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'Kinky Boots' Music and Stagecraft | The BSB Podcast · The BSB Podcast

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  Big hair, bigger heels, and even bigger heart.
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  On today's episode of the BSB Podcast,
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  we're continuing our discussion of Kinky Boots,
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  the musical that turned a shoe factory into a runway and reminded us
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  all to embrace ourselves no matter what.
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  From its true story roots to its Broadway success,
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  we're breaking down the music and stagecraft of this iconic show.
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  Spoiler warning, we are discussing the music and stagecraft
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  of this touring production. So if you haven't witnessed the creation
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  of the most gorgeous boots ever,
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  pause this video and come back once you've sashayed away from the show.
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  On the last episode, we covered the story and the themes of Kinky Boots,
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  but mostly it was about the themes.
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  The show is very ~ inclusive,
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  and then there's a level of inclusivity that is missing.
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  And so I think that was the biggest takeaway from the story,
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  is that while we're following Charlie trying to save his family's business,
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  ~ Charlie himself isn't always a great person.
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  And...
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  Maybe
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  the story is trying to talk about the morally gray areas of life.
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  That's cool. Maybe they're trying to tell us that not everybody who is cruel is bad.
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  That's a different discussion that I'm not willing to have right now.
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  ~ But ultimately, it's the story of Lola and Charlie saving a shoe factory
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  and their friendship that evolves from that and how ~ not everybody
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  who fits the status quo, not everybody fits the status quo and that's okay.
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  But now we're going to talk about the music.
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  And what's interesting about this show,
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  RJ, is that it really is a pop musical from the works of Cyndi Lauper,
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  but it's not a jukebox musical of Cyndi Lauper's songs.
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  So right off the bat, I'm thinking like,
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  is RJ gonna love this? Is RJ gonna hate this?
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  Does it not hit the jukebox, you know,
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  musical vibes? And so he's gonna give it a pass.
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  But right off the bat, what is going on in the music for you of Kinky Boots?
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  I mean, for sure, like pop, pop central.
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  I liked it more than I would like
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  a jukebox musical because I felt like the songs actually applied,
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  obviously applied to the plots.
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  ~
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  but overall not my favorite music.
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  Like it just, felt extreme,
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  much like a pop song. A lot of it felt extremely repetitive and longer than
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  it needed to be.
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  You know, this is a this is definitely to in my eyes,
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  even though it's pop It still had a very strong Broadway feel and I think part
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  of that is that it's a very Story heavy music if that makes sense,
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  like there's a lot of story going on like I could see this being a straight show
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  and I can see this being a musical but they took a lot of the dialogue that would
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  be necessary for a straight show and they put it to music and It's telling different
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  aspects of what's going on. But there's also and then again,
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  there's also some songs that are
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  not
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  telling stories. So I guess like it does have some pieces here.
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  ~ Does this feel appropriate to the story?
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  Because as we talked about in episode one,
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  there's a lot of themes going on in here.
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  And there's a lot of maybe some missteps with how they are talking about inclusivity
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  with the LGBTQ community. Does the music feel appropriate for that story?
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  It does give queer joy, I should say.
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  Some of the time, yes. I think ~ almost every number that Lola is in,
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  it feels very right. It feels very drag-esque,
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  which is typically over the top,
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  loud, even during quiet songs.
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  She has some power ballads, but she also has those ankle-breaking numbers.
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  ~
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  And then everything in between,
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  like, yeah, there's a lot of storytelling happening,
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  which is definitely what gives it the Broadway vibe.
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  But I'm just thinking, like even the end of act one,
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  I'm like, how many more times can we hear you say,
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  yeah.
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  Yeah
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  whole
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  I was like, we couldn't think of any lyrics.
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  We're just saying yeah. Like,
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  somebody want to tell me how many times they say yeah in that song because
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  If it was a drinking game, you would be smashed.
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  Correct.
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  And really when you're looking at that act one,
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  I think what's, what's most telling that like it feels Broadway right
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  at the beginning is that the theme of the,
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  the first song feels very much like the,
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  the, the entre act, you know, where it's kind of like the,
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  you're having the orchestra kind of play some music into the show.
