Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #880 Someone to Talk To

Transcript

#880 Someone to Talk To · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.
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  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for.
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  Speaker 1: The time poor parent who just wants answers.
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  Speaker 3: Now.
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  Speaker 1: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson. So delighted to.
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  Speaker 2: Have a special guest with me on the Happy Families
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  Speaker 2: Podcast today, Doctor Katrina Lions. Katrina is the CEO of
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  Speaker 2: Act for Kids, a charity that helps keep kids safe,
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  Speaker 2: heal from trauma, and lead happy lives. Katrina is also
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  Speaker 2: a registered psychologist. And the rest I'm talking with Katrina
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  Speaker 2: today is a recent survey that was conducted by Act
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  Speaker 2: for Kids caught my attention. I thought it was absolutely
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  Speaker 2: fascinating and it's something that every single.
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  Speaker 1: Parent needs to hear.
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  Speaker 2: The report or the campaign is called get Comfy Switching
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  Speaker 2: on by switching off, Doctor Lynes, So good to have
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  Speaker 2: you on the Happy Families Podcast. Thanks for joining me.
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  Speaker 2: What was the number one eye opening finding from this
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  Speaker 2: research that you did with Australian families.
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  Speaker 3: Australian children, Hi, Justin, were the most worrying?
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  Speaker 1: Was it?
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  Speaker 3: Forty percent of kids age fourteen to eighteen don't actually
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  Speaker 3: speak to anyone if they're worried, so they don't talk
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  Speaker 3: to anyone, which is really concerning.
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  Speaker 2: So when I hear you say that nearly half of
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  Speaker 2: kids who are in their mid to lateeens, they're just
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  Speaker 2: shutting the world out. I think of the sullen, cranky, withdrawn, terrified,
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  Speaker 2: worried teen who just goes into their room and stairs
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  Speaker 2: to screen, rather than engaging with life, engaging with parents,
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  Speaker 2: engaging with a school counsel or a teacher, a somebody
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  Speaker 2: that they can lean on. Am I getting that right?
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  Speaker 2: What are they doing if they're experiencing challenges in their
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  Speaker 2: life and they're not talking to somebody.
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  Speaker 3: Well, that they don't talk to anybody, and that that's
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  Speaker 3: actually really scary, as you say, because they're bottling up
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  Speaker 3: all of those emotions, all their worries, and they're making
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  Speaker 3: everything bigger in their head. As you know, if you
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  Speaker 3: don't talk to somebody and you know, try and get
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  Speaker 3: out those worries and it all amplifies in your head.
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  Speaker 3: And so our concern is that they're you know, they're
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  Speaker 3: brewing mental health problems down the track. That's really what's happening.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: So you've worked as a rich psyche for plenty of years,
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  Speaker 2: how often would you see this in a clinical setting?
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  Speaker 2: So someone comes in, they're really struggling and you just
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  Speaker 2: find out that they've got no one to talk to,
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  Speaker 2: or rather maybe it's that they've chosen not to talk
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  Speaker 2: to anyone.
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  Speaker 3: It's actually really common in a clinical setting if somebody
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  Speaker 3: ends up coming through the door, it's usually precipitated by
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  Speaker 3: you know, a crisis or someone said to them, you
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  Speaker 3: need to go and talk to somebody, or something's happened,
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  Speaker 3: because they'll have you spent a long time sitting ruminating
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  Speaker 3: on something. So it is quite common.
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  Speaker 2: And this is that thing where they're ruminating and it
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  Speaker 2: kind of turns into a catastrophe, doesn't It's there's so
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  Speaker 2: much build up, so much, so much angst, so much.
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  Speaker 1: Unknown going on.
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  Speaker 3: Well, and that's has for young people as well. They've
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  Speaker 3: got all these pressures of you know, school and friends
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  Speaker 3: and social media and a whole host of things happening.
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  Speaker 3: And so there may be something small and solvable or
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  Speaker 3: some emotions that they're feeling that if they talk to
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  Speaker 3: somebody and their emotions are acknowledged, then the feelings go away.
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  Speaker 3: They can help, you know, an adult can help them
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  Speaker 3: manage it. But they're bottling all that up. Then it does,
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  Speaker 3: it becomes big in their head.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, So here's a really tough question. The forty percent
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  Speaker 2: of kids who are talking to no one, no one
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  Speaker 2: at all. How many of them have somebody to talk
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  Speaker 2: to but they're choosing not to talk to them. And
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  Speaker 2: how many of them just don't have someone they feel
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  Speaker 2: that they can talk to. They feel like their parents
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  Speaker 2: will shrug their shoulders and say, I'll get over it.
