Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of The Impossible Planet (1/2)

Transcript

Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of The Impossible Planet (1/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:41
  Welcome back to a hamster with the blunt.
• 0:43
  Penknife the Doctor Who commentary podcast.
• 0:45
  That is stood right behind you, don't turn around the Beast is
• 0:50
  who always risen. He is awake and you will worship
• 0:54
  him. He is here.
• 0:54
  Now it is Joe fought say hello. Joe is that you mucking about
• 1:00
  Fraser? Stop talking about, don't turn
• 1:03
  around, do not look at me. If you look at me, you will die.
• 1:06
  The Beast is also here in the form of Simon, huh?
• 1:09
  Artsy. Hello.
• 1:10
  Simon. Hello.
• 1:15
  I'm very scared. He is risen.
• 1:18
  And he will bathe in your blood. Oh my God.
• 1:21
  So, you sound like a little girl?
• 1:24
  Ha, ha ha. The trouble is we have to look
• 1:28
  around because you're so pretty. We like, looking at you?
• 1:32
  Turn around. Well, good evening, everybody,
• 1:38
  and welcome to this evening's all this morning's or whenever
• 1:41
  you're listening commentary on hamster with a blunt penknife.
• 1:45
  I apologize in advance for that rude introduction that
• 1:49
  everyone's had. But it should be a bit of a
• 1:52
  giveaway for the episode that we are discussing the night, which
• 1:55
  is The Impossible Planet. So Jewel.
• 2:01
  Why are we discussing the Impossible Planet?
• 2:02
  Cause this was your choice because I fucking love it.
• 2:07
  That's why. Because I think season series 2
• 2:10
  is much underrated. And I think this is possibly the
• 2:16
  best story in that season, and it's one of those very, very
• 2:20
  Fact, I recently the case of androzani and I said in that,
• 2:24
  that is very rare, that all the elements or the Doctor Who Story
• 2:28
  come together, script performance music Direction.
• 2:33
  Every single part of it works in.
• 2:36
  This is a good example of Doctor Who at the very top of his game.
• 2:40
  That's why I wanted to do this good good enough reason side.
• 2:45
  Would you want your center? It's a confidence to this that I
• 2:50
  am. Had taken me by surprise when I
• 2:52
  re watch this, it's one I always forget about which is not a bad
• 2:58
  thing because it's always overshadowed by all Sarah,
• 3:02
  Jane's coming back, all the Cybermen or the Cybermen and the
• 3:06
  Daleks all roses leaving. Oh everyone hates love and
• 3:09
  monsters apart from P made with taste.
• 3:13
  I love as I've said a people with taste, so sort of the saw
• 3:18
  that that kind of thing and I'm just being Do you know what
• 3:21
  actually? This is really, really bloody
• 3:24
  good. And it stands up so well and it
• 3:29
  stands up so much better than I remember it.
• 3:34
  Every time I watch it, it takes me by surprise how brilliant it
• 3:38
  is. Yeah, I think I would agree with
• 3:41
  that as well. I think what, what we can't all
• 3:46
  be in the green but something went wrong. it's the season
• 3:58
  series to it means that it's really really good but because
• 4:03
  there's other stories in the season just like said there's
• 4:06
  other things in this series that people talk about morsel gets
• 4:11
  neglected I mean if I'm Buster's of death was in season 8 it
• 4:16
  would be much more heralded as the absolutely Masterpiece that
• 4:22
  it is but because it's you know comes Before Inferno and it
• 4:26
  comes after say ruins and spearhead.
• 4:28
  It just gets it gets lost in that crowd in with this, you
• 4:32
  know, Impossible Planet, and Satan pit.
• 4:34
  You know, coming in the series with no tooth and Claw School
• 4:40
  reunions and the Cybermen the side of man versus the Daleks
• 4:44
  and all the rest of it. It's so easy to focus on those.
• 4:47
  I would say in this series, the best episode is girl in the
• 4:52
  fireplace. That's another really strong
• 4:55
  Contender. Yeah, and I mean, that is one of
• 4:57
  my all-time top five favorite / best one of the new series of
• 5:04
  all of everything. Wow, yeah.
• 5:07
  I think I put number five when I last did did that was you know,
• 5:11
  that's how highly I wait girl in the fireplace.
• 5:13
  It's one of the best so yeah, it's really easy for Stories in
• 5:21
  this series just to get lost in amongst the greatness that there
• 5:24
  is. Well, I mean, there's a reason
• 5:26
  why fear gets lost and, you know, perhaps the idiots Lantern
• 5:31
  and things like that, you know, they are, oh no, I saw theater
• 5:35
  out. I was at a wedding the day, fear
• 5:38
  her was on and I took all the kids to babysit up in one of the
• 5:44
  hotel rooms. So watch Fear her, and they all
• 5:47
  absolutely loved it. Did it, and they loved it in a
• 5:51
  way that Doctor Who fans didn't love it because they were kids,
• 5:55
  and they really got it. And so, I've always had a really
• 5:58
  warm feeling to towards fear her, but not many people other
• 6:02
  people have because watching it with a group of sort of 5 to 13
• 6:09
  year olds was a completely different experience to watching
• 6:12
  it on my own as an adult. I've got a shock for you though.
• 6:16
  So I now all of those children have.
• 6:18
  In fact, gone. And to be ax murderers after
• 6:20
  watching, good night with me because they they loved Rose,
• 6:28
  chopping away at that door with the axe.
• 6:31
  Honestly, what an irresponsible babysitter, Sweden.
• 6:36
  Open the Wardrobe. So, coming back to the episode
• 6:43
  that we are talking about tonight, I am, when obviously,
• 6:47
  you just have both watched it in preparation for this evening's
• 6:50
  recording. As of I when was, when was the
• 6:52
  last time you watched it before? Then a while ago, for me my
• 6:56
  while ago, in fact, bar, I haven't really watched much
• 6:59
  Rossi Davis staff for a little while.
• 7:02
  I've been so focusing, a lot of Mafia, chibnall so.
• 7:06
  But yeah, I've got to be honest. It's one that slips through the
• 7:08
  cracks when I go back to watch like a season and just choose
• 7:11
  one. Episode.
• 7:13
  It isn't one and I wonder why that is because it is bloody
• 7:16
  good. I think for me it's because it's
• 7:19
  a two-parter, you know? If I say yeah you know if I'm
• 7:23
  going to sit and just watch the other episodes if I you know
• 7:26
  think I want to watch it attendant.
• 7:27
  I want to watch your Smith. I want to watch her to call you
• 7:29
  whatever. I won't necessarily be drawn to
• 7:32
  the two partners because you then have to watch the second
• 7:35
  part where you know it's it's nothing actually wrong with this
• 7:40
  episode is just that you have to watch both of them to get the
• 7:42
  full The Full Experience because you know, I look I like this.
• 7:48
  I like Impossible Planet. I think this is a really good
• 7:50
  stuff in it, but there's some stuff that I don't quite enjoy,
• 7:54
  but that miraculously melts Away by the Satan pit me.
