The prosecution honestly looked at the totality of the
33:22
Speaker 2: evidence and realized they could not legally prove he plotted
33:25
Speaker 2: this murder in advance. The behavioral evidence, the tense Walmart trip,
33:30
Speaker 2: the secret photos, the shifting power dynamic, the deep resentment,
33:33
Speaker 2: all pointed toward a sudden, explosive, uncontrollable rage.
33:37
Speaker 1: Right. A crime of passion, essentially.
33:39
Speaker 2: A complete loss of emotional control in the heat of
33:42
Speaker 2: a specific argument. Second-degree murder fits that psychological profile perfectly.
33:46
Speaker 2: It is a knowing, intentional killing, but executed without prior
33:51
Speaker 2: calculation or planning. It was the most severe, legally provable
33:55
Speaker 2: charge available to them.
33:57
Speaker 1: Okay, so the state brings this to trial. And this
33:59
Speaker 1: is where the intense courtroom showdown begins. The defense, led
34:03
Speaker 1: by attorney Justin Bogan, has an incredibly difficult mountain to climb.
34:07
Speaker 2: Oh, massive.
34:08
Speaker 1: They have a dead child, a father with a highly
34:10
Speaker 1: bizarre history of deception. And the victim's blood soaked into
34:14
Speaker 1: the living room floor.
34:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
34:15
Speaker 1: So what strategy did they deploy?
34:17
Speaker 2: They get creative.
34:18
Speaker 1: They pivot entirely to the forces of nature. They focus
34:21
Speaker 1: their entire defense on those specific animal puncture marks found
34:24
Speaker 1: on the skull.
34:25
Speaker 2: The defense strategy was highly calculated. They needed to separate
34:28
Speaker 2: the heavy emotional weight of the poop pics from the
34:31
Speaker 2: hard scientific reality of the recovered remains.
34:33
Speaker 1: Yeah.
34:34
Speaker 2: Bogan passionately argued to the jury that the prosecution was
34:37
Speaker 2: relying strictly on hot emotions, disgust, and a very thin
34:41
Speaker 2: narrative of fatherly rage while willfully ignoring the hard forensic
34:45
Speaker 2: science that a wild animal, a bear, a mountain lion,
34:49
Speaker 2: or a coyote left undeniable teeth marks on the boy's head.
34:53
Speaker 1: The defense also heavily attacks the blood evidence in the
34:57
Speaker 1: living room. They rightly point out to the jury that
35:00
Speaker 1: Gillen visited his dad often over the years. Young boys
35:04
Speaker 1: get bloody noses, they roughhouse and scrape their knees.
35:07
Speaker 2: That's true.
35:08
Speaker 1: The defense's forensic expert correctly states to the court that
35:10
Speaker 1: current forensic science cannot accurately date exactly when a blood
35:14
Speaker 1: deposit was left on a surface.
35:16
Speaker 2: That is scientifically accurate. Because proteins in blood degrade at
35:19
Speaker 2: vastly different rates depending on humidity, temperature, and UV exposure,
35:23
Speaker 2: you cannot carbon date or timestamp a blood stain like
35:27
Speaker 2: a receipt. The defense utilized this scientific limitation to suggest
35:31
Speaker 2: the blood could have been from a completely innocent scrape
35:34
Speaker 2: a month prior. It is a classic defense strategy of
35:38
Speaker 2: introducing reasonable debt by providing a plausible alternative explanation for
35:43
Speaker 2: every single individual piece of circumstantial evidence.
35:46
Speaker 1: But let's just step back and apply basic human common
35:49
Speaker 1: sense to the defense's wild animal theory. I want you
35:53
Speaker 1: to visualize the sheer absurdity of the physical narrative the
35:57
Speaker 1: defense is asking this jury to swallow.
35:59
Speaker 2: It's quite a stretch.
36:00
Speaker 1: You have a 13-year-old boy who arrived in Colorado in
36:03
Speaker 1: late November wearing only shorts and a t-shirt. The defense
36:06
Speaker 1: wants you to believe that this child voluntarily wandered out
36:10
Speaker 1: of a warm, heavily heated house into the middle of
36:12
Speaker 1: a freezing, pitch black night, hiked miles up a rugged,
36:16
Speaker 1: incredibly steep mountain road in the dark, only to be
36:18
Speaker 1: randomly attacked and killed by a forging bear.
