Latest / WoT Spoilers / The Tower Stands & To Be Forged Again- The Gathering Storm chapter 45 & 46 - EP540

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The Tower Stands & To Be Forged Again- The Gathering Storm chapter 45 & 46 - EP540 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Anyway, do you want to get into these books, these chapters?
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: You know, I think we probably should. Yeah, because there's
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of names, the names, a lot of eyebrows,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: there's just a lot.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: I did get stuck in a research hole that left
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: me barely ready by the time we began this episode.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I was really trying to figure out a few details
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: that took me back the Knife of Dreams. Actually, so
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: I have the Knife because there's a Knife of Dreams
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: chapter where they discover that Delana is black Aja that
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: actually has a lot of relevance to what's going on
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: in these chapters and where these characters are. So, yeah,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: there's a lot. It ends up not being super important,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: but there's a lot.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So it's a doubleheader. It's probably going to
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: be a pretty long one.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Got Yeah, a lot of highlights, a lot of highlights.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: So we should probably get into it. Chapter forty five.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: The tower stands and our symbol is the flame of
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: tarvalin Igwain walked slowly through the rebel camp, wearing a
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: crimson gown, its skirts divided for riding, the color raised
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: to not a few eyebrows considering what the Red Adja
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: had done, these Eyes to Die weren't likely to wear
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: the hue. Even the camps serving women had noticed selling
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: their red and maroon dresses or cutting them up for rags.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Agwain had asked for Crimson specifically. In the Tower, sisters
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: had formed the habit of wearing only their own aja's color,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: and the practice had helped fuel the division. While it
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: was good to be proud of your AJA affiliation, it
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: was danger to begin assuming that you couldn't trust anyone
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: wearing other colors. Agwain was all ajas today. The red
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: symbolized many things to her. The impending reunification with the
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Red Aja, a reminder of the division that needed to
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: be righted, a sign of the blood that would be spilled,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: the blood of good men who fought to defend the
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: White Tower, the blood of the dead. Eyes to Die
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: beheaded not an hour ago, by Agwain's order.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Hardcore skirts divided for writing they're not pants, but they're
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: not not not not pants?
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Make that make sense?
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is her being bad ass. I mean
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: she's walking in after having just like the blood of
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: you know, fifty, I said, eye on her hands she's
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: just like, yeah, what's the worst the Emily can do? Well,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: she murdered fifty eye, said Eye the day she came
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: back on Power to Power, So you.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Know, maybe don't piss her, don't pisser off, because yeah,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: you went into the tower basically completely destroyed the other ambulance, right,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: and then came back and before lunch had killed fifty sisters.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Like that is terrifying, absolutely terrifying. Like even if you
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: know you're not a dark friend, you're like, well, maybe
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I am, Like I don't know if she says I am,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: and maybe I am.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Like it's like Romayne is completely coward right, Like the
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: two of them are just absolutely okay, whatever we can do, Amrelyn,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: like we are, we are your servants, right, there's no
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: more competing really, the only competition is for her favor
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: as far as I can tell.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, who can be the most perfect kiss ass? Because
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: they're both vying for the keeper yep, right, that's what
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: they're They're both they become a little more obstinate once
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: she has a keeper in that position, it's not available.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: But yeah, for now, they are out competing each other
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: for being good at their job, which is supporting her,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: and yeah, it's played off like it's just their ambition,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: But how much of it is also just a wee
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: bit of boot shaking terror?
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I had them all in a confusion where
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: I was like, Swan, I found a great Serpent ring?
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: When did Swan lose a great Serpent ring?
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: And then I was like, oh, she found literally had
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: the same brain.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Fat She found a Guain's ring. Which wouldn't she have
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: had that on her when she was taken?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, somehow Swan, I.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Don't found it in the mud.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of that, that doesn't make sense.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: And somehow Palpatine returned.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Because the ring was taken by the tower Isidie. So
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: it's like probably in the Mistress of Novice's study. You know,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I don't think Swan sighed Deetrod over there to get
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: one particular gold ring. I think she might have just
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: handed Agwain one from the stack because Isaida I have
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: a stash of unassigned gold rings as a rule.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: That's it felt very good to have it on her finger. Again,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: does not sound like it's a different.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: I know, But when when did Swan detour just to
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: get her specific ring?
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I correct me if I'm wrong, But I think there
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: was a line where she like goes to where she
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: was captured and finds the ring in the mud. Am
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: I wrong about that?
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I think you're making that up.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I think, okay, fair.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Enough, pretty sure that doesn't happen. It would be very cinematic.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I don't. I got nothing. I got nothing.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: It's it's yeah, I'm not sure because they didn't give
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: it back to her because she's still a novice, right
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: in terms of so like, I don't. I don't know
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: how Swan had found her great serpentary. Maybe she used
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Vora Saw and Grill to teleport in just for the ring.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I because she did go on a mission to get
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: the oath Rod.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Someone did go into the tower to get the oath Throad.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I don't think it was a Gwinn. I bet it
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: was Swan because she would have had Vora Song. I
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: don't know. I'm actually not sure who went to get that.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: But in theory that mission could have gotten her ring,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: even they wouldn't have been in the same place.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Why there wasn't a scene where somebody gave her the
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: ring back to her and she had like tucked away.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: But she wasn't wearing it yet or something like that when.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: She was don't for call, I'm confused.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: This feels very feels like a tangent.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, not the important part.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Of this chapter, no, no.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So we're getting a timestamp that literally so much
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: has happened in the last twenty four hours, right, the
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Shawn shann attack, Agwayne's return, and now we're headed off
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: to do war like literally in twenty four hours. This
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: is the next day.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, so did you notice that one
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: of that Shiriam's death fulfills one of men's men's prophecies, Yeah,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: men's visions.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Shiiam bathed in golden light, and you're like
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: that sounds nice, And then you come to this part
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, that wasn't nice at all. That
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: was the moment of her death.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: It was gold and silver light because it's a silvery
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: axe and a golden sun.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's like, what a beautiful prophecy for such
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: a horrifying moment, you know, like, it's this beautiful vision
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: she has doesn't provoke any feelings of dread whatsoever. And
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: then you get to it you're like, ah.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Ah, yeah, not always what you think they're going to be,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: those prophecies mm.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: And Agwayne has a hard line in the sand that
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: she is not going to have her Eyes to Die
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: do any actual attacking unless the Tower Eyes to Die
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: join in first. She is going to make a gateway
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: for the assault.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Herself, which is yeah, which she isn't sworn on the.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Right up against that line. One, it's right up against
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: her own line. But still she's like, if Elia starts it,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: we will go in swinging, but we will not throw
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: the first fireball.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: And here's what we get the line. Only three members
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: of the Black Aja had been discovered beyond the ones
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Varren had located. So like Varren got like fifty and
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: like missed three. So that's pretty good percentage.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Less than ten percent percent of them being missed is like, yeah,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: that feels pretty freaking good.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's that's that's pretty amazing percentage wise.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: So the Black Couch is incredibly secretive. That's wild that
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: she was able to expose fifty and only three got
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: away or three were missed.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Because like with their hearts and everything, it's not like
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: she can go and be like, so who's on the
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: black oh ja, right, who like she would have to
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: like follow the tracks for years, like knowing who the
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: two black od Jaw that she knows are, figure out
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: who they meet with, right, and then figure out who
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: they meet with, And like, I bet she had to
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: follow that chain all the way down for years and
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: years and years.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would have taken decades, Like I'm sure she
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: did not consider her tally completely done, like she told Agwayne,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I probably missed a few, like I'm sure it was
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: an ongoing project that she just you know, time ran out.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: And I also the line where she talks about she
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: understands how the IEO could laugh at a beating because
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: she'd rather get beaten than have to order the execution
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: of women she had liked and worked with, which is like, yeah,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I'm a wuss, But ordering the execution of people because
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: their dark friends does sound significantly worse than like a
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: beating you can heal from, because like that means they're
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: permanently dark friends and they're permanently dead. Yeah you can't.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Like not that the beating changed anything, but just like
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: she keeps escalating how she understands the ideals embraceive pain,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: it keeps deepening for her over time.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, And just like the grief of someone
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: dying combined with the guilt of ordering their death, but
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: like having the duty to do it and knowing it's
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: the right thing to do, I can't imagine, right, Like, but.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: The betrayal of like they they were not working for
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: you this whole time, they were working against you, Like
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: it's too many emotions mm hmm.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: And just the numbers too, is kind of incredible, right
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: like that. That's the other thing that's just stunning is
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: how normalized it is for traders in this tower to
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: be in power.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: It's the draw of the dark is very alluring.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Apparently they talk about the warders here. You know, perhaps
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: the innocent could be convinced and remain alive long enough
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: to throw themselves in the last battle. I think this
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: is the last time they're ever mentioned, Like there's no
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: boh and then that the group of warders of the
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Black Odjah through themselves to death to protect the sisters
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: for one more second, you know, something like that would have.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Been like, we don't even know if they take the offer,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: much less what they do with it, right right, that's
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that's just leaving a bunch of
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: open space for fanfic, right, but.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: A lot of head cannon going on here, a lot
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: of head cannon going on.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would have been nice to have this thread
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: get followed up on because it is really bleak. The
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: fact that some of these men are not dark friends
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: but are health still having to suffer the the death
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: drama and like to know what happens to them would
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: have been nice, would have added even more weight to
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the water bond. I think we.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Really do lack a lot of any Sean sorry, sea
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: folk interactions in these last couple of books. The sea folk,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, they get the bowl the wins, and they
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: kind of worked to help Rand to control the weather
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: during the last battle. But Sanderson doesn't write a lot
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: of sea folk perspective.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: He's not a big one for closure of no number
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: of things that Jordan left open. He closes a few things,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: but there's a lot of things that I think Jordan
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: would have given us more closure on.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but we also would have had five more.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Books and no one would have been mad.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: About it, So oh, are you kidding me? Yes, they
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: would have been absolutely they would have been.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: No one whose opinion I care about, Well, I.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Think even back in the day, I would have been
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: mad about that. I would be like, come on, finish
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: the series already now obviously not right, but now I'll
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: give me more and more and more.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, I am speaking with the smugness of hindsight.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, absolutely, Like I said, I still remember when
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: he started bringing Forsaken back, and I was like, really,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: you're never going to finish these books if we can't
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: kill off any of the Forsaken, because you can't finish
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: the books till you kill kill off all the Forsaken. Yeah.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I was in my young, naive and voracious reader part
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: of my escapist adolescence, so I was just like, more books, more, more,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: more more. I did not have many thoughts beyond more.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: M I'm older and wiser now and I understand the
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: concept of ending a thing once it's done.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: But oh so.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, next we've got Romaine and Agwayne deciding to do
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: the Gateway. More stuff about Romaine. Then the next thing
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I've got is the Black Towers. Is this the part
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: that connects back to Knife of Dreams?
