Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Pathways To Prevention Symposium with Dr. Bruce Perry, Michael Remole and Dr. Emily Wang

Transcript

Pathways To Prevention Symposium with Dr. Bruce Perry, Michael Remole and Dr. Emily Wang · The Trauma Therapist

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gamiferson.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting the show. Five, four,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: three and two and one. All right, Emily, where are
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: you from originally? And where you are you currently?
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: So? I am from I was born in Canada and
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: I am living in Calgary, Alberta. How much do you
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: want to know?
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Like, do you want just that? Just that's it? That's it?
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: All right, Michael? How about you?
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: So?
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: I have grown up here in Central Illinois. I did
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: a little stint in Ohio in my early twenties and
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: then came back to Central Illinois to start the practice.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, awesome, all right, So Michael, why are
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: we here today?
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: So, I wanted to share some exciting things. It's been
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: a while since we've been able to connect, and a
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: lot has happened, But the biggest thing is the If
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: you remember, in twenty eighteen, there was the symposium in
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Canada with doctor Perry that was life changing for me
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: personally and professionally, and the that.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: And it's just to interrupt you, we're talking about doctor
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Bruce Perry.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Doctor Bruce Perry. Yes, And so that symposium launched a
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: lot of things from me. At that point, our clinical
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: practice was just there were just two of us. I
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: didn't I knew about trauma. I knew how trauma impacted
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: the brain, but I didn't know a whole lot about
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: what it looked like in clinical practice. And that symposium
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: connected with me with people from around the world, and
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: it stirred to firing me that I wanted to come back.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: And that's where the Rising Tide Conference came from, because
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: that was just so incredible for me. I wanted to
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: give that gift to other people. And over the years
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: we've been able to stay in touch and build some
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: of the closest friendships that I have with the neuro
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Sequential Network and the people there. And now finally, after
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: eight years, the symposium is back, and I wanted to
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: make sure that people know about this symposium and to know,
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: you know, I think in the trauma discussion, there is
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: a lot of stuff that's out there about how trauma
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: impacts the brain and kind of what we see with behavior.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: But if I'm going to be honest, I think there's
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: this struggle between that content and what does it look
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: like in practice, And so this symposium brings all those
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: things together and brings some incredibly brilliant minds together. And
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: so that's why doctor Wong is on here as well
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: as the symposium chair. That we just wanted to make
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: sure professionals know about this, and it's located in Banff, Canada.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, I can't get any better than that.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: So Emily, how did you how did you meet Michael?
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: How did you come on board here?
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a really good question. So we met
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: at one of the symposiums and I have to say,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: you know, when we think about the neurosquential model and
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: doctor Perry's work, it really is something that has shifted
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: the lens of everything that we do. So you know,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: I would say in my earlier years as a psychologist,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: there was clear expectations and directives of you know, looking
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: at psychology from the lens of behaviors. And when we
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: started to work with doctor Perry, what we started to
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: understand was what was behind those behaviors. And I would
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: say that in the whole field it became a bit
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: of a paradigm shift. It became really not just understanding,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: you know, cognitively, how do we shift behaviors, but really
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: being understand being able to understand the physiology of what
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: was happening inside the bodies that created some of these
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: maladaptive behaviors for kids and families that we were working with.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: So that shift really created a new way of us
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: being able to look at how kids were behaving and
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: what we needed to do to support them. So instead
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: of supporting how their behaviors were going to change, we
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: were supporting more how are we going to develop their
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: brain in a way that is so much more effective.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: And as Michael was saying, you know, our whole, our
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: whole idea around this is understanding the lens of the
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: neurosequential model, but being able to really think about what
