Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 61 - Is Prometheus a Watcher from the Book of Enoch?

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Ep. 61 - Is Prometheus a Watcher from the Book of Enoch? · Martyr's Row

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  This week on Martyrs Row, are Azalea's Watcher
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  technology? Did Enoch write Prometheus? Was the
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  fruit on the tree of the knowledge of good and
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  evil an apple or an egg? Did the beast from Beauty
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  and the Beast run into Andrew and Bartholomew
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  in the woods and convert a whole village of cannibals
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  to Christ? What? I don't know. Let's find out.
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  3, 2, 1. Saint Sophia, a Christian widow of Rome,
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  was in the days of the emperor Hadrian, brought
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  before the persecutors together with her three
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  daughters, Faith, Hope, and Charity. Being commanded
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  to renounce Christ, she refused, and exhorted
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  her children to stand fast in the faith which
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  she had taught them. The three maidens were then
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  subjected to the cruel torments, yet each confessed
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  the name of Christ and would not bow unto the
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  idols. Faith, hope, and charity were slain one
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  after another, and Sophia, beholding their deaths,
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  gave thanks unto God that they had remained faithful
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  until the end. For three days she remained beside
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  their graves, mourning, yet steadfast, until
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  she too yielded up her spirit and was laid to
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  rest with her daughters. Thus this mother, having
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  given her children unto Christ, followed after
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  them in faith. And the four were remembered together
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  as witnesses that neither the tenderness of a
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  mother nor the weakness of youth can overcome
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  the love of God. Anno Domini, 137. There is a
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  story in an ancient Christian text about a man
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  who was not quite a man. He lived in a place
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  called the City of Cannibals. And he was a cannibal
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  himself. But he was not merely savage. He was
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  monstrous. A man with the head of a dog. A creature
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  feared by those who saw him. Wandering the wilderness,
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  looking for someone to eat. His body was enormous,
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  four cubits tall. His face was like the face
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  of a great dog. His eyes burned like lamps. His
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  back teeth were like the tusks of a wild boar.
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  and his front teeth like those of a lion. His
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  fingernails were claws, his toenails curved like
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  a sickle. The text does not speak of him as a
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  man wearing a mask. This was his body. This was
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  what he was. And yet, God had not forgotten him.
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  The apostles Andrew and Bartholomew were traveling
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  through this strange country, and God told them
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  that someone would come to them. Someone they
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  would not expect, a dog -headed man. And so an
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  angel went out to find him. He found him in the
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  wilderness, searching for flesh, searching for
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  someone to devour. And the angel spoke to him
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  about God. And something changed. The wildness
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  was taken from him. His voice became the voice
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  of a man. And he was told to go and find the
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  apostles. When Andrew and Bartholomew saw him,
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  They were terrified, and they ran away. The apostles
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  themselves fled from the creature. But he followed
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  them, and when he caught up with them, he said,
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  Fear not, O my spiritual fathers. And he told
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  them that Jesus Christ had commanded him to come
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  to their aid. The monster could speak, the monster
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  could reason, and the monster had been called.
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  Eventually, they asked him his name. And the
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  answer depends on the tradition. In some versions,
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  he is called abominable, in others, bewitched.
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  But the apostles give him another name, Christian.
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  The dog -headed cannibal had become a Christian,
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  but his transformation was not yet finished.
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  The apostles continued toward the city, and the
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  people there rose against them. So Christian
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  asked Andrew to uncover his face. He prayed and
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  God restored what he had once made him terrifying.
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  The wilderness, the wildness returned. Lions
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  came, bears came, leopards came, and Christian
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  tore them apart. The people fled before him and
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  the city was eventually surrounded by fire. The
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  people surrendered, they confessed Christ, and
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  Andrew commanded them to bring out their idols.
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  He stamped his foot on the ground and the earth
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  opened. And the idols fell into it. Then water
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  came forth from a broken pillar. And with that
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  water, the apostles baptized the people. The
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  cannibal city became a Christian city. And the
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  creature who had once wandered its wilderness
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  looking for someone to devour became a servant
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  of the apostles, a Christian. And in one version
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  of the story, the story does not end there. Christian
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  eventually captured In a strange story, almost
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  impossibly strange, but beneath the monsters
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  and miracles, there is a question. A question
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  these Christians were willing to ask about the
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  very boundaries of humanity. What makes someone
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  human? Is it the face, the body, the language,
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  the customs? What if the thing standing before
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  you looks nothing like you? What if it frightens
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  you? What if it is savage? What if it has spent
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  its life far beyond the borders of your world?
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  Can God still reach it? The story says yes. God
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  gives the monster the speech of a man. He gives
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  him a new name. He gives him a new life. And
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  the creature who was once called abominable is
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  called Christian. Because in this strange old
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  story, the gospel does not stop at the edge of
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  humanity. It crosses the boundary. It enters
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  the wilderness. It finds the monster, and it
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  calls him by name. Weird story, right? What's
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  his name? Christian. Where does this come from?
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  I wanted to leave on a cliffhanger. It's an apocryphal
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  work of the stories of Andrew. And Bartholomew.
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  The Adventures of Andrew and Bartholomew. I think
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  that's what it's called. Is this not a children's
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  series? It should be. It should be. Isn't that
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  wild? Yes. That should be. Yes. I might make
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  this into a children's series. That would actually
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  be incredible. It'd be pretty easy to do. Right?
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  I mean, all the imagery is there. Oh, it's there.
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  Maybe it's like. Maybe tame it down a little
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  bit. For elementary kids. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's
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  wild. But I came across that and I was like.
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  Do you know how old it is? That's always my first
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  question. That I don't know. I should have checked
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  that. That's pretty wild. But yeah, I came across
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  that and I was like, wait, hold on. So Dogman
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  became a human and then a Christian? Well, so
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  that's the thing is like there are, what do they
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  call them, cryptids? Yeah. And there's a famous
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  one called the Dogman. That's right, yeah. There's
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  also a children's movie and book series called
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  Dogman. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it's pretty
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  harmless. A little bit of a weird situation going
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  on. It's called dogma. There's going to be some
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  weirdness. Yeah, but I say it's harmless. It's
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  literally chimerical. dog and human being sewn
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  together. Oh, jeez. Anyways. Well, it's interesting
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  because it reminded me of an Old Testament story.
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  Okay. Which I believe it was, was it Nebuchadnezzar?
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  Yes. Who became like a beast of the field? Yeah,
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  Nimrod is said to have done the same thing. That's
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  right, yeah. So, yeah, and it's almost like...
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  Yeah, and I was listening to a guy talk through
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  the Hebrew language around the Ruach, the spirit
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  of God in the Hebrew Old Testament. And one of
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  the things he talked about is that idea that
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  each is given a Ruach. And then there's another
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  Hebrew word that lands somewhere in the Ra, the
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  cousin of that. Yeah. That breath changes or
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  that type of spirit is changed in a way that
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  would push someone into a beast reality. But
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  so the question that I would have here, like,
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  so when you say, like, what makes a human a human?
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  Yeah. And that's an interesting question. Yes.
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  But in order to qualify this beast into that
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  category, in fact, it actually sounds like beauty
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  in the beast. A little bit. And the beast in
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  that story's origin is human. Yes. So like if
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  this origin comes from human turned towards beast
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  like a Nebuchadnezzar. And that's where I'd be
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  curious to find out. Or a Nimrod. Yeah. Then
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  it would be an emptying of that spirit. Yeah.
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  Or that bad spirit in order to put in a new Ruach
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  or a new spirit. In order to, yeah, bring him
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  to be Christian. But the idea that his head is
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  a dog's head? Yeah. I'm not sure. Because I think
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  at that point you're talking about it. Might
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  kind of look like one? Yeah. You're kind of talking
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  about an incorruptible being at that point. Yeah.
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  Like a chimerical creature. Right. Is traditionally
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  an immortal beast. Yeah. But what's interesting
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  about it, though, is even his names, depending
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  on the tradition. Oh. He's given two different
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  ones. One of them is abominable. Right. Which
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  could just mean like, look at this thing. Yes.
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  It gives no origin story. The other one is bewitched.
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  Hmm. And it's like with that, it's like that
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  does kind of give you. Like divination. Yeah.
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  It does. He's the product of a curse or some
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  kind of. Yes. Which is what Beast would be in
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  Beauty and the Beast. Yes. Which that makes sense.
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  And you kind of see that. But in the story, he
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  doesn't stop having a dog head. Right. Hello,
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  Mr. Doghead. It doesn't say he doesn't. Yeah,
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  fair. Because I think I read it was very... Well,
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  he speaks as a man. I guess unreliable. But there's
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  part of a tradition that says after he was baptized,
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  he became fully human. Okay. Well, let's see.
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  That would make more sense. Yeah, but that one,
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  I don't think that's... The whole story is kind
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  of like more of a legend than anything. Because
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  it's an apocryphal work. We got to do that. The
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  Adventures of Bartholomew and Andrew. Andrew
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  and Bartholomew. A and B. A and B. I love it.
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  That's a really good idea. That's a wild story
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  though. Yeah. But I think what's interesting
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  about that is because, I mean, it does fall into
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  like the legendary side of Christian texts. Yeah.
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  I don't know that I would call it a Christian
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  text. But fair. Yeah, fair enough. An apocryphal
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  Christian text. Yeah, yeah. It has a Christian
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  bent to it of spreading the gospel. Yeah, it
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  uses Christian characters. Yeah. And it's one
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  of those where it kind of, because especially
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  when we've done other episodes looking at like
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  gnomes or unicorns or something like that, it's
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  like, okay, there is some evidence for these
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  magical beasts or creatures. And it's like, is
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  this thing outside the realm of possibility?
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  Well, if you're a big Bigfoot guy, you'd say
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  no. Yeah. But based on what we experience in
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  our normal lives, we would say, yeah, this is
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  ridiculous. Probably. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I
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  mean, yeah, again, like if this was a thousand
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  years ago. Yeah. It might be more like, oh, okay.
