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Tencent’s bid to create the next FromSoftware and Larian · The Game Business Show

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Look, we want to work with you if you believe one day you can be the category leader
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: in this particular genre.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that could be today,
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: that could be two games from now, three games from now, whatever that is.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Our studios are creating great IPs.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them already have great IPs, like Warframe, like Path of Exile.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, they're still quite niche.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly if they get to the $1,000 mark,
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: which I guess the theme machine has, but it's going to hurt.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: But also, more and more you'll see kind of backwards compatibility.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to The Game Business Show.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: This week's edition is sponsored by Keywords Studios.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now Keywords is of course the major video game industry end-to-end partner
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• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: that are in the newsletter attached with this very show.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of which, let's get to that show.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Today we have an interview with Yong Yi Zhu,
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: who is VP and Head of Operations Strategy and Compliance at Tencent Games,
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: which of course is very much the superpower in the modern video game industry.
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  SPEAKER_01: Now Zhu looks after Tencent Studios outside of China and also works
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  SPEAKER_01: on bringing Tencent Games Now,
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  SPEAKER_01: we did this interview at Gamescom 2026,
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: and we touched upon the growth of Chinese-made games,
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  SPEAKER_01: what Tencent looks for in their studios,
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  SPEAKER_01: and Zoo has also been actively working with Tencent's developers
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  SPEAKER_01: in bringing their games to TV and film as well.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: So there's lots of stuff to touch upon, and here is our chat.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy it.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, Yongli.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, it's great to be on.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I hear you've been listening.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: I have.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Any particular episode that's, uh...
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love all your insights on the industry and the folks that you speak to.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's really an honor to get to speak with you.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm going to ask a stupid question to begin with because
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: I need your help.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Tencent is such a...
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: I knew this was coming and it's not a stupid question at all.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's such a complicated company.
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  SPEAKER_01: I find it very hard to go, well,
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: hang on,
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  SPEAKER_01: you've got all these subsidiaries,
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: you've got Level Infinite, you've got Tencent Games.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: How is it...
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: As succinctly as you possibly can.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: How is the instruction?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: How does it work?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was actually prepared to talk about this.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, Tencent Games, we'll just stick on the game part.
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  SPEAKER_00: First of all, Tencent is a humongous company.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: But on the game side, we have kind of our self-development studio.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, Timmy,
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other side,
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: you've got kind of the publishing teams that work with a number
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: of different studios.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: We have Riot Publishing,
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  SPEAKER_00: Supercell Publishing,
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  SPEAKER_00: China Publishing,
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  SPEAKER_00: and then there's the The department that I work in,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is called IEGG, which is Interactive, Entertainment, and Global.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the G is for global.
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  SPEAKER_00: And within that, basically, Level Infinite is our kind of overseas banner.
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  SPEAKER_00: What I do and what we do is we take games that are developed domestically
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  SPEAKER_00: and help publish them overseas or we take the games that our studio,
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: so we've got about 20 studios under management,
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: the studios that we work with Okay, right, I think I got it.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about Gamescom.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're at Gamescom and
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Chinese companies are everywhere, right?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Opening Night Live, so many games coming out of China on that show.
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  SPEAKER_01: What's happening here?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's funny,
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was just talking to someone about this,
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: and my hypothesis is you've had,
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you rewind,
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: five years,
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  SPEAKER_00: the focus of those Chinese companies have previously been in mobile games.
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  SPEAKER_00: They've seen success,
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  SPEAKER_00: they've done really well,
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  SPEAKER_00: and they know what a good mobile game that succeeds in China looks like,
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  SPEAKER_00: and to a lesser extent maybe globally will look like.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I will say, like,
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: with Black Myth Wukong,
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  SPEAKER_00: It's really up the bar on console PC,
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  SPEAKER_00: but it also shows Chinese developers are quite talented.
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  SPEAKER_00: And now they have a sense of, this is what console PC success in the West looks like.
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  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, we can do it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know, the tools that they have access to, they recognize are way better.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so kind of across all of these things,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's enabled them to really make high quality games that look terrific.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: There was a variety to them as well.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a certain expectation of a game from China might look like this
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  SPEAKER_01: and it's in this sort of genre and that kind of thing.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: But there was a World War II shooter, right?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: How many billions of people there are in China.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure they all have different interests.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, of course.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I spoke to,
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: we had Jagex on the show recently and they talked about how they launched RuneScape
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  SPEAKER_01: into China and they actually felt That it wasn't going to do very well
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  SPEAKER_01: because it's very British.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's a very British game.
