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Are We In A Friendship Epidemic? · Two Broke Chicks

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on gadigal Land Always was, always
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: will be Aboriginal Land. Hey Chicks, I'm out and this
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: is two broad Chicks, the show that shares life lessons
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: and tips to help make you rich in life. Welcome
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: back for a Cheeky Tuesday. Tuesday with the Chicks, Seeky
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Tuesday with the Cheeks. Half price There ego where the
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: buy one get one where the event Cinema's deal of podcasts. Today,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: we have a very highly requested episode and it's come
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: from a couple of episodes that we've had going over
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  Speaker 1: the last few weeks, and we're talking about whether or
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  Speaker 1: not we're in a friendship epidemic, whether or not friendships
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  Speaker 1: still hits the same, Is friendships harder than it used
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  Speaker 1: to be? Why does it feel that way? But of
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  Speaker 1: course we will end on how to make and keep
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  Speaker 1: strong friendships at whatever age or stage rhyming. She's a poet,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I'm a rapper. We also put some story polls up
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  Speaker 1: on Instagram with some to get some data from your chicks.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah dah and how you guys feel on the last
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  Speaker 1: frame I had, like any other thoughts, I have never
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  Speaker 1: seen so many responses to an Instagram story of just
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  Speaker 1: being like anything. What is your obsession of the week.
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  Speaker 2: My obsession of the week is Margo Robbie's Wuthering Heights
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  Speaker 2: press looks.
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  Speaker 3: I love her. They are insane.
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  Speaker 1: I feel like I only have inappropriate comments.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly, that's it.
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  Speaker 1: The Jacobal Lordie, Margot Robbie sandwich make me bloonney. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: there's slices of bread there. They need a slice of
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  Speaker 1: cheese and they need a little bit of meat. You
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  Speaker 1: can be the cheese, I can be the ham. And
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  Speaker 1: you know I love a ham sandwich.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I feel like Margo Robbie. And also I'll
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  Speaker 2: say Zendaya too. She's not related to this conversation, but
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  Speaker 2: I still want to give her flowers.
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  Speaker 3: It's due. But they are.
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  Speaker 2: Really doing the most when it comes to their press
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  Speaker 2: looks for the tools that they do for whatever project
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  Speaker 2: that they're working on.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm obsessed.
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  Speaker 1: Margot Robbie is a marketing genius. Should the same thing
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  Speaker 1: for Barbie, Like she knows the power of turning a look. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and how it gets people talking about the movie.
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  Speaker 2: And look, I haven't seen the film yet. We've only
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  Speaker 2: seen trailers and some snake peats and whatnot.
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  Speaker 3: But why do I feel like the press looks are.
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  Speaker 2: Better than the actual costumes in the film.
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  Speaker 3: That black Mini was by Roberto Cavali. Love that the black.
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  Speaker 2: Mini with the bell sleeves and the trucker and then
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  Speaker 2: like the Mermaid.
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  Speaker 3: It was incredible.
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  Speaker 2: And then also there was the Scaparelli gown that had
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  Speaker 2: like a Mermaid kind of tail at the bottom and
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  Speaker 2: it was like black.
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  Speaker 1: Into red gothic whimsy.
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  Speaker 3: It's incredible.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, My obsession of the week is a new hair
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  Speaker 1: product that I've tried and it's more affordable than a
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: previous product in that category that I was trying, and
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  Speaker 1: it's the Garniare curl cream and obsessed. It's a big, fat,
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  Speaker 1: green tub of curl cream, which I'm like, yes, get
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  Speaker 1: that in here, so you get heaps of product with it,
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  Speaker 1: and it literally just gets rid of all the frizze
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  Speaker 1: in my hair and helps me get like the beechy
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  Speaker 1: wave curls when I like can't be able to do
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  Speaker 1: my hair. So if you remember, when we're in Europe,
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  Speaker 1: a lot of people being like, how what product are
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  Speaker 1: you using? And I spoke about one that was from
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  Speaker 1: Sephora but that one I think was around like forty
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  Speaker 1: seven dollars and it's kind of like a tube and
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  Speaker 1: you don't really get heaps of product, and I it
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  Speaker 1: still lasted a really long time, like you only need
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  Speaker 1: a small amount, right.
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  Speaker 3: It was also always sold out.
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  Speaker 1: I get double the amount with this Garnia air product,
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  Speaker 1: and yeah, it's just really good. You can get it
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: from Chemists Warehouse. They have a whole range. If you've
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  Speaker 1: got wavy hair that's like frizzy, I find it really helps.
