Latest / Identity at the Center / #334 - Identiverse 2025 Preview with Andi Hindle

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#334 - Identiverse 2025 Preview with Andi Hindle · Identity at the Center

• 0:00
  You don't just want to sit in a chair and listen to people talk
• 0:02
  about stuff. You want to engage with the rest
• 0:05
  of the industry, talk to people you don't get the opportunity to
• 0:07
  talk to. You know, there will be people
• 0:11
  there whose names you may recognize, who are involved in
• 0:15
  standards and specifications, who you know, are deeply
• 0:18
  involved in, you know, writing the rules for how passkey works,
• 0:23
  for example, a web auth N right, updating a wolf, right the way
• 0:28
  through to folks who are doing literally solving the same
• 0:31
  problem that you're solving, but just at a different enterprise.
• 0:34
  And so the opportunity to get together with those folks in a,
• 0:38
  you know, less formal context and share stories, share
• 0:42
  knowledge, share approaches, help people grow in their
• 0:46
  careers and develop in their careers and change their career.
• 0:49
  All of that goes on and later in the verse as well.
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  And now I'm going to cheat and I'm going to turn the question
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  around because I know you guys have both been to Identverse
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  multiple times. So I would love to know from you
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  what Identverse is for you guys. This is identity at the centre
• 1:10
  if it has anything to do with IAM.
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  This is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and Jeff
• 1:19
  Stedman. Welcome to the Identity at the
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  Center podcast. I'm Jeff and S Jim.
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  Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you?
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  I'm OK. How are you?
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  Good. I had a little bit of a stutter
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  there. Huh.
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  You did. But I was about to say good
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  morning, Jeff. But I guess that would be, even
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  though it is morning that we're recording, that would be very
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  unusual for the beginning of the show.
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  So I decided to stick to How are you?
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  I think the the morning delay is showing, right?
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  It's like, OK, hold on a SEC, we still got to get woken up here
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  and start the brain starts firing.
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  I've got to get my caffeine in still, but you know one thing I
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  do in the morning? As I scroll through LinkedIn and
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  this morning I came across a post by our friend Henrique
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  Tashara over at Savior and his post was about a new Gartner
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  paper that was that just came out and it was putting some
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  definition around this idea of non human identities.
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  Talked about non human identities and machine
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  identities and what the difference is and so they set up
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  a framework where machine identities is actually a subset
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  of human identity or non human identities.
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  And also the other type of non human identities are software
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  identities. And that kind of maps to the
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  framework that I've always had in mind, which is when you think
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  about non human identities, there's workloads software and
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  there's devices or machines and I I started to kind of question
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  my framework and think that, you know, the Gartner framework
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  probably makes a little more sense.
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  So devices that it's not that the word devices using the
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  English language is a bad word for machines.
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  I mean, they're kind of like synonyms, but I think in our
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  minds, devices are your phone, your tablet, maybe a kiosk or
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  something like that. So it is more narrowed down and
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  it would exclude IoT like a thermostat or something built
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  into a manufacturing device. Also workloads you might not
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  think of like service accounts in your Active Directory as a
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  workload. You might, even though I think
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  technically it is. So I think it's nomenclature.
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  This kind of maps to what I was thinking, but here's the thing
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  that it took that was I thought funny was that Gartner's
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  definition of non human identities also includes
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  organizational entities and animals.
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  And it's like an animals. That's pretty interesting.
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  Like what is an animal identity? And then I started thinking, OK,
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  well, potentially animals could have chips inserted into them
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  and things like that. So maybe that's where they're
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  going with it. What?
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  What are your thoughts? I don't know.
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  I don't know where where this was going.
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  So I was trying to figure it out.
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  I was thinking when you said animals, for whatever reason, my
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  mind jumped like neural link and the monkeys are, you know, I
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  guess a chick and an animal makes sense.
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  I guess it's not human. So we have to have some way to
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  classify non human organic beings.
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  Now I'm starting to think like we're talking like the Borg or
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  something like that. I mean, I, you know, human and
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  non human makes sense. I think it used to be carbon and
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  non carbon based. So this is the great thing about
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  identity is there's always a new framework, a new, you know, way
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  to look at things, a different definition for the same words
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  that we use in other parts of the language.
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  The key part will be making sure that everyone understands the
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  context that we're talking about.
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  But yeah, the animal one threw me for a loop there for a second
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  and I was like, OK, I guess, you know, that is something we have
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  to consider. Yeah, that was the later part of
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  my morning. Yeah, Can you imagine?
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  You know, I need to send an e-mail to my my dog.
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  And they have their own, they have their own ship and their
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  own identity and their own account.
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  I don't know how that would work.
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  I mean, if it makes sense. I've got GPS trackers with the,
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  you know, trackers and accounts, you know, for my, for my, my
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  furry friends. But.
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  Well, yeah, I was thinking for your dogs, Jeff, you probably
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  might be offended by that definition to call them non
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  humans. Oh, they're non humans.
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  I mean, look, my dogs are my kids, but I'm, I'm not that that
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  so far. You haven't gone that far yet,
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  right? Yet.
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  Right. I don't dress them up, you know.
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  So there is still a a distinction there that we draw
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  and they ride in the back in a hammock.
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  Though there you go. Yes.
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  OK I was going to say the leash thing but some people have
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  leashes too so go down that route.
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  Yeah. OK.
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  Well, I think we've kind of like gone off track a little bit.
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  Maybe we should get into or it's just a bit outside, maybe we
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  should just go over our conferences.
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  Yes, we've got London coming up. So this is going to be coming
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  out the week of March, but coming up March 24th, the 25th
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  is the London Gartner IAM Summit.
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  If you use the code ID AC425, you say 425 euros, I believe
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  some currency 425 amount of some people want to check that out.
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  And before I get too far along, you know, all these will be our
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  in our show notes below, but they'll also be on our website
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  idacpodcast.com if you just Scroll down and anything that
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  we've got active for, you know, discounts will be there too.
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  So you and I will not be there. But the one that we will be at
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  and that we're both looking forward to is in Berlin this May
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  6th or 9th and that is the European identity and cloud
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  conference. We're going to be there.
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  We've got a discount code. So thanks out to the conference
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  folks there. ID, AC25, NKO get you 25% off,
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  which is pretty cool. We're going to be doing some
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  podcasting and then you're taking vacation before that and
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  ending Europe in Berlin. I'm starting Europe in Berlin
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  and then taking about a week off after that to tour somewhere and
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  then go from there, so looking forward to that.
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  Yeah, it's going to be fun stuff.
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  So I'm going to Oslo the week before we're going to do
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  identity beer. It's probably going to be the
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  Wednesday before Berlin. So if it's if it's possible, if
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  that's going to work for you and the the Wednesday part is not
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  guaranteed, it could wind up being Tuesday, for example.
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  Please reach out to or just start with by reaching out to me
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  and I'll loop you in with the rest of the group.
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  But expecting a pretty good turn out.
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  Yeah, it's pretty cool. I don't have any plans at this
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  part. My life.
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  I still have not. I have a flight to Berlin but I
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  as of right now have no exit planned to the US, so I'm still.
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  Are you sure you're coming home? I may not.
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  Who knows, I might have decided just to stay.
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  I always, I liked London, I like Paris.
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  So, you know, international man of mystery.
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  We'll just leave it at that. Yeah, but I do have to actually
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  come back for Dan Denver's conference because that's coming
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  up right after that. That's June 3rd to the 6th.
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  Denver's 2025, and we have a conference for that one as well.
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  IDV 25-I D AC2525 percent off. Hopefully people are able to
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  take advantage of early bird discounts.
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  I think by the time people listen to this, at least one set
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  of early birds will be gone. I'm not sure what it'll look
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  like on Monday when this people people are starting to listen to
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  this, but that code still is in effect.
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  So people can take advantage of that.
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  And obviously if you've read the title for this episode, you know
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  that we're going to be talking to Andy Handle here in a minute.
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  But let me get the, let me get that out again.
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  IDV 25-IDC25. That gets you 25% off.
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  And then let's talk about authenticate real quick because
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  I know Jim, that's going to be coming up.
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  And right now the plan is you and I are going to be there as
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  well for that. Yeah.
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  You really need to be thinking about it early in terms of if
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  you want to be a speaker, get your your paper submitted.
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  I know that that's already closed for Identiverse for
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  example. So folks, you really need to be
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  thinking ahead and getting those applications in early.
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  But I think the proposals are due no later than March 3rd.
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  So this would probably be the last time we announced this, but
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  go out to authenticatecon.com and you'll easily find a link to
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  submit a proposal for speaking at the Authenticate conference.
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  Yep. So let's go ahead and get into
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  our Identiverse 2025 preview. The last time this gentleman was
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  on the the show was last year's preview.
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  We were drunk and record like man, we got to get you on and
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  talk about other identity things.
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  Something just identity verse. So I want to welcome back for
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  the 5th time, Andy Handel. He's the conference chair for
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  identity verse. Welcome back, Andy.
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  It's yet again a delight to be here.
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  Thank you for having me on. Well, the pleasure is all on
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  this side of the table. But before we get too far, let's
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  talk about Identiverse. Let's hear straight from, you
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  know, the source. What?
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  Is identiverse. See, that's that's just a big
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  question to start with, right. You want to start with something
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  small and we could talk about non human identity some more for
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  a bit that kind of warm up to what is identity.
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  So look identiverse. I've been involved for what 10
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  This will be my 11th 1. The event itself has been
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  running for 16 years this year. These days, I think it's fair to
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  say that we are the primary digital identity, identity and
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  access management conference and event in in the calendar.
