Latest / TWRS-Leadership Straight, No Chaser / Why Curiosity Makes You a Better Leader

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Why Curiosity Makes You a Better Leader · TWRS-Leadership Straight, No Chaser

• Scott: So we think about it, there are things that will hold true, and then there are shifts that take place, but are we ready for those shifts to take place? And are we trying to stay ahead of it or are we getting caught up? Welcome back to Together We Are Stronger, Leadership Straight, No Chasers. And tonight I have David Lengyel on with me. And David, I know you've been doing communication team building with business owners, with leaders for over four decades. And so There are things that will hold true over four decades and then there's are shifts that will take place. And so when we look at the world of leadership of business owners, what is the top thing that's held true over those four decades with what you do? And then what are things that have shifted that business owners aren't paying attention to or maybe it's not top of mind and they're actually doing themselves a disservice in those that they work with? David Lengyel: You bet. You bet. Yeah, it's good to be with you. So yeah, I mean, we we run all different types of experiential based training programs, communications, leadership, and all that stuff. We started as an extreme mountaineering company. And our clients were primarily CEOs, CFOs that could take off for three, four weeks, six weeks and go climb some big icy mountains. But then they came back and started asking, we can we do team building. Back in the early eighties, we didn't really know what that was, but then we looked hard at it. But they're you know, they didn't have they didn't have five or six people, they had five hundred people, and they didn't have six weeks, they had three or four hours. And so we looked at it and we thought, well, hell, we've been doing this type of thing all our life in a variety of ways with real consequences. And so by the late eighties we had transitioned into it, and of course that's what we've been doing ever since. point is that in you know, with all the different types of companies that we work with, and it's across the board, pharmaceuticals, financials, whatever, engineering, manufacturing operations. Every company in the first is in the business of people. And that's one thing that of course has never changed, right? You can't do it alone. And when I say the business of people, I don't mean your customers. That has nothing to do with it. It's your c it's your employees. You've got to treat your employees like your most important customers because ultimately you can't do it alone. You can try, but you're going to be a lot more limited and a lot more restricted in terms of what you can accomplish. So if we just take that really simple premise in terms of I can't do this without other people. I need other people with me to be able to accomplish my goals, then we have to start thinking, well, how can we treat those people so that they're comfortable? Because every single person out there has got their own dreams, their own biases, their own, of course, ways to look at challenges. they bring their own baggage, just like every leader brings that also. And so it's a matter of trying to put those two things together so people feel like they are. rewarded and there's a dream and there's something to believe in so that hopefully we can all move forward and accomplish whatever that job or that business is. I don't care if you're climbing a mountain or if you're you know building gadgets and you're selling them nationally, internationally. The biggest challenge coming up today, of course, of course is the with advent of AI. It's it's changed everything similar in a lot of ways the way COVID did when it pushed everybody into more of a virtual background. And I always think of COVID actually, because again, we do experiential programming, which means instead of talking about communication styles and all those types of things, we play these games and the games are metaphors. Well, if you think about COVID, all of a sudden everybody around the world was pushed to solve a problem with a certain restriction. And it was really tough for a lot of people, a lot of companies, but people figured it out. They figured out how to communicate better, how to organize, how to create supply chains, whatever it may be, with those restrictions of being virtual. And I always think about COVID as being like the biggest global experiential training program ever possible for people. Well, now AI is the same. AI is never going to be more stupid than it is today, right? And it is far from stupid. And the reality is that. You know, there's a lot of people who are really embracing it, a lot of different cultures, a lot of different companies or countries and so forth. In our own country, we have a lot of people who are really adopting it. It's probably more skilled, maybe more educated, people who can really see the value of what it can do in terms of them being able to do more quicker, faster. But you also have a lot of resistance to it. There's a lot of concern. A lot of people are concerned about what's it gonna do to their job. A lot of people are concerned about maybe the discrepancies about who's gonna benefit. But the reality is it's not going to go away. And so I think that there's this sweet spot for people. If you're twenty