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  Yeah, I've heard that story before. Yeah. It
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  also asks the question, is anything too far gone?
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  Right. Like can God's grace save? And that's
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  a big question for sure. Well, I mean, I would
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  say that God can do whatever he wants. Yes. But
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  there is a precedent set of those that are eternal
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  without a corruptible body. Yeah. When they make
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  a decision, they've made their decision. Yeah.
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  You know what I mean? And I think that's why
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  it's big. We see when Adam and Eve are cast out
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  of the garden, there are guards. So they would
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  not reach the tree of life and live forever.
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  Right. And it's like, well, the fact that we
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  can die is what makes us redeemable. Exactly.
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  Yeah. So that, that would be the question is
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  like, does this person start as a human or does
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  this person, the result of, um, interbreeding
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  by through watcher technology. Right. And that's
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  where, At least from what I've seen, we don't
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  have that origin to him. But what is interesting
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  to me, I guess with this story, is the question
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  that it caused the early church to ask was not,
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  are these things real? It was, what makes a human
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  a human? Yeah, yeah. It's like, wait, that was
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  your question? Yeah, that's kind of funny. I
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  mean, in the same way with the resurrection of
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  Christ. Right. Where at the time, the question
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  wasn't that he rose from the dead. It was, why
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  would you worship a crucified God? Yeah, exactly.
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  Like, yeah, I'm sure he resurrected, but he's
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  humiliated. Right. Well, because they had heard
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  of resurrection before. Right. Yeah. But they
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  hadn't heard of a story about a loser. Yes. You
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  know what I mean? Being the winner. Yeah, exactly.
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  And it's weird because it's questions that, the
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  reason I bring that up is it's questions that
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  we wouldn't think to ask. Sure. Because when
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  I read that story, it's like, is that a real
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  thing? Yeah. It's not, what makes a human a human?
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  Right. Yeah, fair. I think my first question
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  was, what makes a human a human? That's awesome.
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  Well, we've been in here a little bit longer.
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  That's fair. That's fair. This has been our world.
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  So really it would be, dear listener. In the
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  ecosphere. Yeah, in the ecosphere. We need to
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  make those shirts. Really, the question would
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  be to our listeners, if you, well, not a question,
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  but a warning. If you're in the woods and you
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  see a dog -headed man, double check that it doesn't
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  also speak like a human. Ask him if he knows
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  Jesus. Yeah. That's a good, yeah, fair. Just
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  ask him if he knows Jesus. Everyone's out there
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  hunting Bigfoot. Did anyone ever try to preach
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  to Bigfoot? That's why we can't catch him. Everyone's
• 15:17
  trying to take a picture, but share the gospel
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  first. Yeah, hand him a Bible. Yeah, yeah. See
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  what happens. See if that freezes him. He's like,
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  huh? Or he might turn to dust. That would be
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  crazy. That would be crazy. But then my real
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  question would be, are labradoodles chimeric
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  creatures? Three, two, one. A spark slithered
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  through heavenly light, Wield in his hand like
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  stolen sunrise, A fire in the dark of mortal
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  eyes, Who lit the flame that gods could attain,
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  Carried heaven down like rain, And every torch,
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  every scar, burns beneath the falling star. He
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  lit the flames that God could tame, carried heaven
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  down like rain. And every torch, every scar,
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  burns beneath the falling star. before mankind
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  built cities before iron screamed against iron
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  on the battlefield before furnaces glowed in
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  the darkness the ancient world remembered a story
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  there was a time when heaven possessed something
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  earth did not fire but not merely flame Fire
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  meant knowledge, technology, civilization, the
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  ability to take the raw materials of creation
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  and transform the world. And according to the
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  story, heaven had not intended mankind to possess
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  it. But someone crossed the boundary. He wasn't
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  human. He belonged to an older race, beings who
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  existed before the present order of the gods.
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  And somewhere in the primordial past, this heavenly
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  being looked down upon humanity and decided men
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  should possess what heaven had withheld. So he
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  stole it. He brought the secret down from the
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  realm of the gods and placed it into human hands.
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  Suddenly, mankind could burn forests, forge metal,
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  fashion weapons, build civilizations, and push
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  back the darkness. But heaven noticed. The one
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  who revealed the secret was seized, bound, imprisoned,
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  condemned to supernatural punishment while humanity
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  continued living with the knowledge he had given
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  them. A heavenly being. Forbidden knowledge.
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  Knowledge delivered to mankind. Civilization
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  transformed and the heavenly rebel bound for
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  what he had done. It almost sounds biblical,
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  but this isn't Genesis. It isn't Enoch either.
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  The Greeks called him Prometheus. So here's the
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  question. Why does one of Greek's oldest myths
• 18:41
  sound strangely similar to what the ancient Jewish
• 18:45
  world said happened before the flood? So Paul.
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  Yeah. Is fire bad? Fire bad. Fire bad. You know,
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  I feel like that's such a, just the concept of
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  fire. And I mean this only not the extra meaning
• 19:08
  of like knowledge and technology. Yeah. But just
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  the idea of like fire is like the flame. Yeah.
• 19:16
  Fire as in flame. You know, the flame, the hot
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  stuff. Yeah. I think it's interesting because
• 19:22
  there are benefits that we get from it. Sure.
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  And I think we naturally look to it as an only
• 19:31
  good thing. Yeah. But there is evil that also
• 19:35
  comes from it. Yeah. Well, yeah. And I think
• 19:39
  that's what's weird. It's like when we look at
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  it for like cooking, it's like, oh, yeah, it
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  makes our food better. Yeah. Or if anything,
• 19:46
  tastier. It sounds like what you're saying, like
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  that's kind of the argument of are guns bad?
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  Right. Or like the guns kill people. Yeah. It's
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  like, no, people kill people is what people say.
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  Yeah. But it's like, yeah, but if there were
• 19:59
  no guns, then they couldn't. kill them with guns.
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  And that's the other idea of it. It's like, yeah,
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  if no one, I mean, even just looking at like
• 20:06
  a sword, it's like if no one had swords and no
• 20:08
  one would stab each other. Right. It's a, it's
• 20:10
  a logical statement. Yeah. It's, it goes back
• 20:13
  to like, if my mom had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.
• 20:16
  That's right. I love that clip. I know. So like,
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  that's, that's the whole, it's like, yeah. So
• 20:23
  if people don't have guns, they can't shoot people.
• 20:26
  Right. If we don't have fire, then we can't burn
• 20:28
  down forests. Yeah. And we can't make, swords
• 20:31
  right then we won't have swords and people can't
• 20:34
  get stabbed with swords right so it is an interesting
• 20:37
  thing of like it is anything all bad i would
• 20:43
  and that's what's tough is like i'm not sure
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  that's a question we're allowed to answer i don't
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  even know if you can answer it well it goes to
• 20:51
  the idea that and i think like created things
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  are good okay if they're within their intended
• 20:58
  use And so what I mean by that and then bringing
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  it to fire is like, I mean, there's a lot of
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  things we can look at in our daily life where
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  it's like, okay, this is a good thing, but it
• 21:06
  can be taken in excess to harm. Sure. Or taken
• 21:09
  out of context and now it's harmful. Yeah. But
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  then there's things where to us it's completely
• 21:17
  bad because it was never meant for us to begin
• 21:19
  with. Okay, yeah. And I think that's even bringing
• 21:24
  like Enoch into it. Yeah. It's like that's...
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  one of his arguments when it comes to what the
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  Watchers gave to humanity, which is root cutting
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  and then understanding how to forge weapons.
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  It's like, well, yeah, so if we look at root
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  cutting, those two examples, it's like, well,
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  yeah, there's a good thing from that because
• 21:43
  we can make stuff that helps us feel better.
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  Sure. As far as like, oh, it's medicinal. If
• 21:48
  I rub this root on me, then it's like, now it
• 21:51
  heals my cut. Yeah. Or it helps purify it. But
• 21:55
  then there's the other side of it where it turns
• 21:56
  into now we've created hallucinogenics, which
• 21:59
  open up a whole other can of worms that's harmful
• 22:01
  to us. There's a lot of people that argue otherwise,
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  but let's take it as a forefront. But then we
• 22:07
  look at like weaponry. Yeah. And it's like, well,
• 22:10
  that was an idea that was never given to us by
• 22:13
  God. Sure. And now it's been introduced and it's
• 22:16
  only caused harm. Yeah. Yeah, but then, okay,
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  so then there's a question before that question.
• 22:22
  Okay. The question before that question is, are
• 22:26
  we like, so with the instance of like root cutting,
• 22:30
  so making medicines, right? Well, if you go from
• 22:35
  a biblical worldview, then looking at Adam and
• 22:39
  Eve in the garden, if they needed anything, they
• 22:43
  had a process in which they communed with God.
• 22:45
  Right. And when they commune with God, whatever
• 22:49
  they needed came. Yes. So what they needed came
• 22:52
  through the source. Yeah. But if you know how
• 22:56
  to create what you think you need, then you don't
• 23:00
  need to go to the source. Yes, that's true. So
• 23:04
  the knowledge that comes in a secondary fashion,
• 23:07
  not from God in a biblical worldview, would necessarily
• 23:12
  be inherently... Like what it is, is not bad.
• 23:18
  We would just be able to use it whenever we want,
• 23:20
  which would create opportunity for us to use
• 23:23
  it in ways not intended. Yeah. So yeah, that
• 23:29
  would be that idea. Like, and it's kind of a
• 23:31
  tricky, uh, logical or it's kind of a tricky
• 23:37
  logic. You know what I mean? Because it's like,
• 23:41
  if we needed something to cut something. Sure.
• 23:45
  then it would make sense that we have a blade.
• 23:49
  Right. Or maybe there was a way to cut something
• 23:53
  that didn't involve a blade. And that's possible.