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  And we're starting off real strong.
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  And then we have like one, two,
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  three songs that are like Broadway belt,
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  Broadway belt, Broadway belt, fast one to kind of shake it up.
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  And also we get to land of Lola and it's literally just like,
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  it's a drag show at that point.
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  The glitter comes out.
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  The streamers come down, the boots come out,
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  and Lola's strutting her stuff.
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  Lola's having the time of her life with her dancers.
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  And that was when I feel like there was the first bit of like the,
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  have two different feelings going on here.
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  We have that Broadway stuff, and then like we're specifically being like,
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  Lola's different. Lola's music's different.
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  You know what I mean?
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  Yeah, was like stepping in and out of a drag show for most of the time that
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  she was on stage. And of course,
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  because you literally are, right?
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  Like we meet her at a club or bar or whatever we're calling it.
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  ~ And then ultimately we're ending very similarly.
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  ~
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  put that everything in between.
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  I don't know. It's a bizarre...
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  Like you want to stay in the drag feel the whole time,
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  but you don't get to. And then
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  Yes.
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  you're almost relieved when you get to go back to that feel because
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  the in-between is like just okay.
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  I think that what is really striking about that wasn't even one of the songs,
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  but it's when Lola comes to the factory for that first day out of drag.
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  And it was almost so shocking for a moment.
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  I didn't know who it was at first.
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  I was like, why are they all staring?
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  And then I was like, ~ because it felt very much like the,
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  and Broadway Broadway and Lola gets to have her moment and we're doing it.
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  then, like when this happened,
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  I feel like every time after that,
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  every time Lola came up, the song was very upbeat and was very,
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  you know, there was a level of like sexiness to it and there a level
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  of energy to it. Like everybody say,
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  yeah, like there was just, that's more of like the spectacle.
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  Like it felt very like Lola's pieces were spectacle and everybody else
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  got to have like funny moments or like Broadway moments or Belty moments.
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  And then Lola was just like, and now we're back to being the spectacle,
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  you know?
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  Yeah, I mean, even just looking at the titles.
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  ~
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  many of the songs that Lola sings have to do with Lola,
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  right? Like there's
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  Yes.
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  central to Lola, who Lola is and or what Lola does or things of that nature.
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  Most of what Charlie is singing is literally his,
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  what he is literally doing, right?
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  So we have his... ~
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  So, soliloquy and
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  soliloquy
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  yes, that's what I meant. And
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  you
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  that immediately followed by like step one.
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  Um, like, okay.
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  So action, action.
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  Ensemble numbers, don't really count.
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  mean, they're their own thing.
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  ~
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  But again, like Act Two, the soul of a man.
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  it's very, it's, the two are very central to themselves aside from
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  the ensemble numbers. ~
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  Yeah, no, a thousand percent.
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  with, I mean,
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  sex is in the heel. Again, I would still say that that's really Lola's song,
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  but everyone else is just living in it.
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  would agree with that. It's an ensemble dance number.
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  It's not an ensemble singing number in my head.
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  Yeah, there's a lot of, and it was dance heavy
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  or movement heavy ~ for those songs that felt like they were lacking elsewhere.
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  Like I will say you either vocally,
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  it was either a spectacle or it was physically a spectacle.
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  And there
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  Yes.
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  was a lot of movement happening.
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  And when you're talking about the end of act one,
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  everybody say, yeah, it was, it was fun to watch.
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  Cause there's a lot of treadmills going on and people walking conveyor belts
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  and there's throwing boots and stuff like that.
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  And there was like flipping off the bars.
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  Like, I had that thing. was like,
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  man, there's a lot of moving in here.
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  I would have messed up at least twice.
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  If not every single time I was jumping from one to thing,
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  it was, it was so well uniformed,
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  but they're literally only saying,
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  yeah, like there's not much else going on in that song.
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  And I was like, okay.
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  It kind of reminded me of like how they turned Be Our Guest into a
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  tap number that was a big huge spectacle.
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  And then there's not much else going on in that song.
