Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Red-Headed Beauty/Bride-to-be, Shoves Little Old Lady to Her Death

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Red-Headed Beauty/Bride-to-be, Shoves Little Old Lady to Her Death · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Imagine this. You are just
0:19
Speaker 1: standing on the corner on the sidewalk when someone comes
0:25
Speaker 1: up to you, shoves you down, You hit your head
0:30
Speaker 1: and die. Out of the blue dead. Now imagine it
0:36
Speaker 1: happens to your mother, your sister, your grandmother. And then
0:44
Speaker 1: to top it all off, cops can't find the purp.
0:49
Speaker 1: Now think about this. What if you find out the
0:54
Speaker 1: perp is a woman that's statistically hyley improbable. But that
1:03
Speaker 1: is what happened to a beloved voice coach, Barbara Gustern.
1:11
Speaker 1: Out of the blue, This lady minding her own business
1:16
Speaker 1: is shoved down on the sidewalk, She hits her head
1:22
Speaker 1: and dies by a complete stranger. What is going on?
1:31
Speaker 1: The man hunt takes over the city. I'm Nancy Grace.
1:35
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
1:37
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM one eleven. First
1:42
Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to our friends at NBC four.
1:45
Speaker 1: A single bouquet of flowers sits on twenty eighth Street tonight,
1:48
Speaker 1: where Barbara Gustern was shoved to the ground last week. Today,
1:52
Speaker 1: family announced that the beloved singer and renowned voice coach
1:56
Speaker 1: did not survive, j I go here on it was
2:00
Speaker 1: the hammer. On Barbara's Facebook page, her grandson posted a
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Speaker 1: photo of him holding her hand in the hospital, writing
2:06
Speaker 1: today at eleven fifteen am, we've lost one of the
2:09
Speaker 1: brightest little flames to ever grace this world. The tributes
2:13
Speaker 1: came pouring in, and she was so wonderful. She was encouraging,
2:17
Speaker 1: she was firm, She was the perfect teacher, that sharp, clever,
2:23
Speaker 1: you know, season first and you know, it's like she
2:28
Speaker 1: was amazing. Stephen Shanahan owns restaurant in Theater Pangaea, where
2:32
Speaker 1: Barbara had recently performed and where she had hoped to
2:35
Speaker 1: premiere a new cabaret show. They sang and they tell stories.
2:38
Speaker 1: It's very heart wine, and they've done several different shows here.
2:44
Speaker 1: You know, when I hear that, it immediately gave me
2:46
Speaker 1: a flashback to being by my father's side when he
2:53
Speaker 1: passed away and everyone else was saying, go ahead, you
2:58
Speaker 1: can go. I was whispering directly in his ear, Daddy,
3:02
Speaker 1: don't go, Please don't go, Please stay here with me.
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Speaker 1: I don't know what Barbara Gusterne could hear or know,
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Speaker 1: as her beloved grandsons did by holding her hand but
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Speaker 1: I know this. She's dead, and I know this. Somebody
3:25
Speaker 1: pushed her, and I know this. There's surveillance video out
3:30
Speaker 1: there that is going to be highly significant. Now take
3:35
Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at Inside Edition. The victim's grandson,
3:39
Speaker 1: AJ Gustern, did what he could to comfort her in
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Speaker 1: her final days. I myself underestimated my grandmother's impacts on
3:47
Speaker 1: the city and on folks. So it's just it's an
3:50
Speaker 1: unspeakable tragedy. He took this photo grasping his grandmother's hand.
3:55
Speaker 1: I was with her when she passed. I was holding
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Speaker 1: her hand. Lest Debbie Harry sang at Gustern's eighty fifth
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Speaker 1: birthday party, this, you know, special night to be here.
4:07
Speaker 1: Gustn also took the mic at her party. My dear, dear,
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Speaker 1: dear students and friends and they make my life happen. Wow.
4:19
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that she was the voice coach for
4:21
Speaker 1: Debbie Harry. Didn't she do? Did she do? Heart of
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Speaker 1: Glass and so many others, and this was her voice coach.
4:29
Speaker 1: As the tributes come pouring in, this reminds me so
4:32
Speaker 1: much of being in court. I could not let myself
4:36
Speaker 1: get sucked into the emotional tornado, the twister that was happening,
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Speaker 1: because it makes you unable to focus on the facts
4:45
Speaker 1: and evidence you need to get justice. So what do
4:48
Speaker 1: we know about what happened to this beloved woman? Take
4:54
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut in seven from Inside Edition.
5:00
Speaker 1: On the night she was killed, Gusterne was on her
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Speaker 1: way to see her students, Sonda Vigel perform at Joe's Pub,
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Speaker 1: a popular cabaret, which I was looking like always to
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Speaker 1: see her, and the audience said they couldn't see her,
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Speaker 1: And I very much hope that they will find this person.
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Speaker 1: To end that way is just hurts it. Catherine Crockett
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Speaker 1: was a student and friend. She said Gusterne gave her
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Speaker 1: and countless others the confidence to go after their dreams.
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Speaker 1: After several months, she said to me, she said, you know,
5:35
Speaker 1: she said, you have a great voice. You can call
5:38
Speaker 1: yourself a singer. You've got a great voice. You can
5:42
Speaker 1: call yourself a singer, a teacher, a voice coach, to
5:46
Speaker 1: some of the biggest stars in the musical sky. And
5:52
Speaker 1: now she's dead. Why who is this woman that pushed
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Speaker 1: this lady down, killing her. I was just thinking about
6:02
Speaker 1: what the one student just said. She was supposed to
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Speaker 1: be there that night, and I kept looking out in
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Speaker 1: the audience for her. It reminds me of the twins
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Speaker 1: when they would be, I don't know, jumping in the
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Speaker 1: water or singing a song or doing karaoke in the playroom,
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Speaker 1: and they always look back at me. Are you looking?