• 23:57
  But the thing is, is because we have a blade,
• 23:59
  we won't know what that is. Yeah. So there is
• 24:02
  an argument to be made that the things, the technologies
• 24:06
  that we have now are not the... Proper technologies
• 24:12
  for the way God created everything. And I think
• 24:15
  there's some basis to that as well. It's like
• 24:19
  a lesser technology. Yeah. So like that idea,
• 24:23
  like when you say Enoch, like if you look at
• 24:25
  the book of Enoch and the knowledge that was
• 24:27
  given from the Watchers to humanity, that potentially
• 24:32
  was a lesser knowledge that made humanity digress.
• 24:38
  Yeah. In ability where we're hacking at wood
• 24:42
  versus moving in harmony in the use of it. Right.
• 24:47
  So like it because because you only know what
• 24:51
  you know, it's hard to say that without the tools,
• 24:56
  there would be a better way. Yeah. Because we've
• 24:59
  lost what that way. We only know the tools. Exactly.
• 25:02
  Yeah. So, yeah. So it's like. Because in the
• 25:08
  conversation of the gun or the sword, you're
• 25:12
  asking, what's the best way to kill somebody?
• 25:15
  And it's very efficient. Right. But if you go,
• 25:19
  okay, well, what question would I ask that gun
• 25:22
  would be the answer? How can I best kill animal?
• 25:28
  Right, hunting. Right. Which would be the best
• 25:32
  case of it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I... Or just
• 25:36
  the sport of shooting random things. Sure. Yeah,
• 25:39
  it's a hobby. That would be probably the purest
• 25:42
  form of it. Yeah, I think so. And again, I'm
• 25:45
  not against hunting. Right. I am against hunting
• 25:48
  people, but, you know. Yes. Anyways, but it's
• 25:56
  the idea that we don't know the higher way because
• 26:00
  we were given the lesser tool. Right. Would kind
• 26:03
  of be my argument. Yeah. But also we're getting
• 26:05
  really deep into philosophy. Yes. And we just
• 26:09
  talked about a guy named Prometheus, and I don't
• 26:11
  think anybody knows what we're talking about.
• 26:13
  Okay, that's fair. So before we go further, because
• 26:15
  I got a lot more I could say. I know. Let's talk
• 26:17
  about Prometheus. Okay. Or maybe we flesh this
• 26:20
  out. Let's talk about fire. Okay. I mean, we
• 26:24
  don't have to. We can come back to Prometheus.
• 26:26
  That's fair. Do you want to just talk about the
• 26:28
  effects of it? Well, actually, I think it might
• 26:30
  help to talk about who he is first. I think so.
• 26:33
  To help us flesh it out more. Well, because you
• 26:35
  already brought in Enoch. True. That is true.
• 26:39
  Let's talk about Prometheus. Okay, okay. And
• 26:42
  also, I know who he is. Right. But does it mean
• 26:46
  everyone knows who he is? We kind of jumped into
• 26:48
  the logic of a part two. Yeah, that's true. Without
• 26:51
  doing an initial setup. Yeah, Ferris, let's set
• 26:53
  it up. Okay. That was a teaser. All right, so
• 26:55
  who is Prometheus? So Prometheus, let me say
• 27:00
  it this way. Prometheus is a titan. Wild. Not
• 27:05
  a Tennessee titan. Yeah. And I don't know that
• 27:08
  I'll be able to say titan without pronouncing
• 27:11
  the T really hard like that. To make sure you
• 27:13
  say it? Well, I just don't. Once I've done it
• 27:16
  once, it's hard to not do it again. Okay, fair
• 27:18
  enough. Because I'm trying to be consistent in
• 27:20
  my brain. Yeah, smart. Whatever helps. These
• 27:22
  are my problems. Titans. Okay, so Titans are
• 27:27
  the divine generation preceding Zeus and the
• 27:31
  Olympians. So this is ancient. This is like the
• 27:37
  origins of the Greek pantheon. Yeah. It's the
• 27:44
  idea of like who beget who beget who beget who.
• 27:47
  So Prometheus is a precedent to a lot of what
• 27:52
  we would know as the Greek pantheon. Prometheus,
• 27:56
  therefore, is from an older divine order. His
• 28:01
  father, Laptus, and then his brothers include
• 28:06
  Atlas. Yeah. I have one of those. Epimetheus,
• 28:14
  Minotius. Epimetheus and Minotius and then Atlas.
• 28:18
  Atlas is way easier to say. Yeah, and a little
• 28:21
  more recognizable. Yeah, the interesting thing
• 28:23
  about that is Prometheus, the name in Greek means
• 28:27
  forethought. So to think ahead. Yeah, that's
• 28:31
  interesting. And then his brother Epimetheus
• 28:35
  means afterthought. Hmm. So with Prometheus,
• 28:39
  which makes sense. Yeah. Prometheus. And then
• 28:42
  Epimetheus, you have forethought and afterthought.
• 28:46
  Yeah. You have before and after. Right. Between
• 28:49
  the two brothers. And he's probably the smarter
• 28:50
  one because hindsight is 20 -20. That's fair.
• 28:54
  That's fair. And yeah. So is Prometheus supposed
• 29:00
  to be a bad guy? I think that's kind of the question.
• 29:04
  Yeah, and he's kind of... So we kind of set up
• 29:06
  the story a little bit. Yeah, and he's kind of
• 29:08
  positioned as depends on your perspective. Right.
• 29:12
  I mean, it sounds like he's the first one in.
• 29:15
  Yeah. So forethought. Yeah. Forethought gets
• 29:19
  there first. But he's not technically a bad guy.
• 29:22
  He's more so like a classic trickster. Yeah.
• 29:28
  He's rebellious, but he's sympathetic towards
• 29:31
  humanity, which is kind of cool. So he's like
• 29:33
  the classic Robin Hood almost. Yeah. He's like
• 29:37
  Prometheus would be the Pantheon's Robin Hood.
• 29:40
  Yeah. Yeah, that's true. He steals fire and gives
• 29:45
  to the not having fire. Yeah, yeah. So from humanity's
• 29:49
  perspective, Prometheus is really a hero. Right.
• 29:52
  So he's like a classic Titan. He's a hero to
• 29:55
  humanity because he brings us fire. Yeah. And
• 29:58
  it was being withheld from us by the gods. Okay,
• 30:03
  so Prometheus picks a fight with Zeus. Quick
• 30:08
  story. Prometheus tricks Zeus during a sacrifice.
• 30:11
  An animal is divided into two portions. One looks
• 30:15
  undesirable but contains the good meat. The other
• 30:18
  looks desirable but is basically bones hidden
• 30:21
  beneath attractive fat. Zeus chooses the deceptive
• 30:25
  offering. This becomes part of the Greek explanation
• 30:28
  for why humans eat sacrificial meat while the
• 30:32
  gods received the burn offering. Then Zeus retaliates.
• 30:36
  Zeus withholds fire. Prometheus basically says,
• 30:41
  nope, and he steals it back. Tradition pictures
• 30:46
  him carrying the stolen flame inside a hollow
• 30:48
  phenol stalk. Then he gives it to humanity. So
• 30:53
  he like scoops it up. You just get a handful
• 30:56
  of fire. Zeus is like, fine, I'm going to take
• 30:58
  the fire from you. And then Prometheus is like,
• 31:01
  nope, scoops it up. Yeah, with a phenol stalk.
• 31:05
  I don't even know what that is. It's probably
• 31:07
  like a, like I picture something that looks kind
• 31:10
  of like a bamboo stalk. Oh, that's fair. But
• 31:13
  like partially open. Like a lacrosse. I got a
• 31:18
  stock full of fire for you guys. Yeah, exactly.
• 31:22
  Yeah. So, yeah, that's kind of who Prometheus
• 31:27
  is and kind of what happens in the interaction
• 31:29
  with Zeus. Yeah. And how we get fire. Right.
• 31:32
  Which is kind of a, feels like a silly story.
• 31:35
  Absolutely. But yeah. You're like, you just told
• 31:39
  that to your kids to go to sleep. Yeah, exactly.
• 31:41
  So. Really the question then that we were discussing
• 31:44
  is like why does fire matter? Yeah. So like you
• 31:50
  have campfire, you have campfires, but honestly
• 31:55
  the biggest thing that we already kind of talked
• 31:57
  about is the technology that comes from the use
• 32:00
  of fire. Right. So fire as a tool creating other
• 32:03
  tools. And that's when like from like an evolutionary
• 32:06
  perspective, that's where a lot of people point
• 32:09
  to is like one man discovered fire. Yes. Yeah,
• 32:11
  exactly. And the next one being the wheel. Yeah,
• 32:13
  and then slicing bread for some reason. Yeah,
• 32:16
  that's a huge technology. Oh, that's the last
• 32:18
  good thing. Yeah, we couldn't figure anything
• 32:20
  else after that. Yeah, forget about combustion
• 32:23
  engine. I guess that's still fire. I got an idea.
• 32:25
  What if we cut this bread before we sell it?
• 32:28
  What? It's never been done. Yeah, it's pretty
• 32:33
  wild. But with fire, you have cooking, you have
• 32:37
  heat, you have light, you have pottery, metalworking,
• 32:40
  weapons, agriculture, construction, and civilization.
• 32:43
  But the thing is, what about that can we not
• 32:47
  do without? Realistically, fire for light, sure,
• 32:53
  but what if you just go to sleep when the sun
• 32:55
  goes down? Right. You know what I mean? Yeah.
• 32:59
  And then that's where we look at the idea of
• 33:00
  like, well, it's used for warmth then. But it's
• 33:02
  like, we'll just get a blanket. Yeah. But do
• 33:06
  you need fire to make a blanket? No. Fair. At
• 33:11
  least I don't think so. Well, I've never seen
• 33:14
  anybody pictured by a fireplace without a blanket
• 33:17
  on. That's true. Which is crazy because if you
• 33:19
  have a fire, you don't need a blanket. Yeah.
• 33:22
  And if you have a blanket, you don't need a fire.