36:20
Speaker 2: And then, conveniently, that same bear scattered his remains in
36:24
Speaker 2: the exact same geographic area where his father was later
36:27
Speaker 2: seen driving suspiciously at dawn.
36:29
Speaker 1: Exactly. It just makes no sense.
36:31
Speaker 2: The prosecution... systematically and scientifically dismantled that wild animal theory
36:36
Speaker 2: using the hard rules of geography and wildlife biology.
36:39
Speaker 1: Oh, I love this part.
36:41
Speaker 2: Yes, there is a dense population of bears and mountain
36:44
Speaker 2: lions in the San Juan Mountains. And yes, those predators
36:47
Speaker 2: are known to scavenge human remains. But the prosecution brought
36:51
Speaker 2: in expert wildlife biologists who testified to a very specific,
36:56
Speaker 2: undeniable behavioral pattern regarding calorie expenditure. Predators like bears and
37:01
Speaker 2: mountain lions generally do not move their prey more than
37:03
Speaker 2: a quarter of a mile from the initial kill site
37:05
Speaker 2: or the location they found the carrion.
37:07
Speaker 1: Right, because hauling dead weight burns precious calories. They eat
37:11
Speaker 1: exactly where they kill it, or they drag it a
37:13
Speaker 1: very short distance to a nearby den to hide it
37:16
Speaker 1: from other scavengers.
37:17
Speaker 2: Precisely. The biological mechanism of energy conservation dictates their behavior.
37:22
Speaker 2: Yet Dylan's skull was found a full, rugged mile away
37:25
Speaker 2: from his other bones and his shoe.
37:27
Speaker 1: So it couldn't have been a bear.
37:29
Speaker 2: While it is physically possible for a massive bear to
37:31
Speaker 2: carry a skull that distance, behaviorally and biologically, they simply
37:35
Speaker 2: do not exert that kind of energy without reason. The
37:38
Speaker 2: prosecution successfully logically argued that the only rational explanation for
37:43
Speaker 2: that specific massive geographic dispersal of heavy remains is human intervention.
37:49
Speaker 1: It wasn't a bear scattering bones. It was a desperate
37:52
Speaker 1: human being moving evidence in stages to hide a crime. Absolutely.
37:57
Speaker 1: To further hammer home the undeniable physical reality of the crime,
38:01
Speaker 1: the prosecution executed an incredible logistical maneuver. They couldn't physically
38:06
Speaker 1: bust the jury up to Mark's house to see the
38:07
Speaker 1: crime scene, so they brought the crime scene directly to
38:10
Speaker 1: the jury. That was brilliant. They utilized a secondary courtroom
38:13
Speaker 1: down the hall and physically recreated Mark's living room, piece
38:17
Speaker 1: by piece.
38:18
Speaker 2: The deployment of a full-scale physical recreation is a profoundly
38:21
Speaker 2: powerful demonstrative exhibit. Jurors were allowed to walk into that room,
38:26
Speaker 2: experience the exact spatial layout, see the tight distances between
38:30
Speaker 2: the couch and the coffee table, and observe exactly where
38:32
Speaker 2: the specific deposits of Dylan's blood were located on the
38:35
Speaker 2: furniture and the floor.
38:37
Speaker 1: It makes it so real.
38:38
Speaker 2: It completely transforms abstract, dry testimony about DNA swabs and
38:42
Speaker 2: lab results online. into a highly physical, visual reality of
38:46
Speaker 2: a violently confined struggle.
38:48
Speaker 1: It aggressively grounds the narrative in physical space. And then
38:53
Speaker 1: the prosecution paired that physical, spatial reality with the raw,
38:57
Speaker 1: emotional reality of those secret photographs.
39:00
Speaker 2: A risky move, but effective.
39:01
Speaker 1: The prosecution made the difficult decision to display those deeply
39:04
Speaker 1: disturbing photos of Mark to the jury in order to
39:07
Speaker 1: establish the precise psychological motive. They argued forcefully that these
39:12
Speaker 1: photos were not just a weird, embarrassing fetish. They were
39:14
Speaker 1: the very spark that ended a child's life.