• 8:02
  You know, it's one where you have to, you can't just watch
• 8:05
  one and leave it at that. You've got to watch both of them
• 8:06
  together. You'll talk about Rose.
• 8:08
  Tyler. I'm you Yes.
• 8:14
  Is it because Rose and the doctor are split up?
• 8:17
  Well, I was trying to keep that as a search as the Cliffhanger.
• 8:23
  She's incredibly proactive in a lot of can just skip this We
• 8:41
  mean, impressions of Billie Piper at the end of our last
• 8:43
  commentary. This is turn off now and just go
• 8:46
  and watch the dominant as I something in.
• 8:48
  Yeah, it's lovely dominoes. Yeah, yeah.
• 8:57
  Well, well, well, well, so should we mixed on this and
• 9:03
  start watching episode and discuss net charge?
• 9:06
  I'd love to go and then, okay. It was going to be a countess in
• 9:12
  Will you do? Is I me.
• 9:14
  Okay. Oh, five, four, three, two, one.
• 9:21
  Let's go. Youmans, I'm gonna give you a
• 9:27
  hug. Well, the Tardis doesn't sound
• 9:32
  well no, and is impressive. High angle shot there?
• 9:36
  Yeah. I'll go on.
• 9:38
  I know you guys are gonna have a go about the pair of them
• 9:40
  laughing here. Go on.
• 9:42
  Oh, fuck's sake. Shut up.
• 9:46
  You two honestly. Oh,
• 10:06
  This is why I watch this because I'm betting.
• 10:10
  You've watched other stories from season two teams to sorry.
• 10:14
  Before this Yeah. Usually, I mean sorta to I'll me
• 10:18
  go to watch them more recently than you have this one.
• 10:21
  So I watch this one because I knew we were going to do it.
• 10:24
  Hmm. Aw, he watched a few sort of
• 10:27
  episodes of seems to because I was doing a little bit of a
• 10:29
  re-watch and then. Yeah.
• 10:32
  I went back and watched girl in the fireplace again and
• 10:35
  suddenly, it's clicked. Because if you watch this in
• 10:39
  isolation if you just come and watch this then that is an
• 10:41
  absolutely appalling. These sickening and Claw and saw
• 10:45
  smoke. And what we seen, if you watch
• 10:49
  it in the context of going from school reunions in the girl in
• 10:54
  the fireplace into and the Cyberman to partner in idiots
• 10:58
  Lantern and then into this, you can see the progression.
• 11:01
  Session a lot better. Okay, it's not just the doctor
• 11:06
  and Rose being so bloody Annoying.
• 11:09
  It's outrageous. The isolation.
• 11:10
  Is that what you get on its own? It doesn't work but actually in
• 11:15
  the course of the series it does.
• 11:16
  Hello. And here we are with one of the
• 11:19
  greatest inventions of the new series and one of the one of the
• 11:25
  best-loved monsters. They do you know what?
• 11:29
  Apart from the Angels. They're probably the most
• 11:30
  prolific Lee used. Aren't they viewed?
• 11:33
  Yeah. It's the yeah.
• 11:35
  These and the big Freer, the the Angels, the judoon and the huge,
• 11:40
  aren't they? So all from Rusty, Davis's time
• 11:44
  ahem-hem, sorry. Always forget how fast these
• 11:50
  titles are. I still didn't move really
• 11:53
  quickly? I looking at Come on just for a
• 11:59
  second, right? Because I want to offer an
• 12:00
  opposing opinion. I knew we'd get a pretty quickly
• 12:04
  but it's not mine. It's Steven burzynski's who from
• 12:08
  new to who and Series 2 of the new series is his favorite
• 12:13
  season because of the de temps dr.
• 12:16
  Andros and the story that's told and absolutely, yeah.
• 12:20
  If you look at any pole outside of Doctor Who fandom the
• 12:25
  beautifully, Toxic area that that is, this is the doctor and
• 12:29
  companion that everybody Champions outside of do.
• 12:33
  So there is absolutely an enormous audience for this pair.
• 12:37
  It may not be to fandom or your taste, but there is absolutely a
• 12:41
  lot of love for 10 and Rose. Absolutely, I remember at the
• 12:45
  time of broadcast, Been absolutely swept along and
• 12:51
  taught enjoying the romance being as devastated as anyone
• 12:54
  else come doomsday, when they were separated, when I
• 12:59
  re-watched everything up to date so far before the 11th Hour
• 13:04
  again, totally Swept Away swept Along by that point.
• 13:08
  So, at the time, absolutely. I would, I would kind of agree
• 13:12
  and say, this is a fantastic pair.
• 13:14
  And I think what's happened since then is probably what hard
• 13:18
  Better examples of a doctor companion relationship.
• 13:22
  I think it's not rules that I object to in this, it's the rose
• 13:30
  and dr. Dynamic going on, I think, you
• 13:34
  know, the elements of rows that people find problematic and it's
• 13:37
  usually in the second series. It's sort of her jealousy and
• 13:42
  kind of cattiness and all those sort of unpleasant, elements to
• 13:46
  her character, I just think they Make us so real.
• 13:49
  That's like you and me in the Tardis like somebody who is
• 13:53
  yeah, up the adventure on blah blah, but we're also jealous for
• 13:56
  all so that, you know, that is a real person and I do like the
• 13:59
  rusty Davis. Will plant somebody slightly
• 14:03
  unlikable at the heart of this series.
• 14:05
  And he certainly isn't in a long game with this pair because he
• 14:08
  has them being smug as artists throughout the season.
• 14:11
  And at the end of it is like, well, here's your punishment,
• 14:13
  were going to tear you apart. We're gonna put a bloody
• 14:15
  Universe between the two of you. Yeah.
• 14:18
  Yeah, I definitely think that is what's happening here that this
• 14:21
  is RTD, you know, Lynn on with the trouble.
• 14:26
  You know, the smugness, the the Cavalier, attitude towards
• 14:31
  what's going on. That's what I don't like about
• 14:34
  rules in. This is the fact that, you know,
• 14:36
  she is No sense of danger whatsoever whatsoever.
• 14:42
  There's all this stuff going on and show you is just cracking
• 14:45
  jokes and second episodes. Cheers fish shit in it.
• 14:50
  A bit in this. Yeah, I think so has my absolute
• 14:54
  moments and those are the things that I'd forgotten sort of
• 14:57
  watching. This this time around though,
• 15:00
  there are moments where she you can see it's bravado and she's
• 15:05
  deeply scared. With it.
• 15:08
  She's doing the Elisabeth, sladen thing of saying one
• 15:12
  thing. But you can feel the she's
• 15:14
  feeling something else entirely and I've been really is bloody
• 15:18
  brilliant actually. Is it, is there in this?
• 15:21
  Where she's on the phone? And it's the it's from the
• 15:25
  Beast, isn't it? And it's just slammed the phone,
• 15:28
  she froze. The phone doesn't show ya.
