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Which College Football Playoff Format Would Be Best For The Buckeyes? · Buckeyes TomOrrow Morning

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to Buckeyes tomorrow morning. From Monday, June sixteenth, I'm
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: your host, tom Or the Texas game in seventy five days,
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  Speaker 1: the game against Michigan in one hundred and sixty six days.
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  Speaker 1: to get through the intro in just one shot. I
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  Speaker 1: did remember how to do this show. It has been
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  Speaker 1: a minute, peeps. Thank you for your patients through what
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  Speaker 1: was a fantastic summer vacation for me. Thank you also
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  Speaker 1: to all of my teammates at Buckeyehuddle who helped cover
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  Speaker 1: for me while I was out of town. Chief among
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  Speaker 1: those Tony Gridaman buckeyehuddle dot com. He was one of
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  Speaker 1: the frequent fill in hosts while I was there, and
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  Speaker 1: now he is back in the back in the guest chair. Tony,
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  Speaker 1: thank you for your for your thank you for your service,
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  Speaker 1: and I did want to talk to you about something
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  Speaker 1: that happened while I was out of town, and that
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  Speaker 1: was Ross Biorke talking about, you know, his preference for
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  Speaker 1: what the what the college football playoff might look like,
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  Speaker 1: and Brian Day has sort of weighed in on some
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  Speaker 1: of that stuff as well. And then I wanted it
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  Speaker 1: to look back at which of the various formats might
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  Speaker 1: have worked out best for Ohio State over the previous
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  Speaker 1: eleven seasons of the college football playoffs. So I guess
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  Speaker 1: let's start Tony with the what you what you talked
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  Speaker 1: to Ross by Orke about on Thursday last week. I
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  Speaker 1: think it was, you know, his views on what he
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  Speaker 1: wants to see, what his choice would be for the
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  Speaker 1: college football playoff format.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, his choice would be the four four two two
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  Speaker 2: one format, which would be the four automatic qualifiers for
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  Speaker 2: the SEC, the four automatic qualifiers for the Big Ten,
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  Speaker 2: two each, two automatic qualifiers each for the ACC and
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  Speaker 2: Big twelve, and then the highest group of six I
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  Speaker 2: guess ranked conference champ being that one. Then there's three
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  Speaker 2: at large's Notre Dame and whomever else can get in there.
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  Speaker 2: And that's his preference, and he's got a lot of
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  Speaker 2: different reasons for that. I think the top two answers
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  Speaker 2: for him were content and good games, which are great
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  Speaker 2: opportunities for the football players. And that's where he is
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  Speaker 2: right now on his preference. And we can get into
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  Speaker 2: why that means better content you later on in the show,
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  Speaker 2: but his preference is four four two two one, which
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  Speaker 2: leads to bigger games, better games, and more things that
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  Speaker 2: you can do with those games.
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  Speaker 1: And I know that one of the big talking points
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  Speaker 1: there for not just from B York, but from kind
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  Speaker 1: of everyone on the Big ten and SEC side of
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  Speaker 1: things in terms of here's why we need to get
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  Speaker 1: four automatic bids every year is that that then allows
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  Speaker 1: the SE to not allows the SEC could easily go
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  Speaker 1: to nine conference games if they weren't cowards, but of
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  Speaker 1: course they are, so they have not gone to nine
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  Speaker 1: conference games yet there's still at eight. But this would
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  Speaker 1: allow them to go to nine conference games and then
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  Speaker 1: also you know, to maintain playing tougher out of conference games.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, I have my own theories on how
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  Speaker 1: they could easily work around that without guaranteeing them spot
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  Speaker 1: self spots. But of course it's in everyone's best interest
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  Speaker 1: in those two conferences to have four locked in spots
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  Speaker 1: every year. That would probably be you know that that
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  Speaker 1: certainly raises the floor significantly for those those two leagues.
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  Speaker 1: You know, what, what do you what do you think
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  Speaker 1: ross Byorke means in terms of the content in the
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  Speaker 1: better games? Why? Why do you think that he views
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  Speaker 1: that as something that is uh, you know, would would
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  Speaker 1: make that a preferable format to the other The other
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  Speaker 1: format is just what they're they're calling the five eleven
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  Speaker 1: format or the five nine format, depending on it's nine
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  Speaker 1: or fourteen or sixteen teams, where it would be the
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  Speaker 1: five you know, the four Power conference teams that are
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  Speaker 1: conference champions and then whatever whatever the fifth conference champion
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  Speaker 1: is the fifth highest right conference champion, non power conference champion,
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  Speaker 1: and then eleven at larger. So that that's the other
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  Speaker 1: option that we're talking about. So why does ross Buyork
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  Speaker 1: feel like it would be a it would be better
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  Speaker 1: content to do the four four two two one three model?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, a number of reasons. One, it encourages or doesn't
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  Speaker 2: punish a game like Ohio State versus Texas. Doesn't punish
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  Speaker 2: those series, and that obviously people want to see that.