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  I think, you know, our audience tends to be the core digital
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  identity professional, right? So folks who are doing this work
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  day in, day out, figuring out how to keep our identity safe,
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  how to keep our company safe, how to keep our organization
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  safe, how to enable people, right?
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  How to make, you know, customers, consumers, citizens
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  able to, to access their stuff in a Safeway and how to keep
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  people appropriately private in, in that process, right.
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  So, you know, at, at the most basic level, that's what
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  Identiverse is. What that means is that we have
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  4 days of full on conference content.
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  We'll talk a little bit about that I'm sure in a minute.
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  Alongside of that, we've got a pretty large show floor where we
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  have lots of sponsors doing lots of things, talking about all the
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  different ways that they can solve problems for folks, lots
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  of entertainment around the edge, right?
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  So we've, we've tried for years and we continue to do this to
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  make, you know, you're going to be at a conference for a week,
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  right? You don't just want to sit in a
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  chair and listen to people talk about stuff.
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  You want to engage with the rest of the industry talk to people
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  you don't get the opportunity to talk to.
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  You know there will be people there whose names you may
• 12:05
  recognize who are involved in standards and specifications,
• 12:09
  who you know are deeply involved in, you know, writing the rules
• 12:15
  for how pass key works. For example, a web auth N right
• 12:18
  updating a wolf right the way through to folks who are doing
• 12:22
  literally solving the same problem that you're solving but
• 12:25
  just at a different enterprise. And so the opportunity to get
• 12:28
  together with those folks in a, you know, less formal context
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  and share stories, share knowledge, share approaches,
• 12:37
  help people grow in their careers and develop in their
• 12:40
  careers and change their career, all of that goes on in Idani
• 12:43
  verse as well. And now I'm going to cheat and
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  I'm going to turn the question around because I know you guys
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  have both been to Idani verse multiple times.
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  So I would love to know from you what Idani verse is for you
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  guys. You know, for me it hit right
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  when you said the doers is kind of what I have always thought of
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  it of is, you know, real identity, people doing real
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  identity things. Some of it is obviously is
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  conceptual and some of the ideas that are planted there, but it's
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  just a lot of people, really smart people, fun people.
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  It's a great community and you get to see and hear from those
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  folks. I think Identity Versus has done
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  a really good job over the last several years of really
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  incorporating new and existing voices in the space.
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  You know, obviously, you know, the existing voice has been
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  around for a while, but we need to continue to promote new
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  voices, new ideas, you know, new things like that that that come
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  out and and encourage people to continue to give back to the
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  community. So I'm excited about that.
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  But yeah, you hit it right in the head.
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  I was like, these are the doers that are showing up for for this
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  type of stuff. And you can kind of, you know,
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  commiserate to some degree. You can articulate and you know,
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  ideate, you know what the most people hold and and you can also
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  eat folks you know in in Vegas. So that's kind of what it means
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  to me. Jim, what do you think?
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  What it when you think about Denver's?
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  Well, I think that Denver's probably the largest conference
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  in the space now, but there are a couple that are, you know,
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  similarly sized, but I think at least for vendor agnostic
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  conferences is probably the largest.
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  I think it pulls together a fantastic group of
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  practitioners, people that I mean, I make new contacts every
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  year. So I think a big part of it for
• 14:25
  me is about the networking opportunities, sitting with
• 14:29
  people at, you know, at various events like lunches and
• 14:34
  breakfasts and things like that. Also just attending the, the
• 14:39
  sessions and hearing people talk and understanding.
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  I, you know, what one thing that Andy mentioned that to me I
• 14:48
  completely connected with was hearing, you know, you're at
• 14:51
  Enterprise and you're hearing what another enterprise did
• 14:55
  already and how, what their success story was because
• 14:59
  they're not going to usually come and present about a
• 15:01
  failure. You know, there are sessions
• 15:04
  almost every year where they talk about like, hey, these are
• 15:07
  things that we've done in the past that have failed and here's
• 15:10
  things to avoid and pitfalls to avoid.
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  All that is how you grow your own personal body of knowledge.
• 15:18
  You know, there's things that there's only so much that you
• 15:20
  can do. The rest you have to learn from
• 15:22
  other people. And it's a great place through
• 15:25
  either personal interactions or sitting in on these sessions
• 15:28
  where you learn from other people and they learn from you.
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  And then you make these connections that last beyond the
• 15:34
  conference and you know, they turn into friendships over the
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  years. Yeah, good question, Andy.
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  Kind of like, OK, you know, and I think there's a little bit of
• 15:44
  something for everybody too. I don't think that this is for
• 15:47
  not necessarily just for like experienced people.
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  I love seeing new folks to the space come to the.
• 15:53
  Yeah. And I'm actually glad you
• 15:54
  mentioned that. And you mentioned that the, you
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  know, hearing from new voices as well, right.
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  And both of those aspects are, are things that have been really
• 16:03
  important to us over the years in which we continue to really
• 16:05
  focus on. So one of the things we started
• 16:08
  a couple of years ago in conjunction with ID Pro is that
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  we started a newcomer session which runs right before the sort
• 16:18
  of main conference agenda starts.
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  The first year that we did it, actually the first year we
• 16:25
  experimented with it, it really was an experiment and it was
• 16:29
  very last minute, very thrown together and it told us enough
• 16:32
  that we had to do it properly the following year.
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  So the following year we did, we gave it some actual space and we
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  put it on the agenda and we, you know, we let people know it was
• 16:40
  happening. Got some really good feedback
• 16:43
  out of that. In fact, we had so many people
• 16:46
  attend that that they didn't fit in the room that we allocated
• 16:48
  because we were just guessing. We're like, oh, I don't know,
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  maybe like 50 people will show up and we have like 250 in this
• 16:54
  room. So last year we had a much
• 16:58
  larger space, you know, with, with dedicated time.
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  And again, I mean, it was absolutely full to bursting.
• 17:07
  So I usually try and show up at this thing and just kind of say
• 17:09
  hi and welcome so that, you know, folks who haven't been to
• 17:11
  the conference before. Mostly what you see of me that
• 17:14
  week is I'm up on the mainstage kind of orchestrating things or
• 17:18
  I'm rushing around, you know, trying to fix stuff behind the
• 17:21
  scenes or I'm asleep. But, you know, it's nice,
• 17:25
  particularly for the new folks for me to actually be in, in a
• 17:27
  smaller space and to say hi and welcome and, and do those
• 17:30
  things. So, so last year I was a little
• 17:32
  bit late and I, I kind of got there and everyone was already
• 17:35
  in this room and I was trying to get, you know, up to the front.
• 17:39
  So I kind of, you know, worm my way through and I get to the
• 17:41
  front and I say four or five things and I'm like, and I'm
• 17:44
  really sorry I've got to go. So I've got a keynote rehearsal
• 17:46
  and, and off I go. And behind me, I can hear
• 17:48
  Heather Flanagan, who was running this session together
• 17:51
  with Alan Foster. Same.
• 17:53
  For those of you who don't know, that was Andy, who's the
• 17:56
  conference? I totally forgot to introduce
• 17:58
  myself. So yeah, you know, we try really
• 18:02
  hard to make it a welcoming environment for folks who either
• 18:07
  haven't been to the conference before or haven't been to a
• 18:09
  conference like this one before or who are new in, you know,
• 18:12
  relatively new to the industry and and kind of don't know where
• 18:15
  to start. Right.
• 18:16
  But the other thing that's really important you mention
• 18:19
  this is, is the new voices. So for those who don't know who,
• 18:23
  who haven't, you know, attended Identiverse before the
• 18:26
  Identiverse agenda, almost all of the, the conference agenda
• 18:31
  gets built out of a call for presentations, which, you know,
• 18:34
  to Jim's point earlier is closed.
• 18:36
  We've made those decisions. Thank you very much.
• 18:38
  Please play again next year. But we have a, a content
• 18:43
  committee that I have the honour of chairing and we spend, you
• 18:47
  know, basically six weeks from the beginning of January going
• 18:51
  through an enormous number of proposals and trying to figure
• 18:55
  out as best we can how to construct not just a high
• 18:59
  quality agenda, but also an agenda that touches on as many
• 19:04
  of the important topics as we can in any given year.
• 19:07
  Now, topics go in and out of favor, right?
• 19:10
  They are more or less important. There's more or less to say from
• 19:14
  one year to the next, but we try and construct something that's
• 19:18
  that's reasonably comprehensive. And so, yeah, that means
• 19:23
  including material that's suitable for folks who've been,
• 19:26
  you know, doing these kinds of jobs for 15 years.
• 19:29
  It also means including material that's suitable for folks who,
• 19:32
  you know, just started last year out of university, right?
• 19:36
  But we also want to hear from people who haven't spoken
• 19:40
  before. And so one of the metrics that I
• 19:42
  look at is, you know, do we have a reasonable proportion of yes,
• 19:46
  well known, well recognized voices in the industry, folks,
• 19:51
  most of whom I know have been, you know, on on the show here,
• 19:53
  right? So folks like Ian Glaser and
• 19:55
  Nishant Kaushik and Heather Flanagan, who I mentioned
• 19:58
  earlier and Eve Mailer and so on and so forth.
• 20:00
  But we also want to have and we aim for about 50%.
• 20:03
  We're usually pretty close. We want to have around about
• 20:07
  half of our our agenda be voices that we haven't heard from
• 20:10
  before, whether those are people who.
• 20:13
  Are. Seasoned presenters who just
• 20:17
  happened to have not spoken on identifiers before or whether
• 20:19
  they really are, you know, brand new and we get a mix of that.