• 33:23
  It's that extra level of cozy that it is. Yeah,
• 33:25
  that's fair. That's fair. But yeah, and then
• 33:29
  like some of the argument would be, the biggest
• 33:32
  argument would be metalworking. Because even
• 33:35
  with pottery, you don't need fire. Yeah. Like
• 33:38
  you can, like, yeah, you don't necessarily need
• 33:42
  that. But yeah. So then in what ways would fire
• 33:46
  be good? Yeah, and that's where... It gets into
• 33:51
  this whole weird kind of idea depending on how
• 33:55
  you want to go to it. But at least from our perspective,
• 33:59
  it's like, well, it allows us to create more
• 34:02
  technology to take dominion of the earth or to
• 34:07
  tame the earth. Okay. Because it's like from
• 34:10
  our perspective now, it's like, okay, if I want
• 34:12
  to build a house. Sure. Shelter's good. Yeah.
• 34:15
  It's like, well, now we need to go down and chop
• 34:18
  a tree. Yeah. It's like, okay. I chopped the
• 34:20
  tree down. Yeah. And now I've got to cut it up.
• 34:24
  Sure. Into usable boards. Yeah. And then I've
• 34:27
  got to let those boards dry out a little bit.
• 34:30
  Right. And it's like, okay, a lot of times they
• 34:32
  use fire for that. Sure. And then now I need
• 34:36
  to hold all this wood together. So now I need
• 34:39
  to go craft nails. Yes. Or screws to hold this
• 34:43
  thing in place. Yeah, because they weren't, you
• 34:46
  know, taking horse hair to make glue yet. Right.
• 34:48
  Yeah. I think that came later. Could have changed
• 34:53
  the trajectory. Glue is the next invention. And
• 34:57
  they didn't know what xanthan gum was. Xanthan
• 34:59
  gum. That's wild. So it's like from our perspective,
• 35:04
  it's like, oh yeah, fire is good because without
• 35:06
  fire, we wouldn't be able to achieve those things.
• 35:09
  But it goes, I like what you said in the sense
• 35:10
  that it goes back to the original purpose. Like
• 35:13
  humanity has this longing within them to create
• 35:16
  order and chaos, to subdue the earth. So that's
• 35:20
  the command of God. So then we look at something
• 35:22
  like fire and we go, well, this helps us do what
• 35:24
  God told us to do. Right. The problem is, that
• 35:28
  allows us to do it without asking God what he
• 35:31
  wants us to do or how he wants us to do it. The
• 35:34
  philosophical question we were kind of going
• 35:35
  to is like, yeah, how did he want us to do it?
• 35:37
  That's the question. Yeah. So it's like, because
• 35:40
  other gods are giving us knowledge, it answers
• 35:45
  the question of how, which takes out the communication
• 35:47
  to God. Right. Because we have the desire placed
• 35:51
  in us, so we know why. Yes. And we know what.
• 35:56
  but we don't know how. So we can look at it and
• 36:00
  go, all right, I need to be able to eat. I need
• 36:03
  to be able to clothe myself and find shelter.
• 36:05
  But how do I do that? It removes prayer to God.
• 36:09
  It removes communication to God because we don't
• 36:13
  need that. We can just go, well, here are tools.
• 36:15
  So this is how I can do it. Let me ask other
• 36:19
  people or seek out knowledge versus asking. creator
• 36:24
  god yeah so yeah it's kind of interesting um
• 36:28
  but fire doesn't make man good it makes man powerful
• 36:33
  right and that's that's kind of the argument
• 36:36
  a little bit is like how we do it also gives
• 36:41
  us power because we then step into this place
• 36:44
  of we have created something without god yeah
• 36:49
  once we do that there's a different level of
• 36:51
  power that we start to seek You know, it's interesting
• 36:54
  because what that makes me think of is we talk
• 36:57
  about like man's the highest on the animal. Right.
• 37:01
  What's that word? Hierarchy. Hierarchy, I guess.
• 37:05
  Yeah, yeah. I think there's a food chain, I guess.
• 37:08
  Yeah, there is. That's what you're looking for.
• 37:09
  The food chain. Yeah. So it's like, okay, so
• 37:11
  yeah, we're, and when we look at it, it's like,
• 37:14
  well, we're not technically the fastest. Yeah.
• 37:15
  We're not the strongest. Yeah. But we can think
• 37:18
  a little better than most of them. Sure. But
• 37:22
  what's interesting is that when God created everything,
• 37:25
  he gave humanity dominion and authority over
• 37:29
  all of creation. Right. All over the beasts and
• 37:33
  the animals and everything. Right. But then now,
• 37:35
  post -fall, we actually have to prove our authority
• 37:40
  over them. Yeah. We have to take it by brute
• 37:43
  force. Fair. Because instead of just like, oh,
• 37:46
  yeah, we have authority over them, however that
• 37:47
  may have looked. Yeah. Now it's like, oh, I've
• 37:50
  got to kill them and prove that I'm better than
• 37:52
  them. Yeah. So if you look at the larger Prometheus
• 37:54
  story, particularly in Prometheus Bound, Prometheus
• 37:59
  claims responsibility. Now I'm doing what you
• 38:02
  did. I've been waiting for you to do that. Prometheus.
• 38:05
  It's right on the edge. Prometheus, you have
• 38:07
  to hit the. The pro really hard. You have to
• 38:10
  start strong. Prometheus claims responsibility
• 38:13
  for teaching mankind things associated with civilization.
• 38:17
  Yeah. Things like writing, numbers, medicine,
• 38:20
  navigation, domestication, divination. Yeah.
• 38:26
  Understanding nature and technical knowledge.
• 38:31
  That's way more than just fire. Yes. So then
• 38:34
  what is Prometheus actually giving humanity?
• 38:38
  Like Prometheus is not just giving fire. What
• 38:41
  is he actually giving? He's actually giving knowledge.
• 38:43
  Right. Yeah. Yeah. So Prometheus is giving knowledge.
• 38:47
  Yeah. So you already talked about Enoch. Yes.
• 38:49
  But obviously we're going to jump to like parallels
• 38:53
  of what does this look like in relationship to
• 38:56
  the biblical text? And how do these things land
• 38:58
  next to each other? And like a lot of people
• 39:01
  would bring in the argument of things stolen
• 39:05
  for the Bible versus. Because that's honestly
• 39:09
  a big thing is like the Bible is never claiming.
• 39:12
  In fact, the more you look at the original text,
• 39:16
  the Bible is intentionally not claiming to steal
• 39:19
  things or to be the first text. Yeah. In a lot
• 39:24
  of ways, it's God walking into a party already
• 39:26
  happening going, whoa, hang on. This is not what
• 39:32
  we talked about. It's a party that he planned.
• 39:35
  Yeah. And then he shows up and like, what the?
• 39:38
  Guys, this is not what we made all this for.
• 39:40
  Did you read the list? That's basically what
• 39:44
  the Bible is. Yeah. Is God walking into the party
• 39:46
  going, we talked about this. None of you are
• 39:51
  doing your job. This is supposed to be over here.
• 39:53
  This is supposed to work like this. You didn't
• 39:56
  create that. I created you. And this is supposed
• 39:59
  to work this way. Like, what are you guys doing?
• 40:02
  And then he's like, all right, you wrap those,
• 40:05
  bind those guys up, throw those guys in the back
• 40:07
  of the truck. But yeah, so Prometheus in the
• 40:12
  Greek pantheon, in the origins of the Greek pantheon
• 40:17
  is really that archetype. A being that's associated
• 40:21
  with heaven and gives mankind knowledge that
• 40:26
  fundamentally changes human civilization. Yeah.
• 40:29
  So Prometheus is kind of like the, not the Rosetta
• 40:33
  Stone, but like the spark. Yeah. I mean, technically,
• 40:38
  yeah. He brings a spark. He steals a spark from
• 40:42
  Zeus and he brings it down to humanity and he
• 40:44
  lights the spark of knowledge of developing and
• 40:47
  building civilization. Right. So that's why Prometheus
• 40:52
  now, as other people are starting to use the
• 40:56
  reference of Prometheus when doing things like
• 40:59
  building rocket ships and hydron colliders and
• 41:05
  all of these different things, they're talking
• 41:08
  about Prometheus because Prometheus is the one
• 41:11
  who takes the knowledge from the gods and helps
• 41:14
  us develop civilization. Right. So it would make
• 41:16
  sense to reference him. But Zeus responds to
• 41:21
  Prometheus and Prometheus is taken away. He's
• 41:25
  chained to a rock and his punishment is brutal.
• 41:28
  An eagle comes and eats his liver. Yeah. While
• 41:32
  he's chained to a rock. Prometheus, however,
• 41:35
  is immortal. I was going to say immoral. That's
• 41:41
  for you to decide. He's immortal, so his liver
• 41:43
  regenerates. The eagle returns again and again
• 41:47
  and again. Eventually, Heracles, or Hercules,
• 41:52
  kills the eagle and Prometheus is released. Because
• 41:56
  now you have this pattern, does any of this sound
• 42:00
  familiar at all? Maybe a little bit. So you have
• 42:10
  this guy chained up to a rock and there's perpetual
• 42:15
  torment for the acts that they have done. And
• 42:21
  then a hybrid comes out to try and rescue him.
• 42:30
  And to really hammer it home, he also talks about
• 42:36
  Tartarus quite a bit. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Is
• 42:44
  that too on the nose? So a heavenly divine being
• 42:47
  rebels against divine authority, gives forbidden
• 42:50
  knowledge to mankind, that knowledge changes
• 42:52
  civilization, and the heavenly rebel is bound.
• 42:57
  So, yeah, I mean, as a quick recap, that sounds
• 43:02
  a lot like somebody else. Yeah. Well, then it's
• 43:07
  funny because I know in Prometheus Bound, I think
• 43:10
  it's Mercury, comes and visits him in his torment.
• 43:13
  Yeah, I think you're right. He's like, bro, you
• 43:14
  screwed up. And he's like, I don't care. Someone's
• 43:19
  going to let me out. Fair. I kind of like that.
• 43:23
  That kind of just tells the same story. Yeah.
• 43:27
  So my question is always how old is this, right?