two, twenty-three, thirty-five, late thirties, you're in the best position in the world to take advantage of AI. Because if you're younger, you're still in high school, you're still trying to figure it out, trying to mature and so forth. If you're older, you probably are kind of like already entrenched in something. Doing some kind of a business, some kind of a process, and it's going to be hard to change. All you're just trying to do is solve your everyday problems. But if you're in that sweet spot, mid-20s, late 30s, you've got a skill set and you have the opportunity to embrace it and figure out how you can explode in terms of utilizing it and being part of that whole advancement, if that makes sense. I mean, Scott: Mm-hmm. David Lengyel: we think a lot about it, and I think there's a big opportunity out there. Scott: So it's interesting. There was a book I read about two years ago called The Dream Manager. I don't know if you've ever heard of the book or seen it before. But it's an interesting premises on where the business ended up creating a spot for somebody to actually talk to individuals and say, Hey, what is it that you dream about? And then like you had talked about the situation is your business is going to rise and fall with the employees that you have, with those that are coming and bringing the talent. And then you want to treat them as individuals because we are all individuals. But the it's a very interesting thing because you talked about going from 500 a very large workforce and now we're to smaller workforces, but it still seems as if a lot of people struggle with getting to know the individual. We're so busy and we're like we have all these boxes that we gotta check, that we have all these numbers that we gotta run after, and then we forget about the person behind it that is driving that. And so is that something where you see where with the downsizing we still have the issue of people actually taking the time to get to know somebody, really know what does it that drives this person, who is it, what are their aspirations, and then you've got to From a larger work size to a smaller work size, but it just seems like we haven't taken the time and said, Okay, now we don't have as many people that we gotta take care of, but we're still acting like we're a very large corporation or large entity and we're missing the human element. David Lengyel: Yeah, yeah, I think there's a lot to unpack there. number one, I don't think business is any different than it's been for the last, you know, if eight decades. I mean, amazing, incredible businesses were built long before mobile phones came on, computers, fax machines, anything else. It's unbelievable what people can do could do, right? The difference is that those companies who really excelled in general had more people. They had more labor. They had more people involved because they didn't have all the technology to make things go. quicker, faster, more focused. And so as you mentioned, now of course everything's been able to be more efficient. We can downside, we can do so much more with so many fewer people. But there's a couple of challenges there. If you talk about leadership, if you talk about company owners, CEOs, CFOs, whatever it is, people got into that position because they were really good at something, right? They excelled at something, which means they took control. They were accountable for their own accomplishments, for their own Time management for what they did, how they did it, who did things, they were in total control. And because of that, they're kind of control freaks. And that has not changed. The big change is that now with AI, it's not a matter of we can get more analysis, ideas, alternatives, potential solutions, quicker than we ever could, right? It's amazing for brainstorming. But but but faster doesn't mean better. And so the big challenge now is, you know. AI can create the efficiency, but people are gonna have to create the effectiveness around it. It's the question is not what can we do, but what do we do? And that's a whole different ball game now. And so managers need to do two things. Leadership needs to do things because they've got to get that connection. AI has only ramped it up in terms of the potential disconnect and the expectations. First thing they need to do is look in the mirror. They need to learn to manage themselves. And that's as old as anything, right? They need to understand that they all have biases. They all have emotional ways they approach problems and approach people, they all have ways they communicate, and they've got to make sure that whatever their goals are clear to themselves so they can translate that information and that style to the people they work with. You know, people aren't aren't measured by what they think they're gonna be doing, which a lot of managers think. They're measured on what they actually accomplish and what people hear. And if it's based on other people, it's not what I say, it's what you understood. And so it really goes back to that communication thing. Of course, we're all so darn busy all the time. We all think we're so good at communicating. We do it all day long, talk to each other, send out reports, do presentations. But the reality is, is that most of us really need to work on it. Because most communications are like, hey, you know what I mean, you know what I mean, or hey, we've done this before, just take care of it. But the point is, is that