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  It's like that scene didn't need to be 10 extra minutes for a tap number,
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  but you just wanted it to be impressive to distract from the fact that maybe we're
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  just making up time here.
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  Yeah, and arguably the same thing.
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  Like the treadmill effect is very cool.
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  However, it's cool after like the first minute,
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  two minutes even, but that song felt like
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  it went on forever for no reason.
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  Like I don't need to see every variation of every person on a different treadmill,
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  which is honestly what I felt like I was seeing.
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  It was like, ~
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  There's Charlie, ~ now Lola, now Lauren,
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  now the entire ensemble, now the angels,
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  now back to Lola and Charlie. ~ Like,
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  Yes.
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  very, very cool way of doing it,
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  but I didn't need to see it for however long we saw it.
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  And just to give you an idea, listeners,
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  like this show was just under two hours,
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  maybe, like it was not a long show.
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  This felt clearly like they were trying to,
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  like there was not enough substance.
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  So they were just trying to add in things to make sure that it felt like
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  you were getting your money's worth for ~ Kinky Boots.
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  Like, like I, we were, I got home really quickly before my,
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  you know, my family wasn't even asleep.
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  And so it was interesting that I was like,
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  hmm, there's not a lot here. And what we got sometimes,
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  wasn't substantial.
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  Yeah, it didn't.
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  You, mean, like probably literally could have been cut in
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  easily. Easily. And like, even if you take up,
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  let's take the last song, which was one of my favorites.
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  I loved seeing all of the different designed boots.
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  I loved seeing, you know, the drag queens come out.
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  I love seeing everybody in their boots,
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  but there eventually there's a point where like,
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  okay, we don't need to see that person walk down the runway a fourth time.
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  We don't need to see them strut a different way and turn to a different side.
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  Like eventually I was like, okay,
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  and we can, let's wrap this up.
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  Let's go, let's go home. What are we doing here?
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  Because again, it became very repetitive in those moments of
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  Like,
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  again, you're just filling time because you didn't have enough story to be here.
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  Yeah, I mean, some of the songs,
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  mean, not all the songs are genuinely,
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  generally, why is it so hard to speak right now?
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  ~ Like three,
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  four minutes.
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  on let's say like cast recording wise.
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  And much like any other show, like once you're seeing it live,
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  you're adding a good minute, minute and a half,
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  maybe more.
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  of just this like, again,
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  the same thing over and over again,
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  or, you know, the dance interlude or whatever it is.
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  ~ Which sometimes it works in this case.
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  It probably would have been fine.
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  We would have gotten a point without it,
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  but.
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  Of all the songs though, I have to say that I think that the ones I was drawn
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  to the most were any of the ones that Lola sang.
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  I think that her voice and
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  her delivery was probably the most engaging for me,
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  with the exception of Lauren's song that she's singing about Charlie,
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  The History of Wrong Guys, think it is,
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  where that one was hilarious.
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  because of the physical comedy of it,
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  as well as her singing that was really good.
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  But truly, Lauren and Lola were the showstoppers singing-wise of the show.
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  And not that Charlie wasn't good.
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  There was a few months I was like,
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  damn, he can hit that note. I could see Brendan Urie in it,
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  because I know Brendan Urie had played this role at one time before.
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  ~ And so I could see a few of those.
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  But really, it was Lola and Lauren that really musically,
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  I was like, this is who the show should be focusing on.
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  Yeah, and to be fair, yes.
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  mean, Charlie had a very good voice.
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  think the songs are not really written for him.
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  Like in regards to drawing your attention to him in the show,
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  no matter who's delivering it.
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  ~ Because mostly he has ballads,
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  or he's just like kind of doing lines during the ensemble numbers,
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  none of which are like particularly
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  I don't know,
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  stunning.
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  none of it is show stopping or like you're like,
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  wow. ~ I could be completely forgetting a moment where I was like,
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  wow, but. ~
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  think during the Soul
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  of a Man, he hits a note at the end that was pretty impressive,
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  but that's the only thing that's really standing out to me.
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  Yes, that song, and it was so interesting.
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  I remember thinking the way that he was portraying it,
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  I was like, well, he's giving a full body experience with the song.