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  SPEAKER_01: But actually it found a massive audience.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
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  SPEAKER_01: there's just lots of...
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  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's true going the other way as well as we're finding out.
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  SPEAKER_01: When you bring in your games from China over here,
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  SPEAKER_01: is there an element of... Or it's a Western market.
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  SPEAKER_01: Do you change much?
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  SPEAKER_01: Is there a need to... You know...
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, let me rephrase the question.
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  SPEAKER_01: Because some of those games have been so successful,
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  SPEAKER_01: Is there an element of,
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  SPEAKER_01: we're thinking about our games in a more global way,
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  SPEAKER_01: something that might appeal more to the West,
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  SPEAKER_01: or is it actually the West quite opening up to games from the East, do you think?
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  SPEAKER_00: I think it depends on the game.
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  SPEAKER_00: Some games just resonate globally.
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  SPEAKER_00: Others are very regionally specific,
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  SPEAKER_00: and they kind of,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: we've seen,
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  SPEAKER_00: right now,
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  SPEAKER_00: we're helping to publish Honor of Kings,
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  SPEAKER_00: which, you know, in China is the It's the biggest game.
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  SPEAKER_00: And overseas,
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  SPEAKER_00: we've seen some regions where it resonates, and it's partially because of the genre.
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  SPEAKER_00: MOBAs are big in certain regions and not so big in other regions.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so for us, it's more about kind of finding those pockets.
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  SPEAKER_00: Where does it really resonate with With a particular audience.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then understanding how do we amplify that opportunity with that audience.
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  SPEAKER_00: So once we find an audience,
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  SPEAKER_00: then we'll say,
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  SPEAKER_00: okay, let's, you know, how do we put some of that culture in the game?
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  SPEAKER_00: How do we publish in a way that resonates more with the people that live in
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  SPEAKER_00: that particular country?
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  SPEAKER_00: All of these things.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'll change the subject a little bit because Tencent's obviously been investing in
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  SPEAKER_01: a lot of studios all over the world in China, outside of China.
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  SPEAKER_01: But there's been obviously quite a few I wouldn't say there's not been
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  SPEAKER_01: that many closures, but certainly a lot of cuts and refocusing businesses.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's not just a Tencent thing.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's an industry-wide thing, I know.
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  SPEAKER_01: Is the appetite shifting a little bit around games in China doing so well globally?
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  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we don't need to invest quite so much globally.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is that part of the thinking or I'm speculating a bit.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think if you look at our BD team,
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  SPEAKER_00: they are here and talking to everyone across all the different regions.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think it's necessarily that.
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  SPEAKER_00: I bet they speak more now to,
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  SPEAKER_00: and this is purely speculation on my part as well,
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  SPEAKER_00: that they speak more to the Chinese developers
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  SPEAKER_00: because they've seen high quality products.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And for us,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's more about Chasing high-quality talent and people
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  SPEAKER_00: that are bringing unique visions have a very specific vision.
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  SPEAKER_00: We love to work with developers that are trying to hone their craft.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: The studios that we always cite as kind of, for us,
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: our North Star,
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  SPEAKER_00: like Larian,
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  SPEAKER_00: From Software,
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  SPEAKER_00: they've been in a particular genre for a long time and iterating on that genre.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And for us,
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: That for us is more the long-term commitment.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: You look at those two partnerships specifically that I talked about, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't an overnight success.
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  SPEAKER_00: It was multiple divinities into Baldur's Gate.
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  SPEAKER_00: Demon souls,
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  SPEAKER_00: into Dark Souls,
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  SPEAKER_00: into Bloodborne, and then finally into Elden Ring, which was so big.
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  SPEAKER_00: So, for us, we have... You have a long game approach.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: We do have a long game approach.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's one thing that I think is very unique to Tencent and I think suits us well
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  SPEAKER_00: in working with developers for,
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know, a number of different developers and for a long time to come.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: We've had two Tencent companies on our show.
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  SPEAKER_01: We had Sumo, we had Digital Extremes.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And both of them Basically said to us that you kind of leave them alone.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's options to get involved in things if they want to.