Nobody really understands anything. And communications isn't just to get things done. It's getting people to take a risk. Because anything is action-oriented. There's a risk of getting in trouble. There's a risk of doing it wrong. There's a risk of losing money. The risk of somebody getting hurt. The risk of making somebody upset. And so we've got to make sure we give people the tools to be able to mitigate that risk. I don't care if again you're working in a business or you're running a big expedition on some big mountain. The reality is it's all real and you're playing with people's personal styles and their personal abilities and success to all those people is different. And so that whole communications, taking time to clarify, making sure everybody's on the same page. It's all really easy to say, but it's difficult to do. But it comes back to the time management has to make sure those people that represent all that diversity can get engaged. Because here's the bottom line. Everybody needs three things. They need something to believe in. They need something to work on. And they need something to look forward to. I don't care if it's your own business. I don't care if it's your own dream or if you're working with me on my business and my ideas. They need something to work on, something to look forward to, and something to satisfy their particular needs. I don't know if that answered your question, but the lot there. Scott: Yeah, no, there's a lot. There's quite there's quite a few nuggets in there. So but one partner I want to highlight is ADP with our partnership with them. And like you had talked about the risk mitigation. And so as business owners doing like the back end compliance HLR apparel, if you're not well versed in that and it's not what you need to be doing, you gotta talk to ADP. They're there to really run that so that way you can be in your zone of genius and mitigate not doing it well by them. Being in their expertise. So if you're struggling with that, reach out to ADP. There will be a link in the show notes to schedule your call. And so it's funny because you had talked about communication. And so for myself and George, we talk about the power of being a student. myself, I went and sat through some training. I don't remember the gentleman's name. Vin Vin something. But he had talked about that with communication it's a skill set that we all have to develop. And it's just very interesting how people assume that they can communicate. But if you look, we're born and we have very few skills when we're born, and everything else is something that we have to work on. And so it is a very interesting thing about how a lot of business owners, a lot of leaders are like, Well I don't wanna show weakness, so I'm good in this, but then they don't really understand the impact of not being strong in another area and being weak and what that does for others by bringing them down, miscommunication, missing out on connecting with people, but also the other aspect of communication is taking the time to actually listen to somebody, hear them out and say, Okay, what is the problem that they're dealing with? What is that pain point that we want to solve and work together? And it's just one of those skill sets that a lot of people don't work on. They blow it off and then they wonder why nobody wants to deal with them because they ha are lacking in this skill set that they're overlooking. David Lengyel: Yeah, you know, there's so there's definitely a skill set to communicate. If you think about communications is getting people to take an action, actions are risky. With any process, the better we can define it, the better you can work at it to try to improve at it, right? Hey, if I just say, Hey, we have to do better teamwork, well, that means all kinds of stuff. You know, maybe it's gotta be communications, maybe it's building alignment, creating some clarity, whatever it may be, right? But you know, here's the bottom line is I don't believe Or I'm letting put this way. I I believe everybody knows how to communicate well. They don't have to really be taught. Maybe it has to be defined so they understand what they're doing. But I say everybody knows how to communicate well because anybody, when you have a lot on the line, like you have a lot of money you're gonna lose, or your job's on the line, or you're potentially gonna get hurt. Everybody gets really good at communicating. It's like, you know, a police car drives by, I become the best driver. Right. But the reality is is that when you have a lot to lose, you're gonna make sure you do anything you can not to get hurt. And so then if you start thinking, well, what is good communications? If I break that down, then maybe I won't start making those assumptions when I'm actually just talking to people in a normal circumstance, or if I just need to get some information out there. You know, you mentioned that listening, you know, that of course we all think we're really good listeners, just like we think we're good communicators. But the reality is, and you know, okay, listening is in 90% of communications, but the reality is a lot of people listen with the idea of how I'm going to talk you into my way of thought. Well, Scott: Mm-hmm. David Lengyel: I'm just thinking, I'm just listening long enough to be able to kind of like think about how I'm going to debate this subject over to the way I like things to go anyway, right? And that's not