• 15:32
  It's like, yeah, everyone is feeling the Primal Fear of the
• 15:37
  devil and it's really, really unsettling for everyone.
• 15:42
  It's like a omnipresent Fair, isn't it?
• 15:44
  It's just always there and I think there's a suspense to this
• 15:47
  because you can feel that kind of evil around them all the
• 15:50
  time. And then, you know, it's yeah,
• 15:52
  it's an ultimate bands based on decision because I can't.
• 15:54
  Bloody go anywhere. And it's a really good base as
• 15:57
  well. I such a good design, isn't
• 16:00
  there? And he's dirty.
• 16:01
  That's what I liked about. It.
• 16:02
  It feels lived-in. Yeah, it feels like they've been
• 16:05
  there a long time. I love that they put all the
• 16:09
  writing on the walls of the base and things like that because
• 16:12
  it's just in front of them. Do you see the table in the room
• 16:16
  where they eat? It's all covered in state he
• 16:19
  stains and things? Yeah, that's nice touch, you
• 16:21
  know? Yeah that's the attention to
• 16:23
  detail. We're getting In Doctor Who at
• 16:27
  this point it's really good. It all feels real despite being
• 16:31
  in space, which is a very Russell T.
• 16:33
  Davies thing, isn't it? But he wanted it to be about
• 16:37
  pioneers and always the human race out in space.
• 16:41
  That you've got something to cling onto.
• 16:43
  And you can see this, this is this is someone's work space and
• 16:47
  their living space, all together.
• 16:49
  And it's got all that muck and filth and doesn't the black hole
• 16:54
  look great. I'm sorry.
• 16:56
  Distracted by that, with that opening, the roof shot and
• 17:00
  seeing it above you, it's just beautifully done, they've done.
• 17:03
  That deliberately have a nice. So he can say, I'm standing
• 17:06
  underneath a black hole, which is just Vivid line just
• 17:10
  impossible. It is not well actually it's not
• 17:14
  because I'm Jason. Jason Thompson are one of our
• 17:19
  friends here was known for many, many years as The Impossible
• 17:23
  Planet guy from the planets core of forum, which We were all on
• 17:27
  because he went to Great pains, to explain how none of this was
• 17:31
  actually impossible. And was actually perfectly
• 17:34
  reasonable, and could actually happen, but that's Jason.
• 17:37
  If you're there, I'll cook it in a very excited title.
• 17:42
  Wouldn't know but not Impossible Planet.
• 17:45
  Perfectly reasonable Planet. Yeah, in sort of the
• 17:50
  time-honored tradition of these things.
• 17:52
  Now, I did reach out to Jason on Twitter.
• 17:56
  To get, you know, an opinion on this saw and he's explain
• 18:01
  himself perfectly. Well, he says, you know, well I
• 18:03
  was known as The Impossible Planet guy for a while.
• 18:05
  Primarily primarily due to my strong views on the general lack
• 18:09
  of impossibility of the titular Impossible Planet as presently.
• 18:14
  I think he's written that known find wild.
• 18:15
  After reading out, there was nothing inherently Impossible
• 18:20
  about the planet in orbit of a black hole.
• 18:27
  As I said before, I don't expect scientific accuracy all over the
• 18:30
  place in. There were many Fantastical
• 18:31
  Concepts that can simply be accepted narratively.
• 18:35
  When the rate has put actual signs Concept in as a major pop
• 18:37
  planes and ask them up, that's when I get hooked.
• 18:42
  Black holes are real and an awful lot of the evidence we
• 18:44
  have for their existence is based on the behavior of things
• 18:47
  that are indeed orbit in them, single line, could have avoided
• 18:50
  it. It could have been stated the
• 18:52
  way the planet was orb in the black hole was impossible.
• 18:55
  So I don't think their priorities are to make this
• 18:59
  scientifically accurate, though. I think their priorities are to
• 19:01
  make this and a compelling piece of television and I'd suggest
• 19:06
  that they succeeded with the creative choices that they made.
• 19:10
  I mean, you know, I've got a science degree and I've probably
• 19:14
  forgotten more about what I learned at University and I've
• 19:17
  never learned. But the thing that strikes me is
• 19:21
  inaccurate about this is the fact that they've just, you
• 19:24
  know, it was the said, That's a that's a total wind howling
• 19:26
  outside. What'swhat's that storm and
• 19:29
  they've said well, how can you have a storm when there's no
• 19:31
  atmosphere? If there's no atmosphere, you
• 19:34
  can't have a sound. No no.
• 19:36
  But it makes for a fantastic visual later on when he's
• 19:38
  standing out there on the Wind smiling in the wind.
• 19:42
  So who gets wigs say about that? When we get there, the planet
• 19:49
  with no atmosphere, you can't stand in wind in the atmosphere,
• 19:52
  there is no wind Window fallacy. I mean, technically, pick apart
• 19:57
  most science fiction, Doctor, Who stories in this way and say,
• 20:01
  well, there are inaccuracies and where's the fun in that, you
• 20:05
  know, think it depends if it takes you out of it though.
• 20:08
  Because I mean, my my biggest bugbears is logopolis with the
• 20:12
  entropy because that's not how entropy works and repeat is not
• 20:16
  watching it getting eaten away on the Tardis kind of screen
• 20:20
  doesn't work like that. That's not what, it's not.
• 20:25
  It's a god amongst us if you called it the flux then it's not
• 20:30
  an issue because he's obviously I love how it was but I think
• 20:47
  Murray gold gets a lot of criticism for his bombastic
• 20:50
  music but that violin music. He plays over the Whatever it is
• 20:56
  is I've been thinking I think this is actually a really
• 21:00
  haunting score in the way. It's quite different to what he
• 21:04
  normally does. There's still all the action
• 21:07
  adventure, y, my bottom bits that are going on but there's
• 21:11
  also lots of really creepy B where he's actually accentuating
• 21:16
  the mood and the atmosphere and adding to it which is is really
• 21:21
  good. It doesn't he sometimes his
• 21:23
  music Works against the atmosphere of the story, but
• 21:27
  here remember, the end everyone is on board.
• 21:31
  The end of the age of Steel and there's just so much music and
• 21:34
  it's loud and Holly the dialogue of the times because it's just
• 21:37
  so over-the-top. Whereas, here, it's a bit
• 21:40
  subtler, isn't it? It's a bit more creepy.
• 21:43
  It's, I don't know. It's just, I feel like he's put
• 21:45
  a lot of thought into this school.
• 21:48
  Yeah. Doesn't bother them the girl in
• 21:50
  the fireplace as well. I mean that's a big mother just
• 21:53
  painfully simple. Melody that's played out just on
• 21:57
  one instrument on the piano, you've got that and that really
• 22:00
  adds to that story in here, you just got that Melody on the
• 22:02
  violin and then you've got like when the orchestra does come in.
• 22:07
  It tends to come in again. I'll just run the strings and
• 22:11
  they have a piece like this kind of like swells a little bit.
