Latest / Wellness, Actually with Emily Oster & Perry Wilson, MD / What's the deal with peptides?

Transcript

What's the deal with peptides? · Wellness, Actually with Emily Oster & Perry Wilson, MD

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: There's a new peptide that literally burns fat off of
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: your body.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: At the same time it suppresses your owner.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: Peptides are one of the best ingredients you can use
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: for anti aging.
• 0:09
  Speaker 4: Do not sleep on peptides.
• 0:11
  Speaker 5: Peptides are the eight Girl of the year, and for
• 0:13
  Speaker 5: good reason.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Well that's the thing about peptides. To the wolverine stack,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know. If you ever get injured, get immediately
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: on BP one, five, seven, and TV five might.
• 0:20
  Speaker 6: Help you improve your God, help the tone, texture of
• 0:23
  Speaker 6: your use fine lines and ring, possibly restore your where's
• 0:26
  Speaker 6: your natural growth? One?
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: So there's truly a peptide for everything.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Emily, are we in over our heads here?
• 0:32
  Speaker 5: Maybe a little bit? How many peptides did you have
• 0:35
  Speaker 5: this morning?
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Are you ready?
• 0:36
  Speaker 4: Well?
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: I've had thirty, but it's clearly not enough. It's not enough.
• 0:41
  Speaker 5: Did you have your CJC twelve ninety five?
• 0:44
  Speaker 7: Oh?
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: You know what, that's the problem, because that's the one
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: I still have my existential sense of dread, and I'm
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: pretty sure that's the key to eliminate that.
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: I'm Emily Astro, I'm an economist and a data expert, and.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I'm very Wilson. I'm a medical doctor.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: It's Thursday, February nineteenth, twenty twenty six, and this is wellness.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Actually, because you're getting a staggering amount of health and
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: wellness information nowadays from every source imaginable, and some of
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: it is awesome and some.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: Of it is well actually both Fortunately we are both
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: people who know how to read studies, how to parse
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: the data, and can tell you what's worth thinking about
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: and what you can safely ignore.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: But before we dig in, a note that this podcast
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: is for educational purposes and should not be construed as
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: medical advice. We don't know your unique situation, so talk
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: to your doctor for personal health decisions.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: This week we're asking what's the deal with peptides, and
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: then we'll get to your question of the week. But
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: first let's do the health news roundup after the break.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Hey, just a quick note from the future here. The
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: following conversation about mRNA flu vaccines was recorded before the
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: FDA reversed their stance. That's good news for everyone, as
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: you'll soon understand why, but bad news for our producer Tamar,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: who had to add this cavea at the eleventh hour.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: This is what keeping up with the news looks like,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: and I think as you'll see the mere idea that
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: something is being discussed on the wellness actually podcast has
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: the effect of moving policy on a national scale.
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: All right, Perry, So, first piece of health news for
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: the week is Maderna has a Phase three trial of
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: an mRNA flu vaccine, but the FDA has declined to.
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: Review their results.
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: There's been a lot of talk about this. I think
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: it's pretty confusing for a lot of people.
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: Perry.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: Can you break down what is going on, why people
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: are upset? Where we go from here?
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, to be honest, this is pretty weird,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: this is unusual. So why do we need an mRNA
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: flu vaccine? I mean the argument here is that our
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: traditional flu vaccines, which are those egg based vaccines, take
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: about six months to make, and that means you're always
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: sort of trying to like stay ahead of the flu
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: the flu eight ball, right, like, you start guessing what
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: the flu strains are going to be in the future
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: to grow up your vaccines. mRNA flu vaccine in theory,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: can get spun up in a couple of weeks. That's
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: the benefit of mRNA technology. You could potentially even like
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: in real time, keep up with the flu strains. That
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: are coming out, so there's definitely a reason to do
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: this kind of study, even though we have existing flu vaccines.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: This vaccine that Maderna put out, they had published already
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: several studies about seven thousand patients each demonstrating safety. But
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: this forty one thousand patient trial was for efficacy. Does
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: it prevent the flu compared to not a placebo but
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: the current active flu vaccine, one of these egg based vaccines,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: and in fact, the rates of flu were significantly lower
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: with the Maderna vaccine. They submit that data to the FDA,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: and in theory, an FDA advisory panel will review it,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: assess it for safety and efficacy, make a ruling that
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: the FDA then decides on. This did not happen. The
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: head of the Vaccine Division essentially of the FDA, guy
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: named Na Prosad, apparently according to New York Times, unilaterally
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: decided not to review this data at all, so not
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: to bring it to the peer review group in the
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: first place. His rationale was that the dose of the
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: normal vaccine they gave was not high enough for older
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: people who's who do better with a higher dose, so
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: it was like not a good enough comparators. The argument.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Here's the problem. If you're a big pharmaceutical company, generally
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: you go to the FDA and this is what Madarna
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: did before you do the trial, and you say, hey,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: here's our design, here's our control group, here's our analysis.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Are you okay with this? Because you don't want to
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: spend two hundred and fifty million dollars if the FDA
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: is going to say they're not okay with this, right,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: So they did that. They went to the FDA. The
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: FDA said, sure, run your trial. You know, this looks
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: like a good design. And now apparently one person, although
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: obviously who knows what's going on, has after the fact
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: been like, no, you know, moving the goalpost. This is
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: like sort of classic Lucy picking up the football situation.
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it is important to hit on the
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: top point of like why we would want this vaccine,
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: And I actually think it's particularly interesting in the context
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: of this most recent flu season where the flu vaccine
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: was very poorly matched to the circulating flu strain because
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: they guessed what the circulating strain would be six.
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: Months out and they were not right.