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the stuff that can expect the Knife
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: of Dreams.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, Because I did not do my homework, I just
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: highlighted the words that seemed interesting. So please tell us
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: what's going on here?
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, So, as best I can tell, there's a group
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: of women who were sent to the delegation to bond
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: these guys as warders. Right, this is all decided. This
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: is Knife of Dreams, chapter twenty three. This is the
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: one where Romanda remembers that Delana Halima are dark friends. Right,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: she figures that out right, So it's that sort of
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: that chapter. And there's a lot of politics that happened
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: before that, and as part of that, one of the
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: things they do is vote to send a bunch of
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: sisters to the Black Tower as a delegation to bond
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: them as warders.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Right, because they send an envoy to Saladar because Rand
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: is offering for compensatory bonding.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I think that's what it is.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Then the voice says a man just tried to
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: listen in, and that cascades the Halima reveal, right right,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: right right, because there is a man there who can
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: feel Sidark or Sideine being channeled and that's why Helima's
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: probe gets detected.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: So and it seems like Lelaane is the one who
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: arranges to get rid of all of Agwaine's supporters by
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: including them in this delegation. Okay, and she does that
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: basically to solidify her own power under Agwayne.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: That's what is best I could figure out is to
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: why those four basically the four supporters niss Al, Myreel, Phelan, Antheodrin,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: some of which were not the most appropriate one already
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: has a warder or two of which are you know,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: novice or still accepted whatever part right accepted, Like, it
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: doesn't make sense for them to be part of that
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: delegation to go bond a bunch of Black Tower warders.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: And they do eventually give up their spots to other
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: sisters and don't bond anybody from the Black Tower.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: So did they come back to the tower, and then
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: there's just there's there's a big kind of gap with
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: that delegation, and then they're just kind of in the
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: last battle, so there's not there's some some gaps around this.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: They go into the Black Tower after it's liberated by
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Pavara and Andral right and become part of that delegation basically,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: but they're not really involved in it. They're just kind
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: of sitting outside the walls for most of that.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: So they're not part of the time being thrown out,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: taking people over, turning the eyes to die. They're not
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: present for any of them.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: No, because they're all like Pavara is like the only
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: one that survives that.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, so the rest of them are just camping
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: outside the walls while their sisters get turned.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Right because they're outside that like bub because there's the dome, right,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: the spike that that prevents traveling in and out, and
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I think they're outside of that.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, the dream spikepike. Yeah, that's such a wild
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: duex Machina to just throw in at the end of
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: the books. Oh, by the way, there's this thing that
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: only exists it's in the dream world that completely changes
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: the rules of traveling. It's like Brandon Sanderson was like, oh, no,
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: traveling's too powerful. I need something to nerve traveling.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Well, you know what. To me, it does make sense
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: that there would be a terror on real that protects
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: your home from someone traveling into it.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: It does really fit the cosmology of the world, right.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Like, I love the dream Spike. It's weird that there's
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: two of them. I would rather he just had done
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: one of them, right, the fact that he pulls to.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Check a box of twelve right right.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Right, right. But you know whatever, I do like the
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: concept of the dream Spike. I will not never complain
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: about that. I like the way it was used. I
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: like the way paren the way allowed Telerondriad to interact
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: with the real world. Like, I think all of that
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: is really well done. Like it's one of the reasons
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: though I think the second book is is really is
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: certainly better than this one overall. Right, there's good scenes
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: in this one for sure.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So the dream Spike is coming into play
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: in the Black Tower sometime in the near future or
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: right around now. Yeah, but is that maybe why they're yeah, now,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: that is this because it's happened, because they're like, uh,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: what is it? Don't they say, like with traveling, they
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: should have been back by now, I should have sent
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: word yep. So the dreamspike is in play at this
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: point because there's nothing else that explains it. That that
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: is the silence is the Dreamspike. Oh I had not
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: quite put that together.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, cool, Yeah, I don't think I had either until
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: we started talking about it.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: That's interesting too that Aguayn's supporters were sent away again,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: not by a dark friend or by a black Ajia plot,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: but just by people ostensibly on the light side just
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: being ambitious and petty and short sighted.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Shocking sabotaged by your own side.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: That never happens.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: The next thing I have is Shariam wasn't lying about
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: the Taran Greel, the dream Tereran Greral going missing.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, I was feeling very gratified to read this because
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: we were real confused about it a couple recordings ago.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: I'm still a little confused as to why Shariam lost
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: a pinky right because she reported nineteen there were twenty
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: originally there's nineteen in storage because she knows that the
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: one or did we get confused about it again? They're
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: all gone whatever it is, and we think that Suwan
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: still has one of them, and that's the reason that
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Sherrion lost a pinky, because it was one less than
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: was reported. Fucks, and just because they're all gone, well, they.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Still would have the one that was with Swan.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: But that's not what they're reporting, right. They're reporting they're
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: all gone because nobody knows the one is with Swan.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Does that ever come up again?
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: I think because that's how Swan and a GWayne were
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: meeting in a GWayne knows because that's how they were
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: meeting in the dream too, right, Right for her imprisonment,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: because Swan didn't have normal access, Yeah, because she is
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: tasked with taking nineteen of them after the supposed loss
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: of the one that Leanna supposed that they had that
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Swan actually had, So why did she lose a pink?
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: She truthfully says, they're twenty eighteen for the hall, one
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: for her and one for the other Leanne hand when
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: she was captured. So I think that and the nineteen
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: they say are missing, right, So that means she probably
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: didn't get the one. It's just one Leanne has because
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: I think she still has that because I don't think
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: that she knew it was passed on to Suan, so
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: she couldn't get it from Leanne.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Right, So no one knows that that one is. That's
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: the thing is, like why would Leanne have had it
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: with her when she went to do the mission, Like
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: would you not leave the Turan grioll at home?
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know, no, I mean, it was just assumed
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: that they searched her cabin and didn't find it, so
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: it was assumed she had it on her.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: And then yeah, but again, like she told the forsaken
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: that there were nineteen nineteen available.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: That's a good point. Yeah, so maybe it just took
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: her fingers being like, man, I don't care if you
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: can't get the one from Leanne, if she's captured too bad,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: you should have figured out a way to get it. Yeah,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: that's that's the only thing I can think is just
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: like that, you know, malicious compliance about like get the all.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I don't care if it's not possible. I don't care
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: if you only got nineteen. I don't care if the
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: other one's completely out of reach in the tower. You
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: should have gotten them all.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Those are things I remember, sure. I'm specifically thinks all
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: nineteen of them a question mark, question mark exclamation put
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: an exclamation point, like nineteen was the number she should
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: have been like, I'm just so confused because she specific
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: remember the audiobook, the way that Kate Reading's voice goes
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: all nineteen of them. I remember that very specifically. So
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I'm just I'm so controlled. This feels like doing a
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: math problem, and it's stressing me out.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Your guess as good as mine. Maybe she just got
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: punished for being slow or something like that.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Sure, sure, somebody give us a short explanation, we'll read
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: it into the episode.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they did that. She like doesn't know how to
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: cover it up. It's like, how could she cover this up?
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Like she took them, it was recorded that she took them,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: or would she what would she do with them? It's
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: like she wasn't thinking that far. She was just panicking
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: and took them.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: She didn't get to think that far. She was being
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: burned as an asset by her handler. You know, Hansa
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: didn't care if that was the end of her ability
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: to be a useful tool.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: She just wanted the tools mm hmm' just like I
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: think at that point she would have had to flee
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: if discovered.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, and Massanna couldn't care less. Yeah. So Ramanda
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: then is like, so do you think that she was
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: right about there being a forsaken in the tower, and
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: a Queen's like, yeah, probably, not mentioning very carefully, not
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: mentioning that she knows for a fact based on Varren's
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: reporting that that is super what's happening. Because she's like,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to keep those cards so close to
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: the jest so close.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: And unfortunately that does misleader a little bit about who's
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: killing people in the tower, right, because she's like, Oh,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: I'm looking for a forsaken loose and you've got these
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Sean Chan assassins loose in the tower. Yeah, the blood knives.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: So there's that little bit of misdirection that ends up
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: sending her in the wrong direction, and let's a bunch
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: of fly said I die. Frankly, it's one of her
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: bigger failures in my opinion, that she like hyper focuses
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: on the forsaken even though a lot of these murders
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: are happening without any channeling.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't even think it's that big of a
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: failure on her part because she doesn't even know what's happening.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: She just fucks up.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Real Time Wiki is saying she lost a finger because
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: she didn't get the twentieth one.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: But she does. In the audiobook, she specifically squeaks about
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: the number nineteen as being what she's requested to get,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: So the Real Time Wiki is wrong.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Well, just because I think she's wrong, she probably shows
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: up with all nineteen and she's like, well, where's the
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: twentieth one? She's like I told you, it's in the tower.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: I can't get it. He's like two fucking bad. Gave
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: me that pinky.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: That would be very very dark friendy. It doesn't seem
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: like Masana per se, but it does seem very dark
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: friendly in general. So maybe she was having a bad day.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I've been convinced that actually, if you had to lose
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: a finger, you shouldn't lose your pinky. You should lose
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: your pointer.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Finger.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: You had to choose because of the way grips work, right, Like,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I actually see what you mean. The punter is kind
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: of the most redundant of all.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: And everything you can do with your pointer you can
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: do with your middle finger.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's disquieting.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: But the pinky actually is a large contributor to your
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: grip strength.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The ring finger really barely pulls its weight at all,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: like truly.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And the pointer just doesn't doesn't do anything to do
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: with that, almost barely affects your grip strength at all.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: When it comes to grip. Yeah, no, you're totally right. No,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: we can't lose the middle finger and then tuck. Then
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: how are you going to tell people how you feel?