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  Like he's really feeling it.
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  It almost to me felt a tad much.
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  Just because, and I think this relates back to the fact that I at that point
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  was so done with the character that I was like,
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  I don't care what you have to say.
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  ~ I was like,
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  this is not your pity party. You're being a complete jerk.
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  I feel no sympathy for you.
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  Maybe that's just me. But because that song is really,
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  I mean, it's all about really his continued loss for an identity.
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  And I feel like that song is supposed to make us feel for him.
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  it just, had, that effect was not there for me at all.
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  like
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  Yes, agreed.
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  justifying poor behavior with a half ass apology because things aren't going your
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  way. Doesn't cut it. ~
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  So it just, I think I was sitting through it like,
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  yes, vocally actually was quite a performance,
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  but I didn't feel that way about it because of the character.
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  I also agree, because I think that that was the moment where they wanted
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  us to emotionally connect with him.
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  And I remember sitting next to your sister and just being like the kind
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  of looking around. I'm like, anybody crying?
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  And I didn't see anybody crying.
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  I granted, I'm usually an emoter and I wasn't crying,
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  but I was looking around like nobody seems oddly specific.
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  Your sister was very enthused by the note that he hit.
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  Like she was very enthused about the note.
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  But there was like no emotional catharsis that I,
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  or anybody else around us seemed to be getting from that point.
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  And that's when I said, I feel like that's when the story failed,
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  Charlie, because like, if that's the emotional piece,
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  I almost wanted something like that from Lola.
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  give me the, give me the song.
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  And granted, guess we kind of get that with Hold Me In Your Heart,
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  but it didn't give me the catharsis again that I wanted.
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  because you're kind of figuring out that maybe her father's there,
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  but there's not a connection, there's not a redemption arc there.
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  ~ I didn't feel like the oomph that I was looking for from the soul of the man,
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  is what they really, that was the driving,
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  that was the Rachel Berry moment,
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  you know what I mean? That people were trying to aim for and it wasn't there.
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  Yeah, and I mean, I'll backtrack a little bit.
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  Act one, my favorite song of this show,
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  which was my favorite song, of course,
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  I'm biased because I sang it. ~ Not my father's son,
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  which this show though is known for this duet,
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  technically. ~
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  Probably because it's relatable.
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  Probably, I think most queer individuals could feel some type
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  of connection ~ because of the dynamics that typically come,
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  especially at a young age, whether you've come out or you're
• 17:41
  in hiding or whatever that looks like.
• 17:43
  Even not queer people, just the expectations of your family,
• 17:48
  especially your parents on you as an individual.
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  and trying to fill that, trying to pursue that while still be remaining true
• 17:59
  to yourself. ~ incredibly hard to do.
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  ~
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  Though I will say, I don't think I cried.
• 18:08
  I thought I was gonna cry during that song and I didn't.
• 18:12
  I felt it, but I wasn't actively crying.
• 18:19
  I I also wanted to cry during that song.
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  I felt like, okay, this is the moment,
• 18:22
  Brian, you should be crying. And I felt nothing because it was a good performance.
• 18:28
  again, I feel it. I wanted that to be earned a little bit more.
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  And I think what's interesting is that,
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  again, you feel for, well,
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  in this song, they refer to him as Simon,
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  know, that's Lola's ~ out of drag name.
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  They refer to him as Simon. And so I was like,
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  the piece was there, but I didn't cry.
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  I was like, this is a song I should be crying at.
• 18:53
  And something along the way, just missed that.
• 18:56
  I missed that somewhere. It's still really good song,
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  though.
• 18:58
  Yeah, that also that dynamic. I don't know,
• 19:02
  it just it really did throw me between that and.
• 19:05
  The boxing. I was like,
• 19:10
  this is wow, I'm not sure that the show was what I thought it was going to be.
• 19:18
  Speaking
• 19:18
  of things that maybe we didn't think were going to be a certain way,
• 19:21
  we saw two shows back to back and I am super excited to talk about
• 19:25
  the set of Phantom of the Opera when we get to there.
• 19:28
  But the set here was interesting comparatively because there's not necessarily
• 19:35
  a lot going on. We have a center thing in the middle.