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Speaker 1: Are you looking? Mom? Are you listening? Did you see that?
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Speaker 1: It's almost as if it's not really happening unless that
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Speaker 1: special person is looking, it's seeing you. And that's what
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Speaker 1: Barbara Gusterne was to so many people, that special person.
6:40
Speaker 1: Is she looking? Did you hear me? What do we
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Speaker 1: know about the facts? Take a listen to our friends
6:48
Speaker 1: at NBC four. Barbara was walking half a block away
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Speaker 1: from home when video shows a woman come from behind
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Speaker 1: and push her and then take off. According to family,
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Speaker 1: Barbara suffered traumatic brain damage. We're asking the public's help
7:02
Speaker 1: and solving this disgusting and disgraceful offense committed against the
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Speaker 1: vulnerable elderly female who is doing nothing but walking down
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Speaker 1: the street. While the family makes funeral arrangements, the police
7:14
Speaker 1: are putting up these flyers all over the neighborhood. They're
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Speaker 1: offering a thirty five hundred dollar reward for any information
7:20
Speaker 1: that helps them find the woman in that video who
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Speaker 1: would pick a frill little old lady seemingly with the
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Speaker 1: voice of an angel and push her down, making her
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Speaker 1: hit her head on the sidewalk and die. With me
7:36
Speaker 1: and all star panel to make sense of what we
7:38
Speaker 1: know right now. First of all, high profile lawyer joining
7:41
Speaker 1: me out of La Troy Slayton. You can find him
7:45
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Troy Slayton. We're now psychiatrists joining us
7:49
Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angela Arnold at doctor
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Speaker 1: Angela Arnold MD dot com. Doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner,
7:59
Speaker 1: Tier County. That's Fort Worth Lecturer, University of Texas, Texas,
8:04
Speaker 1: say An m and University Texas Medical Branch. Paul Zeite,
8:09
Speaker 1: former police commander, joining me out of Albuquerque, author of
8:12
Speaker 1: Stop Him From Killing Them on Amazon. But first to
8:17
Speaker 1: our special guests joining us, Rebecca Rosenberg, Fox News Digital
8:21
Speaker 1: and author of At Any Cost. Rebecca, thank you so
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Speaker 1: much for joining us. It's really hard for me to believe,
8:30
Speaker 1: but it seems to show up accurately on video. This
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Speaker 1: little little lady, an eighty seven year old voice coach
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Speaker 1: with the voice of an Angel is standing there on
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Speaker 1: the sidewalk when an unnamed, unknown woman with long red
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Speaker 1: hair comes up to her and just shoves her. And
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Speaker 1: I believe the evidence says she called Barbara a bitch. Yes,
8:58
Speaker 1: that looks like that's what what happened. It seems unclear
9:01
Speaker 1: if an altercation occurred beforehand, but please, some prosecutors have
9:06
Speaker 1: given us no indication, so it was described as a
9:10
Speaker 1: completely unprovoked attack. Wait a minute, Wait a minute, Rebecca Rosenberg. Rebecca,
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Speaker 1: the video shows a young white ish female with red
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Speaker 1: hair walking toward the eighty seven year old woman and
9:33
Speaker 1: pushing her down. Now, am I right or wrong? Did
9:38
Speaker 1: this woman walked across the street to get to Barbara? Yes,
9:44
Speaker 1: you are right? Okay? Whoa so right? There to you? Choice? Layton.
9:52
Speaker 1: If this little old lady had stepped in front of
9:55
Speaker 1: the purp had shoved her or head, I don't know,
9:59
Speaker 1: not bag out of her hands by accident, that's one thing.
10:04
Speaker 1: But then there is under the law what we call
10:08
Speaker 1: the cooling off period. And let me be clear, there
10:12
Speaker 1: is no evidence these two, the red headed woman and Barbara,
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Speaker 1: an eighty seven year old voice coach to the stars,
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Speaker 1: had ever met or had any interaction at all. What
10:26
Speaker 1: we know from the video is you see the voice
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Speaker 1: coach standing there, and the perp walks across the street
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Speaker 1: to her and shoves her down. If there'd been any altercation,
10:37
Speaker 1: like the the low woman running into her or getting
10:40
Speaker 1: in her way, that would not matter under the law
10:45
Speaker 1: because of the cooling off period. She went across the
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Speaker 1: street to shove the old lady to her death. Nancy
10:52
Speaker 1: pushing someone who's on the sidewalk. Pushing someone who's on
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Speaker 1: the street, if they even have the right person. Because
11:00
Speaker 1: the video shows her going near the victim, it does
11:05
Speaker 1: not actually show the shove. We don't see the actual
11:09
Speaker 1: shove on video at this time. But even assuming that
11:13
Speaker 1: she did push her, pushing someone on the sidewalk isn't
11:16
Speaker 1: the same as, you know, pushing someone onto the subway tracks.
11:21
Speaker 1: It's not like someone in front of a tape. You
11:24
Speaker 1: push somebody on a New York street and they fall
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Speaker 1: in the street. You think those cars and calves and
11:30
Speaker 1: shrugs are gonna stop. It's like stepping at directly out
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Speaker 1: of your front door onto seventy five. That's what it's
11:38
Speaker 1: like to live in New York. Trust me, I know
11:42
Speaker 1: to push somebody down on a sidewalk, it's not the
11:45
Speaker 1: same as pushing them in the street. You don't. You
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Speaker 1: can someone say that the woman died from the blow
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Speaker 1: on her head on a playground and if the woman dies,
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Speaker 1: that's homicide. Well, just because you have an eggshell plaintiff
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Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't mean that this person intended for her to die,
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Speaker 1: not created to kill in extreme danger. The law doesn't. Hey,
12:14
Speaker 1: I don't know who you think you're talking to, but
12:16
Speaker 1: I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. You're talking
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Speaker 1: to a trial lawyer, and the law says that the
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Speaker 1: law presumes you intend the consequence of your act. You
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Speaker 1: shove an eighty seven year old woman down on a
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Speaker 1: cement sidewalk, then you can presume she will hit her head,
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Speaker 1: and you can't presume there will be a head injury.