• 43:31
  So before 700 BC. oral Greek traditions are already
• 43:36
  circulating this. So we can't know exactly how
• 43:39
  old it is, but the Prometheus tradition itself
• 43:43
  is before 700 BC. Wow. Which is pretty old. That's
• 43:49
  pretty old, yeah. And then Hesiod, around 700
• 43:55
  BC, gives us our earliest surviving substantial
• 43:59
  literary versions. So the two works are, Theogony
• 44:04
  and works and days. The important thing to note
• 44:09
  is that this means Prometheus is not some late
• 44:12
  Roman myth. It's archaic Greece. Yeah. So this
• 44:17
  is like, I mean, 700 BC is when we actually get
• 44:21
  it written down. And that means that it was tradition
• 44:25
  before that. Yeah. And arguably you could say
• 44:29
  that. So 700 BC, what we're talking about at
• 44:32
  that point is. kind of right in the middle of,
• 44:35
  arguably, and I'll just keep saying it like that,
• 44:39
  you already have the Abrahamic tradition going,
• 44:44
  right? But you don't have Greek Hellenized Roman
• 44:48
  civilization. Yeah. So it's still several hundred
• 44:53
  years out from the actual development of the
• 44:56
  Greek pantheon. As far as like writing it down
• 45:00
  and living according to Zeus and all of those
• 45:02
  things. So we have this as a tradition in Greece
• 45:05
  that precedes all of that. So before Roman Greek
• 45:10
  culture, you have Prometheus. Yeah, that's interesting.
• 45:15
  Which is kind of cool. And also it makes sense
• 45:18
  to you as far as when it was written. I think
• 45:21
  because that's one thing that culturally we...
• 45:23
  At least I forget sometimes. Yeah. I say we,
• 45:26
  but I'll just say me. Yeah. So no one feels isolated.
• 45:30
  Or pointed out. Does that make you feel better?
• 45:33
  Is that writing wasn't easy. Right. And it's
• 45:37
  like, well, for us, at least for me, it's like,
• 45:39
  let me just run to Walmart and pick up some paper
• 45:41
  and a pencil. Yeah, exactly. And I'll just scribble
• 45:43
  down whatever. I don't like that one. Let me
• 45:44
  throw it away. And it's like, no, it's like the
• 45:46
  idea of making paper or some writing tools was
• 45:51
  very difficult to do. It was expensive. And also,
• 45:55
  once you have it, now you got to be very careful
• 45:57
  what you write down because that might be your
• 46:00
  one shot at it. That's true. Yeah, and you don't
• 46:03
  want to get it close to fire. Right? Yeah. Like,
• 46:06
  no. Prometheus! Darn it! I mean, that's even
• 46:10
  with, like, earlier American settlers. Yeah,
• 46:14
  yeah. It's like, oh, yeah, there's a huge period
• 46:16
  of time where if you look at it, it's like, well,
• 46:18
  there's no American authors. Right. There's no
• 46:20
  American poets. Like, yeah, because everyone's
• 46:22
  out there being a farmer. Yeah, that's fair.
• 46:24
  They're all hunting. It's like they don't have
• 46:25
  the luxury of writing. Yeah. Yeah, it's almost
• 46:29
  like that's where you end up with children writing.
• 46:34
  Yeah. They got time. Yeah. Yeah. They find scraps.
• 46:37
  Were you writing? Time to be in the fields. So,
• 46:41
  okay. So jump ahead to the fifth century and
• 46:44
  we get Prometheus bound. So a couple hundred
• 46:46
  years later. And that's attributed to Esclite.
• 46:50
  You want to say that? Aeschylus. Thanks. I don't
• 46:54
  know if that's right. Although the authorship
• 46:57
  is disputed, this version really expands the
• 47:00
  idea of Prometheus as the champion of mankind.
• 47:03
  Because initially it was like he took fire from
• 47:06
  Zeus and brought it to people. But the Prometheus
• 47:11
  bound expands the giver of knowledge concept.
• 47:15
  So this is important because Prometheus begins
• 47:17
  changing. He's not merely a trickster who stole
• 47:20
  fire. He's becoming an archetype. which is pretty
• 47:23
  cool. Yeah. This could be a really... This...
• 47:28
  Okay. Who... I love it. Who would naturally love
• 47:32
  a story about someone defying heaven to give
• 47:36
  mankind power? I guess anyone? If you believe
• 47:43
  heaven is evil, then it's great. Yeah. But...
• 47:48
  Yeah, so as you go through in a literary sense,
• 47:50
  you get all of this, like Prometheus becomes
• 47:53
  this archetype of the person, like a Robin Hood,
• 47:55
  the type of person who would defy the odds, defy
• 48:00
  the gods, and go and grab something in order
• 48:04
  to bring it to someone he cares about. Yes. Because
• 48:08
  in the way that Prometheus is expressed, it's
• 48:11
  like he looks down at humanity and wants good
• 48:16
  for it like he wants them to have it yeah like
• 48:19
  he wants us to have this thing so for from humanity's
• 48:23
  perspective it's like oh this this um great being
• 48:26
  that has has cared for us enough to bring us
• 48:30
  something yeah you know what i mean the bringer
• 48:33
  of knowledge who would bring all this to us right
• 48:35
  it's kind of interesting yeah it's an interesting
• 48:38
  idea and at least the way they position him like
• 48:41
  you're saying is that he is this He has done
• 48:44
  good for humanity. So of course we looked at
• 48:45
  him as like, yeah, he's good. Yeah. And the rest
• 48:47
  of the gods are against us. Right. Yeah. So like
• 48:50
  there's a lot of authors and stuff that kind
• 48:52
  of pull from Prometheus. Like one of the examples
• 48:57
  is Frankenstein. Oh yeah. Which is kind of interesting.
• 49:00
  Yeah. So like. That is an interesting book. Yeah.
• 49:04
  Just the more I read it. Yeah. Well, and it's.
• 49:09
  So like the larger, the fuller title of Frankenstein
• 49:12
  was Frankenstein or the modern Prometheus. So
• 49:16
  like getting into that idea, like Frankenstein
• 49:19
  as Prometheus, where he's developing something,
• 49:23
  he's bringing knowledge, he's crossing these
• 49:25
  boundaries where he's creating something that
• 49:27
  shouldn't be created, knowledge that we shouldn't
• 49:31
  have. I mean, even when you look at the Frankenstein's
• 49:35
  monster, it's like really... This idea that it's
• 49:40
  a long -term development of being able to help
• 49:42
  people by doing early prosthetics. Right. Yeah.
• 49:51
  And the medicinal elements of how far the humans
• 49:54
  can go with certain knowledge to be able to preserve
• 49:57
  life. Yeah. And it kind of like Frankenstein,
• 50:00
  the book, asks that secondary part of the question
• 50:04
  that Prometheus offers up. Yeah. Which is like,
• 50:07
  so what's evil? Yeah. Because in the Frankenstein,
• 50:11
  it's like, well, the monster when he was created,
• 50:13
  was he inherently evil or did society corrupt
• 50:16
  him? Yeah. Like that's the philosophical question.
• 50:19
  So it's like when Prometheus brings us fire,
• 50:21
  is the fire evil? Yeah. Or is what we do to it
• 50:24
  evil? Yeah. And then is, yeah, that's fair. So
• 50:28
  then the fire itself is kind of the Frankenstein's
• 50:31
  monster. Right. It's the knowledge itself. Yeah.
• 50:34
  Yeah, and then Karl Marx, the great Karl Marx.
• 50:39
  We should get a picture of him framed. Yeah,
• 50:41
  yeah. Or like, was it a bust? Oh, yeah. Like
• 50:48
  one of those stone figures. If you sign up for
• 50:50
  our Patreon, we'll send you one. Yeah, if you
• 50:53
  want to start us a Patreon, we'll send you a
• 50:55
  bust. Of Karl Marx. That's awesome. Karl Marx
• 51:04
  invokes Prometheus approvingly in his early intellectual
• 51:07
  work. Prometheus becomes useful as a symbol of
• 51:10
  rebellion against established divine and earthly
• 51:14
  authority. So Prometheus becomes bigger than
• 51:19
  mythology in this scenario. So even somebody
• 51:22
  like that is like, let's push against and rebel
• 51:25
  against. the norm, the structure. Like they're
• 51:28
  keeping information from us. And that's really
• 51:31
  what like Prometheus is the one that does proper
• 51:36
  rebellion in the eyes of humanity. Right. The
• 51:39
  same way that like the serpent in the garden
• 51:41
  is going, hey, let me grab, like this is knowledge.
• 51:47
  Why would God keep you from knowledge? You know,
• 51:49
  and Prometheus is saying the same thing. Why
• 51:51
  would the gods keep you from fire? Yeah. This
• 51:55
  is knowledge you could have. Why would they not
• 51:59
  give it to you? Right. And he becomes the ignorant
• 52:02
  one. Yeah. Right? Yeah, it's true. So it's an
• 52:04
  interesting layout, but yeah. So Genesis 3 is
• 52:08
  a huge parallel. Absolutely. And it's interesting
• 52:13
  because it does, in a different context, make
• 52:17
  us ask the question of like, all right, so who
• 52:19
  is really good? Yeah. God establishes a boundary.
• 52:23
  There is knowledge mankind is prohibited from
• 52:27
  taking. And I would argue prohibited from taking
• 52:30
  at the wrong time for the wrong thing. Yeah,
• 52:33
  I think so. Not that God was withholding knowledge
• 52:35
  from Adam, but instead that God was only giving
• 52:40
  what was needed in the moment. Yeah. Which promotes
• 52:43
  relationship. I mean, we see that relationship.
• 52:48
  throughout scripture. I mean, the one that comes
• 52:50
  to mind first is the Israelites in the wilderness.
• 52:52
  Sure. Where it's like, okay, I'm going to give
• 52:54
  you food for the day. Well, right. So did they
• 52:58
  need fire for that? No, it came from heaven.
• 53:00
  Exactly. They just collected it. Exactly. That
• 53:01
  was the other part of it that made me think of
• 53:03
  it. Yeah. But that's an interesting one too,
• 53:05
  where it's like, okay, here's this for today.