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: that looks like in practice. So when we bring together
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: people from this sympos for this symposium, they're really coming
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: together to say, this is what I've done with what
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: I've understood about the lens, and this is what I've done.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: And it's amazing how creative people can be up with
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: ways of understanding what brain development means, understanding what this
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: means in practice, understanding how I want these children and
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: families that I'm working with to better understand well, to
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: be better able to capture the the best part of
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: their development and the best part of their brain.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Right, Michael, for our listeners, and as we kind of
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: get into this conversation here, how would you describe how
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: would you define the neuro sequential model.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: Okay, so the New York model is taking a look
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: at how it's how the brain naturally develops and how
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: the brain develops in sequential order, and that in order
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: to you know, that sequential order gets impacted by trauma,
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: and that it develops in the bottom up and develops
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: all these systems that are at work, and when trauma
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: comes into play, that trauma impacts those systems, and the
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: neuro squential model looks at how do we help those
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: systems heal by engaging them in the way that we're
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: naturally created, the way that we our brain naturally develops.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: And so the neuals culture model is looking at those
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: pieces and the power of understanding how those systems work
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: and how do we properly engage them, and the power
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: the healing power of relationships and connection, and it's bringing
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: all of those pieces and parts together in a way
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: that I think one of the beautiful parts is understanding.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: The brain is so complex, and doctor Perry's work has
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: made it understandable and digestible and gives us practical strategies
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: of how do we engage that brain and help the
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: healing process. No matter if you're working with little kids
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: or if you're working with adults.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: He makes it.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: He breaks it down and makes it make sense.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: For all of us.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: So emily kind of expanding on that, if I'm hearing
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: this correctly, if we've got a young kid six seven, eight,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: the experience of trauma at a certain point, when that trauma,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: that trauma is happening at a certain developmental stage, right,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: So the work, if I'm hearing correctly, is that and
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: understanding when that happens is very important because that may
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: or may not have impacted their developmental stage. Talk a
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: little bit about that.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So we know that the brain develops much more
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: quickly in the earlier years. So between zero to three,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: zero to five years of age, the brain is developing
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: very quickly, and as a result of that, the impact
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: of what is happening in those early years is a
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: lot greater than what happens in the later years. But
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: you know, as soon as I say that, we have
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: to also be aware that the brain is always the
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: brain has a level of neuroplasticity, so we're always going
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: to be changing, We're always going to be growing. It's
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: just the impact of what happens in those earlier years
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: is so much greater as a result of how quickly
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: the brain is developing at that stage.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: And if we're looking through the lens of the neurosesequential model, again,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: it's understanding specifically when that trauma happened, Yes, and politically
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: it impacted the kid, Yes, the kid's developmental stage.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so what people talk about often is that
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: developmental trauma. So there are many different aspects of trauma.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: You can talk about trauma from the perspective of having
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: a specific experience that results in post traumatic stress disorder.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: You can talk about a single incident trauma. You can
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: talk about intergenerational trauma. When we're talking about those early
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: years of development, we are talking about developmental trauma. What
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: has happened in those early relationship interactions, What has happened
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: during the interuterine period. Uh, if there was a lot
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: of chaos, if there was poverty, if there was substance
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: abuse to Mexic violence during those periods of time, and
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: the attachment period is impacted, then there's more likely to
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: be what we call developmental trauma, which then changed the
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: changes the trajectory of how the brain develops.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, so Michael, stepping back a little bit, what is
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: your goals more specifically with with the symposium?