12:40
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happened here. Spring Breakers and parents, beware.
12:51
Speaker 1: The disappearance of honor student Natalie Holloway is a warning.
12:55
Speaker 1: We had to Aruba with Natalie's mom. What can we learn?
12:58
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is shucking new and investigation streaming now only
13:01
Speaker 1: on Fox Nation. Sign up Today Time Stories with Nancy Grace,
13:13
Speaker 1: Ductor Kendall Brown, put aside, your autopsy, tell me what
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Speaker 1: a traumatic injury like this is, and isn't it true
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Speaker 1: it can occur as a result of a shove to
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Speaker 1: a cement sidewalk. So yes, it can occur due to
13:31
Speaker 1: a shove to a cement sidewalk. A lot of people
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Speaker 1: don't understand. If you fall from a standing height and
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Speaker 1: you aren't able to catch yourself, you can actually get
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Speaker 1: a skull fracture, and then the injury that it results
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Speaker 1: inside your head causes bleeding on the brain, bruising of
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Speaker 1: the brain. And the problem with the elderly is as
13:49
Speaker 1: we age, our brain slowly starts to shrink or atrophy,
13:54
Speaker 1: and when this happens, the vessels that come off the
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Speaker 1: brain start to stretch. In any shaking of the head
14:01
Speaker 1: can result in those vescials tearing, which results in bleeding
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Speaker 1: in the space between the brain and the skull called
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Speaker 1: the dural space, and that results in a subdural hemorrhage.
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Speaker 1: And if you get enough blood occupying that space, it
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Speaker 1: shoves your brain kind of down through this hole at
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Speaker 1: the base of the skull called the Foreman magnum, and
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Speaker 1: that pinches your brain stem and kills you, So it
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Speaker 1: can happen to anybody. If you fall from a standing
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Speaker 1: height and hitch your head, you can get skull fractures
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Speaker 1: and bleeding on your brain like that. So it doesn't
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Speaker 1: matter if you're elderly or if you're young. It's being
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Speaker 1: shoved or punched in the face and falling to the
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Speaker 1: ground from a standing height is actually very dangerous. I'm
14:44
Speaker 1: trying to take everything in that you just said, so
14:47
Speaker 1: choicely before we unlash him from the meat baton again.
14:51
Speaker 1: High profile LA law, you're joining us. He knows his
14:54
Speaker 1: way around the courtroom with a sterling reputation. I might add,
14:57
Speaker 1: he's with slighting lawyers there in LA. The law does
15:02
Speaker 1: not require the intent to kill. For instance, if I
15:06
Speaker 1: take a gun and I pointed at Jackie right there
15:10
Speaker 1: and pull the trigger, and then I might, oh, wait,
15:14
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to kill her. I just meant to
15:16
Speaker 1: scare her. B s says the law you intend the
15:22
Speaker 1: natural consequence of your act. You shove an eighty seven
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Speaker 1: year old woman down on the sidewalk, she hits her head,
15:28
Speaker 1: then the law presumes you meant to cause a head
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Speaker 1: injury that resulted in death. You want to you want
15:34
Speaker 1: to fight some more. Yeah, in New York. In New York, Nancy.
15:39
Speaker 1: To be charged with first degree manslaughter, you have to
15:42
Speaker 1: have an intent to cause injury. Intend to cause injury,
15:48
Speaker 1: that's typical injury, that's right, or injury. You know what?
15:54
Speaker 1: What about it? Let's go to Paul Zike, former police commander.
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Speaker 1: My mother will be ninety one in December. If somebody
16:03
Speaker 1: shoves her down on a sidewalk, it will kill her.
16:08
Speaker 1: And I know that, and I have to be careful
16:11
Speaker 1: and watch over her every single day to make sure
16:15
Speaker 1: that doesn't happen. Help me out. You shove an eighty
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Speaker 1: seven year old woman down on us ament sidewalk and
16:22
Speaker 1: then to argue you didn't mean to hurt her. And
16:25
Speaker 1: that's a good point, Nancy, And the and the charge
16:28
Speaker 1: of manslaughter is definitely appropriate in this case. Um, you
16:32
Speaker 1: know it's it's likely to cause I mean, if you
16:34
Speaker 1: go behind somebody and they're not prepared, they're not thinking
16:39
Speaker 1: they're going to be pushed. You do that, even to
16:41
Speaker 1: somebody who's younger, and you forcefully push them from behind, Um,
16:46
Speaker 1: you know they may not have the time to get
16:47
Speaker 1: their hands out in front to stop their head from
16:49
Speaker 1: from bouncing off the concrete, and uh, it just exacerbates
16:54
Speaker 1: that we have someone who's eighty, you know, eight years
16:57
Speaker 1: old and they're they're your reef lexus slow. And I
17:02
Speaker 1: think it shows intent that the person across the street
17:04
Speaker 1: went up to this individual and U, you know, carried
17:07
Speaker 1: out the attack. Yeah, it's not homicide, it's not first
17:10
Speaker 1: to murder, but it's certainly a reckless boy. When did
17:15
Speaker 1: you go to law school? See, I just got to
17:17
Speaker 1: hear your former police commander, did you go to law school?