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: And the promise of the mRNA version of this is
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: you wouldn't have to guess six months out, you could
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: guess a month out or two months out, and you
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: might get much closer. And so I think there's a
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: lot of value here making the fact that now it
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: seems like this just won't happen both objectively bad. In
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: addition to this process seeming like this definitely isn't the
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: process that we would like, we're already starting to see
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: companies talk about, you know what I want to do
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: vaccine innovation now if there's no way it's going.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: To mRNA innovation in general. And you know, m r
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: and A technology is not just for vaccines. There's there's
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: m RNA anti cancer therapies and stuff that are getting
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: held up by this, and it does feel somewhat ideological.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: I think all people are asking is like, just do
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: the normal process, like just submit the data for the
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: standard peer review that every other drug gets through. That
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: it's not happening.
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: It is a holdover from COVID.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: All of society has long COVID. Right now, basically, all right,
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: let's stick with the FDA. Emily, maybe some better news.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I'm curious what you thought of this. The FDA had
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: removed some warnings that appear on hormone replacement therapies for
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: women who are perimenopausal or postmenopausal. In the past, those
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: medications had warnings on them that they could increase the
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: risk of cardiovascular disease, breast cancer, or dementia. Those warnings
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: are now removed. Good bad.
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: I think this is great news.
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, so hormone replacement therapy is really beneficial for
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: a lot of people in perimenopause and in menopause. It
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: can improve just quality of life tremendously lower symptoms which
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: can be really debilitating. There was a large trial decades
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: ago which suggested that there could be some risks from
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: hormone replacement therapy, but as people have better understood that
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: data and gotten follow up data, it has seemed pretty
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: clear that the risks that were identified in that trial,
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: which were mostly about cancer, in fact, are not things
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: that we should be concerned about for the vast majority
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: of people who would be treated with these medications, and
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: so we've kind of overtime clawed back towards a view
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: that actually HRT should be prescribed more that can be
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: very beneficial, and the removal of these boxed warnings is
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: the sort of the next step in that. So My
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: hope is that this will encourage more people who could
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: benefit from these therapies to be on them. So I
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: thought this was a response to evidence, and a good
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: one at that are so.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Good the FDA gets it right from time to time.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I want to move on to a bit of happier
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: news something. You know, I've seen this story before, but man,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I always love it. The Olympic village condom situation. So
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: the New York Times reported that the Winter Olympics village
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: in Italy they ran out of ten thousand condoms within
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: three days. To put that in perspective, there are about
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: three thousand athletes in the Games. That's a lot of condoms.
• 8:45
  Speaker 8: A lot.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I just have to say. It must be fun to
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: be in like the best shape of your life.
• 8:49
  Speaker 5: And in Italy, I agree, I mean I do.
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: I did wonder whether there was a condom hoarding issue, right,
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: So you know, my guess is that people mostly before
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: their events are kind of like laying low, but maybe
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: they're picking up a bunch of condoms for like after
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: the event, and.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Oh do you think and they've got that like overly
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: ambitious like I'm gonna need twenty.
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: What if I get a gold medal.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna need a lot of condoms for all of
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: the demand that's going to be coming in after my medal.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: So I was debating this with some people. You think
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: that you are outspeaks somewhat euphemistically. You think you are
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: not using the condoms before your event.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Don't.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: And I'm wondering if there's some events, like maybe biathlon
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: or like some of the precision events, where you should
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: be using the condoms more beforehand.
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: It's an interesting thing.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I I in my mind, I have the endurance
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: events where I do think you probably don't want to
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: be using the condoms before, but.
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: I maybe the precision maybe like curling hills.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: You out curling, yes, curly really clearly curling would benefit
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: from a pre condom preuse.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: There you go, curlers, let us know. Hit us up.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: We want to know what your strategy is.
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: I really, really really do.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: That's it for the health news of the week. Next up, peptides,
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: but first.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: A break, Welcome back to wellness. Actually, so, what's the
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: deal with peptides? Emily? This is like a big topic.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: There's so much talk about this on social media. It's
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: nearly overwhelming.
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: I was waiting for the airplane yesterday for a flight home,
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: and I opened up my Instagram and the first thing
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: I saw was someone who had two side by side
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: pictures of her face, and it was like, it was like,
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: this is what happens after twelve weeks on peptides, and
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: she looked better. I mean, I don't know that that
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: particular person. I have a lot of issues, but the
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: point is that you cannot open social media without hearing
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: about peptides. I would like us to start this by
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: just demystifying a little bit, you know. When I think
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: about peptides the thing, at least before I did some
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: more research for this episode, the first thing that often
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: comes into my head is Demimore in the substance, you know,
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: where she takes something and then she like turns into
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: a different person and then slowly decays over time. I
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: don't think that's what it is, but my concern is
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: that for many people, we're close to that in our
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: understanding of peptides is just this seems like a crazy
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: thing with a lot of crazy names that people are
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: yelling about on Reddit.
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: So can you just like anchor us in the biology
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: of what is this?
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it does not make hot young women pop
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: out of your back, at least not yet.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: We haven't rounds of peptide for that is my guess.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about that. Okay, So the first thing you
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: have to know is what a protein is. So protein
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: is the building blocks of our bodies. And protein are
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: composed of little building blocks which are called amino acid.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: There's about twenty that humans use in our proteins, and
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: they're all different, but they all stick together, just like
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: lego blocks all do. Right. They have one end and
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: the other and they kind of fit together. And you
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: can take those twenty amino acids and combine them and
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: any combinations that you want to make various proteins. Now,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: proteins can have, you know, thousands of amino acids. They
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: can be very very complicated. Peptides are little pieces of proteins,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: and the definitions vary, but most people say that peptides
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: are somewhere south of fifty amino acids. So you're talking
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: much much smaller than a protein, but you're still using
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: those same twenty amino acids. And just to explain why
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Reddit and Instagram like has an explosion of all these
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: things with you know, these crazy names and numbers attached
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: to them. If you want to do the math. Okay,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: if you have twenty amino acids that you can combine
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: into a chain of fifty, the possible combinations, and I
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: had to get out my scientific calculator for this, the
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: number of different peptides you could create is the same
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: roughly as the number of atoms in every star in
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: our galaxy. Okay, there is a nearly infinite possibility of
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: the number of peptides that are out there.
