Latest / The Post-Separation Abuse Podcast / 82. When programs, certificates and parenting orders don't equal safety

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82. When programs, certificates and parenting orders don't equal safety · The Post-Separation Abuse Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm going to talk about something that frustrates protective parents everywhere.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: And something that frustrates me deeply.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: The idea that once a relationship ends, the abuse ends.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: The idea that once there are final orders, everything is somehow magically resolved.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: That once your ex has completed a behavior change program or a parenting course, especially those ones done online with zero real accountability, that somehow your kids are now magically safe.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you've ever been told, quote, he's just upset and wants to see the kids, or you guys are just fighting because you're in the court system.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Or now that you're separated, there really shouldn't be any more conflict.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is for you.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: The truth and the evidence tells us a very different story.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And until the system is willing to face that truth, until we as a community face and accept that truth, protective parents everywhere will continue to shoulder the entire burden of keeping their kids safe.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Danielle Black, and you're listening to the Post Separation Abuse Podcast.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start with the thing that gets waved around in court and mediation rooms all the time The Certificate.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's done a men's behavior change programme.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: She's completed circle of security.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: He's done Triple P.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, he must be safe now, right?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So many professionals and abusers cling to these certificates like they're gold.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the reality.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Completion does not equal safe.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Completion does not equal long term behavior change.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Completion is not transformation.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Behavior change programs have mixed and inconsistent evidence when it comes to long term change, especially around coercive control, which is a pattern of behaviour, not an anger issue.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: The most comprehensive research, including ANROS systematic reviews and international meta-analysis, shows that while some men's behaviour change programs demonstrate short-term reductions in physical violence, the evidence for sustained change in coercive control patterns is weak at best.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And here's what the research tells us about why.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Coercive control is fundamentally about power and entitlement.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's relational.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's about what happens when someone doesn't get their own way.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: A program can teach skills, but it can't force someone to relinquish their belief that they're entitled to control another person.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Parenting courses like tuning into kids or circle of security are evidence-based tools for willing, reflective parents.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're great programs when used as designed.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: But the research doesn't support the idea that they turn a coercively controlling parent into a safe one.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what they were designed for.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: They were created for parents who want to improve their attunement and responsiveness, not for parents who use children as tools for control.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the problem.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: The family law system pretends that doing a course is proof.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I know that you know better.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Protective parents know better.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: You've lived the reality like me.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: You've seen someone behave beautifully in front of professionals and still create a whole heap of fucking chaos and fear behind closed doors.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: A certificate doesn't capture that reality.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: A certificate doesn't and can never measure coercive control.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And a certificate doesn't tell you whether or not your child feels safe or ever will.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's talk about online courses.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: The ones done completely virtually, with zero in-person contact, zero real world group interaction, zero live facilitator oversight.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Click, click, reflection question, chat GPT assistance, certificate, done.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: These are being used as evidence by perpetrators who want to maintain that they've quote unquote changed.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that should terrify everyone.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: There is no strong evidence that self-paced online programs change the behavior of someone with deeply entrenched coercive control patterns.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because coercive control is relational.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: It shows up when the perpetrator doesn't get their way, and an online module cannot test for that, a facilitator can't see it, and a group can't challenge it.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: The evidence that we do have on behaviour change programs shows that accountability, challenges from a group, and consistent monitoring are the active ingredients, not just information delivery.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Self-paced online modules might teach concepts, but they can't create the relational accountability that's necessary for genuine change in controlling behavior.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And many protective parents know this, even if just intuitively.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: The reason that so many of you ask for these programs in your proposals isn't because you're expecting a miracle or change.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's because the requirement of getting that person to complete the course slows down the progression of contact with your kids.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: It buys time, it forces the system to pause.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, it's one of the few tools that protective parents often have to hold the line on safety.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is not a protective parent being manipulative.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite literally them being protective.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're working in a system that often mistakes paperwork for protection.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's talk about final orders, the holy grail of the family law system.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Lawyers want finality, judges want finality, registrars want finality.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: The entire system is built around closure, not accountability.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: What finality really means for many professionals is please don't come back.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Fuck off, don't darken our doorstep again.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: The ALRC Family Law Review explicitly noted that the system prioritises final resolution, often at the expense of ongoing safety.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: The review found that the system's focus on achieving final orders can overlook the reality that family violence dynamics don't resolve on a court timetable.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So what happens?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: The court puts in a tick box safeguard, he'll do a program.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: After six months, unsupervised time.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: After twelve months, overnight time.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: These are comfort clauses to make professionals feel like they've, quote, addressed risk.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: But they don't track actual change.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: They don't require actual evidence.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: They rely on a calendar, not behaviour.
