Latest / The Money and Banking Law Podcast with Joe Silvia / Duaa Najam: Her Journey and Career Aspirations in International Banking and Fintech

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Duaa Najam: Her Journey and Career Aspirations in International Banking and Fintech · The Money and Banking Law Podcast with Joe Silvia

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to the Money in Banking Law
• 0:01
  podcast with Joe Sylvia, brought to you by Duane
• 0:04
  Morris, an international law firm with roughly
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  30 offices and a thousand lawyers all over the
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  world. I'm your host, Joe Sylvia. I'm a former
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  Federal Reserve lawyer who represents banks,
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  fintechs, and financial services clients on M
• 0:15
  &A, payments, and regulatory matters at Duane
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  Morris. I'm also a core member of our banking,
• 0:20
  fintech, and digital assets and blockchain practices.
• 0:23
  Now, while we can't provide legal, financial,
• 0:25
  investment, or tax advice on the podcast, the
• 0:28
  goal of the Money and Banking Law Podcast is
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  to inform and educate clients and friends on
• 0:34
  fundamental concepts and structure with respect
• 0:36
  to the banking ecosystem, as well as critical
• 0:39
  developments in the law and regulation of money
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  and banking. So thanks for joining us today.
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  As always, if you have any questions from any
• 0:45
  of our podcast episodes, please reach out to
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  me, jsilvia at duanemorris .com. On this episode,
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  we're talking about an international attorney
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  from Pakistan's journey into the U .S. banking
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  regulatory system with Dua Najm, who is an LLM
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  candidate for banking and finance law at Boston
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  University. So welcome, Dua. So grateful for
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  your time. I'd love to start by asking you to
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  give a brief introduction on your background
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  so that our audience can learn a little bit more
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  about you. Great. Thank you so much, Joe. It's
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  actually great to be here. So I am an international
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  attorney from Pakistan, and I'm currently pursuing
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  my LLM in the banking and financial area at Boston
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  University School of Law. While I'm also completing
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  a master's degree from University of Edinburgh
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  in tech law. And I have completed my LB honors
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  from the UK, which has given me a head start
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  in the common law area. Also, currently, I am
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  interning with the digital chambers. And I'm
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  also involved with the Boston Bar Association.
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  And I also serve on the panel of the Pakistani
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  Young Lawyers Association, working on different
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  projects. That's a lot of stuff going on for
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  you. I really appreciate the background. I did
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  notice that you're working with the digital chamber
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  of which Dwayne Morris is members and got really
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  great relationships with the folks there. So
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  excited to learn a little bit more about that
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  in the future too. So let's start at the beginning.
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  You've got such an interesting background. We've
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  connected, we've talked about it before when
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  we met at the American Bar Association Banking
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  Law Committee just recently. So can you walk
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  us through your journey and what led you from
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  not only from Pakistan, but also from your background
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  into FinTech digital assets and the things that
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  you've been working on. Great. I would love to
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  talk about it. So I remember. I did my law school
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  from the UK, as I mentioned, right? So I went
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  from Pakistan and I was like, you know what?
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  I want to be a lawyer. And my dad was like, you
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  want to be a lawyer? Pursuing law and especially
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  as a female back in my country is not very common
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  and not very... People aren't very excited about
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  it, but I did it. And I wanted to pursue it in
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  the UK. And I made a conscious decision after
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  my three years of law school. I made a decision
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  to come back to Pakistan because I wanted to
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  see how the legal work works back there as well.
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  And so I started to work with one of the biggest
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  fintech companies back in my country. And I became
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  involved in a project. which is the largest cash
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  distribution project and social protection project
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  back in my country. And through this project,
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  the government provides financial support to
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  underprivileged women who actually live in these
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  remote areas. And payments are delivered through
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  digital wallets rather than your banks or...
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  like physical bank branches. So being on ground
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  with these women was like very eye -opening for
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  me. And that made me realize how much I want
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  to go into this area of law is fintech, and banking,
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  and tech, and especially with the amount of reach
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  that this project had made me super excited about
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  it. And seeing the scale of seeing the scale
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  and the amount of impact that it had made me
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  realize how much I really want to go into this
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  field and actually become a lawyer that wants
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  to help these women more and more. Because I
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  see a lot of women like me, they're very underrepresented.