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: So I, you know, I think that this is such
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: an incredible gift, you know, getting connected to doctor Long
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: and doctor Perry and then Neurosequential community has been such
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: an incredible gift that it's like a gift that I
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: can't help but share because there are a lot of
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: us in the mental health field that battle burnout, and
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: the community and the support that comes from the neuro
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Sequential network and the community of people there has been
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: has helped me through some of the hardest days in
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: my career, not just you know, like managing things from
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: cases and being able to say, hey, I'm stuck, can
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: you help me here? As well as just being a
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: source of encouragement and support. That's the hope is that
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: people would come to this and not just learn content
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: related stuff you know, I think that's really important. But
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: the connection in the community, I just I can't say
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: enough about it because it's what it's what's helped me,
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: and I know that it can help so many other people,
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: and so I just I wanted to make sure that
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: we were on here so that we could share this
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: with other people. I kind of joke you get continuing
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: education and it's like a vacation being in Banff. I
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: think it's you can't get any better than that. And
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: then also as a part of the symposium, there's the
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: pre conference with doctor Perry and taking a look at
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: the natural rhythms of the natural healing rhythms of the
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: world and being able to take a look at what
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: are we doing for our bodies and making sure that
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: we're taking care of ourselves as professionals as well. I
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: think is really important in making sure that we're letting
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: people know this isn't just about content, it's about connection,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: it's about experiencing. Like I think the way that the
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: even the schedule is put together is helping us with
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: doctor Perry's concept the regulate relate reason. So you're not
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: only going to learn about this at the symposium, you're
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: going to experience it, and I think that that's just incredible.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: But you've got a preconference and the symposium. You've got
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: an incredible venue and incredible connection with people that will
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: last long after the symposium. And so that's that's my goal.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: That's my hope, is that more people hear about this.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: So this what is the date of the symposium? Number one?
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: And is it you mentioned it's in bamp Is there
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: going to be an online virtual act component as well?
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: So there is?
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: It is October twenty sixth through the twenty ninth. The
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: pre conference in October twenty sixth, and the symposium twenty seventh,
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: twenty eighth, twenty ninth. And this is in person, so
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: that we're encouraging everybody. You know, while we love the
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: convenience of online, there's just something about that connection.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Of course, now you're talking about the neurosequential community. Is
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: this symposium solely for people in the community, And when
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: you say community, what do you what do you mean
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: by that? For our listeners?
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is open to everybody, and I'm speaking
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: to the simposed or to the neurosequential community because that's
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: where we're connected and that's the base of where these
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: things are driving from. The presentations are selected because they
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: are utilizing the neurosequential model as the framework, and so
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: that's that's part of why that is there. But if
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: you are somebody that's new to the neuro sequential network
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: in doctor Perry's work, or you're somebody who's very seasoned
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: in this, this symposium is going to have different presentations,
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: the different content that's going to equip and inspire and
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: encourage you. So it's open to everybody, but you I
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: have to warn you you're going to get connected to
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: an incredible community if you're not already part of the
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: neurosequential community.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Emily, one of the things I know that Michael wanted
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: to talk about was what this looks like in practice
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: talking about this this lens. Talk a little bit about that.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, this is the beauty of the model.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: And before I get into practice, is it okay if
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I mentioned a couple other things, just of course, okay?
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: So you know, when we are looking at the neurosequential model,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: there are so many different models of trauma informed care,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: and with the neurosquential model, we believe that there are
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: so many elements of being able to create a deeper dive. So,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: in other words, oftentimes if you are a child and
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: youth care counselor, you can understand the brain from a
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: certain level. If you are a neuroscientist, or if you
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: are really well versed in neuroscience and maybe not a
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: neuroscientist and you want to understand more about the core
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: regulatory networks serotonin, nor pinefrin and things like that, you
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: can just go into a bit of a deeper dive.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: So it has so many levels of understanding in which
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: we can do our work, in which we can think
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: about ourselves as clinicians, neuroscientists, as researchers as well. We
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: have a component of the symposium that is going to
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: be focused on bringing researchers together to think about how
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: they want to be looking at outcomes for kids, how