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  Speaker 1: I just literally flip my head upside down, wet it
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  Speaker 1: and then scrunch it with this and Bobs, your uncle,
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  Speaker 1: we're gonna do Oceans thirteen and we're just stealing Margo
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  Speaker 1: Robbie's wardrobe and we're gonna do it with a Garniac Great.
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  Speaker 3: Amazing.
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  Speaker 1: On that note, let's get into the episode.
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  Speaker 3: Let's do it.
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  Speaker 1: Why has friendships become so hard? Well?
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  Speaker 2: I think that there are a lot of different factors
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  Speaker 2: that can contribute to this, and this has been a
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  Speaker 2: topic of conversation that people have had over the last
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  Speaker 2: few years.
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  Speaker 3: I feel like, especially since.
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  Speaker 2: Lockdown, don't you think When I was doing research for
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  Speaker 2: the episode, I saw that an article was published by
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  Speaker 2: the Harvard Kennedy School, and they were talking about a
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  Speaker 2: so called friendship recession. Oh yeah, And they were saying
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  Speaker 2: that the percentage of US adults who report having no
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  Speaker 2: close friends had quadrupled to twelve percent since nineteen ninety
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  Speaker 2: Yeah wow.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So they attributed this to a bunch of different things.
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  Speaker 2: They said that it could be due to our increased
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  Speaker 2: time in digital spaces lockdown again. Also, a lot of
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  Speaker 2: people are working from home, and because of the gig
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  Speaker 2: economy as well, a lot of us view our free
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  Speaker 2: time as opportunities to monetize or have a side hustle
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  Speaker 2: or so we're not using our free time to socialize
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  Speaker 2: as much as before because we're looking at it as other.
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  Speaker 1: Opportunities need to be doing something like productivity, which is
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  Speaker 1: really interesting. And I do think that anecdotally we've probably
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  Speaker 1: seen this a little bit ourselves. You agree, hmmm, one
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  Speaker 1: hundred percent. As we've gotten older, the more you see
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  Speaker 1: people getting burnt out, whether it's you know, they have children,
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  Speaker 1: whether it's they're working multiple jobs, whether it's just the
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  Speaker 1: state of the world and they've got news burnout and
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  Speaker 1: they're like, oh my god, I want to go crawl
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  Speaker 1: in a hole and not come back out.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I think, especially from my perspective, it's like if you
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  Speaker 1: get time spare time and you're not working, you're like,
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  Speaker 1: I just want to do nothing.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And I think that also feeds into the fact that
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  Speaker 1: when you are trying to pursue friendships, it's such an
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  Speaker 1: act pursued, it's such active time to spend time with
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  Speaker 1: people that it can be like a, Oh, I just
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  Speaker 1: don't know if I'm up for it. And I think
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  Speaker 1: we've had this like pendulum swing of you know, maybe
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  Speaker 1: like hyper independence and such obsession with the perfect routine
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  Speaker 1: that I don't know if we've factored human connection into it,
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  Speaker 1: you know, getting your ten thousand steps a day and
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  Speaker 1: journaling and drinking your water and meal prepping that in
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  Speaker 1: so many of those routines and advice and productivity lists,
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  Speaker 1: we don't ever see like spend time with friends in them,
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  Speaker 1: or like embrace human connection. And you'd remember from our
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  Speaker 1: first episode we did of the Year where we referenced
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  Speaker 1: and a Harvard study that has been going for eighty
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  Speaker 1: five years and is still going, and it measured what
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  Speaker 1: made people the happiest in life. It wasn't how much
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: money they earned. It wasn't how fit they were, It
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: wasn't you know, how many people thought they were really
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  Speaker 1: really cool. It was literally the status of their human
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  Speaker 1: connections and how connected they were to people in their life.
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  Speaker 1: That could be family, that could be friends, that could
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  Speaker 1: be a lever. But it really shines a light on
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  Speaker 1: how it falls to the bottom of the list. It
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  Speaker 1: falls to the b and absolutely, like I know in
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  Speaker 1: my life that's what happens. Like I'm like, I've got
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  Speaker 1: to get all these things done, and then if I
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  Speaker 1: feel like it and I feel up for it, I'll
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  Speaker 1: spend time with friends, whereas we really should be flipping that.
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  Speaker 3: I think a lot of.
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  Speaker 2: Us just expect that our friends will stick around and
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  Speaker 2: be there and that the relationships will maintain themselves, whereas
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  Speaker 2: other priorities such as well.