• 20:23
  I think that's really, really important to make sure that that
• 20:26
  we continue to offer those sorts of opportunities and that
• 20:29
  people, people can hear, you know, fresh perspective every
• 20:34
  time, every year they come along.
• 20:36
  Yeah, I love, I love hearing new ideas and, you know, keep it up,
• 20:40
  I guess, right? Let's try to keep it fresh.
• 20:42
  I think it's the one thing that helps prevent it from getting
• 20:43
  stale. We talked about what it is and
• 20:48
  when it is. Is June 3rd to the 6th?
• 20:51
  Jim, do you have something you want to bring up here?
• 20:53
  Yeah, I just wanted to just tag off of, so you talked about
• 20:56
  people like Heather Flanagan and Alan Foster, and we've had both
• 21:00
  of them actually on the podcast. And Alan came on to talk about
• 21:04
  the the Mount Rush, War of Identity.
• 21:07
  And he named a lot of people that folks who are listeners
• 21:12
  probably didn't even know. There's people he mentioned a
• 21:14
  few people that I had never heard of.
• 21:17
  So you know, Alan's been in the industry since the 90s, but you
• 21:21
  go and meet him and it's like you could be brand new, never
• 21:24
  gone to Identiverse before and he's going to treat you as an
• 21:27
  equal. And, and I think that's the
• 21:30
  community and identity Pro like kind of embodies that community
• 21:36
  and Identiverse is the place that we get to meet up in
• 21:40
  person. So, yeah, I, you know, you talk
• 21:42
  about Alan, I think he's the quintessential example of this.
• 21:46
  But I think that everyone in the industry behaves the same way,
• 21:49
  right? And, and you see that day-to-day
• 21:51
  in the industry, but I think you see a particular idea of this.
• 21:53
  I think we talked about this last year that you know, it,
• 21:57
  it's easy to go to these things if you're new and to feel like
• 22:00
  you can't go up to people and talk to them.
• 22:03
  And I would really encourage people to to go up.
• 22:06
  The worst thing anyone's going to say to you is, look, I'm
• 22:08
  really sorry I don't have time right now.
• 22:09
  Let me try and catch you later, right?
• 22:11
  That's the worst that's going to happen.
• 22:13
  Much more likely is you get in a conversation with somebody and
• 22:17
  that leads to one of those connections, Jim, that you were
• 22:19
  talking about that can, you know, change a career, right?
• 22:24
  Yeah, I mean, I think Doug, this is an open invite.
• 22:27
  If you see me walking around the halls, I, you know, please come
• 22:30
  up, say hello. I love to meet new people.
• 22:34
  And I think you'll find that that is a attitude shared by
• 22:37
  99.9% of the people who are at these things.
• 22:41
  Yeah, we might be busy and know something, but, you know, I try
• 22:43
  to make the point of like, hey, can we talk in half an hour?
• 22:46
  Or hey, can we meet over here later?
• 22:47
  But please come up, say hello. You know, we, we love to meet
• 22:51
  new people, especially Jim and I.
• 22:53
  So, you know, and you'll be able to spot Jim.
• 22:55
  I'm sure he's usually wearing some some funky jacket if we're
• 22:59
  in Texas, maybe even a cowboy hat, you know, definitely, you
• 23:03
  know, come up and say hello and and and meet new people.
• 23:07
  Look, I get it, you know, and everybody's, you know, as
• 23:10
  socially, you know, adept, maybe feel a little bit awkward.
• 23:13
  I used to be the same way. Now it's just like, Hey, I'm
• 23:15
  Jeff, blah, blah, blah. Great to meet you.
• 23:17
  Cool, that's it, right, You know, or maybe we can get a
• 23:19
  conversation about something. So please come up and say hello.
• 23:23
  Speaking of coming up and say hello, Andy, this is in Las
• 23:26
  Vegas, which I love. I love Las Vegas.
• 23:29
  I know that I feel like I'm I'm slowly getting into the minority
• 23:32
  of people who like Las Vegas. But if someone who doesn't
• 23:35
  really gamble, doesn't really drink, but loves kind of the the
• 23:38
  show and the environments and the excitement and then the the
• 23:42
  plethora of activities and food options.
• 23:46
  Tell me a bit about where this is going to be because it's not
• 23:48
  at the Aria like it was last year.
• 23:49
  We've changed locations. It's not at the Aria, you are
• 23:52
  right. It is at the Mandalay Bay.
• 23:54
  Now I need to preface this with a couple of things.
• 23:57
  The first is that my only interactions with Vegas have
• 24:01
  been in the context of identivers.
• 24:03
  And so I don't get to see very much, right.
• 24:05
  I see the inside of the venue and that's it.
• 24:08
  And the other thing is that I've never actually been to the
• 24:11
  Mandalay Bay, right. So I, I wasn't able to go, we
• 24:14
  normally do a site visit and, and the rest of the team were
• 24:16
  able to do that. I just couldn't make the dates.
• 24:19
  And so I'm kind of working off a floor plan and figuring out
• 24:22
  where things are going to be. But I literally can't tell you
• 24:24
  the first thing about, you know, what the Mandalay Bay experience
• 24:27
  is going to be like. I do know that lots of people
• 24:29
  have been there and probably have some good perspective.
• 24:33
  I think, you know, on a very practical level, my
• 24:36
  understanding is that we have a lot more space available to us
• 24:40
  at the Mandalay, right? It's, it's going to be a much
• 24:43
  more spacious environment for us to be in.
• 24:47
  We can do more on the show floor.
• 24:49
  We can do more in the breakouts we've got.
• 24:51
  It's it's just bigger and, and better in that sense.
• 24:56
  Beyond that, I, I. That's as much as I know.
• 25:01
  Well, let me fill in the gap because I've been there I guess
• 25:04
  several times at this point. It's a great spot.
• 25:06
  It is down at the very South end of the strip.
• 25:09
  It's kind of near Luxor. It's probably the next closest
• 25:11
  hotel. So if you stay, you can either
• 25:13
  stay at M and delay and walk over to Conference Center and
• 25:16
  there's plenty of food options, plenty of things to do and the
• 25:20
  tram that runs. So it's a good spot.
• 25:21
  It's a good location. You know, they're well set up
• 25:24
  for it. So I think hopefully, you know,
• 25:26
  I think you'll be kind of pleased with the with the
• 25:28
  wakeworms out. I like it.
• 25:29
  I think it's good. That's Vegas.
• 25:30
  You can kind of get anywhere pretty quickly either, you know,
• 25:33
  on public transport or Ubers and Lyfts and cabs and stuff like
• 25:36
  that. So it's a good spot.
• 25:38
  Definitely, definitely approve. The one thing that I will give
• 25:43
  as a pro tip is always try to stay at the conference hotel
• 25:47
  because you do not want to be walking.
• 25:48
  You know, Luxor is the next closest, but it's a, you know,
• 25:51
  it's a good 15 to 20 minute walk to go from Luxor all the way to
• 25:56
  the opposite end of Mandalay, which is where the Conference
• 25:59
  Center is. So you definitely want to be as
• 26:01
  close as possible and and stay in Mandalay if you can.
• 26:03
  Yeah. And I, I, I think that's a good
• 26:05
  tip generally, to be honest, right, For anything that's,
• 26:08
  that's, you know, larger than, I don't know, say 50 to 100
• 26:12
  people, right? Really being in the same place
• 26:14
  as where everybody else is or the majority of people, I think
• 26:18
  is really helpful. It's more convenient for you,
• 26:21
  right? If you get tired, you can just
• 26:22
  go and, and bail. This is always an issue for me
• 26:25
  with jet lag, right? But it also means that, that,
• 26:29
  that those serendipitous encounters, right?
• 26:32
  The chance meeting at a bar or, you know, out for a run in the
• 26:36
  morning or in the gym or whatever it might be is much
• 26:40
  more likely to happen because everyone's in that same space.
• 26:43
  So I would, I would take advantage of that.
• 26:44
  I think you're right. Yeah, I think that's always a
• 26:48
  good pro tip. So Andy, I wanted to kind of
• 26:51
  transition into the content that people are going to come away
• 26:55
  from the conference with. So the the focus that I think I
• 27:01
  wanted to take on this was you guys have established a few
• 27:04
  topic areas. So let me first ask the general
• 27:07
  question. So is the topic mean?
• 27:10
  Is it equal to like a track? Like you get on a topic you're
• 27:14
  interested in non human identity, so you attend all the
• 27:19
  sessions in that topic or in that quote UN quote track.
• 27:23
  Is that how it works or is it something different?
• 27:26
  It's a little different and I'm really glad you asked the
• 27:28
  question. This is the biggest thing that I
• 27:30
  have struggled with year over year over year.
• 27:33
  And we've tweaked it and changed it and it still isn't perfect,
• 27:36
  but it works OK once you know how to deal with it.
• 27:39
  So we do not have tracks in the traditional sense.
• 27:44
  And by track, I think what most people understand is, is pretty
• 27:48
  much what you describe, Jim, right?
• 27:50
  Which is, OK, I'm interested in this thing.
• 27:54
  I'm going to go and sit in this room and hear about this thing
• 27:58
  for the next however long it is, right?
• 28:02
  We realized a long time ago, right?
• 28:05
  I mean this, this goes back to when I, when I first sort of
• 28:08
  started doing this, that identity is very horizontal and
• 28:17
  broadly applicable. And so it's actually really hard
• 28:21
  to build a track in that sense. People don't stick in those
• 28:26
  rooms, they move. And so, yeah, we have these
• 28:31
  topic areas and I'll, I'll talk through them in a second that
• 28:34
  act as one organizing principle. And that's helpful.
• 28:38
  It's really helpful for us for the, for the call for
• 28:40
  presentations and for building out the agenda.
