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Wholehearted WORSHIP Rhythms with Katie Reed · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_03: Friend, welcome back to the second week of the Wholehearted Rhythm series.
0:04
SPEAKER_03: Today we're talking about worship, and I'm sharing an episode that is really from the archives with my friend Katie Reid.
0:11
SPEAKER_03: She is someone I admire greatly, and she is still a local worship leader here in Kansas City with Radiant Church.
0:19
SPEAKER_03: She has faithfully grown a worship team and environment that invites others to experience the presence of God together.
0:26
SPEAKER_03: Now, even though this conversation is five years old, it is still so relevant.
0:32
SPEAKER_03: I think especially for me personally, as I've come to appreciate corporate worship even more, you know, that we can really gather together and worship with others.
0:41
SPEAKER_03: Now, this conversation was in the day when I had longer episodes.
0:46
SPEAKER_03: I still really try to honor your listening time, even if conversations were really great.
0:50
SPEAKER_03: So I have edit this conversation down quite a bit, but I am fairly confident that this conversation is going to feel even better this time around and maybe work better in your listening schedule.
1:02
SPEAKER_03: All right, so let's jump right in this conversation on worship with Katie Reed.
1:09
SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
1:13
SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, your wholehearted living coach.
1:17
SPEAKER_03: And I'm so glad that you stopped by to spend some time with me.
1:21
SPEAKER_03: Are you curious about the Enneagram?
1:24
SPEAKER_03: Do you want to learn biblical truths?
1:26
SPEAKER_03: And have you wondered if there are life rhythms that will help you thrive?
1:30
SPEAKER_03: Well, friend, then you are in the right place.
1:34
SPEAKER_03: For six years, this podcast has focused on sharing conversations with my friends about life, business, motherhood, faith, and all things Enneagram from a Christian perspective.
1:47
SPEAKER_03: I truly understand what it's like to juggle everything as a wife, mom to three teenagers, a pup, and all while building a growing business.
1:56
SPEAKER_03: And friend, I haven't always done things with clarity, peace, or joy.
2:02
SPEAKER_03: But still, the Lord has taken my broken-hearted pieces and healed them so I can live with whole-hearted rhythm to provide women like you with a step-by-step process so you can get free of anxiety, shame, and frustration that might be holding you back from thriving.
2:19
SPEAKER_03: I pray that the Lord speaks to you as you listen today and that you would invite your friends and family to join the fun conversations.
2:27
SPEAKER_03: Are you ready to laugh a little and learn a whole lot?
2:31
SPEAKER_03: Alrighty, let's get to the conversation.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, lots of things, lots of dreams in the work, lots of things.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: You know how the Lord will speak to you and he won't really unveil the whole picture.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: And I'll do it on purpose.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: And he just sort of like enjoys the relationship through the journey.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, his whole goal is let's be close, you know.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: And my own usually my whole goal is like, end game.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: What's the end game here?
2:58
SPEAKER_00: Where are we going?
2:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, and he's like, why don't we just like enjoy this and talk along the way?
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: And so, um, that's good.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: No, I feel like um feel like all my strengths are being used in a really healthy way at Radiant, and I haven't felt like that in a long time.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: I just feel like I'm I'm thriving and I feel like I'm growing.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: And it's not one of those, like, sometimes it's a painful grow where it's just like, oh man, I just need to learn these things.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: But for the most part, it's a um, it's just natural growth.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: It was like, this is the soil that my heart needed to bring forth strength and greatness and things that have been hidden in me for a long time.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: And I was just wondering if it would ever come out.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: That's so for me, it's been like um, if anything, it's it's added on.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: My dreams are bigger and greater, and you you know it they're gonna be imp they're impossible, which means that only the Lord can do it.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: Yes, so but God, yeah.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: I think if anything, it's just grown and come alongside, and so oh, that's exciting.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: It is exciting.
4:07
SPEAKER_03: Now, what is your official role?
4:09
SPEAKER_03: Like, what's your title?
4:10
SPEAKER_03: To worship team leader, which encompasses so much because it's not just the Sunday morning that we get to see and enjoy and receive the benefits of, it's all the behind the scenes, right?
4:21
SPEAKER_03: Yes, actual leading people, planning all the details, and there's always lots of that.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: Anytime you see something that's a little bit remarkably beautiful, yeah, you can count on many, many hours behind the scenes where something's being cultivated and grown and taken care of.
4:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's good.
4:42
SPEAKER_03: Well, you're doing a fantastic job.
4:43
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
4:44
SPEAKER_03: It's it's so great.
