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What Happens When a Parent and Child Both Have OCD (OCD)(Episode 32) · Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast

• Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc & Stacee: Hi there, y'all. I'm Stacey. And along with my husband Mark, we want to thank you for living uncertain with us. We really appreciate you tuning in and listening to episode 32. Welcome to episode 32. And as you all know by now, this is the podcast that addresses all things OCD and ERP. We are a married couple who has talked pretty extensively so far in episodes previous to this as to how my late stage diagnosis of OCD has really affected our family previous to my diagnosis and what going through intensive ERP has meant for our family now in the last 18 months to two years. Yeah. And so we'd love to chat more about that. And also we've talked a lot about our our family. Mark and I have been married for over 20 years. Twenty-two. Just celebrated 22. Yes. Thank you. Let's let's get in there. Over twenty years. Let's just call it what it is. Twenty-two years. We have two teenage children, Miles and Avery. Of course, as you all know, our son Miles is a freshman at ASU and our daughter just entered her freshman year of high school. And we often talk about how they're doing now with my OCD being more in under control than it was before and what it of what it affected and how it affected them previous to My seeking help and my having that intensive ERP therapy. They were they were prior to your ERP that you had to go through, they were kind of more in a state to where they weren't able to do different things and sure. because your your anxiety around that death and kind of precluded them from yeah. Hanging out with friends and that type of thing as much as more than probably what they w wanted to do. They wanted to do more. Yeah. more miles than Avery. Mm-hmm. You know, and I think we realize why Avery's was less than miles now. Yes. And if you've all been listening to us for a little while now, you know we've talked about our daughter's journey as well. She's fifteen. She was diagnosed last year also with OCD. And we've actually had her on one of our episodes not that long ago from this past summer. And we definitely want to get her back on and interview her again as part of our ongoing commitment to this this community, this journey that we're on. so we'll be excited to do that with her and and she's very amenable to joining us and talking about her perspective on things, not only as the daughter of someone who has O C D and how that has affected her, but again how her own O C D has affected her and her relationships with people, family and otherwise. Yeah. Friends. Yep. Schooling. Yep. All of it. It it's definitely impacted her. Yes. In that way. And I and I mean I can remember early on, you know, different different scenarios. Her anxiety with schooling would come around and or even going over to friend's house when she was little. She couldn't you know, many times we would get the phone call in the middle of the night, hey, she wants to come home. We would drive and pick her up. That sometimes is a typical kid thing though. Yeah. But but in her case it got more extreme as she got a little bit older and then it turned into just wanting to come home from friends' houses to then wanting to come home from school, then to not wanting to be part of a traditional schooling structure anymore. And so from the time she was in sixth grade to the time, well, all through her middle school. So three years total, she spent doing an online schooling program. And now as she enters high school, she's going back in person after a few years. But she has also had some really amazing therapy with our therapist and she's also been participating in some psychoeducation as well as some ERP that has really helped to turn her life in a little different direction now as well. And for her, I think it's been really good that we've been able to come to that diagnosis of O C D from earlier in life. And and I mean, there's a couple there's a situation that when she was maybe first, second grade where she was having a hard time picking out her outfits. Uhhuh. And her anxiety would get to the better of her to the point where we would have Days of the week bins to where she had my gosh, yes. Wow. She had to take and pick out Time flies, y'all. I can't believe they're eighteen and fifteen now and we were we were doing that. Yeah. Yeah. And but she'd have to pick out her clothing and put it in the bins for the week and that's what she had. Whatever was in that bin was what she wore that day. Yeah. And that was our way of working through Some that discomfort with her, maybe not the best ERP, but we didn't know what we were doing back then either. We didn't. And we were just tackling the anxiety. Yeah. And honestly, in the same vein that I feel in my story, and then I I know others have felt this as well because I've done my research and have been on social media and I've seen other stories as well. That a lot of those of us who have OCD, especially