• 22:15
  It's so beautiful this, the score here and I think series to
• 22:20
  he's done a lot more work than you actually gets credit for in
• 22:24
  order. Samples where you has just
• 22:25
  dialed it back. Stripped it down and given us
• 22:27
  something really simple. Yeah I agree.
• 22:30
  And what about like we have God. Talk about this guest cast and
• 22:37
  the phenomenal characterizing in this just yeah there's they want
• 22:42
  to talk about at the minute is the scene.
• 22:44
  I love going to hug you and he sake humans?
• 22:53
  You are You know, you could have pulled this thing off Jody
• 23:01
  whisker? Yes yeah.
• 23:05
  It wouldn't have felt quite so clumsily added in with her
• 23:09
  doctor but yeah, you're absolutely right joke.
• 23:12
  This is a beautiful cast. This is perfectly cast that.
• 23:18
  No one here is hugely famous. They're all usually guest cast s
• 23:28
  people, but they're all. Absolutely perfect.
• 23:34
  Or the roles that they are playing and they play them
• 23:37
  beautifully and They seized everything.
• 23:39
  So it's really difficult to single out anyone for being
• 23:44
  absolutely brilliant amongst this lat.
• 23:46
  What I'm going to do you going to because it's either, isn't
• 23:50
  it? Because she asked to I think she
• 23:58
  has some really good and he's got All the doubts because he's
• 24:05
  taken on command when it's is the age-old Doctor Who story of
• 24:09
  someone coming to take command when they're not really meant
• 24:13
  to. And this wasn't what they were
• 24:14
  supposed to do, but they have seized it and they're doing
• 24:17
  their best, he's smoking fucking hot as well.
• 24:20
  My God, the things I would do to that, man, he always got the
• 24:25
  better-looking. He's got, I didn't really notice
• 24:29
  when I was younger when I was watching this in my fir T's but
• 24:34
  now Oh my God, your attention was on, but my attention is
• 24:38
  still a willful, but as Toby said, Zack is there is a cure.
• 24:43
  This I'm sack is that Zachary cross flane Captain last one off
• 24:48
  and say, oh, okay. Yes.
• 24:50
  Is that the one you fancy? All right.
• 24:52
  So do you fancy scooti manista? It's got these.
• 24:56
  Lovely butter. Yeah, it was Ida.
• 25:02
  Look at this cast in your Assume that they've been in loads of
• 25:05
  stuff, you know, it's you think it's clever speaker plays
• 25:10
  either, you know, you think I've seen her before, I've seen loads
• 25:13
  of stuff, we actually going to like, Wikipedia IMDb.
• 25:16
  Yeah, it's not that much there, I think that's kind of a
• 25:19
  testament to how the same with all of them.
• 25:23
  How, how well the inhabit there was, I think this point was
• 25:27
  probably, was Will thought that was the biggest name because he
• 25:31
  was a casualty regular, wasn't it?
• 25:33
  Yeah. And the Go to play some Zachary,
• 25:35
  had been David Tennant's friend in Casanova, you know what the
• 25:40
  hence, why they play so? Well, together, I think how they
• 25:43
  written is, I don't like very often.
• 25:46
  I feel like guest characters in a doctor who story feel like
• 25:50
  they are written. As guest characters, in a
• 25:52
  doctor, who story and the doctor is the most important character.
• 25:56
  Actually, I feel like in this day, that it doesn't feel like,
• 26:00
  it doesn't feel that at all, it feels like actually the doctors
• 26:03
  intruding into their Story. That this is a very real
• 26:06
  environment both in how its realized, and how the cast is
• 26:10
  written. And it's the doctor trapped with
• 26:13
  them rather than then populating a doctor who story.
• 26:17
  It's yeah. Oh no.
• 26:19
  You're right. This is one of those stories
• 26:22
  where you feel like They've had a history before this Doctor Who
• 26:27
  story starts and they've got one that whoever is left afterwards
• 26:31
  and you know you've got things like when they're discussing the
• 26:41
  power source and it was the head of security guy Jefferson and
• 26:46
  mr. Jefferson a few of them by the
• 26:48
  amazing. Danny Webb Danny.
• 26:50
  He's a great actor bills. X into point for children.
• 26:56
  I think you did, you know? Oh yes, yes, he did.
• 27:01
  Sorry Frasier you were saying, yeah.
• 27:02
  So, you know, he's talking about the, the power source of fuel
• 27:06
  and the Empire. I mean, the trust Lanes like
• 27:08
  that, isn't that? They then need to be thinking
• 27:10
  all the British Empire's back in that kind of robot holmesian
• 27:16
  way. Yeah, creating a setting with
• 27:18
  just a few lines. Yeah.
• 27:20
  Do you know what they've done to sell its character as well?
• 27:22
  Because there's a line later. Where the Beast says, Thomas
• 27:25
  Jefferson. Did your wife ever forgive?
• 27:29
  You will. Let me tell you a secret.
• 27:30
  It's never did. It's like the master
• 27:34
  manipulating everyone in the demons, isn't it.
• 27:37
  When he's got the village, the villagers all in, and he's
• 27:42
  letting out their secrets, one by one, but none of its
• 27:45
  expounded upon his, its left know, but that they all react,
• 27:50
  and they all react differently to things, and That's that's
• 27:54
  brilliant. And this seems like this where
• 27:57
  the sort of having dinner, you know, that sitting having the
• 28:00
  dinner mean. When does that ever?
• 28:02
  Happened. It just brings a sort of, you
• 28:05
  know, realism and homeliness to it and just helps build that
• 28:09
  way. The helps obviously that you've
• 28:10
  got two parts to spread the story over.
• 28:12
  Yeah. But you can't have, you know,
• 28:15
  it's where, you know, you.org. And so if this is so good, why
• 28:21
  did Matt Jones not come back and do anymore?
• 28:24
  I'll tell you why. I know why.
• 28:27
  Or was that this was heavily Rewritten by Rusty, David Sibley
• 28:32
  problematic script that had a top to toe Rewrite by Rusty
• 28:36
  Davis. Gotten that?
• 28:38
  Yeah, I think he didn't even tortured.
• 28:40
  Didn't he Matt Jones? He might have to, I'm not even
• 28:44
  talked and talked to it series to, he didn't one of the to do
• 28:50
  list of did one and Matt Jones did one that wasn't great, if
• 28:54
  I'm honest. And I'm wondering if that that
• 28:56
  was just Matt Jones kind of lay off the leash to do his own
• 28:58
  thing. I know he was scripted are by
• 29:00
  chibnall in that season. That's probably why.
• 29:03
  No, I was going to say, I think this feels much more like the
• 29:07
  Russell T, Davies story than it does.
• 29:11
  Anyone elses. I mean, there's, there's all the
• 29:14
  sort of Hallmark's there with, you know, massive character
• 29:17
  moments and deus ex machina in the resolution.