• 7:18
  unknown: Dr.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Julie Blake's research at the University of Queensland demonstrates exactly why this is so dangerous.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Her work shows us that coercive control doesn't just end because a court makes orders.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, her research shows that coercive control often adapts and continues post-separation, with children bearing the psychological and physiological burden through chronic stress, chronic stress that impacts their development and long-term mental health.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is why so many protective parents now propose no progression in their final orders.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: They stop it at whatever level it's currently at, or whatever level they feel is safe for their kids and likely to be accepted by the court.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not because they're trying to be difficult.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's because the alternative is an automatic escalation with zero oversight, and that's how kids are being harmed.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Research by Professor Jennifer McIntosh and others shows clearly.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Children do not recover from trauma or family violence according to a timeline.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Their safety and attachment needs must guide the progression of time, not dates on a court order.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: ANROS research shows that coercive control often continues or escalates post-separation, especially when the oversight decreases.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Their 2024-25 evidence briefs specifically note that risk doesn't decrease just because legal proceedings have concluded.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: And Julie Blake's research out of the University of Queensland demonstrates that coercive control doesn't just harm the protective parent.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: It causes long-term physiological stress changes in children, increasing the risk of mental illness later in life.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So let's be blunt.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: If a court orders increased contact simply because a date has arrived without checking whether the child feels safe or whether they are actually safe, or whether the coercive control has stopped, that is not child-centered decision making.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's administrative efficiency disguised as family law.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Disguised as quote, the best interests of children.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Something that absolutely no one prepares you for is that getting final orders doesn't mean that the control stops.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that everything suddenly becomes easy.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean you're done.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: A number of my coaching clients have final orders.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: They're not in active litigation, they're not preparing for court.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you might be curious as to why they're still working with me.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's because the control hasn't stopped.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because they know that they might need to vary the orders one day.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: When the kids are older, when the circumstances have changed, when the safety requires it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're simply better and more regulated and more effective parents when they have ongoing strategic support.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because here's what final orders won't solve.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: They won't make your ex pay their share of school uniforms.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: They won't make them contribute to extracurricular activities.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: They won't make your co-parent facilitate phone contact when the children are with them.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: They won't make them turn up on time for changeovers.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: They won't make your former partner stop using the kids to gather information about you, stop undermining your parenting authority, or stop making unilateral decisions and informing you after the fact.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going to go back to court because he won't pay fifty bucks for school shoes?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because he quote forgot to facilitate a phone call between you and your child?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because he told the kids that they don't have to follow your rules?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Of course not.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to develop new skills, radical acceptance, strategic boundaries, nervous system regulation.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: You learn to conserve your energy and other resources for what actually matters.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: You learn to let go of what you can't control.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you share kids with a controlling person, these tools, capacity building, regulation, strategic thinking, they aren't just for the early stages of separation or while you're navigating the court system.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: They really do need to become part of your toolkit until your kids are adults.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, maybe even beyond that point, if you're going to be attending joint events, graduations, weddings, grandkids.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: The reactivity just does not go away on its own.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Many of us know that one person in our circle who, decades after separation, divorce, kids all grown up, they still hate their ex with a passion, and will tell you all about it with little to no prompting.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that that person doesn't have a right to feel the way that they do.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: The injustice that they have experienced is very real.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: The lack of accountability for their former partner is real.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the question.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Who are they really hurting by hanging on to all that?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Who's carrying the physiological burden of that chronic stress?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Who's modelling that bitterness to their adult kids and grandchildren?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: The person who wronged them isn't losing any sleep over it, I can guarantee.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why capacity work is not optional on this journey.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is why regulation isn't a luxury.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is why strategic thinking and radical acceptance aren't just quote nice to have.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: They're actually survival skills for the long haul.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: One of the deepest problems of all is that we're never truly going to know how effective behaviour change programs are, while the family law system stays emotionally allergic to the reality that family violence continues long after separation.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: People who work in this system often get uncomfortable when you talk about post-separation abuse, which is really fucking wild because that's when abuse is often at its peak.