39:17
Speaker 2: Right.
39:17
Speaker 1: They demonstrated how Dylan possessed the power, how he likely
39:20
Speaker 1: used it in that living room, and how Mark's ego
39:23
Speaker 1: violently snapped in response.
39:24
Speaker 2: When you combine the physical evidence, the blood in the recreation,
39:27
Speaker 2: the biological impossibility of the animal... attack scattering the bones
39:31
Speaker 2: a mile apart, and the sheer laughable implausibility of Mark's
39:35
Speaker 2: own televised explanations, it left the jury with a highly clarified,
39:39
Speaker 2: albeit technically circumstantial, picture of guilt.
39:42
Speaker 1: This intense trial lasted for five grueling weeks. You have
39:46
Speaker 1: dense technical testimony on cell phone pings, highly emotional breakdowns
39:50
Speaker 1: from family members on the stand, and the gruesome clinical
39:53
Speaker 1: details of the recovered remains.
39:55
Speaker 2: It's exhausting.
39:56
Speaker 1: And after all of that heavy emotional and scientific weight,
39:59
Speaker 1: the jury is sent to deliberate. It takes them a
40:01
Speaker 1: grand total of only six hours to reach a verdict.
40:04
Speaker 2: Taking only six hours to deliberate after five weeks of
40:07
Speaker 2: complex testimony strongly indicates that the jury was not deeply
40:11
Speaker 2: divided on the evidence. Right.
40:13
Speaker 1: They knew.
40:14
Speaker 2: They did not struggle with reasonable doubt. They saw a clear,
40:17
Speaker 2: unobstructed path to guilt. They returned and found Mark Redwine
40:21
Speaker 2: guilty on both counts, second-degree murder and child abuse resulting
40:25
Speaker 2: in death.
40:26
Speaker 1: And Mark's physical reaction when the guilty verdict is read
40:29
Speaker 1: aloud in the courtroom. Complete stone-faced silence. Absolutely nothing.
40:34
Speaker 2: He maintained the exact same blank, unreadable, detached demeanor he
40:38
Speaker 2: had utilized throughout the entire decade-long ordeal. Courtroom observers heavily
40:43
Speaker 2: noted that during the trial, as forensic experts discussed his
40:47
Speaker 2: son's brutalized remains... A normal father would physically fall to pieces.
40:51
Speaker 2: Mark never shed a single tear. He never flinched.
40:55
Speaker 1: His chilling lack of emotion remained utterly consistent to the
40:58
Speaker 1: bitter end of the legal process. And that defiance carried
41:02
Speaker 1: directly over into his sentencing hearing.
41:04
Speaker 2: Right. His pre-sentence statement.
41:06
Speaker 1: In his required pre-sentence statement submitted to the probation office,
41:09
Speaker 1: he did not offer even a microscopic shred of remorse
41:12
Speaker 1: or accountability. He aggressively wrote that he was entirely innocent
41:16
Speaker 1: of all charges and explicitly calling the outcome a miscarriage
41:20
Speaker 1: of justice, a fake conviction, and a complete sham trial.
41:24
Speaker 2: The presiding judge explicitly and forcefully called him out on
41:27
Speaker 2: this behavior during sentencing. The judge stated from the bench
41:31
Speaker 2: that he had genuine trouble remembering a convicted defendant ever
41:33
Speaker 2: showing such a profound, utter lack of remorse for the
41:36
Speaker 2: death of their own child.
41:37
Speaker 1: It's staggering. The judge determined that society needed to be
41:40
Speaker 1: permanently protected from him and sentenced Mark to 48 years
41:44
Speaker 1: in prison, which is the absolute maximum allowed under the law, To.
41:52
Speaker 2: Quickly clarify the legal terminology, serving sentences concurrently means he
41:56
Speaker 2: serves the time for both charges at the same time,
41:59
Speaker 2: rather than consecutively, which would mean serving one sentence and
42:03
Speaker 2: then beginning the next.
42:04
Speaker 1: Got it.