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  Speaker 1: Or whatever you know, that will happen. There'll be eras
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  Speaker 1: of your life where you really can't just spend all
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  Speaker 1: your time with your friends or you really can't manage it.
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  Speaker 3: Like if you're a new like exactly, that's hard.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I'm not saying that you need to be like, no,
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to drop all of my responsibilities and just
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  Speaker 1: go get pest with my fatents, which maybe you should.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe you should.
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  Speaker 3: Like we were saying, this is a highly requested episode.
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  Speaker 3: We get emails and.
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  Speaker 2: Dms from chicks all the time asking how can I
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  Speaker 2: make friends as an adult?
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  Speaker 3: It's really really hard.
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  Speaker 2: So we asked you, chicks, do you find friendships overwhelming
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  Speaker 2: as an adult? And eighty three percent said that they
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  Speaker 2: do find friendships overwhelming as an adult. So if you
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  Speaker 2: are feeling this, not only are you not alone, but
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  Speaker 2: the vast majority of people feel this way.
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  Speaker 1: Also. I think when you know these things, it also
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  Speaker 1: helps you get past these things. Yeah, which when we
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: were working on this episode, it is really really interesting
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  Speaker 1: because you go, ah, fuck like that. Yep, I see that,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm going to stop doing that.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: One of the things that I found when I was
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  Speaker 2: doing research for this episode is have you heard of
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  Speaker 2: Mel Robin's concept of the great scattering?
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  Speaker 1: Oh now a Frotha Mele Robins theory. G Amma male
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: who doesn't but she's on my manifestation board.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. On the everyone go to Mel Robin's comments and
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: tag two broach chicks.
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  Speaker 1: They're really really cool. Mel, Please walk me to Australia.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: You should go on the podcast.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, we really want to get her on the pod.
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  Speaker 1: Go on.
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  Speaker 2: Mel Robins talks about the great scattering in relation to
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  Speaker 2: white is so hard to make and maintain friendships in adulthood,
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  Speaker 2: and she talks about how when we're children and teenagers,
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  Speaker 2: there's rules around friendship.
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  Speaker 3: Right, So we.
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  Speaker 2: Go to school, we have team sports, we live in
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  Speaker 2: the same neighborhood.
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  Speaker 3: We all move as groups together.
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  Speaker 2: You know, we're doing the same activities, we're celebrating the
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  Speaker 2: same milestones together. We're naturally together by proximity, and that
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  Speaker 2: does encourage friendship. But then as you get into your
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  Speaker 2: twent and beyond, everybody experiences a great scattering. So people
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  Speaker 2: will move to different cities, they'll enter new relationships, they'll
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  Speaker 2: start new jobs, I'll start prioritizing new things, and as
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  Speaker 2: a result, we don't have that proximity that typically keeps
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  Speaker 2: us together. And we've spoken about this on the show,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: but I thought the interesting part of this great scattering
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  Speaker 2: theory that she has is that she talks about three
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  Speaker 2: pillars of friendship, and she talks about how when this
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  Speaker 2: great scattering happens and when we enter adulthood, you can
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  Speaker 2: no longer expect friendship. Oh yeah, So she says that
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  Speaker 2: friendship is something that you have to put effort into. Ah,
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  Speaker 2: I get you, and that it isn't necessarily going to
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  Speaker 2: fall in your lap.
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  Speaker 1: And I do think did that happen for people in
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  Speaker 1: high Schoolhi?
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  Speaker 3: That is something that we should also address.
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  Speaker 2: Everybody has their own experiences with friendship, but you know, generally.
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  Speaker 1: Speaking, I'm like, I'm in the opposite of that.
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  Speaker 2: When she's talking about the three pillars of friendship, she
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  Speaker 2: addresses number one proximity, number two time, and also timing.
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  Speaker 2: So the majority of us spend most of our time
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  Speaker 2: with our work colleagues, right, But unless you work with
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  Speaker 2: a bunch of people who are in the same stage
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  Speaker 2: of life as you, they may not end up your
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  Speaker 2: best friend. In our experience, I think we did have that.
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  Speaker 2: We made a lot of amazing friendships through our old work.
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  Speaker 3: But that's because a lot of the people who we.
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  Speaker 2: Worked with were in their early and mid twenties at
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  Speaker 2: the time and we were all sort of on the
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  Speaker 2: same trajectory together.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I feel like as well, if you look at it, though,
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  Speaker 1: like obviously we're still we threends and we met at work.