• 28:43
  But what we tend to find is that people then will will migrate
• 28:47
  across different paths through the through the content.
• 28:53
  Sometimes that's to do with the vertical sector.
• 28:56
  So if you happen to work in banking, it may very well be
• 29:01
  that you go and you identify all of the things that are directly
• 29:05
  relevant to banking, whether that's because it's being, you
• 29:09
  know, specifically about a bank. So this year we've got several
• 29:12
  things about open banking because there are some changes
• 29:14
  coming in in the US that are going to have some impact there.
• 29:17
  So you might say, OK, well, there's a thing about open
• 29:20
  banking in the architecture and standards topic.
• 29:23
  I want to understand how open banking works.
• 29:25
  I'm going to go and listen to that.
• 29:27
  Then there's a thing about, I'm making some of these upright.
• 29:29
  There's a thing about open banking security and the
• 29:32
  security topic here. I'm going to go and listen to
• 29:34
  that somewhere else. And then there are these three
• 29:36
  presentations by somebody from M&T, someone from Capital One
• 29:40
  and someone from First Insurance that are all in deployment that
• 29:45
  are interesting to me because I also work in the bank, right?
• 29:49
  And so there I've gone through, you know, two different,
• 29:54
  actually three different topic areas and I've selected things
• 29:57
  based on the material in a couple of cases and the
• 30:01
  presenter in a couple of other cases.
• 30:04
  And that's typically the behaviour that we see.
• 30:07
  So back to the start of the question, right?
• 30:11
  We have and, and these have been consistent now for, I want to
• 30:15
  say 3 or 4 years, if if not a few more.
• 30:18
  We've got 8 primary topic areas that we look at and those are in
• 30:23
  alphabetical order because that's the order I've got them
• 30:25
  written down. And I have got them written down
• 30:27
  because otherwise I'm bound to forget one.
• 30:29
  And then those people will be very upset that I, it's like
• 30:31
  Oscars, right? It's like, I want to say thank
• 30:33
  you to my mom and my dad and Oh no, I forgot my cat.
• 30:37
  So we have architecture standards and standards and
• 30:42
  engineering. We have a thing that we made-up
• 30:45
  which is C3 IAM. So that is customer, consumer
• 30:50
  and citizen and we wrap them all together.
• 30:53
  But if you put all the words, really it ends up really long.
• 30:55
  So we just made it C3 IAM. We have deployments, leading
• 30:59
  practices, identity for security, identity and business.
• 31:02
  And that one's really about the business impact of identity,
• 31:05
  right. So not how do I make money out
• 31:08
  of an identity, but what impact does my identity program have,
• 31:12
  you know, on my business or how can I explain to my business the
• 31:16
  impact that my identity program's going to have?
• 31:19
  I just say I love that topic, Andy, I know you and I've talked
• 31:21
  about this offline for the last couple years, but the business
• 31:24
  of I am is such an overlooked part of the identity space.
• 31:27
  I love to see content on it. So thank you, thank you, thank
• 31:29
  you. And thank you and we will.
• 31:31
  We will keep pushing on that one.
• 31:33
  It's so important because getting executives to understand
• 31:39
  why our stuff is important is hard.
• 31:42
  And some organizations have been really successful at it.
• 31:45
  And so hearing from them and then being able to take those
• 31:48
  arguments back to your enterprise and say, I, you know,
• 31:52
  this is what they're saying over at Chase.
• 31:55
  We might want to pay attention to that, right?
• 31:57
  Or, or wherever it is. Again, I'm, I'm picking company
• 31:59
  names out of thin air, but privacy and ethics, that one's
• 32:04
  close to my heart. It's one of those adjacent areas
• 32:07
  for us, but it's increasingly important and I think, you know,
• 32:11
  paying attention to it is, is very worthwhile professional
• 32:16
  skills and development. So that one's really about those
• 32:19
  soft skills. How do I develop my career?
• 32:21
  How do I present better? How do I present my ideas
• 32:23
  better? How do I make a business case
• 32:25
  better? Those sorts of things.
• 32:27
  And then vision, strategy and futures, which is exactly what
• 32:30
  it says on the tip, right? It's what's coming down the
• 32:32
  pipe. So, so those are kind of the,
• 32:36
  the core topic areas that we look at.
• 32:38
  But like I say, people are going to drift across those.
• 32:39
  And it's not like when you register, you have to say, oh,
• 32:43
  and please register me for this track, right?
• 32:45
  The whole thing is, is open with a full conference pass.
• 32:48
  You look at the agenda, spend a little time with it before you
• 32:51
  go and figure out which things are going to be most relevant to
• 32:54
  you. To help with that, over the last
• 32:58
  few years we've done a couple of other things.
• 33:00
  One is that we'll typically post some, you know, blogs or other
• 33:04
  articles in the run up to the conference, which will look at
• 33:08
  the agenda through different lenses.
• 33:09
  And we've we've played around with this different ways.
• 33:11
  I don't know exactly how we're going to do it this year, but
• 33:14
  we'll do something that will just surface some material and,
• 33:18
  and reorganize it in a slightly different way.
• 33:20
  So we've looked at it sectorally in previous years.
• 33:23
  You know, here are the things about banking, here are the
• 33:26
  things about manufacturing, here are the things about higher Ed.
• 33:30
  We've done it with sort of subsidiary topics, right?
• 33:35
  So we'll pick on passkey just for the sake of argument, right?
• 33:39
  Is there going to be some passkey material in the agenda
• 33:41
  this year? I think there is, but it's going
• 33:43
  to be spread out across different areas, right?
• 33:45
  There'll be some stuff about standards, right?
• 33:47
  What's coming, What's new? There's going to be some stuff
• 33:50
  about deployment, right? Here's how I rolled it out.
• 33:53
  There's going to be some stuff about security.
• 33:56
  Here are some, you know, Dean Sacks will probably come and
• 33:59
  talk about, you know, some of the concerns that he has and how
• 34:01
  to address those, right? How to make sure your deployment
• 34:03
  is safe. That's, you know, why these
• 34:08
  things turn up in different areas.
• 34:09
  And so we might very well do you know, a blog post that says, OK,
• 34:13
  if you're interested in in passkey and and password less
• 34:16
  hate that word, you know, here are the things that you might
• 34:20
  want to come and and and look at.
• 34:23
  So, so Andy, in in my mind, like as you're describing this, I'm
• 34:27
  almost thinking that these are like tags on the presentation.
• 34:31
  A presentation should be tagged with financial services
• 34:35
  presentations are are making the business case and pass keys.
• 34:40
  And if you're interested in one of those 3 verticals or topics
• 34:46
  or tags, that might be for you. In fact, if none of those are on
• 34:51
  you, you're still welcome to come in and sit in on that.
• 34:55
  Now I have a question for you. Are there sessions that you need
• 35:00
  to pre register for that? In other words, kind of limited
• 35:05
  space? So that's a really good
• 35:08
  question. I'm just going to pick up on the
• 35:10
  tags thing first up, because you're absolutely right.
• 35:13
  That's a really good way to think of it.
• 35:15
  We're somewhat constrained by the technology that gets used
• 35:20
  and and is available to us for things like the website and the
• 35:23
  mobile app in terms of how we can represent that out to the
• 35:26
  audience. So we've had years where we've
• 35:28
  had solutions that let us put those sort of, you know, tags in
• 35:32
  other years where we haven't. So we actually have that
• 35:35
  information in the back end. It's just whether we can easily
• 35:38
  make it available out in the front end.
• 35:40
  But, but it's, it's something that we, we've certainly tried
• 35:43
  to do and I know we'll try and do again if we can, but it's a
• 35:46
  good way to think of it. So if you're building your own
• 35:48
  agenda, that's, you know, that that's quite a useful thing to
• 35:50
  do. It's just look at it, you know,
• 35:51
  mark up the ones you're interested in with those kinds
• 35:53
  of tags and then just, you know, build it out that way.
• 35:56
  The other thing which just occurs to me as we're talking,
• 35:59
  which I'd be fascinated to see if somebody wants to experiment
• 36:02
  with this, wouldn't it be interesting to grab the whole
• 36:05
  agenda in a CSV, throw it at something like ChatGPT or Claude
• 36:11
  right, and say, hey, I'm interested in these things.
• 36:15
  Which session should I go to? I feel like somebody should do
• 36:21
  an experiment and let me know if that works or not.
• 36:25
  I'll be honest Andy, that's the first thing I thought of when we
• 36:27
  start thinking about tags like this.
• 36:28
  Sounds like a a total nerd project that I would totally be
• 36:31
  like, all right, let's throw this in here and let's like come
• 36:34
  up with a customized agenda personalized based on, you know,
• 36:38
  your topics of interest or whatever it be.
• 36:39
  But yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing.
• 36:41
  Like there's got to be an AI angle here, right?
• 36:43
  We can't get away from AI right at this point.
• 36:45
  So Jeff, you and I are going to do this as a side project.
• 36:48
  I will get the data for you in a useful format.
• 36:50
  I'd love for you to run that and see what the outcome is.
• 36:54
  And then let's come back around, you know, and, and let people
• 36:57
  know if it worked or if it didn't.
• 36:58
  I'd love to find out. Send it to me and I can mention
• 37:01
  on a future show as we get around to it, some of that so we
• 37:04
  can refer back to the, hey, here's where this started the
• 37:06
  idea. And who knows, maybe it's a good
• 37:09
  answer, maybe it's a silly answer.
• 37:10
  Who knows? Let's find out, right.
• 37:12
  So Jim's question which was are the things you have to pre
• 37:16
  register for. So for the longest time we have
• 37:20
  not done that and by and large that is still true.