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: Okay, so we've got these peptides, potentially an infinite number
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: of them. But I think that the question is why
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: would having more.
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: Of some peptide.
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: I understand, we have amino acids, they make peptides, they
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: make proteins.
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: We need those.
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: Why would supplementing myself with some peptides have any impact
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: at all on anything?
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Oh? Sure, Well, so peptides. You know, if you have
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: a chain of amino acids, what's going to happen is
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: they're going to fold into like some kind of shit
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: based on their chemical nature. So these are not like
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: a long stack that's just aligne based on what the
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: amino acids are. They kind of fold and shape into
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: like little globby shapes, which is how your body signals
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: to do stuff in a lot of ways. So there
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: are receptors for different shapes on your cells, and different
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: peptides at least purportedly will stimulate certain receptors, and those
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: receptors tell your cells what to do. So it's almost like,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: you know, you can imagine a key and lock analogy
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: or something. You have these locks on your cells and
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: you're trying to inject something that's going to form the
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: key to open the lock. That's the theory at least.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: And a lot of these peptides, while based on proteins
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: that you can ingest or that exist in your body,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: not all of them are you know, some of them
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: come from animals, some of them are completely synthetic.
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: And so the ideas if I had more of some
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: of these peptides, I could encourage my cells to do
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: more of something that I want. So I think a
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: good example that probably anchors for people is the glp
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: ones are peptides.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, classic, so.
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: Smaglutide, t receepetite, these like things that people are taking
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: for weight loss. Those are peptides They are injected and
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: then they are encouraging something that then causes you to
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: be less hungry and have all kinds of other impacts.
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: But it's just a it's just a peptide to try
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: to get your body to do more of something which
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: it might do otherwise, but you.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Want more of it exactly. And just to give a
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: sense of like the diversity of peptides, I've told you
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: there's infinite, but because the shape is really what dictates
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: the function of molecules in your body. Here's some other examples.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: So glp ones you said, aspartame the artificial sweetener, okay,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: like in diet z. Yeah, I'm not sure which one
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: is in Die Cooke, but yes, like you know the
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: one that people actually a lot of wellness influencers are
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: worried about aspartain is a peptide. It's two amino acids
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: stuck together. They just happen to make a shape that
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: stimulates the sugar receptor on your tongue. So it just
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: like makes you think it's sweet, but it's not. It's
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: just a peptide. B venom for example, the maion protein
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: and b venom is called meltin and that's a peptide.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: So that can be something that really hurts when you
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: inject at for example, right, and so one of my concerns,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: and actually i'd like to play you a clip, is
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: people suggesting that peptides are really safe because of their
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: sort of nature of being something like a protein. So
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: take a listen to this.
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: Peptides are sequences of amino acids. And why is that important?
• 16:35
  Speaker 6: Because your body recognizes these, it can break them down.
• 16:39
  Speaker 6: They're called metabolites, and it can get rid of the waste.
• 16:42
  Speaker 6: When we put chemicals, synthetics, and pharmaceuticals into our body,
• 16:45
  Speaker 6: there's no natural way for our body to break them
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: down and get rid of them.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: So emily here we have you know, someone be like, hey,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: these are just amino acids, Like your body knows what
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: to do, that therefore safe. What do you think.
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: That doesn't sound right to me?
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think you know there the fact that
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: something is naturally occurring in the world and is an
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: amino acid definitely does not mean that it is safe.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: It clearly doesn't. Right, Like snake venom has peptides in it, right,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: There's lots of things. But I think people one of
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: the reasons that peptides are exploding, and actually one of
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: the regulatory reasons you can get your hands on these
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: things even is because of this idea that like, well,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: they're just made of amino acids after all.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: Right, all right, so let's talk about whether these actually
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: matter for anything.
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: And I actually want to start with a place where.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: I think the evidence is the best, which is in
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: the space of collagen. So I hear people talk about
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: collagen peptides both for your face and for your joint health.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: So this comes up actually a lot in endurance sports.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: People talk about, you know, you like, I need my
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: joints to not be so elderly and creaky, and so
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: I should take these collagen peptides in a lot of
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: endurance sports drinks.
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: It's a thing.
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: And so my sense is that the evidence on this
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: is at least reasonably good in the.
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: Case of your skin.
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: So we have some meta analyzes of trials in which
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: you know, using collagen peptides, typically in a kind of
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: topical way, can have significant improvements in your skin hydration
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: and elasticity. Now, okay, in that particular meta analysis, there
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: was there was a subtlety, which is that when you
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: only looked at studies that were not sponsored by industry,
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: the effects were not there so capitalism. But I'm curious
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: whether you, like, if you were interested in improving your
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: already lovely skin elasticity, would you use a collagen peptide.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, maybe I don't care that much about it,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: but you know whatever, I'm a I'm a forty six
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: year old man, so I know that there are some
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: there's some different opinions here. I mean. The interesting thing
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: aboutologen peptides is that they're basically the only peptide to
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: exist in a regulatory landscape that makes it easy and
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: safe to get because the FDA has recognized that collagen
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: itself is safe. They call it generally recognized as safe,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: which means you can be a supplement company and you
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: can put collagen in a pill and you can give
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: it to people. Collagen peptides all it is is they
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: take collagen and they digest it with an enzyme. So
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: collagen is a big protein with you know, thousands, literally
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: thousands of amino acids, and then they just digest it
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: down into kind of manageable pieces, very similar honestly to
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: what your digestive system does when you eat a big protein.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: But that said, the collagen peptides are because they're smaller,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: absorbed through the skin, a little bit better, absorbed through
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: the GI tract a little bit better, and you're delivering
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: in that sense, you're delivering some of these proteins, some
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: of these constituents of the stuff that makes your skin,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: you know, firm and elastic, directly to the site that
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: you want them to be delivered. And to me, that
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: seems fine. You know, this is one of those things
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I tell people Listen, it's not terribly expensive. If you
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: feel like trying to try it, you know, try to
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: be honest with yourself if you think you really look
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: better if you don't, save your money.