• 53:07
  But if you collect more than you need, it'll
• 53:10
  be rotten by tomorrow. But guess what was behind
• 53:12
  them? A pillar of fire. Oh, that's right. Yeah,
• 53:15
  that's right. I was like, I totally forgot about
• 53:17
  that. So then you think about that. It's like
• 53:19
  there was a cloud ahead and a pillar of fire
• 53:22
  behind. So they had the light that they needed.
• 53:25
  Did they make the pillar of fire and walk around
• 53:27
  with torches? No. That's not what the Bible says.
• 53:30
  So it's kind of interesting. It's like, it's
• 53:31
  not that fire wasn't accessible to humanity or
• 53:35
  wasn't going to be. It was just only going to
• 53:38
  be used when needed. And that, I mean, we see
• 53:41
  that even from God himself. When he talks about
• 53:44
  using fire as a form of purification. Right.
• 53:47
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Also, it makes me think
• 53:51
  of the Lord's Prayer and the idea that Jesus
• 53:55
  is saying like, only ask for what you need daily.
• 53:59
  Yeah. That brings us all the way back to the
• 54:02
  garden. That's right. In a way that's like pretty
• 54:04
  interesting where Jesus is like, look, you don't
• 54:07
  need to plan. Like, and build the tools you'll
• 54:12
  need for tomorrow. The Lord will provide that.
• 54:14
  Yeah. And it's funny because like modern wisdom
• 54:18
  would say like, well, no, you need to build the
• 54:21
  tools for today. You need to build the tools
• 54:24
  for tomorrow. Yeah. Like, I feel like that's
• 54:26
  like if you're on a Disney wheel of progress
• 54:29
  today, we have to build the tools we're going
• 54:32
  to need for tomorrow. It's like, well, that sounds
• 54:35
  like Prometheus. It doesn't sound like Yahweh.
• 54:37
  Right. That's true. Yeah. So it's a little bit
• 54:40
  like, hmm, like who's following who? Because
• 54:42
  Yahweh says, ask, or Jesus says, ask today what
• 54:47
  you, that the Lord would give you what you need
• 54:49
  for today. Yeah. That you would have the strength,
• 54:51
  you would have the daily bread, you would have
• 54:53
  what you needed. And there's that idea of if
• 54:55
  you do that and you walk in that, then you start
• 54:58
  the day and you do the things you need for the
• 55:00
  day. And then in the evening you rest and then
• 55:02
  tomorrow will take care of itself. Yeah. That's
• 55:05
  Matthew 5, 6, and 7. Right. Which is very much
• 55:09
  like stop trying to build something that the
• 55:12
  Lord is not daily giving you the tools to do.
• 55:15
  Yeah. Which is pretty interesting. So yeah, so
• 55:19
  then a supernatural being enters the story in
• 55:22
  the garden, right? And the serpent challenges
• 55:25
  God's prohibition. humanity crosses that boundary
• 55:29
  they acquire the knowledge their eyes are open
• 55:31
  and consequences follow so is the bible anti
• 55:36
  -knowledge which is an interesting question that's
• 55:39
  an interesting question um yeah what are your
• 55:42
  thoughts um i would have to say no and i'll well
• 55:49
  let me say it this way the short answer is no
• 55:51
  okay but the longer answer and i'll give you
• 55:54
  the example one is like no it's not against knowledge
• 55:58
  but it is against knowledge at the wrong time
• 56:00
  okay and i think prophecy is a great example
• 56:03
  of that yeah where it's like okay let me give
• 56:07
  you something we look at daniel or even revelation
• 56:09
  which is the big one yeah it's like let me give
• 56:11
  you something that's going to be for the future
• 56:14
  sure but i'm not going to tell you all of it
• 56:16
  and there's even some stuff that i'm going to
• 56:19
  tell daniel but he's going to hold on to it Oh,
• 56:21
  yeah. Because it's not ready for you yet. Right.
• 56:23
  And it's not that it's never for you. Right.
• 56:26
  It is, but not now. Yeah. No, and that's a really
• 56:28
  good point. And honestly, along those same lines,
• 56:32
  when we take Prometheus and we talk about that
• 56:35
  idea, and earlier we talked about this a little
• 56:38
  bit, but when you take that idea and you go,
• 56:40
  all right, this really makes me think of Genesis
• 56:42
  3. Yeah. Well, it kind of makes me think more
• 56:46
  of Genesis 6. Yeah. And the relationship of the
• 56:53
  watchers. Yeah. Because in Genesis chapter six,
• 56:56
  you have the watchers in the Enoch tradition.
• 57:02
  Yeah. Bringing knowledge in exchange for the
• 57:05
  daughters of men to marry the daughters of men.
• 57:07
  Yeah. So in that sense, Prometheus really...
• 57:12
  Reminds me more of the Watchers. Yes. And also
• 57:16
  just story -wise, he fits in perfectly with the
• 57:18
  Watchers. Much more so. Yeah. But at the same
• 57:23
  time, he is kind of an archetype of the whole
• 57:25
  thing. Right. Yes. So in some ways, you have
• 57:30
  this bringing of knowledge or an exposure or
• 57:34
  an opening to the gateway of knowledge in Genesis
• 57:37
  3. And then Genesis chapter 6, you have... the
• 57:42
  bringing the knowledge down to. Yeah. So like
• 57:45
  that is a little bit closer where Prometheus
• 57:48
  is actually bringing the not scooping it up,
• 57:50
  bringing it down to humanity. Yeah. And that's
• 57:52
  what we see with Genesis chapter six. Yeah. And
• 57:55
  that takes me back to our, our myth series that
• 57:59
  we talked about since we're right in here. It's
• 58:01
  like using, using language to describe both natural
• 58:06
  and supernatural events. Yeah. And I think that's
• 58:09
  the example of even with Prometheus when it talks
• 58:11
  about fire. It's like, well, it's not actually
• 58:13
  fire. Right. It's all of this other stuff. Right.
• 58:16
  But we're going to summarize it by calling it
• 58:18
  fire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because of our cultural
• 58:20
  context around fire. Sure. And then when we look
• 58:24
  at even Genesis 3, it's like, well, was it actually
• 58:26
  a fruit from a tree in the garden? Well, it's
• 58:30
  like there's a lot of debate about that. Yeah.
• 58:32
  Some people say like, yeah, it actually was.
• 58:34
  That's the literary. Or not literary, but that's
• 58:37
  the actual thing that happened. It was there.
• 58:39
  Other people would argue it's like, no, it's
• 58:41
  a literary device to refer to knowledge. Well,
• 58:44
  I think that argument is strong when you look
• 58:47
  at spiritual gifts in the New Testament. Right,
• 58:50
  yeah. Or you talk about the fruit of the Spirit
• 58:53
  in the New Testament. You go, well, is that apples
• 58:57
  and oranges? Because if it's not, then the idea
• 59:00
  that the fruit in the garden is apples and oranges?
• 59:04
  then that doesn't make any sense. Right. Like
• 59:06
  it's either one or the other in both scenarios.
• 59:10
  And I'm inclined to be more on the side of it's
• 59:13
  a literary device to refer to knowledge. Right.
• 59:18
  Because like you just said too, we see it in
• 59:20
  other areas. Yeah. Well, it's the fruit of the
• 59:22
  tree. And also looking at what it actually is.
• 59:24
  Yes. Like what does it actually do? Right. Yeah.
• 59:28
  Well, and we, I mean, we know that it opens their
• 59:31
  eyes to be like God. Right. But being like God
• 59:35
  is not like a really good fruit. Yeah. Yeah.
• 59:38
  It's like a Willy Wonka. Must've been like a
• 59:41
  mango or something. Like, oh man. Yeah. But even
• 59:47
  like, even before, okay. So like the, the ancient
• 59:51
  Hebrews, as they're going through, they're reading
• 59:54
  Genesis and the sons of God are descending down.
• 59:56
  They take the human women, the Nephilim appear.
• 59:59
  the human wickedness becomes great and the flood
• 1:00:02
  follows. Yeah. Genesis doesn't tell us much more
• 1:00:05
  than that. But the ancient Jews wanted to know
• 1:00:08
  what exactly did these things do, right? And
• 1:00:12
  then that's where we get the Enochian tradition,
• 1:00:14
  or I guess the Enoch tradition. I feel like if
• 1:00:16
  you say Enochian, it leads you somewhere else.
• 1:00:18
  I mean, there's kind of like a two -sided to
• 1:00:20
  that as well. Sure. It's not like, here's the
• 1:00:23
  Bible written. We don't really know what's going
• 1:00:24
  on. Right. So let's make it up or figure it out.
• 1:00:27
  No, yeah. It's like, no, culturally, Scripture
• 1:00:30
  does it a lot where it's not going to give you
• 1:00:32
  a whole exhaustive description of history. Right.
• 1:00:37
  Because you already know. Yeah. It's like we've
• 1:00:40
  talked about in the beginning. It's like Scripture
• 1:00:42
  is written as a correction to what was already
• 1:00:45
  happening. Right. So everyone knows what's already
• 1:00:47
  happening. We don't know what was already happening
• 1:00:49
  because we don't live there. But to everyone
• 1:00:52
  there, it's like, oh, yeah, we knew all these
• 1:00:54
  stories. Oh, really? It was that instead of this?
• 1:00:57
  Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Well, and
• 1:00:59
  if you look at it too in parallel, you have the
• 1:01:02
  Prometheus story written down in 700 BC. Yeah.
• 1:01:07
  And then the oral tradition was much older. Right.
• 1:01:09
  And then you get Prometheus bound in 500 BC.
• 1:01:13
  Yeah. A couple hundred years later. And in the
• 1:01:15
  progression of that, you go from fire, taking
• 1:01:18
  fire, to bringer of knowledge. Right. So the
• 1:01:23
  Bible and Enoch. have a similar relationship.
• 1:01:26
  Yes. Because you have the Hebrew scriptures that
• 1:01:29
  come in and talk about the sons of God coming
• 1:01:32
  down and then Nephilim are created. But before
• 1:01:36
  that is when you get the line of Cain that are
• 1:01:38
  making all of these things. That's right, yeah.