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  Speaker 1: We no longer work at that workplace, right, And I
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  Speaker 1: would say that there is a very small number of
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  Speaker 1: people that I still talk to because that proximity and
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  Speaker 1: timing isn't there anymore. The convenience of it isn't there anymore.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. And then the third pillar she talks about is energy.
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  Speaker 2: So that's both in terms of the energy that you
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  Speaker 2: put into the relationship but also the energy that you
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  Speaker 2: have as a person. So if your value is aligned,
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  Speaker 2: if your interests align, if your hobby is align, if
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  Speaker 2: they don't, then that doesn't really foster a natural thing
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  Speaker 2: for friendship.
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  Speaker 3: Yeap, So I thought that was interesting.
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  Speaker 1: That is interesting. I feel like it ties in really
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  Speaker 1: well to an article or really a tweet that I
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: came across crazy Right. Basically, it's the fact of like
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  Speaker 1: do we need to lower our friendship standards? Like are
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: we actually expecting like too much from our friendships? And
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: this thought came from a viral tweet that reads, being
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  Speaker 1: annoyed is the price you pay for community. It means
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: having guests when you'd rather be alone. It means letting
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: someone live with you even when they get on your nerves.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: It means showing up for events that you'd rather not
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: go to it means turning the other cheek and this
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: really fueled a lot of online discussion. And when I
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: was reading it at first, I was like ah, and
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: then the more I thought about it.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh fuck.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: I was like, I really think this hits the nail
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: on the head and it ties into what we were
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: talking about earlier of you know, being tired and feeling
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: like near about going to things. But also I do
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: think the reoccurrence and popularity of therapy speak and red
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  Speaker 1: flags and toxic behavior has actually increased our standards to
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  Speaker 1: a level that I don't think is accurate and to
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: how we look at friendships. And I think we've moved
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: into an era where we expect perfection rather than presence
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  Speaker 1: from our friendships. And because no friendship is going to
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  Speaker 1: be perfect, you're going to piss each other off sometimes,
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  Speaker 1: Like if you expect to be lifelong friends with someone,
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  Speaker 1: guess what they're going to annoy you. It's going to
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  Speaker 1: be And I'm not saying this in a way that's like, yes,
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  Speaker 1: we should always bitch about our friends, or that any
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: actual toxic behavior like someone breaching your trust or making
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: you uncomfortable or actually having harmful behavior towards you should
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: be tolerated. That is not what I'm referencing here. That
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: is actual toxic behavior, right, Yeah, But what I'm talking
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: about is, you know, annoyance is the price you pay
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  Speaker 1: for community. Is the friend that's always five minutes late,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: or maybe they forget to reply straight away, or maybe
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: they're a little bit flaky, but when they're there, they're there. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you know, Like it's it's the little things that I
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: think we've started to being like, oh, this is just
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  Speaker 1: the worst, Like maybe they interrupt you when you speak
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: because they got excited. It's these tiny things that we've
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: started thinking that everything needs to be perfect.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well we focus on the flows rather than their
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: great values and attributes as a friend.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I do think people will feel differently about
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: this because everyone has different experiences with friendship. If you've
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: been the friend that always and consistently puts in more
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: effort than others, you probably wouldn't align to this as
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: much as someone who hasn't had that experience, Like everyone
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: has had different experiences in friendships, that this would probably
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: hit harder for some and not as much for others.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: But there was a journalist who discussed the topic in
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: an article for Time Magazine. I really think they put
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: it together perfectly and summarized it perfectly, and they said, ultimately,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: this debate about what we owe the members of our
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: communities and the price we should pay to be a
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: part of a community should be focused on how important
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: these relationships actually are to us. We shouldn't consider preparing
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: meals for a sick friend or walking someone's dog as
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: an annoyance, because these annoyances, what we might consider the tough,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: boring or mundane moments, become the foundation of our connections
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: to each other and ultimately what it means to be
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: part of a community. So, yeah, you don't have to
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: tolerate annoyances from every single person you meet. Yeah, but
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: it means if that person means a lot to you,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: if you really love that person, then you tolerate it.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Annoyances is part of it.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of community.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Another thing that can be really hard about friendship is
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  Speaker 2: feeling left out. Yes, especially if you are a part
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: of a group or a trio or whatever it made.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: And we went to Disneyland and we had our friend Helena,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: and there would be like the pear Rides and we'd
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: be like fuck, are we like rotated? Yeah, the pair
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: luckily you would sit next to each other.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: We were all happy to be like, we'll just do like, yeah,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: we'll take it in turn.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well who has to sit by themselves?