• 29:23
  You know, it feels this could very much be a whistle, the more
• 29:27
  than anything else or I feel like Russell T Davies had like
• 29:30
  to, to kind of more stabs at this, didn't evolve like a
• 29:33
  contained setting with a well-defined group of
• 29:36
  characters. One was midnight and one was
• 29:39
  Wars are Mars and they're both super.
• 29:41
  As well. I think.
• 29:44
  Yeah, I think there is an element of this switch.
• 29:48
  You know, is is a bit off, which is, I think what we've got is,
• 29:53
  is a massively scary story coming up.
• 29:58
  Now, we've got a possible to see now that are replicated at the
• 30:04
  start of the Beast behind. It's just, you don't have
• 30:08
  tension. It is, but the so many other
• 30:11
  bits in it. Where Russell is trying to
• 30:13
  undercut that tension and bring a bit of humour in the cold
• 30:18
  open. And there's a classic example of
• 30:19
  a talked, right over the top of that, but we must be you.
• 30:23
  We must feed. We must feed and you that you've
• 30:24
  got the attention of, you know, these scary looking monsters
• 30:28
  coming for them and then we must feed you.
• 30:31
  If you are hungry. It's such a weak joke.
• 30:34
  I love it. I think it's great.
• 30:36
  Well it's you know it's there to bring a bit of levity in and
• 30:41
  there's was a scenes as well. The making you get to the sand
• 30:44
  pit in the corner amount of the air duct making fart jokes and
• 30:47
  yeah, Ma I think I want there are some some of the most
• 30:50
  chilling moments in the new series in this two part of A and
• 30:53
  B, you can only go so far. This is for a family audience.
• 30:57
  You cannot send those kids to bed sweating and screaming.
• 31:02
  You know, you've got to be responsible to a point, but the
• 31:04
  second episode, there's a scene where Toby Zed is in the thing
• 31:07
  and he's screaming his head off going, you know, I have a
• 31:11
  stylist and it's an adult behaving in such an appalling
• 31:14
  way fires coming out of his mouth, okay, margin a little and
• 31:18
  sitting there. Watching that absolutely bloody
• 31:20
  terrified. You know what Steven?
• 31:23
  Moffat would let them, yeah. Well, Steven Moffat?
• 31:25
  See responsible one digs up the dead and turns them all into
• 31:28
  Cybermen and burns people in The Cremation and has some feel it
• 31:31
  like Steven Moffat is a bad man. So again we should on Twitter.
• 31:37
  I heard you have Steven Moffat. Wow.
• 31:41
  Back on Twitter folks what is he saying?
• 31:45
  Shut up Joe. No, Stephon Alexander asked, is
• 31:51
  this the scariest? The new series has been, is out
• 31:54
  there. I'll say it's out there.
• 31:56
  I figured there's a good case to say.
• 31:57
  Yeah, yeah there is I've been probably is the ones that beat
• 32:02
  it or the Steven Moffat story. So hide where we'll be using
• 32:09
  hide scarier than this. Absolutely weird for that
• 32:13
  jump-scare, aren't you? You're waiting for that.
• 32:15
  The whole of Hyde is just that. See the height is undercut.
• 32:18
  Throughout with Matt Smith and Jenna Coleman goofing around
• 32:22
  behaving, like loonies. It's got that whole tension of,
• 32:26
  you know, Things That Go Bump in the night and listen as well,
• 32:32
  the hole under the bed, under the duvet, the thing that's
• 32:35
  knocking behind the door, but, you know, being scared of what
• 32:39
  you don't see in. Listen is a lot scarier.
• 32:43
  I feel you even blink where You know, it's just that tension of
• 32:49
  something's going to happen to me is going to jump out at you
• 32:51
  any minute. So I just like a song out at the
• 32:54
  mere mention of blink, but I probably would say that there's
• 32:58
  things in blink, the ask area this.
• 33:00
  I think this is, this episode is one of those ones as more scary
• 33:03
  as an adult than as a child. I think there's there's some
• 33:07
  character skills in this that I really really like and I say
• 33:12
  midnight, it's scary as an adult as well.
• 33:14
  And that's because the people in that little box Behave.
• 33:17
  So appalling lie that if I was in that position, I would be
• 33:20
  absolutely terrified. But I don't know it's certainly
• 33:25
  this is I think this is tea time horror as bairstow like and it's
• 33:29
  kind of pushing this the scene in a minute with Toby out and
• 33:34
  grinning and beckoning what science cooties are deaf.
• 33:40
  That's that's pretty strong. I tell you what.
• 33:43
  I know the doctor having to get a mortgage, that's what I was
• 33:48
  going to see if we could get one together.
• 33:52
  Let's see, that's on nose, pretty horrific.
• 33:53
  Isn't it? I know, I thought actually, that
• 33:56
  was really nice and touching big, especially the bit where
• 33:59
  the doctor says, I promised Jackie, I'd always get you home.
• 34:03
  And this, as Steven B would say this is the only season where
• 34:08
  you can have a story, a scene like this, because we are doing
• 34:12
  a romance story between the doctor and His companion.
• 34:15
  It's subtle. But this wouldn't work with
• 34:18
  Martha. This wouldn't work with Donna.
• 34:21
  This work with the doctor and Jazz.
• 34:25
  I'd love. This is what you all wanted to
• 34:29
  see them kissing legend of the sea Devils on the beach.
• 34:32
  So you know, Interestingly though it is the second time
• 34:36
  we've seen the scene. Is he what is the first exact
• 34:41
  same suit and girl in the fireplace?
• 34:44
  Yeah, only it's not the doctors room Rose.
• 34:46
  It's not. It's the doctor and Madame de
• 34:48
  pompadour it is. Or isn't he the fireplace
• 34:57
  fireplace? Did that did that?
• 35:02
  Sit better with you than the one in the garden fireplace?
• 35:04
  Well, I think it was it was better written.
• 35:07
  I think the writing was better. The performances between Sophia
• 35:13
  Myles. Owls and the other tenant or
• 35:15
  just you know up. Absolutely.
• 35:18
  Yeah, that's because they were fucking what they were then.
• 35:22
  It's different. It's a different Dynamic.
• 35:24
  And this is what kind of structures.
• 35:25
  Because again, when I watched it the first time and preparation,
• 35:28
  this scene Jarred and stuck out just as much as the one that is
• 35:33
  Rich at the start. But then you know, you rich,
• 35:36
  excuse me. And then you watch, you know,
• 35:40
  you see the equipment's even girl in the fireplace and you
• 35:43
  come to this one? It's the same scene, but it's
• 35:45
  different, it's not like a mirror image and, you know, it's
• 35:48
  sort of like yin and yang so exactly the same but just, but
• 35:52
  just definitely saw it again. That really helps to bring a bit
• 35:56
  of context. You know what, you know the
• 35:58
  difference between this and go in the fireplace?
• 36:00
  Is that Rusty Davis understands television?
• 36:04
  Yes, he understands what gets bums on seats and the will they
• 36:08
  won't. They thing has been a formula.