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: they want to be understanding evidence based treatments for children
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: and families as well. The other piece that I think
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: is really important when we think about the neurosquentcial model
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: of their When we think about the neursequential model, there
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: are so many different models within that. It started from
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: the neurosquential model of therapeutics, which was all about maltreated children.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: But since then, you know, it's really been there is
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: now the neurse quential model in education, the neurse quential
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: model of therapeutics in early childhood, in reflective practice and supervision,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: in sport, in caregiving. So what that tells us is
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: that we're no longer just looking at trauma, but we're
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: also looking at how the brain develops, just neurobiologically, right,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: So instead of saying that we're trauma informed, we're actually
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: being neurobiologically informed, so that when we're an educator and
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: we're we have a classroom full of students, how are
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: we going to optimize their education? How are we going
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: to optimize their development? And it's no longer about okay,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: we're going to understand trauma and therefore that's going to happen.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: But we're basically saying, what does a teacher need in
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: order to provide a best an opportunity for each child
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: within the classroom. So of course the piece around that
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: is what does it look like organizationally? So even though
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: this is a model speaking about each individual child, as
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: you know, when we're trauma informed, we're often talking about
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: you know, being developmentally appropriate for each child. But amongst
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: along with that, we also have to provide structure. We
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: have to provide predictability. So what does the organization or
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: what does the classroom in that particular case look like.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: We're going to create as much predictability as possible, so
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: the brain has access to novel information, and so it's
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: not just about the child, it's also about organizationally. It's
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: also so when we think about the neuro sequential model
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: in reflective supervision and reflective supervision, we're thinking about, so,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: how are these teachers doing, for instance, I'm using education
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: as an example, how are these caregivers doing. If they
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: are not doing well, there's no way they're going to
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: be able to support children and families as well. So
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: it really is we start with the child in the middle,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: and then we say, but the whole system has to
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: change in order for us to be able to do
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: this well. And that's what symposium is really bringing together
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: is that entire system of people that are working with
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: these families, caregivers, professionals. How are we thinking about the child,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: How are we supporting the caregivers? How are we supporting
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: the professionals in a way that is neurobiologically informed so
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: that they can do the best work that they can
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: do in those places.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I really appreciate you mentioning that because I think
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: that speaks to people listening from all who are coming
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: at this from all different angles. Yeah, exciting, Michael, talk
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: a little bit about Emily You're dove in just a
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: little bit. But how the how the symposium structured, who's
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: going to be there? Maybe give us a little taste
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: what are uh some of the headings going to look like?
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: What is it? Could talk to us?
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm going to invite doctor Wong as well
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: to share because there's there's so many amazing people that
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: I don't want to miss out on that. But we've
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: got doctor Bruce Perry, We've got doctor Stewart Avalon with
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: think Kids, doctor Mark Brackett, and then Miles and I'm right,
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: I'm John, Yes, So, uh, those are our our keynote speakers,
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: and then we have a whole list of highlighted speakers.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: Doctor Long if you want to, well, let me let
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: me interrupt us.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Rather than speakers, just give us the headings of what
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: they're going to be talking about, because I think that
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: might be able to speak or get more more people
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: as attention.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Well, and so doctor Wong was talking about how the
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: nerves stricture model has these different components of the neuroscrientual
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: model of caregiving, of sport, of education, all of those things,
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: and so the presenters are bringing those pieces together and
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: saying this is what it looks like in education and
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: so for the neu scripture model education for caregivers. So
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: we've got the people who've helped kind of launch the
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: nerves scrich model education that Katie and Hailey will be
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: there and they've worked with doctor Ferry and all that,
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: and looking at what does it look like.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: In the schools.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: We've got doctor Christy Brandt with the nurse quatre model
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: of the early childhood that has been you know, looking
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: at that zero to five piece. You've got Michelle Miketder
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: with the caregiving she's going to be speaking on that
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: and what does that look like? And I think the
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: structure of this is we wanted to take a look
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: at no matter what population you're working with, that you
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: you can see how the neuro sequential model can be
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: carried out and put into practice. They're understanding the neurobiology
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: of the population you serve with, and so it's broken
