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The Parable of the Sheep and the Goats · The Grove Church

• 0:04
  Charlie Loften: The questions we wrestle with as Christians about who God is, how do we live out our faith, what is the Bible, what is the truth of the Bible, what are we supposed to believe? How are we supposed to live? There are really big, deep questions that we ask each other, that we ask God, that we wrestle with ourselves. And that's why the Cultivate podcast exists, to help us go deeper in our understanding of who God is, his word, and the way that he's called us to live. Hey, everyone.
• 0:36
  Welcome to the Cultivate Podcast with The Grove Church. I'm Charlie Loften. I'm the lead pastor there, and we are joined by the creative director, the podcast producer, the ever awesome, always one and only, no one like her
• 0:51
  Abgail Boone: Wow.
• 0:52
  Charlie Loften: DJ Bagel Boone. You got some Instagram for in you. Right?
• 0:58
  Abgail Boone: I think whenever we did that as a staff team, that's the first time I've gotten any, like, hint of it. But I don't really have the emotional spectrum that fours have. I think that because definitely have the creativity. I were to
• 1:11
  Charlie Loften: say there's absolutely no one like you, is that like, does that feel like the best compliment you can get? Because that's a very four thing.
• 1:19
  Abgail Boone: I just wouldn't believe you, but...
• 1:21
  Charlie Loften: Okay. Well, then you're probably not a four. A four would be like, finally.
• 1:24
  Abgail Boone: I'm a pretty tried and true seven.
• 1:28
  Charlie Loften: Okay. I'm like a... I don't want to... There's a part of me that's like, no, I want you to think that I'm normal.
• 1:38
  Abgail Boone: You?
• 1:38
  Charlie Loften: I want people to think I'm normal. Oh, sure.
• 1:41
  Abgail Boone: You don't have to be anything spectacular.
• 1:42
  Charlie Loften: I'm not trying to get you to think that I'm something extraordinary.
• 1:46
  Abgail Boone: I don't want people to think I'm fun and funny.
• 1:49
  Charlie Loften: My mom would say that growing up, it was my biggest ambition to... For people to not know that I'm smart, or to at least not be known as being smart.
• 2:00
  Abgail Boone: That's fair. My biggest, like, highest compliment would be if someone else told me, like, oh, I've heard of you. They say you're so funny. Like, I
• 2:09
  Charlie Loften: accept that. I'm with that. I some of that.
• 2:13
  Abgail Boone: So, one.
• 2:15
  Charlie Loften: Alright. Well, what? Guess what? Guess what? Guess what?
• 2:17
  Abgail Boone: One, last one?
• 2:18
  Charlie Loften: This is it. Not best one, definitely last one. It is. It's one of the ones, I mean, last week kind of was like, And this one is a little bit like, I'm reading Paul, I'm reading Paul, oh, I get this, I get this. And then James comes in and says, You say it's by faith alone, but me, you better do something.
• 2:41
  And you're like, Woah!
• 2:42
  Abgail Boone: That's a nice little smorgasbord of all of them.
• 2:45
  Charlie Loften: Well, it's like, James just feels like it doesn't fit in.
• 2:49
  Abgail Boone: Like,
• 2:50
  Charlie Loften: just last week. Hey, you can't get in here with your own clothes.
• 2:56
  Abgail Boone: Yeah.
• 2:57
  Charlie Loften: Well, let's see what you still think about that. In Matthew chapter 25, starting in verse 31, When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. Okay. So are we are we good with the timeline here? Where we're at?
• 3:13
  Like, this is the... When I say apocalyptic, this is as apocalyptic as it is. This is definitely the end times. This the this is like the last the... This is final judgment time is where we're at.
• 3:24
  He's sitting on his throne, the angels are with him, all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
• 3:34
  Abgail Boone: Okay, that was going be my question. If this was like the dying part or entrance into the Heaven Stadium.
• 3:44
  Charlie Loften: Yeah. This is this is, you know, there there's some question really about, like, if you die right now, before all this happens, you're to sorted. You're going to have your own sort of kind of sorting ceremony. This feels like a big sorting ceremony that happens to the end to a large mass of people that all get in at once. And so, at the end of time...
