Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SHOCK: "MCDONALD'S BABY" Left Dead in Fast-Food Bathroom, Mom Caught on Video?

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SHOCK: "MCDONALD'S BABY" Left Dead in Fast-Food Bathroom, Mom Caught on Video? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece all across America at this
0:16
Speaker 1: very minute, people are going to McDonald's, whether you drive through,
0:22
Speaker 1: or a diet coke or a decaf, whether you go
0:25
Speaker 1: in for a big mac. That slogan sticks in everybody's
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Speaker 1: mind in the back to all be Patty special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles,
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Speaker 1: and he's on a sesame seed bun. You can get
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Speaker 1: whatever you want there, but the shock of a lifetime
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Speaker 1: one McDonald's customer's got. It's something she'll never forget. I
0:47
Speaker 1: Meanancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
0:50
Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven.
0:54
Speaker 1: I very often told yourrs when I saw them cringe
0:58
Speaker 1: or turn away, I felt the same way reviewing the evidence,
1:03
Speaker 1: much less delivering the message to the jury. But I
1:08
Speaker 1: begged them, do not turn away from the truth. Take
1:14
Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at three TV and CBS five.
1:18
Speaker 1: It's just as awful as you can imagine. Somebody inside
1:21
Speaker 1: of that McDonald's restaurant found the child's body, and tonight,
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Speaker 1: with the help of surveillance video, please hope they can
1:27
Speaker 1: catch mom. I was responsible. New video shows the women
1:31
Speaker 1: police are looking for last scene wearing a black Calvin
1:34
Speaker 1: Kleine's shirt, black pants and sandals, who left the bathroom
1:38
Speaker 1: around the same time. Police say someone found a dead
1:41
Speaker 1: newborn baby twenty four hours removed from a horrifying scene,
1:45
Speaker 1: and the restaurant is still open with some people changing
1:49
Speaker 1: their lunch plans when we told them what happened. I
1:51
Speaker 1: think somebody that would do that like that man. Wow.
1:55
Speaker 1: Phoenix Police responded to the fast food locations Sunday afternoon
1:59
Speaker 1: after someone inside the restaurant saw the dead newborn. It's
2:02
Speaker 1: the scene that you can ever be prepared for, is
2:05
Speaker 1: walking in somewhere and locating an infant, a newborn infant.
2:09
Speaker 1: Heather Burner, with a National Safe Haven Alliance, says situations
2:13
Speaker 1: like this should never happen, but it has. She counts
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Speaker 1: this as the eighth child abandonment this year across America.
2:21
Speaker 1: That's our friend David called beano speaking guys. According to
2:27
Speaker 1: one study, eight children abandoned. That's that we know of.
2:32
Speaker 1: How many other children, babies, infants are either thrown away
2:39
Speaker 1: in dumpsters or killed and abandoned, their bodies hidden somewhere.
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Speaker 1: It happens all the time. This time a tiny baby's
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Speaker 1: body found in a busy McDonald's. Again, I'm Nancy Grace.
2:59
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
3:02
Speaker 1: You know, I was just talking about telling a jury
3:07
Speaker 1: not to turn away from the evidence, but I actually did.
3:11
Speaker 1: I let our friends at three TV and CBS five
3:15
Speaker 1: describe what happened, but I will now describe it. A
3:21
Speaker 1: tiny baby found in a busy McDonald's near Phoenix, Arizona.
3:27
Speaker 1: Video surveillance shows a woman walking out wearing a black
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Speaker 1: Calvin Cline T shirt, black tights. She has long, dark hair,
3:41
Speaker 1: seems to me it may be frosted. She appears to
3:46
Speaker 1: be a white female. What more do we know about her?
3:52
Speaker 1: Not much, but I can guarantee you this, when this
3:56
Speaker 1: picture is disseminated across the Americas, someone's going to recognize her.
4:02
Speaker 1: And let me be clear, we are not discussing or
4:07
Speaker 1: attacking the right to choose the debortion. That's a whole
4:12
Speaker 1: another cannon worms. What we are talking about is delivering
4:18
Speaker 1: a child, a healthy child, then murdering the child and
4:25
Speaker 1: disposing of the body. Catherine marsh is joining US Special
4:30
Speaker 1: Victims Liaison for State Attorney's Office in Charles County, con
4:35
Speaker 1: founder of Right Response Counseling and the No Gray Zoned podcast,
4:41
Speaker 1: also with me. Renowned psychoanalyst joining us from Beverly Hills,
4:46
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, not only renowned psychoanalysts, but star of
4:50
Speaker 1: a new Netflix series, Bleeding Empire. Doctor Kendall Crowns joining
4:55
Speaker 1: US Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth let
5:00
Speaker 1: Sure University Texas, Texas, A and M. Also faculty at
5:04
Speaker 1: University Texas Medical Branch. Greg Schaeffer joining US investigator with
5:09
Speaker 1: the international anti human trafficking organization Hope for Justice, A
5:14
Speaker 1: former Phoenix PD detective twenty two years. But first, let's
5:20
Speaker 1: go to special guest reporter with A twelve News Phoenix
5:22
Speaker 1: Bianca Bono, Bianca, thank you for being with us. Tell
5:26
Speaker 1: me what happened at the McDonald's. What do we know?