• 19:38
  We have like a center platform that's rotated to be different walls
• 19:41
  and different entrances. And then there's the there's the staircases that
• 19:45
  go up to it to be the office on top.
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  ~ but other than that, there's not a lot going on.
• 19:51
  Does it do it? Let me ask you this.
• 19:53
  Does the, set do enough to transport you to the world of Kinky Boots?
• 20:00
  I think it does okay. Obviously,
• 20:05
  like, we're not covering a lot of ground.
• 20:07
  Most of the show does take place in the factory,
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  and I think it does well with the factory setting,
• 20:14
  but everything else, I feel like leaves something to be a bit desired.
• 20:19
  Again,
• 20:22
  when we were decompressing in my car on the way home,
• 20:25
  my mom literally said,
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  I do not understand
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  why they kept turning that thing around.
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  Like it was, didn't do anything.
• 20:34
  Like it didn't change. didn't make there.
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  was such a slight maneuver and nothing else changed that you were like,
• 20:44
  why honestly, why bother? Like it didn't,
• 20:47
  it wasn't different enough aside from like that momentary bathroom scene.
• 20:52
  I was like, you literally just could have kept everything the way it was.
• 20:56
  And it wouldn't have, it wouldn't have made any difference to me.
• 21:01
  I agree. I was just like, it felt unnecessary.
• 21:04
  It felt like you were giving people something to do.
• 21:06
  You were trying to be like, ah,
• 21:08
  look at visually something's happening.
• 21:09
  But in my head, was like, nothing's really happening.
• 21:11
  Like they threw up some streamers at one point.
• 21:13
  They did become the bathroom. At one point it kind of became a corner
• 21:17
  of the boxing ring. I think it turned into the stage at the end too.
• 21:21
  But I was like, other than the stage at the end,
• 21:23
  there wasn't really much visually going on.
• 21:26
  It felt very stagnant.
• 21:28
  Or maybe they were giving you the perception of movement while it
• 21:31
  was all very stagnant.
• 21:32
  Yeah. And I think ultimately maybe that the idea was that they're letting
• 21:38
  us know that we're moving. Right.
• 21:41
  It wasn't necessarily to build us the place that we were moving to.
• 21:45
  It was just to literally show us that we were moving so that
• 21:50
  we weren't confused when all of a sudden there's a drag show in the middle
• 21:54
  of the warehouse. So we knew that there was some type
• 22:00
  of shift happening.
• 22:02
  but even though we weren't going anywhere.
• 22:05
  Like a page turning almost. I'm like,
• 22:06
  here, we're spinning the page,
• 22:07
  we're turning the page, we're onto the next chapter.
• 22:10
  I can see that.
• 22:13
  Yeah, because I mean, and they did have a couple scrims like in regards
• 22:18
  to the front of the building, the sign.
• 22:21
  ~ And then,
• 22:24
  arguably the biggest change does come in the finale with the stage
• 22:29
  and the curtain and stuff. ~ But even then,
• 22:32
  you're just utilizing the pieces that you have.
• 22:36
  ~
• 22:38
  because so much of their set literally just is.
• 22:41
  I mean, you have those conveyor belts and stuff,
• 22:43
  the treadmills for the factory.
• 22:46
  There's a lot of factory pieces.
• 22:48
  So I just imagine they figured,
• 22:52
  well, that's 90 % of the show.
• 22:55
  So that's what we're going to spend our budget on.
• 22:58
  when you're talking about budget too,
• 22:59
  I think that part of that has to be counting for the costumes.
• 23:02
  While most of the people had very bland,
• 23:05
  regular people clothing, they put a lot of money into not only Lola's costumes,
• 23:11
  but those boots. There's so many boots at the end,
• 23:14
  they're all individualistic, beautiful,
• 23:16
  thigh high, those cost lots of money.
• 23:20
  I think that was the most impressive when it came to the costumes.
• 23:24
  I think that's where the show shines a lot too,
• 23:25
  is that Lola and her
• 23:28
  Her
• 23:28
  world is vibrant and beautiful and literally
• 23:34
  the most spectacular boots you're probably ever gonna have in your life.