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  for women from those areas, it was easy to communicate
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  to them, being from the same gender, having the
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  same language. And yeah, so that I feel like
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  if somebody asks me this amazing question, I
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  always say is that... That project was so eye
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  -opening for me and that made me really want
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  to pursue law and do what I'm doing right now
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  as a young attorney, as a young lawyer. So, yeah,
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  hopefully that answers your question. Yeah, no,
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  that's great. I mean, we have, as we've talked
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  about, you know, we have a lot of international
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  clients and perspectives. And in our, especially
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  in our FinTech and digital assets group, the
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  ability and just the potential for getting access
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  to financial services to women in Pakistan, folks
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  in Africa, name your underrepresented populations
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  where they just don't have traditional access.
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  It's such a fascinating thing to explore with
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  clients and other kind of payments, money transfers,
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  whatever. It's just really fascinating to explore
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  it. And then obviously coming from the legal
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  perspective is, you know, it's a little bit,
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  there's the tech side of it, which is like, okay,
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  how do we actually get to these people? But then
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  from the legal perspective, it's like, well,
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  how do we make sure that everybody understands
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  the relationship? And to a large degree, how
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  do we help some of these underrepresented populations
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  or just populations that have not had traditional
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  financial services access, how do we get them
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  to understand what they're getting access to?
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  And more importantly, how do we get them to trust
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  that that access is what we say it is or what
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  the companies say it is? So that's really fascinating.
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  With all of your international experiences and
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  certainly working with the fintechs and you know
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  working with with the women in Pakistan You know
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  you started to go down this road, but I'm curious
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  like from a personal perspective How have you
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  kind of seen that development? How is that? You
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  know for lack of a better description broaden
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  your horizons and you know, how has that changed
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  your perspective on? what you want to try and
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  accomplish in places like the UK or the US that
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  you can then transfer back to your home in Pakistan
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  or in other places? That's a very good question,
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  Joe. Honestly, I would first like to say is that
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  this whole journey of going from Pakistan, UK,
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  and now here, it's been quite intense. And me
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  being quite young, I'm not super experienced,
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  but I'm trying. And every time that I move across
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  these systems, it really makes me realize how
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  much I've accomplished and how much I need to
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  accomplish more. And sometimes it gets scary.
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  It gets intimidating sometimes being the only
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  international lawyer. or being the only young
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  brown girl there, it gets scary. But at the same
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  time, it really makes me realize how much more
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  I need to be doing to give back to my people
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  and people in the psych legal area. Moreover,
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  to answer your question, I really would love,
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  from the US legal market especially, to gain
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  some experience in the banking and tech world,
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  as I told you that interning with the company
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  that I'm working with right now, I think. That
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  is something I really want to focus on is going
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  forward is more towards the intersection of banking
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  and tech. I think that is something that I am
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  looking forward towards and that I'm looking
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  more towards working with. And honestly, especially
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  from the US legal market, I feel like There's
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  so much to do like there's so much like there's
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  so many opportunities and when you come here
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  you actually like it's a whole world you know
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  and I just got so excited and I just wanted to
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  talk and like you know meet people and just you
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  know seek advice just I just like realized that
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  there's a whole world out there for me to like
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  learn from and to grow and you know I Wouldn't
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  I I make mistakes? And I would want to learn
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  from them, especially from experienced people
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  like you, especially yours. Well, I think that's
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  something that I'm really looking forward to
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  take from the US legal system with me throughout
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  my whole journey is this is the advice from these
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  experienced lawyers who've worked to like different
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  countries, all like all around the world. I think
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  that is so fascinating. And that is something
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  that I really, really look forward to learning
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  more and more. Yeah. Well, it's I mean, Look,
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  you're, I think, I don't know if I mentioned
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  this before, but from my perspective, someone
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  like you, who's a young person, but from a country
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  and a geographic area of the world where there
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  are not a lot of strong female attorneys that
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  are interested in something like this, you know,
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  yes, you may be young, but Somebody has to do
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  it, right? Somebody has to start and usually
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  it's when you're young that you start and you
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  branch out and you kind of become a little bit
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  of a pioneer in this area, right? So I can imagine
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  it's difficult, but I appreciate you for doing
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  that and pushing through it. I know it's tough.