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  Speaker 2: Stop being silly, You'll be fine. This is all in
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  Speaker 2: your head, So they're concerned about criticism from their parents.
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  Speaker 2: How many of them are in those two different situations.
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  Speaker 3: So there's nearly ten percent of them who say they
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  Speaker 3: have no close adult to talk to at all. Well
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  Speaker 3: of the whole sample. And the problem and where we
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  Speaker 3: came up with the campaign switching off to switch on
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  Speaker 3: for kids is because most kids say they don't listen.
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  Speaker 3: They're close adult doesn't listen. So sixty percent of them
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  Speaker 3: say that they sometimes or maybe listen. Only thirty percent
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  Speaker 3: of kids say they're close adult always listens to them.
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  Speaker 3: So that's the trick. They probably have a close adult.
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  Speaker 3: And the kids who do talk to someone, the first
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  Speaker 3: person they talk to, sixty five percent of them say
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  Speaker 3: their friends. Then six four percent of them say their
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  Speaker 3: parents or their careers, and then thirty three percent say
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  Speaker 3: their sibling, so they do talk to their parents like
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  Speaker 3: it's almost the same percentage as friends. But there's a
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  Speaker 3: percentage of kids who don't believe their close adult listens
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  Speaker 3: to them, and so they give up. I think, what's.
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  Speaker 2: The outcome when children believe that either that close adult
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  Speaker 2: either A isn't there at all, or B is there
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  Speaker 2: but just doesn't listen and therefore doesn't care. What sort
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  Speaker 2: of out comes do we see from a research point
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  Speaker 2: of view, and what sort of outcomes do you see
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  Speaker 2: act for kids when those adults are not perceived as available.
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  Speaker 3: Well, kids feel unloved or uncared for. They don't feel
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  Speaker 3: like they're worthy of someone listening to them and their problems.
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  Speaker 3: They end up with those problems amplified in their heads,
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  Speaker 3: and so they do end up with depression and anxiety.
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  Speaker 3: And we're seeing significant increases in young people in our
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  Speaker 3: services with depression, anxiety, and just general stress and worry
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  Speaker 3: since COVID, like it increased in COVID and hasn't gone away.
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  Speaker 2: I wrote a report just the other day, and I
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  Speaker 2: can't remember the name of the research that I lent,
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  Speaker 2: only I wish I had access to it right as
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  Speaker 2: we're talking. But while I was doing this research for
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  Speaker 2: this report, it indicated that prior to COVID, around about
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  Speaker 2: fifteen percent of adolescents were showing up with anxiety disorders
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  Speaker 2: and anxiety challenges. Since COVID, we've seen that escalate to
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  Speaker 2: somewhere around twenty to twenty five percent for boys and
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  Speaker 2: as much as forty to forty two percent for girls. Like,
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  Speaker 2: the numbers are just astonishingly high over the last couple
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  Speaker 2: of years. When I'm listening to what you're saying, Katrina,
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  Speaker 2: it also reminded me of the classic Emmy Werner studies,
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  Speaker 2: the sociologists who went to that Hawaiian island and studied
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  Speaker 2: everybody in a certain community for about forty years. And
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  Speaker 2: the number one finding that she uncovered as she did
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  Speaker 2: all of her research was at the very core of resilience,
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  Speaker 2: at the very core of avoiding maladaptive coping strategies. The
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  Speaker 2: stuff that kept kids in school, the stuff that kept
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  Speaker 2: kids in good relationships, the stuff that kept them out
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  Speaker 2: of jail and off drugs. The stuff that mattered the
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  Speaker 2: most was that they had a close significant adult that
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  Speaker 2: they could talk to, whether it was a parent or
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  Speaker 2: a swim coach, or a church leader, or a school teacher,
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  Speaker 2: or a counselor, or a neighbor or a grandpa or
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  Speaker 2: an artie or an uncle.
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  Speaker 1: They just had to have a close adult that they
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  Speaker 1: could talk to.
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  Speaker 2: I'm hearing in your research that we've got nearly half
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  Speaker 2: of Australian children, at least half the kids in the
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  Speaker 2: sample a representative Australian sample that are saying I can't
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  Speaker 2: talk to anyone.