17:20
Speaker 1: Well no, ma'am. Have you ever heard this area? A
17:24
Speaker 1: felony murder When you commit a crime, a felony such
17:29
Speaker 1: as an attack when the elderly and they die as
17:32
Speaker 1: a result of that attack, then you were charged with
17:35
Speaker 1: felony murder. A death occurs during the commission of a felony.
17:41
Speaker 1: Now I need you to study that Paul's eye, because
17:43
Speaker 1: that's exactly what this is. Yeah. I take a listen
17:46
Speaker 1: to our friends at Inside Edition. She's a wanted woman
17:50
Speaker 1: saw it for what cops are calling a disgraceful crime.
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Speaker 1: She allegedly pushed an elderly woman to her death. The
17:58
Speaker 1: victim was legendary vocal coach Barbara Mayor Gustern, who coached
18:02
Speaker 1: many famous singers, including Blondie's Debbie Harry during her Heart
18:07
Speaker 1: of Glass Hayden. It happened here in Chelsea neighborhood. Police
18:10
Speaker 1: say Barbara Mayor Gustern was violently pushed to the ground
18:14
Speaker 1: by her female assailant. She hit her head. She remained
18:18
Speaker 1: on life support before passing away one week later. The
18:22
Speaker 1: surveillance video of the wanted woman was taken moments after
18:26
Speaker 1: the assault, which copsay was unprovoked. Cop say she actually
18:30
Speaker 1: crossed the street to deliberately push the elderly woman. Let's
18:35
Speaker 1: get our special guests joining us. Rebecca Rosenberg with Fox
18:39
Speaker 1: News Digital. Rebecca, what is the evidence that the purp
18:46
Speaker 1: the redheaded woman actually shoved Barbara. So there is a
18:50
Speaker 1: witness who saw this whole thing and went to help
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Speaker 1: the woman afterwards, brought her into her building. And then
18:57
Speaker 1: there's also video surveillance, and I don't believe it of
19:01
Speaker 1: the actual shove, but of the aftermath, and they got
19:04
Speaker 1: a very clear image of her right afterwards. She was
19:08
Speaker 1: identified by the witness and two people, and the were
19:13
Speaker 1: multiple cameras that placed near there throughout the whole Ali
19:18
Speaker 1: so the eyewitnesses can say that woman on the video
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Speaker 1: is the one that showed the old lady to the ground. Yes, guys,
19:25
Speaker 1: take a listen to Eric cut eleven from NBC four.
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Speaker 1: This attack happened on March tenth, from twenty eighth Street
19:31
Speaker 1: and Chelsea on Gustrn's block. Detectives gave a surveillance from
19:35
Speaker 1: that night. They say that she stayed in the area
19:37
Speaker 1: for about a half an hour and left only after
19:39
Speaker 1: she saw an ambulance arrive. We now know that investigators
19:42
Speaker 1: tracked her movements through the subway when she met up
19:45
Speaker 1: with her fiance, all the way until they got to
19:47
Speaker 1: their apartment in Astoria. I'd like to stress, and it's
19:50
Speaker 1: until proven guilty. You know, if she did do this,
19:54
Speaker 1: then I would like answers. But this woman deserves her
19:56
Speaker 1: day in court. Why police know they aren't sharing that tonight.
20:00
Speaker 1: They are telling us that the suspect cursed at the
20:02
Speaker 1: victim and before she died, the victim told police that
20:04
Speaker 1: the push was as hard as she's ever been hit
20:07
Speaker 1: in her life. I feel very vilner long. I look,
20:10
Speaker 1: I'm older, and I have a keene that just squeams
20:15
Speaker 1: start up with me because I can't defend myself. I
20:18
Speaker 1: will to the death, but you know, it makes you
20:21
Speaker 1: feel like you have a target on your back, you know.
20:25
Speaker 1: To doctor Angela Arnold joining us, we're now a psychiatrists
20:29
Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Doctor Angie, thank you for
20:32
Speaker 1: being with us. Did you hear the elderly neighbor saying,
20:37
Speaker 1: I feel like now I've got a target on my back?
20:39
Speaker 1: I walk with a game it just screams out hit me. Well,
20:43
Speaker 1: I think it's also a reminder that elderly people can
20:46
Speaker 1: be very can be very vulnerable just walking down the street.
20:50
Speaker 1: We're all vulnerable. But as you said, an elderly person
20:55
Speaker 1: knocked down on the street by somebody who who in
20:58
Speaker 1: the world knows what her intentions were. That's what I'm wondering,
21:01
Speaker 1: what were her intentions? But yes, I believe an elderly
21:04
Speaker 1: woman walking down the street with a cane is a
21:07
Speaker 1: vulnerable human being. Well, that's the thing about the law,
21:12
Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold. The law does not require a prosecutor
21:17
Speaker 1: to wander around in the mind of a killer and
21:22
Speaker 1: figure out, wow, what were they thinking? Motive? It's not required.
21:28
Speaker 1: So what we do have to prove as prosecutors is
21:33
Speaker 1: jurisdiction and the Act Time Stories with Nancy Grace and
21:54
Speaker 1: back to Rebecca Rosenberg joining us from Fox News Digital.