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: That's right? I mean that's like half my vocabulary right there.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Let's see. So, yeah, we got we got forsaken in
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: the tower. Gowin following going wasn't certain what to do
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: with him yet. You never will be just right, like Jesus.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I know he's going to save your life a couple
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: of times. Fine, but he's also going to end it.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Don't bond him as a order. It's just like he
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: should be another soldier, it should be another guard, right like.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So she's being very cautious about what Alida might
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: do because she doesn't want to get captured like a
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: dumb ass again, you know which fair. You know she
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: doesn't know what's happened to Alida. It makes sense to
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: use a double dose of caution given how it went
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: last time. You made assumptions about what Alida could and
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: couldn't do to you.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Because they're riding to war basically, right, this is this
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: is the end of the siege. There's no more point in.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Brin makes this point later, there's no point in continuing
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: the siege if they've got gateways because you're not blocking anything.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly. She has this vanishingly small window and
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: she's going to do it. But she's going to do
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: it safely and not get killed, and her moment of
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: victory I approve of that.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Then there's an interaction here between her and Suan where
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: she's basically like, oh, yeah, I see you took a
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: order again, but you're still in the doghouse.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basically like congratulations on getting a warder, but also like,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: we have a relationship to repair and it's not going
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: to be done today.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: So then they get to the walls after that conversation
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: with Swan, which goes on for a while, and they
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: noticed that just like the forces on the walls are
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: just not really there.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: There's perhaps a thousand sleep deprived, beleaguered soldiers in total
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: versus Brin's well rested ten thousand, and Brin's like, this
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: feels off. This doesn't feel like the battle we were
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: setting up for. We're missing something, and Igwain agrees, and.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I think they're missing that there's no leader, Like the
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Alida has been captured, so there's no leadership inside the tower,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: so there's no one to get the troops up and
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: on the walls.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Well, and the leadership is in the act of deciding
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: that they want to essentially surrender, right right, even if
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: they're like what leadership there is is all pointed at
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: the stand down an option, So like the soldiers are
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: out there because their squad leader says, I guess we
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: continue to defend our section.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Of wall, right exactly right?
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Well, the eyes did I dicker inside about like exactly
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: like what letterhead they want to put on the invitation
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: or whatever? I get so annoyed with the tower, is said,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I for how long it takes them to like down
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: and deal with these terrified soldiers who were looking at
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: certain death and just they take their sweet time.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Remember the debate we saw with them in the last
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: couple chapters, right that I think is happening at this time.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I think we've got overlapping time where like this hour
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: where she's waiting is when that debate is happening.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, more or less, and I'm just like, get it together, women.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Agwayne is holding back on the strength of a sheer
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: reluctance to be the Omorlin who attacked that is narrow,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: narrow margins.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: So yeah, Brinn says, you know, I basically got an
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: hour before like we're going to be fighting, you know,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: before it starts to get dark and then fighting doesn't
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: make sense in the dark, right, and then we'll have
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: to wait for tomorrow. And then that sort of like
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: defeats the surprise because everyone's going to be rested and
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: everything right. And she waits the hour in debates and debates,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: and then waits a little bit more and just as
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: she's about to, you know, in typical movie.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Style, too movie perfect.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, too movie perfect, close to a movie perfom.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, this is a book. Stop it. Oh wow,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: we've got some We've got some quotes in the chat,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: thank you. I have to scroll up to see who
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: this is, because wow, athlon, of course it's Athlon. Okay,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: we had twenty, but what was with the woman Leanne
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: who was captured? That leaves us with nineteen.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: So it does seem to be that Sheriam is misinterpreting
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: what Masana is saying, right, because Masaana says, give me
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: all the meals a fingerte for each one you don't capture,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: and then she goes all nineteen and it's like, is
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: that think I think Masana meant all twenty?
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: H shit, I think you're right. I think she totally
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: rules lawyered herself into a little sadistic tree at the
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: end of a long day. Oh my god, I never
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: noticed that, but that is absolutely what happened. That is
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: absolutely what happened. That isn't even headcan and that is
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: iron clad evidence on the page. Wow, thank you Athlon
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: and Seth because uh, hell of a take. But no,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Massana totally would rules lawyer her way into just doing
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: a little cold torture.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Just yeah, here's the nineteen you asked for. No, no,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I said all of them, but but all of them
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: is nineteen No all you said there was one in
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: the tower that counts. No, chop chop chop.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is so oh my god. Masana would rules
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: lawyer her way into a little, a little pinky removal
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: like she I just don't see her as going out
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: of her way, but if it's a rules lawyering moment,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Masana definitely would go out of her way. Like for sure,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: I know because Massa is my favorite for sake, and
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: I like being a rules lawyer.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: That is the type of foresake, and she is Yeah,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: that's totally you're right. Yeah, and so.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah the eyes did I come out and say, igwaite alvire,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: we would like to surrender please, and thank you and
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Igwan goes for real though, what about Alaia? And they're like,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: shan Chin, It's amazing how much information They just boom
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: across the river at each other.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: This is yelling at each other, right, Yeah, this is
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: basically catching up on the two plot lines we've been
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: reading the whole time, which is what's going on on
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: your side. Yeah, and we've got the ten sitters, two
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: from each Adjah except for the Blue and the Red.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: The Blukes they don't exist the Red because that would
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: be insulting and they're in disgrace right now. Two because
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: there's a bunch of people missing and captured.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: They have a real lack of people to pick from at.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: This point, not to mention a munch that have fled,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: which we'll find out about in the next chapter, because
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: they've heard about the purge happening out in the camps.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, basically, and yeah yeah. So then Aguyn demands
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: a couple of things, that you'll let the army enter
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: and that you'll reinstate the blue and not be dicks
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: about it, to which and Dya says, we definitely figured
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: you would ask that, and yes, super cool, of course,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: no debate like unconditional surrender.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Basically, I would like to revoke all of the mad
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Woman's policies. Sure, yeah, no problem.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would like to control z this entire block
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: of bullshit. Yes, way ahead, you already done. Good to go.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: And then there's just there's a whole lot of sort
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: of symbolism starting here and going on to the next
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: chapter about how the tower stands but it's bleeding and wounded,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: but the it's healing and just you know, it all
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: kind of represents the holes in it from the black
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Odd job. But it's like you've got these new Tower novices,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: this new group of novices coming in who are going
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: to fill the hall again, like it's it's there's a
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: lot of symbolism going into this next chapter.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think we can just roll right into
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: chapter forty six to be forged again because it's literally
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: just jump cut ten minutes and Aguena is now in
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: the green room for the Hall of the Tower, basically
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: the Omberlin's green room.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: And after crossing the bridge to Tarvallin right like they
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: invited her in, she she crossed. Now she's in.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: And in this chapter she thinks about or she extorts
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: the Isesidie to realize that, you know, blacksmiths talk about
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: how you need to reforge a sword from scraps, and
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I'm like, so, why is that so hard to swallow?