4:45
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I definitely receive the benefits of worship and I mean I it's not just um there's not a perfection element of like, yeah, I I know things probably don't go exactly as planned, but the spirit of the Lord is there and you feel the freedom of that, and you feel that the hunger from the people to enter into that place and to participate what the Lord is offering.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:09
SPEAKER_03: And you get to, it's like you get to steward it and you get to, you know, invite people to lead and invite people to enter into where you guys are, you know, kind of leading in the tabernacle, so to speak.
5:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: And I would say like that's the heart of our team is that we want to create this beautiful environment for one, God to show up, you know, just calm and be in our midst.
5:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: And then also for people who haven't ever experienced what he's like and how good he is and how kind he is, and that he's a healer, you know.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking of, you know, we spend time every week just before our service, just praying um, that people who haven't ever been to church or have been hurt by church or have um just not really been drawn in before would walk through our doors and just encounter Jesus and experience him and um and be able to connect.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: There's something about music that just draws the human spirit out in a way that nothing else can.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: And it just connects us to his heart.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: And so we long to create this space that so honors the Lord and um and draws his presence and also connect people to that.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: And I like to just talk to our team about like when we go out and we're leading the room, we're letting them borrow our faith to connect to Jesus, you know, in a way we're we're like declare, we're declaring who he is, and we're letting them experience and come in, kind of come in on a secret.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: You're coming in on a secret, you're coming in on a journey on something that's been cultivated for a long time.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: There's a verse in in the New Testament that says, You're beginning to reap what you haven't sown, right?
7:07
SPEAKER_00: You're reaping the benefits of something that you haven't sown, and that's what it's like when we're drawing people in.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: It's going, you are reaping the benefits, and you get to borrow my faith and you get to taste what this is like.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
7:20
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so so you see it as you guys are putting your faith on display.
7:25
SPEAKER_03: Your spiritual act of worship is allowing people to like stand on your shoulders in a way.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, how many times have we gone to um conferences or events where incredible worship is playing, or we hear someone speak a message that strikes our heart?
7:44
SPEAKER_00: We always look and we go, whatever they have, I want it.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right?
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: And it's like whatever they have, it is it is touching something inside of my soul.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: It is, it is touching an ache.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm I think I'm finding that thing that I've been looking for.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: And it's not necessarily music and it's not necessarily a speaker, it's it's really they are touching the realness of your relationship with Jesus.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: They're getting to see it and they're getting to go that I want that.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
8:18
SPEAKER_03: Because if he is in everything and the creator of everything, they're able to see him.
8:22
SPEAKER_03: So why do you why do you think it is there's such a different experience?
8:26
SPEAKER_03: Because I see it in my own life, how I mean, I can have Bethel worship music in the background and playing all the time.
8:35
SPEAKER_03: And and there are times where I engage, you know, in my car or with the music, my earbuds.
8:41
SPEAKER_03: Um, but if I don't get to participate in corporate worship, I can feel it.
8:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:48
SPEAKER_03: I and and if it's been a long time and I get to come in, you know, because we're all serving in different things, and there's sometimes some weeks that I'm back with the kids and I don't get to have that full worship experience.
9:00
SPEAKER_03: And I can tell.
9:02
SPEAKER_03: And I, you know, and I'm like, what is it, Lord?
9:04
SPEAKER_03: Because you're you're in our midst all the time, you're with us all the time.
9:08
SPEAKER_03: What is what's the power of corporate worship that just changes things and gives them maybe more tangible experience to the believer?
9:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think of the verse when Jesus says, wherever two or more are gathered, I'm in their midst.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: And so there's this beautiful outward expression that happens when we gather together.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the psalm says it's like there's a commanded blessing that is released when we dwell together in unity and when we come together to worship, there's actually an outward commanded blessing that is released.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: And so, like throughout the week, you know, I have internal Holy Spirit that I commune with and I talk with.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: And um, but like Jesus says, there's something about when two or more gather, there's just something about the gathering of the believers that releases this outward expression, this manifestation of who he is.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: And it's beautiful.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: It is, and it's something that we long for as a people because you know, when we go through a journey, we want to go through it with somebody else.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, when we walk through life, it's the it's the longing that's been put in us for for a family.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: We long for family, we long for the deep relational connect.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: And so there's something that is so beautiful and the way that the Lord designed the originality of, hey, I'm gonna design this so that when all the saints gather together, it's actually touching an egg in their heart to be with family, yeah, and to have the Jesus expression amongst them.
10:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:40
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's good.
10:41
SPEAKER_03: It's I love how you articulated that.
10:44
SPEAKER_03: So out of curiosity, what's your anneagram number?
10:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm a four-wing three.
10:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm a wing believer.