• 4:11
  Abgail Boone: So you don't think we'll have
• 4:12
  Charlie Loften: to redo it? This seems to be tied, at least, it's a parable, so we've to be careful. It seems to be tied to, very And so the only way that this theoretically applies to everyone Is
• 4:28
  Abgail Boone: that we're at that point.
• 4:29
  Charlie Loften: Or if, like, you've been in some sort of weird holding tank
• 4:33
  Abgail Boone: Sure.
• 4:33
  Charlie Loften: And now you're going to get judged. Or, hey, spoiler alert, you're good, so you're going to the good place, but we're to bring everybody out again one more One more time.
• 4:45
  Abgail Boone: Act like you haven't done it yet. Think you don't know. Some of them don't know. Have you ever heard of the Bema Seat, or Bema Seat, Yeah. Something like heard a sermon over it one time, and it gave me the picture of a stadium, and the Jumbotron is how you can see the people at the bottom when they're on the judgment.
• 5:04
  Yeah. Is this is kinda... And it gives those vibes to
• 5:06
  Charlie Loften: Mary This is that vibe. This is where we're at. This is where we're at.
• 5:09
  Abgail Boone: Not that that's theologically accurate, but...
• 5:11
  Charlie Loften: This is this should connect you to the the Bema Seat that is talked about in Revelation. You you should... Yeah. Yeah. This this is where we're at.
• 5:21
  Then the king will say to those on his right, and we're not confused that who the who the king is.
• 5:28
  Abgail Boone: Wait. Where are you? Oh, you're at the 34.
• 5:29
  Charlie Loften: Verse 34. Okay. As we've already said, it's the Son of Man. The Son of Man is now explicitly the King. Jesus is now explicitly the King.
• 5:36
  Come, you who are blessed by my Father, take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me in. I needed clothes, and you clothed me.
• 5:52
  I was sick, and you looked after me. I was in prison, and you came to visit me. Then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go visit you?
• 6:10
  The king will reply, truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, depart from me, you who are cursed into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry, and you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger, and you did not invite me in.
• 6:33
  I needed clothes, and you did not clothe me. I was sick and in prison, and you did not look after me. They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison and did not help you? He will reply, truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
• 6:59
  Abgail Boone: So they don't say the word sheep and goat anywhere in there.
• 7:02
  Charlie Loften: It did.
• 7:03
  Abgail Boone: Weird. Okay. Yeah. Shepherd separates the sheep. So is the sheep the good people?
• 7:08
  Charlie Loften: The sheep are on the right, and the goats are on the left.
• 7:11
  Abgail Boone: Okay.
• 7:12
  Charlie Loften: So maybe that is part of where devil goat comes from?
• 7:15
  Abgail Boone: See, that They has confused
• 7:17
  Charlie Loften: got real red eyes. Goats are kind of scary.
• 7:20
  Abgail Boone: Horrifying. But, there's also the scapegoat, which is a good thing, right?
• 7:26
  Charlie Loften: A scapegoat is the one who has all the sin put on it.
• 7:30
  Abgail Boone: But you like that guy.
• 7:31
  Charlie Loften: Because he's taking He's all of your got all the sin on him. He's doing good for you, but he is not in and of himself good.
• 7:39
  Abgail Boone: Sure. Okay, that's fair. But this goat is bad.
• 7:43
  Charlie Loften: In this context, the goats are bad. The sheep are good, the goats are bad. Okay. There's a couple of things to point out here before we kind of get to the heart of it. One is, he describes hell as being prepared for the devil and his angels, which is really, really important in modern day hell mythology.
• 8:02
  Because we think of, and some of us got our doctrine of hell
• 8:05
  Abgail Boone: Specific mythology, from not theology. That's different.
• 8:09
  Charlie Loften: Yeah. So we think of hell, and a lot of us got this from cartoons, that the devil is kind of the caretaker down there, and the devil is getting people, and he's excited about it. He loves being in hell, and he loves when people come there, and he's kind of the caretaker. That is just not what hell is. Hell is a place that the Father created a long, long time ago as a place of final judgment for Satan.