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: And Rand suggests it.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: With the god Nils.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Literally made this argument like I mean, the part repair
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: and has to walk her through her own analogy from
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: a week prior is just like what.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: That interaction is frustrating for me. It's like she goes
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: through all this trouble to like reunite the tower and
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: you're like, oh, finally it's reunited behind a GWayne and
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: the dragon reborn, and then she just kind of is
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: a dick to him, and it's like it's one of
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: the reasons I think a lot of people do tend
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: to not like a GWayne. Is this just like but
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: you were supposed to be there, Like the way that
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Niinive is there for Rand in the last battle, it
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: feels like a GWayne isn't, And like she's there in
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: the battle itself, but leading up to it, she's just
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: this opposition and he uses her and she gathers all
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: this opposition and then he changes her. Like there's a
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: whole thing to it. I get why he wrote it
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: the way he did, but it makes her appear very
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: unlikable and unreasonable for an unreasonable amount of time.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Well, and especially because it doesn't feel in character with
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: like what she's doing here right exactly. It's not like
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: she's always been like that, Like she suddenly beats comes
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: way less reasonable than she was. Like really suddenly like this,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Agwayne feels like she should be gonna get around to
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: hanging out with Randon being cool. And then when that
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: actually happens, as very different result comes out and it
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: feels very odd and upsetting. But that will not happen
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: quite yet.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: I really do think this is Peakagwayin for me, Like
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: he really nailed Agwayne here.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree. There are some speech sections in
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: this chapter that do need to be read and full
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: because it really is. This is as Peakagwayine as her
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: blasting rockin out of the sky with Vora Saw and Greel.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: It's the same level of just this is what we wanted,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: This is glorious, all hail.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: So she's talks a little bit about how like, yeah,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: she's got to redo the ceremony, but the ceremony is
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: not that important, Like getting it right isn't super important.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: The decisions have been made, but the symbolism of redoing
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: the ceremony is important, right, so that both sides get
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: a chance to raise her up as Amrelin. Right.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: It's not for her, it's for the other Eyes to die, right,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: She's been only raised by half of them, and that's
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: not fair. So but yeah, she's not worried about getting
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: the steps wrong. I love the fact that she's being
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: instructed by a librarian Brown who literally could give a
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: rat's ass about all of the drama and turmoil. Like
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: she's a loyalist because she doesn't come out of her
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: office except when there's a new Ombrelind to raise, and
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: so she didn't leave with the rebellion. But she was
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: never loyal to Alida. She was loyal to being an archivist.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: She's loyal to the books, which didn't move, so that's
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: why she's there.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I just love like she is quintessential Brown, right,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: completely lost in the books and her own world and
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: just truly doesn't care about anything outside of this one
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: job she has.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: And as far as I can tell, this is a
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: singular mention of her as well in the.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Series single Serving Eyes to Die, if ever there was one.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Serving eyes to eye. Yeah. So, and then the next
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: part is I think a little hard to swallow, but
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: really necessary, right that, Like the rebels have to apologize
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: for rebelling, and it's like you might have had a
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: good reason for doing it, but it was still a crime.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: And so yeah, like and I feel like that that
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: happens a lot. I don't know if that happens in
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: political in courtrooms very much, but it feels like it
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: should write this idea that like, yeah, you killed the
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: person in self defense, but you still kill them and
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: you might want to apologize for that. No, maybe bad,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: that's a bad example. I'm trying. Yeah, you're right, I'm
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: trying to I paused too long on that. I'm trying
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: to try to come up with a good one.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: No, I feel what you mean, because it feels like, no,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: that rebellion had to happen, but also, in order for
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: the institution to properly heal, you have to acknowledge the
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: illegality of what. I don't know. I'm enough of an
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: abolitionist and an anarchist that I find the whole let's
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: venerate the institution above all else things distasteful, which makes
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: it hard for me to fully inhabit the logic here.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: But I think it matters more because this is institutional
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: This isn't an individual person on person conflict. This is
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: in institutions splitting down the middle and then needing to
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: come back together. And they're all operating in their positions
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: essentially in this institution rather than as like people. So
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: I can kind of accept it for that, but I
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: don't know. Man Alida really like it helps that she
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: dresses the hall down later. She really scolds both sides
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: and tells them both that they were a problem, and like,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: you know, again, one side was empirically the real problem
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: and the other side simply made complicated choices to respond.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: So I don't know that it's fair to call both
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: sides equally culpable, but at the same time do that
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: is what allows both sides to set the whole thing
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: in the past, And like, is it a necessary fiction
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: that we need in order to actually do the future?
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's worth it. I don't know. I don't know.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I little white lies to help an institution get unhooked
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: from the past seem acceptable, I guess on the morality scale.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe a better example is if you have like two
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: little kids fighting, and you make them apologize to each other,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: and it's like, yeah, you know, one of them probably
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: started it, but like it doesn't matter, Like they're just
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: they're little kids who are fighting and overwhelmed and are
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: emotionally just can't control themselves and so need to apologize
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: in order to move on and play again together. And
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: I think comparing the isid I to little children is
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: more appropriate.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's silly, because institutions should have more maturity
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: than developing brains. But the isid I have empirically proven
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: that is not always the truth, even though you would
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: think it should be. It isn't men.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Talk only if they meant it, only if they actually
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: meant it.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: The thing with I mean to get to a more
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: real example. The thing with de radicalizing someone is it
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: has to be their choice and you have to be
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: willing to let them come back. Like no one has
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: ever deradicalized because you were a meanie pants to them.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: The only people who have ever deradicalized themselves are people
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: who felt that they could start talking to you. Is,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: start talking to someone and like start to work their
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: way out. Like, you can't deradicalize someone by saying you
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: are beyond repair and you are beyond reach like it,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: they will not deradicalize from whatever their stances.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: But fine, I guess I wasn't a good mother anyway.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: But you also need real repair, which involves like restitution
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: and changed behavior, and you know, not to be you
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: need to change your behavior like true change behavior, which
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: like in Agwain's case, you know, the behavior in question
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: was a light of being terrible and the rebellion against her.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: So if we can all agree that we're not going
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: to continue those behaviors, which is an easy cell in
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: this case, then you know it's possible to do the
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: other parts of apology. But like, yeah, people need to
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: actually stop doing the thing that caused the need for
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: the apology in order for the words to mean anything.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Well, and you know, technically the overthrow of the Ambulin
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: was legal, right, so the letter of the law. They
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: followed the letter of the law. Despite all the flaws
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: in that pointed out by Agwayne, it was the letter
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: of the law. So the rebellions were technically breaking the
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Tower law when they rebelled.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Right, and carrying that caveat forward as a cause for
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: grievance is a recipe for disaster, So better to just
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: be like apologized for breaking the law for good reasons anyway,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: moving on.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: So that I can pardon you, right, and then no
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: one can ever come at you. It's like this is
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: this literally like the apology is almost there so that
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: you can say, see, they apologized, I'm pardoning them. No
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: one can really talk about it anymore, no one can
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: bring it up anymore. Right, So it's it's almost a
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: way of like just acknowledging that to get it out
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: of the way and legally get it out of the
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: way as well.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's taking all the air out of those sales,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: just completely puncturing those balloons.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Like no, because you can see how you like prosecuting
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: one half of the tower over this schism.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: That's a permanent rift, it's a permanent othering. She has
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: to get people to stop othering each other after they
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: have been very violently othering each other. It's a hard ask,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: and yeah, for both sides to feel put upon. I mean,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: as Matt often tells us, right, the best deal between
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: horse traders is where both people think that they got
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: the better deal, where both people think that they had
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: to compromise. Right, you won't both parties to feel more
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: or less the same emotionally, walking away whatever you have
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: to do to get there. That's how it's a good deal.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: There's a Golin section. He wants to come with her.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: They go, oh, is this your order? She goes nope
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: and walks away.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm like, could this not be the last time
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: we see him?
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: He's like, you can't come? Wait here? Okay? Bye?
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, which is water things? Right, She's got to
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: go do all of the tower stuff. Warders don't get
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: to come in. And then yeah, she thinks briefly about
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: how in her accepted testing she actually experienced this moment
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: standing at these doors and going in, which is a
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: nice callback to book two.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: I also like that she exchanges her boots for slippers.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: There's this like moment of like, she's no longer external
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: to the tower. She's inside the tower again, So she
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: has slippers on.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Oh she goes from her outdoor shoes to her indoor shoes.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I didn't even think about that. Yeah, wow, so symbolic,
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: so appropriate because she's inhabiting the tower again. Yeah, and
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: also now she can't be out gallivanting having adventures in
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: her working boots. She's to wear the soft, delicate indoor
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: boots of a powerful woman.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: So I'm laughing at and then talks, you, I stepped
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: in a Gawain chapter. I didn't even know it was there.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: I thought it was an Gwain chapter. Just a little,
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: just a little just it's just you just get a whiff,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: you like, did I? You're like, oh, yeah, yeah, I
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: did a little bit. Hold only scrape only scrape. I
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: want to get that goal on off of me.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: And then she goes into the hall and sees the
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: most symbolically fortuitous piece of damage that the tower during
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: the Shawn Jan attack. There's this blasted out hole in
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: the wall that just perfectly missed the omberline seat and
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: frames Dragon mount. It's really cinematic, and I'm not even
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: mad about it because it looks really cool. In my mind,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: it does look really cool. And then she puts a
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: rose window in it later because she's like, yeah, that
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: looks really cool, let's do that.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: And so they've they've painted the throne to have all
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: seven colors, but they haven't replaced the three blue add
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: jaw seats, so there's not twenty one seats, there's only eighteen.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: I think the floor is still six spiraled. They only
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: did the throne or something like, or they got the
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: and they got the stole has seven colors because that
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: was not destroyed. It still existed somewhere.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, someone just s tucked it away for like yeah,
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: right where we'll eventually have the blue a jaw.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Back right, Yeah, totally. So the room is definitely still
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: a working construction zone, totally, lot of levels.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Well it's been twenty four hours and a lot of
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: people were wounded and exhausted and like yeah.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's still just a blaze blasted open hole
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: throwing wind into the room. Right. They're doing this whole
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: thing with like essentially in an indoor outdoor combo situation.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: And so you then what you've got is a list
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: of sitters who are sitting on the throne there, like,
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: of those they're not sitters, Yeah, these are sitters. Sitters.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the eleven sitters there should be twenty one under
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: ordinary circumstances, there are eleven possible. It's a wild bit
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: of damage in chaos that they're going through right now.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: So you've got Sarin Docene, you'r Kiri Suana, and then
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: the other six the according to just the wiki is
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Julianne Chevin and Danya, Rina Rubindi and Faryen.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: I recognize all those names, I think.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Probably, So that's the list of the eleven Sitters who
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: are still there to have the vote. I didn't really
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: look into a lot of them at this point, but
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of these names are very familiar. I mean