• 37:25
  If you go back very early on, So way, way back I want to say like
• 37:31
  12-13, fourteen years ago, the very beginning we did used to
• 37:35
  have some, some they were actually called pre conference
• 37:38
  workshops at the time and we did require separate registration
• 37:42
  for those. We did away with them for a
• 37:44
  couple of reasons. One is frankly, we needed the
• 37:46
  time for the rest of the agenda and the other is that it does
• 37:49
  get complicated just just organizationally to manage all
• 37:52
  of that and checking in and checking out.
• 37:55
  And for that, for, you know, anyone listening and, and for
• 37:57
  you guys who've been to Idaniverse, you'll know that our
• 37:59
  sessions tend to be pretty short.
• 38:01
  And so, and the gaps in between are not long.
• 38:04
  So, you know, you suddenly start having to scan sort of, you
• 38:08
  know, 300 people into a room and then 300 people out of a room.
• 38:11
  It, it doesn't really flow terribly well.
• 38:14
  So most of the agenda, and this is true again this year, most of
• 38:18
  the agenda, pretty much all of the agenda actually is available
• 38:22
  to you if you have a full conference pass, right?
• 38:25
  The one exception to that this year is something new that we're
• 38:28
  adding. So this year the conference
• 38:32
  formally starts on Tuesday, which is the 3rd of June.
• 38:38
  And we'll start with, you know, main agenda content around about
• 38:43
  lunchtime in the morning on Tuesday.
• 38:47
  We've got 5 discrete 2 to 3 hour workshops on specific topics.
• 38:53
  First time we've done these, like I say in a long, long time.
• 38:58
  Those do require separate registration.
• 39:01
  Some of that is, is to help us manage numbers and some of it
• 39:04
  because it's additional, you know, in depth content.
• 39:08
  It's funny, we're coming at this kind of in reverse, right?
• 39:10
  We're going to talk about these workshops and then I'm going to
• 39:13
  talk about how those topics fit into this overall sort of theme
• 39:16
  that we've got for the show this year.
• 39:19
  So those five workshops are four specific topics that we've
• 39:26
  identified as being really key in, in the industry, probably
• 39:29
  not just for this year, but but for several years, I expect.
• 39:35
  And then the Sam's Institute is going to come and do a, a
• 39:38
  workshop and those details will be coming on the website, the
• 39:41
  idanoverse website in due course.
• 39:44
  The four topic areas that we've got workshops on are artificial
• 39:49
  intelligence. I bet everyone's shocked, right?
• 39:52
  You're sitting there going, wow, how did you think of that?
• 39:56
  Pikachu faith. Right.
• 39:58
  Yeah. So we're going to talk about AI.
• 40:01
  But what much of that is going to do is actually explain
• 40:04
  there's going to be quite a lot of of work done making sure that
• 40:07
  people understand what AI is right, what the different kinds
• 40:11
  of AI are and how they operate, and then what impact that has
• 40:14
  from an identity standpoint. I think it's going to be really
• 40:16
  interesting. So Jonathan Sanders leading that
• 40:19
  one. There'll probably be a few other
• 40:21
  folks involved. We've got one on non human
• 40:25
  identity, which I suspect we'll come back to in a little bit.
• 40:28
  Jim, I was fascinated to hear about that Gartner paper and,
• 40:31
  and I, I agree, right? I mean, in my head, you talk to
• 40:35
  people about non human identity and you tend to get a lot of
• 40:37
  either workload or, or process or IoT.
• 40:42
  In my head, it also includes things like business entity,
• 40:46
  legal entity and fascinated with the animal one.
• 40:52
  I have to say my thought went more broadly to things like
• 40:55
  supply chain. So you know, one of the things
• 40:59
  that came up with I'm going to be the first person that has to
• 41:02
  take a drink on the podcast today.
• 41:04
  Blockchain some years ago was, you know that the, the whole use
• 41:11
  of a blockchain in supply chain and material provenance and that
• 41:16
  kind of thing. Well, you think about if you put
• 41:20
  let's say an RFID tag in, oh, I don't know, some lumber that's
• 41:24
  going to be exported from somewhere.
• 41:26
  Well, that has an identity. If you're managing a large farm
• 41:32
  and you want to put tags in your, you're managing identity,
• 41:35
  right. So when you talked about
• 41:37
  animals, that actually was where my head went to was was the
• 41:40
  supply chain use case. Let me ask you a question about
• 41:43
  that. Sure.
• 41:44
  Yeah. Let me ask you.
• 41:45
  So let's just say it is the the use case for animals is the RFID
• 41:51
  chip. Is that then if we use RFID
• 41:56
  chips on inventory in a clothing store, right And there's
• 42:00
  thousands of pieces of clothing and each one has an RFID chip,
• 42:05
  does that mean that all those shirts have identities?
• 42:09
  Cool. Or maybe you group them, right?
• 42:12
  So maybe it's all large yellow button cuff shirts have an
• 42:19
  identity because maybe you don't need to know each individual
• 42:21
  one. If you're dealing with high
• 42:24
  value goods, then actually you probably do, right?
• 42:27
  So in the same way that you have a serial number for something,
• 42:30
  that serial number has a might still an identity problem,
• 42:34
  right? So my lovely microphone that
• 42:37
  finally after five tries, I'm actually using this time around
• 42:41
  has a serial number and it has a warranty and somebody's tracking
• 42:44
  that somewhere, right? It it, it has an identity.
• 42:48
  Now, at the moment it doesn't need to do anything, but if it's
• 42:50
  connected, it absolutely does need to do things.
• 42:53
  And and then we have, you know, then then the thing explodes
• 42:55
  very quickly, so. Yeah, We have quadrillions of
• 42:58
  entities around the world. If we start saying that every
• 43:03
  individual piece of inventory has identities and it explodes
• 43:07
  the scope of, you know, originally I, I, when I got in
• 43:12
  this industry, we're talking about people who has access to
• 43:15
  what right. And, and so now it's really
• 43:18
  taking much bigger. So I wanted to pull this back,
• 43:21
  though, actually to the idea of Jeff and you collaborating to
• 43:25
  build an AI because I was thinking of hallucinations.
• 43:28
  So what if you say I'm interested in machine or non
• 43:33
  human identities and blah blah blah and it says you should
• 43:36
  attend the session on animal identities and that doesn't
• 43:40
  exist. That would be really interesting
• 43:42
  if somebody goes out and, you know, thinks they're going to go
• 43:45
  to the animal identity session and there is no session for
• 43:50
  that. That would be interesting, and
• 43:52
  that's why we're going to experiment with this before we
• 43:54
  suggest that people actually do it for real.
• 43:56
  That's a good idea. Maybe maybe it highlights gaps
• 44:01
  and topics that like, oh, we never really kind of thought
• 44:04
  about that. So who knows, maybe there will
• 44:06
  be a a, you know, dog identity session next year or something
• 44:09
  like that. You never know, back to my
• 44:13
  workshop. So we've got AI, we've got the
• 44:15
  Non human identity one, and we've partnered with the Non
• 44:18
  Human Identity Institute, Lalit Chodo to help us with that one.
• 44:20
  Again, there'll be a few of the folks involved, but Lalit's kind
• 44:23
  of driving that We're going to spend some time.
• 44:26
  We've got a workshop on personal identity.
• 44:28
  So that's digital identity wallets and and mobile driver's
• 44:31
  license and all of the things that go along with that.
• 44:34
  Christina and, and, and Teresa, we're going to sort of headline
• 44:38
  that one. Again, we're expecting there'll
• 44:40
  be a few other folks coming in to help out.
• 44:43
  And then the last one is continuous and event driven
• 44:46
  identity, which Sean Adele and Andrew Cameron are primarily
• 44:50
  going to do. And again, they'll, they'll pull
• 44:52
  in some folks and all of that. So those four workshops plus the
• 44:59
  Sands Institute workshop will all run on the Tuesday morning
• 45:03
  on the 3rd. And so if people are making
• 45:05
  travel plans, you're probably going to want to think about,
• 45:07
  you know, getting in on, on Monday in the, in the evening.
• 45:09
  Probably those do require additional registration, right?
• 45:15
  So all of those details are up on the Idenovus website.
• 45:17
  When you go and register, you can select to, to add one of
• 45:20
  those workshops and you do have to preselect that one for sort
• 45:23
  of self-evident reasons. All of that wraps up under a, a,
• 45:29
  a sort of overall conference focus for us this year.
• 45:34
  So again, I'm avoiding words, right?
• 45:37
  Just like I tried to avoid the word track earlier and we talk
• 45:42
  about primary topic areas, I also try to avoid the word
• 45:45
  theme. And the reason I try to avoid
• 45:48
  the word theme is that I think you go to a conference, it has a
• 45:53
  theme. There's an expectation that most
• 45:56
  of the things that you attend are going to be about that
• 46:00
  particular theme, right? So we have what I like to call a
• 46:04
  primary focus and I think of it like an infusion, right?
• 46:08
  So it infuses the agenda, but it isn't, it isn't everything,
• 46:11
  right? It's just a flavour that that
• 46:13
  you get through the course of the week.
• 46:16
  And so for us this year, that's innovation, which I know is
• 46:20
  really big and really broad. But the reason that we picked
• 46:22
  that is there is an awful lot of new, right?
• 46:26
  Part of the reason we have those four workshops is those are four
• 46:30
  big areas of new development. There's a lot going.
• 46:34
  You could pick any one of those areas and say we'll spend a week
• 46:37
  talking about that, right? And there are four of them.