• 8:36
  Satan is not there and is not happy about the fact that he's gonna end up there.
• 8:41
  Abgail Boone: Mhmm.
• 8:42
  Charlie Loften: It was... It is a bad place prepared for him. So he's there also going to end up going to because they have chosen the same path that Satan did, which is to reject God and follow their own path.
• 8:54
  Abgail Boone: And he's seemingly not there yet.
• 8:55
  Charlie Loften: He is not there yet. That is important. As we're thinking about what what what we think we know about hell and the most common myths about hell, that's not it. It's not it. Okay.
• 9:07
  So, the King has come. He's separating everybody into two categories, sheep and goats. And the difference between a sheep and a goat is what you did when you, quote, saw Jesus hungry, thirsty, naked, sick, or in prison?
• 9:25
  Abgail Boone: Naked. Naked. Sounds like my side of the family. Naked. Naked.
• 9:30
  Charlie Loften: It's handful one of of words I just can't desouthernize in my head. Naked? Could, sure I could. It's like, and whether or not you saw Jesus naked, and then it's like
• 9:41
  Abgail Boone: Whether you saw Jesus naked?
• 9:43
  Charlie Loften: Naked. Naked. Naked. It just doesn't feel right.
• 9:49
  Abgail Boone: Naked. It sounds like when my mom says, I I can't even say it the way she says it, but it's so shortened and a draw on it.
• 10:02
  Charlie Loften: Even want to say naked the right way. I just don't want That's to fair. It's not the words. Naked.
• 10:09
  Abgail Boone: So, we gonna discuss who these people are or who we think these people are?
• 10:13
  Charlie Loften: It seems to be everybody. At a particular point in history, it seems to be everybody. I'm going to start you with a very nuanced view. And that people are going to be like, Okay, he's not lost it, but it's like, It's not that I've lost it, but I'm going to lose you. Like, you're going to be like, Brody lost me.
• 10:36
  In a premillennial eschatology, which we have talked about, you know, it really confuses me. Okay. In that, there's going to be seven years of tribulation, and then after the seven years of tribulation, Jesus comes back and establishes a one thousand year reign on the earth. Okay? And at the end of that thousand year reign, after that, like during this time, Satan and his minions are temporarily bound.
• 11:09
  Abgail Boone: Mhmm.
• 11:10
  Charlie Loften: They are released at the end of the thousand. There is a huge fight, battle, which is called Armageddon. Mhmm. Jesus is gonna conquer the angel... Satan and all his demons are heading down to hell, and there will be a final judgment at the end of that.
• 11:29
  In that very nuanced eschatology, who is being judged here are the living people that live during this thousand year reign. If we die before that, we kinda, you know, it's very standard. I put my faith and trust in Jesus, and I go to heaven. I don't follow Jesus. I go to hell.
• 11:57
  During this thousand years where Jesus is literally a king on the earth, everyone, technically, is following Jesus. He's the
• 12:08
  Abgail Boone: king. But
• 12:12
  Charlie Loften: really, not everyone does. You're kind of He's the king, and so, sort of, but not really. And so, this is a way of describing and delineating the two groups of a very specific type of person. The people that will be with Jesus at that time, all supposedly followers, but not really sheep and goats. You were the authentic followers of me, and I know that because of how your heart changed, and how that heart manifests certain responses.
• 12:46
  I know that you guys are not genuine followers of mine, because you were really only giving lip service, and I know that because your heart did not change, and you did not react the way that you were supposed to. So, this is a way of determining who are my genuine followers versus people who are fake followers. That is the difference between a sheep and a goat. It is not the difference between someone who follows Jesus and someone who explicitly does not follow Jesus. Right.
• 13:17
  Abgail Boone: Yeah. It could be also the person. Yeah.
• 13:21
  Charlie Loften: Okay. And so, right now we die, and we're being judged on whether or not we are or are not a follower of Jesus, but there will come a time when sheeps and goats are judged based on whether or not they were actually followers of Jesus or only pretending to follow Jesus. Because in this story, it's like... And Jesus is like, you gotta go because you didn't feed me. And you're like, bro, you were like in Jerusalem on the throne.