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: down into those different I guess categories.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Of you because we all have brains.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: And there are you know, we do have a component
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: speaking about indigenous practices and how they're tied into the
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: neurosquentchial model. We have Elder Casey Eagle Speaker. He's going
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: to be talking, He's going to be doing some experiential
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: So that's another piece that's going to be really valuable
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: here is people are going to get to experience what
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: it's like to be involved, what does the implementation look like,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: And I get to play a little bit when i'm
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: you know, kind of thinking about what this is going
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: to look like in my practice. So we've got occupational
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: therapists who's going to be talking about some of the
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: specific somatosensory activities that are happening. We have teachers who
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: have activities that they provide that are from the you
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: know what we would call the bottom up in the
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: nerus quenchial model somatosensory activities. We've got land, a land
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: based indigenous circle that Elder Casey Eagle Speaker is going
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: to be providing for us as well, and opportunities for
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: with the researchers to talk about what are some of
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: the topics that are missing. What are some of the
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: topics that we need to be really addressing so that
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: we're ensuring that we're continuously improving the practice for children
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: and families.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Emily before, How did you get involved with the neurse
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: sequential model.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, well we started in twenty eleven and at
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: the not for profit agency that I was working for,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: the Hull Services, the people that are we that the
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: organization that is putting on the symposium. So we got
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: to know doctor Perry in twenty eleven. Actually I had
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: met him several years prior to that when I was
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: working in Iowa, and then saw him again when he
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: was speaking in Alberta, and we had a bit of
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: a conversation and we told I told him what we
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: were doing, and he, you know, he really invited us
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: to start thinking about things from that neurosquential lens. It
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: was a huge change for us in our agency. So
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: in an agency with at the time twenty eight programs
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: that we're all doing different evidence based treatments in silos,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: we had a common language. We started to understand brain development,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: We started to understand and really be creative. Our frontline
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: workers were amazingly creative, which you will see at the
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: symposium in thinking about what does this mean in practice?
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: If this is how the brain develops, and if this
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: is the sequence in which we need to practice, what
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: can we provide for all of these kids? And you know,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: as a result of that, we have a huge skateboarding program.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Now we have a huge Signifium farm that started with
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: you know, a few boxes of garden elements and now
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: has become a farm to table yearly event in the school.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: It's absolutely beautiful. In fact, guy, you should come and
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: visit sometime because it's it's definitely worth Well.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Well, you both are very amazing salespeople. I'm like ready
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: to ready to jump in here. Like Michael, how about you?
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: How I mean you just glow when you talk about
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: this the experience in totality, but more specifically the neuro
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: sequential model. How has it shifted what you do?
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: So you you know that I have always worked with horses.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: That is my thing. And you know I had my
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: master's in counseling, and I grew up showing and training horses.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Knew that there was something incredible about them. And then
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: I came into I went to a natural lifemanship training
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: which is based in doctor Perry's work, and I remember
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: it just it connected so many dots for me in
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: understanding how my brain developed and the disorganizations and things
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: that were going on for me, and kind of understanding
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: a little bit of the why behind the behaviors and
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: how to better support the clients I was serving. But
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: then it also took a look and I was able
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: to see the horse brain and how the horse brain
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: was is similar to that of a human's, and so
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: it just helped me really understand that what I experienced
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: as a child and being around horses was it finally
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: gave me words and understanding, gave me the science behind
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: what I experienced. And that's the thing to me. It's
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: it's like, I just want to make sure that people
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: know about this because it has been so It's changed
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: my relationships with myself with other people. It's changed how
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: I do critical work, and there's just there's something about it.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: And Docter wrong was talking about the creative aspect of
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: this with the you know, the understanding that when we
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: understand the sequential engagement and how those systems are at
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: play and how the core regulatory networks work. We can
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: we can allow this to as a clinician, I can
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: show up as myself and and put Michael's uh, you know,
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: touch on that. And I got to be myself as
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: a clinician, and it gave me freedom to be me
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: and understand what was going on with me, but also
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: what was going on with clients, what was going on
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: with my horses. And it's just opened up a whole
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: different world for me personally and professionally because it just