• 46:40
  And I'm sure that some other group of people would look at
• 46:43
  the industry and go, no, no, there are four other ones,
• 46:45
  right? There's a lot going on.
• 46:48
  And so it felt like a really good opportunity for us to talk
• 46:51
  about some of the new that's happening, to talk about how to
• 46:56
  deal with how to handle some of the new that's happening, right.
• 47:00
  I mean, if you're in this industry, there's enough to
• 47:04
  think about as it is. And then somebody comes along
• 47:06
  and says, hey, by the way, we're going to put RFID chips in all
• 47:10
  of our cats. How are you going to handle
• 47:12
  that, right? There's a lot of change and, and
• 47:19
  so understanding how to deal with that, understanding how to
• 47:21
  make use of that, right? When is it appropriate for me to
• 47:24
  innovate? When is it appropriate for me to
• 47:27
  stick with what's tried and tested, right?
• 47:29
  Those are all things that I think are really important and
• 47:33
  it's really exciting, right? I mean, it's incredibly exciting
• 47:35
  to see the amount of stuff that's happening in the industry
• 47:38
  is, is, I think it feels to me like it's more than we've seen
• 47:43
  in, I want to say 15 years and it might be longer, right?
• 47:49
  I mean it, there's just a lot. Yeah, that's a, that's a really
• 47:55
  good point. So beyond kind of everything we
• 47:59
  just talked about, I think the last thing that I'd want to to
• 48:02
  know would be, well, you know #1 what can we expect out of the
• 48:07
  keynote keynotes this year? And hey, we're going to Vegas.
• 48:12
  What are some of the after hour things that are planned within
• 48:16
  the conference? Yeah.
• 48:18
  So the mainstage for us has always been about setting broad
• 48:23
  context for, for the industry, right.
• 48:26
  And adding a little bit of what one of my colleagues likes to
• 48:30
  call Sparkle, right? You, you, you want to have some
• 48:32
  fun with the mainstage. And we've always tried to put on
• 48:35
  a, a, a good show, right? I mean, the, the AV company that
• 48:38
  we've worked with historically does an amazing job there and
• 48:41
  it's honesty. I mean, I get to go and, and
• 48:43
  play on the mainstage and I love it, right?
• 48:44
  I mean, it's just, it's just an amazing environment to be in.
• 48:48
  So we've got a, a few things, right.
• 48:50
  I guess I'll, I'll probably be up there a little bit saying
• 48:52
  some stuff. Andre Duran will be up there.
• 48:54
  So he's the the founder of Identiverse originally and it's
• 48:58
  always nice to have him along and, and talk about his
• 49:01
  perspectives on, you know, what he sees happening in the
• 49:04
  industry at the moment. We've got a handful of guest
• 49:08
  keynotes that we've already confirmed there'll be some more
• 49:11
  coming later on. So it's definitely worth keeping
• 49:13
  an eye on the website as we make, you know, more
• 49:15
  announcements as we get a little closer.
• 49:18
  But three that I'm I'm particularly excited about.
• 49:21
  In no particular order. So Hannah Rutter.
• 49:25
  Hannah is the Deputy Director of Digital identity with the
• 49:28
  Department for Science, Innovation Technology here in
• 49:30
  the UK. So she's going to come across
• 49:33
  and talk about some of what's happening here.
• 49:37
  And I think for me, that's exciting partly because I look,
• 49:41
  you know, I'm based here, I'm based in the Uki am British.
• 49:44
  It's always nice to be able to put some some, you know, British
• 49:47
  perspective into the show beyond just mine.
• 49:51
  But more importantly, and we did this last year, having folks
• 49:55
  from outside of North America common and help expand that
• 49:59
  horizon a little bit, there's a lot going on within the US.
• 50:02
  There's also a lot going on outside the US and we can all
• 50:05
  learn from from that sort of global perspective.
• 50:08
  So we had some folks from Australia come and talk to us
• 50:10
  last year. It'd be really good to have
• 50:12
  Hannah join the conversation this year.
• 50:15
  We've got a gentleman by the name of Michael Coates.
• 50:17
  So Michael was the first CSO at Twitter when Twitter was still
• 50:24
  Twitter way back. He was also the cease at
• 50:27
  Mozilla. He was the chair of a WASP for a
• 50:30
  number of years and he's done a whole bunch of other stuff.
• 50:33
  So again, you know, hearing his perspective on on what he's
• 50:36
  seeing today and and how he thinks about this industry, I
• 50:40
  think is going to be really, really fascinating.
• 50:44
  And then a wonderful woman called Rommid Ben and Kassar.
• 50:46
  And I recommend people go and, and you can sort of look up her
• 50:49
  profile online, but Robin has an amazing history of, you know,
• 50:55
  being an endurance athlete, an ultra athlete.
• 50:57
  She has a number of world records and some fascinating,
• 51:00
  you know, long distance kayaking things.
• 51:02
  She's also a firefighter over in San Diego in that area and has,
• 51:07
  you know, lots of other things to talk about.
• 51:09
  So that'll be something a little bit different for everyone up on
• 51:11
  the mainstage. I'm really, really looking
• 51:13
  forward to that. Then we've got some folks from
• 51:17
  within the industry whose names people will recognize.
• 51:20
  So I'm, I'm particularly looking forward at the end of the week
• 51:23
  on Friday, again, Sean Odell and and Andrew Cameron, you know,
• 51:27
  talk to us about continuous identity and in the slightly,
• 51:30
  you know, broader context up on the mainstage.
• 51:32
  I'm really excited about that one.
• 51:35
  And we'll have a few others like I say, that will announce
• 51:38
  between between here and and the show.
• 51:40
  So yeah, lots to lots to get stuck into.
• 51:44
  And that actually reminds me, it gives me an opportunity to say
• 51:47
  it is worth remembering that the event really does run through
• 51:51
  until Friday lunchtime. I think if you've been to other
• 51:55
  shows, there's this this sort of expectation almost built in that
• 51:59
  OK, well, by the time I get to Thursday night, it's pretty much
• 52:02
  done, right? No, we have a big block of
• 52:05
  content and it's really in depth content on Friday morning
• 52:09
  leading up to the closing keynotes.
• 52:11
  If you can, it is absolutely worth staying through that
• 52:14
  because that's where a lot of the meat of the of the agenda
• 52:17
  ends up being is on that Friday morning.
• 52:19
  So really recommend that people if, if you can kind of make
• 52:22
  travel plans around that stay through, you know, see the
• 52:25
  closing keynote, it's up to lunchtime and then head off
• 52:28
  after that if you possibly can. Yeah, there's, there's too much
• 52:32
  good content in. That's the problem, right?
• 52:35
  It's like, it's so much, yeah. I always end up struggling and
• 52:38
  say OK I want to go to like these six different things
• 52:40
  taking place at the exact same time.
• 52:42
  Yeah, it's the hardest thing every year.
• 52:43
  I mean, we, we have this problem when, when you know, the
• 52:46
  committee and I are sort of doing the, the CFP process.
• 52:50
  And again, that's, you know, 6 to 8 week process for us of, of
• 52:54
  really looking through. I mean, you know, I think you
• 52:58
  guys know this, but I know there'll be people listening who
• 53:00
  don't, right? Every single proposal that comes
• 53:02
  into the CFP gets at least three reviewers looking at it, me +2
• 53:08
  and usually it's me plus three others.
• 53:12
  And then we have calls for each of those topic areas, quite
• 53:16
  lengthy conversations about, OK, well, here are the things, you
• 53:19
  know, here's what we thought. Let's see and see what we can
• 53:22
  start. And every year we have to turn
• 53:24
  down. I mean, you know, we had space
• 53:29
  to accept about 1/5, just under 1/5 of everything that we
• 53:33
  received. And we could have picked, you
• 53:36
  know, a different 5th and it still would have been awesome,
• 53:40
  right? It's really, really hard.
• 53:43
  And I have a huge amount of admiration for my wonderful
• 53:45
  content committee. You put in the effort, but I
• 53:47
  also have a huge amount of admiration for every single
• 53:50
  person who puts in a proposal every year.
• 53:52
  They're all great, and I'm really sorry we couldn't accept
• 53:55
  them. All right.
• 53:56
  I mean, I'd love to be able to do that.
• 53:58
  So, you know, the end result is, yeah, you know, we have a, we
• 54:01
  have a pretty solid week of content.
• 54:04
  It's one of the reasons why we keep the most of the sessions
• 54:06
  quite short is because there's a lot to get through.
• 54:09
  And the reality is it's hard for people to sit through more than
• 54:12
  about 20 minutes and really pay attention.
• 54:15
  Actually, the number of people that can present well for more
• 54:17
  than about 2025 minutes is is not large either, right?
• 54:20
  So it's one of the reasons we keep it short.
• 54:22
  And there's lots of opportunity sort of after hours to, you
• 54:27
  know, to come back around, find the presenter, have a
• 54:29
  conversation, dig into stuff in in a little bit more more depth
• 54:32
  and more detail. And so that brings me to the
• 54:34
  after hours, which I know Jim, you asked about.
• 54:38
  So couple of things that that we already know that we can talk
• 54:42
  about on the opening evening. So on the Tuesday, right after
• 54:46
  the opening keynotes in, in the late afternoon, we'll have a big
• 54:50
  welcome reception in the Expo hall.
• 54:53
  That's always a lot of fun. I'm hoping that we might have
• 54:57
  you, you guys at IDAC doing something in there.
• 55:01
  I know that's still a little bit up in the air, but fingers
• 55:05
  crossed that comes off and there'll be lots of other stuff
• 55:07
  going on in there as well. Actually, I didn't mention it,
• 55:10
  but I talked about non human identity earlier.