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  Speaker 2: That leads to better ratings, leads to more money and
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  Speaker 2: things of that nature than the television partners like those
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  Speaker 2: the extra the Big Ten playing nine conference games, obviously
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  Speaker 2: there's more content there. The if the SEC were to
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  Speaker 2: do it to go to nine games, there would be
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  Speaker 2: more content there. But also what you then can can
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  Speaker 2: can do in this model would be to create play
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  Speaker 2: in games, and that would be in the Big Ten
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  Speaker 2: standings would be three versus six and four versus five,
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  Speaker 2: and the winners of those two games make the playoffs.
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  Speaker 2: Now I will figure out and down the road what
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  Speaker 2: happens with the championship game, the conference championshipship game, which
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  Speaker 2: in my opinion no longer matters because it didn't matter
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  Speaker 2: last year. Nobody was punished for losing that game. And
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  Speaker 2: everybody that made the conference championship games made the playoffs
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  Speaker 2: in a twelve team, so go ahead and assume they'd
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  Speaker 2: make it in a sixteen or fourteen team. So maybe
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  Speaker 2: and nobody benefited from winning the conference championship. So maybe
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  Speaker 2: the the benefit would be like, hey, you two you
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  Speaker 2: teams don't have to play now your top you finished
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  Speaker 2: up to take a break. But that those kinds of
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  Speaker 2: things just some. I mean, it doubles the amount of
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  Speaker 2: postseason games or you know, triples it or whatever in
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  Speaker 2: terms of the Big Ten, which I think it also
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  Speaker 2: creates a more powerful game, impact full game, that meaningful game,
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  Speaker 2: which I think if you continue to have these conference
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  Speaker 2: championship games which end up like last year and they
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  Speaker 2: don't impact anything, the ratings aren't gonna like the the ratings,
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  Speaker 2: the meaning like, those games become less and less relevant.
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  Speaker 2: So I think also one of the things that I
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  Speaker 2: don't know if you talked about this, but would just
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  Speaker 2: be inherent in this is that if you essentially have
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  Speaker 2: your top six teams in the Big Ten buying for
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  Speaker 2: the playoffs over the course of a season, that means
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  Speaker 2: probably you've got ten teams buying for the playoffs in
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  Speaker 2: the course of a season. So games between Iowa and
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  Speaker 2: Maryland and October are going to be much more important
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  Speaker 2: than they would have been in the past. So there's
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  Speaker 2: content there as well where more eyes would be on
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  Speaker 2: it because now these games become more important.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's one of the things that when they
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  Speaker 1: were just talking about expanding from four to twelve, that
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  Speaker 1: was something that I brought up a bunch of times,
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  Speaker 1: and I know you and I have talked about a
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  Speaker 1: whole bunch on various shows that they were under the
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  Speaker 1: old system four team system, functionally half of the sport
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  Speaker 1: was eliminated before the season even started because if you're
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  Speaker 1: a non power team, you needed basically multiple really good
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  Speaker 1: years in a row to even have a chance to
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  Speaker 1: make it. So now you've got those teams all potentially
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  Speaker 1: having a spot, you know, a shot to get in.
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  Speaker 1: And also again, now once you've lost two games, if
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  Speaker 1: you've lost two games under the old four team system,
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  Speaker 1: you were out no matter what. Now if you have
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  Speaker 1: you know, now if you have two losses, who cares. Well,
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  Speaker 1: we'll get into some of the specifics of some previous years,
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  Speaker 1: but there are plenty of teams that are three loss
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  Speaker 1: teams that could have been in those you know, three
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  Speaker 1: versus six kind of games in the Big Ten in
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  Speaker 1: the past. So yeah, so that and just to be
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  Speaker 1: clear we were he was talking specifically, Tony was talking
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  Speaker 1: specifically about the Big Ten in that previous thing, because
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  Speaker 1: there were not two Big twelve teams that made the
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  Speaker 1: playoff last year. It was just the Big ten and
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  Speaker 1: the in the Big ten in the SEC had you know,
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  Speaker 1: those functionally unimportant conference championship games. So I went back
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  Speaker 1: and looked through every year since twenty fourteen, what would
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  Speaker 1: have you know, where would Ohio State have been better
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  Speaker 1: off under the four four two two one three system
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  Speaker 1: or under a five eles type system. And you know,
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  Speaker 1: this is not the only thing that you know, this
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  Speaker 1: is not the only thing that is you know, going
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  Speaker 1: to make these decisions. And you know, honestly, I think
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  Speaker 1: Ohio State would probably have been better previously under the
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  Speaker 1: previous eleven seasons. They probably would have been better under
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  Speaker 1: the five to eleven format, just as an individual school.