• 36:10
  That's been a success for many many.
• 36:12
  Many years going back to me. Moonlighting and Way Beyond and
• 36:16
  that's what he's doing with rose.
• 36:17
  And the doctor is like, oh never consummated their relationship,
• 36:20
  they can't because the second they do that, it's kind of dull.
• 36:24
  So is that it, but in a one episode Story, the doctor can
• 36:29
  profess his love for someone who is absolutely and utterly doomed
• 36:33
  to die. Yeah, yeah.
• 36:35
  And but does that The fact that he does that in, in this season,
• 36:41
  where he's supposed to be in, love with rose more than anyone
• 36:44
  else in the whole universe, does that show him up, show up?
• 36:52
  But he's not really invested in it.
• 36:56
  He can't be or, or is it just that he's just a doomed romantic
• 37:00
  figure. Whatever happens, but I always
• 37:04
  come away thinking. It feels like it's in the wrong
• 37:08
  place when this is supposed to be a season about the doctor and
• 37:12
  the companion being in love. And he finds a woman that he
• 37:16
  loves just as much and goes after her in every way.
• 37:21
  I feel like it makes him a total bloody whore and I've never
• 37:24
  should adopt a more, I think, you know, girl in the fireplace.
• 37:30
  You've got to remember that Mickey's around as well, so it's
• 37:33
  not just about the doctor roses. Is there as well.
• 37:35
  You have a wonderful scene in gunfire Place between rows and
• 37:38
  Madame de pompadour when they both talked about the doctor,
• 37:41
  and yes, and student for the doctors, and I just need to
• 37:47
  bring it back to what's happening in the story now
• 37:49
  because this is the see where My eyes are the windows of the
• 37:54
  atmosphere of this planet and this whole scene is just an
• 37:58
  absolute work alongside him. Yeah.
• 38:29
  Isn't it wonderful as well? How she?
• 38:31
  Yeah. How she kind of goes towards him
• 38:33
  and then she's panicking and then she's screaming like when
• 38:36
  you see adults absolutely panicking in a doctor who story.
• 38:40
  That's some of the scariest moments.
• 38:41
  Mmm. And you know, she knows she's
• 38:43
  gonna die now. Like yeah.
• 38:45
  But you've got no chance of knowing you're gonna die.
• 38:49
  That's terrifying. Yeah.
• 38:52
  And the fact that someone, you know, has done that to you is
• 38:55
  quite incredible. What I think really sells this
• 39:01
  scene as well, is the fact that we are very invested in this
• 39:05
  crew. Now, you know, we've had that
• 39:09
  World building so we are no, you know, totally invested so when
• 39:14
  we've lost scooty will feel it. And I think the way that appears
• 39:18
  the rest of the scene plays out, you know, in a minute when the
• 39:21
  finder body and again is It's beautiful because it's a partner
• 39:28
  throughout. We feel the loss of every single
• 39:30
  member of this question. Both of you.
• 39:35
  Okay. Why is it we feel the deaths of
• 39:40
  the people in this story but not say, I don't know the 500 people
• 39:44
  that died in Resurrection of the Daleks or, you know, countless a
• 39:49
  doctor who stories. Is it just that they're better
• 39:51
  written. And they're more likeable.
• 39:54
  Yeah, it's not necessarily that they're more likeable.
• 39:57
  I think it's just that they are better written and we feel like
• 40:00
  we know them. You might not like them all and
• 40:03
  mr. Jefferson, particularly is not
• 40:06
  particularly likeable for a lot of this story, but each one of
• 40:11
  them, I think we just know a bit about them and so you're just a
• 40:15
  bit more invested in them. Yeah, I think you'll see, you
• 40:19
  know, resurrection of the Daleks.
• 40:21
  You've got solve Eric say but there, you know, with his very
• 40:26
  functional lighting of, you know, people are not so much
• 40:31
  character as it's just plot points and you know quite
• 40:35
  disposable. And you know what good ending
• 40:37
  for him is where there's no one left alive, which really does
• 40:41
  quite cheapens you know an on-screen death and where was, I
• 40:46
  mean, just looking here now. Where, you know, the Roses
• 40:49
  reaction in everyone else's reaction to seeing scooty
• 40:52
  floating above the Dome, it will last and I, that's the thing.
• 40:56
  Yeah, really, yeah, really like her.
• 40:59
  So they're all appalled by the fact that she and that special
• 41:02
  effect and I know it may be the ceg's a little bit dated but
• 41:06
  it's not CG is it is well not real.
• 41:09
  Well the obviously the black hole is but they filmed her in a
• 41:13
  in a swimming pool for hours. So that her hair moved like Was
• 41:18
  in 00g. Is one of those things is, this
• 41:22
  is, I'm James Strong's, first story as a director, and he's
• 41:25
  always been referred to in my house as James reassuringly
• 41:29
  expensive, strong. Because if he can find the most
• 41:32
  expensive way to shoot something, he will do well.
• 41:36
  So he so here, he's got the shot in hours in the underwater doing
• 41:45
  this. He does voyage of the Damned
• 41:47
  where He gets all the Titanic, nap, napkins and things table,
• 41:54
  where all hand-embroidered, so that it's absolutely right.
• 41:59
  He sends the crew, the Doctor Who confidential crew off to New
• 42:03
  York, to get skylines of New York in evolution of the Daleks,
• 42:10
  which they could have just cgi'd and things like that.
• 42:13
  He's just always, just a little bit, bit expensive and a bit.
• 42:16
  Oh yeah. A bit more money on this.
• 42:19
  What do you think know? He's also reassuringly stylish
• 42:23
  his Direction. Now, what do you think of Voyage
• 42:25
  of the Damned? Yeah, that is a beautifully
• 42:27
  directed store. Yeah.
• 42:28
  Oh I yeah, I absolutely agree. I really like that.
• 42:32
  And here we've got Doctor Who in his orange.
• 42:34
  Spacesuit, a very first time this one of the one of the
• 42:38
  things we'll be seeing right up to this year, we shipped the
• 42:44
  spaceship so that space suit the Matt Smith war and Capaldi.
• 42:47
  I will enjoy delicious Goods, going to wear.
• 42:49
  Yeah. Okay, from this place.
• 42:51
  Yes, that's nice. You know what?
• 42:55
  Good it has some well you know at the end.
• 42:57
  Yeah I've saved your soul so I'm going to do I'm going to keep
• 43:00
  the clothes. Hmm.
• 43:02
  The exit. I think they could probably wear
• 43:04
  it and kill the Moon. Yes.
• 43:08
  An oxygen. No, they have different suits in
• 43:11
  oxygen because they've got the oxygen suits.
• 43:15
  When does Matt Smith. Where is that?
• 43:16
  Is that hoid? Yes.
• 43:22
  Is a knob in the forthcoming adventure and maybe 10 of ways
• 43:27
  it again in the waters of Mars? Yes, now you're talking water,
• 43:32
  Mars gets my juices flowing. Uh-huh.