• 55:12
  We've actually on the show floor, we've got a non human
• 55:14
  identity pavilions. There's going to be, you know, a
• 55:16
  whole bunch of of very specific stuff going going on there.
• 55:20
  Bunch of new sponsors, new vendors in in that particular
• 55:23
  space that I think it's going to be really, really interesting to
• 55:25
  see. A lot of the vendors also have,
• 55:28
  you know, demonstrations, presentations down on the show
• 55:31
  floor. So it's a, it's a pretty vibrant
• 55:33
  environment both for networking and for learning.
• 55:37
  Actually down there, I'm saying that'll be a lot of fun.
• 55:40
  I'm saying down there, by the way, because in my head, I'm
• 55:42
  still visualizing this in the Aria from last year where it
• 55:45
  really was downstairs. This year, I think it's all on
• 55:47
  the same floor, so it's a little easier to navigate.
• 55:51
  So that's the the welcome reception.
• 55:54
  We'll also have a closing party on the Thursday evening.
• 55:56
  Again, remember, if you go to the closing party that there is
• 55:59
  going to be material starting at 8:30.
• 56:01
  Please be respectful. But that should be a lot of fun.
• 56:04
  I don't have the details of that yet.
• 56:06
  I know that it's happening. I know that it'll be great.
• 56:09
  You know, there's, there's lots of opportunity in Vegas to have
• 56:11
  fun with those sorts of things. So I'm sure that'll be fabulous.
• 56:15
  And then I know that a lot of the kind of industry groups will
• 56:19
  have various things going on during the week, right.
• 56:21
  I know for sure that ID Pro will be doing something.
• 56:24
  I don't have the details. I just know it's going to
• 56:25
  happen. I have no doubt that there will
• 56:27
  be others as well. And those will start to emerge
• 56:30
  over the course of, you know, the the next few months between
• 56:33
  now and and June. So there's, you know, there's a
• 56:37
  lot to get stuck into. One of the tricks and Alan and
• 56:42
  and Heather always like talking about this at that newcomer
• 56:44
  session is pacing is really important, right?
• 56:48
  There's a there's a lot during the week and if you want to get
• 56:52
  the most out of it, you it's definitely a marathon, right?
• 56:55
  You want to pace yourself very, very carefully so that you leave
• 56:58
  at the end not feeling like you've, you know, completely
• 57:02
  used up every last sort of gram of energy that you have.
• 57:06
  Erg of energy. Save that for the flight at
• 57:09
  home. That's when you can sleep.
• 57:11
  Right. Yeah.
• 57:12
  Drink lots of water. And I mean, there's just so many
• 57:14
  good things going on. I think, you know, in addition
• 57:17
  to everything you just talked about, you know, of course every
• 57:20
  vendor is going to have like their own things going on.
• 57:22
  So I'm sure people are looking forward to having their e-mail
• 57:24
  inboxes inundated with every single vendor that they've done
• 57:27
  business with or might do business with or never heard of
• 57:30
  inviting them to do a bunch of different things.
• 57:33
  Go have fun. You know, these, some of these
• 57:36
  events are kind of cool. It's like, hey, go take
• 57:37
  advantage of that kind of stuff. So it's, it's, it's a way to
• 57:39
  kind of see the town sometimes and a lot of things going on.
• 57:42
  But yeah, all and pace yourself. It's really good.
• 57:46
  It's it's really good life advice, not just for
• 57:49
  Identiverse. It's great for Vegas and it's
• 57:51
  just great in general. OK, you guys need a new tagline.
• 57:56
  I don't need the Santa Claus advice for identity advice for
• 57:59
  life. I don't know if we can provide
• 58:03
  any good advice for either of those things, but I'll take it,
• 58:05
  you know, who knows? So Speaking of Vegas, kind of
• 58:09
  end on a lighter note here. There's so much to see and do in
• 58:13
  Las Vegas and I've been there many times.
• 58:16
  I think at this point, I feel like I go there at least once or
• 58:18
  twice a year for like the last 15 years or so.
• 58:23
  Is there something, Andy, that that comes to mind when I say
• 58:27
  give me like a place, an activity, a thing that people
• 58:32
  should be checking out the next time they go to Las Vegas?
• 58:35
  I was hoping you were going to phrase that question as what's
• 58:38
  your favorite place to be in Vegas, and then my answer was
• 58:41
  going to be, In all honesty, at the end of Identiverse week, my
• 58:44
  favorite place to be is the departure lounge at the.
• 58:46
  Airport say Mccarran International.
• 58:49
  I don't think it's Mccarran anymore and whatever it's
• 58:51
  called, but yeah. Yeah, whatever it's called.
• 58:54
  You know, I in all fairness, I get so little time when I'm,
• 58:58
  when I'm there to kind of get out and experience stuff.
• 59:00
  And I know there's a huge amount to see and do there.
• 59:04
  So I'm probably not the best person to give recommendations.
• 59:06
  I will say this though, some of the food in Vegas is, I mean,
• 59:12
  some of the restaurants are just out of this.
• 59:14
  Well, I mean like like world beatingly good, right?
• 59:18
  Like proper, proper world class quality.
• 59:21
  And so to the extent that folks are into, you know, really good
• 59:25
  cuisine, there's there's some great food in Vegas.
• 59:28
  And I think, and most of my experience there has been with
• 59:31
  the sort of hiring places, but I think if you go looking a little
• 59:34
  bit, there are some really straightforward, you know, good,
• 59:39
  honest home cooking kind of kind of food.
• 59:43
  But it's really good, right? So yeah, I, that's, that's my
• 59:47
  thing. I'd love to be able to get and
• 59:48
  see some of the shows and, and all the rest of it.
• 59:51
  And I'd love to get out of the city and go explore, you know,
• 59:55
  I, there's a bunch of stuff to do and see around Vegas as well.
• 59:59
  But yeah, apart from the departure lounge, it's all about
• 1:00:02
  the food for me, so. There's nothing with that.
• 1:00:05
  I, I still think of a nice Wagyu cut that I had four years ago,
• 1:00:10
  Universe at, at Caesars. It was literally the best day
• 1:00:13
  I've ever had. So I absolutely echo world class
• 1:00:16
  when it comes to food and, and the entertainment goes around
• 1:00:19
  it. Jim, what do you got for like a
• 1:00:20
  place or an activity or something?
• 1:00:22
  And I have a feeling I know what you're going to say, at least
• 1:00:24
  one of the things you might say. Yeah, So I mean, I've been to
• 1:00:26
  Vegas over 20 times, more than 20 times.
• 1:00:31
  So I'm going to sound a little bit like a broken record because
• 1:00:33
  I have to pick a few items, right?
• 1:00:36
  And what I want to do is pick those within the context of
• 1:00:39
  folks are only going to be there probably for a week, maybe tag a
• 1:00:42
  few days on which I think is a great idea.
• 1:00:45
  If you can do it. I would tag them on to the
• 1:00:47
  beginning, but because by the end of the conference, you're
• 1:00:50
  just going to want to leave. So my my pro tip would be if
• 1:00:53
  you're going to tag on time, the preference would be before.
• 1:00:58
  So number one, last year I went to this sphere.
• 1:01:01
  I think it was pretty new at the time, so.
• 1:01:04
  That's the one I thought that you would mention.
• 1:01:06
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just like you
• 1:01:09
  probably have never done anything like it before.
• 1:01:12
  I know when I went, when I'd gone, it was a totally immersive
• 1:01:16
  experience. I mean, I've done IMAX and
• 1:01:20
  things like that, but being there at the Sphere, I had to
• 1:01:23
  keep taking my eyes off the screen because it was so
• 1:01:25
  immersive. Like I was starting to feel
• 1:01:28
  scared, like I was flying and super.
• 1:01:31
  Cool and you can see it flying in.
• 1:01:33
  So if you're on a window seat, raise that window and depending
• 1:01:36
  on the, the flight landing pattern, you can see it.
• 1:01:40
  It's obviously much more visible at night.
• 1:01:42
  And they usually do cool things on the side of it, you know, at
• 1:01:45
  night or around it. But it's it's, it's a sight to
• 1:01:47
  behold. I paused that sentence
• 1:01:49
  completely wrong. I I had visions of the whole
• 1:01:51
  sphere flying in, which was a whole different kind of.
• 1:01:55
  That's a different experience, yeah.
• 1:01:57
  So, so that's number one, that's on the strip #2 would take you
• 1:02:01
  off the Strip to downtown Vegas. And I recall Fremont Street,
• 1:02:06
  you'd probably have seen videos of it.
• 1:02:07
  There's like an overhead canopy, which is actually like a huge TV
• 1:02:11
  screen. And it's like what I think you
• 1:02:16
  would think of Vegas if you, if your only experience was not
• 1:02:19
  just going to the Strip. I mean, you know, on the Strip,
• 1:02:23
  literally some of the hotels, if you get a cocktail, you can
• 1:02:25
  spend $35 for a Margarita, which is insane, right?
• 1:02:32
  Whereas you go to Fremont Street, you're talking about
• 1:02:35
  under 10 bucks and it's a lot bigger.
• 1:02:37
  So just that's just an example. I think overall it's just, you
• 1:02:42
  know, kind of a more authentic experience and living within the
• 1:02:46
  bubble of a resort on the Strip. It's very expensive and like, I
• 1:02:54
  think it's just fun to break away from that.
• 1:02:57
  The third thing I was going to mention, Mandalay Bay has a
• 1:02:59
  really cool pool. I think it's like a beach and
• 1:03:03
  from what I'm remembering, it has like a wave pool.