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  Speaker 1: That doesn't mean they would have made as much money.
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  Speaker 1: That doesn't mean they would have you know, you know,
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  Speaker 1: would have been better for the whole Big Ten. But
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  Speaker 1: for Ohio State, I think they would have been better
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  Speaker 1: under the five eleven And I will show my work here.
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  Speaker 1: Twenty fourteen, they were entering the College Football Playoff IM
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  Speaker 1: just using the final College Football Playoff MIDI rankings on
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  Speaker 1: all of this, they were the number four team in
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  Speaker 1: the rankings and they were the first Big Ten team,
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  Speaker 1: So they are in either way, no drama, no play
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  Speaker 1: in game, they're in the field either way. In twenty fifteen,
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  Speaker 1: they would have been the number seven seed and they
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  Speaker 1: would have been the third Big Ten teams, So they
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  Speaker 1: would have been in under the five and eleven model,
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  Speaker 1: they would have had a three versus six game against
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  Speaker 1: Oregon to have to get in under the five under
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  Speaker 1: the four four, two two one three model. So in
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  Speaker 1: that case, you're in no matter what, under five to eleven.
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  Speaker 1: If you're if you're the number seven team, you would
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  Speaker 1: have been at risk of if you lost to that
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  Speaker 1: nine and three Oregon team in that three to six game,
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  Speaker 1: you very well may not have made the field as
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  Speaker 1: an at large. I was. I started to go through
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  Speaker 1: and trying to figure out, you know, okay, well who
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  Speaker 1: would have been here? And it's like, well, all right,
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  Speaker 1: so you know this team is here, but they would
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  Speaker 1: be playing in a different conference now, and so it
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  Speaker 1: got real complicated and real messy, real fast. So you're
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  Speaker 1: we're gonna say they would have been at risk at
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  Speaker 1: least in twenty fifteen. Twenty sixteen, they were the number
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  Speaker 1: three team in the rankings, first Big ten team they're in.
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  Speaker 1: Either way, it's twenty seventeen number five in the rankings,
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  Speaker 1: first Big ten team in either way, twenty eighteen number
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  Speaker 1: six team in the in the nation, first Big ten team.
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  Speaker 1: That doesn't feel like that long ago. The top Big
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  Speaker 1: Ten team was sixth in the College Football Playoff rank.
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  Speaker 1: Everyone has come a long way since twenty eighteen. Either
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  Speaker 1: way they are in either way there. Twenty nineteen they
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  Speaker 1: were number two, the first Big ten team. They're in
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  Speaker 1: either way. Twenty twenty, number three, they're the first Big
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  Speaker 1: ten team. They're in either way. Twenty twenty one they're
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  Speaker 1: number six. They would have been the second Big Ten
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  Speaker 1: team a game. Again, they're in either way. Twenty twenty
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  Speaker 1: two they're number four, second Big ten team they would
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  Speaker 1: have been in either way now. Twenty twenty three and
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  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, this is where you have a couple
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  Speaker 1: real interesting results. Twenty twenty three, they were number seven.
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  Speaker 1: They were the third Big ten team. They would have
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  Speaker 1: been playing a ten and three well I guess ten
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  Speaker 1: and two Iowa team. I guess in that game because
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  Speaker 1: they wouldn't have played in the conference championship game, the
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  Speaker 1: game where they get clubbed by Michigan. They would they
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  Speaker 1: would have played a three versus six game against Iowa,
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  Speaker 1: and as again as the number seven team there, if
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  Speaker 1: you lose to Iowa, you very well could get get
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  Speaker 1: left out in the four four two two one model.
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  Speaker 1: And then twenty twenty four. You remember that season, they
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  Speaker 1: were sixth in the rankings, third the Big Ten. Again,
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  Speaker 1: they would have been at risk if they lost to
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  Speaker 1: the number six team. There were only five Big Ten
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  Speaker 1: teams ranked in the College Football Playoff top twenty five.