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Speaker 1: So what we know is that on March twenty seventh,
5:31
Speaker 1: around two o'clock in the afternoon, in broad daylight. Okay,
5:35
Speaker 1: wait a minute, you just stole my cash phrase and
5:39
Speaker 1: broad daylight. I mean, that's a whole nother layer that
5:43
Speaker 1: we're gonna throw at doctor Bethany Marshall. Will everybody statistically, mentally, psychologically,
5:51
Speaker 1: broad daylight is a whole nother animal. That said, sorry, Bianca,
5:56
Speaker 1: Bono twelve news, go ahead is no problem. So police
6:00
Speaker 1: officers responded to that McDonald's restaurant near thirty third Avenue
6:05
Speaker 1: and Indian School, about ten minutes northwest of downtown Phoenix,
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Speaker 1: to a call about an injured person, is what they said.
6:13
Speaker 1: And when they showed up, they located a newborn baby
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Speaker 1: boy inside the bathroom of the McDonald's. We're told that
6:21
Speaker 1: officers then attempted life saving measures, and then the Phoenix
6:25
Speaker 1: Fire Department showed up and did the same, but unfortunately,
6:28
Speaker 1: they pronounced that infant dead at the scene. Bianca, you've
6:32
Speaker 1: got a ranking from the fire Hydrump. You're giving me
6:36
Speaker 1: so much so quickly, I can't digest it. I've got
6:41
Speaker 1: a breakdown every sentence you said. Oh, you gave me
6:44
Speaker 1: a flashback to law school. I was a Shakespearean literature
6:48
Speaker 1: major when I got a hold of my first US
6:51
Speaker 1: Supreme Court decision. One sentence can be a paragraph. I
6:55
Speaker 1: would have to dissect each part of the sentence to
6:58
Speaker 1: understand what they were saying. Okay, let's take let's take
7:03
Speaker 1: an analysis. Let's analyze what Bionka Bono has just told us,
7:06
Speaker 1: first of you, doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst. Doctor Bethany, you're
7:10
Speaker 1: throwing away at newborn baby boy, an infant dead, And
7:18
Speaker 1: of course I'm going to come back to you, doctor
7:19
Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns on how long had the baby been dead?
7:22
Speaker 1: How do we know could have just died? All that,
7:26
Speaker 1: I'm going to come back to you. To Greg Sheffer,
7:29
Speaker 1: how often is this kind of crime, a murder affected
7:32
Speaker 1: in daylight hours, in broad in plain view. But to
7:36
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, I mean, no shame, no shame. I mean,
7:42
Speaker 1: there's one thing, dumping a baby in a dumpster out
7:45
Speaker 1: behind a building at midnight, which is bad enough, But
7:50
Speaker 1: to have the khonies to walk into a McDonald's in
7:55
Speaker 1: broad daylight when people are in there ordering their cheeseburgers,
7:58
Speaker 1: or is David and I deuces, we don't drink soda
8:01
Speaker 1: at home, A sneaky DCA. I mean, they're in there
8:05
Speaker 1: and she walks in with a dead baby and leaves
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Speaker 1: it in the bathroom. There's so many layers. Just let's
8:14
Speaker 1: start with broad daylight. Nancy. There's a lot of layers.
8:17
Speaker 1: There's so much to say about this. I mean primarily
8:19
Speaker 1: to say layers to the onion's that's very old. Please
8:24
Speaker 1: don't okay, go, Okay, Well, then let's start with the
8:27
Speaker 1: fact that this woman probably never bonded with this baby,
8:32
Speaker 1: even in utero, even at conception that something happened in
8:36
Speaker 1: this woman's life. Have you have you looked at up
8:40
Speaker 1: because very often people ask me, what are you looking
8:43
Speaker 1: down at? Well, for the longest time at HLN, they
8:48
Speaker 1: had installed, as you know, Bethany a baby, a baby
8:51
Speaker 1: cam so I could see the children because I couldn't
8:54
Speaker 1: bear to be away from them at night. I remember
8:56
Speaker 1: the man cam. It was actually part of the disk. Okay,
9:01
Speaker 1: I look at them on one side and on the
9:03
Speaker 1: other side, I would look at pictures. That's what I'm
9:05
Speaker 1: looking at right now. I'm looking at a picture of
9:08
Speaker 1: her walking out in the black tides, down to the ankle,
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Speaker 1: some brown sandals. Okay, I'm not sure, but I believe
9:15
Speaker 1: she's got a pedicure, a black T shirt that says
9:20
Speaker 1: Calvin Kleine something under it. She's got hair just below
9:25
Speaker 1: her shoulders. Oh, it's definitely frosted, dark maybe light brown,
9:30
Speaker 1: hair parted I think kind of in the middle it's long,
9:34
Speaker 1: and from about the eye level down it looks like
9:39
Speaker 1: it's been frosted a little bit. That's what I'm looking at. Okay,
9:42
Speaker 1: go ahead, m well, Nancy. In order to assess the situation,
9:46
Speaker 1: we could look historically, what happened when she was impregnated,
9:50
Speaker 1: what happened in terms of her family relationships. Why during
9:53
Speaker 1: the day, Why is she waddling When I was looking
9:56
Speaker 1: at the video you're looking at it looks like she's
9:59
Speaker 1: kind of w budding into the McDonald's and she's waddling out.
10:03
Speaker 1: And it's hard to know from the security camera what
10:06
Speaker 1: the time laps is between when she enters the bathroom
10:09
Speaker 1: and when she aches it. So I have no idea
10:12
Speaker 1: because I'm a non medical psychoanalyst. Did she give birth
10:16
Speaker 1: in the bathroom or did she carry the baby in
10:19
Speaker 1: These are so many questions for other guests, But what
10:22
Speaker 1: I will say from a psychodynamic perspective is that this
10:26
Speaker 1: is a woman. While she may have been motivated by
10:28
Speaker 1: criminality and being homicidal, she likely never bonded with the baby.