• 1:03:06
  So it's kind of like that. If you ever been to a wave pool,
• 1:03:10
  that's kind of the experience of the beach.
• 1:03:12
  They actually have like real sand and everything.
• 1:03:14
  So it's been a few years since I've been there, but it's kind
• 1:03:17
  of a unique hotel from that perspective.
• 1:03:21
  Mano is a cool spot. Mano is a cool spot.
• 1:03:23
  I like Fremont Street. I didn't discover that until
• 1:03:26
  maybe one or two years ago. And it's one of my favorite
• 1:03:29
  places in Vegas. If you like live music, they
• 1:03:32
  have like 4 different stages with different acts playing and
• 1:03:35
  the place is big enough that you know they're, they're not
• 1:03:38
  interfering with each other when you know when they're playing.
• 1:03:40
  But if you're looking for something to do Friday night,
• 1:03:43
  like after the show ends, like that's a great spot to go out
• 1:03:46
  to. I mean, it'll be busy, it'll be
• 1:03:47
  packed and you know, hopefully weather is, is good right from
• 1:03:51
  like a heat perspective in Vegas.
• 1:03:52
  But it is a cool spot to go to for sure.
• 1:03:55
  I definitely like Fremont Street for just for the live music
• 1:03:57
  aspect and and being outdoors. Because usually what happens is
• 1:04:02
  I go to Vegas, I land, I go from the airport to the hotel and
• 1:04:06
  then I don't see daylight sometimes until two or three
• 1:04:09
  days later. But I definitely echo Fremont
• 1:04:12
  Street. The one that I'm going to bring
• 1:04:14
  up is a place that my brother introduced to me, I think it was
• 1:04:17
  last year. It's called Area 15.
• 1:04:19
  So he lives just South of Vegas on the just South of the strip.
• 1:04:22
  And it's a place called Area 15. It's like AI don't know how to
• 1:04:25
  describe it. It's kind of like a experience
• 1:04:28
  type thing. Just weird, wild, you know, EDM
• 1:04:34
  type music and it's just kind of a fun place to go to and just
• 1:04:38
  try a bunch of different things. They had this really cool kind
• 1:04:40
  of like immersive experience where they have it's a giant
• 1:04:45
  room and there's projectors and it's not the sphere, you know,
• 1:04:48
  quality or that level, but you're in this giant room and
• 1:04:51
  the projectors are showing like a surround view, 360° space
• 1:04:58
  travel and like being on the moon and a bunch of different
• 1:05:00
  stuff. It's kind of super trippy and
• 1:05:02
  it's a totally different vibe than anything else that done at
• 1:05:05
  Vegas. And it's off strip.
• 1:05:07
  So it's on the North End. I want to say it's kind of close
• 1:05:10
  to Stratosphere, sort of to the West of that past the highway
• 1:05:14
  there. But it's just a cool little spot
• 1:05:16
  and it wasn't too busy last time I was there.
• 1:05:18
  Maybe it was there, you know, off times and off season.
• 1:05:20
  But it's a cool spot to kind of get off the strip and do stuff.
• 1:05:23
  And they have a bunch of different things you can do
• 1:05:25
  there. So, you know, one of those
• 1:05:26
  silent discos right, where you put on the headphones and you
• 1:05:29
  just kind of do, you know, black flight type things with trippy
• 1:05:33
  music and different visual effects.
• 1:05:36
  You know, I'm sure there is a a certain population that might be
• 1:05:40
  listening like, yeah, that sounds totally for me.
• 1:05:42
  And then there is like, just as making it like that sounds
• 1:05:44
  terrible and I'm never going to do that.
• 1:05:46
  So Jeff, you've always been a big fan of Vegas.
• 1:05:50
  Are you big enough fan that you would actually live there?
• 1:05:53
  I would, I would not. I mean, I would probably live
• 1:05:56
  off strip somewhere obviously, but we know you're.
• 1:06:00
  Not that rich to live on shrimp, yeah.
• 1:06:03
  Right. We're going to do a we're going
• 1:06:04
  to get a few more sponsors, make really identity at the center to
• 1:06:07
  have me at the center of Vegas. There you go.
• 1:06:09
  Life goals, that kind of thing. But yeah, I would live in Vegas.
• 1:06:13
  I like the area. And, you know, I know it's a
• 1:06:15
  desert and he's like my kryptonite, but it's a dry heat,
• 1:06:19
  and that's what air conditioning is for.
• 1:06:21
  I stay indoors, and then I go out at night like a vampire.
• 1:06:26
  Yeah. So I would do that.
• 1:06:27
  Sharp's answer is yes. And that's that's it.
• 1:06:31
  That's what I'll take it. What does that shock you in any
• 1:06:33
  way, Jim? No, I just, I mean it, it's
• 1:06:38
  great. It's a great place.
• 1:06:39
  I always look at it as like, it's a great place to visit, but
• 1:06:42
  I wouldn't want to live there. But at the same time it's like I
• 1:06:45
  see different videos of, you know, me, I like to go to the
• 1:06:48
  gym. They've got some of the, they've
• 1:06:50
  got a number of the best gyms in the world in Vegas.
• 1:06:54
  So as far as like things to do and being the top quality, I
• 1:06:59
  think I could, but it's expensive overall.
• 1:07:05
  It's hot in the summer and I don't think I want to live in
• 1:07:10
  the desert. It makes my nose very dry and I
• 1:07:14
  don't like how that feels. So every time I visit a desert,
• 1:07:18
  my sciences get very irritated. I That sounds like a minor
• 1:07:24
  thing, but if you have to deal with that like every day for the
• 1:07:26
  rest of your life, that's not a minor thing.
• 1:07:29
  No, I get it. And I and I think I'm, you know,
• 1:07:32
  the mindset where, like I said, I don't gamble, I don't really
• 1:07:36
  drink. So those types of vices, you
• 1:07:40
  know, I'm probably more resistant to.
• 1:07:43
  It's not for everybody. I get it.
• 1:07:44
  But I mean, I would live pretty much anywhere.
• 1:07:47
  At least I would try it out. Let's just put that where I'd
• 1:07:49
  say is a different story, but at an end of base number of times,
• 1:07:52
  I would live off strip somewhere and if I want a good meal, I can
• 1:07:56
  go to the strip or find a many number of off strip places.
• 1:07:59
  There are so many good places to eat off strip.
• 1:08:02
  I know we went to one and it was last year was year before that
• 1:08:04
  that Daniel took us to. So if if you get a chance to go
• 1:08:08
  out to dinner with RSM, do it. You're doing someplace good and
• 1:08:12
  it's usually someplace that's not like, OK, been there before
• 1:08:16
  or it's like, you know, kind of ho hum.
• 1:08:18
  Usually we're picked up good spots that are kind of offbeat
• 1:08:20
  and interesting. There you go pro temp self plug
• 1:08:24
  for us as we go out because I'm sure we'll be doing something
• 1:08:26
  dinner out there. We have rambled on for wow,
• 1:08:30
  almost an hour, over an hour and 10 minutes.
• 1:08:32
  So Andy, thank you so much for being part of this and thank you
• 1:08:36
  for putting on helping put in the conference and continue to
• 1:08:39
  advocate for that importance of business.
• 1:08:40
  And I am tracked again. You know, that's something I
• 1:08:43
  feel like we need more about that if we need to be able to
• 1:08:46
  articulate the value of it and not everyone gets identity and
• 1:08:51
  we need to be able to translate it into human speech sometimes.
• 1:08:53
  So thank you for that, Andy. And it still is at the center.
• 1:08:57
  It is still at the center. It is, yeah.
• 1:09:00
  Thank you guys. So we'll go ahead and wrap it up
• 1:09:03
  here. Don't forget we do have a
• 1:09:04
  discount code, IDV 25-I D AC25 gets you 25% off.
• 1:09:09
  Take advantage of that. Stack it up with whatever else
• 1:09:11
  you got going on. And like I said, open invite.
• 1:09:13
  You see, Jen or I, you know, walking around, please come up,
• 1:09:17
  say hello, give us a fist bump, you know, you know, it's just a
• 1:09:19
  nod, Say hey, you know, whatever.
• 1:09:20
  That's cool. I'm always happy to to meet with
• 1:09:23
  folks and, you know, set aside time to kind of chat and catch
• 1:09:26
  up and, and just see what's at at the top of their minds, you
• 1:09:29
  know, when it comes to whatever's going on.
• 1:09:30
  So with that, we'll go ahead and leave for this week.
• 1:09:34
  We'll have one center show notes for all this stuff, so you can
• 1:09:35
  check it out with a link for Andy.
• 1:09:37
  You can talk to him about your famous Vegas experiences or you
• 1:09:42
  know, Andy, when you said earlier, it's like you're
• 1:09:44
  rushing back and forth between, you know, things, that's pretty
• 1:09:47
  much how I always see you. And so I always try to get a
• 1:09:49
  point and say, come on and say, hey, thank you, you know, if
• 1:09:51
  your support and stuff like that.
• 1:09:53
  But I know you're busy. So sometimes it's just like a
• 1:09:54
  nod or a point or something like that.
• 1:09:56
  So I totally got it. So yeah, there we go.
• 1:10:01
  We're on the web, IDC podcast.com, see you at
• 1:10:04
  Identiverse. Check us out on our YouTube
• 1:10:06
  channel, like and subscribe to all the fun things helps us out
• 1:10:09
  and we'll talk with everyone in the next one.
• 1:10:14
  You've been listening to Identity at the Center.
• 1:10:17
  We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate and
• 1:10:21
  review, and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit the
• 1:10:25
  website at identity@thecenter.com.
• 1:10:29
  See you next time on Identity at the Center.