21:58
Speaker 1: Would you explain again exactly what we think the video
22:02
Speaker 1: and witnesses say happened to Miss Gustern. Yes, so, I
22:08
Speaker 1: think the strongest bit of evidence here is the eyewitness
22:12
Speaker 1: who actually saw the assault and and went and helped
22:17
Speaker 1: the woman, brought her to the lobby of the building,
22:19
Speaker 1: and Miss Gustern told her, you know, this woman crossed
22:23
Speaker 1: the street, she called me a bit. She shoved me
22:26
Speaker 1: harder than I've ever been shoved in my life before
22:28
Speaker 1: losing consciousness. And then that eyewitness, after they pulled surveillance
22:33
Speaker 1: video that showed her fleeing, identified the woman in that
22:39
Speaker 1: surveillance footage as the woman who shoves that she saw
22:44
Speaker 1: shoved Miss Gustern. Police began to hone in on who
22:49
Speaker 1: they believe brought about the death of this beloved eighty
22:55
Speaker 1: seven year old woman. Can I tell you my mom,
22:59
Speaker 1: who typically was taller than me her whole life, her
23:04
Speaker 1: whole life, Now she's about this tall. My mother, who
23:09
Speaker 1: was such a powerhouse, so dynamic and her younger years,
23:17
Speaker 1: she's this tall. Now and I think of missus Gustrin
23:21
Speaker 1: standing there on the sidewalk, a busy sidewalk, and a
23:28
Speaker 1: young bit woman walks across the street to call her
23:32
Speaker 1: a bitch and shove her down. She hits her head
23:36
Speaker 1: and then dies. As police hone in on who may
23:42
Speaker 1: have done this thing, they come up with a name.
23:47
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut fourteen. Our friends at
23:49
Speaker 1: Inside Edition. Authorities say Pasienza and her fiance, who works
23:54
Speaker 1: for Microsoft, gone into the subway at Penn Station. They
23:57
Speaker 1: transferred at Times Square and then took the train to
24:00
Speaker 1: their apartment in Queen's leaving a digital trail with the
24:03
Speaker 1: fiance's MetroCard. Pazienza allegedly spent the next few hours taking
24:09
Speaker 1: down all her social media and photos, including the website
24:13
Speaker 1: for her June wedding. Police say the day after Gustern died,
24:16
Speaker 1: Pasienza went into hiding at her parents Long Island home.
24:20
Speaker 1: She stayed there for two weeks. Meanwhile, she must have
24:23
Speaker 1: known that police were on her tail. They released video
24:27
Speaker 1: of her at the crime scene and plastered wanted posters
24:30
Speaker 1: across the city. On Monday, two people who knew her
24:33
Speaker 1: well called in the tip detectives went to her parents home.
24:37
Speaker 1: Her father reportedly told them she wasn't there, but wouldn't
24:40
Speaker 1: let them search the house. The next day, she knew
24:44
Speaker 1: it was over, and she turned herself in. So two
24:49
Speaker 1: people that recognize the wanted posters turn her in. That's
24:56
Speaker 1: what we're hearing now. So give me a description and
25:00
Speaker 1: of the woman, Rebecca Rosenberg. What does she look like.
25:03
Speaker 1: She is a young, fit woman in her twenties, quite attractive,
25:08
Speaker 1: with long red hair. That's I mean, she just looked
25:14
Speaker 1: like a regular person, you know. I'm I'm interested in
25:18
Speaker 1: the way she was tracked by, not only the video
25:23
Speaker 1: surveillance on the sidewalk, but then as she stood around
25:28
Speaker 1: and watched the aftermath. Did you hear that, doctor Angela Arnold,
25:32
Speaker 1: this red headed woman stood by and watched the aftermath,
25:37
Speaker 1: I guess across the street, did you hear that? I did, Nancy.
25:42
Speaker 1: I believe. I believe that it shows a gruesome level
25:48
Speaker 1: of evil. Okay, she pushes this woman down, and then
25:52
Speaker 1: she wants to watch and see what happens. And then
25:56
Speaker 1: she this woman, this woman knew everything she was doing,
26:00
Speaker 1: and then she goes home, takes down her social media
26:03
Speaker 1: hides from everybody. There is no way that anyone can
26:07
Speaker 1: ever say that there's any insanity involved in this. Okay,
26:12
Speaker 1: she knew every step of the way what she was doing,
26:15
Speaker 1: So Troyce Layton, high profile LA criminal defense attorney, Troyce Layton,
26:22
Speaker 1: you think it's just a coincidence that she goes home,
26:25
Speaker 1: hides out for two weeks, and takes down all of
26:27
Speaker 1: her social media and hides her cell phone, including taking
26:32
Speaker 1: on the website for her gene wedding. While prosecutors are
26:35
Speaker 1: going to say, Nancy, if you were prosecuting the case,
26:39
Speaker 1: I'm sure you would say that all of those things
26:41
Speaker 1: show consciousness of guilt, and they show her trying to
26:46
Speaker 1: cover up her tracks, and fourth that that shows a
26:51
Speaker 1: guilty mind. But I read her allegedly standing there and
26:56
Speaker 1: watching emergency services take care of the of the elderly victim.
27:02
Speaker 1: I read that differently. Maybe she was there feeling guilty,
27:07
Speaker 1: feeling bad, feeling remorse for what she had done, and
27:10
Speaker 1: making sure that the person was being taken care of,
27:13
Speaker 1: making sure that can we get back to deleting all
27:16
Speaker 1: of our social media, making sure that she was being
27:20
Speaker 1: taken care of by emergency services? Why didn't she was
27:24
Speaker 1: worried about the lady. Why didn't he help her? Help
27:26
Speaker 1: the lady because she's not she's a young woman in
27:30
Speaker 1: her twenty's. You're going to leave that to the medical professionals. Okay,
27:34
Speaker 1: did you just really say that? Did he say that,
27:36
Speaker 1: doctor Angie, he did? Didn't he? Okay? Never mind. I
27:40
Speaker 1: know the answer to that myself. Take a listen now
27:42
Speaker 1: to our cut ten, our friends at NBC four, the
27:46
Speaker 1: police detailing tonight how they say that she tried to
27:48
Speaker 1: evade capture for weeks. They tell us that she quit
27:51
Speaker 1: her job, deleted all of our social media, got rid
27:54
Speaker 1: of her wedding website. She was supposed to get married
27:57
Speaker 1: in June. They also say that she stashed her cell
27:59
Speaker 1: phone at her aunt's house and then hit out at
28:02
Speaker 1: her parents house on Long Island. Midday Tuesday, we finally
28:07
Speaker 1: saw twenty six year old Lauren Pazienza, her hair draped
28:10
Speaker 1: over her face, refusing to talk, just after police charged
28:14
Speaker 1: her with manslaughter, saying that she shoved and killed eighty
28:17
Speaker 1: seven year old Barberagustern. I think she was a grappy person.