10:34
Speaker 1: And a large recent study of women who secretly abandoned
10:38
Speaker 1: their babies, one of the things that was learned is
10:41
Speaker 1: that these women have a great deal of shame about
10:43
Speaker 1: the pregnancy. They do not bond with the baby from
10:47
Speaker 1: the time of conception. There's often intimate partner violence, poor
10:52
Speaker 1: levels of parental support, appolling, lack of prenatal care play.
11:01
Speaker 1: I know, I know to go with that fine, because
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Speaker 1: doctor Bessani, I'm not asking you about the historical analysis
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Speaker 1: of her impregnation. I believe you said that when she
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Speaker 1: got pregnant, because I don't care, and I don't care
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Speaker 1: what her family situation is, if she did not want
11:24
Speaker 1: to commit murder, um don't If don't you have a
11:28
Speaker 1: very unfettered pro choice position in Arizona. Bianca Bono, the
11:35
Speaker 1: position is actually largely pro life in Arizona. You do
11:39
Speaker 1: you do? You have abortion laws there? I mean, can
11:41
Speaker 1: a woman get an abortion there? She can't. Spring Breakers
11:52
Speaker 1: and parents beware the disappearance of honor student Natalie Holloway
11:55
Speaker 1: is a warning. We had to Aruba with Natalie's mom.
11:58
Speaker 1: What can we learn? Nancy Grace's shocking new investigation streaming
12:02
Speaker 1: now only on Fox Nation. Sign up today Crime Stories
12:11
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace to Katherine Mars joining me special victim's Liaison,
12:18
Speaker 1: I'm not taking a position for or against abortion. Right now,
12:22
Speaker 1: I'm not discussing pro choice or pro life right now.
12:26
Speaker 1: I am discussing murdering a baby right now. You give
12:31
Speaker 1: birth to the baby and then you murder it. Why
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Speaker 1: would you inflict that pain on a newborn infant? I
12:39
Speaker 1: don't organ it, Catherine Well, I think it's a hard
12:42
Speaker 1: thing for any of us to wrap our mind around.
12:44
Speaker 1: But as prosecutors, the first thing we have to establish
12:47
Speaker 1: is was the baby born alive or was it a
12:51
Speaker 1: stillborn birth? In order for us to get to that
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Speaker 1: homicide murder component for court. Okay, you know, you just
13:01
Speaker 1: you're giving me another flashback, because if you're giving birth
13:04
Speaker 1: to a baby and the baby is stillborn, why would
13:08
Speaker 1: you just not call nine one one? Why? Because that's
13:12
Speaker 1: what I would do if I had suddenly given birth
13:14
Speaker 1: and the baby was still born, I would call nine
13:16
Speaker 1: one one and try to revive the baby. I would
13:19
Speaker 1: not put in a bag and dump it. Also, the
13:22
Speaker 1: fact that nobody is identifying this woman tells me nobody
13:26
Speaker 1: knews she was pregnant, which means she likely concealed her pregnancy.
13:30
Speaker 1: Another indicator to doctor Kendall, Crown's chief medical examiner, Tarrant County.
13:35
Speaker 1: How can we tell if the baby was alive or stillborn? Well,
13:40
Speaker 1: the main thing you can do is you take the
13:43
Speaker 1: infant flungs and you placed them in like water, and
13:46
Speaker 1: if they float, it shows that they had taken a
13:49
Speaker 1: breath and filled their lungs with the air. Also, you
13:53
Speaker 1: can look at it histologically or under the microscope looking
13:57
Speaker 1: for the actual air sex to show expansion. And those
14:00
Speaker 1: are the two kind of rough indicators for them to
14:04
Speaker 1: have taken a breath. They're not exact, but they're the
14:06
Speaker 1: best we have. Doctor Kendall Crowns, I'm just a j
14:10
Speaker 1: D or the MD. Did you say that one more time?
14:13
Speaker 1: And very slowly forming place. So the ways you can
14:16
Speaker 1: tell if an infant has taken a breath at breath
14:19
Speaker 1: that wasn't born as still born as you can take
14:23
Speaker 1: the lungs out of the body cavity and so you
14:25
Speaker 1: have an autopsy. Yes, yes, were the big gigantic cut
14:30
Speaker 1: the v from the shoulders going mid white in a
14:33
Speaker 1: straight down like a giant y. Right Go ahead, pluck
14:40
Speaker 1: the skin away, cut the chest plate off, then take
14:43
Speaker 1: the lungs out and then he placed the lungs in
14:46
Speaker 1: a jar of water, and if they float, it shows
14:49
Speaker 1: that the lungs had had air in them, were filled
14:51
Speaker 1: with air. You can also cut the lungs up and
14:55
Speaker 1: take small portions of them and look at them under
14:58
Speaker 1: a microscope and they you'll see under the microscope that
15:02
Speaker 1: the air sacks or the alveolol have filled with air,
15:06
Speaker 1: showing that they took the breath. You know. Greg Shaeffer,
15:10
Speaker 1: investigator with the international anti human trafficking organization Hope for
15:14
Speaker 1: Justice and former Phoenix PD twenty two years and Crimes
15:20
Speaker 1: on Children. Just hearing doctor Kendall Crowns, it's very sobering.