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: Serene and Docene Hunter. Yeah. The Black Counch of Hunters
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: is a good group there, Yeah, because a lot of
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: those were part of that group.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think some of the other ones are
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: also their Adja head sure. Possibly, Yeah, we've seen all
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: of them. They're not single serving eyes.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, these are all ones that have popped
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: up multiple times. And same thing with these the Black
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Sitters sisters who have fled. Right, You've got Tallene who
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: fled weeks ago, Evan Ellen, Velina, Siedor and Duhara. These
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: are all actually pretty significant Isidie in the books who
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: have then been declared black, who are now determined to
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: be black Aja and have fled for various reasons.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Right, and then there's a couple of other Eyes to
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Die who are missing and because of the timing, Iguaine
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: is wondering if they're black Aja, and you know, in
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: the case of Pavara, we know she's not.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: No no, no, yeah, because.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Like a whole bunch of reds went on that secret mission.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: They weren't all black Auja, but the timing makes it confusing.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: Javindra and Parvara were not. They disappeared before it was.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: But Duhara is Eveleene is Agwayne kills Evelyn until her
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: run Riod in Towers of Midnight.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Ah yeah, yeah, let's see.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: I don't have us where Tolene ends up, but she's
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Duhara tries to uh woo Elaine. Right, she's over and
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: that's where she is.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's an and or so.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: And then Velena and Sidora were just on the list
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: and I think they might be she flinches when Alvin
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: enters a room earlier. So there's like a Velena You're like, oh,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: we got a little clue there. And Sidor let's see
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Agwayne kills her and tell her run Riod. So yeah,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: this is just just some black sisters that we get
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: that either end up in battle or kind of become
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: part of the last battle. So I'm glad, I'm glad
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: he did that. I'm glad he let some of them
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: escape to become the dread Lords in the last battle.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was satisfying for sure. You want to see that. No,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: they got away, that's gonna be a problem. Oh no,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: it was in fact a problem.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: I want that, And like, you know, can imagine what
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: would have happened if she hadn't stopped fifty of them, right,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: that's a huge force of especially considering how few I
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: said ei there actually are left. But yeah, I think
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: there's another like one hundred and fifty out there somewhere,
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: because there was like a bunch that escaped from the
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: tower and a bunch that were just on the loose already.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: So there's a good amount in the last battle for sure.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's one hundred now, so yeah, yeah, eleven let's see.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: So Agwayne before the ceremony is like, have Sylviana brought
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: in here right, like because she wants to raise her
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: as keeper, and everyone else is like, oh, she's gonna
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: punish her, But it's like, no, she's going to raise
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: her up his keeper because she's probably all the good reasons.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: I think it's one of the better choices she makes, honestly,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: and trying to reunite the Tower.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: No, this goes a long way in terms of healing
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: the deep, fundamental, subconscious rifts that have been sprung up
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: in the Tower. To choose a red loyalist as keeper
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: is like, there's not a bigger compromise you can make
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: as the former rebel leader who was raised by a
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: collection of blues. You know, there's just no deeper way
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: to say that's in the past now.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: So the ceremony happens. I don't have a lot of
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: notes on that other than they all they're all a
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: little scared of her. So they all stand right away.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the ones who pledge for her at the beginning,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: they stand right away, like you know, there's just yeah,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: it all goes very smoothly and quickly. Agwaine thinks about
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: how she's gonna have to be firm with them, like
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: firm leadership, a firm hand. And I'm just like, man,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: she's got some backbone, Like she is so young looking
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: at this room full of some of the most powerful
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: women in the word, being like, these girls need to
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: get settled down.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Children.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: Peak a Gwain, just peak a Gwain. That she looks
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: at them and goes, yeah, I can take them.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: So they raise her to the ambulan seat.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: No fuss, no mus no right. Nobody tries to make
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: her do the foot washing, asking to serve thing. They
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: need her right, And she thinks about it too, Like
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: she looks under the ceremony and sees that, like they're
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: all scared, not of her, but of the world, and
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: they desperately want an omorline. And that is what actually
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: helps them sleep at night, is knowing there's an omorline. So,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of reasons to stand up.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: She might kill you or the world might kill you.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: She's the only thing standing between the world and you.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: So and so then Sylviana shows up and you Carri's like, mother,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: is this really the best time to be dispensing justice?
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: And I think what follows is one of the best
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: speech slap downs that is so relevant to what's going
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: on to me in the United States right now. It's
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: I really want to read it or I want you
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: to read it. I don't know, are you in up
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: for reading the whole thing? Oh? Yeah, okay for it,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: go for it.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah. After she you know, lets you Kiri
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: be like, oh do you want this burden in Gwen's
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: like I have been doing this burden. Give it to me,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: Just give me the damn burden. And then yeah, she
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: gives them this speech. You all bear a great deal
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: of shame, she said, stiff faced, eyes to die, raised
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: eyebrows and opened eyes wider. They seemed angry. They had
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: no right. Their anger was nothing beside hers this, Igwaine said,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: gesturing toward the broken wall. You bear responsibility for this,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: she pointed at Sylviana, still kneeling. You bear responsibility for this.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: You bear responsibility for the way our sisters regard one
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: another in the halls, and you bear responsibility for letting
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: the tower remain so long in division. Many of you
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: bear responsibility for that division in the first place. You
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: are a disgrace. The White Tower, the pride of the Light,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: the power for stability and truth since the age of Legends,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: has nearly been shattered because of you. Eyes bugged out,
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: and a few women choked in shock. Elida one began.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Elida was a mad woman, and you all know it,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Agwaine said, sternly, standing tall, staring them down. You knew
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: it these last few months, as she worked unwittingly to
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: destroy us light. Many of You probably knew it when
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: you raised her in the first place. There have been
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: foolish omrelinds before, but none have come as close to
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: tearing down the entire tower. You are a check upon
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: the ommereline. You are to keep her from doing things
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: like this. You allowed her to disband an entire raja.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: What were you thinking? How is it that you allowed
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: the tower to fall so far and when the dragon
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: reborn himself walks the land. No less, you should have
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: removed Alida the moment you heard of her disastrous attempt
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: to confine Randolphor you should have removed her when you
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: saw how her bickering and pettiness was turning odds against
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: one another. And you should certainly have removed her when
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: she refused to do what was needed to bring the
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: tower together again whole as one. Egwaine looked down the
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: lines of sisters, staring at each one in turn, meeting
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: each set of eyes until they looked away. None dared
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: hold her gaze for long. Finally she saw shame begin
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: to peek through their masks as well it should none
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: of you would stand up to her. Igwain spat you
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: dare call yourself the hall of the tower, You who
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: were cowed, You who were too frightened to do what
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: was needed, You who were too cut up in your
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: own squabbles and politicting to see what was needed. Igwain
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: looked down at Sylviana. Only one woman in this room
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: was willing to stand up for what she knew to
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: be right. Only one woman dared defy Alida, and she
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: accepted the price of doing so. And you think I
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: brought this woman here to exact vengeance on her? Are
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: you really so blinded that you think I'd punish the
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: only person in the entire tower who did anything of
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: decency these last few months. They were all looking down now,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: even Sarah, and wouldn't meet her eyes. Sylvianna looked up
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: at her. You did your duty, Sylviana Agwin said, And
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: you did it well. Rise. Just throw that woman a
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: fucking bouquet.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Right right? Oh man, No, I just I want to
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: like yell that at Congress and just replace all the names.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, you should have seen. We've had foolish presidents before,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: like we should be. We should be dealing with so
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: many things, Like we're the United fucking States. We're supposed
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: to be a shining city on a hill. We've never
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: had a president who's trying to just name political assassinations
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: and tell terrorists to stand back and stem on and
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: on every single thing she says, swap a couple of
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: names and everything else water tight.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: And that was well done. I like that. The outrage
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: was good.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Kate Redding set me up well, and my anger at
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: the current moment fuels the fire Kate reading. She talks
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: about this in various like con discussions about her experience
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: of delivering lines, and she talks about how anger, righteous anger,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: is the emotion that she really loves doing the most
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: and gets the most like personal satisfaction and like emotion
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: out of as a narrator, and it comes through when
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: she reads this part.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Righteous anger and pure insanity are my two favorite parts
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: to read.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Being absolutely evil and absolutely righteous
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: the two most appealing roles to inhabit.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: They're pure, They ring like a bell. You know that emotion,
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: you know that feeling when you're in the right about
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: something or when you just want something to die. You know,
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: like there's that anger and then and then there's that purity. Right.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: That's like it doesn't come many from almost any other emotion.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a perfect third. It just rings really.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: Anyway, that's that is the great you know, between that
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: and her throwing fireballs from the tower, Like, this book
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: is peak a Gwain, Right, this book is why we
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: love a GWayne. This is like the stuff she does
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: in this book is awesome. She reunites the tower, She
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: slaps those isid eye into order. She you know, puts
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: puts them in their place, and really brings the United
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: White Tower to the last battle.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she takes some of the most powerful, disorganized people
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: and organizes them.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: She herds cats, She heards cats.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: So effectively, and she manages to like make everyone happy
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: in the Bargain where she's really encompassing all the ajos right,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: Like her gray is showing with the way that she
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: is scolding and reprimanding. And then you know she turns
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: to uplifting after naming Sylviana right like she goes she
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: takes the Hall on a whole ass hero's journey in
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: this session, and yeah, Sylviana accepts the offer of Keeper
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: with reserve and calmness and respect, and you know she's
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: she's perfect for it. She really is a good choice.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Little discussion about what the Red Adjaw is going to
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: be in the future. Will Sylvian is like there will
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: always be rogue channelers and men who cannot be trusted,
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: and A Gwayne's like, well, this hopefully won't always be
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: men who can't be trusted, Like that's not what we're
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: going for here in the future.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: But you know, maybe not today, maybe next week we'll
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: figure that out.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Maybe after the last battle. Good luck with that agwayin.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but you know it makes sense, right, there's
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: what the Red Oddjous purpose on paper is, and there's
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: what their subconscious programming is, and like the latter will
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: be a slower process to rework, Like it's just how
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: humans are. The important thing is, you know, beginning the
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: process of accepting that male channelers are not automatically your job.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: M m. But you can see how maybe they need
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: to work with the IEL to be part of the
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: police force to take down rogue channelers.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: I would love to see an ideal red Auja, Like,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, that was one thing I loved about the
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: show's world building, was like that the red Auja is
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: just the enforcers, like because I mean, it really with
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: the rate at which channeling shows up at the population
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: for female channelers. I don't think you need the red
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: Auja to be dedicated only to male channelers. I feel
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: like they're going to have a lot of extra time
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: on their hands. It makes sense for them to be
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: enforcers of more than just male channeling, like enforcers of
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: lots of stuff. So yeah, seeing the partner with the
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: IEO would be devastatingly effective.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: And then so I like how this is an issue
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: where she talks aboutw We're gonna have to like give
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: up certain positions right because we have a merger of
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: two towers basically, and we have too many keepers or
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: too many, too many sitters and too many adja heads.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: And Sylvia was like, do you have too many keepers?