42:05
Speaker 2: But given Mark's advanced age, a 48-year concurrent sentence operates
42:09
Speaker 2: effectively as a guaranteed life sentence. The legal machinery concluded
42:13
Speaker 2: with the maximum possible penalty of serving reflecting not just
42:17
Speaker 2: the extreme severity of the murder, but the defendant's ongoing
42:20
Speaker 2: narcissistic defiance and present danger to the community.
42:23
Speaker 1: It's the only appropriate sentence.
42:25
Speaker 2: But the true emotional and moral conclusion of this trial
42:28
Speaker 2: belongs entirely to Elaine, Dylan's mother.
42:32
Speaker 1: Her victim impact statement delivered in that courtroom was so
42:35
Speaker 1: incredibly powerful it takes your breath away. She stood up
42:37
Speaker 1: at that podium and she absolutely refused to look away
42:40
Speaker 1: from her.
42:41
Speaker 2: Good for her.
42:42
Speaker 1: She locked eyes with the man who murdered her son.
42:46
Speaker 1: And she framed Dylan's legacy in a way that I
42:48
Speaker 1: think is deeply vital to remember. She didn't just frame
42:51
Speaker 1: him as a helpless, tragic victim. She framed him as
42:54
Speaker 1: a powerful hero.
42:55
Speaker 2: That's beautiful.
42:56
Speaker 1: She told the court, and by extension, the entire world,
43:00
Speaker 1: that a 13-year-old boy bravely stood up to his 50-year-old father,
43:04
Speaker 1: held him accountable for his actions, and in doing so,
43:07
Speaker 1: became more of a man in 13 short years than
43:10
Speaker 1: Mark had managed to become in 60.
43:11
Speaker 2: It was a masterful reclaiming of her son's narrative. For
43:15
Speaker 2: a decade, Mark had attempted to erase Dylan, to permanently
43:18
Speaker 2: silence him, and ultimately to blame him or Elaine for
43:21
Speaker 2: the disappearance. Elaine used the authority of the court to
43:24
Speaker 2: ensure that Dylan's innate courage and honesty was the final
43:27
Speaker 2: indelible word on his character.
43:29
Speaker 1: I found myself thinking a lot about what Elaine said
43:31
Speaker 1: to the press afterward regarding this popular concept of closure.
43:35
Speaker 1: We throw that word around all the time in true
43:37
Speaker 1: crime media. We say, the family finally has closure.
43:40
Speaker 2: Right, like a neat bow.
43:41
Speaker 1: But Elaine bluntly stated that closure is a myth when
43:43
Speaker 1: you lose a child. You cannot just neatly close the chapter,
43:47
Speaker 1: put the book on a shelf and pretend they never existed.
43:49
Speaker 1: You don't ever move on. You simply learn how to
43:52
Speaker 1: carry the immense weight of it.
43:53
Speaker 2: That's so profound.
43:54
Speaker 1: You always mourn their violent death, but you make the
43:57
Speaker 1: conscious daily choice to actively celebrate their life.
44:01
Speaker 2: It is a profoundly healthy and realistic reframing of traumatic grief.
44:06
Speaker 2: And what is remarkable is that she did not stop
44:08
Speaker 2: with her own family's localized grief. She smartly utilized the
44:12
Speaker 2: massive media attention at the conclusion of the trial to
44:16
Speaker 2: speak to a much larger systemic issue.
44:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, the cold cases.
44:20
Speaker 2: She pointed out to the cameras that in the state
44:22
Speaker 2: of Colorado alone, there are currently 1,500 unsolved cold cases
44:26
Speaker 2: sitting in filing cabinets.
44:27
Speaker 1: She transformed this deeply personal, horrific family tragedy into a
44:31
Speaker 1: massive rallying cry. She sent a direct message to the
44:35
Speaker 1: families waiting in agony for answers. to the tired detectives
44:38
Speaker 1: grinding through dusty old files, and specifically to the prosecutors
44:41
Speaker 1: who might be too scared of losing to take a
44:44
Speaker 1: circumstantial partial body case to trial?
44:46
Speaker 2: Keep fighting.