listening at all. Listening is, of course, trying to learn what you know so I can apply it to my own bank of knowledge and maybe take a look at things a little differently. The other thing is that, you know, you mentioned, well why don't why don't leaders sometimes why do they hesitate? Well they hesitate for a lot of reasons. Number one, I guess the one thing to remember is that if you got into a leadership position or you started a business or whatever it may be, you had a certain skill set other people didn't have. You were good at something, whatever it may be. But that doesn't mean you were really good at the soft skills of working with other people. And so Hesitation is kind of common with a lot of leaders. Why? And they call it patience, right? We'll just address this later and hope something's gonna work out. But hope is never a plan. So but they don't wanna make enemies, right? They don't want to embarrass anybody. They don't want to rock the boat because they just have got this long list of stuff they're trying to get through. But really effective leadership with time realizes that being up front with people and being clear. People like to know what the name of the game is. They like to know the rules are. They can decide how much they can be engaged, and then they can decide how this whole process is gonna move forward. Because if they don't really know the rules, you know what happens? People make assumptions. Scott: Mm-hmm. David Lengyel: And that's where companies get hurt. You and I just start talking, you know, over the lunch table because we literally don't know what the we don't know what the we don't know what the the whatever the topic is that we're actually got questions about in the organization. And so we fill in the blanks. Scott: yeah. David Lengyel: And that's where we start running. Companies don't run into problems because of this massive failure. They run into problems because of lots and lots and lots of small challenges and decisions and cracks that grow into larger problems. And those problems have to do with people, not processes. Do we cut some slack? Do we not hold that person accountable? Are we saying what we do? Are we doing what we say? Or is it just simply a bunch of writing on the wall that hopefully motivates people? The people don't judge by what's written on the wall. They're going to judge by the way people are interacting with them and the other people around them. You know, the bottom line is your employees, you're a biggest brand. I Scott: Mm-hmm. David Lengyel: don't care if you're if you're a company of of 10 or if you're a company of 10,000. People stay with companies because they like the people they work with and they believe in the message. You know, if it's all just about making money, you can go make money anywhere. People will take jobs a lot of times because for less pay because they it believe in the purpose, they love the people they work with, and they believe this they believe in the stability that they have. And Scott: Mm. David Lengyel: that's a huge difference. That's your brand right there. Scott: Yeah, no, it's right now if you're getting nuggets from the video, hit the like button. If you're looking for these sub types of videos, hit the subscribe button. And as you're listening right now, if there's areas that you're like, hmm, I could get better and it ultimately George and I talk about it. It's how do you get better one by one percent each day? Because if you think about it, it's a very small percentage. But what is it that you can do that can help you level up, get better, lead people in a better direction? lead yourself in a better direction because if you can't manage yourself then it's gonna be very hard to manage others. so that's something that you want to think about. What is it when it comes to a team that is thriving and the teams that are struggling, what is it that you see that's missing with teams that are struggling and then when a team that's thriving, what is it that separates them? David Lengyel: I think I think the I mean it can be a variety of things. You know, number one, so the team that is thriving is know, obviously taking ownership and engagement and all that kind of stuff. But I would suggest that they're taking pride in whatever it is that they're doing. And so then that kind of goes back to the idea that comfort really doesn't create pride within teams. You know, we can have foos ball tables and have free lunches and massages. But that doesn't really create a better, well-oiled team. What creates the pride is the challenges that are well spilt out and then the ability to accomplish it with that team support. Of course, everybody realizing that we could do 10 times more together than we could ever do individually. That's the whole idea of any team out there, right? In terms of the other things that, you know, I think separate teams that are thriving versus struggling, and that's just of course the environment of the the atmosphere they're working in. Again, you know, we we hear all kinds of platitudes, we say all kinds of things. Hey, we're open to new ideas as an example. Well, a lot of times leaders are open to new ideas, but there's a qualification around it. It depends on who the messenger is, right? Depends on how much money they make, what their educational background is, what experience they have, right? So I'm gonna I I love your idea, but hey well I'm gonna judge you first to make