• 23:37
  And so that is, it's interesting when you have the contrast of like Charlie's world,
• 23:41
  which is very like monochromatic and like business suits and like even Lola when
• 23:48
  she's out of drag and she's, know,
• 23:50
  portraying herself as Simon is wearing like.
• 23:54
  colorful cardigans or like colorful suits.
• 23:56
  like, so I think that's interesting.
• 23:57
  Like where like you could tell that there was some significant money
• 24:00
  put into the costuming of ~ Lola and her costumes and her boots and
• 24:06
  the boots that are everybody wears at the end.
• 24:10
  Yeah, I mean, of course it's the statement piece and notoriously,
• 24:15
  ~ drag queens are known for their fits,
• 24:19
  right? They're known for their shoes,
• 24:21
  their fits, their hair or makeup.
• 24:23
  That is the entire, that is the art of drag.
• 24:28
  with our bread and butter.
• 24:29
  And so they had to ensure that
• 24:35
  the representation matched. And I will say,
• 24:38
  I do feel like that was.
• 24:40
  one part that did seem to be true.
• 24:42
  The angels costumes felt very authentic,
• 24:48
  very much like something I have seen at a drag show.
• 24:53
  So I did appreciate that. It didn't feel like too little or too much.
• 24:58
  I'm not sure there is such a thing as too much in the drag world,
• 25:02
  but
• 25:04
  Yeah, definitely a big budget point because of all the glitz and the glam and yeah,
• 25:10
  I mean, how many pairs of boots were on that stage?
• 25:13
  ~ also shout out
• 25:15
  least time.
• 25:17
  those. I have never worn thigh high boots.
• 25:21
  I have maybe worn boots that were basically up to my knee or maybe like just at,
• 25:26
  and those are hard enough. ~
• 25:29
  you
• 25:32
  And obviously like every single pair of boots is made for the individual.
• 25:36
  So they're all very cozy or as cozy as you can be in platform boots.
• 25:40
  ~ but yeah, just quick shout out to the customers,
• 25:45
  to the creators of those, because it's,
• 25:48
  that's no easy feat.
• 25:51
  No pun intended. Yeah, no,
• 25:55
  I would never be able to dance in those.
• 25:57
  And I love that. I don't know if it was intentional or if it was a little
• 26:00
  bit of just he was still getting used to the boots,
• 26:02
  but the actor who played Charlie definitely seemed like he was stumbling
• 26:05
  a few times. And granted, that could have been the choice that they made because
• 26:07
  Charlie was also not used to the boots.
• 26:09
  But like, that would be me a thousand percent in any kind of heel like that trying
• 26:14
  to balance like less than all for handling it because.
• 26:18
  I'm clumsy enough as it is without being in high heels.
• 26:23
  That being
• 26:23
  you
• 26:24
  said, does this show have good pacing?
• 26:27
  Does this show lag?
• 26:30
  I feel like I want to say yeah.
• 26:32
  I want to say there was a part in Act 2 where I was a little bit bored.
• 26:34
  I was like, I don't know where we're going.
• 26:36
  It got a little slow. I felt a little bit like we were meandering through
• 26:41
  the story by that point. And so I think that in Act 2,
• 26:44
  it could have been a little shorter,
• 26:45
  which is saying that's saying a lot because it was already short enough.
• 26:49
  But like
• 26:50
  Do you think that it was a good use of its time or do you feel like there
• 26:54
  was some parts that just did not hold up?
• 26:56
  Yeah, I mean, honestly, for me,
• 26:58
  Act One was incredibly slow. Act Two
• 27:01
  Okay.
• 27:01
  was faster, but it still could have,
• 27:03
  there were songs, again, that like,
• 27:05
  they just didn't need to be as long as they were.
• 27:08
  ~ And like, how long of a scene did we really need to tell us that Charlie
• 27:14
  was being a jerk? ~ the same lines continuously felt like,
• 27:21
  we were getting the same messaging over and over and over.
• 27:24
  And so was like, okay,
• 27:25
  Are we going to go down the line of the entire ensemble at this point?