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  Speaker 1: They're not present for me. Am, I getting that.
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  Speaker 3: Right, absolutely, And that's why we were really really worried
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  Speaker 3: because we're seeing those increased rates in all of our
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  Speaker 3: services of anxiety and stress and very interested in what
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  Speaker 3: supports children and young people have. And you know, to
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  Speaker 3: have forty percent of kids saying they don't talk to
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  Speaker 3: anybody is really really concerning because down the track they
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  Speaker 3: could end up with significant mental health issues. And certainly
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  Speaker 3: they're you know, they must be struggling, sleeping and you know,
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  Speaker 3: just going through their day and coping in le So
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  Speaker 3: having that close ad of is someone who helps you
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  Speaker 3: learn to cope and co regulates your emotions and you know,
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  Speaker 3: the problem shared is a problem. Halved is actually a
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  Speaker 3: really true, saying, you know, just talking about it and
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  Speaker 3: having it out in the open, you realize, oh, this
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  Speaker 3: maybe not as big as I thought it was. If
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  Speaker 3: somebody acknowledges it and your feelings.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, I've got a couple of questions for you to
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  Speaker 2: get really practical around this. The first one is a
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  Speaker 2: lot of parents will be listening to this and saying, oh,
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  Speaker 2: I try, I'm there, Like I asked the kids, what's
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  Speaker 2: going on? Can they talk to me? And they just
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  Speaker 2: shut me out. As as a psychologist, what's your advice
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  Speaker 2: to parents who have kids who don't seem to be
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  Speaker 2: willing to communicate even though the parent is present, available
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  Speaker 2: and wanting, begging for that conversation.
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  Speaker 3: That's really hard, especially if you're going to start with
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  Speaker 3: a pointed question, oh is everything okay, because like you know,
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  Speaker 3: kids are just going to go yep, you know, no
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  Speaker 3: worries at all. What we've been advocating for is to
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  Speaker 3: people to start with small talk, because if you start
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  Speaker 3: with small talk and you build it into every day incidental,
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  Speaker 3: side by side things, so in the car when you're
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  Speaker 3: getting dinner ready together, you're you know, making lunches, you
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  Speaker 3: all that kind of thing. So they're not the deer
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  Speaker 3: in the headlights and you're pinning them with the question,
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  Speaker 3: you know. So the more you do that and actually
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  Speaker 3: show that you're listening to them, so you're not on
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  Speaker 3: your phone, you're not answering the email, you're not thinking
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  Speaker 3: five days ahead to what's for dinner or where who's
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  Speaker 3: going when you know all of those things, because kids
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  Speaker 3: can tell when you're not listening. So it's those incidental
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  Speaker 3: things and connecting in with them. And so kids are
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  Speaker 3: on their devices all the time now, so you can
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  Speaker 3: just check in with them and go, you know how
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  Speaker 3: you going just thinking of you just a simple text
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  Speaker 3: or a meme that shows them that you're thinking of them,
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  Speaker 3: and just trying to build that small talk connection, because
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  Speaker 3: if you've built the small talk connection and you do
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  Speaker 3: things with them, then if there's a big talk that
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  Speaker 3: needs to happen, the kids will feel like you're listening
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  Speaker 3: to them and will actually talk to you.
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  Speaker 2: Katrena, I was in the car the other day with
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  Speaker 2: one of the kids. She was in a bit of
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  Speaker 2: a poppy mood and Taylor Swift came on Spotify and
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  Speaker 2: I looked at her and said, oh, can you believe
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  Speaker 2: we tried for three days to get tickets and we're
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  Speaker 2: not going.
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  Speaker 1: We couldn't get tickets.
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  Speaker 2: And she looked at me roller eyes and said, I'm
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  Speaker 2: so sad, and I just I was because I've damaged
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  Speaker 2: my body recently, which I've shared on the podcast, with
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: my neck and my back and the breakages of practices whatever.
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  Speaker 2: The physiotherapist said something recently that was all about my body,
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  Speaker 2: but it applies so much to what you've just described.
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  Speaker 2: He said, we need to keep our body moving. Motion
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  Speaker 2: is lotion. And I kind of feel like what you're describing,
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  Speaker 2: this idea of just getting some small talk going, it's
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  Speaker 2: the same concept. Motion is lotion.