• 13:47
  Like, when did we even... I never even saw you. Like, I was... I, like, I lived in Taiwan, and you were... Like, I never...
• 13:54
  Like, what are you what are you even on about? Mhmm. They're not like, you know, like, somebody right now, Jesus sitting on the throne, it's like, you never even fed me. Like, bro, I don't even know who you are. Right.
• 14:05
  He's not... The fact that he's not identifying himself Mhmm. Kind of points to some sort of different class of people that he's evaluating beyond just the world as a whole.
• 14:21
  Abgail Boone: Mhmm.
• 14:22
  Charlie Loften: Does that make sense?
• 14:23
  Abgail Boone: Kind of.
• 14:25
  Charlie Loften: Have a question do that you have a question you wanna ask to kinda clarify or wanna
• 14:29
  Abgail Boone: just keep talking? Saying Are least of these is the mass population or the people being judged is?
• 14:37
  Charlie Loften: The people being judged are the mass population that live during this particular window. Yeah. And within the thousand year kingdom of Jesus, there are going to be people who still lack food,
• 14:51
  Abgail Boone: you know, harming. I see where you're at. Okay. That cleared it up.
• 14:55
  Charlie Loften: There going to be people like that, and Jesus, as the King, is going to want you to take care of the people who need help. And the way He's going to be able to determine whether or not you're pretending to be a follower or are really a follower is based on, do you have the heart change that allows you to be a compassionate person? Or are you a self focused person?
• 15:21
  Abgail Boone: Yeah. So two things. One, I've decided my main critique of end times theology is that there's too many camps. There's too many camps and nuances, so get out of here.
• 15:33
  Charlie Loften: But what did you think a couple of weeks ago at Sunday when we talked about... I mean, we showed a lot of camps like communion.
• 15:39
  Abgail Boone: I know.
• 15:39
  Charlie Loften: Communion's got more camps than than eschatology, I think.
• 15:43
  Abgail Boone: But easier to explain. But
• 15:46
  Charlie Loften: Is Jesus here? I got a piece of bread. Is Jesus here or not?
• 15:49
  Abgail Boone: Yeah. That's a lot more straightforward than, like, 10 different caveats in one story.
• 15:57
  Charlie Loften: So... But even even if even if that's not true
• 16:00
  Abgail Boone: Mhmm.
• 16:01
  Charlie Loften: It does seem to be a division amongst people who claim to follow Jesus. Yeah. It is not a division amongst people who follow Jesus and people who explicitly don't follow And so, it does not seem to be, which is why, again, this kind of falls into kind of more like a parable than a straightforward teaching. Because what he's saying is, here's how you're going to know whether or not you are really an authentic follower of mine or not. You're going to manifest these things.
• 16:36
  Again, which connects this thing to the teaching of James. Like, you are saved by grace through faith. Sure. But the the way that it will manifest itself is a is a compassionate heart. You will have compassion.
• 16:52
  Abgail Boone: What's probably great Start off to my next question that this is going to sound workspace, but how do you make sure you're the one that does take care of the least of
• 17:04
  Charlie Loften: you? This is it feel on its surface. It is very workspace. It feels workspace That the whole world is going to be determined by how compassionate they are to Which the is difficult because if it is, in fact fact, works based,
• 17:23
  Abgail Boone: then
• 17:25
  Charlie Loften: this is actually more confusing than helpful. Because have I ever fed someone who was hungry? Yes. Have I ever given someone water who was thirsty? Yes.
• 17:37
  Have I ever given clothes to somebody who needed them? Yes. Have I ever visited someone who was sick? Yes. Not everybody has done this, but I have.
• 17:47
  Have you ever visited someone in prison? Yes, I have. I have done all of those things at least once. I'm in.
• 17:56
  Abgail Boone: Does that quote? Yeah.
• 17:57
  Charlie Loften: Am I in? Have I chosen at time to not do those things? Yes. I don't have a perfect track record on doing those things. And so, is it one and done?