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, trios are hard.
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  Speaker 3: They are hard.
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  Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of shame to bring it
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: up or express that you are feeling left out when
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: you're an adult, because it feels like maybe an immature
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: thing to bring our or it's embarrassing. We put this
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: up as a poll on the story as well, because
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: I wanted to see what the consensus was and if
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: we were all aligned on this, and I was pleasantly surprised.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Eighty three percent of chicks feel that it's normal to
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: be left out in friendships always or to an extent,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: And I thought that was a really refreshing take. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: because I personally think there is a difference between being
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: left out and excluded. I think those two things are
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: different things. Yeah, being left out is a feeling.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Being excluded is like a conscious decision from other people
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: in my mind, like.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: There's malice behind one.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, being excluded is like a purposeful decision, whereas being
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: left out is kind of a feeling.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: And this has been a topic of conversation on the
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Internet recently because of the article that was published in
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: The Cut in January by Ashley Tisdale Yes under the
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: headline breaking up with my Toxic Mum group and the
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: group included some fellow celebrity mums like Hillary Duff, Meghan
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Trainer and Mandy Moore. And in this article slash personal essay,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: tis I was talking about how she originally joined the
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: group shortly following the birth of her first baby, which
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: I know is a very isolating period for a lot
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: of people, which is why they do join groups like
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: mum groups because again, like you're on a similar timeline
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: and you can share a lot of those experiences that
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: otherwise would be quite isolating if you don't have people
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: to talk about it with. Originally, she found it really comforting.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: She was really relieved to have the community. But then
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: after not long she felt like she was being excluded,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: that there were other group chats happening without her, that
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: she wasn't being invited to things. She'd go on Instagram
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: and see that they were all hanging out or at
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: dinner parties and such. She would be positioned at like
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: the shit end of the table away from everyone, and
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: this kind of divided the internet into, I think, in
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: how different people perceived this.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Article, What did you think?
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: The thing that I had heard was that there were
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: rumors about potentially Ashley Tisdale's political leanings and maybe some
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: of her values that didn't align with.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: The rest of the group. So that again, these are
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: all alleged, these all roomors.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: So I'm not exactly the truth of what happened unless
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: you're there, you know, And then even when you are there,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: there's three sides to every story of their truth, your truth,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: and the thing that actually happened exactly.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So rather than picking aside, it just made me
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: think that feeling left out is really hard and it's
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: an awful feeling. But again that you need to acknowledge
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: that you can't be invited to everything. Yeah, and you
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: can't be included in everything, and there's going to be
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: some scenarios, even if it's, for example, there's a group
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: trip happening or night out happening and you're like, oh,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I can't make it.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: You can't expect everybody to be like.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: All right, well, we'll shift the schedule so.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: That you can come, or if it's you know, somebody's
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: going to a show or a gig or something and
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: it's for a band that a bunch of your friends like,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: and you're not really interested, Like you might not be
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: invited or included in that, and that's okay, and that
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: there are some situations where you're not going to be
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: invited or involved, and that that doesn't mean that they
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: don't value you as a friend and that you're not
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: part of the group. But I do think that it
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: is a fine line and that you shouldn't put up
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: with it if you feel like your friends are having
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: a separate group chat and maybe bitching about you in it,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: or if they've made the group chat because they're like, oh,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: we don't want Sally to come, so like we're going
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: to make this separate group chat.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: You know, we have quite a large friendship group, Like
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of people and there's a lot of
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: pockets within it. And I have come from like a
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: background where I would say I had a very anxious
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: relationship with friendship, Like when you talk about attachment styles,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: I would have like an anxious attachment style because I
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: was really scared of people not wanting to be my friend.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: So if people hung out without me, I was like,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: oh my god, they hate me. I've done something wrong.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Blah blah blah blah. Now we've definitely moved towards a
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: more secure attachment style within friendships, Thank you, Sally. But
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: I think it gives a good perspective to be able
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: to look at it now, to come from an anxious
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: attachment style with friendships and a secure one to be
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: like it is, I would say most of the time
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: in your head, like people are allowed to hang out
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: one on one, I get it. I get it. If
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: it's like a trio thing, or like if there's four
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: of you and three of them hang out and you're
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: the one that's not there, and it's constant, and it's constant,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: that I get that is valid and that I do
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: see why people would raise it and be like, hey,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: like I kind of felt left, that is to me
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: excluding someone because it's one person. It's like one thing.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: If you've got a group of like six girls, right,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: six chicks or six boys or whatever it is, and
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: two people hang out and four people don't go, that's
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: not a pointed thing, right, Yeah. Yeah. I always take
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: the note of you know, whenever we're doing something. There's
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: no harm in extending invites, Like there's a difference between
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: quality time and then just being like, you know what,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I'll just chuck them the invite and just if they
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: want to come. It's why an invitation means a lot,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: because whether or not you're busy or you can't go right.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Kind of like what you were saying, plans don't have
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: to change, but the fact that you were thought of