those of us who were diagnosed late in life, it often looked like we just had generalized anxiety. Or panic disorder. And so initially treatment looked very different. And then it wasn't until you got deeper into that and realized that that wasn't going to be the best and most efficient treatment because it really was deeper than that. And it really was obsessive compulsive disorder. And I think that's what we finally learned in Avery's case, too, is we thought she as well had just generalized anxiety and I shouldn't say just, but she had generalized anxiety and. panic because I felt like that's what I had. And so then once my diagnosis came around, we were seeing very similar things in her. And so eventually her diagnosis also followed and we've had her in therapy now too. For for over a year now. Yeah. Working on it. A at a different pace too than than with Stacy went through. Because I mean you were at a much Well, yeah. I mean I was higher need at that point. Well, I was initially I was in much higher need and and at at the time when I started getting the intensive therapy and I was doing multiple exposures a week and then Mark was helping to carry that over into our house hold, I was ready. I mean, I was in my forties. I had been dealing with this since I was about fifteen and didn't rec didn't know what it was. And so I really wanted to dive into the exposures even though I knew they were I I, you know, no one wants to be exposed to things that make them uncomfortable or make them feel uncertain or make them feel not right. I don't think that that's something that everyone jumps the ch at the chance to do, but I knew that what was on the other side of it was so amazing. And if I could push myself to get through the exposure, to really commit to the exhaustion, that's a phrase we use a lot too, because it really can be a very exhausting process. And once you commit, it's hard to stop then. And and the the relief that the exposures bring become more exciting to go after than the compulsions. And I and I think for Avery too, she saw the success that you were having. Yeah. And and I think she wanted to experience that too as well. Well, I that's Very sweet of you to say and very humbling for me to to know that I could help my daughter in that way. 'cause I didn't feel like I was helping either one of my kids or my husband for a very long time. And so now that I'm in a different place in my life, to see that we can now help Avery in the same way is is very fulfilling. Yeah. She's our daughter. But for you, it's also probably difficult to to well, we have to do an exposure to see that discomfort in her. Yeah. Definitely something that I I wanted to address on this particular episode because we we see that O C D, even in one family member, affects the family in such a way. And so in our case we have four of us. It's Mark and I and Miles and Ave. And we had two out of the four of us who had OCD, who have OCD. And we have different our OCD expresses itself in different ways. Avery and I do. And so there is a lot of challenge in that. And and just because I've been through the exposures, just because I know what's on the other side, just because I got to the point where I was ready, man, it is not easy to watch Ave go through that. Even though I know what's on the other side for her, and we've seen some of the benefits of the exposures that she's been willing to to do. But she's also caught you. Has she? Yeah. Yeah, probably. Just like you try to Everyone catches me now. You know, everyone knows about mom's OCDE. Everyone knows. No, she like she will want to do a compulsion and you let her do it. Without realizing it. Just like you try to get away with it with me. Yeah. And sometimes you do get away with it. I mean you can't do it twenty four seven. I can try. Yeah. And and I try to catch them all, but sometimes, you know, one or two slip through and and she'll, you know, gets them past you too as well. And I think that's some of that's just because you're being a mom. Yeah, I agree. And and I I joke and say that yes, I I'm gonna try to, you know, sneak as many compulsions as I can by Mark. And one of the biggest ones that I still do is checking in and trying to get reassurance from him. That's one of the biggest ones that can I still struggle with, one of the ones that I still struggle with. And so there are times that I can sneak one past him. And it's usually about work. Well, we joke about that. And there is humor to be found. I I believe in humor. I believe in finding the the the light within a dark situation now, given what our family has been through. I don't want to sneak those by him. And sometimes I do it and I catch myself because it's so It's such an automatic response for me sometimes that I go, I think I just asked for reassurance. I think I just checked in. wow. Nope. I don't want to do that. And so recognize the situation and you do better on the next go around. And I think starting to get better at that too, recognize. I think it's the same with Avery is But I I think, you know, it she's still at the beginning stages of the