44:47
Speaker 1: Exactly. Keep fighting. Never give up on the evidence. Her
44:50
Speaker 1: son's case proved that even against the rugged, unforgiving Rocky Mountains,
44:55
Speaker 1: the passage of a decade, and a relentless, narcissistic, pathological liar,
45:00
Speaker 1: justice is still mechanically possible.
45:02
Speaker 2: It stands as a testament to the stubborn persistence of
45:05
Speaker 2: modern law enforcement, the undeniable realities of forensic science, and
45:09
Speaker 2: the absolute resilience of a grieving mother.
45:12
Speaker 1: It really does.
45:13
Speaker 2: To summarize the specific tragedy we have analyzed today, this
45:16
Speaker 2: was a cascading event born of a forced, unwanted visitation
45:21
Speaker 2: ignited by a dark, deeply hidden secret. and violently executed
45:25
Speaker 2: by a father whose ego was so incredibly fragile that
45:28
Speaker 2: he chose to destroy his own family rather than face humiliation.
45:32
Speaker 2: It took a full decade, but it culminated in a
45:34
Speaker 2: highly complex forensic and behavioral victory for the prosecution.
45:38
Speaker 1: It is an incredibly heavy story to carry. But as
45:42
Speaker 1: we wrap up this analysis, I want to leave you
45:44
Speaker 1: with a final thought, a new angle to mull over
45:47
Speaker 1: that builds on the mechanics of everything we've discussed today.
45:50
Speaker 1: We talked extensively about that deleted digital file on the
45:53
Speaker 1: hotel laptop. Think about the profound, irreversible shift in family
45:58
Speaker 1: power dynamics caused strictly by our modern digital footprints.
46:02
Speaker 2: From a sociological standpoint, it is a fascinating and entirely
46:06
Speaker 2: modern phenomenon.
46:07
Speaker 1: Think about the mechanics of it. In any previous generation,
46:10
Speaker 1: a parent's dark, deeply private, secret, whatever embarrassing or destructive
46:15
Speaker 1: thing it might be, would highly likely remain buried forever.
46:19
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure.
46:19
Speaker 1: You would live in a physical space, perhaps locked in
46:22
Speaker 1: a physical drawer, easily controlled and hidden. But today, a
46:25
Speaker 1: supposedly deleted file left on a shared family laptop, captured
46:29
Speaker 1: in a fraction of a second by a teenager's ubiquitous
46:31
Speaker 1: cell phone camera, permanently and instantly arms a child with
46:35
Speaker 1: undeniable leverage.
46:37
Speaker 2: It permanently and immediately alters the established hierarchical structure of
46:40
Speaker 2: the household. The parent can no longer simply deny reality.
46:44
Speaker 1: It forces us to examine how the digital age hasn't
46:47
Speaker 1: just revolutionized the way crimes are solved. With cell phone
46:50
Speaker 1: location pings, surveillance cameras, and digital forensics, But it has
46:56
Speaker 1: fundamentally changed how the very secrets that cause those crimes
47:00
Speaker 1: are unearthed right in the middle of the modern living room.
47:02
Speaker 2: That's a really deep thought.
47:04
Speaker 1: The exact same digital technology that Dylan used to desperately
47:08
Speaker 1: text his friends for an escape was the exact same
47:11
Speaker 1: technology that captured the devastating secret that ultimately cost him
47:15
Speaker 1: his life.
47:15
Speaker 2: It is a profoundly dark irony of the modern technological age.
47:19
Speaker 2: The very tools we use for our social connection also
47:22
Speaker 2: serve as the unbreakable vaults of our most destructive human secrets.
47:26
Speaker 1: So on that heavy note, we want to thank you
47:28
Speaker 1: for joining us on this deep dive into the transcripts,
47:30
Speaker 1: the science, and the very hard truths of the Dylan
47:33
Speaker 1: Redwine case. Keep exploring the layers of the cases, the
47:36
Speaker 1: behavioral science, and the complex stories happening around you. And
47:40
Speaker 1: the next time you think about the safe predictability of
47:42
Speaker 1: a family holiday, remember just how quickly that routine can
47:46
Speaker 1: vanish into the freezing dark of the mountains.