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  Speaker 1: Once you get that little bit of small time.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Happening, it can build into a more substantive conversation.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and showing you enjoy spending time with kids,
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  Speaker 3: like my kids are grown up now, but I just remember,
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  Speaker 3: you know, some chaos phrenetic getting food ready or packing
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  Speaker 3: lunches or you know, all that kind of stuff, and
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  Speaker 3: just feeling frazzled and thinking through all the fifteen things
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  Speaker 3: that I had to keep in my brain and kids
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  Speaker 3: just pick up on all that. And so if you
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  Speaker 3: just try and I don't know. It's really hard to
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  Speaker 3: do as a parent, and so I'm not preaching to
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  Speaker 3: people how to do it, but practical stuff is saying, Okay,
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  Speaker 3: the next fifteen minutes, we're just going to hang together
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  Speaker 3: and we're going to put all of that over there,
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  Speaker 3: and no one's going to look at it. You know,
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  Speaker 3: all think about it and devices, and you just try
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  Speaker 3: and build it in with rules around. Okay, this is
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  Speaker 3: just us to hang.
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  Speaker 2: Get comfy, switching on by switching off. Really, it comes
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  Speaker 2: back to this saying that I've been using for a
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  Speaker 2: couple of decades now. It's not mine. I don't know
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  Speaker 2: who invented it. It's been around for a long time.
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  Speaker 2: I'd love to give attribution, but it's just one of
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  Speaker 2: those sayings that are part of the part of the atmosphere.
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  Speaker 2: To a child, love is spelled time, and that's really
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  Speaker 2: at the core of what you're saying. These kids are
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  Speaker 2: saying they need it. Oh, I've got one more question
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  Speaker 2: for you. In the survey, you asked a question about
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  Speaker 2: how much time these fourteen to eighteen year olds want
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  Speaker 2: to spend each day with the adults in their lives.
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  Speaker 2: Can you just talk about that for a moment.
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  Speaker 3: I know this blew us away one to two hours
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  Speaker 3: per day.
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  Speaker 1: So what were their options.
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  Speaker 2: They could choose from zero up to a certain number
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  Speaker 2: of like four or five, six, seven hours.
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  Speaker 3: It was less than half half an hour, one to
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  Speaker 3: two hours, more than two hours, and none. So twenty
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  Speaker 3: eight percent of kids said more than two hours. The
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  Speaker 3: majority of kids said one to two hours, and hardly
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  Speaker 3: any kid said none or less than half an hour.
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  Speaker 3: Just blew us away, because so they're really craving time,
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  Speaker 3: and the time they said that they wanted to spend
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  Speaker 3: was just hanging out together or chatting in the car,
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  Speaker 3: or chatting while we're doing things. We gave them a
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  Speaker 3: list of options about when they would want their adult
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  Speaker 3: to listen to them, so they're really clear they just
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  Speaker 3: want to hang out with the close adult and have
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  Speaker 3: the opportunity for that person to listen to them.
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  Speaker 1: I love this finding.
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  Speaker 2: I mean it flies in the face of everything that
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  Speaker 2: people have always said about teenagers. They're moody, they're someone
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  Speaker 2: they don't want to hang out with the adults they're
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  Speaker 2: supposed to separate from their parents, And here we've got
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  Speaker 2: fourteen to eighteen year olds saying if I could spend
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  Speaker 2: one or two hours every day with my parents, i'd
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  Speaker 2: be spoked.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Quarter of them, more than a quarter them want
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  Speaker 3: more than two hours. Yeah, which is just outstanding. Wow. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: but I mean they don't want you to sit and
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  Speaker 3: you know.
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  Speaker 1: Not looking for the meaningful conversation.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. They doesn't want that. They just want
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  Speaker 3: to be able to do stuff together.
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  Speaker 2: Doctor Katrina Lyons is the of Act for Kids, a
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  Speaker 2: charity that helps keep kids safe, heal from trauma, and
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: lead happy lives. The new report the new campaign get
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Comfy Switching on by Switching Off. We'll link to it
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: in the show notes. Katrina, what a delightful conversation. We
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  Speaker 2: so appreciate you spending some time with us on the
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  Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast to talk about something that I think
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  Speaker 2: we'll give a whole lot of parents of adolescents a
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  Speaker 2: whole lot of hope.
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  Speaker 3: Thanks Justin.
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  Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer and for
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: more and fol about making your family happier, check out
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: the show notes for the details of Act for Kids,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: or visit us at Happy Families dot com dot au.