15:26
Speaker 1: It's very sobering to think of a tiny baby undergoing autopsy,
15:33
Speaker 1: having its lungs removed and putting them in a jar
15:35
Speaker 1: of water to see if mommy murdered it. It's kind
15:40
Speaker 1: of overwhelming. Well, yeah, obviously it's disturbing, and just like
15:44
Speaker 1: we already talked about, there was no connection to the
15:47
Speaker 1: child and that's why she allegedly she left it in
15:51
Speaker 1: the McDonald's. But what's really sad is that there's four
15:57
Speaker 1: fire stations within five minutes of that location. They're all
16:00
Speaker 1: safe havens, and there's three hospitals within fifteen minutes of
16:04
Speaker 1: that location, which were all safe havens as well, So
16:07
Speaker 1: that child could have been delivered to any one of
16:09
Speaker 1: those places, no questions asked, no questions asked, the baby
16:14
Speaker 1: could I had researched that, and I found safe havens
16:17
Speaker 1: less than ten minutes away from the McDonald's where the
16:19
Speaker 1: baby was left. You're saying it's actually five minutes. Five minutes, yeah,
16:23
Speaker 1: Well there's four fire stations right around that McDonald I
16:27
Speaker 1: used to work in Maryville right there, so there's four
16:31
Speaker 1: fire stations there, three hospitals less than fifteen minutes away,
16:36
Speaker 1: one of them Phoenix Children's Hospital. So the child could
16:40
Speaker 1: have been taken to a facility and turned over and
16:43
Speaker 1: no questions asked, anonymous, And she could have been on
16:46
Speaker 1: her way, but she chose this route. It's unfortunate. I
16:52
Speaker 1: think down the road, you know she's going to get
16:55
Speaker 1: identified and they'll probably go she's gonna get identified. Speaking
16:59
Speaker 1: of safe haven take us an our cut too again.
17:02
Speaker 1: This is David Kultbiano with RETV and CBS five. Arizona
17:07
Speaker 1: law let's parents who are loved ones surrender unharmed babies
17:10
Speaker 1: who are up to thirty days old to police departments,
17:13
Speaker 1: fire stations, and hospitals without repercussion. Heather says, there are
17:17
Speaker 1: plenty of resources to avoid this crime. The saddest part
17:20
Speaker 1: of all of this is that they don't have any choices.
17:23
Speaker 1: They are at the whim or will of their parents.
17:27
Speaker 1: It's traumatic, I think, because we know there are so
17:30
Speaker 1: many options now, there are so many safe alternatives to
17:34
Speaker 1: placing your baby in an unsafe or dangerous situation. Back
17:37
Speaker 1: to this, McDonald's safe havens are less than a ten
17:40
Speaker 1: minute drive away. Now people in this area want to
17:43
Speaker 1: see an arrest. Another look at this security camp video
17:47
Speaker 1: of the woman police are searching for. Okay, let's talk
17:50
Speaker 1: about that. How are we gonna find the mom? And
17:54
Speaker 1: to you Bianca Bono joining us from twelve News and Phoenix.
17:58
Speaker 1: Has there been any speculation that the child had just
18:04
Speaker 1: died or was still alive in the bathroom or is
18:10
Speaker 1: it believed the child was dead when she brought it in.
18:14
Speaker 1: That's the big question that we're still waiting to get answered.
18:17
Speaker 1: But what I can tell you is more of what
18:20
Speaker 1: police told us initially when they notified the public about
18:24
Speaker 1: this incident. They told us that they did locate the
18:27
Speaker 1: newborn baby boy inside the bathroom, and they said that
18:31
Speaker 1: they did attempt life saving measures, and then the scene's
18:35
Speaker 1: fire department showed up and did the same. I have
18:38
Speaker 1: read a tiny portion of the police report that says
18:42
Speaker 1: the boy was pronounced dead at the scene. Anyone with
18:47
Speaker 1: information is asked asked to contact Silent Witness at four
18:52
Speaker 1: eight zero Witness WI t N E SS for eight zero.
19:01
Speaker 1: For those of you just joining us, A newborn infant,
19:05
Speaker 1: a baby boy, has been found dead at a very
19:10
Speaker 1: busy McDonald's in the last months. It's the second time
19:18
Speaker 1: that a child has been abandon Take a listen to
19:21
Speaker 1: our cut four our friends at kpn X twelve. In
19:25
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, another infant was found in the bathroom trash
19:28
Speaker 1: can at an Amazon warehouse. The mother in that case
19:31
Speaker 1: later telling officials she didn't know she was pregnant and
19:34
Speaker 1: had given birth to a stillborn. She was not prosecuted.
19:38
Speaker 1: In the US this year, in twenty twenty two, there
19:40
Speaker 1: have been eight illegal abandonments. For some reason, we are
19:44
Speaker 1: seeing that there are a lot of these cases right
19:46
Speaker 1: now in Arizona. There are options. Infants can be brought
19:50
Speaker 1: to a designated safe haven location like hospitals and fire
19:54
Speaker 1: departments up to thirty days after birth. Why didn't that
19:58
Speaker 1: happen here now in the case, since this is becoming
20:02
Speaker 1: the point of our discussion. In the case of the
20:05
Speaker 1: mother in twenty nineteen, that child was determined to have
20:11
Speaker 1: been born still born, still a crime to disposed of
20:16
Speaker 1: human body, but in this case we have no indication
20:22
Speaker 1: this baby was still born. It's not by far the
20:28
Speaker 1: first time this has happened. Take a listen to our
20:32
Speaker 1: friends at Station fifteen on the Allison lightsh case. Now
20:37
Speaker 1: at six day in court, a young mother who abandoned
20:41
Speaker 1: her infant inside a dumpster is formally charged with attempted murder.