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: And she's like, no, I executed my last one for
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: being a.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: Well the other one was black Auja. Actually turns out no.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: No, I took her head off. Yeah, so we're good.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: So it was like, oh, okay, so had a busy
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: day since I last saw you and beat you, right,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: which is like that's got to be crazy. Like this
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: girl who I beat every day just casually told me
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: she slaughtered the last person who was in my position.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: I hope think about that for a second. Think about
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: that for a second.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Right, It's like that moment you were describing earlier when
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: someone goes from stranger to friend just because you realize
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: what their screen name is and they're no longer a
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: random person. It's that sort of thing like you were
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: a child. Oh you're pe.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, you're very dangerous.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's one more piece of aguain speech
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: that I want to read as we get to this page.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: And I am not guiltless either. I share some of
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: your shame, for it was during my tenure that these
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: disasters occurred. I sided with the rebels, allowed myself to
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: be raised by them because it was the only choice.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: But that choice still gives me culpability. Bear your shame, sitters,
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: but bear it with determination. Do not let it break you.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: The time for healing has begun, and there is no
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: longer any use in pointing fingers. You failed, but you
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: are all that we have. We are all that the
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: world has. I like that. She like the hope at
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: the bottom of Pandora's box, like, yeah, you fucked up,
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: admit it and move on because you're still alive, which
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: means you can do better, which is again something that
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of hand ringing. People in the real world
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: need to come to grips with like, it's not over
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: till you're dead. Guys, we need to stop pointing fingers
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: and think about what we're actually going to do. So
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: I like that, she says that. Oh, and then and
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: then we we we mentioned that maybe the Turan grill
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: rooms should be secret and secure and moved from where
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: it currently is, maybe maybe.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: Away from someone a gateways. Yeah, finally, never thought about
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: that with Forsaken. But you know why for Saken didn't
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: rate it first. We don't know that.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: We don't know, but we'll we'll try now.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: It's like, why didn't messana gateway down to that room
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: the second she learned about it and starts distributing, like
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: using the distribution of the Terran Grill and the ongrioll
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: among the Forsaken to get herself to a position of
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: power and train them for favors and stuff like that.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: I love bargaining chips.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I still think it's one of the bigger plot holes.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: But it's being plugged now. However late it is still
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: being plugged now.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a little too late, it is.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: It is way too late.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: They talk about getting a new Mistress of the Novices
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: because now that Sylviana has been elevated, who ends up
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: being mistress of the Novices? I don't remember.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. I have no idea who the mistress
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: of the Novices becomes.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: Well, gee, what happened to Oradiopedia?
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: Come on, we're in the last three books My Powers
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: of Wayne? Oh? Is it Rosil the from Saladar from
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: the rebel camp? Because the rebel camp has a mistress
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: of Novices. She's very young and overwhelmed by the job,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: which I don't know why Agwayne is just like, well,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: I need a new one. I guess because she just
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: figures that Rosil is not up to the task. I
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: don't know that sms kind of rude because Rosel doesn't
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: get killed like Cheeriom, so.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: H.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, if she's overwhelmed, maybe she's like, yeah, we
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: definitely need a new one.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I feel like we need a one
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: mistress of Novices with like three deputy mistress of novices
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: under her for the hundreds. I don't think any one
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: woman can handle hundreds of them. No, it's it's not
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Sharina Sharena is taking on a lot of the responsibilities
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: just because no one else is competent. But she's not formally,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: she's not even nice to die, so she can't be
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: the distress anovisis, did you hear that is the talk snoring?
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally heard that.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: He's like he's chasing something in his sleep and growling
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: at it and like snorting. He's got his head he's
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: got his head on on my foot and he's totally asleep.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: What a good boy.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Harvey's turned into a real snogglebug.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: Oh it's Tiana Insaladar Roseil replaces her when the Tower's
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: Reunited mentioned in Towers at Midnight. Oh, I'm glad you
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: only know because it's your favorite books? Is I have
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: so weak in these last three books? It's too I
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: literally have been trying to re listen to them over
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: the past couple of years, and every time I start,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: I just wander away and listen to something else. Like
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: I have had the hardest time studying these books for
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: podcast purposes, like outside of just notes for recordings.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: So let's see, I'm going to read the notes from
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: the Watt fandom. Okay, it is unclear why Agwaine decided
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: to change the mistress of Novices. The previous title holder
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: in the White Tower, Katerine, was black a job or
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: Preteressessor Sylviana became Agwayne's new keeper of the Chronicles. This
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: does not fully explain why Tiana did not resume the
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: post within the Tower that she did with the rebels.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: The reason is likely political. The change in roles represents
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: the fresh start Agwaine wats for the Tower, and also
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: fits with her decision to treat the rebel Isidi faction
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: as rebels by making them apologize for the part Rosil
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: may Or may not continue his mistress under the new
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: Ambulin cod.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: Swain Huh, okay, so I'm gonna go with plotthole.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: I mean they just leave it with Rosil.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: No, the Tiana to Rosil transition, like, yeah, that just
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: feels like a well, that's fine, Oh.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: Because Tiana was right they were well okay, wow, yeah,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: that's weird. It doesn't there's no reason why.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: I do know that the Romaine and some others were
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: talking about how Tiana was really young and not super
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: up to the task. So maybe she's just like, you know,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: quiet fired.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, offl on, you're spot on. Tiana was the
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: one in Saladar and Rosella replaced her in the Tower Reunited.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: She's mentioned in Tower of Midnights. No reason given.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I truly think they need more than one mistress
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: of Novices to deal with the massive escalation of novices.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: No one person can be in charge of hundreds to
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: that degree. There's not enough hours in the day, that's
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: not enough brain cells.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Well, then teaching methods are weird because it's like I
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: die and accepted when they can like because they don't
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: accept it, don't have to really teach, right, Yeah.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gotta be a whole new thing. You're going
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: to need a small army of competent women to make
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: sense of that. And yeah, I do think that Sharina
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: will need to be given some input space, no matter
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: what her rank is, because you need Sharena to organize this.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: I mean honestly, Sharena is probably going to test for
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: eyes to die, like day one of them getting the
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: arches fired back up, so they go out to do
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: the formal reunification and apology process. That's what That's where
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: I go next is just yeah, going going outside to
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: address the rebels who have now been lined up, and
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: she tells them. You know, I've now been raised properly
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: and legally by both sides, so we can come back together.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: The mistakes have been made on both sides. Okay, whatever,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: rolling my eyes at that statement.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: It's a necessary fiction.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a necessary fiction. It's really like the Tower
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: fucked up and these people had to rebel.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: In my opinion, yeah, yeah, no, there's and it's again
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: this thing that she says here that's just so relevant
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: to people that want to throw in the towel on
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: permanent division. I will not tend that our division did
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: not take place. We have the White Tower. Are sometimes
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: too eager to forget those facts. We don't want to
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: acknowledge it just yeah, maybe like yes, we have to
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: put it in the past, but not like forget about
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: how we got there. We do need to learn from that.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: And here's where she does uses the whole broken reforging
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: sword analogy that pissed you off because she doesn't need
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: because it's like she says it right here and then
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: doesn't get it with the rands and seals thing.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like paren has to explain it to her when
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: she already explained it to the entire Tower.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: We have been broken then torn nearly down to the roots.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: I mean to see that we are once again the
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: sword forge, with strength, whole and unbroken.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: So why is it so offensive to you when rand
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: suggests doing the same thing with metaphysics.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: Ah?