10:49
SPEAKER_03: So just out of curiosity for you, for your art, for cultivating the spiritual gifts in you.
10:56
SPEAKER_03: How has the Enneagram helped you, you know, maybe bring some of those to light or give you language for it?
11:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it helps me make peace with who I am, with just my design.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you this funny story.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: My husband got me to take the Enneagram test, and he's like, You need to take this.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's doing it.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: It's so cool.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: Really?
11:13
SPEAKER_00: Kenny was pushing that.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: He was the first one who showed me it.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: No kidding.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, okay, so I like took this test and I was so disappointed with the results.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, I was I was devastated.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: I think I was like, I was depressed and angry for probably two days because I was like, this is awful.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I've this is such a terrible number.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: I am not this personality.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: This thing is off.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: This is wrong.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I'm not doing this, you know?
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: I went, nothing to do with this.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: So it took me a while just to, I think, process.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: I think.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: Did you test that as a four right away?
11:48
SPEAKER_00: I did.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: Every single day.
11:49
SPEAKER_03: That's fascinating.
11:50
SPEAKER_03: That's weird.
11:51
SPEAKER_03: That's an that's a real rare thing to be able to test immediately.
11:55
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
11:55
SPEAKER_03: But maybe some of the beauty of it is you had no knowledge of it.
11:58
SPEAKER_03: It was more like a blind test.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: It was just like be honest, be truthful.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, you know.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's it's really hard to be really honest with yourself with this.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: It is so because it's like, I want to push this because this is how I want to respond.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: Or how I want to do, but how do you how do I do it?
12:15
SPEAKER_00: How do I actually?
12:17
SPEAKER_00: What am I actually like in these moments?
12:19
SPEAKER_00: And so I remember just being really, really just disappointed, I think.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: And really didn't think about it for a couple weeks.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: And then I just started to read through kind of the four again.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, oh my gosh, this is me.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, this is just this is hard.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: It was just hard.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: Like self-revelation, self-truth, looking in a mirror in those ways, reflecting your soul.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: It is really just difficult.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's just hard.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: And so, um, but after a while, I started to just see um the possibilities and just the beauty in hey, you know what, this is just God's design, and this is just how I am.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: And um, not in a I can't grow sense, but this is just the Lord has wired me like this.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: And it, you know, if I look back over my life, actually it would make a lot of sense.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: And it really started to help me um identify weaknesses, yeah, but also identify strengths.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, um, just thankful.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, Lord, you've designed me this way, and it's okay that I come alive in these certain areas, and it's okay that I'm always my heart, just always is searching.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm just always looking for uh a creative experience.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm always looking for something beautiful that moves my soul.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm always looking for something that magic.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
13:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I'm just searching for that stuff, yeah.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: And I'm looking for the the substance of it.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: And anytime I find it, it's just like an experience, yeah.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: Right?
13:55
SPEAKER_00: It's a yeah, anytime I see the beauty, and it can come in so many different ways.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: It can come from an old stained glass window in a chapel, or it can come from the way the light falls across my living room, or it can come in, do you know what I mean?
14:11
SPEAKER_00: So many different forms.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: It could come in the beauty of words reading in a book or poetry, and it's just like my soul searches for the deep mystery and the beauty of things like that.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's so good.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: Every time I find that beautiful, magical thing, it's it's it's it's an experience.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: It's like to me, it's like a spiritual experience with the Lord.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: It is right.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just wired like that.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: But then I have this wing three.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm driven, yeah, I am driven, and I want to do great things, and I want to push, and I want to press my own boundaries, and I want to grow and I want to challenge and you know, like there's just that thing in me that I'm just like, let's go, you know.
14:55
SPEAKER_03: And how can you exceed, how can you succeed and exceed and grow the art the Lord has placed in you, the beauty and the talents and the gift and and all of that.
15:08
SPEAKER_03: And I think part of the beauty of the Anneagram is being able to look in a mirror clearly and then going, what narrative am I writing?
15:18
SPEAKER_03: Yes, or have I written inadvertently that I actually don't want to be a part of?
15:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
15:23
SPEAKER_03: And what narrative do I want to write?
15:25
SPEAKER_03: And I think it's the invitation to go, okay, so innately in me, maybe is this negative desire and positive desire.
15:33
SPEAKER_03: I want to live on the positive desire.
15:35
SPEAKER_03: And how can I can I use that?
15:37
SPEAKER_03: Can I seek the Lord for growth in that area to move in that direction instead of because sometimes, you know, the dark side of any number, the shadow side of any number can get you stuck in a cycle.
15:48
SPEAKER_03: And I think the beauty of the Enneagram helps us go, oh wait, no, okay.