20:45
Speaker 1: Good evening, I'm Heather Heren, I'm Mark Bellinger. Thanks for
20:47
Speaker 1: joining us. Alison Lesh is nineteen. She was emotional as
20:51
Speaker 1: she appeared in Decalp Superior Court this afternoon where she
20:54
Speaker 1: entered a plea of not guilty. News Channel fifteen Janie
20:57
Speaker 1: Allen was inside the courtroom and joins us. Now the
21:00
Speaker 1: courthouse with the latest well Mark and had there. Alison
21:03
Speaker 1: lesh gets face up to fifty years behind bars for
21:05
Speaker 1: attempt and murder. She allegedly gave birth and then threw
21:09
Speaker 1: her newborn baby away like trash, and tonight we are
21:12
Speaker 1: learning new shocking details about how she did it. Alison
21:16
Speaker 1: will tell us what happened. People want to know your
21:18
Speaker 1: side of the story. Nineteen year old Alison Lesh didn't
21:22
Speaker 1: have anything to say to our cameras as she made
21:24
Speaker 1: her way to Declp Superior Court, but she did become
21:27
Speaker 1: emotional as she neared the door inside. She was formally
21:31
Speaker 1: charged with attempted murder for allegedly wrapping her newborn baby
21:34
Speaker 1: girl inside a trash bag and tossing her inside a dumpster.
21:38
Speaker 1: Lesh had only been living here at Forest Point Apartments
21:41
Speaker 1: in Auburn for about a month, and court documents are
21:44
Speaker 1: now shutting some light on the hours leading up to
21:46
Speaker 1: the discovery of her baby. They say Lush delivered the
21:49
Speaker 1: baby inside her bedroom late Saturday night. She then wrapped
21:53
Speaker 1: the newborn in a blanket and left her on the
21:55
Speaker 1: floor while she cleaned up the mass, showered, and tried
21:58
Speaker 1: to go to sleep. According to those documents, the next day,
22:01
Speaker 1: she put the baby in a trash bag and into
22:03
Speaker 1: the dumpster as she left for work. You know, to you,
22:07
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, we keep seeing the same scenario putting
22:11
Speaker 1: the baby in a blanket then a trash bag. The
22:14
Speaker 1: dichotomy of wrapping an infant in a baby blanket and
22:21
Speaker 1: then putting it in a black trash bag and a dumpster.
22:26
Speaker 1: It is very disturbing, Yes it is. And you know
22:30
Speaker 1: what it shows me is actual contempt and hatred for
22:35
Speaker 1: the child and actually prioritizing the needs of the mother
22:38
Speaker 1: over that of the child. I know that's going to
22:40
Speaker 1: sound strange, but think about what motherhood is all about.
22:43
Speaker 1: When we're a mother, the child's needs are more important
22:47
Speaker 1: than anybody else on the face of the planet, and
22:50
Speaker 1: they're more important than our own needs. And contrast that
22:53
Speaker 1: to double triple wrapping the child like you would a
22:56
Speaker 1: piece of putred trash in order to hide the child
23:00
Speaker 1: and put the child in the dumpster. So what that
23:02
Speaker 1: mother is doing is she's trying to secrete the child
23:06
Speaker 1: so she won't be caught. It's all about her. It's
23:09
Speaker 1: the most profound act of selfishness. And layer that with
23:13
Speaker 1: the fact that this woman we're talking about did it
23:16
Speaker 1: during the day. Either that's when her labor was complete,
23:20
Speaker 1: she went into labor and it was time for her
23:22
Speaker 1: to deliver, or there were people in her life who
23:26
Speaker 1: would have found out she was pregnant. So she waited
23:29
Speaker 1: until her boyfriend, her parents, siblings, people were at work
23:33
Speaker 1: and they wouldn't find out, and that's when she went
23:37
Speaker 1: and did it. And to me, that's what adds the
23:39
Speaker 1: layer of criminality, is waiting until everybody else is a way,
23:45
Speaker 1: so that you do it secretly. There's two kinds of abandonments.
23:48
Speaker 1: There's open abandonment where you kind of just you leave
23:52
Speaker 1: the child with a babysitter, you take off, you never
23:54
Speaker 1: contact the babysitter, or you leave them, leave your child
23:57
Speaker 1: with the grandparents and then you leave the country. That's
24:00
Speaker 1: an open abandonment. Then there's a secret one. It's when
24:03
Speaker 1: you secrete the infant away, you kill the child, or
24:06
Speaker 1: there's a stillborn like we talked about, you put the
24:08
Speaker 1: child in a dumpster or in a trash can, and
24:11
Speaker 1: at that point the child is so devalued, such a
24:16
Speaker 1: nothing in the mind of the infant of the mother
24:18
Speaker 1: that it turns the whole idea of motherhood on its
24:22
Speaker 1: head and it's really a disgusting act. Nancy. The phenomena
24:26
Speaker 1: of killing your baby at birth was brought to the
24:30
Speaker 1: forefront with the case of the so called prom mom
24:35
Speaker 1: Melissa Drexler, who at her prom goes into the bathroom,
24:41
Speaker 1: gives birth, goes back onto the dance floor, and special
24:46
Speaker 1: requests the song Unforgiven take a listen to our cut
24:53
Speaker 1: b this is Unreasonable Doubt podcast. Upon arriving to the whole,
24:57
Speaker 1: she soon fled to the bathroom. Concerned friends followed Melissa
25:02
Speaker 1: and started to wait outside the toilet stool she had
25:04
Speaker 1: barricaded herself into to get rid of her peers. She said,
25:09
Speaker 1: go tell the boys, I'll be right out. Within just
25:13
Speaker 1: thirty minutes, Melissa Draxsled delivered a healthy, six pound baby
25:18
Speaker 1: boy alive. He cut the umbilical cord on the edge
25:22
Speaker 1: of the metal sanitary waistbin inside the toilet stool. He
25:26
Speaker 1: then took her baby out of the toilet, wrapped a
25:29
Speaker 1: series of garbage bags around him, placed him inside into
25:33
Speaker 1: the garbage bag, and then threw him into the trash. Can.