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: Yes, save your money.
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: Perhaps good advice in general in everything we hear about
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: on social media. So beyond collagen, I think there are
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: actually a couple of other things where a couple of
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: other FDA approved peptides which treat actually.
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: Someone unusual things. So one of them is for.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: Tanning and one is for improving female sexual desires.
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: I get that right, sort of.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the one for tanning called Atha melanotide. It's not
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: FD approved to get you tan. It does, but it
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: does get you tan. It's approved for a very rare
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: condition called erythropoetic proto porphyria, very few people have, but
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: it does stimulate the melanin receptor, which is what makes
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: you tan, and so people who receive this drug do
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: get tan. And it's worth thinking about just because there
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: is a pathway for peptides to go through the same
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: approval process that every other drug has to go through,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: the same purity standards, the same testing, the same manufacturing practices,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: and they can do really interesting things like it's true
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: at the female hyperactive sexual desire disorder, which emily this
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: we definitely need to do a whole show about this
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: because it's fascinating. That's a peptide product called vleisi which
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: was approved to treat this condition. It does apparently increase
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: sexual desire in women. It also causes nausea in forty
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: percent of people who take it, which I don't know
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: how those two things are compatible, but apparently they are.
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: Well, you don't know, it could be the sixty percent
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: of people who are not nauseous. You know, it's straight
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: up fair enough.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's your flipping an interesting coin there, And of
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: course we should. You mentioned already the GLP one receptors
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: aretides and insulin, which is you know, maybe saved more
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: lives than any other injectable drug that we've ever created.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Is also a peptide product. So there is a pathway.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: But I think there's a lot of people who are
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: trying to kind of jump that evidence gun and potentially
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: taking on more risk than they know that they are
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: taking on.
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: What about the evidence on joint pain, Most of this
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: evidence is in athletes, some of it's in older people.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's there, it's there. I mean, so we do
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: have another meta analysis, and for everyone, a meta analysis
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: is just a study of studies. So it's a study
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: that aggregates data from multiple other studies that have been
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: done to try to kind of average out the variability
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: and things like that. There was some evidence in this
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: meta analysis of fifteen randomized trials of collagen peptides for
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: joint pain, twelve of which were in athletes that showed
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: some improvement in joint pain, that there was really no
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: evidence for muscle building, which is the other thing that
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: people sometimes suggest this being u used for. Again, one
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: of the problems we have when the outcome of a
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: trial is subjective, like pain or fatigue or even depression.
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: How your skin looks.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: How your skin looks is that it is very susceptible
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: to what we call placebo effects, like the idea that
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: you're taking something. Now randomized control trial is going to
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: have placebo controls. But just even because you have a
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: placebo doesn't mean people can't figure out what they're getting.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they taste a little bit different, they look a
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: little bit different, things like that. So you know, again
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: for joint pain, it's like it's relatively safe, it's not
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: going to hurt you. It's they're non toxic. If it helps,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: that's great. I mean, I don't even care if it's
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: a placebo, right Like, if it helps, and then feel
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: like it helps, you feel like it helps, it helps,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: go for it.
• 23:49
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: I mean this is an example of a place where
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: I think we sort of bring together, like often what
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: we're looking for, and we try to argue for causality
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: the question of like is it biologically plausible? I think
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: the answer in the collagen peptide case is yeah, it's
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: biologically plausible that.
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: You know, this could have some this could make some difference.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: And then we're looking for, you know, do we have evidence,
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: either randomized evidence or even observational evidence. But here it's
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: randomized that suggests that we do see some impacts.
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: I will say I take away from this like this
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: is small.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there are many other things one might do to
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: address joint pain, like strength training and other things where
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: collagen could be like a little helpful, but.
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: Is probably not the be all and end all.
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: And sort of similarly, my guess is the overall variation
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: in skin elasticity across people is much greater than the
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: treatment effect of a collagen peptide. Like when you see
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: someone on the Internet and their skin is amazing and
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: they tell you they took collagen, I'm telling you it's
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: that they have good genetics and or are using a filter,
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: not that they are taking collagen and.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Are really good at makeup. When I was looking at
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: all the peptide stuff on Instagram and things, these videos,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: all I was like, oh my god, these people are
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: just beautiful. Like that's the that is the requirement. Apparently
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: to be an influencer is to like look really good
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: on camera, you know, which is why I'm glad this
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: is an audio podcast. No one has to look at
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: my unfiltered face.
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: Everyone will love it.
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: Okay, so let's talk about the sort of third piece
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: of the peptide conversation, which is the idea of using
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: injected peptides for like longevity, wound healing.
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: And this is a much.
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: Bigger space than the narrow like I'm taking some mythologen
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: to improve my face. It's like, you know BPC one
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: fifty set. It's there's a thing called the wolverine stack. Basically, Perry,
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: there's a thing called the wolverine stack. And I guess
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: do we want it?
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: Say more?
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, Emily, let's take it from the highest authority
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: in the land, Joe Rogan himself.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing about peptides to the wolverine stack.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: BP one five seven and TV five hundred.
• 26:09
  Speaker 7: I don't know.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: If you ever get injured, if you ever get injured,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: get immediately on BP one five seven and TV five hundred.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: I didn't hear about TV five hundred.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: What's that one thymuson BETA five hundred. Yes, in conjunction
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: with BPC one five to seven, it is a phenomenal
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: stack and just really helps injured.
• 26:25
  Speaker 8: I don't know.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: They called it the wolverine that's.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: What they call it. The wolverine staling. Yeah, because you
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: heal incredibly well, like you like quickly, I was talking
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: to pro football player pulled his hamstring. It's like, dude,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I shot that right into my hamstring for two weeks
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: and I was right back on the field. Wow, I
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: was like, that's nuts.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: So, first of all, Joe Rogan, Ben Affleck, Matt Damon
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: in that clip, I mean, we are really blowing against
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: the wind. I mean, I don't know that we can compete.