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: But yeah, then she gives them the real the real
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: rile up and gets them all cheering and excited, And
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: that goes right through the readout. These days will test you.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: I will force you to work with those you saw
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: as enemies just hours ago. You will march alongside those
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: who spurned you, or hurt you, or hated you. But
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: we are stronger than our weaknesses. The White Tower stands
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: and we shall stand with it. We will become one again.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: We will be in assembly that tales will tell of.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: When I am finished with you, it will not be
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: written that the White Tower was weak. Our divisions will
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: be forgotten in the face of our victories. We will
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: be remembered not as the White Tower who turned against itself,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: but as the White Tower who stood strong in the
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: face of the shadow. These days will be legendary. Cheers
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: burst out mostly from novices and soldiers, as the eyes
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: to die were too reserve for that sort of behavior. Generally,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: some younger ones did call out, caught up in the moment. Thankfully,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: those cheers came from both sides again, them roar for
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: a moment, then raised her arms, quieting them. Let it
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: go forth across the land, she shouted. Let it be
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: spoken of, let it be relied upon, and let it
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: be remembered. The White Tower is whole and complete, and
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: no one man, woman, or creation of the Shadow will
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: see us divided again. The cheers were nearly deafening this time,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: and surprisingly Mari Sadi joined in. Agwain lowered her hands.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: She hoped they would still cheer her in the months
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: to come. There was a great deal of work to
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: be done. She riles them up, while also admitting to
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: herself that, you know, it's a little more complicated than that,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: but this is a necessary moment.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: And that's where the title of this chapter comes from,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: to be forged again. She's forging that tower back together, right,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: and to those pieces that she.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Talks about, it's triumphant, masterful, peak, Agwain.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: And it is It's kind of the end of a
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: big plot line, right. This is the ever since the
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: tower split, ever since that night when Suon was taken,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: instilled and her order was killed and the Tower split
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: and everybody separated, and like, that has been such a
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: huge plot line for such a long time, and now
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: that is done, and it had to happen so that
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: Agwayne could reunite it and become Amberlin, right, because no
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: way she can become Amberlin without the split, Absolutely not.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: And so now we're back around to the point where
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: she has taken power and she can be the ying
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: the end to brand z Yang and be in charge
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: of the White Tower as a Two Rivers person who
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: will support him. How that's implemented, we can debate that,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: but like I really do think that's the whole point, right,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: is like you have the Two Rivers folks becoming the
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: powers upon which the world balances. You know, you have Matt,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: who's kind of in a lot of ways not in
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: charge of but at least has access to the shan
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: Chan power base. You have Rand with his armies and countries.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: You have Agwayne, who rules over the White Tower Ninive,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: who has access to all the Borderland armies.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: And parents grab bag army.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: And parents grab bag of all the other armies. He's like,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, what else, Come on, everyone else, get in
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: the bag.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: Come on, Yeah, he's the others. Yeah, check boxes. And
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: then there's just other that's parents army.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: Because like he really does reunite, like Matt might be
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: the general, but Paren is the one who brings them
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: all together. And again I would like to see more
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: of that sort of bringing together the various armies beneath Paren.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: I think him sort of in a Gwayne's role would
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: have been pretty cool or sorry Elaine's role, like more
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: of like the leader at that point and sort of
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: doing the moving of them around. And but I and
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: and then I think you could have made an ischuse
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: for it of like, oh, this is a friend of mine,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: he doesn't have any loyalty, he's not part of any
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: any nation, right, Well you follow him, and then you
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: have all the various people's he's picked up that can
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: vouch for him, and be like I would fall and
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: be like, well, if that guy'll follow them, I'll follow him, right,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: And so you have all these armies, well just.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: Like with a gwayin right, collecting all the different Odgile loyalties,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: and then both camps and then everyone's like, oh, I
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: guess we all agree on that person, even though we
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: hate each.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: Other, and you know, someone could challenge parent. He can
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: do the thing where he teleports behind them and says
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: I'm behind you now, cuts the throat and says, anyone
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: else want to challenge me? You know, one of those things.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: But yeah, this was a triumphant, ringing end too.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely it Win's.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: Entire climb to power and the tower division. I what
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: a moment of triumph.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: For Swan, you know, right right.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: She got her warder killed and got yeded out of
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: the tower and she came back with a gwain.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: You know, there's that moment when Agwaene has that thought
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: where she's like, oh, and if I forget what the
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: if was, but she's like, oh, if I hadn't returned,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: basically Ali, it would still be in charged. I was like, no,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: she wouldn't have. Alida still would have gotten nabbed like
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: somebody else would have been in charge. But like, it
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: is kind of funny that Agwayne's return had almost nothing
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: to do with Alida losing power. She was just in
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: the right place at the right time to take that
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: power once Alida had had been asconded with.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I do think Alida was not long
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: for the seat regardless of what happened to her attack.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no one wants her back for sure.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like Agwaine's spade work on that front. Like, I
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: think Alida was gonna get cooed at some point in
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: the next few days if Agwayne, you know, didn't just
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: forcibly take the tower.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: It just it undermines any opposition that she would have
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: had because it's like, well, who are you gonna spport
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: like and it's like there's a group that supports Agwayne
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: in a group that doesn't support anybody because the light
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: is gone, right.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes it easy, which is fine because we've
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: spent the better part of this series having it be hard.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: So you know, a little bit of sliding in to
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: home base at the end for Flair is it's fine,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: We'll allow it.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: And that's what we're doing. We're wrapping everything this book
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: and then especially next book is like, let's get our
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: ducks in a row, because the last book is a
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: full on battle. So this is the this is the
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: first big duck that is in a row and ready
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: and pointed at the last battle.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure, we've got a duck. Now let's
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: get the other ducks. Leaned up behind it and then
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: it will be a row.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: Then they can turn into cats and you know low
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: par or whatever the Sean jan Us. Yeah, sure, sure, yeah,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: Well the next yeah, and the next couple of chapters
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: are going to be ranmed and then veins of leading
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: up into veins of gold. Like we are yeah, I
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: mean this is we have I think two more episodes
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: and then the epilogue planned. So buckle up, Buttercup, like,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: we are absolutely going into the end of this book.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: And we are I mean this chapter obviously, all that
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: great speech by A. GWayne and the reunification of the
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: chapter like awesome conclusion to an awesome plot line. We
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: are in the sander Lanche for sure.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: It's amazing. It's amazing.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: So it's it's funny because this book, it is if
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: Jordan had this slog, Sanderson has this sander Lanch. But
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: that does mean the beginning of his books can be
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: kind of slow and lack some details. Like I think
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: he gets better at adding more details in his later
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: books and maybe spreading out his conclusions, but man, sometimes
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: the first half of his books, you're like, could could
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: I get could I get a resolution to any of
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: these plot lines please.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, this is it's a rough book for him,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: the very first Robert Jordan Brandon Sanderson combo book. It's yeah,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: that first half was rough, but boy, this sander Lanche
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: wants it kicks in. Man, does it tickle good?
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah? No, it's it's really good, right, Like, and it's
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: why his other books, you know, I know you haven't
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: done a lot of reading of his other stuff, but
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: like and why it's often hard to get you know,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: people into it because like you have to get past
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: some of the beginning stuff, but it is worth it
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: for the sandalanches, right, That's really why I read it. Now,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: could he spread those out a little bit more? Maybe,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: you know, would his books be a little bit of
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: an easier read if like there was you know, there
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: wasn't such a hard, unified conclusion at the end of
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: every single book, And maybe he could spread those out
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: so some of them fell in the beginning of certain books.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that would be nice. I think
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: that'd be nice. But then I think he likes having
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: big conclusions at the end of his books because each
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: book becomes its own blockbuster, right, And it's very movie
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: centric or TV show centric.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: It has a formula that works and has no interest
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: in deviating from it.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, so I get why he does it. Yeah,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: I think, especially here in these series, he tortures the
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: timeline a little bit to get it done.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: Remember else. So he's a much more seasoned writer now
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: than he was when he was doing true True. I
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: mean he was such a less seasoned writer when he
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: got taps to do this. This was such a growth
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: experience for him.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: All right, Well that was that was fun. Is there
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: anything else we need to talk about before the world ends?
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: Mm? Yeah, I got nothing else.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just uh hope calmer heads prevail out there.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I I could do with an Agwayne showing up
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: to heard these fucking cats right about now. I could
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: use like maybe one Agwain per continent of people who
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: think that they're supposed to be in charge. Just I
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: need I need more away in my global leader monitors Like,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: oh my god, anyway, let's do recording off.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: Thanks everybody for listening, really appreciate it. Thanks for sticking
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: in for almost another book and uh yeah two left
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: to go. Very excited about it.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: We have a lot of pages to covered today. Yeah,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: each each.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: Chapter isn't necessarily a lot of pages, but they're both
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: medium sized chapters, which leads to one pretty epic number
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: of pages.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: But it's another one of those things where the scenes
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: blend so well together that it seems strange to not.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: Right, to break it, to do the whole thing. Yeah,
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: I do have a joke. I keep meaning to tell
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: do it all right? So Borderlander, a sean Chan, and
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: then Aiel walk into a blood bank at the same
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: time to give blood. The Borderlander sits down and claims,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: I will give the most blood because I am the
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: biggest of us and my blood is type A, which
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: will help many patients. The shawan Chan sits down and
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: claims my blood is a direct descendant of a Tappen
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: drag and just type B. And finally, Fayel sits down
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: and says, I think I'm a typo.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: I hate it so much. It's so good, it's bad.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: It's good again. Thank you Athlon, thank you for the validation.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: So I was hoping I get away before anyone heard that, she.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: Says, after turning. Okay, you know we still get like
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: a thousand downloads of any given episode, right.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: Oh fuck right, I forgot people still listen to this thing.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: Could you people stop that please? It's really embarrassing for.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: Saving me, says the media appearance person radio.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: I am in my closet where nobody can hear me.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: The doors are shut, the house is empty. This doesn't
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: go anywhere in my brain besides into the computer and
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: to you, and like that's that's it. Like that's why
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: I let you edit out all the parts that need
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: to get edited out, because sometimes I forget that it
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: goes out there.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, podcasting is a weird experience.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: It is. It is.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: I'm glad we have a live audience component to the
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: process so that we do at least remember there is
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: a third party, even if they are very small audience.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: It does that helps. And then also meeting people at
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: cons is really helpful to remember that, Like it very
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: much humanizes it that like, oh, yes, people, I'm not
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: just shouting into a text you know, text fields that
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: come back to me. It's it's amazing, Like, I know
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: the internet is people, right, Like it's it's not that
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: hard to remember. But man, meeting those at least a
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: couple of those people really does help put faces to
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: the names and the messages and the effort and the
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: fandom and like it's like, oh, I you know it. Actually,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: if you put a theater of a thousand people together,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: that's a lot of people.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's because we're really good at reaching for
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: social connection as social animals. But we've had the Internet
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: for like no time at all, Right, right, our brains
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: like we can intellectually bridge that gap, but like the
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: architecture of our brains is not are the architecture of
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: our brains expects a person to be in front of
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: you or to not exist, right, Like the Internet is
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: a very new edition. And then yeah, I remember last
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: year at walk Gun hanging out with someone writing with
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: someone in the car and they're interacting with me like
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: we totally know each other, Like there's just this sense
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: of familiarity, and I'm just like, who are you? It's Holger,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: who'd been in chat a whole bunch in live recordings,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: like a whole bunch. But like, how there's not a
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: little orange text floating next to your head?