• 1:01:41
  So it's interesting that you see it that way.
• 1:01:44
  A little bit later, like if we want to say that
• 1:01:46
  Enoch or Book of the Watchers is second temple
• 1:01:50
  literature, then it's at least 200 or 300 BC
• 1:01:53
  before Christ or before Common Era, however your
• 1:01:57
  brain works on that. It doesn't eliminate Christ.
• 1:02:01
  He's still there. I'm a BCAD guy. I was raised
• 1:02:04
  that way. BCAD. But it's that idea that like
• 1:02:09
  when you look at it, it goes, okay, so. If Enoch's
• 1:02:14
  not written before everything, but it's written
• 1:02:16
  even as Second Temple literature, you still get
• 1:02:18
  this movement where it gets a little bit more
• 1:02:20
  specific. Yeah. And with the Watchers, what the
• 1:02:24
  Watchers did was they reveal different kinds
• 1:02:27
  of knowledge. They reveal magic, enchantments,
• 1:02:31
  astrology or celestial knowledge. Yeah. Divination.
• 1:02:36
  And then they get metalworking. So Azazel. becomes
• 1:02:41
  particularly associated with teaching humanity
• 1:02:44
  how to work metals, including the manufacture
• 1:02:47
  of weapons. So what does Prometheus give mankind?
• 1:02:52
  Fire? Fire unlocks metallurgy? Yeah. And then
• 1:02:58
  metallurgy produces tools, civilization, and
• 1:03:01
  weapons. So now you get this Enoch tradition
• 1:03:06
  talking about Azazel who brings in metallurgy.
• 1:03:11
  And weapons. And you're like, is that Prometheus?
• 1:03:16
  Is Azazel Prometheus? Is Prometheus the Greek
• 1:03:19
  name for Azazel? Azazel? I don't know how to
• 1:03:23
  say what she said. That's the Paul pronunciation.
• 1:03:26
  It's got to be. Azazel? If there's a Z, he's
• 1:03:30
  going to pronounce it. What if you did Zed? A
• 1:03:37
  Zedzel? A Zed Zedzel? A Zed Zed? Azazel. So Azazel,
• 1:03:43
  Azazel, Azazel. Isn't there Azalea? Azaleas,
• 1:03:50
  yeah. It's a flower. Stay away from Azaleas.
• 1:03:53
  They're bad. They're watcher technology. Are
• 1:03:57
  Azaleas watcher technology? That's hilarious.
• 1:04:01
  But yeah, so then you have this Prometheus. He
• 1:04:04
  kind of crosses the divine authority and then
• 1:04:06
  the watchers cross that divine boundary. Prometheus
• 1:04:10
  gives mankind transformative knowledge and the
• 1:04:14
  Watchers give mankind forbidden knowledge. Prometheus
• 1:04:17
  brings fire and encourages civilization and Azazel
• 1:04:21
  metalworking and weapons. Prometheus changes
• 1:04:25
  mankind and the Watchers have human civilization,
• 1:04:30
  changes human civilization and violence escalates.
• 1:04:34
  Prometheus is bound. The Watchers are bound.
• 1:04:39
  So that's kind of like this parallel between
• 1:04:42
  the two. Yeah. So interesting. It is. I think
• 1:04:45
  what's to add an extra level to that as well
• 1:04:47
  on the end of it is that in scripture, we see
• 1:04:51
  that at some point, I'll call them Titans, but
• 1:04:55
  the watchers are going to be released for a time.
• 1:04:59
  Right. And in Prometheus bound, he talks about
• 1:05:01
  how, and we see it with Heracles is like, I'm
• 1:05:04
  going to be released at some point. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:05:06
  That's yeah. He has a confidence in that. Oh,
• 1:05:09
  strong confidence. So then the question would
• 1:05:11
  be, does Enoch copy Prometheus? Because if it's
• 1:05:16
  second temporal, it actually would have been
• 1:05:17
  after. So unless you're Timothy Albarino, who
• 1:05:26
  with great respect holds that view of... Enoch,
• 1:05:32
  or at least part of the Book of the Watchers
• 1:05:34
  being written by Seventh from Adam Enoch, then
• 1:05:37
  most scholars would hold to Second Temple literature
• 1:05:41
  in the process of the Book of the Watchers, which
• 1:05:45
  means that it would have technically been after
• 1:05:47
  Prometheus and the story of Prometheus. Also,
• 1:05:51
  in a region that at the point of the Second Temple
• 1:05:56
  would start to see Greek and Roman culture start
• 1:06:00
  to pop up. Right, yeah. So it's kind of a perfect
• 1:06:04
  timing where Prometheus entering the space where
• 1:06:08
  the Greeks are coming in and interacting with
• 1:06:12
  the Hebrew people, you're starting to get Second
• 1:06:16
  Temple literature. Yeah. And it's all kind of
• 1:06:19
  happening at the same time. I mean, I'm not saying
• 1:06:21
  it is. That's what's interesting about that.
• 1:06:25
  And I'm not going to say anything definite because
• 1:06:27
  I don't know. Sure. But to throw another side
• 1:06:29
  of that and using the, the logic of like scripture.
• 1:06:33
  Yeah. As far as like its purpose and what it's
• 1:06:36
  doing is like you have all of these oral traditions.
• 1:06:41
  Right. For centuries. Right. And then someone's
• 1:06:45
  like, all right, let me write this down. And
• 1:06:47
  they're like, whoa, hold on. All right, we're
• 1:06:48
  going to write ours down because yours is wrong.
• 1:06:50
  Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, I think there's the
• 1:06:53
  same argument can be made as like the, we'll
• 1:06:57
  just say the Enochian story. Right. Is the oral
• 1:06:59
  tradition. Yeah. Then some guy comes along and
• 1:07:02
  is like, I'm going to write Prometheus down.
• 1:07:04
  Yeah. And they're like, all right, let's write
• 1:07:06
  down Enoch. Yeah, exactly. And it's like that
• 1:07:08
  very well could be it as well as far as like
• 1:07:11
  these are all orally taught. But until one person
• 1:07:14
  writes one of them down, now everyone's like,
• 1:07:16
  all right, let's write ours down too. That's
• 1:07:17
  fair. But even back then, you're looking at oral
• 1:07:20
  traditions. Right. And you're looking at the
• 1:07:22
  convergence of multiple civilizations all at
• 1:07:24
  the same time. Which is a lot harder to track
• 1:07:26
  because. They're not written down. Yeah. They're
• 1:07:29
  orally spread. Yeah. So scholars discuss Greek
• 1:07:34
  and Mesopotamian and Jewish parallels and possible
• 1:07:37
  cultural interaction, particularly in the Hellenistic
• 1:07:40
  world. But really the question is who copied
• 1:07:42
  who and who copied what down and from where.
• 1:07:46
  Yeah. You know, and it also would be true. And
• 1:07:49
  that's a big assumption to assume that anyone
• 1:07:50
  copied anyone. Exactly. Well, because the thing
• 1:07:53
  is, is like if you're. Okay, like let's say you
• 1:07:56
  go and you sit down at your local pub. Yeah.
• 1:08:00
  And then somebody walks in with a different accent.
• 1:08:03
  You go, hey, where are you from? What are your
• 1:08:06
  stories? Yeah. So the reality is it's less like
• 1:08:09
  someone taking something, and it's more like
• 1:08:12
  someone goes, oh, well, see that fire over there?
• 1:08:16
  We believe that Prometheus stole it from Zeus
• 1:08:18
  and dropped it down. And then the guy in the
• 1:08:21
  pub that's local goes, huh. we have this guy,
• 1:08:25
  Azazel. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:08:30
  He's like, ah, the flower guy? No, no, no. No,
• 1:08:33
  no, not him. He's the weapons guy. And it's funny
• 1:08:37
  because I think that that's more true, that you
• 1:08:39
  have this convergence of sharing stories and
• 1:08:41
  sharing mythologies versus hearing them and stealing
• 1:08:44
  them. And it's a huge assumption to make, even
• 1:08:49
  more so when we look at, which we've done in
• 1:08:51
  the past. is how every ancient culture has the
• 1:08:54
  same stories. Right. But there is a big difference,
• 1:08:58
  though, in the Prometheus story. Yeah. Because
• 1:09:01
  Prometheus ends up the hero. That's true. Yeah,
• 1:09:06
  that's true. So Prometheus is the hero at the
• 1:09:09
  end of the story. And I think part of it's based
• 1:09:11
  on the perspective of the one writing it, too.
• 1:09:14
  Or if you look at it from like the... Did Prometheus
• 1:09:16
  write Prometheus? Did Enoch write Prometheus?
• 1:09:23
  And then have a change of heart? Did Enoch, the
• 1:09:27
  seventh from Adam, write Prometheus? Take that,
• 1:09:30
  Tim. And then the Book of the Watchers is written
• 1:09:33
  only in the second temple period? That would
• 1:09:35
  be wild. That would actually be pretty wild.
• 1:09:40
  I mean, when you look at it, it's like from the
• 1:09:43
  Enochian. I think that's the right one. The Enoch
• 1:09:46
  perspective. It's like, well, yeah, of course
• 1:09:48
  they're the bad guys. Oh, yeah. We look at it
• 1:09:50
  from Prometheus and these other ancient cultures.
• 1:09:53
  It's like, well, of course the one who brought
• 1:09:55
  it is the good guy. Right. Because he brought
• 1:09:57
  what was being withheld from us. That's true.
• 1:10:01
  Yeah. And like, so the knowledge itself doesn't
• 1:10:05
  necessarily make humanity better. Knowledge makes
• 1:10:08
  humanity more capable of being whatever humanity
• 1:10:11
  already is. Yeah. We talk about that all the
• 1:10:13
  time. It's like if your heart is corrupt, which
• 1:10:18
  is what the Bible says of all humanity. Yes.
• 1:10:21
  That your heart is corrupt, then any knowledge
• 1:10:24
  that we shouldn't have is going to corrupt, is
• 1:10:29
  going to get corrupted by a corrupted heart.