28:20
Speaker 1: I mean, who goes around chevy an old woman. Gustern
28:23
Speaker 1: was of a loved Broadway voice coach. She gave lessons
28:26
Speaker 1: to the greats. Her grandson is still trying to process
28:29
Speaker 1: losing her and the arrest. Yeah, there is a sense
28:32
Speaker 1: of closure. Back to Rebecca Rosenberg joining us from Fox
28:37
Speaker 1: News Digital. What do we know about this woman? Twenty
28:42
Speaker 1: six year old Lauren Patienza. So we know she's from
28:46
Speaker 1: a pretty good neighborhood, Port Jefferson, Long Island. She went
28:52
Speaker 1: to the Fashion Institute of Technology where she graduated, and
28:56
Speaker 1: she had a good job. It's unscored back to where
29:00
Speaker 1: she was working right before this, but she had been
29:03
Speaker 1: working at a high end furniture store prior to that
29:06
Speaker 1: as an event planner, and she was engaged to her
29:10
Speaker 1: high school sweetheart who works for Microsoft, and they were
29:14
Speaker 1: supposed to get married in June. You know, we're learning
29:17
Speaker 1: a lot about people about her through people that have
29:22
Speaker 1: lived with her, lived with her in the apartment building,
29:27
Speaker 1: people that went to school with her in the past.
29:30
Speaker 1: Are you familiar with any of that, Rebecca Rosenberg. In fact,
29:34
Speaker 1: one boy that she went to elementary school with says
29:38
Speaker 1: he was so traumatized by this woman. Even when she
29:41
Speaker 1: was in like second grade, she was a bully. Yeah,
29:44
Speaker 1: so she had a reputation of being a bully that
29:47
Speaker 1: kids said that, you know, the teacher had to separate
29:50
Speaker 1: them in the classroom, she would kick him. She would
29:52
Speaker 1: call other kids names. And then at the building where
29:56
Speaker 1: she lived with her fiance, a lot of the tennants
30:01
Speaker 1: there said she was difficult. She was known for complaining
30:05
Speaker 1: a lot, and that there were I spoke with one
30:09
Speaker 1: tenant who said there were a lot of incidents that
30:12
Speaker 1: occurred out front, but she wouldn't go into the details,
30:15
Speaker 1: but she seemed to you know, that this wasn't a
30:18
Speaker 1: total aberration. There was some odd behavior that occurred before
30:24
Speaker 1: this to doctor Angel l Arnolds psychiatrists joining us a bullet,
30:28
Speaker 1: you know what, I still remember, and it bothers me
30:31
Speaker 1: to this day. I wish I knew the little girl's name.
30:34
Speaker 1: In the second grade, I cut in line on a
30:37
Speaker 1: little girl who was wedding to cross the monkey bars.
30:41
Speaker 1: And I don't remember doing it intentionally, but I turned
30:44
Speaker 1: around a sorrow face and she was sad. Dad has
30:48
Speaker 1: stuck with me the rest of my life. I still
30:51
Speaker 1: feel bad about it, about cutting in in front of
30:54
Speaker 1: somebody into second grade, for Pete's sake, I mean, nobody
30:58
Speaker 1: wants to be known as a bullet. No one was
31:00
Speaker 1: to hurt other people's feelings. Well and Nancy, this is why,
31:04
Speaker 1: this is why we look into people's backgrounds and see
31:08
Speaker 1: when did this? When did these kinds of things happen?
31:11
Speaker 1: Did you were you killing animals? Were you starting small fires?
31:17
Speaker 1: All of these things are indicative of what you become
31:19
Speaker 1: when you're an adult, and it doesn't go away. You
31:23
Speaker 1: and I would not walk down the street anywhere if
31:26
Speaker 1: no matter what anybody did to us, we would not
31:28
Speaker 1: shove an old woman down. No way. I'm just looking
31:32
Speaker 1: at this behavior, kicking and tormenting another little boy, and
31:36
Speaker 1: this set grade and to be a girl on top
31:39
Speaker 1: of that, to do that, I'm sorry to be thinking.
31:42
Speaker 1: People say I'm sorry, but they're about to say something
31:45
Speaker 1: really wrong. Okay, this is a little bit more of
31:48
Speaker 1: what we are learning. Take a listen to our cut
31:50
Speaker 1: fifteen crimal line dot COM's Dave mac. Twenty six year
31:55
Speaker 1: old Lauren Pazienza grew up in Long Island, where her dad, Daniel,
31:59
Speaker 1: runs a successful business that was previously ranked the number
32:02
Speaker 1: one cesspool company in Suffolk County. Growing up in this
32:06
Speaker 1: upper middle class area, a former classmate, who spoke to
32:09
Speaker 1: Fox News Digital on the condition of anonymity, claimed that
32:12
Speaker 1: when he moved a few doors down from Posienza in
32:15
Speaker 1: the second grade, she began bullying him. The classmate says
32:19
Speaker 1: the defendant always had a crazy look in her eyes
32:21
Speaker 1: and alleges that she would kick him and call other
32:24
Speaker 1: kids names. He also claimed that a teacher had to
32:27
Speaker 1: move their seats apart in one classroom due to the bullying.