• 27:29
  ~ So yeah,
• 27:33
  pacing wasn't overall,
• 27:37
  it just, wasn't great.
• 27:40
  So that being said, who is Kinky Boots for?
• 27:43
  Because obviously this felt like it was aiming for queer people,
• 27:47
  but it was more so for the old people of the crowd who wanted to feel progressive.
• 27:55
  Yes, I would say that's what it's aimed towards.
• 27:58
  I would say it's a feel-good musical.
• 28:00
  or at least it's created to make people feel good.
• 28:04
  So, and what I mean by that is exactly the people who feel like they...
• 28:13
  are allies?
• 28:16
  they lack education or like they just,
• 28:21
  it's kind of like saying like,
• 28:22
  I have a gay friend.
• 28:24
  It felt very performative.
• 28:26
  Yeah. and so I don't honestly,
• 28:30
  I thought about this afterwards because I was like,
• 28:34
  who, is it for? It doesn't feel like it's for queer people because it's so honestly,
• 28:38
  I mean, I don't get triggered by much of anything,
• 28:41
  but I literally, as some of those words were coming at us,
• 28:44
  I was like, I could see how many people would be upset,
• 28:48
  ~ with the terminology that's being used in
• 28:53
  because it wasn't being used in an intentionally negative way playfully,
• 28:59
  it was being used in a this is everyday language.
• 29:04
  It was used in a very slurry way too.
• 29:06
  Yeah.
• 29:12
  I mean this is
• 29:12
  At the
• 29:12
  same time, it is a musical that I walked away and I was like,
• 29:15
  more people need to see this.
• 29:17
  Yes.
• 29:18
  For the fact that we still are in a society that is so deeply struggling
• 29:24
  to accept people for who they are.
• 29:27
  And so at the end of the day, even if we're taking the queerness out of it,
• 29:31
  which obviously you can't really with this musical,
• 29:33
  but the holistic messaging of accepting a person.
• 29:42
  doesn't mean that you need to understand the person.
• 29:46
  It just means accept them for a human being,
• 29:53
  because that's exactly what they are.
• 29:54
  So that messaging, feel like this shows for the world.
• 29:59
  ~
• 30:04
  But if you've already thought beyond that,
• 30:06
  and if that's already the way that you operate,
• 30:08
  I'm not sure that this show will make you feel warm and fuzzy like
• 30:14
  it will for people who don't operate that way.
• 30:17
  I agree with you, I do believe that there's a message in here that
• 30:20
  is really good and more people should listen to.
• 30:23
  And I will say that as I watched the show,
• 30:26
  I wasn't uncomfortable for myself.
• 30:27
  I wasn't comfortable for people in my life who I care about,
• 30:31
  who are other forms of queer, that that felt more of an attack than
• 30:36
  it was towards me. You know what I mean?
• 30:38
  Like I feel like that was, I...
• 30:42
  Plus my skin is thick for myself.
• 30:44
  Like you're gonna call me a slur like I'm probably gonna laugh it off but
• 30:50
  I was very inherently aware that
• 30:55
  the terminology that was being used was not a slur against me,
• 30:57
  it was a slur against other people in my life.
• 30:59
  It was a slur against people who maybe came to the show expecting queerness
• 31:03
  and were instead feeling, I don't even want to use the word triggered because that
• 31:08
  feels like that's such a taboo word,
• 31:10
  but they were being, I think it would be very jarring to hear that if
• 31:14
  you were not expecting it.
• 31:16
  as somebody who maybe does drag and who was,
• 31:19
  you know, like heard that from a family member from somebody who was on their own,
• 31:22
  you know, trans journey and then are also having a story that is kind
• 31:26
  of reflecting it, even though it wasn't like,
• 31:28
  feel like there was, it was a story for that.
• 31:30
  Like I felt uncomfortable for other people and not for myself.
• 31:34
  And I feel like that was the part where I almost had a hard time getting comfortable
• 31:37
  with the show. And like, felt myself sitting very straight during it because
• 31:40
  I was like, I don't feel like I should be laughing.