• 1:10:32
  Yeah. So that's the truth of it is like unless
• 1:10:35
  the heart is redeemed back to Christ, then the
• 1:10:39
  one who has not been redeemed back to Christ
• 1:10:41
  will take knowledge. They shouldn't have and
• 1:10:44
  use it to further corrupt the world from their
• 1:10:50
  corrupted heart. Yeah. So it's not the weapon.
• 1:10:52
  It's not the knowledge. It's given to the wrong
• 1:10:56
  person. That's right. Who is in and of themselves
• 1:10:59
  already corrupted. Yeah. So unredeemed people
• 1:11:03
  with knowledge they shouldn't have breeds corruption
• 1:11:06
  and chaos. Yeah. And it's also interesting. Going
• 1:11:10
  back to Enoch real quick. Because there's a line
• 1:11:12
  in there that I really like. I'm not going to
• 1:11:15
  remember it perfectly. This is the best I can
• 1:11:16
  remember. Where Yahweh, or the Lord of Spirits,
• 1:11:21
  is talking about or to the Watchers. Yeah. And
• 1:11:24
  he's like, you thought you guys were so great.
• 1:11:27
  You thought you knew all these great mysteries
• 1:11:29
  and knowledge. Right. But there are so much better
• 1:11:32
  ones to know. The ones you know are worthless.
• 1:11:34
  Yes. And when we look at that, it's like. We
• 1:11:37
  look at the technology and stuff that we have
• 1:11:39
  that Enoch would argue came from the watchers.
• 1:11:42
  And it's like, wow, look how great this is. And
• 1:11:44
  Yahweh's over here like, that's worthless. I've
• 1:11:47
  got way more cooler stuff. Yes. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:11:50
  And that makes me actually think of Proverbs
• 1:11:52
  16, 9. The heart of man plans his way, but the
• 1:11:57
  Lord establishes his steps. Yeah. Like all the
• 1:12:00
  way through the Proverbs over and over again,
• 1:12:02
  you have the wisest man who ever lived, Solomon,
• 1:12:04
  who's basically like, Look, we think we know
• 1:12:08
  what we're doing with the knowledge that we've
• 1:12:10
  been given. But every time we use that knowledge
• 1:12:13
  with our own thoughts mixed with our corrupted
• 1:12:16
  hearts, it's just this cycle of chaos. Yeah.
• 1:12:19
  And what we need is a savior to come in and fix
• 1:12:22
  our heart. Yeah. Because everything else doesn't,
• 1:12:26
  like, everything else will result in something
• 1:12:28
  bad. It will devolve. Yes. Ultimately. Yeah.
• 1:12:32
  And we see the Lord even, we see the Lord throughout
• 1:12:34
  actually. take that and allow it to devolve so
• 1:12:38
  that people's hearts can turn back towards him.
• 1:12:40
  Yeah. So there's an allowance or someone has
• 1:12:43
  hardened their heart so he allows their heart
• 1:12:45
  to be hardened even further as an example so
• 1:12:48
  that other people will turn and go, oh, that
• 1:12:50
  knowledge results in something that brings death.
• 1:12:54
  Yeah, that's right. So let's turn to Yahweh who
• 1:12:56
  brings life. Yeah. And that's ultimately what
• 1:13:00
  you see over and over again, which is kind of
• 1:13:02
  interesting. Yeah, that's really cool. Um, modern
• 1:13:07
  day Prometheus, like technologies and knowledge
• 1:13:11
  that we seem to be getting now. Frankenstein.
• 1:13:14
  Yeah. I mean, yeah, I guess that's perpetual,
• 1:13:18
  but it's interesting because I feel like people
• 1:13:21
  do go back to things like Prometheus because
• 1:13:23
  it's like, this is a perpetual thing that it
• 1:13:26
  doesn't seem like there was a moment in time,
• 1:13:28
  a long, long time ago where we got all the knowledge
• 1:13:31
  that we were ever going to get. Yeah, that's
• 1:13:34
  right. However, Like Solomon says, there's nothing
• 1:13:36
  new under the sun. Yeah. So it's not necessarily
• 1:13:39
  new knowledge. It's just old knowledge in a new
• 1:13:45
  time. Yeah. So it's like bringing in ways to
• 1:13:48
  develop and create things. However, it's almost
• 1:13:53
  impossible. And if you're here in this part of
• 1:13:56
  the episode and you have an example of this,
• 1:13:59
  please tell us. it's almost impossible to find
• 1:14:03
  anything that was created out of nowhere, like
• 1:14:06
  breakthrough creations and breakthrough experiments
• 1:14:12
  and things like the phone or the printing press
• 1:14:16
  or any of these huge things that have completely
• 1:14:19
  changed civilization. It is almost impossible
• 1:14:22
  to find one of those where the person who has
• 1:14:26
  the breakthrough first doesn't say, yeah, I just,
• 1:14:31
  I hadn't slept for seven days and then all of
• 1:14:34
  a sudden this being came to me and told me what
• 1:14:36
  to do. Yes. It's like, well, wait a minute. I
• 1:14:39
  mean, that's, or like I had a vision of this
• 1:14:41
  or I had a dream of this or just like all of
• 1:14:44
  a sudden I was like, oh, it like became clear
• 1:14:47
  in a moment and it was like the answer was right
• 1:14:49
  there in the air the whole time. Yeah. It's like,
• 1:14:51
  I mean, if they're not talking about being given
• 1:14:54
  knowledge. Then what that? In the most ancient.
• 1:14:59
  way then yeah yes what is then what is that yeah
• 1:15:02
  i mean even some of these people their usage
• 1:15:06
  of substances yeah or lack of sleep like you
• 1:15:10
  said or something yeah yeah that opens us up
• 1:15:12
  to something else exactly yeah so okay so Prometheus
• 1:15:18
  says mankind needs something belonging to the
• 1:15:21
  gods, so he steals it from heaven. Genesis shows
• 1:15:24
  mankind reaching for what God prohibited. The
• 1:15:27
  Watchers bring heavenly secrets down illicitly,
• 1:15:30
  but Christianity introduces the opposite movement.
• 1:15:34
  Man doesn't steal salvation from heaven. Heaven
• 1:15:37
  comes down to man. Prometheus brings fire. Christ
• 1:15:41
  brings himself. Prometheus rebels against Zeus,
• 1:15:45
  but Christ obeys his father. Prometheus gives
• 1:15:48
  humanity greater power, but Christ addresses
• 1:15:51
  humanity's deeper problem, the sin, the corrupted
• 1:15:54
  heart. Prometheus asks, how can mankind become
• 1:15:57
  more powerful? The gospel says, how can mankind
• 1:16:01
  be reconciled back to God? So not more powerful,
• 1:16:05
  but how can humanity be humbled? and have a clean
• 1:16:09
  heart to be brought back to God. And maybe that's
• 1:16:12
  why the Prometheus story has survived for almost
• 1:16:14
  3 ,000 years, because underneath all the Titans,
• 1:16:16
  eagles, fire, and chains is one of mankind's
• 1:16:21
  oldest temptations. Maybe the thing that will
• 1:16:23
  finally save us is just one more piece of knowledge,
• 1:16:27
  one more discovery, one more technology, one
• 1:16:29
  more secret, one more stolen flame. But Scripture
• 1:16:32
  gives a radically different answer. Our greatest
• 1:16:35
  problem was never that heaven refused to give
• 1:16:38
  us enough fire. Our greatest problem was what
• 1:16:40
  we did with the fire we already had. Or what
• 1:16:45
  we will do with any knowledge that we get with
• 1:16:50
  a corrupted heart. So it's like, what do we do?
• 1:16:55
  How do we corrupt Frankenstein's monster? Like
• 1:17:00
  the angels that come to Lot and... Sodom and
• 1:17:05
  Gomorrah and the men with corrupted heart come
• 1:17:08
  and say, we want to do corruptible things to
• 1:17:11
  these men, right? And there's an opportunity
• 1:17:14
  there for them to go, hey, let's go ask these
• 1:17:17
  guys questions. Like, let's go learn stuff, right?
• 1:17:21
  And because of the corrupt heart, they immediately
• 1:17:24
  go to, let's try and get everything we can out
• 1:17:26
  of these guys. It's that, it's, yeah. So Prometheus,
• 1:17:32
  Is this archetype that is this other side, this
• 1:17:37
  guy where we, yeah, I just keep going back to
• 1:17:40
  Robin Hood because it's that idea. Yeah. Of like,
• 1:17:43
  yeah, he takes from the gods and gives to humanity.
• 1:17:46
  Yes. Takes from the rich and gives to the poor.
• 1:17:50
  But ultimately, he's not doing something in harmony.
• 1:17:54
  He's creating more chaos. Yeah. And it's one
• 1:17:57
  of those where I guess if you look at it from
• 1:18:00
  the. The short perspective is, is Prometheus
• 1:18:05
  a good guy or a bad guy? Yeah. See, the hero
• 1:18:07
  or the villain depends on your view of the gods
• 1:18:10
  or your view of heaven. Let me just put it that
• 1:18:12
  way. Sure. And then the long -term view is, well,
• 1:18:16
  what did his actions create? Exactly. Did they
• 1:18:19
  create a long -term good or a long -term chaos?
• 1:18:21
  Yeah. Yeah, and if God is this figure that has
• 1:18:26
  his thumb on humanity, then Prometheus is a hero.
• 1:18:31
  Yeah. And that's how they saw him in Greek culture.
• 1:18:34
  Right. Because the gods in the Pantheon were
• 1:18:37
  upstairs having parties. Right. And humanity
• 1:18:40
  was suffering down below. Yeah. And so, of course,
• 1:18:43
  Prometheus is a hero. He's a titan. He delivered
• 1:18:47
  them from their struggle. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 1:18:49
  But it only brought them more chaos. That's right.
• 1:18:53
  Yeah. So it depends on from which perspective
• 1:18:56
  you're looking. Yeah. So Prometheus, hero or
• 1:19:02
  heroine? Three, two, one.