32:31
Speaker 1: At ward Melville High School, a teacher told Fox News
32:33
Speaker 1: Digital that her colleagues with children who went to the
32:36
Speaker 1: school with Posienza recalled her as odd Troice Letton defense attorney,
32:42
Speaker 1: aren't you glad that similar transactions don't go all the
32:45
Speaker 1: way back to the second grade or the jury be
32:47
Speaker 1: hearing about that? Yeah, I'm glad that there's no habits
32:50
Speaker 1: in routine evidence that goes back to second grade Nancy.
32:53
Speaker 1: But even if she was a bully, even if she
32:56
Speaker 1: is an awful person, even if she is a strange
33:00
Speaker 1: look in her eyes, doesn't mean that she's a murderer,
33:05
Speaker 1: does and it doesn't mean that she's guilty of first
33:10
Speaker 1: degree manslaughter. I think that the prophet none of that is,
33:15
Speaker 1: None of that is admissible. And none of that means
33:18
Speaker 1: this is second degree manslaughter. None of that is admissible
33:22
Speaker 1: in court. I agree with you. None of that means
33:25
Speaker 1: that this woman, Lauren Patty Pasenza, is a killer. However,
33:31
Speaker 1: I do agree to some extent with Sigmund Freud. I
33:35
Speaker 1: think by the age of four, you're set. You may
33:38
Speaker 1: vary a little bit in your personality, but that's it.
33:42
Speaker 1: And here at second grade she's bullying people in her class. Interesting.
33:47
Speaker 1: I'd like to hear what she has to say in
33:48
Speaker 1: response to that. Take a listen now to our cut
33:51
Speaker 1: sixteen again from crime online dot Com. After graduating high
33:55
Speaker 1: school in twenty thirteen, Lauren Pasienza attended the Fashion Institute
33:59
Speaker 1: of Technology in Manhattan and worked as an events coordinator
34:02
Speaker 1: for a high end French furniture company. She was seen
34:05
Speaker 1: gallivanting around town attending swanky parties in art gallery openings
34:09
Speaker 1: before she resigned her position last December, but neighbors at
34:13
Speaker 1: the upscale Estoria condo where she lives with her fiancee
34:17
Speaker 1: said she wasn't all smiles at home. Law enforcement sources
34:20
Speaker 1: say that Pasienza was a known nuisance in the Shore
34:23
Speaker 1: Towers and had previously called cops on her neighbors. A
34:27
Speaker 1: woman who lives in the building says there was always
34:29
Speaker 1: an issue with her and someone in the building. It's
34:32
Speaker 1: always like something with that lady. Another man who also
34:35
Speaker 1: lives in the building described her as definitely not the
34:38
Speaker 1: best tenant. Again, I've got to agree, and it pains
34:42
Speaker 1: me to do so. With Troyce Layton, none of that
34:46
Speaker 1: a murder makes, but maybe this does. Take a Listen
34:51
Speaker 1: to our cut thirteen our friends at Inside Edition. We're
34:54
Speaker 1: learning more about the young woman accused of an unspeakable crime,
34:59
Speaker 1: shoving elderly lady to her death for no reason, police say.
35:03
Speaker 1: Six minutes after the unprovoked attack, the suspect, twenty six
35:07
Speaker 1: year old Lauren Pazienza, walked back to the scene and
35:11
Speaker 1: watched an ambulance take away the elderly woman, eighty seven
35:14
Speaker 1: year old Barbara Gusterne, a renowned singing coach. The suspect's
35:19
Speaker 1: high powered lawyer, Arthur Idalla, spoke to reporters after her
35:22
Speaker 1: arrangement and previewed what may bee her defense. Whether it
35:26
Speaker 1: was a push or whether it was a show of
35:28
Speaker 1: or whether it was a kick or whether someone tripped.
35:30
Speaker 1: The evidence is not very solid on that at all.
35:33
Speaker 1: Police say the victim remained conscious long enough to tell
35:36
Speaker 1: them her assailant, who she had never met before, crossed
35:39
Speaker 1: the street, then called her the B word and pushed
35:43
Speaker 1: her as hard as she had ever been hit in
35:45
Speaker 1: her life. Matt Rebecca Rosenberg Box Knees, digital crime reporter, again,
35:52
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Has this woman, Lauren
35:58
Speaker 1: Pasienza maid bond? Did Daddy come pay your bond? Not yet?
36:04
Speaker 1: Her attorney says that they are trying to pull it together,
36:07
Speaker 1: pull the money together. They're actually pulling money with friends
36:10
Speaker 1: and family to be able to post the percentage of
36:13
Speaker 1: the bond they would have to post. But she is
36:16
Speaker 1: still in Rikers. We actually went to try and visit
36:19
Speaker 1: her yesterday. She declined our visit, but we briefly saw her.
36:24
Speaker 1: She came out in her gray jumpsuits and her long
36:28
Speaker 1: hair was disheveled, looked at us, turned around and walked away. Rebecca,
36:33
Speaker 1: what do you think is going to happen? I think
36:35
Speaker 1: she is well. Actually, I learned an interesting little tidbit today,
36:39
Speaker 1: which is that she's been in touch with her fiance
36:41
Speaker 1: from jail and they're still together. So I don't know
36:46
Speaker 1: I hope they're not planning on having a June wedding
36:48
Speaker 1: when she gets bailed out. That would be pretty bad
36:52
Speaker 1: optics for her. Rebecca, what else do you know that
36:56
Speaker 1: they're trying, that the family's pulling together money to try
36:58
Speaker 1: and make bail within the next forty eight hours. He
37:01
Speaker 1: is what her lawyer said to doctor Kendall Crowns joining
37:04
Speaker 1: US Chief Medical exam or Tarrant County. That's fort Worth,
37:09
Speaker 1: the voice coach. The little old lady, eighty seven year
37:12
Speaker 1: old Barbara Gusterne suffer traumatic damage to the left side
37:16
Speaker 1: of her brain. She was intubated. What does all that mean?