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: still makes you feel as though you were a part
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: of a community. Yeah, it makes it not sting. If
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: you see an Instagram story that's uploaded, it makes it
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: fine that people are hanging out, but you already had
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: plans because they still thought of you, they still wanted
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: you there. And that's kind of the perspective that you know,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: I take with things like that. If you know four,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: if three out of five girls are doing something, I'll
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: truck the other two a message and be like this
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: is happening, Yeah, just letting you know, no pressure, welcome
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: to come. Yeah, And I'd like navigating friendships that way.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Everyone will be different, but I prefer to do it
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: that way because I never want anyone to feel excluded
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: or left out. And if you do want to just
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: hang out with someone one on one, just don't post it. Yeah,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: you don't have to post an Instagram story, that's true. Yeah,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: you know, like if you don't want to deal with
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: people being like I wish I was invited and blah
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: blah blah, which like, maybe have the think of being like,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: why didn't you want them invited? Like why is that?
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Is there something within the friendship that's missing or falling
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: apart or maybe that you don't like.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: The last thing I wanted to touch on on why
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: it's so hard to maintain or make friendships in twenty
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: twenty six is a concept of fr inflation. Is it
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: too expensive to have friends in twenty twenty six? Yes,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: that is the right question, So if you've never heard
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: of it, tranflation refers to the rising cost of socializing
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: and how hard it can be to afford friendships in
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: the cost of living crisis. I was reading an article
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: from the Fashion Journal that was talking about this, which
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: has shown that while the cost of living has skyrocketed,
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: the frequency with which we catch up with our friends
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: has declined. And while they said that these two statistics
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: don't necessarily causation, doesn't equal correlation, but I don't think
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: it's too much of a leap to assume that it
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: has had an impact on how often we hang.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: Out with our friends.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: And I also wonder that in the age of social media,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: has hanging out become another form of consumption because we
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: see birthday parties that are worthy of Pinterest boards, where
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: it's like big themes and you have a long table
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: full of candles and matching dinnerware and everybody.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: Wears an aesthetic outfit.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Or Hen's trips that become this huge event that costs
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: heaps of money, or even something like hosting a dinner
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: party or going on a picnic.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Just going to a friend's birthday dinner it's expensive, yeah, which,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: like there's that whole debate of being like if you
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: have a birthday dinner.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Who pays exactly?
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Ye pay because it's your birthday and people are coming
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: to celebrate you, or do people pay for you?
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: M Yeah, and the like going out for dinner is
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: an expensive exercise. Then you have like group presence and
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: the list goes on. And then there's also different income
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: brackets and values for money within friendships, so you know,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: you could have a friend that is really happy to
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: spend a lot of money on a big girls trip
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: interstate or overseas holiday, and then you have another friend
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: that's like that doesn't really sit within my budget, or
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: I have different financial values at the moment, or you
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: could be at different stages or income levels as well,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: where yeah, buying expensive tickets to a concert doesn't necessarily
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: align with you and you can't afford that. So I
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: think that can also sometimes pose some contention in a friendship.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I feel like that's a part of you know,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: potentially those annoyances or disagreements that doesn't get considered. Like,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: let's run with that example, right, it being like you
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: want your friend to come to the Harry Styles concert
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: with you and they say no, And it's like, well,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I asked her to hang out, she doesn't want to
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: hang out. I asked it to come to Harry Start
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: and it's like, well, that ticket is four hundred dollars
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: and she actually hasn't listened to them since they put
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: out dragged me Down. You want direction, which.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: What a fucking hit.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: But it's like that's not really the case here, Like
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: there's certain variables, but it's not about spending time with you.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: It's about the fact that they don't want to pay
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: that money. It's not about whether or not someone can
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: afford something, it's about whether or not they want to
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: afford it exactly.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Even if you think that your friend can afford it,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: if it doesn't align with their money values, that doesn't
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: mean they have to do it. And I think that
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: is such an important part of friendship and the conversations
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: that you have in friendship is both being more flexible
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: and unders standing towards that, but also if your friend
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: is being like, let's go to this amazing restaurant blah blah,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: and it's very expensive, or they want to go on
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: a trip.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Or like a festival for their birthday, Yeah, boat party things,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: and they're like, the boat's actually three thousand dollars, so
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: but divided by four, thank you, and it's a white
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: parties and everyone has Oh no, it's some random thing
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: of seventies disco sparkle aesthetic as I saw it on Pinterest.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: We'd be all right with that, though, Yeah, I'd be
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: like done, I'm there. Yeah, but that's fine because like,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: but you can't get upset when other people don't want
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: to do that.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: And I do also think that if you are in
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: a friendship where somebody is always suggesting things that you
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: feel like are either out of your budget or you
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: just don't want to spend that much money on, you
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: also can suggest alternatives. Yeah, so if you're like, actually,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: do you want to just come over for dinner and
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: we can have a little pot luck and we both
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: can make something, or let's make coffees at home and
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: watch an episode of something, or we can just chat
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: at home or go for a walk. Like, there's so
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: many free or low cost things that you can do.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Is the answer to that question, yes, Like is it
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: too expensive to have friends?