the ERP really. She is. And and she's younger. Yeah. And so it's harder for her to wrap her brain around what's on the other side of the exposures. Yeah. Which, you know, but as she gets older, she'll she'll figure that out too. We'll continue the the therapy. And you know, we'll find out we'll probably find that there's other O C D tendencies that she's doing that we're not we don't realize. Mm-hmm. You know, and she'll she'll share with us some things like, yeah, this is what I do and we're like, Yep. You know, like the tapping, you know. And some of hers are f or physical yep, yep, manifestations of of compulsions with tapping and counting. And she'll also I think has a tendency to try to sneak in some reassurance as well. I I've seen her do it, I've I've heard her do it to both you and to I to me. She definitely doesn't want to upset us. Sure. And she'll she'll s or she'll ask if we're okay or Yeah. You know, she'll come back in and check on us or whatever, just to make sure that whatever she might have done didn't she doesn't she doesn't want to upset us. So it's it's a lot like feeling like you've left something not feeling just right. And so you have to go back and check again. And I can certainly relate to that. And she was sh that was a big one. And and she's gotten a lot better at not doing that one. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. You know, and that's probably one of the ones that we kind of started with too, with her is not allowing her to check in and you know. Mm-hmm. Like when when you were working from home last year and she was going to school at home, you know, as well. She'd get There were some definite challenges. Yep. When you're working and you'd, you know. What you need? You know, that type of thing. And she was kind of doing more of check-ins with you. And I agree. You know, making sure that everything was still good and and you had to kinda put a little distance there. Yeah, I did. And it's it's so hard. We spend a lot of time on this podcast and my O C D, my journey initially and Therapy with Mark and him bringing the spouse's perspective to OCD treatment and what that has done for us, our marriage, our family, et cetera, was really what we have focused in on so much. And I think that it's just really important to put out there that even though I feel like I've come as far as I have, and I've been able to do a lot of the hard work and I'm on the other side of a lot of it and feel better than I have felt in years. It doesn't absolve me from still being affected by Avery's OCD and when that comes out, or in fact, it really adds a little extra challenge to the way that we have to navigate it. And there are times that Mark and I have talked about the fact that, I'm gonna have to leave the room because I can't watch her go through that exposure and and Mark is gonna have to step up once again as he has. And and be the rock and really see her through that. and I'm getting to the point where I'm doing the harder things too when I want to do that. but there's definitely some additional challenges. I mean, OCD affects the family, no matter if you're the parents of a child with OCD like we are, or Mark is the spouse of someone with O C D as he is, or our children are the son and daughter of someone with OCD. I mean, there's just the inevitability of it affecting. It's just inevitable that it's going to affect the whole family. Yeah. And and I know Miles has his perspective too on you know, and maybe down the road we'll have him on so that he can share his perspective. But you know, he's got such a kind heart that he does. That I don't think he would probably share the full truth as far as how your the O C D has impacted him. I agree. You know, and and when we go to therapy, sometimes, you know, there's weeks that we go as a full family. You know, it's it's it's the family therapy in there too versus just you and I or versus just you or just Avery. Mm-hmm. And Miles goes on his own. Yeah. on occasion. And it it's really become a part of our family's routine and and the way that our family operates to have us all in therapy, whether we're doing an individual session or a family session, et cetera. And I think that that also has played such a role in the turnaround that our family has experienced. And I and I know for you and I, the therapy journey has definitely shifted to as well. To where at the beginning of it it was all revolving around the ERP and and your O C D and what exposures we were gonna do. Yes. I mean we did that for months on end. that that's what it was every week we would sit down and and talk about, you know, well what came up this week and you know, what did you what was a win? What was a challenge, you know, type of thing. And okay, this is what you need to focus in on next week, you know, for for exposures. And and we would come up with those and and we did that, you know, months on end. Now our therapy looks very different. Yes. You know, we We talk about more of our our life stuff that's going on. We do, yes. Versus your OCD. You know, and and Av Avery will have her own more focused on