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And again, as I've said before, that's why this podcast is called the Post Separation Abuse Podcast.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: What happens every day is a protective parent reporting ongoing cursive control.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And she's often painted as exaggerating.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: A father says, quote, I'm just upset.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to see my kids.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And he doesn't have to look far to be validated.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Professionals see conflict and assume it's mutual.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: When in reality it's one-sided, invisible abuse.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Coercive control.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: He repartners and behaves well initially.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: The new partner says, he's lovely, she must be lying.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: What a bitch.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: No one checks with the former partner who holds the actual data on the risk and behaviour.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: These gaps make it almost impossible to assess whether behavior is genuinely changed.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're not measuring the right things.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: We're not asking the right people.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: The community and the system keeps pretending that coercive control is a relationship problem instead of a parenting problem.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Until that changes, protective parents are the primary safeguard.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're the person keeping your child safe.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Not the parenting programs, not the behaviour change programs, not the certificates, and certainly not the final parenting orders.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what you're absolutely allowed to ask for in proposals, negotiations, all of that.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Clarity on what program version is actually done.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Online, in person, self-paced, evidence, and not attendance.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Has there been any independent verification of behavioural change?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: What can sometimes be really powerful is when the problematic behavior continues after doing said program.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: That makes it even more concerning.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's had the information, the education, the tools, and still there's been no significant change.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Red flag.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: There needs to be safety contingent progressions, not calendar based progressions.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Child-led evidence, not system led assumptions.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And a recognition of coercive control, not a relabeling of things as quote, conflict.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're in active litigation or living with final orders, you're allowed to ask for support.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're allowed to invest in your capacity.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're allowed to work with a coach who understands what you're navigating.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because this work, protecting your kids, regulating your nervous system, being strategic instead of reactive, this is marathon work.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a sprint.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of support, I want to tell you about something that I've never done before.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: I've never participated in Black Friday before.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Danielle Black Coaching is not a discount brand.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: But here's what I realized.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: The blueprint is a life-changing resource and I want more people to have access to it.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's why from now until midnight, December 12, I'm running the biggest promotion that I've ever offered.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: $300 off the blueprint.
• 16:25
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• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Automatically applied at checkout, no annoying codes to remember, no hoops to jump through.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Plus complementary access to AI Daniel.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: A digital version of me, trained on my evidence-based coaching frameworks, there to support you 24 7 between one-on-one sessions and modules.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Need to think through a decision at 2 AM when Trudy and I are fast asleep?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: AI Daniel is there.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Need help refining a co-parenting message before you hit send?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: AI Daniel can help.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Want to apply the research in real time?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: That is exactly what AI Danielle is designed for.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be real with each other here.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a course creator, I'm a coach.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So why did I create the blueprint, you might be wondering?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because I wanted more people to benefit from my expertise in a way that was more accessible than one-on-one coaching.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the blueprint really does have it all.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Another post-separation parenting course is not needed when you have the blueprint.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I'm ever going to have to create another online course ever, because this one is just so comprehensive.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, whenever I think up new things, I just end up sticking it in the blueprint.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: My clients are regularly telling me how amazing the blueprint is, followed by, quote, my only complaint is that you didn't make it sooner.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Apologies to all of those people that have shared that with me.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what this Black Friday promotion is all about.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Making the decision easier for people who have been thinking about it.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Making this life-changing resource accessible to more protective parents who need it.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to take a moment to thank and congratulate the parents who have already made the choice to access the blueprint.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And they'll have the added bonus of AI Danielle access at no additional cost until May 2026.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know only too well that it can feel like such a huge leap of faith to spend money on something that can feel so intangible.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And the blueprint and also one-on-one coaching, I think, fits into that.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like walking into Harvey Norman and buying an air fry.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I do get it.