sure That I can respect your idea and you're worth the time listening to. But that's a big problem. It's because our biggest bias a lot of times with solving any problem is our level of expertise. The more experience I have had with anything, the more I have a tendency, number one, to minimize the communications around it, because maybe I understand it really well. I just expect you to be able to do it. Number two, which isn't healthy in terms of trying to get people to take actions, right? Number two, The more experience I have with something, whether it's me or our team, the more we have a tendency to just like keep doing it the same way. Because we already know how to solve the problem, right? And that doesn't mean we're resistant to change. I hear that all the time. I don't believe people are resistant to change at all. If I present a new way of solving a problem that's gonna affect ROI or affect safety or marketability or share, whatever it may be, everybody's gonna embrace it. But the problem is people don't know what to do to change. And so it's easier to just keep doing it the same way. And so then that really becomes the idea of okay sh sharing ideas. Well, I've worked a lot of times with product engineers where they'll be behind a plate of glass looking at a new idea, and they'll bring in people off the street or out of facilities or out of accounting or whatever. And they they have these people look at the product and play around with the product and ask questions and and those engineers are looking at it from the background, looking at, wow, look at what they just said, look at what they just did. Because they don't have the experience or the baggage of solving the problem the way it's always been solved. And there are all kinds of examples of that around the industry, where it started with this and somebody had an idea and it blew into something else. And relative r very rarely is this idea ever gonna be like right here, and then this person's gonna take it from A to B to C all the way to Z. No. Most ideas start with something, start with a unusual idea, a question, a way of looking at something, and then somebody builds off of it. And then somebody builds off of that. And that is the true value of a team. And that's where I think thriving teams work, because there's no stupid ideas. There's no idea it doesn't matter if I've been with the company for two weeks or twenty years. I'm just looking at something different. Here's the thing is that the massive advantage of having young people in an organization is that they're curious. And as we get older and we become more entrenched, we become more educated, more experienced, but we start losing curiosity. So we work with a lot of big fat old companies, right? Because to get where they were, took curiosity and drive. But now they get so entrenched on doing it the same way that they become restricted. And so that whole idea is hey, we all just have to improve one, two, three percent, yeah, that works. But I can tell you there's somebody out there who's got a new idea that maybe doesn't know enough why they may fail. But it's not going to be two or three percent, it's gonna be a 20% improvement, whatever it may be. And that's really something to think about. And here's the the final comment on it is if you think about any company. I don't care if it's a small company or a big company. It was started by somebody who had a new idea of doing something differently, approaching it differently to create more marketability, more effectiveness, more customer service. And then maybe it grew into something of whatever the size it is. But it didn't start with all of the the it didn't start with all the market share and all the planning. Being able to put it all together. It was a Amazon's a great idea, right? It was a book selling company for God's sakes. Lots of them are the same way. Warner Lambert, Dairy Queen, other across the board, most companies started with something and they grew into something totally different because they were flexible to markets and new ideas. Scott: Yeah, so another partner of ours, Dr. Joey, this kind of fits in as you're growing your business. If you're stuck at 150,000 to 3 million in revenue and you just don't know what to do, Dr. Joey is big on helping you overcome, figure that out really so you can drive forward because the more revenue that you make as business, the more you can go create impact. So if you're stuck and you don't know what to do, reach out to Dr. Joey. There'll be a link in the show notes, schedule your call. And I laugh because people will use sayings but they don't know the whole saying. So I don't know if you've heard Curiosity killed the cat. And a lot of people like to live by this and this is why they're like, I don't want to be curious because of this. It's crazy. But the the interesting thing is the actual saying is Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back. And so as humans we look to grow. But you have a lot of individuals that stagnate. They're like, I don't want to be curious, what happens? That comfort zone piece comes into the line. And so this is that piece there, like you were talking about, where that lack of curiosity ends up hurting you in the long run. But it's the fact that a lot of people don't want to take the risk because what if it doesn't work out? What happens on David Lengyel: Absolutely. Scott: the other side? We don't know what's on the