on how we are handling Avery's O C D as parents. Yep. And I find it so interesting, I have to say it, you know, if if any of you have listened to many of our episodes at this point, you know that my husband loves a good analogy. And I can't believe he missed this one because I'm pretty sure this is one he's used before. But it has never been a truer statement than in this episode itself, which is it's like when you're on the airplane and you have the oxygen mask. And what do they tell you to do? You have to put it on yourself before you can put it on other people surrounding you to help. And that's really, I think, what ended up happening in our case is I needed to help myself through. The OCD that I was experiencing, and now that I have, for the most part, like we've talked about before, it's still a work in progress. I can now better help Avery. It doesn't make it easy all the time. It doesn't make it, gosh, I still struggle. But at least we we were able to recognize We are recognizing it. And we can see when she's having an OCD flare up or when compulsions are coming through. Just like we started to kind of notice it and s and see it out from with me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But even but even then, you know, now we can we talk about like how what exposure she's gonna go through for the the week or every type of thing. Yes. The bi weekly that we are now on. And but then you you and I sitting with our therapist, we're we're talking more about regular life. Yeah. Stuff like Miles going to college and is he gonna be responsible? We I don't know. We're we're hoping for the best. We're praying a lot. Yeah. Praying long, hard, and often. You know that our son is making sure that he's making the right choices. Yeah. Go like let's go to class and I mean that would be a good one to start with if we're gonna be in college like I mean, you know, class at ten thirty or whatever. We decided to send our son that likes a party to apparently, as its reputation precedes, one of the biggest party schools in the US, did we? Yeah. Did we not? But at least he's, you know, close here. He's close. We can get to him if he needs us. We will be there for him no matter what, as all parents are experiencing this, letting their oldest children go to college right now. And what a additional challenge to the family that brings. And I know that my O C D has come out a little more since he went to college in ways that I thought that I had kind of addressed already, but I see it coming up again. And again, one of my biggest intrusive thoughts is the concept of death and dying and something happening to my children and if they're out of my sight, then they aren't alive. And so I've had to really lean into that one. Lean into that one. And and our son, bless his heart, has given us or or me at least, a lot of exposures in that one in just, let's see, TikTok the first month that he's been on that campus. So Since I texted him yesterday and I I got a reply l later. I'm surprised you got it to reply today. Like it's three to five business days, man. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what it feels like. You know. It's like, okay, well. It is. It's you know, not only do we have OCD times twice in our household, but we're also of a certain age and stage and generation in our life, Mark and I, to where we are becoming parents of teenagers, parents of young adults. empty nesters, et cetera. And that means additional challenges for us too that have nothing to do with O C D and then add O C D on top of it. Brings that extra layer too. And that's why we like to talk about our life circumstances as well as what we have learned through our O C D journey. Because no matter what day it is, no matter what time it is, I have OCD and I will have OCD. And I just now know how to manage it better. I know how to recognize it better. And so that helps immensely. But anything that takes our family onto a new journey or or any new challenges or changes, we have to be cognizant of what that's going to do to my OCD. And we also have to be very careful of what that's going to do. To Avery's O C D. Yeah. I and one one thing I do know that with your O C D itself, if if I think if we knew early on that you had it and you were choosing not to get help for it and go through ERP, that that probably would have put a little bit more strain into our I think so. Our relationship and our kids stuff. I can absolutely see that. You know, I I definitely think i if that would have happened, I probably would have needed other support. Yes. For dealing with that. So I I'm very thankful that you decided to lean into it and get the support and the help with it. And I was able and I was and I was it was hard, but I was ready. Yeah, and I I was very thankful that I was able to step in and and be part of those sessions with you to have a really much better understanding of it. And that's why I've made the progress I have. Yeah. And we account for that, you and I, and we account with that through our therapist as well, who recognizes the same thing. What we did in terms of my