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Even at$300 off, making the price$697, I get that it's still a big commitment.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I do honour that.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I honour the decision to follow through.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of separated parents want to be protective.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of parents really do want to protect their kids.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: But in my experience, many are also experiencing decision fatigue.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Many are traumatized.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And what they often want is for someone else to make the decisions.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone else.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: They want someone to take the reins.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: They also want someone to take the risk.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I get it.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I get it more than I can ever put into words because for so many years that was me.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: To the point that I actually felt relief when child protection eventually stepped into my case.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because deep down I knew that things had to change, but I was paralyzed.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: For a whole range of reasons that I won't go into here, I wasn't being protective.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was failing myself and my son because I really wanted to outsource the decision making.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have the capacity.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted someone to save me from the decisions that I knew would enrage my ex.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: And what I learned the hard way is this.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: No one's coming.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: No one comes to save us.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: We actually do have to save ourselves.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that is why I created the blueprint.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because it is really fucking hard to save yourself when you have no idea what the fuck you're doing, when you're not aware of the evidence, when you're not sure how to assess risk, or whether the care arrangements you agreed to are actually age and developmentally appropriate for your children.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: The blueprint is all about putting on your own cape and being the hero for your own kids, instead of searching for someone else to do that job for you.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, and I say this with all the love, but also with kind of a throwing a cup of water in your face kind of vibe, no one is coming to save you.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: No one else can save you.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Not any lawyer, not any mediator, not any psychologist or family therapist.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: No one.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if anyone tells you they can, run.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because no one else is losing sleep thinking about your kids.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Except maybe me, because again, that's why I created the blueprint.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know what it's like to lie awake at night wondering whether or not my child is safe.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: The blueprint is your map, your survival kit, your rations, your first aid.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And Trudy and I are the field gods.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: But we don't do the job for our clients.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're there helping the ones who want support to apply the map in the survival kit to their own situation.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're there with the torch, lighting the way, saying, follow me, it's this way.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, honestly, sometimes we do feel like shouting.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: We want to yell, for fuck's sake.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Not that way, this way.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it's scary.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you're worried that you can't do it.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm here to tell you that you can.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I'm doing this work.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I created the blueprint.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I'm showing up on this podcast.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know you can.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know how much you love your kids.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that, like everyone who works with me, you've got a cast iron badass bitch in you somewhere that is itching to get out and start making all the decisions in the best possible way.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so proud of you for coming this far already, for listening to this podcast, for making the decision to leave, or contemplating leaving if you haven't made the move yet.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Never mind the air fryers, the vacuum cleaners, the hair straighteners, the skincare products, the shit from Officeworks.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I say that really lovingly because I love me some office work supplies.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a bit of a stationary nerd.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Never mind all the emails clogging up your inbox right now with Black Friday deals about shit you don't really need.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you're going to spend money, spend it on something that you truly won't regret.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Spend it on something that will help you to create your legacy.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Help you to be the change maker and the cycle breaker that I know you are and that your kids need you to be.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you take one thing from today, let it be this.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: A certificate from a men's behavior change program ain't safety.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: A certificate from a parenting course is not evidence of safety.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Final orders are not safety.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: You are the safety.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: You are the one holding the truth that the community and the system currently don't want to face.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you're allowed to hold that line fiercely and unapologetically.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're in active litigation, living with final orders from years ago, preparing for court, or simply trying to get through the week.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you need the blueprint, coaching support, or both.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to do this alone.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't have to pretend that final orders have solved everything when you're still navigating coercive control on a regular basis.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: If this episode helped you to feel seen or validated, please do share it with someone else who's also been told that they're being too cautious or too protective.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being here with me today for another episode of the Post Separation Abuse Podcast.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I look forward to chatting again with you soon.