15:52
SPEAKER_03: So after we wrestle down the like, oh, negative sides dang it.
15:56
SPEAKER_03: We all have it.
15:57
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
15:57
SPEAKER_03: I think most of us can figure out what our number is when we read it and we don't like it.
16:02
SPEAKER_03: We feel so exposed.
16:03
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
16:04
SPEAKER_03: Like, wait a minute.
16:05
SPEAKER_03: And would you say the four, for the four?
16:09
SPEAKER_03: Part of the difficulty is that the desire is to be unique, and there's something about the Enneagram that maybe feels at first, hey, I'm being put in a box.
16:19
SPEAKER_03: Oh, for sure.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: I think the hardest thing was reading sort of the dark side of it.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: But to me, reading the whole thing was the dark side.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, there is no light side to an Enneagram for the whole thing is dark and brooding and depressing.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: And you really have to like push and you really have to force yourself, like you have to take steps to grow.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think honestly.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's uh it's a challenge, exposure for sure.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: Exposure.
16:51
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so how about Kenny?
16:52
SPEAKER_03: What what number is he?
16:53
SPEAKER_03: He's a three, solid.
16:54
SPEAKER_03: No kidding.
16:55
SPEAKER_03: So you guys do great.
16:56
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we do.
16:57
SPEAKER_03: Every number can stay married, be married, be friends, all that sort of stuff.
17:02
SPEAKER_03: But there's something pretty awesome about we complement each other really well.
17:06
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I see it.
17:07
SPEAKER_03: It's obvious.
17:08
SPEAKER_03: You guys are pretty young, but you've been married 10 years, going on 11.
17:13
SPEAKER_03: You have three kids.
17:15
SPEAKER_03: Three kids.
17:16
SPEAKER_03: And I mean, you really have kind of you're you're kind of in a stride in your musical career, even though the dream is there's big dreams.
17:24
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
17:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, so I mean, there's beauty in that that you guys can compliment.
17:29
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: In so many different ways.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: It's incredible.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: So good.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Kenny is so good at um keeping me level, you know, because the four in you is like very dramatic.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: There's a very dramatic side to the four.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: And um, yep.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: And he's very good at um at keeping me stable.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing that I love about my husband is that he does not deflate me.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: He does not, um, in the name of keeping me steady and stable, he does not deflate me and he does not hurt my creative side.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: He um, if anything, I always think of him as like if I'm like a kite flying high, he's holding the string, but he's letting me fly.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
18:13
SPEAKER_00: He's not deflating me and he lets me fly.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's like he understands that uh creative side of me.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: He understands that in the three um kind of that three personality um we can meet, you know, in the three personality.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but he's so supportive and so encouraging and so calls out um just the strength that he sees in me and encourages that if that makes sense.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: And so he is my greatest companion, my greatest cheerleader and my favorite person to be with.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can tell.
18:49
SPEAKER_03: Y'all are so I'm supposed to teach at a marriage retreat in April, and I get two one-hour time slots to teach the same thing.
18:58
SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
18:59
SPEAKER_03: But I'm like, how can I teach couples the power of the Enneagram?
19:03
SPEAKER_03: And power, because just what you said, I mean, I know you appreciate it, Kenny, but this gave you some language, some understanding.
19:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it probably helps.
19:10
SPEAKER_03: I know for my husband and I for a lot of things for me, it gives me just I I'm a lot more quiet now that I understand the Enneagram because I understand where he's coming from.
19:23
SPEAKER_03: Yes, and I know it's not in my power or in benefit to convince him otherwise.
19:27
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
19:28
SPEAKER_03: And just wait to get to the other side until we can, you know, communicate um in a way that I take less offense.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:38
SPEAKER_03: Because it's kind of a like, it removes it removes the like personal stings sometimes that happen from it when I can go, oh, this is just how he's perceiving it because that's his natural bent.
19:49
SPEAKER_03: And a little while, if I give it a couple of days, we can have a conversation and he can understand my perspective too.
19:54
SPEAKER_03: And I need to not just not take it so personal in the meantime.
19:58
SPEAKER_03: But absolutely, it's really so absolutely.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: And I would even go a step further that I actually love for even our worship team to I love for them to take the test, and a lot of them have.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and just one because self-discovery in your in is really important for your social interactions.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's just so healthy to know.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like especially when you're leading together.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
20:21
SPEAKER_03: I was just talking to a friend that I would love to get where I'm doing businesses, church leadership, you know, like bigger groups of people to get, you know, have them step through the anneogram because man, it's powerful, it can be really transformative.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: It can, it can really draw your team together in a beautiful way.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: And something that I love is um, you know, naturally uh when we're building teams, we'll we'll bend toward people that are like us.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: And the beauty of the you know uh the diverse the diversity inside of a team is actually one of our greatest strengths.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because my team is showing me things that I never would have seen or known, even to look for.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: And they actually, if you can imagine, you know, your team coming alongside you and they have been given through, you know, God design, right?