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: No, totally not. I mean that, yeah, all right, but.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Let's let's let's I think BPC one fifty seven because
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: of Joe Rogan honestly, and the Wolverine stack is BPC
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: one fifty seven combined with TB five hundred, which is
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: another injectable peptide. I think it's really emblematic of the space.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: And so no, we are not. I have to apologize
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: to our listeners. There are like hundreds and hundreds of
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: marketed peptides out there. We just simply can't get to
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: all of them and like whether they work and how
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: they work. But I think there's some real big principles
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: here that BPC one fifty seven sort of teaches us.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: So let's start there and kind of kind of walk
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: through it totally so BPC one fifty seven, this is
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: a peptide that was initially isolated from human gastric juices,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: which is weird, okay, but fine.
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: You know, as you said, you can get peptides from anywhere.
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: Why not from your ass rod juices?
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Sure? But you know, because it's being promoted for healing
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: and everything. You kind of I was like, oh, it
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: must have been isolated from like healing cells or something whatever,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: But you know, hey, the gastric mucosa is a hostile environment,
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: so so maybe there's some biologic plausibility there. The data
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: for BPC one fifty seven is essentially entirely in mice
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: and rats, So you injure a rat like use sever
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: This is cruel a little bit, but this is how scientific.
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: And rats and mice in is corol.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: So I know, so trigger warning for pet rat owners.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: They will like sever part of a rat's achilles tendon
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: and then you know, they either inject this stuff or
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: they inject a placebo and then they see how fast
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: the achilles tendon heels. And some of those studies and
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: mice and rats do show accelerated healing with PPC one
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: fifty seven.
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: Okay, I just want to pause on the question of
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: mice and rat studies because I feel like a tremendous
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: amount of the data that we have in the world
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: about all kinds of different treatments come from mice and rats.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: Because mice and rats are really easy to experiment on.
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: You can do all kinds of stuff with them, like
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: cut their achilles and do other things, and look in
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: their brains and kill them and do all kinds of
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: things which may be said but are effective for learning.
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: And we always then have the question of how do
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: we take the evidence from mice and rats into humans.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: And you know, there there I think are really good learnings.
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: But someone said to me the other day, you know,
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: if we were mice, we would have solved like everything,
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: because actually in mice, you know, you can really titrate
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: and be careful, and there's a lot of things that
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: work in mice. But then when we bring them into humans,
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: it doesn't work, or the effect size is totally different,
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: or just this doesn't port over.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're just not the same creatures. But there's even
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: bigger issues than that, particularly when it comes to the
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: longevity space, because mice and rats don't live as long
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: as people in their natural states. You know, mice might
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: live a year or two, rats might live a little
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: bit longer. But you know what, in these research studies,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: they're not letting these mice live to a ripe old age, right.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: What you do is, you know, you do your little
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Achilles tendon thing, and then you watch them for a
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: couple of weeks as they heal, and then you the
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: euphemism is sacrifice the mice. You know, humanly, that's the euphemism.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: That's the euphemism is sacrifice. You kill the mice in
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: as humane way as possible, and there are protocols for that.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: And then and then you know, you can extract their
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: organs and look them under the microscoop and do all
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: that stuff. So even if we're like, oh, yeah, this
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: appears to heal Achilles tendons, the larger scale questions of
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: like what happens if you're doing this repeatedly on a
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: weekly basis for years and years and years, like, we're
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: not even close to knowing that, And there are some
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: concerns here. So BPC one fifty seven. Thanks to the mice,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: we know a little bit about how it might work.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Aside from the general magic of being a gastric juice
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: peptide BPC one fifty seven appears to bind a receptor
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: called VEJEFF, or vascular endothelial growth growth factor, which promotes
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: the growth of blood vessels into tissues. And sure that
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: makes sense. If you're talking about healing, you want a
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: lot of blood flow, Like, that's no doubt a good thing.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: One of the problems. Actually, you probably can guess the
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: problem memory, what's wrong if we promote blood vessel growth
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: into tissues too much?
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: I actually I feel like this is like when my
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: fourteen year old asked me about her biology homework, and
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: I feel like, no, I don't know.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Cancer is begging for blood vessels to come into the tumors,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: and one of our main therapies to treat cancer is
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: blocking VEJEF because it turns off that signal that the
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: cancer saying like, ooh, give me blood, grow blood vessels
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: into me, and then the cancer starves and dies. And
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: so there is a theoretical concern that's, you know, ongoing
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: stimulation of receptors like this could lead to cancer. And
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: we have no idea if that's true, because you kill
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: the mouse, you know, a week after you give the injection.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: So just something to be aware of there.
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: When we look at this particular thing in people, I
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: would say my read is that, like, we don't have
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: much evidence in any direction that this is effective in people.
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: We don't have any randomized control trials, we don't have
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: a lot of just we just don't have anything.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Correct, only anecdote, which is unfortunately the problem.
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, anecdote is not data. I mean, this whole space,
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: this Wolverine stack, all of the other stacks.
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: The different things, really has the feel of like there's
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: an interesting potential something to explore based on the animal data,
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: but nothing in the people data that would say they
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: should be widely adopted based on efficacy foundation. And then
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: we are worried about, you know, some of the potential
• 32:38
  Speaker 5: risks to using such a treatment.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Absolutely right, and I think that's the prudent point. But
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: we also have to realize that a there are a
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: lot of people out there that are potentially suffering with something,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: and a lot of times the medical establishment that I
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: am a part of does a poor job of this. Right,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: They've got joint pain, they have something, you know, yes, sure,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: they were told to do physical therapy, they're told to
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: do strength training and things just aren't working. So there's
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: a desperation there, like this does fulfill a need that
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: I think some people have. And then there's a whole
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: group of people, you know, the kind of biohackers who
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: are like, yeah, yeah, I understand in theory that we
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: would like to have a large, randomized trial to prove
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: that this works, but I'm not going to wait for that.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Like this stuff seems great. My buddy says it's great.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: This guy online says it's perfectly safe, you know, LFG Like,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: let's go, and I'll sort of throw caution to the wind.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: And I think as much as we can say, like, well, guys,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know, there's no hard data. It's it's still
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: going to happen. And so I think, anticipating that this
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: stuff is out there, we might want to try to
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: give people some like tools to be able to separate
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: at least what is potentially safe from what is potentially
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: not safe, even if we throw evidence out the window.