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  Speaker 1: So I went, Okay, I'll look at the AAP ballot
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  Speaker 1: to figure out someone's got to be receiving votes. I'm
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  Speaker 1: sure then we can figure out, Okay, where where are they?
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  Speaker 1: Who would they have played? No, there was no one
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  Speaker 1: in the other teams receiving votes. So the next school
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  Speaker 1: up in just the league standings was Iowa and then Michigan.
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  Speaker 1: So you probably would have played Iowa again, and you know,
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  Speaker 1: we saw what happened. Ohio State played Iowa at home
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  Speaker 1: and beat them, you know, beat them comfortably. But you're
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  Speaker 1: at risk. So that's three they would have. Under the
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  Speaker 1: five and eleven format, they would have made it every
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  Speaker 1: single year, no drama, no fuss, no musk. Under the
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  Speaker 1: four four, two two one, format, yes there's more content,
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  Speaker 1: Yes it's probably more exciting. Yes there's all sorts of
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  Speaker 1: ancillary benefits for the rest of this sport and all
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  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, But I think it actually works
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  Speaker 1: out not in Ohio State's favor. In a lot of cases, there.
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  Speaker 2: No one agree five plus eleven works out in favor
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  Speaker 2: of big time programs like Ohio State and the SEC.
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  Speaker 2: That's why the coaches want the five plus eleven. They
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  Speaker 2: want all of those at large bids rather than having
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  Speaker 2: to vy for them over TOM. One of my points
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  Speaker 2: is in my sales job of this to the Big
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  Speaker 2: twelve in the ACC. In reality, if you're playing in
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  Speaker 2: those at large games, you are a playoff team. So
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  Speaker 2: really there's six Big ten teams in the playoff. There's
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  Speaker 2: six SEC teams in the playoff, four Big twelve, four
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  Speaker 2: a CE teams. Make everybody feel better because if you
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  Speaker 2: control your destiny, and you can, if all you have
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  Speaker 2: to do is keep winning, you're in the playoffs. That's
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  Speaker 2: that is what a playoff is. So I don't call
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  Speaker 2: them play in TOM. All them play offs. But yes,
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  Speaker 2: if you don't have to play in playing game, your
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  Speaker 2: road is easier. My second point, and this is something
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  Speaker 2: that I said to ross Byork after he got them
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  Speaker 2: talking to him, and this is something he alluded to before.
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  Speaker 2: Like said, so if it goes to five plus eleven,
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  Speaker 2: say goodbye to the Texas games, the Georgia games, the
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  Speaker 2: Alabama games, and he's like, yeah, that's there's no no
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  Speaker 2: reason to do those when the entire goal now is
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  Speaker 2: to make the playoffs and to look as I think
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  Speaker 2: I wrote it yesterday or the day before, it becomes
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  Speaker 2: a beauty pageant and not a battlefield when you go
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  Speaker 2: five plus eleven, and the coaches would love to have
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  Speaker 2: a beauty pageant rather than the battlefield. So I think, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: for Ohio State would be great. But does everybody remember
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the non conference schedule last year the year before, the
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  Speaker 2: complaining about the schedule and how like these are boring,
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  Speaker 2: This is boring, Like that's going to be every year
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  Speaker 2: with a five plus eleven and there's no incentive like
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  Speaker 2: if you if losses and sounds crazy to say if
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  Speaker 2: losses are gonna hurt you, you know, but like loss
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  Speaker 2: will hurt you. But people are so afraid of losing
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  Speaker 2: that they're just going to schedule wins every chance they get.
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  Speaker 2: And with the Big Ten already having nine conference games, boy,
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  Speaker 2: they're gonna have to schedule like three like last year
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  Speaker 2: is going to be the norm in terms of like
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  Speaker 2: I'm gonna probably can we get Youngstown State twice in
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  Speaker 2: a year. Can we play them week one in Week three?
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  Speaker 2: So that is another issue that I think argues against
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  Speaker 2: the five plus eleven.
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  Speaker 1: My question, and I sort of have you know, touched
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  Speaker 1: on this a little bit earlier. Is there some reason
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  Speaker 1: that they can't just tell the committee the new criteria
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  Speaker 1: is the team with the most wins against good opponents
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  Speaker 1: and don't worry about the losses. They're changing everything about
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  Speaker 1: the college Football Playoff. Is there some reason you can't
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: just tell the committee, Hey, whoever has good wins, whoever
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  Speaker 1: has the best resume in terms of good wins, should
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: be prioritized in terms of of your selection, or you
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: just you would do it as a computer ranking thing
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: and then you know, you tweak the computer rankings. So
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  Speaker 1: they did. We saw them do this in the BCS
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  Speaker 1: every year. They you know, they always fixed whatever last
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: year's problem was in the BCS. You can know its
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: change what the criteria is. So just change the criteria.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: So it's the more good wins you have, the better
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: your case is. And if you lose some of those games,
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  Speaker 1: that's okay. If you lose to Texas, that doesn't kill you, especially,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: you know, especially you lose a you know, you lose
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: the They lost to Oregon last year on the road
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  Speaker 1: by one point, and you know that really didn't hurt
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  Speaker 1: them very much. It was the bad loss against Michigan.