intervention, what we did in terms of my intensives was very unique in that you were present and there for all the sessions. And and and that has translated over into For Avery as well. Like she'll meet with our therapist one on one and then we come together as a family. Yes. And talk about sometimes, you know, what they they talked about as far as the ERP type of stuff that she needs to work through. You know, and I read so many, you know, different Facebook groups and stuff where supporting each other with with the spouse with O C D and one of the one of the common threads that I see is that Yes, that that their spouse might want to have get treatment, might be on medication, might be doing ERP, but only goes and does like two or three sessions and then they they stop doing it. I think one of the the biggest misses in that side is they're not doing it together. Yeah. They're they're letting their spouse with the O C D go and do the therapy without being there with their by their side. We're not what you'd call the most accountable right at the beginning to the exposures to even some of the psychoeducation that we might not think applies to us and then dig deeper and yes actually it does. so we're not always the most able to be accountable. And I think that that translates beyond people who just have OCD, right? I think left to our own devices, sometimes we don't always have accountability we should. But given a support person, support team, support people in place to help that along, man, it makes all the difference. And if we can do our part for this community and this podcast to reach out to those of you who are still struggling with OCD, who have a spouse with OCD, who have a child with OCD, because of course we're parents of a child with OCD as well ourselves. Like that's why OCD and this podcast has become such a important part of our family and important part of our life. And we just want to strengthen this community and strengthen the knowledge base out there for people who who often might maybe misunderstand OCD. We've talked about that before as well. And that's something I see a lot on social media, et cetera, as well. misdiagnosed, I think, knowing that I just thought And for years and years since I was a teenager, I just thought, I have anxiety. Like that's just me. I have anxiety. It's fine. I'll be fine. Everything's fine. Knowing now that my little speech to myself was an actual compulsion. And so many other things I was doing then and now were compulsions. But I think for the ERP itself, like if you would have gone by yourself and then come h you know, would have come home and well, let's let's back up from that one. I would have been picking you up from therapy, driving you to therapy and picking you up from therapy. I probably would have been sitting in the car waiting for you to I have an excellent driver now. And I'm I'm ready for Formula One, man. I think they're I think they're ready for me. Yeah, those couple of red light or the speeding photo radar tickets that you've gotten. Yes. Of course you are. Come on, man. I'm the one. I'm ready. Mario Andre over there. Bring me to it. Bring it. Let's do it. But I think if if You would have gone to the therapy on your own. Yep. And then got in the car and was like, yeah, this is what we talked about, you know, and and I and you can't reassure me, you know, five times, you know, during the week. And I get two free passes. You know, but during therapy, you know, when we would take and talk about how many passes I felt would be an appropriate number and your appropriate number were two different numbers. They were. And I wonder why was it never my appropriate number? Why did it always get to a year appropriate number? Eighty sound good. Yeah. Eighty sounded good. But I think if you would have come back and and told me this is what I was supposed to do, I wouldn't have had the the No, it wouldn't have hit. No. No. Isn't that what the kids say now? Yeah. I don't know. No, they don't. Never mind. I don't know. But I I don't think it would have would have made the difference. Yeah. And you and your your journey would have probably been twice as long. I agree. I agree. And there might have been some starting and stopping. Yeah. But because I had my partner, my best friend by my side, it made all the difference. And I and I know that's something you and I haven't talked about in a while. Uh-huh. It's been, you know, probably ten, fifteen episodes since we actually talked about the our therapy journey that I was doing it with you. I think it's worth another little bit of time. Yeah. And that's not that's one reason why I brought it up another one, yeah. But bringing it up tonight. You know, it's like if you if I wasn't a part of that journey, I you know, both you know, myself and our therapist and you all agree that you probably would not have had as much of a success. 