Latest / Early Edition with Ryan Bridge / Malindi Maclean: Social media parenting expert from B416 on the Government's plans to restrict social media use for under-16s

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Malindi Maclean: Social media parenting expert from B416 on the Government's plans to restrict social media use for under-16s · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The member's bill has become a government bill. This is
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: the Business on Kids and Social Media. Catherine Wed's Instaban
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: bill stays in the ballot, but Luxon says that parents
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: love this idea. So Erica Stanford has picked up the
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: government work on the under sixteen social media restrictions. They're
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: calling them not a ban but potential restrictions. Now. Melinda
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  Speaker 1: McLain is a social media parenting expert from the new
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  Speaker 1: group Before sixteen. Who's with me this morning, Linda, Good morning,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Karida Ryan, Good to have you on the show. First
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  Speaker 1: of all, this group that's been set up, is this
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  Speaker 1: all a coincidence that it's been set up at this
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  Speaker 1: at the time that the government's doing all this stuff.
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  Speaker 2: No, not a coincident. I think two things at play.
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  Speaker 2: One is that Before sixteen has actually been working on
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  Speaker 2: this issue in the background for months, nearly a year,
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  Speaker 2: and has been raising the issue across all members of
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  Speaker 2: Parliament in all parties. But there's also a point that
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: we're hitting as a society, I think where we've got
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  Speaker 2: this sort of tidal wave of awareness around some of
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  Speaker 2: the harm and the issues, so you know, we are
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  Speaker 2: really coming to I think a societal turning point which
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  Speaker 2: the government is aware of as well as as well
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  Speaker 2: as parents who are who are actually sort of waking
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  Speaker 2: up to the issues.
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  Speaker 1: Is the problems. The age verification thing is a big
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  Speaker 1: problem right. This is what the Australians are having problems with.
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  Speaker 1: How do you verify a child's age without us all
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  Speaker 1: having to send in a photo of our passports?
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  Speaker 2: Ran I think this is a really big misconception that
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  Speaker 2: thing that this can't be done. So there's a couple
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  Speaker 2: of things I'd say. So the first is that age
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  Speaker 2: verification currently exists within big tech platforms, so they are
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  Speaker 2: using their own age verification systems with a lot of
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  Speaker 2: accuracy already. They just have never had an incentive to
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  Speaker 2: deploy this as something that they need to do to
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  Speaker 2: have a minimum age because there's no legislation to enforce it.
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  Speaker 2: And the other thing I'd say is that there's an
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  Speaker 2: higher age verification industry outside of the tech that are
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  Speaker 2: working on this as well, and it hasn't so much
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  Speaker 2: been a problem in Australia. It's that Australia is going
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  Speaker 2: through a process of prototyping different options and being pitched
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  Speaker 2: to by a bunch of different organizations and working out
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  Speaker 2: what the best solution is. How do you not that
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  Speaker 2: they can't do it?
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  Speaker 1: Can you explain how they do do it then?
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  Speaker 2: Without Yeah, so there's a couple of different ways, and
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  Speaker 2: what we think would be the best way would be
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  Speaker 2: a combination of what's called facial recognition, biometric scanning, and
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  Speaker 2: then using an ID token to match those two things.
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  Speaker 2: And these can be done with over ninety nine percent accuracy,
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  Speaker 2: That's what all the trials are saying.
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  Speaker 1: And so you have to give your biometric data to Facebook.
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  Speaker 2: No, in simple terms, you're not handing over your data.
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  Speaker 2: This is done externally by a third party, and you
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  Speaker 2: don't hand over your data. So it just it will
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  Speaker 2: basically verify an ID token. That doesn't mean you're handing
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  Speaker 2: over your data.
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  Speaker 1: Who how do that? How do they verify it? Then?
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  Speaker 1: I mean they must have to know that it's yours.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, there will have to be a linking to this
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  Speaker 2: and the same way that we do this with things
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  Speaker 2: like real Me accounts for bank accounts. It's just the
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  Speaker 2: issue with verification with something like real Me is that
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  Speaker 2: that's not working on actually determining the difference between a
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  Speaker 2: fifteen and a sixteen year old. So that's the key.
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  Speaker 2: The key.
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  Speaker 1: What about because there are problems that well, it could
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  Speaker 1: create problems for other people. Isn't this about parents knowing
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  Speaker 1: what their kids are doing. If you don't want your
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  Speaker 1: kid on social media, don't buy them a smartphone.
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  Speaker 2: I think that is something that would commonly be said
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  Speaker 2: by people who are not a parent of a thirteen
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  Speaker 2: or fourteen year old.
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  Speaker 1: That is me, to be transparent, that is me.
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  Speaker 2: There we go this. You parents are not equipped to
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  Speaker 2: face up to what is happening with big tech. It
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  Speaker 2: is moving too fast. And we're not even talking about
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  Speaker 2: the issues of deep fakes of AI companions. You know,
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  Speaker 2: we are simply talking about the algorithmic feeding of content
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: at the.
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  Speaker 1: Moment, but the actually owning the phone in the first place.
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  Speaker 1: Explain to me why that is so hard that a
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  Speaker 1: parent can't say to their kid n I mean, my
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  Speaker 1: mom said no to me about so many things growing up.
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  Speaker 1: I wasn't allout a cell phone. I mean, yeah, what's
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  Speaker 1: so hard about saying no till you're sixteenth?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think the other thing that legislation will do,
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  Speaker 2: because it's a really it's a really good point. Why
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  Speaker 2: not just say no? But but actually, parents are no
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  Speaker 2: match for this. And if you're out on a limb
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  Speaker 2: with your kid, which at the moment, because the societal
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  Speaker 2: norms are so far the other way, those need to
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  Speaker 2: shift dramatically.
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  Speaker 1: So so parents and parents actually just need a harden
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  Speaker 1: up and tough enough.
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  Speaker 2: This is not a parenting issue, Ryan, this is and
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  Speaker 2: it is It is unfair to put this on to parents.
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  Speaker 2: They cannot, they cannot be a match for these big
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  Speaker 2: tech companies. And we while while we do need but
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  Speaker 2: you can.
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  Speaker 1: If you don't have a phone, Okay, I mean, I
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  Speaker 1: mean simple. They big tech can't get you without a smartphone.
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  Speaker 2: They can get you, and they can get you through
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  Speaker 2: iPads and family computers and laptops. And what we're talking
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  Speaker 2: about is a really comprehensive overhaul of our online safety
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  Speaker 2: reforms for kids in New Zealand. We are shockingly behind
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  Speaker 2: and so parents will have a role in this, but
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  Speaker 2: actually we need change at a system level and we
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  Speaker 2: need the government as a first step to set in
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  Speaker 2: place some legislation. And Erica Stanford is an excellent person
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  Speaker 2: to be leading.
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  Speaker 1: Good She's the best person you could have on the job.
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  Speaker 1: I reckon, Melinda, Hey, interesting stuff where you look forward
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  Speaker 1: to having more debates like this and I'm sure in
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  Speaker 1: the days and weeks and months ahead. Melinda McLain with
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  Speaker 1: a social media parenting expert from the group Before sixteen.
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  Speaker 1: For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: to News Talks it Be from five am weekdays, or
• 5:50
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