• 18:09
  You have to do one of each? Are there a lot of people out there that are really good people, but have never had occasion or thought to go visit somebody in prison, and they're going be like, Oh man, you came so close. Four out of five is not bad, but you've got to have better than a... That's 80%. That's a B.
• 18:23
  Abgail Boone: Well, see, it does also feel, I guess, confusing how narrow it is because some people could say, well, Jesus commanded to take care of the orphans, widows, and the poor. But you're like, well, there's just so much more than that. But that is things that he did specifically say, or that's specific like called out, but that doesn't mean that's the only things. And it's like, this kind of makes it feel like someone could narrow in and be like, well, these are the only actions. Right.
• 18:54
  It's like, that's kind of just one manuscript manifestation manifestation. Yeah. That was a tongue twister that it could be played out in. But like, I guess I've always wondered are the least of these My background that I come from tells me evangelism is to the lost. But is it also okay to just minister to those in need?
• 19:21
  Are those both the least of these?
• 19:23
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, which is really why this really fails as a works based a a a based story. Like, wow, Jesus... We thought it was by trusting Jesus, but really, everyone, whether they're Christian or not, is going to be judged based on this. It really fails because it does not encapsulate all of Jesus' teaching.
• 19:46
  Abgail Boone: Right.
• 19:46
  Charlie Loften: And it also does not lay the standard out. And so, at best, he is still talking about a heart. This is not you have done these things.
• 19:58
  Abgail Boone: But you're a person who does these things.
• 20:00
  Charlie Loften: This is who you are. Yeah. This is who you are. And how do I become such a person still is an unanswered question. Man, I hate people.
• 20:09
  They're the worst. They're terrible. I've probably actually killed quite a few of them. But if I can just, on a few occasions, do these five specific asks, then I've tricked Jesus into forcing me into letting me into heaven. Sure, I stole from people and killed a few people, but I also, you know, use use my wealth to set up these charities, and these charities did this thing.
• 20:40
  Beep, bop, boop. Sorry, had to take me in. And where and where does a where does a person who does not have the resources to do this? There's a third category of people. We've got sheep, we've got goats, and we've got the least of these who didn't have the ability to do it.
• 20:53
  Right. Well, they don't make it in. It's like, where were you, man? I was I was hungry. You didn't get many food.
• 20:58
  Like, bro, I didn't have any food.
• 20:59
  Abgail Boone: Well, I think it's also the difference in, like, it's not like we all got a playbook of tasks we have to finish before we die. It's more so, like, have you seen that study of they did? I can't believe they did this, but they did a house of teenage boys and a house of teenage girls and left them there for like a couple of weeks. And by the end of that, the guy's house was just like an absolute disaster and they had become like champions at some video game. Mhmm.
• 21:25
  And the girls had created like a system Mhmm. Of how to manage the house and who was in charge of what day for what different items. Not like somebody gave them a playbook, but they came back and observe what you did with your time right at the end of it. Yeah, and it just reveals what you naturally would do, right? And this isn't like, oh, we gave you a playbook of these are the you need to check these off before you It was like, well, you had this much time to live, let's just see what you did with it.
• 21:50
  Charlie Loften: Yeah. And what kind of heart do you have? And how does... The question you should answer, like... So it doesn't make sense as a straight workspace deal because it doesn't really give answers.
• 22:03
  I think even the people who want this to be workspace would say, really, no, it is a heart space thing that manifests itself in works. I don't think that you can say that he is now given some sort of works based loophole or whatever that tells you how to get into heaven. It's not that. Someone who's more of a plural can say, well, you can be a non Christian and still meet that standard of you're a good person who does this. But again, it's not people who do these things, it is a heart that is inclined to do these things.
• 22:44
  And so then that makes you ask the question, where does the heart come from? And again, I think even if we are not all pre millennialists, there is something to this idea that He really seems to only be talking about people who say that they follow Him. It does not seem to be a judgment between people who follow Jesus and people who don't follow Jesus. It is how do you weed out the pretenders from the regulars. Even if you're not premillennial, this does not seem to be the historical account of everyone in the world as being judged.
• 23:23
  It seems to be a narrow group that he is talking about here. People who say they follow me.