• 31:44
  because this is something that in today's society we're not,
• 31:47
  we shouldn't be laughing at, but it felt like a butt of the joke.
• 31:51
  And so I feel like that's where I was like,
• 31:53
  this was not a show for my kind of queer people,
• 31:55
  but there's obviously, this is a show for people who want to say that they support
• 32:01
  queerness.
• 32:04
  Yes.
• 32:06
  And that sounds mean. I feel bad saying that.
• 32:09
  And that's not to say against the people who are in the show who have
• 32:12
  put their blood and sweat and tears into it.
• 32:14
  But this felt like your Aunt Barb is going to a show and then being like,
• 32:21
  guess what I saw when you see her at Christmas and feeling good about herself
• 32:25
  because she saw it.
• 32:28
  Well, it's ironic because...
• 32:32
  our audience was relatively interactive
• 32:37
  and every moment that something occurred where someone was like hooting
• 32:43
  and hollering or whatever, I was like,
• 32:45
  I've attended enough drag shows and performed in enough drag shows where I was like,
• 32:51
  ~ like that's the group of straight cis women that come
• 32:58
  to drag shows.
• 33:02
  because they feel like that's their space,
• 33:06
  like they own that space. ~
• 33:10
  and they feel the need to be seen and heard.
• 33:14
  so,
• 33:14
  Yes.
• 33:15
  and there was...
• 33:18
  I don't know, a couple of different women throughout our show that kind
• 33:23
  of like shouted out in the
• 33:26
  Yes.
• 33:26
  show, which like some people do.
• 33:28
  Some shows call for it. I'm not sure that this one did.
• 33:31
  It never really broke. We never had that break in the wall to call for that.
• 33:38
  and
• 33:42
  yet somehow someone still felt the need to make it about them.
• 33:48
  Yes, again going back to
• 33:50
  out.
• 33:50
  the performative piece of it.
• 33:52
  Yes. Yeah. Like, well, I go, I go to drag shows,
• 33:56
  you know, or the, the, the bachelorette party that goes to gay clubs.
• 34:01
  You know what I mean? Like it's just like,
• 34:04
  great. We're so glad, like we're more than happy to share this space.
• 34:08
  However, like, please know who's like,
• 34:12
  who's this space is built for.
• 34:14
  And so that it felt a little bit tone deaf,
• 34:17
  much like the real thing. ~
• 34:21
  Correct.
• 34:22
  audience-wise, because that's also where the uncomfortable laughter came in
• 34:26
  a lot of the times, where like I might have been sitting there cringing,
• 34:31
  the person next to me might have been like chuckling awkwardly because it was,
• 34:37
  they knew that it wasn't right,
• 34:39
  but they didn't know why.
• 34:42
  And so I think for that reason,
• 34:44
  I don't know if I'd see Kinky Boots again.
• 34:45
  Unless there was a major rewrite by somebody,
• 34:49
  I think that they need to almost have a drag queen,
• 34:53
  more queer people on the writing team to really rework this.
• 34:56
  I don't think I could sit through that again and feel comfortable.
• 34:59
  And I feel like don't want to subject myself to having to sit through that show
• 35:01
  feeling absolutely just like the message was lost and I don't want to
• 35:06
  be the person that explained that to somebody.
• 35:07
  Yeah, like I'll just go to a drag show,
• 35:10
  Yes.
• 35:11
  you know, to support queer people and drag queens and performers.
• 35:15
  ~ Again, that's not a slight against this cast or crew or whatever.
• 35:22
  It's just the writing and the script feels antiquated and...
• 35:29
  But I mean, that is sometimes just what it is.
• 35:34
  And on that note, are running out of time.
• 35:36
  However, if you plan on seeing this show when it comes to sitting near you,
• 35:39
  let us know your thoughts. Do you agree?
• 35:41
  Do you disagree? Is this a show for queer people?
• 35:43
  Is this a show for people who want to support queer people?
• 35:46
  Let us know in the comments. We'd love to hear from you.
• 35:48
  But with that, our discussion is over.
• 35:51
  So thanks again for joining us here in our box seats.
• 35:52
  Until next curtain call.