• 43:35
  This is what I like this. This is just my uncle like her
• 43:39
  kissing his great again, it's just sickening moment of client.
• 43:49
  I would say he's subtle moment of intimacy over you know what
• 43:53
  I'm going to say now. Don't you Amy Pond trying to
• 43:56
  fuck the doctor at the end of that weeping angels through to
• 43:59
  any day of the week. I rest my case it's a mortgage
• 44:09
  they going down together. If she'd have said at the end of
• 44:12
  fashion Stone in, let's get a mortgage out of found that more
• 44:15
  acceptable. Look at that.
• 44:19
  Look at the shot there. Oh, I've liked the walkway and
• 44:25
  then, you know, it really feels real, doesn't it?
• 44:28
  They put some real thought into how this looks.
• 44:31
  They get out the fact that there's like steam everywhere as
• 44:33
  well. It feels function functional and
• 44:37
  dirty and grimy, you know what? This is, what worries of the
• 44:40
  dicta that look like? Oh, you are right?
• 44:43
  You are so right, all that feels weird coming out of my mouth.
• 44:51
  We all know you're thinking that you'll admit sometimes as well.
• 44:57
  I just take a perverse enjoyment and disagree with you, but But
• 45:00
  now, you're right. Have they had, it doesn't it
• 45:02
  didn't? I always say, let's turn the
• 45:04
  lights down and worries that they, but they didn't have to
• 45:06
  turn the lights on. It just had to be a bit grungy
• 45:08
  and a bit more lived-in. Yeah.
• 45:13
  That we don't quite like the tension of these scenes.
• 45:17
  This feels kind of like Inferno where we've had the drilling,
• 45:23
  but we don't know what we're drilling down to and only this
• 45:26
  time, we've got someone actually going down and they don't know
• 45:29
  what they're going down to. Yes of course.
• 45:31
  It's going to be the doctor. It's a bit.
• 45:33
  Oh, of course. Yeah.
• 45:37
  So earlier on you, you mentioned that this was A scary story for
• 45:43
  children but but I have a tale of you.
• 45:47
  Yeah, but not my own youth at this time doesn't change.
• 45:52
  So my big nephew who is now 20 years old was six.
• 45:58
  When this story went out and my dad's was babysitting.
• 46:06
  My brother had said under no circumstances was my nephew to
• 46:10
  ever watch Doctor Who because didn't want him to turn up like
• 46:13
  his Uncle Simon. So Brilliantly.
• 46:20
  No no it wasn't my brother. No just not my brother but this
• 46:22
  is my sister's children up God I'm gonna get this story right?
• 46:26
  So no, my sister and said under no circumstances was my was he
• 46:31
  to watch Doctor Who And so, my brother was babysitting for him
• 46:37
  and I'm unexpectedly something. Had happened and my brother was
• 46:40
  babysitting and sat him down and watch School reunions, which he
• 46:44
  absolutely loved. So so he was he was sort of big
• 46:49
  into Doctor Who over this year and I really enjoyed it and my
• 46:54
  dad was babysitting for him. The night he was staying with my
• 46:58
  dad and my dad went to cook dinner and left my nephew
• 47:02
  watching this On his own and the basically, the Odes opening
• 47:10
  their eyes and that is being read and being possessed,
• 47:14
  absolutely fucking scared him, so much that he was having
• 47:19
  nightmares and he had to go home in the middle of the night.
• 47:23
  Back to my sister's house, because he would not sleep.
• 47:26
  No, I think we found a more irresponsible babysitter than
• 47:29
  you then, so I haven't we. Yes, that's my Dad should know
• 47:33
  better. Than this.
• 47:34
  So So yes. So it the huge really, really
• 47:41
  scared him and he still has a visceral all moment with the
• 47:45
  huge whenever they're on TV. So this day that he can't
• 47:49
  explain, but they really shit him up, don't you think it's a
• 47:54
  great idea that we kind of get a basic backstory of the issued in
• 48:02
  this but then in Planet of the Ood that's kind of Added a great
• 48:06
  deal a week. You know we we see how these
• 48:09
  dudes are shipped out to all these places.
• 48:11
  And I've I feel like with that extra context, these Ood feel
• 48:15
  even more sympathetic than they do.
• 48:17
  They feel even more tragic, don't they because they are a
• 48:21
  slave race. It's lovely.
• 48:24
  Then when they're liberates, is you know what?
• 48:26
  In the end of time, hanging out in the caves with the big brain
• 48:29
  it and and say what you want about Rose, she is the only one
• 48:34
  calling them out on this. And saying I'll basically you've
• 48:39
  got a slave race, they do the jobs, you don't want to do but
• 48:43
  he is there. He always does that.
• 48:45
  This is she always like talks for the people.
• 48:47
  I think think about it. So I love that, that scene, that
• 48:50
  we talked over earlier on where where she says, oh All I was a
• 48:53
  dinner lady for a while and it's just that little call back to
• 48:56
  earlier in the season and just but she doesn't get a reaction
• 49:00
  from them because they don't react like that.
• 49:03
  You're going to, you said earlier about the mystery at the
• 49:06
  heart of this, you know, we're going down blah blah.
• 49:08
  You don't get anything more mysterious than a great big
• 49:11
  hole. Do you covered up by a manhole
• 49:13
  cover? It's true.
• 49:15
  And this is a Doctor. Who's first Quarry in new Doctor
• 49:18
  Who? Yeah, we got a proper glory and
• 49:22
  they're filming it at night. And it's great.
• 49:24
  It looks like and you not, do you not get Echoes of Flesh and
• 49:29
  stone in those scenes because they have CG did less and the
• 49:34
  Quarry, and that's right. And they've got the big big
• 49:37
  gravity light as well. Haven't they, that, that floats
• 49:40
  up in the are lighting the whole thing?
• 49:42
  And I just think aesthetically it reminds me of those scenes in
• 49:46
  flesh and stone. Which a couple of Seasons away.
• 49:48
  Yeah. Oh my God.
• 49:49
  This is so scary. Look at what those symbols on
• 49:51
  his face. Yeah.
• 49:54
  Let me tell you she never forgave you, what is he talking
• 49:57
  about? It's just weird building again.
• 50:01
  It's, you think you had an affair?
• 50:04
  You think he hit her? Who knows, could be anything.
• 50:09
  He might have spent. All the, all the housekeeping
• 50:12
  for the week, you know, Rusty daggers, pulls off the same
• 50:15
  trick. The knee in towards the Mars.
• 50:17
  When you're on fella says to Adelaide.
• 50:18
  Just as he's about to die. You never forgave me.
• 50:21
  Did you Adelaide? And then he dies and we never
• 50:24
  know what I thought about. Mine is so good.
• 50:30
  So good phrases dog. Has now joined us on the
• 50:33
  recording is kill. Now yeah, I'm afraid we had,
• 50:36
  we've got someone who's just even cuter than praising out.