25:37
Speaker 1: I mean that's a whole another layer of guilt in
25:42
Speaker 1: my mind. Let's go out to Katherine Mars joining me
25:45
Speaker 1: Special Victims Liaison State Attorney's Office. Katherine. There, she goes
25:50
Speaker 1: out on the dance dooor continues to dance to Metallica's unforgiven. Absolutely.
25:54
Speaker 1: It certainly goes to show intent, state of mind, and
26:00
Speaker 1: quite frankly, just how callous she was in the abandonment
26:03
Speaker 1: in that of the child after she gives birth. The
26:07
Speaker 1: fact that she could cut the umbilical cord, wrap the
26:10
Speaker 1: child and then take the child to the trash, those
26:13
Speaker 1: are all steps that go to the premeditation and laying
26:17
Speaker 1: every single bit of it out in front of a jury.
26:20
Speaker 1: To Bianca Bona, a reporter with Knees twelve in Phoenix,
26:25
Speaker 1: that's a really good surveillance video. I find it very
26:28
Speaker 1: hard to believe she has not been identified yet. Where
26:31
Speaker 1: has this been disseminated. It's been disseminated all over the
26:37
Speaker 1: Greater Phoenix area and actually really across the entire state
26:40
Speaker 1: of Arizona. And you're right, the video is crystal clear,
26:44
Speaker 1: and it's a long video as well, so you get
26:46
Speaker 1: a really good look at her top to bottom as
26:49
Speaker 1: she goes to walk into the bathroom, attempts to open
26:53
Speaker 1: the door a first time and it's locked, and then
26:56
Speaker 1: goes back up second time. So it's a fairly long video.
27:00
Speaker 1: So as of the latest information we have from police,
27:03
Speaker 1: she hasn't been identified, but they're doing so much behind
27:06
Speaker 1: the scenes, so I wouldn't be shocked if they already
27:09
Speaker 1: know who this person is, you know. Another issue is
27:11
Speaker 1: McDonald's has surveillance video on the inside, video surveillance cams
27:15
Speaker 1: on the inside and the outside. To Greg Cheffer, I
27:19
Speaker 1: find it really difficult to believe that there is not
27:22
Speaker 1: video of her leaving getting into some kind of a car,
27:26
Speaker 1: even if you can't see the tag, which I believe
27:30
Speaker 1: in Arizona you have tag on the front and the back,
27:34
Speaker 1: not just the back as in many states. But even
27:37
Speaker 1: if you can't see the tag, you can get the model, make,
27:40
Speaker 1: and color of the car, figure out how many people
27:44
Speaker 1: in that area have that car. That's not hard to do.
27:48
Speaker 1: Then cross reference to driver's license once you get title
27:51
Speaker 1: and registration. I mean, it takes a minute. It takes
27:55
Speaker 1: somebody to sit down and do that research. But that's
27:59
Speaker 1: how to do it right. Well, Like like she said,
28:04
Speaker 1: they're probably doing a lot of that behind the scenes.
28:05
Speaker 1: They're probably they probably grabbed all the footage and then
28:08
Speaker 1: an entire square right there and they're going through it
28:12
Speaker 1: doing that. I think there's a Costco right over there too,
28:15
Speaker 1: and Costco usually has really good footage as well. Oh oh,
28:19
Speaker 1: I imagine they're doing that across the street. Really, Oh,
28:22
Speaker 1: it's in a parking lot. There's a big, huge right
28:25
Speaker 1: there near thirty third Avenue in Indian School Road. I mean,
28:29
Speaker 1: you know, Greg Cheffer, cost need to be all over
28:31
Speaker 1: that surveillance video, including if it goes into residential which
28:36
Speaker 1: I'm not sure of, the terrain ring, doorbell cams or
28:40
Speaker 1: something similar to them, surveillance video in all of the businesses,
28:44
Speaker 1: as you just said, a Costco they have an excellent
28:48
Speaker 1: video surveillance and not only that, red light cams aren't great.
28:54
Speaker 1: They're specifically there to get your tag number. I wonder
28:58
Speaker 1: if all that is being done the Acabono. I would
29:01
Speaker 1: imagine that it is. And it's worth noting that this
29:04
Speaker 1: is an area where there's a lot of foot traffic
29:07
Speaker 1: as well, So it's unclear if she drove to that mcdonald'
29:11
Speaker 1: they're walked up, But like the detective just said, it's
29:15
Speaker 1: a very busy area and there are a lot of
29:18
Speaker 1: businesses around that McDonald So you know, we only have
29:22
Speaker 1: this one video clip from inside, but that's because that's
29:25
Speaker 1: all that's been shared with the public. So I would
29:27
Speaker 1: imagine there's a lot more surveillance video that's being come
29:30
Speaker 1: through this on the heels of another knee born being abandoned,
29:34
Speaker 1: a mystery as a baby is actually left on the
29:37
Speaker 1: hood of a part car in Connecticut as cops hunt
29:43
Speaker 1: for the man. We believe the dad fleeing the scene
29:48
Speaker 1: in a dark colored vehicle. That just happened, and now
29:52
Speaker 1: this across the country in Arizona Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
30:15
Speaker 1: For most of you just joining us, take a listen
30:17
Speaker 1: to our cut one David Caltabiano at three TV. It's
30:21
Speaker 1: just as awful as you can imagine. Somebody inside of
30:24
Speaker 1: that McDonald's restaurant found the child's body, and tonight, with
30:28
Speaker 1: the help of surveillance video, please hope they can catch
30:30
Speaker 1: while I was responsible. New video shows the women police
30:34
Speaker 1: are looking for last scene, wearing a black Calvin Klein's shirt,
30:38
Speaker 1: black pants and sandals, who left the bathroom around the
30:41
Speaker 1: same time police say someone found a dead newborn baby.