100%. And I think you hearing it for yourself and you getting to really dive in with our therapist too, into what an exposure meant, how to make it work in the home environment, how to h keep holding me accountable, how to interact with me when I wanted to engage in compulsions, or when I wanted or when I didn't want to, but when I would get overwhelmed with a panic attack. I remember some of those initial nights. Those were really hard. And we love each other, y'all, but It's hard to watch. Yeah. Okay. It was hard to watch. No, I believe it. I'm teasing you. But I the the idea is that yeah, it was hard. And and we love each other. We've been a team for many, many years. We've been raising our family together. We've had ups and downs just as any married couple would have. OCD just added to the challenge that we had. Yeah. And I think early on when I would panic. And I got myself up there. And that's part of the exposures, y'all, is you get yourself up to that level. And then you have to bring yourself down without engaging in the compulsion, right? Without checking in, for example, without checking in to get Mark's reassurance that everything was going to be okay. I had to just sit in that discomfort. And that's what elevated the panic. And he would have to just sit there or say his famous phrase. I'm not sure. That was it. And I think that it was sometimes. We joke about it now and I and I'm absolutely willing to joke about it now. But I think there was some times early on when we weren't joking. I was ticked off. yeah. I was really angry that you weren't you weren't coming to me where I needed you to be. And yet at the very same time, that's exactly what you were doing. But so, like, you know, the the journey that we, you know, we did together. I think, you know, if you plan on doing the journey with with somebody to help you through your O C D it has to be somebody that you A can trust. Yeah. Somebody that that goes without you you have a a strong relationship understanding with, whether it's a brother, a sister, a husband, a wife, you know, a child, you know best friend, any best friend, yeah, any coworker. Yeah. Somebody that you can trust that can hold you accountable. Mm-hmm. I think that's a game changer when it comes to the OCD therapy side of the world. I agree. And and I know our therapist would say the same thing too. And you know, we were it's not usually done that way. It's usually one-on-one therapy. And, you know, we we did it a little bit different. Or the intensives can be in a group setting, an outpatient group setting. Yep. And some and there are some sessions where family members would be invited in, which is phenomenal. But the idea that we took off on, which was that he was present for every session. He was coming home with me every week, also preparing exposures for me on his own, because he had gained enough confidence in it and knowledge about it that he could do it on his own too. And I will say that took a huge level of trust between he and I, because that's not necessarily, you know, we've had a husband and wife, best friend married relationship all of these years. But for us to take on that challenge together too was a testament to on top of closing a business too, all at the same time. Yeah. yeah, we did that too. Well Not exactly how we wanted to go about launching our intensive treatment or getting help for O C D, but it was what it was. It is what it is. And now eighteen months, two years later, we are in a much different space and we couldn't be happier about that. And so again, we just want to provide this community with all the resources we can, our story, our journey. Invite you all on to the podcast. We'd love to hear from you. We'd love to hear any perspectives you have about O C D, about ERP treatment, and just what your journey has been with obsessive compulsive disorder. Safe place. Absolutely. Safe place to share and and This isn't I mean, you and I are are introverts. Yes. You know, by by trade, you know, and but you know, unfortunately the jobs that we do, we have to be extroverts. But we come home and we're, you know, in our own our own thing. And this is the podcast is a was something that you and I never thought we would do and we just decided to do it one day. And it's exciting. And we jumped in. It is, and it's it's really gratifying to reach out and to share. Yeah. And it it does feel good to share. Mm-hmm. you know, and every time we we have a we do an episode and stuff, it does bring up things that we end up talking about in therapy too. It's like, yeah, you know, this is something that we didn't realize was happening until we started talking about it. Because day to day we don't sit and talk about her O C D. You know, it's it's not not anymore. Not anymore. It it no, definitely not anymore. It but You know, every now and then we have a conversation about it. It's this time where we sit down and we really talk about, you know, how your OCD has impacted us. And you know, so if if there anybody out there that wants to come on and and share their story, we're willing to, you know, make that happen. And, you know, if the but we want to thank everybody for continuing to listen and and for living uncertain with us. Yes. Have a great day. Thank y'all. Until next time. Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form.