21:21
SPEAKER_00: They've been given different lenses to see the vision, right?
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Yep, and so I have blind spots, yeah, and I always tell my team I can't see everything, just so you know, you know, like I'm self-proclaiming, yes, I have blind spots.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I'm not all seeing it on note.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: If you're seeing something that I'm not seeing, come and tell me.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they do, and it helps us, and we grow, and we learn how to move together as a team and a unit if we can celebrate the differences in each other.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: That's you know, like I have people on my team who are just way incredible at being efficient and less and things like that.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: Organized, exactly, and so.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: When um, you know, when they come to me and tell me, I'm just like, yes, all of that, it's going to help us.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't even think of that, you know, like there's so many different things that I didn't even think of.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: Or um, and so I love it because it's the it's the beauty of being diverse, is that we're actually moving together as a large group and we're taking ground together.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're celebrating each other, we're celebrating each other's differences and strengths.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: And it's like we need that.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like we need the we need the diversity and we need the differences because it actually strengthens us.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: It's the iron on the iron.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: It sharpens, we sharpen each other, and you can tell by the fruit.
22:35
SPEAKER_03: It's obvious up there every week, week in and week out, and it's beautiful just to see how it's grown, just in the people and the team and the variety of people, and I mean in the in the practicals of of just you know, sound and you the unity and all that sort of stuff, but the fruit, like you said, like you're you can tell you're inviting people into something really, really healthy.
22:57
SPEAKER_03: And I think I think that's hard because um uh this is why I was really passionate about the message of unseen and getting it into some of our uh church leadership.
23:10
SPEAKER_03: Um when when I had started talking to Sarah about the book, and it was more as a friend who was participating in prayer, and then it became a friend who, you know, got to participate in the title and then all the you know, all these things that kind of extended from it.
23:26
SPEAKER_03: But I right away, I mean, before I don't know, at the very early stages when I knew enough about the message, I was like, hey, are you gonna do some sort of study?
23:35
SPEAKER_03: Because I would love to take our radiant people, our radiant women, yes, through this book, through this message.
23:41
SPEAKER_03: I just think because Young Baby Church, pastor who has, you know, a good 18-year history of and some notoriety um being well known.
23:53
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
23:54
SPEAKER_03: I mean, when I I helped him start Desperation all those years ago.
23:58
SPEAKER_03: It's amazing.
23:58
SPEAKER_03: Like 2001 now, so 18 years ago.
24:01
SPEAKER_03: It's crazy, but we never would have in a million years thought music albums, um, you know, people's music careers launched from it, speaking careers, so many things.
24:10
SPEAKER_03: Like so a lot of there was a lot of benefit of being part of something that was completely unknown and unseen.
24:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:16
SPEAKER_03: And inadvertently they some of them got to taste fame, quote unquote.
24:21
SPEAKER_03: And so I feared for the health of Radiant Church long term, that that's what people would be attracted to, and that's what they would be signing up for in hopes for that.
24:31
SPEAKER_03: And I and then you couple that with worship being on stage a platform, immediate platform.
24:38
SPEAKER_03: People don't have to know what's actually going on, but the health is reflected every Sunday.
24:44
SPEAKER_03: Um, that was really, really in important to me to get that message.
24:49
SPEAKER_03: And for you, how do you foster that?
24:51
SPEAKER_03: How do you lead that?
24:52
SPEAKER_03: How do you pastor that?
24:53
SPEAKER_03: So that way the first things stay first and the unseen, you know, remains a vital piece of each individual's life.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think a couple of things.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: Something that we always say is the goal is more important than the role.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: And that's and no one, I mean, we've re repeatedly just conversed about this that no one on our team is um is above serving, no one on our team is above taking out the trash, no one on our team is above doing the nitty-gritty.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: And something that I love about uh the worship team that the Lord has brought here is that we get down in the trenches beside each other.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: And uh it's hard to be to be arrogant and prideful when you're setting up your sound system every Sunday.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: Right.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: There's beauty in that.
25:47
SPEAKER_03: They're at 6 a.m.
25:48
SPEAKER_03: doing the nitty-gritty, rain, sun, snow.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: Snow, right?