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: connected to me. Not so I get excited about it.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: I'm passionate about it, and it makes a whole lot
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: of sense, and I feel like it's given me a
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: whole different bit of tools in my toolbox as I
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: navigate my life and my career.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Well, well, very exciting, all right, as we kind of
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: wind down here, can I, yes, of course jump in please.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: So the beauty of this too is the scalability, Right,
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: So in other words, Michael can talk about these horses
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: that I will never own, but I can think about
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: it from the perspective of what does this mean in
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: other areas for me? What do I love that has
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: some kind of regulatory capacity that I can share with
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: somebody else? That is then going to be able to
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: support their regulation, support their health, support their brain development
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: and their growth. Right, So we have people that will
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: go and they'll say, you know, I love drumming, well,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: drumming is a big one, right, or I love knitting,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: or I love this, and that becomes something that they
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: relate well to the child with it has that physiological
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: component of cemmense somatosensory regulation, and then they can start
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: building that optimal space of brain development so that these
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: kids can learn some skills. Right, So it doesn't have
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: to be huge and big and in our agency pushed
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: to heal and the Subnivian farms tends to be the brightest,
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: most talked about programs, but we have all these other
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: people that are doing these daily things with kids that
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: are making this huge difference.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: So just to elaborate on that. So for people listening
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: who maybe haven't studied or aren't informed about the neuro
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: sequential model, you know, they might be saying, the sound
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: amazing another model I got to study. But what would
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: you say to them? How might this help them inform
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: them add to what they're doing.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: To me, it's been a way of life, it's been
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: a way of thinking you know, as a parent, I
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: think about it. I thought about it when I was
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: raising my children. It's really it's really a lens in
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: which you see the world. So you know, when my
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: child wasn't going to bed at night, I would be
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: I would be frustrated at times, and then I would think, Okay,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: he's not being oppositional, he just is afraid. And then
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: if I can think of it from that perspective, it
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: just had a different lens. So if I, you know,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: understanding this would be one thing. I think the other
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: component is around knowing that there is always something to offer,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: because everybody goes into the field because they want to
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: be doing well by other people, right, I don't I
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: think there's a single person that goes into the field
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: because well, definitely not for the money, right, do you
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? So, so it really is about
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: making that difference, and anybody who wants to be in
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: relationship is you know, building on the strongest component that
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: we understand about brain development.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Right right? Right? Awesome? All right, Michael, how do people
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: learn more about this? Again? Tell us what it is?
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: And yeah, yeah, so it is. I'm going to start
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: with the date October twenty sixth is the pre conference
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: and it runs then the symposium is the twenty seventh,
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: twenty eighth, twenty ninth October of twenty twenty six so
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: we are yeah, and then people can go to Whole
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: Services and that their website. Emily, if you want to
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: give us.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: That Hull Services does BA is our website for our organization.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: You'll be able to find it there. But I can
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: actually give you more detailed information.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Sorry about okay, Whole Services. How is that spelled?
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: H U l L S E r v I c
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: E S dot c A.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, and we'll have all that Whole Services dot.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: C A and And we are being creative about the
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: way that we're planning this symposium, so we're not saying
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: everybody's going to be there from nine till five. We're
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: really trying to dose things in a way so that
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: people will have an opportunity to be in the mountains
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: during the day because, as we know in October and Canada,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: you know, the sunsets at about five point thirty maybe
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: earlier than that at that time of year, So we
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: really want people to have an opportunity to be outside
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: during the during the daytime hours so we are trying
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: to understand that dosing, as Michael was mentioning earlier, thinking
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: about it from the dosing perspective, giving people an opportunity
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: to learn and then have some physical activity and then
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: learn again.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, and Michael again the what's the name of the symposium?
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: The Pathways to Prevention Symposium in hosting goal services.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, we'll have all that linked up here at
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: the show notes page at the Trauma Therapists podcast dot com. Michael,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: awesome having you back here. You're welcome anytime. And doctor Wang,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: great to meet you. Love to have you back. Appreciate
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: you both, and so, I mean you're both so inspiring.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, this conference is going to be amazing. So
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: thank you for being here, having me all right, take
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: care here