37:22
Speaker 1: So when she fell, she probably struck her head, probably
37:26
Speaker 1: received a skull fracture of some sorts, but also internally
37:30
Speaker 1: her brain. When you fall will hit the side of
37:34
Speaker 1: your skull and it will get bruising or contusions and
37:38
Speaker 1: will also tear and cause bleedings. So that's probably the
37:41
Speaker 1: head trauma that they're talking about. And then intubation means
37:45
Speaker 1: is after the brain swelling gets to a certain point,
37:48
Speaker 1: you're having difficulty maintaining your breathing and so they have
37:52
Speaker 1: to put a tube down your mouth to help you breathe.
37:56
Speaker 1: Is there a difference whether you're hit on the left
37:58
Speaker 1: or the right side of the brain. It make a difference,
38:01
Speaker 1: not really, because you know, you have two sides of
38:04
Speaker 1: your brains or two hemisphere of your brain, and each
38:07
Speaker 1: hemisphere kind of does redundant things. So you might get
38:11
Speaker 1: paralysis on one side of your body, do the damage
38:14
Speaker 1: of one side of your brain, but you can still
38:17
Speaker 1: stay alive. Guys, more of what we know regarding the
38:21
Speaker 1: actual crime that led to the death of a beloved
38:24
Speaker 1: voice coach to the stars. Take a listen to our
38:27
Speaker 1: cut eight our friends at NBC. The suspect and the
38:31
Speaker 1: homicide of a beloved Broadway singing coach that shocked the
38:35
Speaker 1: city turns herself in accompanied by her lawyer. Twenty six
38:39
Speaker 1: year old Lauren Posienza, seen here leaving a Manhattan precinct,
38:43
Speaker 1: is facing manslaughter and assault charges for the death of
38:46
Speaker 1: Barbara Gustern. According to the NYPD Pozsienza allegedly approached Gustern
38:53
Speaker 1: from behind and pushed the eighty seven year old, causing
38:57
Speaker 1: her to fall and hit her head. According to her grandson,
39:03
Speaker 1: she suffered traumatic damage to the left side of her brain,
39:06
Speaker 1: and five days later he posted this photo of himself
39:09
Speaker 1: holding his grandmother's hand in the hospital, writing she had
39:13
Speaker 1: passed away due to her injuries. The motive behind the
39:16
Speaker 1: assault is still unknown. Surveillance stills were widely circulated by
39:21
Speaker 1: authorities in the days before she surrendered to police. The
39:24
Speaker 1: Manhattan DA's office alleges they have evidence Pazienza watched the
39:29
Speaker 1: ambulance arrive at the scene and shortly after deleted her
39:32
Speaker 1: social media to Paul Yke joining me, former police commander
39:36
Speaker 1: in Albuquerque, Paul, you and I've seen a lot of killers,
39:42
Speaker 1: a lot of criminals. There are criminals that have had
39:46
Speaker 1: no education, they can't find a job, that have had
39:50
Speaker 1: horrible childhoods where they were abused and mistreated, where their
39:54
Speaker 1: relatives are in jail it's commonplace. Then there are defendants
40:01
Speaker 1: who are privileged, educated, college degrees, loving parents, silverspoon in
40:10
Speaker 1: their mouth under the law. Lady, justice doesn't care what
40:13
Speaker 1: your background is. But I have always inside held those
40:18
Speaker 1: privileged defendants and more contempt because they had it all.
40:24
Speaker 1: They know what they are doing is wrong, and they
40:28
Speaker 1: have the means to be successful, to be good people
40:34
Speaker 1: in this world, to make a living for themselves, not
40:38
Speaker 1: resort to crime, no reason to be mean or hateful,
40:42
Speaker 1: in fact, every reason to be good. Paul, it's extremely sad.
40:47
Speaker 1: I mean, anytime somebody turns to a life of crime
40:50
Speaker 1: or an incident like this, it's horrendous. I mean, I
40:53
Speaker 1: think a couple of things here to look at is
40:55
Speaker 1: this really reminds me of arsonists who come back to
40:58
Speaker 1: the scene and watch the fire burn. You know, she
41:01
Speaker 1: hung around for thirty minutes. One could say, as it
41:04
Speaker 1: was argued, that they wanted to make sure or she
41:06
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure they got medical attention. I think
41:09
Speaker 1: there's another side to that, and that is they want
41:11
Speaker 1: to see the results of their work, what they did,
41:15
Speaker 1: and then they went on a standard flight. I mean,
41:17
Speaker 1: it'd be no different if somebody who's wanted for murder,
41:19
Speaker 1: That's exactly what they would do. Take the cell phone,
41:21
Speaker 1: put in somebody else's house to throw the officers off
41:24
Speaker 1: the trail. They know they can track that cell phone,
41:27
Speaker 1: as well as deleting her social media standard guilty mind
41:31
Speaker 1: type of response flight. And in this case, like you said,
41:35
Speaker 1: well to do family. But I think that turned her
41:38
Speaker 1: into a spoiled, rotten breat in an unfortunate matter from
41:43
Speaker 1: so much revelege if prosecutor, is that police right? This
41:49
Speaker 1: young woman had it all instead, has murdered a beloved
41:56
Speaker 1: eighty seven year old voice coach, a beautiful voice that
42:03
Speaker 1: is now forever silenced, at least in this world. We
42:10
Speaker 1: wait as just as unfalls. Nancy Grace Crumbs Story Signing
42:14
Speaker 1: Up