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  Speaker 1: So it it feels like this is a problem, that
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  Speaker 1: there's a there's a work around here. But I think secretly, Tony,
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  Speaker 1: the reason that everyone loves the four four two two
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  Speaker 1: one thing is when they say it's better content, it
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  Speaker 1: means it's more money from our TV partners to pay
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  Speaker 1: for all of the uncertainty facing college football right now. Now.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Will it be better content? Yes, it will. Is there
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  Speaker 1: a work around around that? Yeah? There is? And you know,
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  Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to spoil the surprise, but
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  Speaker 1: I would be very I would be shocked if it
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  Speaker 1: was not for you know, some something close to four
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: four two two one, because ultimately everyone's going to probably
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: make more money off of that, and that's sort of
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  Speaker 1: been the deciding factor and a lot of you know,
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  Speaker 1: how everything in college football gets settled these days. But
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  Speaker 1: I think there is a work around around that if
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  Speaker 1: they chose to, uh, you know, everyone's acting like there's
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  Speaker 1: no possible other solution, and that's you know, I think
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  Speaker 1: there's a pretty obvious solution. They just you know, the
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  Speaker 1: folks in charge of college football writ large are probably
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  Speaker 1: just not that interested in finding that.
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  Speaker 2: And it's it is kind of a big change, or
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  Speaker 2: it's a different kind of change. And one of the
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  Speaker 2: things that Ross Buorg did also say that one of
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  Speaker 2: the benefits of the four four two two one is
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  Speaker 2: you take you take a lot of the power out
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: of the committee and it becomes less about the committee
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: and more about what you've done with with on the
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: football field. And also the four four two two one
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: would in theory because if that happens, then we assume
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: the SEC is going to nine games. In theory, you
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: could then do the big ten SEC like thing that
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: they've talked about, the Big ten SEC Challenge or whatever
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: it is that you want to talk about, So that
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: could be part of that as well, which would create
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: then basically a tenth or eleventh Big Time or at
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: least a Power five Power four game for the content providers.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Tom I'm not a mathket Let me ask you one thing,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: because I know the SEC. One of the reasons the
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: coaches don't like don't like the idea of the ninth
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: game is because these schedulers strength of schedule is so tough,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: so tough already, if they were to add another SEC game,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: wouldn't the entire conference just be adding a five hundred team,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: So wouldn't the strength of schedule come down?
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: You know, it depends on it depends on how you
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: tabulate the strength of schedule. There it's if you just
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: want to do it on a pure win loss basis, yes, absolutely,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: If you want to do it as a you know,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: if you want to take fake factor in some of
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: the more advanced metrics, which tend to favor the you know,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Power Conference and especially the Power two kind of teams
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: at this point, then yeah, that probably will help your
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: strength of schedule overall. But it feels like this is
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: a situation where everyone's acting like there's not in any
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: other solution, and there are plenty of workarounds. However, I
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: also I also recognize that, you know, I personally find
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: the we need to be guaranteed four spots or we're
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: not coming to be a little bit petulant is maybe
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: one word to describe it, but you know, you got
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: to you gotta put your thumb on the scale a
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: little bit. And the reason they come up with those
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: numbers at four is well like historically, this is what
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: we would have gotten, like great, So you weren't scared
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: to compete back then, so why are you scared to
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: compete now? But that's a whole separate conversation. So anyway,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: so we'll see how this all ends up shaking out.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: They have plenty of time to continue to fight and
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: pull each other's hair and scratch each other's eyes and
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff as the leaders of college
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: football continue to bring the sport into the future. We
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: will see how that all shakes out. But that is
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: just one of the many things we're talking about right now.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: At bucke huddle dot com, had a full team of
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: insiders covering the team, recruiting x's and o's, all that
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: good stuff, plus a very fun and active community on
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: the huddle board, presented by Jeff Rubies of Columbus. That's
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: all at bucke huddle dot Com. That'll do it for today.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys all for joining us. Have a great day.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: We'll talk to you tomorrow.