30:45
Speaker 1: Twenty four hours removed from a horrifying scene, and the
30:48
Speaker 1: restaurant is still open with some people changing their lunch
30:52
Speaker 1: plans when we told them what happened. I think somebody
30:55
Speaker 1: they would do that like that. Wow. Phoenix police responded
30:59
Speaker 1: to the as Food locations Sunday afternoon after someone inside
31:03
Speaker 1: the restaurant saw the dead newborn. It's the scene that
31:06
Speaker 1: you can ever be prepared for, is walking in somewhere
31:09
Speaker 1: and locating an infant, a newborn infant. Heather Burner, with
31:13
Speaker 1: a National Safe Haven Alliance, says situations like this should
31:17
Speaker 1: never happen, but it has. She counts this as the
31:20
Speaker 1: eighth child abandonment this year across America. It may have
31:25
Speaker 1: nothing to do with the mother's background, think about it.
31:30
Speaker 1: I remember one of the first cases that gained national
31:34
Speaker 1: notoriety in addition to all of suddrects with the so
31:38
Speaker 1: called prom mom, who I now understand is out of
31:41
Speaker 1: jail and is married with children. But there was the
31:45
Speaker 1: Amy Grossman case. She and her college sweetheart. She got
31:51
Speaker 1: pregnant with her by her college sweetheart. She had every
31:55
Speaker 1: advantage you can imagine, loving parents, middle to upper class
32:02
Speaker 1: family in college, the world before her. Knowing her choices,
32:08
Speaker 1: she and the boyfriend choose to kill the baby and
32:14
Speaker 1: throw it in a dumpster. Take a listen to our
32:17
Speaker 1: friends at Stories from the Grave podcast cut Sea, who
32:20
Speaker 1: were perfect teens high school sweethearts. Then she got pregnant,
32:25
Speaker 1: they got scared, and the baby ended up dead. The
32:29
Speaker 1: New Jersey teens both eighteen, Who's shocking baby dead and
32:34
Speaker 1: dumpster in Baby Slayer's story made headlines around the world.
32:38
Speaker 1: That was in nineteen ninety six. Amy delivered her baby
32:41
Speaker 1: boy in a comfort in motel in Newark, Delaware in November,
32:47
Speaker 1: assisted only by her then boyfriend Brian Pearson, who later
32:51
Speaker 1: threw the baby into a dumpster. In that case, the
32:55
Speaker 1: baby suffered severe skull fracturing. That's how the baby was
33:01
Speaker 1: killed by Brian Peterson, and they threw the baby in
33:05
Speaker 1: a dumpster. Very often you don't hear the name of
33:09
Speaker 1: the biodad. In that case, we know it was Brian Peterson.
33:13
Speaker 1: In the Connecticut case, I just mentioned to you a
33:16
Speaker 1: male abandoned the baby on the hood of a car.
33:20
Speaker 1: I wonder why that is, Doctor Bethany Marshall that we
33:25
Speaker 1: blame the mom, what the dad? The bio dad doesn't
33:28
Speaker 1: notice the girlfriend fiance a wife is pregnant and then
33:33
Speaker 1: doesn't question, Hey, where's the baby. I think that's a
33:36
Speaker 1: very interesting question, and I was wondering that with this
33:39
Speaker 1: case to where was the father. And in the two
33:42
Speaker 1: cases you mentioned where the baby had the skull fracture,
33:46
Speaker 1: the baby was left on the hood of the car.
33:49
Speaker 1: You have two people conspiring together to commit a crime.
33:53
Speaker 1: Just like any other crime where there's duos involved, whether
33:58
Speaker 1: it's the DC snipers case or you know, serial killers
34:02
Speaker 1: acting in concert, you have two people conspiring and making
34:06
Speaker 1: a plan together. And I think you know, as a society,
34:09
Speaker 1: we think that if a baby is born, it's primarily
34:12
Speaker 1: the mother's responsibility. This is the mother and the father's
34:16
Speaker 1: responsibility to nurture the child, raise the child. But to
34:21
Speaker 1: get around the fact that the mother apparently is the
34:25
Speaker 1: one that leaves the baby in the McDonald's. To Bianca Bono,
34:29
Speaker 1: a reporter with twelve News and Phoenix, what are police
34:32
Speaker 1: doing to find or other than I hope gathering surveillance video, Well,
34:37
Speaker 1: you know, they're they've interviewed people who were there at
34:39
Speaker 1: the McDonald and in the area, and they've actually put
34:42
Speaker 1: a call out to the public saying that there were
34:45
Speaker 1: more witnesses who were there at the scene when this happened,
34:48
Speaker 1: but they left prior to police officers arriving. So they're
34:52
Speaker 1: asking the public right now that if you were in
34:54
Speaker 1: that McDonald or you saw anything and you left before
34:57
Speaker 1: officers arrived, they're asking that you come forward and give
34:59
Speaker 1: it statement. Well, it's very difficult for me to believe
35:03
Speaker 1: again that with this surveillance, as finally taken as it is.