other side. That's why people like their comfort zone. But real life is on the other side of your comfort zone. And it's just so very interesting how people avoid curiosity. And then they wonder why they're stagn they're dealing with stagnation, there's no growth. They wonder why people are outperforming And it's just the lack of curiosity. David Lengyel: Yeah, that means that whole whole what's your what's your your appetite for risk, of course, right? I don't I don't care what it is that you're gonna. I mean, I'm that's the that's the difference between investing in mutual funds and investing in individual stocks. It's that simple. You can take more risk, you'll you'll feel like maybe you can do one or the other. But but but the reality is, and I guess you think about it when we talk to kids. You talk to a young child, and parents will be like, you can be anything. You can do anything. What do you want to do when you grow up? I want to be a river god. I want to be a president. I want to be an astronaut. Whatever, right? Parents are like, well, you can do it. Just keep, just go, keep going, right? But then that kid gets to be about 18 years old. What do we do? you can't do that because you don't have the education, the money, the experience. And so get rid of your dreams. We all do it. Because we're so much educated, we have so much more experience, we want to push that on to other people. But I just go back to the whole idea, you know, okay, well, most businesses are they started by young people or are they started by old people? By far, by young people. Because young people, again, they have a naivety in terms of maybe what they don't know. And the opportunities are endless because they they're limited. Their experience is limited. Right. But they have the drive and the energy to just figure it out. Most businesses are going to survive if they run out of money, they run out of time, one or the other, right? But the point is, is that and and obviously there's something about mitigated risk and calculated risk, because d you can't lose everything. So you've got to understand how much you can risk. But that's why it's easier to start a business when you're younger. When you have less to lose, less responsibility, and that level of curiosity, versus being older when maybe you have a family, you've got to worry about college degree educations, you got mortgages, car l whatever it may be, right? You have all these reasons why I can't do it right now. But I can tell you that working with Thousands and thousands of people and lots and lots of companies. The vast majority of them will tell you, I wish I did something else Scott: Mm. David Lengyel: when I was younger. You know, I I think to myself there's like a little exercise you can play or you can use when it comes to making decisions sometimes. And I think to myself, You know, close your eyes and and think about yourself in ten years from now. Only the situation's not that great. Whatever that means. I don't care if you're a destitute, I don't care if you're just trapped, I don't care if you're unhappy, I don't care what it is that is, where you live, your financial situation, whatever it may be, but it's not positive. And then I want you to be thinking to yourself in that ten years from now, in that situation. So often you'll think to yourself, if I only made a different decision 10 years ago. Whatever that was, taking drugs, getting an education, taking a risk, whatever it is. And then I want you to open your eyes and you think to yourself, you're here now. It's not 10 years from now, you're where you are right now. And maybe it's not the best situation. Maybe you have limited resources, but what you have is not what you just thought about 10 years from now. Don't make the best of it. Whether you're working on my team, whether you're building your own self-confidence to be able to do something that makes you happy, living where you want to live, doing whatever that profession is, today's the time. You know, it's that old thing. The best time to plant an oak tree was 10 years ago. The second best time is right now, that type of thing. So I'm just a really big believer that that people are in charge of their own destiny. I don't care what you're apt to do for risk is not everybody's gonna be a mountaineer. Not everybody's gonna build a business, but we all just have a life we wanna live and you gotta define what is important to you. Yeah, Trump. Scott: So I look at like when it comes to challenges, I think a lot of people are hesitant of facing challenges. But I think as we're talking about the aspect of curiosity, when you're curious, challenges look different than if you lack the curiosity gene or just the lack of curiosity at all together. When you face challenges, it looks completely different because you're like, what can go wrong? It's like, okay, what can I learn from this situation? And so when it comes to teams and running from challenges, leaders running from challenges, is that something that is a lack of somebody not possessing a huge amount of curiosity to kind of learn and see what they can gather from it, or is there something else that comes into play of kind of running from challenges? David Lengyel: Well, I think I think on all organizations, of course, it takes teams like we're talking about. And so obviously they're working for a company, right? And so those people like to be part of that that wheel. They like the