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: I know, I don't think right answer it is in
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: the way that we just discussed it. But like we said,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: there are so many low cost or no cost activities
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: that you can do with friends, and moving it away
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: from activities for the gram and making it for activities
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: that are going to enrich your friendship.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: What happened to just sitting at home being ugly and
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: watching in two thousands roum come.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Work for us, works for us, and look at us.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: But moving into more positive waters of how to actually
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: make but also keep friends. Part of the equation that
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: gets spoken about a lot more is the how to
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: make friends part right, but we don't go into keeping
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: them as much, which is really important to also get into.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: So we put a pole up and we said what
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: period of your life was the hardest to make friends?
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Teens was seventeen percent, twenty to thirty was fifty five percent,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: thirty to forty was twenty five percent, and forty plus
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: was three percent, which I think really closely correlates to
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of what we discussed earlier with The Great
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Scattering ye wa a title by the way, I know,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: but it also ties into a concept that I found
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: while we were doing our research called the friendship market.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: So this was an article in the New York Times.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I believe I'll link in the show notes. I can't
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: remember anything. And basically it's that most of us can
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: pinpoint a time period when making friends was easier, and
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: it's because of the friendship market. Essentially, the friendship market
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: is basically a place where a majority of people in
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: a particular setting a interested in buying or selling friendship.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: AKA when you're in primary school, moving to high school,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: when you're going to a mother's group, when you're going
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: to your first unit at university, when you're starting a
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: new job, like these are places where the friendship market
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: is open and bustling, which is popular. There's people coming
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: in and out of the friendship market all the time.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: As we get older, we spend more time in weaker
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: friendship markets, more close friendship markets. And it reminded me
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: of a theory that we wrote about in our book
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Finding Your People, and it's the cab light theory. This
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: draws on sex and the city when Miranda talks about
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: men and how it goes into dating, and that when
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: a man decides they want to be in a relationship,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: they just turn their cab light on and the first
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: person to get in the cab is the person that
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: they date, mary have babies with, and that it's all
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: about timing right. And while I don't necessarily subscribe to
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: that entire nocean, I do think it introduced and relates
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: to all relationships that people have to be open to
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: friendship like they have to have their cab light on,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: and in you know, strong friendship markets. It's because majority
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: of people have their cab light on, they're open and
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: interested in making friends and they're welcoming it, whereas other
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: people they might have their cab light off. Maybe they,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: you know, are having a hard time, they're stressed, they
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: feel like their cup is full. They don't really they're
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: not looking for more friendships, and that's okay. You don't
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: have to be open to having new friendships at all
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: times in life. It doesn't make you a bad person.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: I think it's a more comforting thing to know that
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: just because someone doesn't want to be your friend doesn't
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: mean there's anything wrong with you. It just means that
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: person's cab light is off, and you can redirect your
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: energy to someone who has their cab light on.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's why I like that theory, because a
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: lot of the time we can feel like it's us
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: and we can be like, I've just people don't want
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: to be friends with me. I'm not like, maybe my
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: breath stinks, whatever it is, And it's not that. There
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: is a notion that you know, if you do constantly
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: feel like you're falling out of friendships, going through friendships, breakups,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: and that's a reoccurring thing within your life, there may
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: be some work to do there. Maybe it's wondering and
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: getting feedback as to why that happens and doing something inner.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Work yeah, like, could it be something that, yeah, you
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: need to work on within yourself or is it even
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: the sort of people that you're looking for friendship exactly?