25:52
SPEAKER_02: Currently, lots of snow.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: And there's just something beautiful in a team that uh serves together in that way.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: I know that word serve can be thrown around in so many different ways, but when I say serve, I'm talking physical labor.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Like our team does physical labor, setting up and tearing down every week, and we do it for the sake of God touching people and touching our city, and that's our heart.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: And um, I think that um, you know, it's hard to just be like, we don't want anyone on our team who who doesn't struggle with the desire to be famous.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: Like you can't just do that because there's just an innate desire in every single person to be known, seen, and heard, right?
26:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: And so uh, I actually had our worship team go through that book and read it.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome because I think it's just so important and so valuable.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been on stages and in rooms full of people and on stages and small rooms, and I've been on stages since I was 13, and uh it does not fill that desire and longing and aching to be seen, it just doesn't fill it.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: You can be on stages for your whole life in front of hundreds of thousands of people, and it is not the same thing as knowing and feeling the eyes of the Lord on your life and by heart.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it just isn't.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: And so um, I think a a couple of things we love to just we love to foster the this we love to serve.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: We just love to foster that that Jesus did not come to be served, but he came to serve.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Jesus came to wash people's feet, he came to come underneath us and to lift us up, and that's what my heart is in being a leader, and that's what my my team's heart is is we come underneath and then we lift up, and that's a message that will never go old.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: We will never tire of hearing them that Jesus made humility beautiful, he made it desirable, yeah, he made it uh wonderful, he made it for something else to reach for, and that's good.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fostering that I think starts with just celebrating people.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, when people feel seen and loved and heard and understood, then the superficial ache for all eyes on me, that superficial ache begins to dissipate.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and right, because we're getting the substance, we're getting the real vitamins that we need, right?
28:31
SPEAKER_00: To be in the community where we do feel seen and loved and heard and cared about.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and those are really important things to foster, you know.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and sometimes our um our knee-jerk reaction is to be like, you know, we come across somebody who really just wants to be on the platform and really just wants to be seen.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: And our knee-jerk reaction is well, no, they can't be on the scene, they can't do that.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: Let's get them out of here.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: And it's actually a cry for substance, yes, right?
28:58
SPEAKER_00: It's a cry, it's a cry to to have the that connection with the Lord of I am seen by you, I am heard.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: One Psalm 139, you know everything about me, you know the hairs on my head.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: Nothing will satisfy, no stage will satisfy the longing in your heart to be seen by an incredible God.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: It just won't.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so it's a two-part.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: It's a really the hey, connect with God in a secret place.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: It's just nothing can replace that's right, it's the most valuable thing, exactly.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: And then the other part is being a community that champions you, right?
29:34
SPEAKER_03: And champions who you are, yeah, who you are, not just what you do, exactly or what you're able to do or how you perform.
29:41
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah, or the gifts celebrating the person and not the gifts.
29:45
SPEAKER_03: Yes, that's good.
29:46
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
29:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so when so this week, kind of what I've done the last couple years is this idea of three weeks to New Year.
29:56
SPEAKER_03: We as a church corporately fast and pray.
29:59
SPEAKER_03: It's actually a tradition that my husband and I have done for years and years before Radiant and for a couple different reasons.
30:05
SPEAKER_03: And I slowly over time began to realize more than the fasting piece of it, and fasting looks so different.
30:12
SPEAKER_03: I had someone ask me, What do you actually mean by fasting?
30:15
SPEAKER_03: For me, most seasons 20 years ago, it meant like, you know, water, liquid.
30:20
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
30:21
SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm not in that season right now.
30:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:23
SPEAKER_03: And but there's still things that I know the Lord asked me to give up.
30:27
SPEAKER_03: But the most important thing being it's this pause, this selah, this setting the intention, seeing what the Lord's intention is for our lives, for this year.
30:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:37
SPEAKER_03: And not just like barreling through these are my goals, these are my aspirations, I'm gonna get them done, or on the other side, discouragement.
30:43
SPEAKER_03: It's January 10th.
30:44
SPEAKER_03: I still don't know what my goals are, or I wrote some down and I haven't even begun on them.
30:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:49
SPEAKER_03: So last year we talked about three different ways that we can help get perspective.
30:53
SPEAKER_03: And this year we're talking about getting in the word, worship, and writing.
30:58
SPEAKER_03: And so as we practice worship on a regular basis, and we've shared some ideas and what that looks like.
31:04
SPEAKER_03: For you as a worship leader corporately, we've talked about that.
31:08
SPEAKER_03: But for you personally, on a day in, day out, what does worship look like?
31:11
SPEAKER_03: What if you don't have a beautiful voice like yours or skills on the keys, or you know, all those different things that people sometimes go, well, I can't because I don't.
31:21
SPEAKER_03: What would you say to them?