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  SPEAKER_01: What's the thinking there?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or is that changing at all?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a feel like you need to sort of get a bit more involved?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think it's good that they think we leave them alone.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think, um...
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: They think that.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, look,
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: at the end of the day,
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  SPEAKER_00: we try to find studios that have the potential to be independent, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: Like, look at Riot, look at Supercell.
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  SPEAKER_00: They effectively operate by themselves except for China Publishing,
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: which we have to be on the hook for anyway, right?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's a Tencent obligation from a Chinese government standpoint.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And for a company like DE, they've been at this for, what, 13 years now?
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  SPEAKER_00: They know what they're doing.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And for us, I guess it's more about finding opportunities to work with them to amplify.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do they need publishing support in China?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do they need publishing support in regions that maybe it's not their primary language?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: How do we connect with those communities for them Yeah.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: But to be honest, DE doesn't really need that type of support.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: They did.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: At one point,
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: they were like,
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: hey, can you help us with some technical things around porting to Android?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we tried to find developers that could support them.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately,
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think they found a partner that they could work with,
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: and we're like, that's great, too.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is there an element of connecting some of these studios together?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because I imagine you've got different worlds,
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: different countries,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: different territories,
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: different experiences,
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: talking about the mobile developers in China that sort of go into PC and console and
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: then bringing that learning there.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Is there an element of maybe more cross-sharing?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think you do do these sort of,
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know, like town halls, I guess, with multiple studio heads I hear about anyway.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: We just had a leadership offsite two days ago with kind of all of our studio CEOs.
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  SPEAKER_00: Goal is to kind of give them insights on what's happening in the industry and
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: then also just to talk about how we can support Or help with the cross-pollination
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: across all these studios.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: People are like, yeah, we really appreciate it when I don't understand this particular thing.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think someone raised an issue about live service monetization.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: They'd never done that before,
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: but another studio had, and they connected with each other and off they go.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: What investments are interesting today?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know the investment in W4, they partnered the company to Godot.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: What areas are interesting in that regard?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: To be honest, I think that's not an area that I focus in necessarily.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: My job is more about kind of once we get the folks through the door,
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: how do we get everyone to work better together?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: How do we make the studios the best versions of themselves going forward?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: What do they need support from us?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And where do we frankly need to leave them alone and let them spend time to kind
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: of figure it out themselves?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm often interested in the AI cultural differences that exist between...
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: We could say East and West, but it's actually more nuanced than that, I think.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find,
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: for instance,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: that companies in certain markets are far more open to using the technology
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: than others?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was surprised at this offsite.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think more people talked about kind of leveraging AI than I would have expected.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: They were certainly more open to it.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think they see the benefits.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And again, the AI...
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: That they're using is very much in tools that are helping them scale up or do
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: the things that they didn't want to do anyway,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: all the way from concept art development,
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: which I think is very common,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: to motion matching with faces and mocap,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: or automated rigging,
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: or code review, things that are Taking up time to be away from being creative.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think that ultimately is, and I think they recognize that.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, hey,
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I have more time to iterate,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: to create better content, or in some cases to create more content.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, look,
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: our studios are kind of in different phases of like how much tooling that they use,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: but the more they speak with one another,
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: and we'll try to share, to kind of have people share across their learnings as well.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like if a studio is like, hey,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: I had a big hit doing this particular thing in my pipeline,
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: we're like,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: can you write that up and we can share it as a white paper or have you guys do
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: a talk and people do some Q&A,
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: like those are the types of things we're trying to foster.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: In the challenging market at the moment,
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: people trying to get costs down,
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: people turning to AI,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: turning to different distribution ways of how they make games with smaller teams
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: and outsourcing, or you've got some of those outsourced teams within your portfolio.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Has there been much change in how you're sort of advising your teams to sort of work
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: and operate?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think a couple things.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: One is you look at Tencent's portfolio.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of our games are evergreen live service titles.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that helps with kind of the ups and downs of the industry.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you You are constantly connected with your community.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: You have a very stable audience.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think your workforce has the ability to be more stable as well.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, we're trying to make great games.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: There are situations where it's more risky.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Some teams are in concept phase or early pre-production.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think the more the lesson we've learned is just like when the riskier part of
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: the project should be kind of we should really cut down to the core of the team.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: What's the secret sauce of that team?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: It could be 5 people, 20 people, 75 people, whatever that may look like.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: That group that should stay together.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then as we scale and scope, we get past, hey, this is the creative nugget is all proven out.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're getting into production.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's when we scale.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we'll scale with internal dev teams.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And more and more,
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're honestly looking at outsourced teams as that ability for folks