• 23:29
  Abgail Boone: It is honestly 10 times scarier.
• 23:31
  Charlie Loften: Oh, yeah. I mean, so, that there's a sense in which, okay, we know what happens to people who don't follow Jesus. They they don't follow the King, they don't believe in the King, they don't follow... Like, it's a... They're not in the kingdom over here.
• 23:44
  Now, people who say they are a part of the kingdom, there is a way in which we judge them. Sheep over here, goats over here, and I'll know the difference based on your heart.
• 23:58
  Abgail Boone: What's that for?
• 23:59
  Charlie Loften: So turning your phone on do not disturb Doesn't. Does not keep you from your weekday alarm that happens every Monday through Friday that reminds you, hey, wherever you are in Northwest Arkansas, think about what time it is and where you are, because you need to go pick up your daughter soon.
• 24:14
  Abgail Boone: Have you ever forgotten that?
• 24:19
  Charlie Loften: Ever. Ever. I'm sure ever. Especially when I didn't have this lump, I did forget to pick Lauren up from preschool once, twenty one years ago. Motorola didn't happen?
• 24:35
  That has happened. My little Palm Pilot.
• 24:38
  Abgail Boone: I loved my parents' Palm Pilot. Was
• 24:41
  Charlie Loften: A my Palm Pilot and a phone, and had a stylus, technology was never going to get any better.
• 24:46
  Abgail Boone: Because it had the stylus where I could draw whenever Oh, I was in a car rider mine wasn't colored. Was just the,
• 24:52
  Charlie Loften: like, You green can decide on your own.
• 24:55
  Abgail Boone: That's staying.
• 24:56
  Charlie Loften: If you want to keep this thing.
• 24:57
  Abgail Boone: That's staying because PalmPilot generation It's just is the only...
• 25:01
  Charlie Loften: Also that alarm was in there, and that was a little embarrassing for me.
• 25:04
  Abgail Boone: That's alright.
• 25:06
  Charlie Loften: Yeah. And so, this is, I think, is a parable for people who identify themselves as Christians.
• 25:16
  Abgail Boone: But to that, who would have probably been listening at the time, right?
• 25:20
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, we're down to Jesus is imminently about to be arrested.
• 25:25
  Abgail Boone: So a lot of the Jewish audience.
• 25:27
  Charlie Loften: So this this is this is a primarily talking to the insiders here.
• 25:32
  Abgail Boone: Okay. That's why I said it's scarier than... Because seemingly someone who doesn't believe it is not scared by our beliefs of end times. But someone who is on the side where they would say they believe it, that's terrifying to think that you're getting it wrong.
• 25:48
  Charlie Loften: No. I mean, I want to assuage that guilt that you feel or the fear that you have. I don't think it is meant to cause you fear. Right? I don't think it is, okay, well, according to this, I have to also be good enough.
• 26:07
  Abgail Boone: Mhmm.
• 26:07
  Charlie Loften: That's where fear comes in. But it's like, I know for certain that I'm not trying to get here on my own goodness, and I know that God has softened my heart, and I know that I'm the kind of person that behaves in such a way that there's no way I would have on my own done that, been that kind of person. Because I know in my heart I'm actually fairly selfish. I would never do that. I just remember this time, this was a summer, it would have to have been at least eight years ago, because we were here in this building, but we still had offices over there, and it was a really hot summer.
• 26:55
  There was a little bus stop right outside our office. I just decided I was going to buy a couple of those Styrofoam coolers.
• 27:05
  Abgail Boone: Oh, yeah?
• 27:06
  Charlie Loften: And put some things of water and some ice in them and just set them out there. I don't know, take one, take a bunch, just take the whole cooler. It would happen a different way, but there was just a couple of weeks there, I just felt compelled to do that. It was just kind of like, I don't know, I don't even know how to describe it. And I'm not sitting there telling you, and now you can know Charlie's a good person, because for one three to four week period, several summers ago, gave away a lot of water.