31:22
SPEAKER_03: What could that look like?
31:24
SPEAKER_00: Man, I would just say, your face is lovely and your voice is sweet.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: I think that uh the Lord just loves the the voice of the human instrument, like he just loves the human instrument.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: Like he just loves that.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: There's something in the voice that moves his heart, and it's seen throughout scripture so many times.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Let me hear your voice, let me see your face, lift up your voice, lift up a shout, make a noise of worship, you know, all of that.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: Um for me in the day-to-day, uh, I am a professional chauffeur with my children.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: I am driving all over the place all the time.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: And so uh uh this is just my quirkiness, but usually I'll come across a song that I really like and it'll be on repeat for a really long time.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I do.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so a lot of times I'll just get in the car right now, especially as we're taking the kids to school.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, which is new and a transition from homeschooling.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Yes, homeschool to school.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: Putting on worship in the car on the way to school sets the tone for their day.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm seeing it change even from point A to point B in the car.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm seeing it change their mood and change their attitude.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: But I love to turn on that or just a song or something and just worship and just tell them who he is.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times there'll be seasons for me that songs resonate, you know?
32:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: So there'll be seasons where it's like this song feels like my life, right?
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah, and we connect with it.
32:49
SPEAKER_03: They're saying everything I'm feeling.
32:51
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, this is just or that I need to hear.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: This is the truth that I need to proclaim.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is what I need to remember, and it causes our faith to arise.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it just amazing.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: It it's like nurturing our faith, you know, when we're hearing worship or we're hearing messages or we're hearing the Bible, it's just something that begins to let our faith rise up.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: And so day to day for me, worship is that, and then just constantly, I'm constantly talking to the Lord throughout the day, just all the time.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even if it's just like help me, God.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, help me right now.
33:23
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what to do.
33:24
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, yeah.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: Or just I'm dealing with homework around two.
33:27
SPEAKER_02: Lord, please help me.
33:28
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: And also just I love like being caught in the busyness of the day, just driving and just thank you.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: Just thank you, God.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for what you've entrusted us with.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for what you've given.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: I think just the the testimony of my life is that I cannot keep myself, that the Lord has kept me.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's and what do you mean by keeping?
33:54
SPEAKER_00: What do you mean by you?
33:56
SPEAKER_00: By everything to me.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, my salvation, my belief, my faith, my um, there were days I could not pray myself out of discouragement.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: There were days I could not worship myself out of depression, and it was just like the Lord kept me in his hand when I literally could not do anything, I could offer him nothing.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: And somehow he he preserved me.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: It's that Psalm 16 when David's like, preserve me.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: I have no good apart from you.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, yes, I have lived that, I have felt that, I know that.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: And I love what my my mom has told me all my life.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, she's just always said, Katie, if you can learn to sing in the wilderness, you can sing anywhere.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's good.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: If you can learn to sing through the pressures and the pain and the despair and the discouragement and struggle, uh, then you can sing through victory and mountains and valleys and blessing and all of it, you know.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: And it's if you can lift a song up to the Lord in the hardest time of your life, then you can sing anywhere.
35:07
SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
35:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love it.
35:09
SPEAKER_03: Oh, beautiful.
35:10
SPEAKER_03: So good.
35:11
SPEAKER_03: I really hope my prayer is that you know, that those will be reminded of the power of worship.
35:17
SPEAKER_03: Yes, not only corporately, but individually and um and just the power of it setting our intention.
35:25
SPEAKER_03: And I think I so often underestimate how it can change the atmosphere and underestimate too, kind of what you said, that you're you're borrowing their faith.
35:35
SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's you know, specifically those anointed songs, and they're probably anointed all the time, but for our seasons, yes, how it it speaks to that weak area of faith or the thing that we need boistered a little bit more of like, oh, remind me who you are, God.
35:49
SPEAKER_03: Remind me how you see me, and those songs lead us to that place, to that truth once again.
35:54
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
35:55
SPEAKER_03: Uh I love it.
35:56
SPEAKER_03: So good.
35:56
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so my girls had one question that they wanted me to ask you.
36:00
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so prayer meeting last week.
36:03
SPEAKER_03: It was on fire.
36:04
SPEAKER_03: Like awesome, Holy Spirit fire.
36:07
SPEAKER_03: Okay, it's so good.
36:08
SPEAKER_03: It was so good.
36:09
SPEAKER_03: I like I mean, I'm not there every week, but there was something unique, and I don't know if it's our season of prayer and fasting, but they love that song that you do the bridge for.
36:19
SPEAKER_03: And I am not gonna try to sing it, but do you know what I'm talking about?