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  So, you know, the other thing that I keep kind
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  of coming back to in my mind is that, you know,
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  places like where you've studied in the US and
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  London, um the financial system is is so much
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  further down the line and so advanced that it's
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  i i've got to believe that you also get to see
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  not only what what may be not right now available
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  in places like pakistan but you also get to see
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  where maybe there's pieces of the us or the uk
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  system or other systems um that are interesting
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  but that just don't really work for what what
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  the ecosystem looks like in Pakistan. And so
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  there's going to be things that you can take
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  back to Pakistan with you, but there's going
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  to be a lot of lessons that you learn that are
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  not going to work. But because you know they're
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  not going to work, that helps you on your path,
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  I think, working with the institutions back home.
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  So that's really fascinating. How has the experience
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  been practicing between the US and UK and how
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  has that worked for you? I would like to sum
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  it up in three words. It's been intense. And
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  there is no sugar coating that Joe, but I also
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  feel like it has been. incredibly giving. Like,
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  I have been rewarded with this experience that
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  I feel like not a lot of people do get to experience
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  that. And, you know, constantly being in the
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  middle of these three systems, I feel like I've
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  learned a lot, especially in the legal area.
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  You know, pursuing both my limbs and my bachelor's
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  and then working in Pakistan, I feel like It's
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  been so overwhelming, but at the same time, I've
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  learned about different work ethics, different
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  ways of law that is being practiced in all these
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  three different systems. But I feel like at the
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  same time, I know that some people might think
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  that it's too much or it's unnecessary. or even
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  like a little bit extreme. But I genuinely believe
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  that staying on top of your work and pursuing
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  what you want is super essential in a fast evolving
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  field like banking law and auto tech law. And
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  I feel like a lot of mindset, I would like to
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  say that it comes from my mother. She's also
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  very hardworking like I am. And she also broke
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  barriers at a very young age. So I you know,
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  all of my passion and my dreams and all of my
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  reward to her. I also feel like a deep sense
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  of responsibility that comes with these kind
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  of, you know, rewards and experiences. I know
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  that I'm privileged to be in these spaces, but
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  I worked hard for it and also, you know, it really
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  allows me to ground myself. But also be super
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  excited for the future. I feel like I'm so happy
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  that I still get reached out by all these women
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  back in my home. And I always call them and I
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  always tell them, hey, this is possible. You
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  can do it if you want to. And you have to work
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  hard. It's not going to be easy. It's never easy.
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  But you know. It just makes me more and more
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  excited every day to work towards my dreams and
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  my goals. And I'm so blessed to be supported
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  by the legal community here as well, and you.
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  I think it's super nice to have people who believe
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  in you and who support you, especially when you're
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  young and you're starting off. It's harder, but...
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  it's nice to have that support and that love
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  around you. So yes, thank you for your question.
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  No, that's great. I mean, you know, from from
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  my perspective, I just in the few conversations
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  that we've had, you know, I've learned a lot
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  from you. And I think you have you have a really
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  unique situation in terms of your actual experience
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  on the ground working at a fintech in a foreign
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  country, whatever foreign country, right? But
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  with your actual experience working on real issues
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  with a fintech in a foreign country and then
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  adding in a legal component to that is... highly
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  unique. And I think I've told you this before.
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  It's very, very unique. Most of us in the legal
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  community that say we're fintech lawyers or digital
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  asset lawyers, most of us started out in law
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  and our practices grew around certain clients
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  or industries or what have you and or interests.
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  And, you know, for some of us, You know, we've
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  always been either at a regulatory agency or
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  in a law firm and not necessarily in a fintech.
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  And if it's been at a fintech, chances are it's
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  been on the legal side within the fintech and
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  not operations or strictly compliance or payments
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  or any of these other areas. And so to the extent
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  you have that that capability already, and then
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  you're adding in the legal component, it's a
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  little bit of a kind of a switcheroo for you,
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  but it's It's something that, again, it's very,
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  very unique. I commend you for all the work that
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  it takes. I know it's hard work, but you've gotten
• 17:09
  great tutelage, at least at Boston University.
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  I know that for sure. As you look ahead, what
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  kinds of challenges are you most excited about
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  continuing to explore? Is it the payments? Is
• 17:23
  it access? What is it for you? That's a great
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  question. I would say that as I look ahead, And
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  I know we're in this AI age right now. We're
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  slowly moving towards everything that's being
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  digitized. I'm excited to see how tech continues
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  to reshape the banking market, especially here
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  in the US. And not just the US, but also globally.