• 50:39
  Sorry. Frasier, yes, little little
• 50:41
  discomfort, a little cuddle before bed.
• 50:45
  So I don't think about exact Zachary's like someone report
• 50:50
  because he's been saying because all the time he has, he has to
• 50:55
  carry those. The scenes on his own.
• 50:58
  He's doing really well, because he is isolated from everyone
• 51:01
  else. For a lot of this story and he's
• 51:05
  doing a lot of work over communicator and over screens
• 51:07
  with people, rather than being there in person.
• 51:10
  And it takes a certain kind of actor to be able to pull that
• 51:13
  off really well. And he does it really
• 51:14
  brilliantly naturalistically like that, you know.
• 51:17
  Yeah. Oh doses could be really dull.
• 51:20
  It would have been very disappointing, had we not seen
• 51:23
  the personal balls of death at work that we get now.
• 51:26
  Now, and that does require some, yes.
• 51:50
  If you don't understand or expect, although we do have a
• 51:56
  terrible Chi the direction cheats in a minute.
• 52:00
  I like this is the one bit. I have an objection to because
• 52:04
  at the end of the episode where is like the pit is open and I am
• 52:08
  free and the camera comes up out of the pit as if something is
• 52:12
  emerging and let's pull Oaks nothing, it's just get it's just
• 52:17
  style, isn't it? But it does feel like that's a
• 52:20
  POV shot, doesn't it? Yeah.
• 52:23
  Feels like something is something big like, as are all
• 52:26
  is coming out or suit egg or? Well, whatever, because of
• 52:30
  Peace. Yes, because, of course it is.
• 52:33
  Gabriel wolf, who is back as the voice of the Beast, because he's
• 52:38
  cast because he had the scariest voice in classic Doctor Who, I
• 52:44
  am so Tech the Destroyer where I go.
• 52:47
  I leave nothing but dust and darkness.
• 52:52
  And he's the man that Evelyn falls in love with him.
• 52:54
  Big finish. Evelyn, I'm in love with you,
• 52:58
  I've asking you to leave. The doctor said a bit Century
• 53:02
  siskins, isn't that great story reasons for war?
• 53:06
  That's I love that one. So good.
• 53:09
  So so good. Oh my God, it's Indian.
• 53:12
  Yeah. Can look up.
• 53:16
  Do you see the background there? Hold the different letter and
• 53:20
  really, really nice. And I do remember, when they
• 53:23
  said I was the on the edge of my seat like on Desperate, see the
• 53:27
  next episode. Yeah.
• 53:33
  It's a very small class but they're all really good.
• 53:38
  Yeah, it's interesting. That was kind of like talks
• 53:39
  about, you know, discussed this crew these characters that we're
• 53:44
  really invested in with, completely missed the fact.
• 53:46
  That's just a random red shirt floating around and there's
• 53:50
  there's a second one. Those are, is this a woman is
• 53:52
  there who dies at the start of next episode, who's in the
• 53:55
  security team to kind of walk in in the first scene with
• 53:58
  Jefferson and You know, the never named to never speak of
• 54:03
  anything like that. But it again just adds another
• 54:05
  layer, doesn't add to the realism of of this setting of
• 54:10
  seeing. Well actually this is a real
• 54:15
  There you go, you see this? But at least she was that moment
• 54:26
  where the red shirt woman, who's the woman, who played Rosa Parks
• 54:31
  vignetting Robinson, and she has a scene where she's basically
• 54:34
  grumbling because she's a red shirt and all she does is hike
• 54:38
  things back and forth. You know, we could have asked
• 54:40
  some of these red shirts in this game, warden gets a more
• 54:42
  backstory, did I But come on, like, how good was that?
• 54:49
  As a piece of dough? Yeah, that was very classy piece
• 54:53
  of Doctor Who that was, yeah, that was that was great.
• 54:57
  And, you know, you're her tension.
• 54:59
  It had, you know, beautiful character work, you know, good
• 55:06
  performances throughout but I think, you know, again the
• 55:10
  standout thing for me in that episode of movie called, just
• 55:14
  Absolutely knock it out, the park, you know, I'll have that
• 55:17
  to you too. My head for days, know what I
• 55:21
  like but it's question for both of you.
• 55:23
  Then before we out into episode 2 and that is, do you think this
• 55:29
  is the sort of Doctor Who that Doctor Who fans like are longing
• 55:35
  for a week in week out scary based on The Siege strong
• 55:39
  characters? Like it's nothing too different
• 55:42
  from the norm. You know, there are a plenty of
• 55:45
  other Doctor Who stories of this ilk.
• 55:47
  You think this is a sort of Doctor, Who the Doctor Who fans
• 55:49
  love? I've got you.
• 55:51
  This is Hinchcliffe. Who done with a big budget,
• 55:54
  really, isn't it? This is what a certain group of
• 55:58
  fans will always say Doctor Who should be its horror.
• 56:03
  It's scary. It's dark.
• 56:07
  And you could tell from the tone of my voice, but I don't
• 56:10
  necessarily agree that that is what Doctor Who should be.
• 56:14
  You know what I mean? He follows this up with after
• 56:17
  the Satan pit with love a monster study.
• 56:20
  Yeah, exactly. Because because yeah, he's not
• 56:26
  interested in telling just one kind of Doctor Who That's always
• 56:31
  say it's just to be fucking contrary, I think.
• 56:36
  Yeah. I think I'm gonna disagree and
• 56:38
  I'm going to say this isn't the type of Doctor Who that Doctor
• 56:42
  Who fans are looking for. Because seriously Doctor Who
• 56:46
  fans can't agree on anything. So, good point em.
• 56:52
  I still see fans can agree that I didn't like Legends of the sea
• 56:54
  Devils on. These are certain saw a lot of
• 56:56
  that on Twitter this week. Well, I like to add that into
• 56:59
  the see do I think it's a story. That's your, that's your thing.
• 57:16
  You're going to love it. If it's not, if you're more into
• 57:19
  the sort of Comedy element of you more into the, you know,
• 57:23
  sort of fast paced action, sort of stuff, then you're probably
• 57:26
  not going to get your from enjoy the next episodes more because
• 57:28
  there's more action than that. But it really depends on what
• 57:31
  your, you know, what? What, take the doctor who it is
• 57:34
  that you? Like, I'd certainly say, it's
• 57:37
  like a scene Setter in knew who this has rarely been bettered.
• 57:45
  No, I think you're right. I think just the whole
• 57:50
  atmosphere and the attention to the detail.
• 57:54
  In this episode as made it, something that should be
• 57:57
  celebrated and something that should be a bit more celebrated
• 58:01
  than it. Probably is.
• 58:02
  Yeah, definitely. No, I think you're right.
• 57:46
  I think just the whole atmosphere and the attention to
• 57:53
  the detail. In this episode as made it,
• 57:55
  something that should be celebrated and something that
• 57:58
  should be a bit more celebrated than it.
• 58:01
  Probably is. Yeah, definitely.