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so I want to start with actually the just
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: noting that the Okay, so let's kind of back up
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: there the way we think about peptides. There are some
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: peptid that people take orally other than some of these
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: collagen peptides. Generally, oral peptides are totally ineffective because they
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: break down in your stomach and are not therefore absorbed.
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: So if somebody is telling you here are some gummies
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: with this amazing peptide, like that's just a money toilet,
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: Like you're just putting your money in a money toilet
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: and flushing it away, correct.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I think broadly, yes, there are ways to make peptides
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: more stable in the GI tract. Oral peptide consumption is
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: basically going to be safe, you know, even if you
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: are ingesting like b venom.
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: Because it's not effective. It's it's safe because it's useless.
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: Your stomach is eating it.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Correct, And so so I don't worry too much about people,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: you know, wasting their money on things. You know, I'm
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: a libertarian in that sense.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: No, I will say I worry about that because I
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: feel like, exactly to the point you had before, which is,
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: you know, people are struggling with this, they want to
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: get help, and then online someone's telling them, oh, just
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: take this gummy be venom and like it's going to
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: fix all of your of your problems. I actually think
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: that really gets in the way of people finding solutions
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: that might actually work for them. So I am more
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: worried than you are about the kind of I'm buying
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: this unapproved thing that somebody on TikTok told me about,
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: even if it is not actually unsafe, although I agree
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: with you, it's worse if there's a potential safety risk.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, the trick here is being honest with
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: yourself and really trying to determine whether this thing that
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: you tried, if you're going to try it, helped you
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: or not, Like is your life better or not? Is
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: it worth the expense or not? We think I agree
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: with you it probably isn't most of the time, Okay.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: But then there are these products that you're injecting.
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: So most of these peptides.
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: Would be delivered to the extent they could be efficacious
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: at all. They are delivered through an injection like a
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: JLP one, But these, unlike the GLP ones, are not
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: in an FDA approved product category. So generally the FDA
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: does not approve these peptides, which are made by compounding
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: pharmacies and are not regulated because the FDA has actually
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: now said they are illegal to compound. That includes this
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: BPC one fifty seven and all of these other ones,
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: and so if you're getting these, they are not from
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: an FDA proof supplier.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: I think this is such an important point, and I
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: want to play a clip here about someone who's trying
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: to talk about safe sourcing of peptides.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: So today you and I are going to have a
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: little chit chat about where you're getting your peptides from.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: There are a couple different ways that you can get
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: your hands on peptides. One is going to your doctor
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: and getting a pharmaceutical prescription for its option number two
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: compound pharmacy. But there are two split offs that come
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: up when we talk about compound pharmacies. So one is
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: going to be pharmaceutical grade, human grade, made for human beings.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: The other is research grade. This is the one that
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: I am telling my clients to stay away from. There's
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: not the same amount of oversight.
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: We don't have their party.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: So I really do think because you know, if you're
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: listening this and you're like, well, I don't know, Joe
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Rogan says, BPC one fifty seven is good, Like I
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: want to get some my hands on some BPC one
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: fifty seven. It is important to know what the regulatory
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: landscape is here. Compounding pharmacies are pharmacies that have a
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: license to mix drugs. That's what compounding is. They can
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: make their own concoctions under specific conditions, ideally sterile conditions
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: that they can then sell for injections and things like that.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Compounding pharmacies are regulated at the state, not the federal level,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: which gives this whole crazy patchwork of what's legal across
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: the country. And because you can ship these things from
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: state to state, it basically is like a lowest common
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: denominator of what the compounding pharmacy can do. Many of
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: the peptides that you'll see out there on Instagram are
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: able to be made in compounded pharmacies, but many of
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: the most popular ones, as you said, Emily, are not.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: So BPC one fifty seven, this Wolverine stack peptide out
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: of Joe Rogan fame was classified by the f as
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: a Category two substance, which is one that has significant
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: evidence for harm. And compounding pharmacies are not allowed to
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: synthesize or create anything that is Category two, where they
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: lose their license that's illegal. So if you're getting BPC
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: one fifty seven, you're actually not getting it from a
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: compounding pharmacy. You're getting it from overseas almost certainly, and
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: most of it comes from China. So again, BPC one
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: fifty seven, I think is like the poster child for
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: this set of problems. It's marketed aggressive. It's got a
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: I mean Wolverine stack like that is amazing, totally awesome,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: like I'm a superhero fan, like that is great marketing.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: It's got really impressive influencers talking out like two with that.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would do it. I would do it
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: if you show me. You've got these impressive influencers talking
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: about it. You have, you know, anecdotal evidence from anecdotal stories,
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: i should say, from people saying how great it is.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: But it's actually like deemed unsafe. You have to source
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: it from some external kind tree and we have no
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: idea what its actual effects are. And that's sort of
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: the space right now. It's like it's pretty much the
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: wild West, and when it comes to eating something, you know,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: I'm more experimental when it comes to injecting things into
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: your body, like you don't really want the wild West.
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, there are all kinds of examples in
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: the past of things.
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: That were injectable that turn on bad.
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: I was looking at this Scientific American article from a
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: number of years ago about stem cells where someone had
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: like injected some stem cells to try to fix some
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: eyelid problem and they ended up growing tiny bones in
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: their eyelid which need to be removed.
• 39:33
  Speaker 5: I'm not saying that's going to happen here.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: That is worse than the substance.
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: It is somewhat worse. I know you may not have
• 39:40
  Speaker 5: watched the substance.