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  It is still very much, I believe, in a gray area
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  with many respects, especially around among policy,
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  risks, and also, I think, regulation. And there
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  is some kind of uncertainty, I believe. But that
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  is what makes it so interesting. And I look forward
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  to that. I look forward to see how things play
• 18:16
  out. Also, I'm eager to navigate the US market,
• 18:21
  the US banking market, especially the banking
• 18:23
  law market, if I'm being very specific. to see
• 18:28
  opportunities where I can also grow with the
• 18:31
  market and contribute towards real world banking
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  environments. And amazing mentors like you, Joe,
• 18:43
  and platforms like this have been really important
• 18:48
  in opening doors for me. And also, I'm just super
• 18:54
  excited to see where this takes me. And also,
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  This gray area, I feel like it's so interesting
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  to me that I sometimes question why so many other
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  people don't really want to invest time and their
• 19:07
  energy into this. I know everybody wants to go
• 19:09
  to M &A or other kinds of law, but for me, this
• 19:13
  is so interesting because I feel like in the
• 19:15
  next 10 years, everybody's going to be talking
• 19:17
  about this more and more. I think that's absolutely
• 19:23
  right. The sense that I sometimes get And I guess
• 19:27
  this is a little self -serving for us, but the
• 19:29
  sense that I get is that some people don't jump
• 19:33
  into areas like this in terms of digital assets
• 19:37
  or digitization of finance and fintech because
• 19:40
  it is a gray area. And when you have that, it's
• 19:45
  harder. I do a lot of M &A and corporate transactions.
• 19:53
  Some can be challenging, but you have very clear
• 19:57
  checklists most of the time. Most of the time,
• 19:59
  there's not big surprises. Most of the time,
• 20:03
  the statute tells you what needs to be in this
• 20:06
  agreement or this resolution. There's a roadmap
• 20:09
  for a lot of that. But a lot of what we've been
• 20:12
  working on, and especially what you've been doing
• 20:14
  on an international level, there is no real roadmap.
• 20:18
  You're working on it as you're driving down the
• 20:22
  road. So it's very fascinating. It's very interesting,
• 20:26
  but very challenging. So that kind of lends itself
• 20:30
  to a lot of folks kind of saying, oh, well, I
• 20:33
  really am interested in it. Maybe I'll just learn
• 20:35
  from Dua instead of trying to do exactly what
• 20:38
  she's doing. So last question, where can people
• 20:44
  connect with you? It's a great story. It's fascinating.
• 20:47
  I know you're going to be kind of here in the
• 20:49
  states and looking for opportunities to support
• 20:52
  others and learn more. So where can people find
• 20:54
  you? Great. I would say the best way to connect
• 20:57
  with me is on LinkedIn. My name is Dua Najam.
• 21:01
  It is spelled as D -U -A -A -N -A -J -A -M. And
• 21:06
  I also share my work and my personal blogs on
• 21:12
  my own website. that I just recently built, where
• 21:17
  I focus on writing stuff from cross -border banking
• 21:21
  stuff. Also, you can also reach me via my email.
• 21:26
  That's duanajam at hotmail .com, D -U -A -A -N
• 21:29
  -A -J -A -M. And yeah, I think the best way would
• 21:32
  be LinkedIn, but yeah. That would answer your
• 21:37
  question. Awesome. I really appreciate that.
• 21:39
  I appreciate you coming on Dua, talking about
• 21:42
  your story, talking about your background. I
• 21:45
  hope that we'll have you on again at some point
• 21:48
  in the future, and you'll have hopefully more
• 21:51
  to tell us, more advancement, whether it's here
• 21:53
  or abroad. But I really appreciate you. I appreciate
• 21:56
  your time today. For our audience, that's all
• 22:00
  for us today. Again, if you have any questions,
• 22:02
  reach out to me. We're your favorite Dwayne Morris
• 22:05
  lawyer. Please be sure to like and subscribe
• 22:07
  to the podcast wherever you do get your podcasts.
• 22:10
  I appreciate everyone listening in to us. Please
• 22:12
  stay tuned for new episodes coming out soon,
• 22:15
  as soon as we can produce them with more great
• 22:17
  guests. But then again, final thank you to our
• 22:20
  special guests today doing the job. So thank
• 22:23
  you so much. And we look forward to having you
• 22:26
  back. Thank you, Joe. Thank you so much.