• 27:34
  Went to some effort to give away bottles of water. I mean, there's lots of things that I could say that are like that, but it's just like, there's no That's not me. And I've got a bunch of weird stories about helping people who are experiencing homelessness that needed a ride or needed something like that, where God just is clearly orchestrating these kinds of situations. It's in my head, God clearly put them in front of me in this moment, and I know I need to do something about it. I'm not thinking, I'm going to do something about that because I'm a good person.
• 28:08
  I'm going to do something about that because I have this great, deep compassion. And I was like, I see that, and the God voice in me says, That's for you to do. And I respond to it, not because I think I'm some great person, or I have some huge compassion for the needy, but because God has changed me and told me, I broke it. This one's yours. I can't meet every need I ever see forever.
• 28:36
  But there are a few that I think that are very obvious that God puts in front of me and says, This one is yours. And one of the ways I can know that I'm a sheep rather than a goat is when He puts those in front of me. Yeah, okay.
• 28:51
  Abgail Boone: Mhmm. Okay. Yeah. Your heart is softened to the point that it would
• 28:56
  Charlie Loften: Because he's done something in me.
• 28:59
  Abgail Boone: Mhmm.
• 29:00
  Charlie Loften: So I think it is not meant to... I don't think it is meant to make you be afraid. Mhmm. I think it is making you stop and evaluate. What has God done to me?
• 29:16
  He has made me a more compassionate person. He has made me someone who behaves in ways that are different than just your standard selfishness. I still got a little bit of that in me. I still like sitting in an intersection and somebody's sitting there and asking, I don't wanna draw eye contact. I'm still not great, but I do recognize that God has remade my heart.
• 29:45
  And I know from the rest of Jesus' teaching and from the rest of the New Testament that that is something that only God can do. Mhmm. It is not something that is manufactured.
• 29:55
  Abgail Boone: Yeah. Well, I guess it takes us back to the parable right before talking about He also clothes you.
• 30:03
  Charlie Loften: Mhmm.
• 30:03
  Abgail Boone: Clothes you, not closes. Right. Not just you're you're invited and that you gotta make your own way.
• 30:12
  Charlie Loften: So are you really leaving in the... That my phone alarm went off? Really Okay. Leaving that Well, then we can say for certain here right now
• 30:19
  Abgail Boone: You gotta go.
• 30:20
  Charlie Loften: That I gotta go. We're gonna have to call it.
• 30:22
  Abgail Boone: That's fair.
• 30:22
  Charlie Loften: We're gonna have to call it. So, again, we did it.
• 30:27
  Abgail Boone: I know. We did it. But
• 30:29
  Charlie Loften: We're gonna wrap it up. We're gonna
• 30:31
  Abgail Boone: do a wrap. Do call it? Wrapisode? Wrapisode, yeah.
• 30:33
  Charlie Loften: We're gonna wrap it up, and then it's your time. And I'm still trying to figure out exactly how I want to frame it. Because I know you probably want more, not less weeks.
• 30:44
  Abgail Boone: I do.
• 30:45
  Charlie Loften: So, I'm still trying to think. There's a lot of different ways to frame it, but there are so many different kinds of things that I want to cover. Like, I absolutely want to spend some time talking about that panel of sorts that Luther and I Swainly definitely want to talk about that. I've got to talk about my boy Constantine. But anyways, that's what's coming.
• 31:08
  That, we're
• 31:08
  Abgail Boone: going wrap be it up. First time ever that I send you things that I want to make sure we cover in a series, rather than me just receiving.
• 31:15
  Charlie Loften: Said anything that I want to make sure we... Was it a Irenaeus? I gotta make sure we cover Irenaeus.
• 31:20
  Abgail Boone: I love that guy.
• 31:20
  Charlie Loften: The only person in my life, I think, has ever texted me the name Irenaeus. That's who Boone is, guys. And thank you, as always, for being an excellent cohost, and thank you for joining us. And we'll see you next time. Thank you for listening to the Cultivate Podcast.
• 31:37
  Our hope is that you are taking steps to go deeper in your faith, that you are asking big questions, and you're looking for answers. We hope that we can be a resource for you through our podcast and any other way that we can help you. You can find all our episodes anywhere that you can find podcasts, including YouTube. And again, thank you so much for joining us.