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: It's pretty much, but I mean, I feel like there
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: is a general sense that injecting yourself with things it
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: runs a risk of infection, and it is just a
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: much more extreme approach to this than say eating something,
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: which again I don't think that sense in this context
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: for almost any of these peptons.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Let me give you two more risks of injecting things
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: into your body is if we don't have enough Number
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: one allergy. As you may know, when we eat things,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: we have this whole immune system in our gut that
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: surveils them for allergens and gives us tolerance to the
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: things we eat. This is why, like Emily, I'm sure
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: you've talked about it's actually good for little kids to
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: get kind of dirty and put dirt in their mouths
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that so that they have less hypothesis
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: allergic reactions. Right, that's what our gi TRAC does. When
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: we get what are called antigens, which are peptides or
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: proteins or other things via another route like the injection
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: or sometimes the inhalation route, a whole different immune reaction occurs,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: and that is an allergen forming immune reaction. It is
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: worth noting that the first time you get stung by
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: a bee is not when you have the anaphylactic response
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: to a beasting if you're allergic to bees, it's the
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: second time. The first time the allergy starts to get
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: learned and will up essentially, and then the second time
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: you get stung you have the anaphylactic shock. As I said,
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: there's infinite peptides you could theoretically inject into you, and
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: it is likely that some at the very least will
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: cause severe allergies in some people. To be aware of that.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Number two is what we call autoimmunity. So your immune
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: system is this amazing thing that surveils all the cells
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: in your body and decides is this me or is
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: this something else? And in general, if you're healthy, it
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: looks at your cells and says, oh, yeah, this is me.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: I don't need to attack this, this is myself. We're okay.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Autoimmunity is when the immune system starts to recognize something
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: in your own body that is you, but it doesn't
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: recognize it as you anymore, so it attacks it. And
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: you know, lupus, for example, is the prototypical like autoimmune
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: syndrome where your immune system is attacking these various cells
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: in your body. When you inject a protein into yourself,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: you form antibodies to that protein. That is how vaccines work.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: When we inject a covid vaccine, antibodies form against the
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: spike protein and that works because the spike protein is
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: not you, and so when the immune system sees the
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: spike protein again, it can attack that. Many of these
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: peptides are derived from human proteins, and if your immune
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: system starts to recognize those peptides as foreign, there's a
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: chance that they might start to attack your own proteins
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: that contain those peptides as foreign, and that could be
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: really bad. It could almost do the opposite of what
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: you want these things to do, right, because you want
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: these peptides to stimulate this system, and now all of
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: a sudden you have antibodies that are directly attacking the system.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: That could be an issue in the long term.
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: It does seem like an issue in the long term.
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: Okay, so Perry, I honestly feel like we could just
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: list all of these peptides that exist in the world
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: and just talk about why there's no evidence for them.
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: You know, there's TB five hundred, there's g hkcu. There
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: are a million of these peptides. And if we talked
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: about everyone speaking nearly all cases, what we would say was,
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe there's a little bit of suggestive something
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: in mice, and there's nothing to say in people. And
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: there are these risks of injecting yourself with random things,
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: which you want to be careful about. So I do
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: want to acknowledge the people who are listening, who are like,
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: I hear you about this, but it sounds good. I'm
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: interested in trying. And so if someone came you know,
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: you're doctor, somebody comes to you and they're like, look,
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: I'm really interested in trying to inject myself with a
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: bunch of different peptides. I just feel like it's like,
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: that's that's for me this week. Is there any way
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: to ameliorate some of the concerns that you have about
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: such activities?
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, so you know, you're probably not going
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: to get them from me directly because I don't think
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: the risk benefit calculus is there. But yeah, just to understand,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: let's accept the fact that people are going to do this, like,
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: you know, we cannot fight the tides.
• 44:00
  Speaker 5: The apple that comes to you and ask for some advice.
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: What's the advice?
• 44:02
  Speaker 8: All right?
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Ben? What was up with Geeli? Did you need to
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: do that?
• 44:06
  Speaker 7: Like?
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Was she pressure you? Okay? If you're going to do it, okay,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: realize that if someone tells you that they're getting some
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: of these peptides like GPC one fifty seven from a
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: compounding pharmacy, they're not. It's not legal, so it's coming
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: from outside of the US, So be a little skeptical of,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: you know, wherever you're getting them from if you are
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: getting there. And there are places that do a better
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: job of trying to be reputable in this space, and
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: what they do is they farm out the substance to
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: an independent testing laboratory, which issues what's called a certificate
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: of analysis, which basically says like, we tested the stuff
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: in here, and yes, it is what it says it is.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: The things you're looking for on a certificate of analysis.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Number one is purity. Is it actually you know? Is it?
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: Is it clean? Is it the stuff you want? You
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: want basically greater than ninety eight percent purity to feel comfortable.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Number two, you want testing for something called endotoxin. This
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: is a bacterial byproduct that causes sepsis and inflammation. You
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: do not want endotoxin in anything you inject into your body.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: It's also the thing that causes toxic shock syndrome. You
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: want heavy metal testing, so a lot of these that
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: have come from China and other countries are contaminated with
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: lead and other heavy metals, so you want the certificate
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: of analysis to demonstrate there's no heavy metals there. You
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: want sterility testing, so they've confirmed that it's sterile, it
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: doesn't contain bacteria or anything. And finally, you want to
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: check the certificate analysis, which should list the batch number
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: and the lot number against the one on the thing
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: you're injecting or else. Right, it could just be referring
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: to some other one that was tested years ago and
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: I know that sounds insane, and maybe that, more than
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: anything else, is going to convince people not to use
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: these things. But I do think if all of these
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: pieces are in place, you may be okay. I would
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: not recommend long term use, though, because we really just
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: don't know the effects, and I've got I am quite
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: concerned about allergy and autoimmunity with repeated dosing. All right,
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Emily talked a lot here. What's your one thing about peptides.
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: Don't inject something in yourself that's not FDA proved just
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: because it worked on a rat.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: That's a good thing.
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: What about you.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not ready to give up on this, but there's
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: some serious snake oil vibes here.
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: Fair enough?
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: All right, that's enough about peptides. Possibly too much, who knows.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: Stay tuned after the break for our listener mailbag.