stability that the company offers. They like the opportunities, hopefully, that the company's gonna offer. they like the structure that it offers. If people aren't comfortable doing something that's expected within their their their organization, then I go back to the leaders, that's again, they probably didn't give them the tools to be able to feel comfortable making that action. I mean, it's just that simple. And and if you and if you look at whatever the person's doing, they're doing something better than maybe somebody with zero experience is doing it. And so they've grown with it given the level of experience and practice they've gotten. But if they're having a hard time taking the next step, then they're obviously thinking the risk is too great because maybe I don't really understand what the consequences are to be able to or or I think I understand what the consequences are. And I don't I don't feel like I have any control over those different things that are going to affect me. I feel like I'm out of control, right? And and and that comes back to leadership to make sure they have the skill or they have the resources. Yeah, I'll tell you a really quick story. I was I was working with a big international hotel chain many, many years ago and big global chain. And we were working with a particular property and we had been contacted by the managing director to come in. He was having a challenge with his leadership team. And and there were I think there were whatever, maybe ten, ten, twelve people on the team. And back then we sent out all these questionnaires prior and they sent them back to us anonymously. Hey, looked at resources and Strengths and communication styles and all this kind of stuff. But it was all anonymous. And we tallied it all up, right? And we looked at the results. And it all the vast majority of it pointed at this person's leadership style. He was a certain character, had a certain style, it was pretty rough. But the point is, he had a lot of skilled people, and he was pointing at his style. But he was our client. He hired us, he called us. So we went in with him and we sat there and we Went over the report. He was looking at it behind his desk. And he asked us, How many copies of this do we have? And we said, Well, that's happens to be the only copy. And he took it and he threw it in the trash right in front of us. And we're like, Okay. And he said, We're gonna start tomorrow morning, because that's when the whole program was starting. And we said, Well, what about the report? Your your staff is gonna be wondering about it. He's like, I don't really care about it. He said, You're gonna have to kind of glance over that. Because if this ever got to corporate, I'd be out of a job. The point is that he was looking at this as criticism as opposed to a way of helping him learn how to work with the staff who were incredibly capable and could make everything really move within this organization. Scott: Mm. David Lengyel: So my point is it comes back to the leader and the person who's trying to push that boat forward. Scott: So like David Lengyel: Anyway. Scott: he sounded like he was a huge yes man and everybody around him like yes, yes, yes and like didn't challenge him and so he's like okay and then he got challenged and then he's like, No, forget this, like this is not happening. So that's crazy. But it is David Lengyel: That was gonna be his way or no way. Scott: it's a it's a point of lesson though there too, really like finding a way to be open to what people are saying and not taking it as an attack. It depends on how the person's talking, but there's times though that you want to have that open mind and listen. Because there might be something that somebody's sharing and if you're not being in the moment and not present, you might miss something out that could be that missing piece, that key that you need to help you level up, to help you be in a better position to move other people forward. So it's one of those points. David Lengyel: Course, absolutely. Scott: Yeah, it's one of those interesting things. So David, as individuals that are listening, if they really enjoy what you share, the value of the information that you're sharing, where can they go to learn more about what you offer, the different things that you offer within The organization that you run. David Lengyel: Yeah, so you know, we do experiential training. we work with leadership teams, small intact teams of seven, eight, ten people and we work with companies that are a thousand plus sometimes. we're at we're on the web at www.ventureup dot com and by far the easiest way to get a hold of us. We we have we've been around for forty years and so we have quite an extensive of the type of program. Scott: Awesome. Yeah, I'll put that in the show notes so that way it's easy for people to find and whatnot. But as you're listening, if you're looking for these types of videos, hit the subscribe button. And if you're stuck, you're probably missing in some curiosity there. Like we talked about. It's a very interesting thing because with a lack of curiosity, you don't go and try different things because that fear is holding you back. So tap into curiosity, see what's back there and you just never know what you might discover. So We appreciate you guys coming on the journey with us, allowing us to be part of your journey and we'll catch you on the next episode. David Lengyel: Thank you. Good luck with every