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: to scale up.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're hearing that a lot.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Sumo was talking about that as well.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting,
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: when this interview was pitched to me,
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: the pitch was surprisingly around like transmedia and Hollywood.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I do live in LA.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was a bit surprised.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that some of your studios do bring games and expand them out into movies
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: and TV shows.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a big focus for you or is that just a strange pitch?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, I lucked into it,
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: and the reason is I live in L.A.,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: and there's not a lot of our folks that live in L.A. that can cover this.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: But we have a team in L.A. that actually owns a number of IPs, including Conan the Barbarian.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I got connected to them, And at the time, they were looking for linear media opportunities.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And now,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: we've announced the Amazon series with Genndy that Amazon's kind of putting forth.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me,
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: it kind of sparked a moment of,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: hey, this, you know, our studios are creating great IP.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them already have great IPs, like Warframe, like Path of Exile.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, they're still quite niche.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: They're not as big of an audience as they could be telling.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for us as Tencent, a lot of what we focus on has been gameplay.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're like, hey,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: is there an opportunity for us to partner with storytellers to make
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: the IPs resonate more with a broader audience?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: The challenge there, I think, one, it's got to be authentic.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And two,
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: the storytellers,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: we find the best opportunities Storytellers that really engage with that IP.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: So they can tell the story from their perspective.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it is a proactive thing that you're...
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest,
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: we call it kind of change under the couch because it's not something It's something
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: that the studios necessarily need to be focused on.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's more we bring them the opportunities.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, we don't do anything without their consent.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it's more like Hollywood, it's such a different place to navigate.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so foreign.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Personally for myself,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: before I started kind of going into this and for our studios as well,
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: so that it's like it's not a skill you need to pick up.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: We'll find you the opportunities and we'll make sure that,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: the deals are signed properly and things like that and you get the control
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: that you need as you're kind of going through these things.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just on film and TV.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're looking at,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: that particular group also does like comic books and statues
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: and all these opportunities.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's like, hey,
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: when someone and again with a live service game or with a with a evergreen IP,
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: People want it as a form of lifestyle.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know,
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: they want the thing behind them in their Zoom meeting to show that they are a fan
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: of Conan or Warframe or whatever that IP might be.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: So whenever I have these conversations, people set it up and go, what's the future of this?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Where's that side of the industry going?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Aren't we sort of at the peak of it in a way?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mean like it's going to go down after this, but...
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Peak of?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: The games to film.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Games to film.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: The film and TV.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because Mario We're doing billions of dollars twice.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: You've got hit TV shows, Last of Us, Fallout.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying there's not more success to be found,
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: but when people talk about what's next, I wonder, isn't this okay?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've got any thoughts of where it's heading.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Where it's headed.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: at least from internally,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to say outside of Tencent, but for me, it is a big opportunity.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: IPs are so important, and they need to be managed very carefully and thought about holistically.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Back in the day, you know, when Mario started, it was probably just a game.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And continues to be, or for them for a long time, continued to be just a game.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's, like I said, it's lifestyle.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you look at integration of IPs into short-form video,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Instagram, TikTok, like all these things.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just in one place.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of, how do you engage with that across the board?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And one example, you know, we were talking about kids earlier.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I would say 90% of my son's clothing has some form of a superhero or something on it.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've got the same.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'll quickly ask about platforms because one of the conversations that's going
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: on around here at Gamescom is around console and where that sector's heading.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Are you worried about that because of the rising prices and the falling sales of that sector?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Does that concern you as a sort of game?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's an interesting question because I think if you asked me that two years ago,
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: when I came into Tencent, a lot of our focus was actually PC first.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that was before this whole conversation.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: And for us, it wasn't actually because console was a lesser platform.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: The PC was a more developer-friendly platform.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And for us,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: because most of our studios are innovating on gameplay,
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: we felt like it was less risky to kind of do the PC early access experience.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of a better experience It gave our studios kind of more comfort
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: when it got to 1.0.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: We've recently kind of actually refocused and said, no,
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of our games we feel like are good enough and they should kind
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: of go everywhere, everywhere on every It's a platform that people can engage on.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we're going to continue to make games regardless of,
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: you know, where the platforms go.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think, yes,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: certainly if they get to the thousand dollar mark,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: which I guess the steam machine has, but it's going to hurt.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: But also more and more you'll see kind of backwards compatibility, right?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are so many PS4s,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: PS5s already in the world and,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: you know, Switch, Switch 2 kind of backwards compatible as well.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure the console makers are looking at that.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: We can see they're looking at ways of increasing margins elsewhere,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: so maybe they can take more of a hit on the hardware.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I do hope that the component crisis might be a temporary one.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I think for me, It's interesting about what the next generation's doing.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Are they interested in the boxes under the TV?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think they might be, but we need to give them a reason to play them, I think.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there was a period of time where people were like, oh, everyone's going to go on mobile.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that still hasn't happened, because there's something magical about that big screen that...