• 46:34
  Speaker 8: Hi, Emily and Perry. This is Eric from Cambridge, Massachusetts.
• 46:38
  Speaker 8: I'm forty four to keep hearing about the so called
• 46:40
  Speaker 8: AMEDE click. You know, like in your mid forties, you
• 46:43
  Speaker 8: wake up one day and everything feels harder, Workouts just
• 46:46
  Speaker 8: don't work way creeps up, sleep gets weird, and recovery
• 46:51
  Speaker 8: just takes forever. Is this actually a thing or just
• 46:53
  Speaker 8: a mix of lifestyle changes, stress and not moving as
• 46:56
  Speaker 8: much as we used to. What's actually happening like hormonal
• 47:00
  Speaker 8: metabolically around the stage? Should I start wearing my pants
• 47:03
  Speaker 8: higher now?
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: All right? So as a forty six year old man, boy,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: does this question resonate with me? It's referring just so
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: everyone knows this forty four is referring to a study
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: that appeared in Nature Medicine of about one hundred people,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: if I'm remembering correctly, It across a range of ages,
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: and it measured hundreds and hundreds of things in their blood,
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: you know, DNA methylation and all these things that are
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: supposed to change with age. And what they were looking
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: for is like, is there a linear decline in any
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: of these things over time or in all of these
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: things over time? That was the expectation. What they actually
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: found was that there's kind of a linear decline over time,
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: and then a more abrupt decline at around age forty
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: four that then kind of levels out, and then another
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: abrupt decline at age sixty. And you know, this has
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: gotten sort of blown up to be like these are
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: the cliffs, like age forty four in age sixty. That's
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: the baseline. Emily's rolling her eyes. What's the truth, Emily?
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think there is almost nothing in biology
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: that falls off a cliff like this, like we have.
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: There are so many things where people quote them as
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: falling off a cliff. Your fertility falls off a cliff
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: at thirty five, this and that, like fundamentally that it's
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: not usually how biology works. This is also not, in
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: my view, a large enough sample size to like really
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: sort of definitively draw.
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: Some kind of cut off in this way.
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: So I guess for me, like my prior is everything
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: just gets worse slowly over time, and I'm not sure
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: I update very much on that prior. Based on this
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: fairly limited data, it is true that as we age,
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: everything gets worse slow decline.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: I have one other thought, okay, which is that this
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: is based on personal experience, that this is the age,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: like the mid forties, when our kids are kind of
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: old enough to fend for themselves a little bit more,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: and I like we all start kind of venturing out more.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Like I'm doing more activities. I'm like playing golf and
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: I'm lifting weights, which I didn't do before, and I'm like,
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: definitely injuring myself, and I wonder if it's just actually
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: the fact that like we're doing, we're actually doing a
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: little bit more than we would have used to. I
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is the age where all of the men
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: in my I am also forty six, and all of
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: the sort of men in my social group have decided
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: to like start playing soccer and lacrosse again. And like,
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: you know that somebody's like, I'm going to play lacrosse.
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: You know, the next time you see them, they're going
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: to have a broken foot, And it's just like really
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: really consistent exactly.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: That's the actual cliff.
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: I don't think that there is an age cliff in
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: this way, but the fact that as you age through
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: your mid forties things start to feel harder, like that's
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: that's true, and it's probably a time people have to
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: think more about, you know, how to prioritize their sleep
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: and so on.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: I do have a secret peptide that only I know
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: that stops the aging cliff, but you have to subscribe
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: to my like.
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: And subscribe, like and subscribe.
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: I had one mail bag follow up from last week
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: that I just I want for the purposes of being
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: honest with our listeners. So in last week's episode, the
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: question was asked, you know, what is something you do
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: that's not based on evidence? And I said, you know,
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: everything I do is based on evidence. And at dinner,
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: my husband, Hi Jesse, listen to it, and dinner was like,
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: I can't believe you said that. So much of what
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: you do is not based on evidence, and so I
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: just wanted to say that. I then started reflecting on
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: some of my behaviors, and I think he may be right. So,
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: for example, I'm having some sciatica and so I am
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: now routinely using a machine that like electrically stimulates the
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: gluten muscles to try to fix my saiatica. And I
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: do have to admit I don't think that's based on evidence.
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: So I apologize for not coming up with that last week.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: An immense amount of transparency and honesty from the Wellness
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Actually podcasts, separating us from all other people in this
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: space who never back down from anything they say.
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: Ever. All right, that's it for us for today.
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: Stick with us next week when we'll ask what's the
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: deal with cold plunges and saunas. Wellness Actually is produced
• 51:16
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• 51:20
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• 51:23
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• 51:26
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• 51:28
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• 51:33
  Speaker 2: podcatcher of choice, and help us spread the word about
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: the show. Don't give the TikTokers all the power, and
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: don't forget we want to hear from you. Head over
• 51:42
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• 51:44
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• 51:48
  Speaker 5: We'll let the influencers have the last word.
• 51:50
  Speaker 7: I've gotten a ton of questions about what a peptide
• 51:52
  Speaker 7: even is, so let me make this stupid simple. Peptides
• 51:56
  Speaker 7: are short chain amino acids. The fragments are protein. They're
• 51:59
  Speaker 7: not steroid or drugs or some fairy dust that some
• 52:01
  Speaker 7: influencer talks about. So imagine your body is like my
• 52:05
  Speaker 7: nine eleven turbos. Now imagine somebody handed you the upgrade file,
• 52:09
  Speaker 7: the tuning file that gets your car to use all
• 52:11
  Speaker 7: the stuff that it already has.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: But forgot was even there.
• 52:14
  Speaker 7: That's what a peptide is. It's not forcing anything and
• 52:17
  Speaker 7: saying hey, you know all this hidden horsepower.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, do that.
• 52:21
  Speaker 7: Peptides are like voice commands for your biology.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: They walk into the pit crew of your body and
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: they say, fire
• 52:27
  Speaker 8: Off the factory.