36:22
SPEAKER_00: We see you in our lives and in our eyes and in our breathing.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes, they're like, Did Katie write that?
36:28
SPEAKER_03: Did she make that up?
36:29
SPEAKER_03: Did you?
36:29
SPEAKER_03: Yes, everyone everywhere should know about that.
36:32
SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
36:33
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
36:34
SPEAKER_03: They did.
36:34
SPEAKER_03: I, you know, it was one of those things they asked me.
36:36
SPEAKER_03: It was like, I think she did.
36:37
SPEAKER_03: I've not heard it anywhere else.
36:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I mean I remember the first time I heard you do that on a Sunday morning, and I was like, Whoa.
36:46
SPEAKER_03: So good.
36:47
SPEAKER_03: It was it was it took my breath away.
36:48
SPEAKER_03: It still does.
36:49
SPEAKER_03: It rests my heart.
36:50
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if it's just me again.
36:52
SPEAKER_03: It's one of those things, like, I don't know if everyone's feeling this, but um but my girls did, and I thought that was really neat.
36:58
SPEAKER_03: Just because they were like, Awesome.
36:59
SPEAKER_03: Did Miss Katie write that?
37:01
SPEAKER_03: Because it's so good.
37:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
37:03
SPEAKER_03: And then you and then you went in on to that whole idea too.
37:06
SPEAKER_03: There was um and that's what I thought.
37:09
SPEAKER_03: There was there was kind of like it was great, and then it just kind of put it over the top.
37:13
SPEAKER_03: But the whole idea, you're again, it was just this bridge or refrain of um, you know, standing on our shoulders of faith, or that our ceiling will be their floor.
37:24
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
37:25
SPEAKER_03: And I I just was so moved, uh, just having my daughters there in the room in particular, and just thinking about that and um just the power of that.
37:34
SPEAKER_03: Like, may that be so, may that be true of us, that whatever we do here on earth, uh that none of it would be futile and would be about the next generation standing on our ceiling.
37:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, that's that would be for.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: And especially in worship, I'm like, I love, you know, when we get to see, like I was saying a little bit earlier before, when we get to see these incredible worship leaders or incredible speakers, and they're doing things and it's like it's moving our heart so deeply.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to me, it's God's putting on display what's possible.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: And that's what it is.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: And that's good.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: It's to me, it's not a um, you know, it's not a, hey, these gifts are only for these, this personality type or this type of person, and it's just not true.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: It's right, we just display what's possible and then we hope that everyone sees it and runs with it.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like that's the heart of the Lord.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's not about these special things set aside for only special people and speaking personal, right?
38:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:34
SPEAKER_00: It's not, it's God's putting on display what's possible.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: And he's going, if they can do this, so can you.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: For your glory, Lord.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: Yes, glory.
38:45
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
38:45
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you for this.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: And I do have to say that other chorus, the ceiling and the floor, is my friend's chorus.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: Is it?
38:53
SPEAKER_00: And we had fun going, we would sing back and forth these choruses together.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: And someone local?
38:59
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: That one has always just stuck with me.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: I love that chorus because it just stirs something up inside of us.
39:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
39:06
SPEAKER_03: And I think, I think it it's something in particular.
39:10
SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's our age or the fact that we're parents, or I think getting that heart.
39:16
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't think I would have understood that as a youth.
39:20
SPEAKER_03: But now the power of those words, like, may that be so.
39:24
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
39:24
SPEAKER_03: Um, is is really, really great.
39:26
SPEAKER_03: Well, we love it.
39:27
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
39:28
SPEAKER_03: I'm so grateful to get to do radiant life with you.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: And same.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Get to be a recipient.
39:34
SPEAKER_02: It's so great.
39:35
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
39:36
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
39:37
SPEAKER_03: I really have loved listening back to this and sharing this again with you.
39:41
SPEAKER_03: I hope that you've been inspired and encouraged to engage in new levels of worship, not only at your weekly church service, but in your daily rhythm as well.
39:50
SPEAKER_03: Be sure and let Katie know how much you appreciated her wisdom and thoughts on worship.
39:54
SPEAKER_03: I put the best way to connect with her in the show notes.
39:57
SPEAKER_03: She really would love to hear from you.
39:59
SPEAKER_03: Next week, I am finishing our three weeks to a new year with a replay of my episode with Glenn Packham.
40:06
SPEAKER_03: We talked about the rhythm of writing.
40:09
SPEAKER_03: It really was such a good conversation, and I wanted to be sure to have you hear it again as you set up your rhythms for 2024.
40:18
SPEAKER_03: Until next time, friend, continue to pursue God's perspective, purpose, and plans for your simply wholehearted life.