35:09
Speaker 1: You see her walking in to the McDonald's, and you
35:12
Speaker 1: know what's interesting, Bianca Bono, I don't see her carrying anything.
35:17
Speaker 1: That's right. You don't see her carrying anything throughout the
35:20
Speaker 1: entirety of the video. As I mentioned before, it's a
35:24
Speaker 1: pretty long video. You see her walk into that bathroom.
35:28
Speaker 1: She pulls at the door handle of first time and
35:31
Speaker 1: sees that the doors locked, so she comes back right
35:33
Speaker 1: past the camera, and an undetermined amount of time later
35:37
Speaker 1: she goes back when the doors opened up, and she
35:39
Speaker 1: goes inside, and then she comes back out. But at
35:42
Speaker 1: no point is she carrying anything in her hand. She
35:44
Speaker 1: would have to have had the baby concealed on her person.
35:48
Speaker 1: Catherine Marsh absolutely, and from what I've seen of the video,
35:52
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of places within her outfit to
35:55
Speaker 1: have the baby concealed either. You know, I've looked at it.
35:58
Speaker 1: The only way I see that it could have happened
36:01
Speaker 1: as if she had it concealed in the front of
36:03
Speaker 1: her shirt, because when she walks in, you see her
36:07
Speaker 1: back and her hair, her just below shoulder length hair.
36:11
Speaker 1: I'm looking at it right now. She's pulling on the door.
36:14
Speaker 1: She turns around like now what looks at the man's bathroom,
36:18
Speaker 1: and walks forward, and she is adjusting her shirt on
36:23
Speaker 1: her right side. You see her pulling at her shirt
36:26
Speaker 1: and then if she leaves holding the bottom of her
36:28
Speaker 1: T shirt in the front. Now she's coming back in,
36:33
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if she did not have the baby
36:36
Speaker 1: concealed in the front of her shirt somehow. What about that,
36:39
Speaker 1: Katherine Marsh That is completely a possibility. It could also
36:44
Speaker 1: be she was holding her baby because she was having
36:46
Speaker 1: contractions for labor and she was holding her stomach as
36:50
Speaker 1: she's going into the bathroom and then giving birth to
36:54
Speaker 1: the child. Bianca Bono, it doesn't look like she's pregnant
36:57
Speaker 1: when she walks in. Was I don't know if any
37:01
Speaker 1: report that there was blood in the bathroom at the
37:04
Speaker 1: umbilical cord had been cut. Well, she's not in the
37:07
Speaker 1: bathroom very long at all, certainly not a time to
37:11
Speaker 1: give birth and the video makes it a bit unclear
37:13
Speaker 1: to have a sense of time because there are no
37:16
Speaker 1: timestamps on the video, and they're very well could have
37:19
Speaker 1: been more of a scene in that bathroom. Police just
37:23
Speaker 1: have chosen not to make those details public at this time.
37:26
Speaker 1: Straight back to doctor Bethany Marshall, Doctor Bethany, why Nancy
37:31
Speaker 1: contempt towards the child, hatred towards to the child, Fear
37:36
Speaker 1: that a child is going to interfere with an idealized life,
37:40
Speaker 1: perhaps a new romantic partner where the mother thinks, boy,
37:43
Speaker 1: if I have a baby, he's not going to love me.
37:46
Speaker 1: Big dreams, big plans for one's own life. Lack of
37:50
Speaker 1: a capacity to imagine into the life of the infant,
37:54
Speaker 1: that that infant could go to school, could go to Harvard,
37:57
Speaker 1: a big job, could provide grandchildren, no imaginative capacity that
38:02
Speaker 1: this little being that is ruthlessly stuffed into a trash
38:07
Speaker 1: can is a person who could be on roller scapes,
38:10
Speaker 1: who could blow out birthday candles. The reason I'm painting
38:13
Speaker 1: this picture for your listeners is that this picture does
38:18
Speaker 1: not reside in the mind of the mother. Think about
38:21
Speaker 1: when you were pregnant with the twins. Nancy didn't you
38:24
Speaker 1: have hopes and dreams? Didn't you think about every stage
38:28
Speaker 1: of their life? Don't you think I'm sure today you're
38:32
Speaker 1: going to be thinking about what Lucy and John David
38:34
Speaker 1: have coming, what they have for their summer plans, what
38:37
Speaker 1: you did on spring break. They are in the mind
38:42
Speaker 1: of their mother. And in my field, we think one
38:45
Speaker 1: of the biggest catastrophes is when a person is born
38:49
Speaker 1: and they do not reside in the mind of the mother.
38:51
Speaker 1: Nobody thinks about them. And this is really the catastrophe
38:56
Speaker 1: that we're talking about today. Is not just homicide, it's
38:59
Speaker 1: not just murder. Those are terrible things. We talk about
39:02
Speaker 1: crime all the time, but something many of your viewers
39:05
Speaker 1: suffer from is that they may have been born into
39:08
Speaker 1: the world with nobody thinking about them. And that is
39:11
Speaker 1: so essential to being human and being alive, and that's
39:14
Speaker 1: what's absent in a catastrophic way. Here. The search is
39:18
Speaker 1: on for the woman that police believe killed a kneeborn baby,
39:25
Speaker 1: leaving it it's dead body in a busy McDonald's. If
39:31
Speaker 1: you have information for eight zero witness w I n
39:37
Speaker 1: SS We wait as justice unfolds, and let me remind
39:42
Speaker 1: everyone we don't know if this mother regrets the deed,
39:47
Speaker 1: but the law is clear. One may immediately regret the deed,
39:52
Speaker 1: but that does not negate and tip at the time
39:56
Speaker 1: of the crime. Good by the