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: There was time PC was dead.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I've said on the show a few times is that, you know, cinema was dead.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then this year, look at it, it's back to 2019 levels.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, uh, that's right.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's, um, it turns out, but it all comes down to the content.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Without like an odyssey.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or Spider-Man.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, you're probably back to, you know, a few years ago.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's the key thing.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's not just, I mean,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: there are smaller films,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I say smaller, like Project Hail Mary's and Wuthering Heights and weird stuff.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Backrooms.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, backrooms.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's gonna get into the horror stuff.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: And, um, Toy Story.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is,
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: the key thing about them,
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: there's big films, small films, weird films, and they're interesting films.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you give people stuff to go to the cinema for,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: they'll go to the cinema.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's the same true of console and mobile and PC and anything, really.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: There may be trends, but people come out for good stuff.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's my, I've said that a few times.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the other thing is with advent of AI,
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know, you don't know where the next core hit is going to come from.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it could be something console specific because someone had a vision that now
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: with AI tooling,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: they can actually build it with two people or three people and kind of go to market,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'll ask one more question,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: which is, where do you see sort of what you're doing in Tencent Games in five years?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Where would you like to be?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we've got some games coming out this year.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we've got a big slate of games coming out next year
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: that I'm really I'm really excited about.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, I don't think I can talk about a lot of them.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And for me,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: it's about bringing the opportunity of our content makers to the world
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: and helping them fulfill their dreams and continuing to feel them on that side.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then bringing our players I don't know.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds cheesy, but at the end of the day, I'm in this industry because it's fun.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I like what you said earlier around this idea of FromSoftware's journey
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: from making very niche things to niche but quite big things to mega mainstream hits.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: The biggest games of the year.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And Larian doing the same thing.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you're going, well,
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I guess maybe in five years or maybe longer,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: there might be a few of your other studios that have taken that.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Similar trajectory.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's a nice idea,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: you're thinking multiple games ahead,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: as long as they're heading in the right direction, I guess.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And look,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: part of our job is to help,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: not steer them in the right direction,
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: but help kind of make sure they don't head down the wrong paths,
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: because we see a lot of other studios and we know kind of what doesn't work.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the reason why I'm surprised you don't get more, you're not more.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because of that vast knowledge that you must have from, well,
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: you work on so many projects across so many studios and so many other markets.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I think all games are unique.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think there are certain things that are applicable across games
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: and other things that That are really unique to that game.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really hard to tell until it happens.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the other thing I will say that we do a lot with our developers is testing.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we're very shy about sharing our games with early community,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: small community influencers.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: I will say is one thing I've learned coming to Tencent as well.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a big thing in the industry.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for your time.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And good
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: luck with all your launches in a somewhat busy year.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you to Yong Yee Zhu there.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I did the interview before
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: the War Dogs bulkhead interview we published two weeks back,
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: which was a gaming studio that Tencent had, but later dropped.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to have asked them about that,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: particularly as Joe at Bulkhead said that War Dogs would not have been possible
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: without Tencent's support.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately, the success of War Dogs happened after our interview.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: That is all from us today.
• 24:42
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• 24:45
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• 24:47
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• 24:50
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• 24:53
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• 24:54
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• 24:56
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