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: How I'm I supposed to know? Right? Yeah, don't think
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: you know my voice?
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know your voice. And it was just such
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: a wild experience of like this person is very comfortable
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: with me and as soon as I know who they are,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: it just switches this thing. It's like, again, the human
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: brain has not evolved to have this happen. We are
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: only intellectually bridging the gap. Like physiologically we are so confused.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I will say, I've had the very very weird
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: experience right where you meet somebody and they are a stranger. Right,
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: you meet them and you shake their hand, they're stranger,
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: and then they say, oh, hi, I'm screen name, and
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden they go from stranger to friend.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: And the way that my brain just like that, the
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: way my brain totally changes the way it perceives their
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: face because there is context to go around it. And
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: it's I would never have been able to describe it
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: before the Internet, because like, you meet people and you
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: get to know them, and you know what they look like,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: and you know their mannerisms, you know their voices, and
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: like that all comes together. But yeah, when you get
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: to know people over the Internet and you never get
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: any of that context and then you meet them, it
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: is it's like a little puzzle piece falling into place,
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: and then you feel weird. Because I remember the first
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: time I met the White Tower girls, right, like literally
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: is me and Patrick sitting at a bar and they
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: come up to us and they start talking to us,
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: like because they know who we are because we put
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: we have our images out there and they hadn't put
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: their images out there, so they recognized us. So they
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: recognized us, and they started talking to us because we've
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: been We were on a panel together, and there was
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: this moment where they're like, oh, we're from the White
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: Tower podcast and then oh, yeah, okay, all of a
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: suddeness and Jen became JUSTS and Jen, not these two
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: random girls who started talking to me at the bar, right, I.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: Mean, even even to some extent the flatness of Zoom. Yeah,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: does that I met someone recently in person for the
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: first time after having talked with them for several hours
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: on Zoom, And like, we were at a larger event,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: and so I see this person and she waves at me,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, she looks really familiar, but I cannot
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: place it. And then eventually I connected her face with
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: the flat two dimensional version I remembered from Zoom, and
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: it was just it was that same kind of switch
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: from stranger to friend, except that there was this weird
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: It was just Zoom. It was just the two dimensionality
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: of Zoom, Like I literally knew her face, but not
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: in three D. I mean, every time I see you
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: in person, I'm always like, wow, you're so different, like
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: because you're small and down here right right right right, wait,
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: I'm looking down at you and you're little, And then
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: I see you in person and I'm looking up at
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: you and you're like a normal size person. You know,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: it's very different. It like takes a bit of a
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: reframe to be like, oh, that's actually what he looks like,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: this is actually not the real you.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: My favorite is one meeting Brian and uh Neigbleiss from
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: tarl And after Dark in person and having seen them
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: on Zoom and thinking they were about the same size
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: person when Brian is is about your size.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: Right, like right, yeah, it's a waif. Yeah well yeah,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: not a waif. But he's more slender than I am.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, And Nabeless is a mountain of a man, right
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: he is, he's large, Yes, he's large.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: He is a brickshit. Yes, I think the category is and.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: I just, I mean, I just I was like, oh,
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: I had no I idea from Zoom, like you just
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: cannot cannot tell.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's The thing too, is everyone on the internet
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: is the same height and has the same accent, right,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: they're all you all speaking my accent because you know,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: unless I've heard you in person, and once I've talked
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: to you in person and had conversations with you in person,
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: then your text voice sounds like your voice, right, But
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: until then you sound like me. And then yeah, meeting
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: people in person being like wow, turns out the part
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: where we're a global community means we don't all sound
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: the same. Oh and then Athlon made a very cool
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: comment and chat about the experience as a blind person. Yeah,
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: all through voice and then audio technology. Yeah, yeah, the
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: signal chain that a sound passes through, it's like the
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: zoom flattening effect from three D to two D. If
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: you listen to someone through layers of compression and packetization
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: as it moves through an internet connection or technology connection,
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: then that's a similar kind of discontinuity from the real thing.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: And one thing I've really tried to do in the
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: tech stream from the beginning is I try and reduce
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: the number of different black boxes the audio has to
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: go through to get to you. Now, for the live stream,
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: it goes through actually a lot more black boxes because
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: I have a bunch of different things in the length
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: to make it happen live. And so that's like you
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: get zoom compression and you get audio dropouts, and like
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: the live streaming is hard, right, Like it's just it's hard. Yeah,
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: But we're recording independently at our own microphones, so we
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: get high quality audio recorded and compressed. We do high
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: quality MP three I don't do, you know, lossless just
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: because we're not doing music here. My voice isn't that
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: big of a range.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no for sure, so you know, and then.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: You do high high quality MP three's, and then you
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: edit once and export that and to a high quality compression.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: And the idea is like at no point are you
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: losing interesting information, and that gives the best chance of
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: you hearing the high quality output. Whereas I think a
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: lot of other podcasts they use these tools right that
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: exists on the internet, and their audio is getting compressed
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: in the computer, compressed, sent it's getting compressed when it's
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: being sent to the third party. It's getting compressed when
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: it's stored, it's getting compressed when it's sent back to them,
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: it's getting compressed when it's edited. I'm just it's like
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: it's not you don't lose a lot of quality every time,
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: but every time you lose just a little bit more.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I am in the process of starting another podcast,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: and I am the podcast guru for those co hosts.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: They know nothing about podcasting, so of course I have
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: them all doing local recordings, and you know, I'm just
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: patiently walking them through. Yes, we're going to all need
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: to download Audacity and here's how to use it and
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: so on and so forth. And yeah, sometimes their Zoom
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: connections are shit, and it's I'm just so happy knowing
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: that that stuttering, it goes too slow and then it
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: goes too fast. Thing that Zoom does, like that's only
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: for us in live. It's not gonna be there for
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: the audience for all time. It makes me feel good because, yeah.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: There's just different demands on computers when you're doing things
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: in real time versus when you have as much time
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: as the processing takes.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if we were doing like audio books like
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: super Professional, we would be doing lossless because it would
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: matter for that context. It's just that we're more of
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: a band and a barality, so like there's a certain
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: floor on how into the weeds we have to get.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: I do. Got to say, though, with these new microphones,
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: I would feel much more comfortable attempting an audio book
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: than I did with the blue yetties, because the blue
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: yetties are good for what we're doing, but these are
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: much more the shores are much more professional quality.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: Wow, you did all right on that? Is there anything else?
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, I have a new car. I don't know if
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: I've told you about that?
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, update us on that.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't know. Did I tell you about
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: the accident during the last recording.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, it was in the after show of the last recording.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: So basically I went to the car dealership and said, hey,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: I'm getting this payment for my car because they're just
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: going to pay it buy it from me. The state
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: farm is going to buy it from me. And I
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: basically found a car that was the exact same car
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: that I wrecked. It's I ended up autism, Like, I
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: don't want to have to learn a new car, you know,
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: I don't have to try and do a car payment.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: It's three years newer, but it literally had the almost
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: the exact same mileage. It had less than a thousand
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: miles difference on it between the mileage between the two.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have the leather. There's a cup missing a cup.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: It's a slightly lower trend package, right, so, but it's newer,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: so it's got a few upgraded things, right. So it
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: doesn't have other seats, it doesn't have heated seats. It
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: doesn't have a sun roof, which I was all lucky
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: to have. But all of those were like I don't
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: really care about you know, it's like whatever, Like they're
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: they're nice, but I do not care.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: It's a flight bummer to have them taken away. Once
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: you get used to them.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: Exactly, you'll live, right, And so yeah, I just and
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: what the dealership was actually very nice. They let me
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: pay the difference between because State Farm hasn't sent me
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: the check yet, but I had the letter saying they
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: were gonna send me a check, and so he let
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: me pay the difference and promise to give him the
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: check and pay pay pay them out within like ten days.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: And he let me take the car with just paying,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: you know, which was like a thousand bucks between what
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: I was gonna So I I got out of there,
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: and what's funny is I just got a bonus from work,
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: which almost exactly match that.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 4: So wow, was like, so sorry, so sorry, so sorry.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here's here's the you can just get the new
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: car for this amount. Do you know some people are
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: gonna be like, well, you should you should have taken
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: you should have taken advantage of that to try and
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: get a nicer car, a better situation. I'm just like, no,
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: I was fine with my car. I was gonna drive
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: out Honda for another twenty years and I still will.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: You just want to control Z on the car accident,
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: and you did. You just literally got a control Z
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: right on that situation. That's nice. That's great. Less change,
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: less change.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: Good. Never tried to talk me into a minivan, and
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: I was like, next car. Even if we have kids
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: within the next year or two, it's going to be
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: another like five years before we're hauling around sports equipment.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: So like, if any van is premature at this point,
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: but you know, I like, the Honda Odyssey would totally
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: be my next car. I think I think most people
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: who have trucks should actually get a minivan. You can
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: haul way more shit and it's inside.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: But it's so much less macho exactly.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah, come at me, bro.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, Brandon is in the process of trying desperately
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: to get us a pickup truck because we actually need
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: one living like we have to take our garbage to
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: the dump. We need dirt and gravel, Like these are
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: not indoor cards, right.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: Right, I said most people in the city, Like I
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: should say, who I see who are in the city.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's so, it's so real. Yeah, a lot
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: of people don't need pickup trucks. But yeah, why don't
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: you help people sell us your damn pickup truck.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: They're hard to get hold of, man, they are They're expensive. Yeah,
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: really no, it's it's what did I hear recently? Rich
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: people don't drive Lexuses and Mercedes. Rich people drive pick
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: drive pickup trucks.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to The Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:32:50
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• 1:32:53
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• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Draven Meat. For
• 1:33:00
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• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: Foxendravenmedia dot com.