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Is there like a misalignment there?
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: But I really liked this because I think it really
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: does help to identify where to put your energy. If
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: you are constantly messaging a friend to hang out and
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: they're like, also, I'm busy, and then they never have
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: an like another time to do so their cab light's
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: probably like a medium on. Like you've got to find
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: the people that have their cab light on. And once
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: you do that, then it's about being proactive in those friendships.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: It's about ensuring you keep those chips. And I found
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: an article that was how to keep lifelong friends according
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to a psychologist hit me and I was reading this
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, we are the best because
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: I was like, are we going to get an able?
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: We get like an a fucking plus in this if
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Say so, my soreal, Oh my god, I'm so excited.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, So number one, they reply like a human
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: not a robot. You know that friend who sends a
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: voice note when they when a text could do or
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: adds a line of context, saw this and thought of
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: you instead of just dumping a link. That's the vibe.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: It's not performative, it's not formal. It's just yapping yep.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Number two. They keep a friendship file in their head
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: or notes app I know I felt so seen.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Wow, I didn't know anybody else did this.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: Literally so quick question what's your best friends? Go to coffee?
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Order their current career goal the name. People who keep
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: lifelong friends remember small details and they actually use them.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: So it's about like knowing what your friend is doing
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: on the week and being like, what are you doing?
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: You don't have to It's doesn't have to be about
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: hanging out yeah, but it's like about knowing things.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: We are, having interest in their life, yeah.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: And remembering it. That was such a key part in it.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: There's a viral video where a girl was talking. It
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: was in the context of romantic relationships, but she was
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: discussing how to be loved is to be remembered and
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: how she had a boyfriend who I think was the
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: next partner at the time of this video, going out
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: and she was saying how like he loved her, but
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: he didn't remember things about her, And then she went
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: back into contact with someone she'd previously dated, and maybe
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: they went on a couple of dates and he picked
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: her up a coffee and he brought her her coffee
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: order and she was like and he goes, oh, yeah,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: I remembered you like this, or maybe it wasn't coffee,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: it was something like that, and he was like, I
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: remembered you like it with oat milk or something like that.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: And it was like, that is.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: That is too true.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: It's like to be loved is to be remembered, to
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: remember the little things, or like even the other day
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: when you sent me that phone case because you're like,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: you will fucking froth this. Like that is to be loved.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: That is to have friendships, to know and see something
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: being like you love this, Oh my.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: God, like I saw this and thought of you.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, like this reminds me of you. Love language
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: ten out of ten. Okay, number three. They invest in
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: unsexy maintenance. So whether it's the fifteen minute call when
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: you're really really tired, or whether their birthday falls on
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: a Monday and you're like, I don't want to go
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: to dinner even when it's not the convenient time, or
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: the sexy time for you to hang out with a friend,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: you show up for the uncensed, un sexy maintenance. They
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: say the awkward thing before it festers, So before if
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: something is annoying you, they address it, They get through it.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: They say, hey, when you said this, it did kind
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: of hurt my feelings. Yeah, or you know, I didn't
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: actually mean it this way. I'm really sorry for that happening. Yeah,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: whatever it is. They don't let an awkward thing fester
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: and build up and essentially lead to a friendship breakdown.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, having the uncomfy convos for the sake of the friendship.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: They accept seasons and are just not quit. So, for example,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: you know, if your friend has a baby, they're probably
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: not going to be as available, not even probably they're
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: not going to be as available to you.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: Just informing as they were.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Or if you were both single geels and you would
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: hit the tune together, and then they get into a relationship,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: they're not going to have as much time to spend
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: with you because they're splitting their time between two people. Now.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: They celebrate generously and specifically, so celebrating monumental moments that
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: aren't necessarily big to you, but is big to them.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Or just not even big to society, like your friend
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: getting a promotion exactly. They maintain a high responsibility to
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: blame ratio.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so like.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Your friends will mess up, you will mess up, and
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: being able to be like, fuck, sorry, I know I
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: was fifteen minutes late. That's my bad. Or I'm really
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: sorry I didn't call you for your birthday. I had
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: a really crazy day yesterday, but that's no excuse. Can
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: I make it up to you whatever. That looks like
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: it's accepting responsibility within your relationships. And then number eight,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: they create small shared rituals. Well, that is a wrap
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: for today's episode. Chicks. Thank you for having us in
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: your ear holes. We love to be here.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: We do.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: See you next time, Chiky Bye,